/tg/ - Traditional Games

pretty much the emperor tried to kill the warp and they didn't take kindly to it

>>22146852
I understand that, but he's nearly dead at this point. Why can't they just settle for waiting until the Golden Throne finally breaks down? It just seems wasteful of them to keep throwing people at the Imperium when doing nothing would be just as effective.

>>22146852
This. And the Empire of Man represents order and stability. Our lord Warmaster sought to free the human souls from these chains, but was martyred.

>>22146903
Kinda makes a boring game dude

>>22146903
Forgot to ask one other thing- what gave the Emperor the idea he could even kill the Warp to begin with? Even if he had succeeded, it would have probably annihilated the universe as a result of the Immaterium's connection to the physical world.

(If it wasn't obvious from all the silly questions, I'm new to the WH40k lore and would like to know more about it. Sadly, there are no game stores anywhere close to where I live so I can't just get answers from the sourcebooks and whatnot.)

>>22146903
The Ruinous Powers, particularly Khorne, thrive on suffering and conflict. Peace is anathema to them.

>>22146903
Chaos isn't about "doing nothing". It's about every tiny little change one can make in the giant wall of stagnant order that is the Empire of Man.

>>22146801
the gods of chaos want more people to join them so they can get stronger

the empire doesn't want everybody to be a mad as fuck rapist

they don't even need to have anything against the imperium. it's their prey as much as an enemy. if they actually succeeded at killing it they would be just as fucked.

>>22146962
not kill the immaterium. just tame it.

>>22146967
Precisely. Blood and fucking souls.

>>22146932

He wanted to bring his own version of stability, all he would have done is change who was sitting on the golden throne.

What would he have done if he had won that was any different?

>>22146946
OP again- I see your point. maybe I'm just putting too much thought into all of this. Is it normal for all the fighting in the 40k setting to seem ultimately pointless from the view of an outside observer or am I just bad at tolerating grimdark?

If anyone could answer my other question in the first post, that would be good too.

>>22146932

And if he'd freed the human souls from these chains, would mankind have been better off?

>>22147030
His hand would have been guided by the freedom of Change. War everlasting would have purified the whole of the Empire.

>>22147095
>better off
The tiny concerns of tiny men are of no concern to the Lords of Change. Toys for war -- pawns in this game.

>>22146932

Ok then, let's take a detour. If Horus had won, if he had taken Terra and defeated the Emperor, what would have happened next? What would his 'new Imperium' look like? Would there have been great wars between it and Guilliman's 'Imperium Secundus', and would the Cabal's vision of the Death of Chaos come true?

>>22147177

So that's a 'no' then?

>>22147200
could he really have defeated him? or if he had, could he actually have done shit with it or just gotten fucked by the chaos gods?

You want a group called 'Chaos' to have some sort of structure to their hate and destruction?

>>22147116
OP again. If you ask me, it sounds like the Imperium would have just torn itself apart faster if Horus had won. If the Chaos Gods spend most of their time now screwing each other over, how would being in control of the Imperium make them start working together?

The way I see it is that as great and mighty as the Emprah was, he was too egotistical to consider the possibility that he was setting the Imperium up to fall. He might have been a great general and warlord, but he would have made an awful peacetime ruler (not to mention his truly breathtaking incompetence in dealing with his "children". Was it really that hard to just give Angron some help in the form of his Legion against his slavelords or tell the Primarchs about his Webway project?) At least the Chaos Gods have the excuse of simply being pure emotion.

>>22147200
I believe the extinction of mankind would have been the ultimate endpoint.

>>22147070
War is always pointless.

>>22147311
I meant even more so than usual. Seriously, the entire Horus Heresy could have been averted if the Emperot tock the simple precautions of removing the stick up his ass and telling the Primarchs about his plans instead od keeping secrets for shits and giggles.

>>22147278
I like where you're going. There's always a spot in the Blood Legions for you.

>>22147200
The Chaos gods would probably kill Horus, and settle back into chronic vendetta. The Material universe would become the battleground of Chaos' war against itself, and this would probably kill everyone.

>>22147278
I agree! The Emperor was truly false!!

Also
>Only Worshiping one of the great Powers

Brother, you waste so much potential!!

>>22147278
Second part was meant for

>>22147304

>>22147311
The Warmaster represented the purity of war for war's sake. Trying to involve petty human machinations is what fouls it up.

>>22147338
Emps didn't even tell his sons bout daemons and shit. Some of them were smart enough to figure it out and some had an inkling but Emps really screwed the pooch.

>>22147381
BLOOD AND SOULS!

>>22147349
I'm not implying that siding with Chaos is a good idea. They're batshit insane and doomed to self-destruct as well. Unless you also share the opinion that it would be best for the galaxy (both the Materium and Immaterium) to be annhilated completely so it can start over from the beginning, I doubt that I would fit into any Blood Legion (or anywhere else in 40k, at that matter).


I am wondering why nobody at all has ever tried to find out if FTL travel is possible without using the Warp at all, though. Is there some reason why nobody has tried to make alternative FTL methods?

>>22147419
Fallible like every human. Unable to accept that they will eventually rot.

>>22147446
Yes Warmaster...You were truly our Greatest leader...Your man Abbadon...he kind of drops the ball.

>>22146801
>>22146903
Guess what the forces of Chaos are made up of. Aside from the daemons of course.

Traitors, heretics, xenos and rebels who hate the Imperium. Even if the big 4 were willing to wait, their worshipers are not.

The stars will weep as the planets of the false-emperor burn.

>>22147454
Also, I'm still looking for an answer about what went on with Angron's ascension.

>>22147492
I'm sorry Lorgar, have you done anything but cry about daddy in the last 10,000 years?

>>22147513
Only build the Foundation of the Imperial Cult's doctrine that is slowly destroying the Imperium.

lol, The seeds of my work grow strong even now

>>22147513

Well, Better than what's happened to Morty. Some guy beat him up and carved his name into his heart.
He needs counceling.

>>22147562
I keep telling him he should file in civil court, but Morty just keeps crying about wanting it to be over and forgotten.

>>22147454
>I am wondering why nobody at all has ever tried to find out if FTL travel is possible without using the Warp at all, though. Is there some reason why nobody has tried to make alternative FTL methods?
Good question. I always worked under the theory that it had to do with the general degradation of science to near-magic, such as the runes of propulsion and such. So many things have been forgotten that it's all just passed along by rote now.

OP again. After looking through the lore again, I can now conclude that the only way to permanently resolve the war between Chaos and the Imperium is to go back in time and exterminate the Old Ones before the War in Heaven occurs, What are the chances of this being successful?

Also, which parts of the lore are the least grimdark? Too much grimdark makes me nauseous, but I still feel compelled to learn more about the 40k setting.

>>22147598

"Hi, My name's Mortarion."

"Hi Mortarion."

"And I was brutalised by some Gay Knight named Draigo."

>>22147562

Perturabo's fate is still the worst of the Primarchs.

>>22146801
Angron himself still fought Guilliman, standing above the kneeling Ultramarine. Had he even noticed the storm of blood streaming from the sky in a red torrent? Sparks sprayed from Roboute’s raised gauntlets as he struggled to ward off blow after blow. He was beaten. He was down. Wounds painted him, a palette of proud defeat. Even now, his warriors were fighting to retrieve him. With the scarring across his armour and the sense of pain bleeding from his mind, Lorgar reckoned his brother would be lucky to ever walk again.
Angron looked little better. Already an icon of mutilated majesty, huge rents and gashes marked his flesh from the knuckles of Guilliman’s gauntlets.
Now. It has to be now.
Lorgar focused his concentration on the triumphant form of his mutilated brother, calling for the Neverborn to answer in kind. He locked Angron’s muscles, setting fire to the synapses in his brain. He stole the chance at a killing blow, fuelling the World Eater’s rage even higher. The screaming began: a melody of murdered worlds, finally singing in the material realm.
History repeated itself. Another primarch crawled away from Angron’s wrath – another brother who’d come into an inheritance without being cursed, without being torn from his roots and left to mourn what might have been. There was no pleasure in beating them. The rage never faded. It only deepened, turned rancid by bitterness. The hoped-for serenity of battle fled from him, deserting him with the hollow promises of a false lover.
Hatred offered no victory. Nothing did.
Even those he defied and destroyed… even they pitied him.
Forgive me. I tried to tell you. All of us dance to the warp’s tune. Even you, Angron.

>>22147028
That is easily the most metal picture of Pac-Man I have ever seen.

>>22147628
This time, as Guilliman – rather than Russ – dragged himself clear, the World Eater staggered back himself, clawing at the ruin of his face and chest. He was tearing at his own armour and flesh, ripping it away in fistfuls, screaming a sound that no living thing should be able to make.
Flesh and bone, blood and soul, his body vibrated with the warp’s tidal rhythm. It rang through every atom – every subatomic particle – of his divinely-wrought form. Billions and billions of screaming souls.
And with their cries came the pain.
The first spasms wracked their way through Angron’s sinews, turning his blood to quicksilver, then to lava and at last to holy fire. His cries of thwarted rage were tainted by an agony beyond comprehension. His body started tearing itself apart, growing, rising. Perfecting, after a lifetime of broken torture.
Lorgar stared at his brother’s agony with guilty joy.
You were always the conduit, No one else hates the way you do, with the same depthless strength. No one else feels such pain, violated by life’s treacheries. It had to be you, in the deepest moment of rage and sorrow. There could be no other conduit.
Guilliman was escaping into his sons’ defiant phalanxes, retreating in enviable unity as they waded down the flooded roads. Lorgar saw the expression of disgusted awe on his brother’s face as the wounded Ultramarine stared at Angron atop the mound of dead sons from all three bloodlines. The XIII Legion still fired even in retreat – their shells crashed against Angron’s bared muscle-meat, staining his skinless flesh black, bursting gouts of blood into the air.

>>22147600
But what about all the xenos who presumably have their own science? There's a lot of xenos the Imperium has never encountered, and one of them is bound to stumble over something like Star Trek-style hyperspace eventually.

>>22147634
A drumbeat. The gunfire was just a drumbeat, adding to the great song’s crescendo. Bolts thudded into him, blasting viscera free in sloppy arcs. They did nothing at all. Angron had transcended corporeal pain, in the grip of heavenly torment.
Lightning struck him. Even Lorgar hadn’t expected that.
Thunder pealed, forming another part of the great song, and more bolts of lightning snapped down from the bleeding sky, igniting the World Eaters primarch, the corpses at his boots and the very earth around him. The fire burned red, formed of flickering, writhing ghosts. The lives of those lost, in exchange for his.
The blood rain fell harder, hotter now – hot enough to fog and bleach the paint from the cracked ceramite of countless warring warriors. Lorgar never ceased his chanting, naming the Names, calling upon them to obey as they’d promised. He’d given them oceans of blood and worlds aflame. Now they owed him. He’d sold trillions of lives in exchange for one. Let it never be said that Lorgar Aurelian wasn’t a loyal brother.

>>22147620
Poor iron Warriors...they never get any love nowadays...or ever since Dorn suck the Emperor's cock all day.

>>22147642
The inferno that had been Angron of the World Eaters raged unchecked. Doubt’s first kiss touched Lorgar in that moment; he couldn’t make out anything through the sanguine blaze. Was Angron even within that conflagration? Had the gods annihilated him, in reparation for some flaw in the great song? He reached out with his psychic sense, questing towards the bale-flame. All he could hear was the wailing of the unfairly slain – their rage, their agony. This was the song he’d composed from fire and genocide, playing now for his brother’s salvation.

>>22147620
>Rip Dorn's walls down
>Kick his faggot ass in the Iron Cage
>Get personal Daemon World fortress of doom
>This one time, spread a techno plague on a forgeworld for shits and giggles
>Everything is killed by their own machines in a week
Man sounds horrible.

>>22147628
>>22147634
Ok, so Angron never wanted to become a Daemon Prince is what this is saying, right? Just making sure I got all this down.

>>22147649

It's even worse for Pert, atleast his legion gets a shout-out now and then from the books. Meanwhile, he goes on to drop from post-heresy fluff completely.

>>22147492
I consider the 13th Crusade to be successful.

>>22147680
That's because it isn't done yet.

>>22147659
Well it is complicated. He doesnt seem to regret it as the following shows.

An hour later, armed and armoured, Khârn stood ready once more.
‘You don’t have to do this.’
Khârn looked at Kargos by the console. ‘Yes, I do. I’ve done it before. Open up.’
The Apothecary worked the key controls and the doors swung silently outwards. Beyond them, sticky with drying blood, a set of bone steps went down into the shadows. Another roar, wordless and deep-throated, came echoing up from the gloom.
Khârn walked forwards and let the darkness fold over him as Kargos swung the doors closed behind him. The first thing he heard was the dead whispering in the dark. The second thing was the beast’s breathing. Even his genhanced eyes couldn’t pierce the absolute lack of light. He walked slowly, drawing no weapon despite the temptation, listening to a daemon breathing in the black.
‘Khârn,’ said something unseen, from everywhere and nowhere. Whatever it was, it smelled of fresh graves and funeral pyres, and its teeth were wet.
‘Lord?’

>>22147691
Slow thunder answered. No, a laugh. A chuckle. ‘I am no one’s lord. I never was. Even less so now.’
Khârn swallowed, still edging through the dark. He heard the thing that had once been his gene-sire licking its maw.
‘I want something from you, Khârn.’
‘Name it.’
‘Hnnh. Take your axe. Take your brothers. Kill three hundred souls on the thrall decks.’
Khârn stared in the direction where he was sure the monster was at rest. ‘Why, sire? To what purpose?’
‘Three hundred of them. Take their skulls.’
Khârn heard the thing smile, heard the wet peeling of its fanged maw curling into a grin. Something huge, winged, and wreathed in the smoke of dead souls tried to move closer to him, and strained against the rune-etched chains that bound it. He saw its eyes burning in the dark, orbs of ember-fire, the colour of boiling blood.
‘Take their skulls, Khârn. Build me a throne.’

>>22147680
We held the void foul abomination. Keep your feet on Cadia, we will purge you from the heavens!

>>22147697
Would anyone like to read about the Night of the Wolf where Angron Beats Leman Russ up? They have like a full on brawl and the legions echo their masters. It is a full blown battle.

>>22147637
All xenomorphs are inimical to human life. Even if such tech were captured, I do not think it would be understood -- not just because it is alien, but possibly also because the AM has been operating off manuals for thousands of years and not really understanding the tech.

>>22147454
Because Newcrons killed the Void Dragon.
He was all set and ready to share the principles of the inertialess drive with his favored people, but you blew him up. You bastards, you blew them all up.

>>22147691
>>22147697
Of course, there's also the question of whether or not anything of Angron's mind is even in there anymore. I remember seeing from a few quotes on the Lexicanum that Magnus seemed to preserve a part of his humanity in a recognizable form, but it doesn't seem to be the case here.

>>22147702
Comon man Abaddon has it the hardest of all. He has to lead a horde of half-mad psychopaths slavering for favours from even madder gods, his allies are untrustworthy, he is surrounded by half-competent sorcerors (Ygethmor) and he always seems to be fighting entire segmentum worth of forces constantly reinforced. You ahve to give it to him that he still dares to attack the imperium after all theses years almost ever thousand years.

>>22147682
Even gaining the ground to bury our dead is a victory and further wound to the dead king.

>>22147697


We had him surrounded. The Lord of the Twelfth Legion, heart of the pack among his colossal praetorian-creatures, was contained within a ring of silver ceramite.
Angron. To think such a creature had ever borne a human name. Was this truly one of the Emperor’s own sons, infected by unholiness at the Imperium’s dawn? The passing of enough time will make all things myth. No one, even among our order, knew which ancient secrets were once fact, and which were misguided fiction.
It rivalled a Warhound-class walker in size, standing even above the beast-lords that served as its bodyguards. Chains and cables dreadlocked from its saurian skull, and from the clawed tips of its dripping wings to the ridged, stinking red iron that served as its skin, it had long since surrendered any claims to humanity. When it roared, which it did the moment its army began to crumble and tumble about its booted feet, it made the strained, throaty whine of an enraged mammoth. The sound carried across the sky, curdling the clouds above.

>>22147737
He was never really that human, he hated everything about himself, he considered himself dead the moment he was teleported by the Emps.

>>22147749
Ah yes Emperor's Gift, a fine read.

>>22147715
What I meant to ask is if the xenos even have non-Warp FTL to begin with. From what I've seen, there doesn't seem to be anything explicitly preventing it from occurring, but it's obviously absent despite its obvious benefits (read: no Daemon attacks in mid-transit, no Warp Storms, no reliance on Navigators or Astronomican, etc.).

>>22147749

The blade rose and fell again.
+HYPERION+ came Galeo’s voice.
I caught the blade.
Not with my hands. With my mind. I locked that grievous, immense sword immobile with a surge of desperate focus, keeping it trembling in the air above us. Waves of psychic force turned the air into a heat mirage around my armour.
+Do… something…+ I managed to send.
Enceladus and Galeo threw their swords as spears. Both sank deep into the beast’s wrist, and both immediately caught flame, igniting the creature’s unholy blood. It still didn’t release its hold on the blade.
Angron roared. Without a force barrier, the sound blasted across us with dreadful physicality, tearing parchments and tabards from our armour and sliding us all back in the sloshing, blood-drowned mud.
I gave everything I had left. Absolutely everything. With my hands raised, I slowly curled them into fists, pouring body and soul into my sixth sense clutching that blade. They wouldn’t close completely. They just wouldn’t.
I was killing myself with this. The focused depletion of life force, channelled into psychic energy. But I was already dead, so what did it matter?
In the air above us, the black blade cracked.
And everyone froze.
The sound was as stark and alien as a laugh in the middle of a funeral march. Even the Lord of the Twelfth Legion hesitated, huffing a stinking breath in disbelief.
I closed my hands, made them fists.
Above me, the blade shattered. Cursed black bronze blasted across the field of battle, raining on the just and unjust alike. Several shards tore gashes across the daemon’s skin, or lodged into his flesh. There came a roar, the likes of which defied reality. It had no place outside a nightmare.

>>22147746
Well put. It takes the strength of the Void to bring the forces of Change to bear. Slowly all falls to Change. Every time a psyker opens his mind, every inch of ground gained, every bit of freedom tasted propels us farther toward our goal.

>>22147774
Ahh, understood. I'm thinking that the lack of mention is taken to mean it doesn't exist in canon. One could, of course, add it in... Otherwise, the Warp is the Way.

>>22147748
Perhaps I have judged him too harshly. Every Dead loyalist weakens the false corpse god.

>>22147779

Be sure to post the bit where the GK goes "COME AT ME, BRO" to Angron as Hyperion blacks out.

>>22147748
I would continue to argue this point dishonorable traitor, but it seems a service stud has vanished from my head and a multitude of campaign honors along with. I must speak with Lord Arcanist Zekariah at once, for I fear we have become temporally displaced.

Hark, the knowledge of what a 'Van Groethe's Rapidity' is shrinks from my brain, time is short. I pray we are merely at the mercy of the capricious warp, for the other explanation is truly too terrifying to countenance.

I fear in my treating with the Blood Ravens and their Chrono-Librarians I have unleashed a horror beyond imagining upon the galaxy.

>>22146801
The Emperor called upon the aid of the chaos gods to create the Primarchs, with the deal that they be worshiped alongside him. He decided to instead cover up the existence of the chaos gods, thus reneging on their pact, and so the chaos powers have been pissed at the Emperor ever since.

>>22147827
I never liked ambiguity, but I suppose that's the case. Quite frankly I'm amazed that the 40k galaxy even survived long enough to reach its current state- I would have expected it to have been overwhelmed by Chaos (and then get blown up as collateral damage of their constant infighting, kiling Chaos in the process) and ultimately ended up lifeless long before M10, let alone late M41 to early M42.

>>22147839

The last thing I remember of the battle was Captain Taremar’s voice, cutting right to my core.

+Angron,+ he called. +Justice comes. Turn, beast, and face me.+

>>22147851
>Van Grothe's Rapidity
He who would tempt Hell's Slingshot tastes of his own mortality.

>>22147851
Dealing with the Bloody Magpies can do that to you.

>>22147867
Valid point. One can look, however, at Chaos as the unending descent of ordered to unordered -- it is eternal. Defeat the Lords of the Void and more will take their places.

>>22147967
That does go both ways though. A totally unordered system will eventually become uniform and therefore stop being chaotic.So Chaos is doomed to fall, just like the Imperium (and Abaddon certainly isn't helping them).

>>22148008
Speak not ill of the Despoiler, lest you feel the Claw and know the ephemeral nature of your flesh.

>>22148008
It's cyclical. Chaos will rise and fall and rise again only to fall.

All you can hope to do is change the time between peaks.

>>22148067
This is the nature of things. We all dance to the tune of the Void, man and warpspawn alike.

Wow its like /tg/ has never read the outcast dead.

>>22148121
>Implying the Horus Heresy series isn't an abomination

>>22148131

Implying you aren't a fag.

>>22148131
Some books in the series are better than others. As I have yet to read any of them, I'll let you decide which ones are good and which ones are bad.

>>22148166
Implying he isn't right.
The Horus Heresy was far better when we only vaguely knew what happened.

>>22148171

Best Ones, from one who has read them all:

A Thousand Sons
The First Heretic
Mechanicum
Know No Fear
Horus Rising

>>22148131
I liked Legion, the first one I think, the rest have made me sad.

Also, everyone seems to forget the 'nids when they talk about Horus and what ifs. The cabal, or even Tzeentch couldn't see those bastards, just a black fucking hole.

Same with 'Crons; fuckin' bastards.

>>22148299
I love the tyranids and their ilk. Just like how the zoats or skaven didn't make it to space kinda confounds me.

>>22148330
Shit just flipped through my WH40K:RT 1E and see that zoats are a slave race of the tyranids. Derp.

>>22148299
Legion would be better if we got a followup book.

Preferably a followup where they slaughter the cabal and side with Horus, because if humanity is doomed either way they might as well side with their best bro and not with the side that the Girlyman chose.

>>22148330
Actually, Zoats did for a small time; they even have their own fleet in that fleet game.

They've been written off as escaping from the 'nids though; there's even an excerpt or two where the magus biologist is all like "Oops, maybe they were trying to say something between all the gunshots."

>>22148378
>Legion would be better if it was about the Alpha Legion

Fix'd. I love Dabnett, but the man can NOT write Marines worth a shit.

>>22148330
Oh, but the Skaven have.

>>22148384
This gentlemen, is a valid point

pic related, it's Dan's imagination and him on the topic of MAHRAHINS!

>>22148203
Add the Betrayer to that. I really liked it. Also the first three were pretty good, along with Fulgrim. Loved the whole fall arc.

>>22148390
I'm so far behind. We mostly just play the original Rogue Trader here because you can basically use any minis you want. Combined with Necromunda it makes for a real blast.

>>22148378
I've noticed that the cabal just disappear from the setting entirely after that book. Did the writers just forget about them?

>ingIfpu magic
Captcha might be right- maybe it was magic.

>>22148384

It's the only book so far covering the Imperial Army.

I want to see a book from the Imperial Army's Perspective, now that the Heresy is underway. What must it be like for ordinary Humans to now have to face the might of the Astartes, their former guardians?

>>22148437
The Cabal smacks too much of deus ex machina to me. Dunno, just a gut feeling.

>>22148418
He did fine in the first Eisenhorn book.

>Eisenhorn is internally complaining about the Deathwatch Marine can't hit shit in the wierd Saruthi geometries.
>Chaos Marine charges them
>Deathwatch Marine tosses bolter aside, tackles the Chaos Marine into a vat of acid
>Eisenhorn's like well that's that
>Deathwatch Marine finishes punching Chaos Marine to death, gets out picks bolter back up
>Eisenhorn's like Well, glad I've been internal monologuing here.

>>22148384
Fuck off, I am alpharius? Marines fighitng in local gear with their weapons, shadows within shadows, they alreadt breached Mon Lo. They fight exacty like the Alpha Legion is meant to fight. All that recruitment, manipulation of agents and foresight is jsut what I would expect.

Also, Horus Rising was brilliant, so was Know No Fear. Legion was one of his better works, better than Brothers of Snake atleast.

You know who cant write? Fucking Ben Counter, he is absolute shit.

>>22148437
They're in Deliverance Lost and mentioned in Know No Fear and Betrayer.

>>22148437
They pissed off the wrong Legion.

Now they are all Alpharius.

>>22148485
Can you give specifics there? Because whatever they were doing to defeat Chaos clearly didn't work. I know that Ollianus Pius and John Grammaticus apparently know each other, but not much else.

>>22148437
They make an appearence in Betrayer, not an actual appearence but they are mentioned as being there...its weird.

Infiltrate. He said infiltrate.
He wasn’t on their side.
‘I’m not on anyone’s side,’ he said, though she hadn’t spoken a word. ‘I know,’ he added. ‘I can read your mind.’
She turned to run, but Damon reached for her wrist, holding it tight. ‘You died and came back again,’ he said to her gently. ‘We have that in common. The Cabal have taken an interest in you, and for humans that’s almost always a bad thing. But you’re like us now. The Seventeenth Legion made you into one of us. I can’t say whether they meant to. I wouldn’t even want to guess.’
‘One of what? What are you talking about?’
‘The undying. The Perpetuals.’ Damon Prytanis didn’t smile that time – he outright grinned. ‘Come with me, Cyrene.’

>>22148450

Agreed. The Imperial Army are very much overlooked in the Heresy Series.

>>22148506
OK, that makes absolutely no sense. Could someone explain to me what on Terra the Cabal are doing here? IMO, I get the feeling that they'll get retconned pretty fast at this rate.

>>22148508
I wouldnt mind one set in heresy either, but it is stated in the first books when the heresy starts, it is not their fight, this was purely Astartes vs. Astartes battle.

>>22147613
>Also, which parts of the lore are the least grimdark? Too much grimdark makes me nauseous, but I still feel compelled to learn more about the 40k setting.
Forgot to answer this. Get the original Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader first edition and you will be most pleased. Lots of information not found in later publications.

>>22148535
They are trying to gather something called the 'Perpetuals' like John, Damon, Oll Pious and apparently Cyrene together, I think basically because they had all died and been reborn, thus immune to corruption, I think they are working off the concept of the Sensei, I am sure it is something to do with that.

>>22148540

Well, the story has moved on to well after Isstvan III and V, so the Imperial Army should be at the forefront of slowing the Warmaster's drive to Terra. (Read: Dying by the bucketload, just like their Guard Descendants.)

>>22148472
>>22148481

Guys, I'm not saying that Dabnett can't write. Shit, I own all of Ravenor and Eisenhorn. What I'm saying is that Dabnett can't write MARINES. He writes them as Special Forces, or upjumped dog soldiers. He consistently fails to capture any of their other-ness, their iconic nature. All too often, his battlegrounds become Spess Vietnam, and SM as stand-ins for Force Recon, Delta, or SOG.

>>22147879
How about the actual duel? It wasn't in the Emperor's Gift - but it was described in earlier books/sources.

>>22148535
I doubt it.
Based on things ADB and the other authors have said, the Heresy writers regularly have group meetings where they compare notes and coordinate their efforts. The authors aren't writing in a vacuum. It's unlikely that Abnett came up with the Cabal without having a long-term plan for them in the cards

>>22148570
Lol, yea, I think in one of the short story anthologies they do state that multiple Imperial Army forces were being mustered to halt his advance...those poor sods. i wonder how Tallarn will play out.

>>22148563
ding ding ding ding

Still fucking retarded though.

The Empire is Scooby Doo and the gang, Chaos is the bad guy in a terrible custome trying to do earn a little money

>>22148581
Have you read Horus Rising? Have you read Know no Fear? Prospero Burns? They fought like Legions who have their own way of fighting, I dont even know where you are getting all the criticism from. I mean in 40K They are meant to be Special Forces, there arent many of them as in the Great Crusade and the Imperium cannot pump them out like they used to. It is way more fucked up in teh future. They are often stated to be the IMperiums Shock Troopers

>>22148598
Ok, what would you do? Seriously, its all made up anyway...why does it matter?

>>22148594

There's a Limited Edition Novella about Tallarn coming out next year, written by John French.

I really like the Imperial Army, how these men and woman no different from you or me stand and bravely face the Astartes to defend hearth and home.

>>22148660
>I really like the Imperial Army, how these men and woman no different from you or me stand and bravely face the Astartes to defend hearth and home.
Just another day for the Catachan Jungle Fighters.

>>22148660
I always found it strange that none of the Army set up elaborate traps and defensive works against the Astartes, they always go toe to toe, I mean a lots of melta mines, automated bolter turret traps, delibrate enfilades and obstacles like booby trapped tank traps...there is only so much punishment Power Armour can take, a pair of tank shells can cause it to malfunction, can you imagine having to advance through a mine field that only activates when a certain number of troops are within a certian area?

>>22148583

OP again. Probably my last post before I go to sleep. Thanks for the discussion- it's given me a lot of stuff to think about.

The fact that the Cabal has never been mentioned in the TT games or anywhere outside of the Horus Heresy books doesn't really inspire confidence in the Cabal's ability to...do whatever it is that they're trying to do.

>>22148560
Also the Fluff Bible, being full of massive amounts of shit you don't need to know.

>tfw you remember when the fluff bible was near impossible to obtain, a holy tome coveted like an stc.
I printed the fucking thing out for fuck's sake. I have a hard copy of the fluff bible.

>>22148777
Oh lawds, I'd forgotten about the Fluff Bible. Thing's fucking grail tier, innit?

>>22148741
Yes, they call it the Iron Cage. And there the Fists died.

>i wonder how Tallarn will play out.
This, I want to see the great battles of the heresy era. I want to read about Tallarn, and Tesstra Prime, and see Alpharius and Guilliman debate or Dorn and Perturabo argue about the palace, see Konrad's fight with Dorn, and Caliban literally break apart as Lion and Luther duel.

Hell where is my Russ and Lion fight and/or buddy cop fic

>>22148798
235 pages. In my closet. For like 10 years.

It is an amazing, if slightly dated, document.

>>22148851
Yeah, just runs up through second edition, but fuck is it thorough! There's a copy on scribd for those who seek.

>>22148831
Army motherfuker, not the IW

>>22148892
>Implying the Iron Warriors do grunt work
It's like you never read Storm of Iron

The IA laid the mines. Then they were sacrificed in the name of great retribution.

>>22148948
They werent IA then were they? They were Heretics...also there is no mention of a IA unit attached to the IW forces in any of the fluff/

>>22148954

Fron Angel Exterminatus

Blast-shielded shutters led down to the hardened redoubts that housed the Selucid Thorakite regiments. Natural-born Olympian soldiers who had joined with the Iron Warriors in the genocide of their homeworld, the Thorakitai were grim-faced men and women in faded khaki, scaled breastplates and helms fashioned in the image of a Mark IV suit. Their equipment was scoured a dull ochre by the omnipresent dust, but the firing mechanisms were protected in cloth wrappings, the focus rings in scratch-resistant foil.

>>22149118
Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Signing out for the evening. This has been a good thread and I leave you with these words:

"And what are the achievements of your fragile Imperium? It is a corpse rotting slowly from within while maggots writhe in its belly. It was built with the toil of heroes and giants, and now it is inhabited by frightened weaklings to whom the glories of those times are half-forgotten legends. I have forgotten nothing and my wisdom has expanded far beyond mere mortal frailties."

>>22149214
And let it not be forgotten.

Deatht to the False Emperor!

>>22149214

A fine quote.

In fact, I have compiled a list of all the Indentured Legion Auxilia forces here.

Dark Angels – Calibanian Jaegers

Iron Warriors – Selucid Thorakites

Iron Hands – Chainveil

Ultramarines – Ultramar Auxilia

Thousand Sons – Prosperine Spireguard

>>22149293
Chainveil are Tyjunate in origin, Tyjunate Compulsaries and all them are local forces of the Nahan and INstar system.

>>22149451

>>22149451

They are still indentured to the Legion.

As for homeworld forces, do any of the other legions have them?

I'd love some Calibanian Jaegers, they sound badass.

>>22148644
>>Implying there isn't such a thing as good fiction

Grats faggot, you win.

>>22148461

The whole series is a just-so story. We know the outcome, it's just the BL seeing how long marine fanboys will keep buying the spooge they circlejerk onto dead trees.

OP back again. Mind if I archive this? There's a lot of interesting stuff here that might be worth keeping.

>>22148582
Brother Captain Aurellian blinked rapidly,
feeling the knot of tension in his gut
relax as his body adjusted after the mass
teleportation of his Grey Knights. He
stood on the lip of a snaking trench,
filled with weeping and terrified
Guardsmen. Ahead, he could see the
smoking remains of a smashed daemon
engine and the explosion wreathed
battlefield. And striding across the cratered
wasteland came Angron, Daemon Primarch
of the World Eaters, the Fallen One. A
dozen of the Blood God’s most favoured
daemons surrounded Angron, and Aurellian
gripped his Nemesis weapon tightly,
knowing that this battle would decide the
fate of the world. With a pulse of
thought he ordered his warriors to
advance as Angron raised his sword in
mock salute.
Aurellian marched forwards, the Grey
Knights following in disciplined groups,
their Nemesis weapons held before them.
Waves of bloodlust broke against them,
but their souls were hardened to resist
such petty evils and not a man amongst
them faltered in his stride. A slavering
daemon leapt into the air, its powerful
wings carrying it across the battlefield in
a heartbeat. It landed before Aurellian,
thick ropes of bloody saliva drooling
from its jaws. It swung its giant axe in a
disembowelling stroke, but he swept up
his force halberd, blocking the blow in a
halo of bright energy. He spun his
weapon and rammed the blade into the
daemon’s belly and tore upwards, ripping a
screech of pain from its jaws. Black light
spilled from the wound as Aurellian
pulled his weapon free and beheaded the
monster with one psychically charged
blow.

>>22153636
The daemon’s substance vanished, dispersed
like smoke in the wind and Angron
bellowed in amusement, his skin splitting
and orange flames blossoming from his
veins. The Daemon Primarch’s bestial face
rippled in the heat haze, and Aurellian
could feel Angron’s hunger to fight them.

“The knights of the corpse god,” rasped
the Daemon Primarch in recognition, the
voice rumbling like a slow-moving
avalanche. “I shall enjoy feeding you your
entrails.”

Aurellian did not reply. He had no wish
to speak with a daemon; its words were
all falsehoods and its very presence
hateful to him.

Thousands of throats gave voice to a roar
of bloodlust as Angron and his
Bloodthirsters stamped forwards, mines
Holding the River Chaeron
detonating harmlessly against their
??daemonic armour. Through the thunder of
explosions, the daemons crashed into the
thin Grey Knight line, axes flashing and
whips snapping. Aurellian saw half a
dozen of his warriors cut down instantly,
shorn in two by shrieking daemon
weapons. He tore his gaze away from the
battle around him as a pair of
Bloodthirsters charged him and his squad.
He widened his stance and braced his
weapon on the ground, shouting, “Grey
Knights, hold!” as the first Bloodthirster
smashed into them. Its whip lashed out,
shearing through a Terminator’s armour
and cleaving him from collarbone to
pelvis. Aurellian lunged, jabbing his blade
at the monster’s head. Its axe smashed
aside his blow and a brass hoof thundered
into his breastplate, buckling the ceramite
and shattering the bone shield of his
chest cavity.

>>22153663
Aurellian collapsed to his knees, fighting
for breath as another of his brothers fell,
ripped apart by Angron, the pieces
swallowed whole. Everywhere he looked,
his warriors were falling, unable to match
the unimaginable ferocity of these avatars
of the Blood God. Though they fought
bravely, with faith and nobility, it was no
match for the primal savagery of their
daemonic foes. But it was not a battle
without cost for Angron and his daemons.
Fully half his retinue were little more
than screeching shadows, their physical
vessels put asunder by the righteous wrath
of the Grey Knights. Aurellian pushed
himself to his feet wincing as he felt that
one of his lungs was pierced. Angron
swung his black sword in wide arcs,
killing with every stroke and his glowing
musculature rippled with power. Aurellian
saw that the Daemons closest to Angron
towered above his Terminators, drawing
their strength from the well of the
Daemon Primarch.

He staggered towards Angron, using his
force halberd to steady himself as his
breath wheezed in his chest. The Grey
Knights closed on their leader, forming an
impenetrable shield wall around him as
they fought their way towards Angron.
The Daemon Primarch saw his foe
approach and reared up to his full height,
bellowing a furious challenge. Lesser
mortals might quail before this monster,
but Aurellian and the Grey Knights had
been steeled to face the worst horrors of
Chaos without flinching. Less than twodozen of them were still alive, but they
were almost there. Daemons pressed in all
around them, attacking in a frenzy of axe
blows and lashing whips. More Grey
Knights fell, their blood mingling on the
cratered earth as Angron and Aurellian
finally came face to face. At some
unheard command, the Bloodthirsters
pulled back, hissing with barely-restrained
battle lust.

>>22146992
>>22147002
>>22146967

These.

>>22153672
Time slowed and the world held its
breath as man and monster faced one
another. One, a devoted and loyal servant
of the divine Emperor of Mankind, the
other the basest traitor who had trampled
on his oaths of loyalty and embraced
ultimate evil.

“You cannot win, Aurellian,” hissed
Angron, planting his sword in the ground
before him.

Aurellian spun his force halberd, assuming
a relaxed fighting stance and pointed the
blade at the Daemon Primarch’s heart.

“You underestimate me, traitor.”

“Perhaps, but I was one of your
Emperor’s chosen and I cannot be
defeated. You know this, Aurellian; I can
see it plain as day. Why must you fight
and die here for a rotted corpse on a
planet you have never seen?"

“Because I must,” said Aurellian simply,
thrusting his weapon towards Angron.

>>22153692
The Daemon Primarch laughed and batted
away the force weapon, scalding steam
hissing from his iron skin. His clawed
wings pounded the air as he fought,
swirling dust and smoke around the
combatants. Aurellian blocked a blow meant
to remove his head, feeling the jarring
impact numb his arm to the elbow, and
ducked the reverse stroke. He spun inside
Angron’s guard and slashed his blade across
his foe’s flank, drawing a bellow of pain
and a wash of hot, black blood.

Angron smashed a club-like fist down on
Aurellian’s shoulder, driving him to the
ground and tearing his helmet from his
head. Lights exploded before Aurellian’s
eyes, but he saw the blow that would kill
him arcing towards his head and threw up
his weapon to block it. Angron’s sword
sheared through the haft of his force
halberd and hacked through his arm in a
shower of sparks and blood. The Grey
Knight tumbled backwards, blood pouring
from his arm, but miraculously still alive.
Aurellian climbed to his feet, his armour
torn open in a dozen places, but his
stance still defiant. Blood was flooding
from his body, too much for even the
Larraman cells to halt. He could see his
men were fighting bravely, but were
falling one by one. Before long they
would all be dead. That they may die was
unimportant, but they must not fail in
their duty.

>>22153697
“Brothers! Defensive circle!” shouted
Aurellian, though it sent hot spikes of
pain through his chest. The few surviving
Grey Knights fought their way towards
him, forming a circle about their wounded
leader.

Aurellian focussed all his hatred of the
Fallen One until it was an incandescent
Brother Captain Aurellian fights for his life.
??power that burned within him and
threatened to consume his flesh unless
released. His battle-brothers felt the power
building within him and, understanding the
finality of such powerful psychic energy,
began doing likewise.

Angron roared, clearly sensing the buildup of their power, but either did not care
or, in his arrogance, believed himself too
powerful to be harmed by it. He charged
towards Aurellian, bellowing in fury.
Aurellian felt the power of his fellow
warriors pulse through him and released it
in a fiery corona of psychic energy. He
screamed as the colossal forces wracked
his shattered body, feeling the life
energies of three of his battle brothers
fade as the power consumed them. The
Bloodthirsters screeched in rage as the
power of the Grey Knights’ faith hit
them like a tidal wave, two bursting apart
in an explosion of black ichor.

>>22153705
Angron roared in pain and Aurellian
watched as the furnace glow of his body
diminished. The Daemon Primarch
dropped to his knees, thick blood
drooling from his slack features. The
Grey Knight next to Aurellian fell, his
body little more than a shrivelled sack of
bones within his armour. As Aurellian
watched, Angron’s form grew less solid,
less real, as though his hold on the
material realm was slipping. Even as he
formed the thought, the Daemon
Primarch’s flesh began re-knitting as his
iron will held his form solid. Aurellian
knew he would never get a better chance
than this and lurched forward, gripping
his force halberd by its splintered haft
like a sword. Angron lifted his bestial
face in time to see Aurellian lift up his
sword and drive it deep within his chest.
Fat red sparks flew as the blade plunged
into the Daemon Primarch’s body, and his
roar of pain split the earth apart all
around him. Aurellian drew upon the
depths of his courage and unleashed his
last reserves of strength and faith through
the force weapon in a blazing spear of
purity.

He rejoiced as he felt Angron’s substance
dissolving and knew that he had defeated
the monster. He pushed the blade deeper
and grunted in sudden pain as Angron’s
sword plunged into his belly and tore
upwards, ripping through his heart and
lungs. He coughed blood, spattering the
daemon’s burning features and feeling his
own killing power ravaging him through
Angron’s blade. The Daemon Primarch
sneered mockingly.

>>22153710
“If we are to die, we will die together,
Aurellian. I will be reborn in the Warp,
but your spirit-flesh will be devoured by
daemons for all eternity, and you will
know an immortality of agony…”

‘So be it!’ shouted Aurellian, and fulfilled
his duty.

******************

OP here- we're archived now. Feel free to keep the discussion going- there's a lot of stuff I'd still like to learn about.

For example, how come Magnus the Red is still more or less unaffected by mutation despite serving the god of mutations? All the other Daemon Primarchs are unrecognizably warped by their service to Chaos, so why isn't he as badly affected as his brothers?

>>22153742
He got to pick his own form.

>>22153754
Really? I would have thought the Architect of Fate's favorite pawn would be more imaginative.

>>22153742
>Magnus the Red
>unaffected by mutation
He's a daemon prince of Tzeentch now, bro. He has no solid form beyond that which he chooses for himself from moment to moment. Not even the Lords of Change can say that for themselves, that birdman-sorcerer form being the body to which they must always eventually return. In essence, Magnus has become the epitome of mutation.

>>22153804
It's not about imagination, it's about about not choosing to look like a pile of shit. Plus he's a daemon, he's kind of mutable

>>22153825
I see. I thought otherwise because in all of his post-Heresy appearances, he's looked more or less the same as he did as a Loyalist.

>>22153877
And it turns out that I forgot about >>22153874

I should look at the minis more often.

>>22153742
>Magnus the Red
>unaffected by mutation
Once he was a giant red cyclops
Now he is a giant blue cyclops with bird wings

You try to be subtle and everyone's all, 'bloo bloo bloo why isn't he a shambling mass of tentacles?'
unappreciatedtzeentch.jpg

>>22147407

So do you think Horus likes Orks? They seem to share the common war for fightin' sake.

>>22153882
Well I've killed him with my Eldar Warlock Titans twin psycannons enough times to remember.

Could someone update the archived thread?

>>22154143
It'll update itself.

>>22153914

I think it's more a case of being afraid of what the peace might bring.

>>22156577
'It's not the horrors of war I'm afraid of, but the unknown horrors of peace.'

Always liked that quote.

Because Humanity is Chaos' favorite plaything. Human souls and emotions is the main source of sustenance for the Dark Gods. In truth, they don't want the Imperium gone, they want it to bleed and writhe for as long as possible so they can feed off it.

CSMs are different story, there's a shitload of reasons for their beef with the Imperium.

So, what if Horus won? What would have happened to the Imperium then?

>>22159301
If you believe the Cabal, he'd kill everyone.

And, skeezy aliums that hate humans and want all humanity to die would NEVER have a reason to lie!

>>22159325
What are you trying to imply?

There are Eldar in the Cabal. Have you ever known an Eldar to not be completely upfront about their motives and goals, let alone to lie?