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[ERROR] No.22104846 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>As for DA they'll be in the WD that gets released in December and will be on sale in Jan, as some have quite rightly already said. (...)You can certainly expect a new speeder type

>*HQ models will be recast into finecast. Same models
>*New Belial model robes, powersword, stormbolter, or plasma bolter combi
>*New Chaplain
>*Deathwing Box Set: Comes with 3 options; Normal DW Terminator Squad, Command/HQ Squad with Banner and Apothecary, and an Elite Squad with Plasma Cannon options
>*Ravenwing Box Set: Bikes remodeled and look like the Ravenwing bikes from Dark Vengeance, but same build as normal bikes, also with added weapons for the new Ravenwing Elite unit.

>Mat Ward is likely the author

>> No.22104930

I dont know 40K fluff. What makes them unique other than they are super paraoid about people knowing that some of their marines went chaos?

>> No.22104968

>>22104930
They have lots of Terminators, IIRC.

>> No.22105017

>>22104968

that sounds boring

>> No.22105031

>>22104930
They have a boner for plasma.

Their entire first company is comprised of Terminators and their entire second company is made up of bikes and speeders.

They have an inner circle comprised of their most senior members and every Chapter Master of their successor chapter. The job of the inner circle is to direct the chapter(s) in finding The Fallen (the traitor marines but they're not chaos by default).

They'll drop everything they're doing, even if that means leaving allies to die, even if they have a chance of finding a member of The Fallen.

>> No.22105033

>>22105017

They'll get worse if they become infected with the same shit that got Space Wolves.

>> No.22105038

>>22104846
Fluffwise:
Holier than thou First Legion
Track down their former brethren and make them repent
1st Company all in Terminator armor all the time
2nd Company rides bikes and landspeeders
Everyone is stubborn and intractable as fuck
They have a very monastic outlook and spend a lot of time in prayer
They are very secretive about their history, even to members of the Chapter, with marines only learning the darker parts as they rise through the ranks.
Often prove to be surprisingly not up their ass and noble.
Have a large store of rare and ancient equipment, most notably plasma weapons and terminator armor

Gamewise:
Codex: Ultramarines Beta

>> No.22105046

>>22104930
Aren't they just renegades, not chaos?

Has anyone seen any 'Fallen Angels' Chaos warband lists? That would be pretty cool.

>> No.22105055

>>22104846
I'm not complaining.

Ward might make godawful fluff but he writes solid crunch.

>> No.22105059

>>22104930
They have lots of plasma, their first and second companies have specialized roles (One is all terminators, two is all bikes and speeders, both tend to operate independently), they have robes and arthurian influences in their design and mythology, and if we don't let them have their own codex the space wolves will laugh forever.

and as a space wolf player that would be kind of sad.

>> No.22105125

>>22105046
They're not inherently Chaos. Even if you follow the version that Luther was corrupted by Chaos (and thus some of the garrison on Caliban must have been too) a lot of the Fallen stories don't really involve them being followers of Chaos.

Some of them really are remorseful for what they've done, some of them just end up becoming renegades, some of them have fallen to Chaos (whether that's because they were following Chaos during the HH or because of the inevitable fall to Chaos that happens with being a renegade is up for debate), one instance had them leading an uprising (IIRC) that included Chaos followers but they weren't explicitly Chaos tainted, and some of them are just MYSTERY like Cypher.

>> No.22105147

>>22105046
Depends on the Marine.
Astelan is a wackjob renegade
His former underlings are also renegades
Cypher is up in the air
Cadmus was working with the Thousand Sons
Cephesus and the Angel of Blades were full Chaos
The Luther Sword is a daemon weapon

>> No.22105158

So if I was going to run a 'renegade' space marine lists in 40k, what would be the best way to do it?

Codex Chaos SM is too chaos...
Would I just use Codex Ultramarines and try to have a radical paintjob?

>> No.22105196

>>22105158
Yes.

>> No.22105206

They're a Codex chapter that's not a Codex chapter. To every other chapter it looks like they follow it, but really the Lion wrote a book on tactics that they follow more closely. The Lion was also second only to Horus in terms of tactical gueniusery so it's probably a bit better than the Codex Astartes.

Then there's also that whole thing of who are really the good guys when dealing with the Fallen. The HH books make it out to be the Fallen were afraid that the Lion was going to destroy Caliban because it was tainted by chaos before people knew what chaos was.

>> No.22105216

>>22105158
Wolves might actually be best.
Just steer clear of anything super wolfy.

You could also use Vanilla Marines and avoid things that don't line up with CSM entries.

>> No.22105265

>>22105206
If they could play that up, an element of 'No Dark Angels, you are the Fallen. And then DA were chaos', I would actually be interested in them.

That sounds more interesting than anything else someone has said about the Dark Angels. The idea that they might be half-way into the Chaos taint in the first place, these holy knights with supreme tactics that are actually tainted to the core by their quest.

There you go Matt, I did it for you.

>> No.22105299

>>22105265
>The idea that they might be half-way into the Chaos taint in the first place, these holy knights with supreme tactics that are actually tainted to the core by their quest.

That's sort of what happened to Luther or it's implied to happen. He embraced Chaos to try and fight it but it backfired on him when the Lion came back.

>> No.22105309

>Expected Dark Angels Launch miniatures:

>Deathwing Box
>Ravenwing Box
>Dark Angels Powered Armor Box
>Mystery Large Vehicle

>3 New Characters:

>Belial,
>Asmodai
>Namaan

>...existing characters moved to finecast.

>Dark Angels recieve a Full codex - not a White Dwarf update. DarkshroudLand Speeder variant which has an ancient statue from the Fortress-Monastery. Using channeled warp energy, it creates and impenetrable field of darkness beneath and behind itself.

>Dark Talon
>Flyer of unknown size which operates in squadrons, armed with hurricane bolters, maybe more.

>Nephilim Strike Fighter
>Variant on the Avenger, has wingtip-mounted Blacksword Missiles and an Avenger weapon system.

>Black Knights
>The Ravenwing elite, they have plasma weapons on all their bikes, and instead carry raven head-shaped thunderhammers into battle, with the Hunt Master having a corvus hammer.

>> No.22105337

>Azrael still won't get a new fucking miniature

HE'S HAD THE SAME FUCKING ONE FOR 15 YEARS! HE DESERVES A NEW ONE

>> No.22105349

>>22105206

Fusilli man was a better strategist than Horus, but Horus was more likable and a better diplomat, hence why he became Warmaster.

>> No.22105366

>>22105299
Even if that is in a small piece of fluff, I would like it reflected in the miniatures and rules.

I think that is my problem with the Dark Angels as a chapter unique enough for their own book, their possibly interesting fluff isn't reflected in their rules.

Black Templars always charge when attacked, reflect their numbers in their troop choices, and don't follow selection restrictions of the astartes. Cool.

Blood Angels have guys that reflect their Death Company deal, and they have a chance to autism rage on everyone. Cool.

Dark Angels? The only fluff we have reflected in the miniatures is the make up of their first two companies. That is why everyone calls them boring.

I know this will likely be fixed with this codex, but it is hard to be excited in the meantime.

>> No.22105380

>>22105309
>Asmodai
>already has a model

>> No.22105400

>>22105349

>Fusilli man

Cuntfucking asspebbles, I hope Steve Jobs burns in hell.

>> No.22105421

>>22105349
What was Horus' and his Legions specialty, anyway? Being even more bland than Guilliman & Co?

>> No.22105440

>>22105380
So does Naaman. Because he's a boss.

>>22105337
But the Azrael model is awesome. Much like Ezekiel and Mephiston. Also Fabius.

>> No.22105457

>>22105421

They were vanilla before it was popular.

Rapid insertion via drop pod was their "thing" though.

>> No.22105473

>>22105421
Horus was a commander.
He could do everything pretty damn well, but excelled at figuring out what you did better than him and making you offer to do it for him.

>> No.22105523

No mention of their potential secret homosexuality yet? I don't know whether to be disappointed or proud, /tg/.

>> No.22105553

>>22105421
The Sons of Horus were adept at half-conquering a planet before flying off to the next one, leaving Guilliman to deal with putting down rebellions and establishing logistical routes.

>> No.22105561

>>22105523
Because that got old a long time ago.

>> No.22105579

>>22105366
They used to have Intractable which kept them from retreating because of enemy fire, but also prevented them from moving the next turn.
It worked alongside Stubborn to show that the Dark Angels went above and beyond Know No Fear and took no steps back in the face of the enemy. Also no xeno or abhuman allies, ever.

Then the 4th Edition Codex came out and Battle Squads was supposed to be their new green armor thing, shared with BA.

But they gave that and their plasma cannons to normal marines because Spiritual Liege.

>> No.22105599

>>22105553

Did they ever even crusade together?

Thought the Ultras only really had contact with the Word Bearers, Blood Angels, Iron Warriors and Salamanders.

>> No.22105610

>>22105579
>battle squad scout snipers
WHY CAN'T I HOLD ALL THESE FIELDS OF FIRE AND FAILED PINNING TESTS!?

>> No.22105633

>>22105599

>His own Legion had all the glory of being the greatest Primarch’s personal guard, and they shared Horus’ credo of fighting to be the best. Under his inspiring command, the Luna Wolves were always at the forefront of the latest campaign, pushing the boundaries of the Imperium ever wider, driving further and further into the galaxy and striving to conquer and liberate more worlds than the other Legions. In the Aartuo, Keskastine and Androv Systems, the Luna Wolves are known to have moved swiftly on to planet after planet as soon as the local armies had been subdued. The Ultramarines and the Iron Warriors, who were fighting alongside Horus’ Legion at this time, were repeatedly left to mop up any final pockets of resistance and establish garrisons on the conquered worlds. The Luna Wolves officers apparently refused point blank to assign any troops to these duties, insisting that every man was required for the ongoing crusade. Further rebellion flared up on a number of the planets after the Luna Wolves had left, and it is believed that the Ultramarines Primarch Roboute Guilliman subsequently had words with Horus on the matter. At the time it seems that Horus pacified the Primarch by admitting that Guilliman was much better at this sort of thing than he was, however in his great work, the Codex Astartes – completed much later – Guilliman prescribed a much more thorough tactical doctrine for the suppression of a planet.

Index Ass-tarties: Black Legion

>> No.22105662

>>22105633

I stand corrected.

>> No.22105679

>>22105579
Plus the deathwing were fearless when other terminators weren't. Really the big thing about Dark Angels is NOT ONE STEP BACK!

>> No.22105683

>>22105633
That first sentence in the picture always manages to rustle my jimmies. It's so arrogant.

>> No.22105703

>>22105683

That's not how arrogance works.

>> No.22105711

>>22105553
So, they weren't really good at anything in particular and their main advantage over the other Legions was the fact that Horus was a pretty good diplomat? No wonder they've been struggling to get shit done for the last ten thousand years; they aren't the best at anything, they're just not the worst.

>> No.22105742

>>22105711

They also had super angry man abbadon

>> No.22105753

>>22105703
It's not? I guess it's not arrogance if they're right, but they're not - Gray Knights are superior, aren't they?

>> No.22105783

>>22105711
They were good at being obedient lapdogs. Also speartips.

>Combat Doctrine
>The Legion is a flexible fighting force, that can perform well and adapt quickly to any combat situation. It was trained to respond sharply and decisively to the tactical orders of its Warmaster and consequently the chain of command within the Legion was very efficient. This suffered significantly during the early years of exile when the Legion was leaderless, but Abaddon has done much to restore discipline, mainly through fear and horrendous violence inflicted on those that displease him. Horus’ favoured doctrine of ‘tearing the throat out of the enemy’ by eliminating their high command in a swift strike, remains a well-used tactic.

>> No.22105796

>>22105753

Arrogance would be if they wrote that themselves.

"We are the best chapter there ever was"
-the Ultramarines

As it is, that text is written by a 2nd party about the Ultramarince.

>> No.22105931

>>22105523
> Inquistor X : "I know your dirty secret, angel !"
> DA : (holy shit) "I have no ide..."
> Inquistor X : "I know about your "knighthood", and what you all do with "initiates" hide in your fortress !"
> DA : "oh ... you mean that "secret", well you got us I guess"

captcha : deceipt doubt

>> No.22105975

>>22105931
>que awkward laughter from the DA

>> No.22106068

>>22105796
Ah, thought that was written BY a Ultramarine; or even Girlyman himself. I stand corrected.

>> No.22106079

>>22105633
Wait a minute. Wasn't it Battlefleet Tempestus operating outside of their regional boundaries kamikazeing the hive fleet that defeated Behemoth.

Cause I remember a whole lot of Ultramarines dying in doomed last stands on the surface and failing to find codex appropriate pages in space when that was going on.

>> No.22106133

>>22105610
Remember back in the day when pinning was awesome?

6th Edition- Can't move, get extra cover and can overwatch and fire snap shots.
3rd Edition- Stand around with your thumb up your ass for a turn.

I miss old DE pinning armies. They were cool.

>> No.22106178

>>22106133
Oh it was fucking amazing against orks. I would down 5 or 6 of them on average then my heavy bolter devastators would just rip them apart.

>> No.22106211

As a DA player, I want to say FUCK YOU to everyone raining on the DA parade

>> No.22106228

>>22106133
It sucks that pinning is so rare in some armies.

I think I can count the ways to get pinning for Dark Eldar on one hand.

>> No.22106239

>Often prove to be surprisingly not up their ass and noble.
Bastalek Grimm spends 3rd edition wandering the codices badmouthing chapters and calling them heretics for not worshiping the Emperor. He goes to the Blood Angels Codex and calls them mutants and heretics, he goes to the Space Wolves Codex and calls them deviants and heretics, he goes to the Dark Angels Codex and write in his journal that something seems fishy.

They fucking kill him and dump his body in space.

>> No.22106244

>>22106211

Fuck you too.

Having dresses and different colored 1st and 2nd companies should not be grounds for a whole codex.

I hope it turns out worse than the last one.

>> No.22106296

>>22106079
Well, it says the Ultrines were "instrumental" in Behemoth's defeat, which is true. They held out long enough for the Tempestus fleet to arrive, and Calgar's own ships acted as bait to draw the full hive fleet out.

>> No.22106309

>>22106228
From 5th Edition on it seems like pinning and infiltrate have pretty much been left to rot.

I miss the days when I could infiltrate an entire IG army, roughly tripling my deployment zone and forcing you to set up first. I miss infiltrator wars when both players would have mass infiltrating armies and would deploy to deny the other player deployment options. I miss forcing my opponent to spread out his deployment to deal with me showing up from anywhere and then just deploying normally because I could.

>> No.22106313

>>22106244
LULz
Before Space Yiffs and Space Vampires codexes there was little to differentiate those chapters.

but OMG they are so unique!!! NO LONG FANGS ARENT JUST DEVASTATORS.
sanguinary priests = chaplains, etc.

I'd say that DA have more going for them going INTO a new era codex than the other two I mentioned did

>> No.22106342

>>22106244
If you include the 2nd Ed Codex you can also include Interrogator Chaplains and Chapter Banners

>> No.22106350

>>22106296
>and Calgar's own ships acted as bait to draw the full hive fleet out.
That's a very politically correct way of saying, "Oh God Emperor on Terra! They're eating them and then they're going to eat me! P...please save me Bakka!"

>> No.22106415

>>22106313

Space Wolves were the very first Space Marine codex.

Yes, it preceded Codex: Ultramarines.

>> No.22106418

>>22106244
say that yo my face motherfucker and not on the internet.
so on and so forth

>> No.22106502

>>22106244
Fuck you too.

Having mutants, outdated technology and a different religion should not be grounds for a whole codex.

I hope it turns out worse than the last one.

>> No.22106579

>>22106502

The Chaos codex already did come out, and yes it was shit.

>> No.22106615

>>22106579
You spelled 'awesome' wrong.

>> No.22106713

>>22106239
Suddenly I like the DA a lot more.

>> No.22106733

>>22106615

No cult terminators, no rules for legions, Thousand sons are still shit. Khorne Berzerkers are worthless.

Warlord traits gives my Alpha Legion lord a 1 in 6 chance of being an Alpha Legionairre.

>> No.22106787

>>22106733
>No cult terminators, no rules for legions, Thousand sons are still shit. Khorne Berzerkers are worthless.

No one cares about that fluff crap. What matters is usefulness of the book, which is good.

>> No.22106848

>>22104846
>DARK angels
>forest green armor

>> No.22106886

>>22106211
As a DA player... you can't win. Right now everyone's (correctly) saying that your dudes aren't different enough to deserve their own codex. But in a few weeks, when Ward has added a boatload of ridiculous crap to your army to make it distinctive... you'll be hated for playing Wardian special snowflakes.

>> No.22106895

>>22106787
> >>22106733 points out a bunch of useless models and places where there could easily be extra gameplay options, but there aren't
>"No one cares about that fluff crap"

>> No.22106910

>>22106886

The best way to approach this is to play what you want and ignore the haters. Or insinuate that they are butthurt and jelly because of Ward's musculous might.

>> No.22106936

>>22106886

Look forward to darksword missiles and evilwarp statues that create darkfields and shoot darkbolts.

Also Ravenwing knights with ravenhammers.

>> No.22106946

>>22106895

It is fluff crap.

Cult terminators are filler for the role of 2+ armored cc focused infantry which the codex has aplenty. Khorne berzerkers are CC infantry in power armour, again the codex already has that, and 1k sons are anti-marine infantry again something the codex has.

They're fully redundant, and taking them in would only have added something for the fluff bunnies.

>> No.22106954

>>22106848
>Iron Hands
>Black power armor

>> No.22106996

>>22106954
>World Eaters
>Red and gold armor

>> No.22106998

>>22106733
I'm sad about the 1k Sons. Berserkers are fine. There are already two flavors of terminators in there.

The legions that aren't made up mostly by one group of the elites (berserkers, plague marines, etc) will have to make do like all the Space Marine groups who have no book.

Could it have been better? Yeah.
Is it terrible? No, it did a good job of expanding options while creating a viable army.

>> No.22107001

>>22106946

Wow, players like this exist?

>> No.22107003

>>22106946
>Cult terminators are filler for the role of 2+ armored cc focused infantry which the codex has aplenty. Khorne berzerkers are CC infantry in power armour, again the codex already has that, and 1k sons are anti-marine infantry again something the codex has.
Why do you play this game. I'm sure you could find a statistical program to tell you when you win.

>> No.22107036

>>22107003

>You must want all this stuff that does stuff the stuff in codex already does or nofunallowed

>> No.22107050

>>22106886
>Hating Ward
>The dying embers of the year 2012

>> No.22107058

What are cult terminators? What's the difference between them and just taking terminators and giving them marks?

>> No.22107067

>>22106886
>As a DA player... you can't win
You're getting Ward, you've already won.

>> No.22107074

I'm looking forward to some crazy new fluff, Chaos Marines were just so bland compared to Ward-fluff.

>> No.22107083

>>22107058
The same difference between a Plague Marine and a Marine with a Mark of Nurgle.

>> No.22107107

>>22107058

They have worse stats than their cult troop equivalents.

A Khorne terminator is worse in close combat than a Berzerker, a nurgle terminator has no feel no pain.

>> No.22107142

>>22107058

Not much.
In 3.5e they were just terminators with mark. The cult marines were too, basically.

Then they made the power armoured marines separate entries in 4e and people started crying because they wanted the same treatment for termies.

>> No.22107157

>>22107036
2/3's of those are in the codex.
They're also long time well known parts of the codex and game.
They should be the go to units for doing what they do.

>> No.22107174

>>22107142
In 3.5 they also got access to a huge specialist armory for each god.

>> No.22107178

>>22107142

I'd be fine if they just degraded the cult marines again.

And my friend still has sonic Dreadnoughts and Predators without rules.

>> No.22107201

>>22107157

>long time well known parts of the game

Not in 2e.

Not in 3e.

In 3.5e they were just marked terminators and marked marines were cult marines.

Not in 4e.

They're something that has been latched on by a small number of noisy fluff bunnies.

Power armoured cult marines are a long established thing since 2e. Cult terminators as something separate from marked terminators is not a long established thing.

>> No.22107208

>>22107178
>I'd be fine if they just degraded the cult marines again.

This, I just want the fuckers to be uniform.

>> No.22107216

>>22107050
I don't actually hate Ward. Just saying he'll throw ridiculous crap in there, and some people (probably including at least a few Dangels players) will hate. Such is the way of /tg/.

Really looking forward to seeing how the shitstorm plays out, though. Newcrons was a near flawless victory. I think if Ward had written Chaos Marines he could have pressed his advantage still further, but another loyalist codex is a tougher sell.

>> No.22107256

>>22107216
>I think if Ward had written Chaos Marines
WHY MUST YOU PEOPLE KEEP REMINDING US OF WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN!?

>> No.22107272

>>22107201

But still, every World Eater is a berzerker, give them Terminator armour and they get worse?

>> No.22107283

>>22105158

Use the Horus Heresy stuff from Forgeworld. They don't follow the Codex: Astartes because they were around before it was written, they follow a totally different organization scheme.

>> No.22107314

>>22107283
Renegades would be closer to the codex though.

>> No.22107349

>>22105265
>If they could play that up, an element of 'No Dark Angels, you are the Fallen. And then DA were chaos', I would actually be interested in them.
>That sounds more interesting than anything else someone has said about the Dark Angels. The idea that they might be half-way into the Chaos taint in the first place, these holy knights with supreme tactics that are actually tainted to the core by their quest.
>There you go Matt, I did it for you.

That's almost shallow and awful enough for him to use so congrats I guess.

>> No.22107362

>>22107272

There are other interpretations, such as "all berzerkers wear PA". No berzerker termies around then.

>> No.22107372

>>22105337
Amen, brudder

>> No.22107387

>>22107362

My interpretation has been printed since 2nd edition.

Yours?

>> No.22107442

>>22105265
Dark Angels are pretty evil and sinister already. Adding "but lol they chaos nao" would would cheapen them.

>> No.22107492

>>22107387

Where in 2e are berzerker terminators mentioned?

Even their Index Astartes article specifically says World Eaters picked up "chainaxe and bolt pistol". No terminators.

>> No.22107495

>>22106239
>>Often prove to be surprisingly not up their ass and noble.
>Bastalek Grimm spends 3rd edition wandering the codices badmouthing chapters and calling them heretics for not worshiping the Emperor. He goes to the Blood Angels Codex and calls them mutants and heretics, he goes to the Space Wolves Codex and calls them deviants and heretics, he goes to the Dark Angels Codex and write in his journal that something seems fishy.
>They fucking kill him and dump his body in space.


This is what I like about DA.

>> No.22107531

>>22106415

I thought that was Codex: Angels of Death?

>> No.22107538

>>22107492

It mentions that every world eater is a Berzerker.

Guess they don't have any lords either as they can't get furious charge.

>> No.22107567

>>22107531
Nope. Woofs, then Ultrines, then AoD.

>> No.22107740

>>22107201
I meant Khorne Berzerkers and Thousand Sons.

>> No.22107795

>>22107538

>It mentions that every world eater is a Berzerker.

But it does not mention world eater terminators. Those appear just in one 3e WD article and are then vanish, like Sensei.

They're insane berzerkers with all semblance of organization destroyed. Fighters, not leaders.

So not having lords makes sense.

>> No.22107918

>>22105265
>>22107442
>Dark Angels are pretty evil and sinister already. Adding "but lol they chaos nao" would would cheapen them.

This, I think. I would much prefer it if they were far darker and more sinister Imperials with an alternate unknown agenda rather than just "lol chaos".

Also I think the Dark Angels are definitely divergent enough to get their own codex: the entire Deathwing and Ravenwing, Interrogator-Chaplains, ancient technology, stubbornness and fearlessness - why is that not enough? That's just as divergent as the Blood Angels and Black Templars (more so) were before they got new stuff in their codexes. Not to mention they have plenty of room to expand, especially the whole "ancient technology" shtick they have going on - which could let them have some crazy new vehicles or equipment left over from the Dark Age of Technology or something.

>> No.22107940

>>22107918
And I'm sure they can find something to do with the Ironwing.

Not that anyone ever remembers the Ironwing.

>> No.22107998

>>22107940

I'll admit I've never heard of that before. What was it, an armoured company or something?

>> No.22108168

>>22107998
land raiders I think.
Don't quote me on that

>> No.22108180

>>22107998
Pretty much, it was mostly an Epic thing so I don't know too much about it.

I doubt they'd give us a marine armored company, but it would be pretty cool.
HQ: Predator Or Land Raider with some upgrade
Elites: Predators and Land Raiders
Troops: Tactical Squads in Rhinos, Maybe Rhino Squads
Fast Attack: Razorbacks squads and Vindicators
Heavy Support: Whirlwinds and Vindicators

>> No.22108183

>>22107998

Yeah, gig tanky formation

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