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[ERROR] No.22020918 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Can we have a general 40k question thread for all of us new players out there?

My question is if I have a unit that is arriving from deep strike but mishaps and is then placed in ongoing reserves does it then reroll a scatter and deep strike normally? What happens if it mishaps again as the rule book says units in ongoing reserves always enter the game the next turn?

>> No.22021013

They enter withought rolling the next turn is all that it means.

You would roll on the mishap table again

>> No.22021022

Also my friends terminator don't get extra attacks for having dual weapon correct? As even though their storm bolters are 1 handed they don't count as a close combat weapon?

And if they do the models which have power fists still can't use them because of power fists having the specialist rule and storm bolters not having it right?

>> No.22021041

What happens if the roll a 4-6 again on the mishap table? Are they placed into ongoing reserves again?

>> No.22021101

Yes, this is given of course that you misshaped a second time.

>> No.22021128

The only guns that let you get extra attacks are pistols. In order to get the bonus attack you have to have at least two CCW type weapons or a weapon and a pistol of some kind

Specialist weapons need a second specialist weapon to gain a second attack from so yes.

>> No.22021139


Correct, Storm Bolters don't confer extra attacks, the only guns that do are pistols.

Terminators armed with Power Fists only get a bonus attack for wielding two close combat weapons if the other weapon has the specialized weapon rule too, such as another Power Fist or a Lightning Claw.

>> No.22021149

Storm Bolters are assault weapons, so they don't give you a bonus attack. Pistols and and close combat weapons can, if you aren't using a specialist weapon.

What faction do you play? Having any problems in particular?

>> No.22021230

Well I split assault with black reach with a guy and took the marines and picked up their codex but since the release of dark vengeance I've decided to strip the AoBR marines to practice painting a dark angels color scheme (they only had a blue base coat anyways). So now I'm waiting on the new DA codex since I don't want to spend thirty now and fifty in a month or so.

Also in the DV set in mission 6 it doesn't make any mention of scoring units just that when a model reaches the hellfire stone it then moves with it. Do normal objectives in regular games work like this? And can the Ravenguard bikers or terminators pick up the stone in the DV mission?

>> No.22021349

Normally objectives can only be claimed by troops. Pretty much anything other than a vehicle can prevent the other guy from claiming an objective though.

Have you tried snagging the old Dark Angels codex as a pdf? Again, it'll be out dated in a bit, but you'd be surprised at how long it can take GW to get around to an update. Them rumors ain't to be trusted.

I don't know about the Dark Vengeance missions. Does it say "scoring unit" when referring to who can pick up the stone?

At the moment, Dark Angels are all about hitting one part of the enemy really hard, then rolling up the line. There are special HQs that make Ravenwing or Deathwing scoring models.

>> No.22021444

Yeah I've looked around for the PDF but couldn't find it so no big deal. I've seen that regular DW and RW are supposed to be troop choices so that could be why DV doesn't mention anything about scoring units, also I take it in regular games objectives are stationary?

>> No.22021560

>just starting
>bought a bunch of plaguebearers and paints
>oh yeah i'll only buy this many paints, getting to the next point will take me a while im new and shit

and now i need a bunch more paints, might buy some cultists as well

>> No.22021561

Supposed to be troop choices in the next codex*

>> No.22021595

Most of the time they are, though there's a mission much like this hellfire stone one.

The regular ones aren't scoring unless you grab the special character who works with 'em. Those being Sam on his hoverbike and Belial the terminator chap.

It could go either way. If you can only grab the stone with your tacs then he can only use his cultists.

Like so many other things in 40k, make up a house rule for it.

>> No.22021616


That said, you really can't rely on rumor. So many people do and get disappointed. It's better to be pleasantly surprised than filled with burning hate.

...unless you're chaos I guess.

>> No.22021619

In multiple combats if a second unit charges right behind another one and can't get into base contact with any of my models does the charge work or do they only need to reach the bases of the first unit who charged?

>> No.22021656

You need to reach an enemy model's base.

>> No.22021694

Ok so if the lych guard were able to get into base contact but were unable to get all their models within two inches of a friendly model from their own unit do they still get to fight if they're within two inches of a friendly model that is in base contact with the enemy from another unit?

>> No.22021709

Also if two units engaged in combat have the same initiative (and therefore are technically "fighting at the same time" and they both lose enough models at the front to where no model is in base to base contact what happens then?

>> No.22021746

Combat works like this:

1. Declare that unit x is assulting unit y.

2. Unit y shoots their overwatch.

3. Unit x rolls their charge distance, if the closest model can get ino b2b move the unit up to however many inches you rolled.

4. Declare and accept challenges.

5. At a model's initiative step, move that model 3" into the combat if it isn't yet in b2b.

6. Models get to attack at this point if they are within 2 inches of a friendly model in b2b.

And other steps... but 5 and 6 should answer your question.

>> No.22021759

At the end of the assault, there's another pile in move if memory serves.

>> No.22021780

Ok so any friendly model not just ones of their own unit.

Also I would assume since wounds in close combat work like in shooting (the closest model) that which enemy model is attacked would depend on where each of my models were in relation to them.

In this case though do both units use the majority of all their weapon skill or do I separate which of my marines are hitting unit x and which are hitting unit y?

>> No.22021821

Btw Duke thanks for putting up with what are probably simple questions.

To sort of move away from close combat, since dreadnoughts and other walkers count as vehicles does that mean they can't deny objectives?

Also the center of a blast marker has to be going over an enemy model's base right? Meaning the center of the blast marker can't be hitting what would just be open terrain to grab more model in its radius?

>> No.22021842

It should be a friendly in their unit.

With removing models in CC, the player eating the wounds gets to remove models in b2b in their preference.

You choose which models are attacking which enemy unit when their initiative rolls around, then resolve their attacks like normal.

>> No.22021849

Okay, so my IG Sergeant has a laspistol and chainsword. His profile says two attacks. Does he actually get three attacks for having the pistol/sword combo?

>> No.22021876


>> No.22021889

Or four on the charge.

>> No.22021899

You're welcome. Being a Dark Eldar player though, you should be aware this is all part of my evil plan.

For most walkers you're right. If you ever have the misfortune of playing against grey knights you'll find that they can make their dreadnaughts scoring.

By center it, they mean center it. A little wiggling is inevitable, but try not to.

>> No.22021916

Awesome, I had it right then.

Also, Jank saves. Pure cover save, or a different type of cover save? (One Leman Russ variant has a cannon that ignores cover saves.)

>> No.22021935

Right but if four models are together like this


Then the blast marker can't be put in the center of them, the center point of it must be over one of the models bases as well correct?

>> No.22021950

Cover saves are cover saves, even those provided by jink.

Some vehicles have other saves, like invul or the like, an they'd still get those.

I think there's also a Basilisk variant that ignores cover. And for a while those... anti-aircraft guns... the ones with Skyfire, where the best things in the game at taking down Dark Eldar.

Not anymore, granted.

>> No.22021969

When you fire it, you pick one poor soul to try to drop the blast on. Then scatter from that one guy.

>> No.22021976

Ah, I've heard that they're a different type "moving too fast" type save. Is there anything Geedub that would clarify this?

Also, those AA guns are Hydras. IG up in this MOTHAFUCKA!

>> No.22022004

Ok goo that's great news. Necron dickery as apparently been fucking me over with particle whips and doomsday cannons.

>> No.22022014

Jink just gives you a cover save, one that can be made slightly better by skilled rider or turboing. The book states as much word for word in the entry for Jink.

Man... I had one game againt guard at a con that blew my brain out the side of my head. ALL THE LONG RANGE FIREPOWER!!!

That said, it's a little sad when my poorly armored shooty guys can reliably beat something in melee.

...I don't have many guard pics.

>> No.22022041

That isn't to say that you won't get nailed by particle whips and doomsday cannons.

You have been rolling for night fight each game, right? That'll help in situations where the other guy out-shoots you. As will picking Strategic traits for your warlord.

I've been having trouble picking out an army-wide weakness for necrons. Shoot the choppy ons, strand the fast ones, and chop the shooty ones only goes so far.

>> No.22022046

I'll have to look at that again, since the guys at the FLGS go by the "it's a cover save but not" line. Something I found a bit dubious but rolled with.

And yeah, a standard Russ has 72 in range, and a Bassie has a range measured in feet. Guard like keeping people mid to far range. My friend plays DEldar as well. Dem poison weapons man.

>> No.22022047

Found one.

>> No.22022061

Awesome. That's one I've not seen before.

>> No.22022079

Dat poison is nice, and nicer against stronger armies. Against t3, it's a lasgun. Against t5 it's a heavy bolter.

Getting accross the board hasn't been a problem. Doing enough damage when I get there has been.

One of the nice things about Dark Eldar is that we can outshoot some armies and out melee others.

>> No.22022093

poison makes wraithlords cry. Because you know, somehow a poison works against a construct powered by a soul.

>> No.22022094

Not really. The only guy I've played with is a friend of mine (he plays necrons) and he only likes playing purge the alien and not using night fighting rules so that's mainly what we've been going with. Also on a 48" square board so lots of shooting happens no matter what.

Found a local gaming store that has dedicated 40k nights that's pretty close since my other stores sell 40k stuff but only really have stuff for yu-gi-oh and m:tg

>> No.22022102

He's been introduced to the "Dark Lance cheese" list though. We will see how this turns out with my army of IG.

We're both in a League for beginners though, so there's not too much anyone can cheese out. (Except for the guy with 'crons though. You know who you are if reading this, Triarch stalker and flyer guy.)

>> No.22022107

Don't forget 'crons. Who are all robot.

>> No.22022109

Anyone mind if i post a list?

>> No.22022130

Fluffwise, DE do a lot of research before a raid and bring weapons designed for whoever they're fighting. Like nanobot dissemblers for necrons.

...agreed, it doesn't really make any sense.

What makes DE cry is people who only take Troops. We're great at trashing super units, but we are lackluster against normal dudes.

1 Landraider? Yeah. Can blow it up in one turn, easy. 7 Rhinos? Yeah, we can blow 1 up per turn.

The trick is, to have fun and to vary your experience a bit. Nothing wears people out like playing the same mission all the time.

There's a mission book that's got all many of crazy stuff in it. It's widely available as a pdf online.

It's kinda fuzzy, but that's on of my Raiders. It's a neon tiedye color scheme across the army.

>> No.22022131

I'm hoping someone can explain warp talons to me. From where I stand, it looks like they deep strike in, possibly inconvenience a unit, stand around, and then get shot to pieces before they get to charge. Is this accurate?

>> No.22022154


One could argue the poison is crafted to corrode wraithbone and living metal.

This would raise the question why the poison does nothing against land speeders or warbuggies.

>> No.22022167

Dont deepstrike.

>> No.22022170

Go for it. Is 40k help thread.

If you bring Chimeras he'll cry. Just remember that autocannons do a lot more against Dark Eldar than Lascannons.

Also... Plasma blows us up better than melta.

The trick is to pick on an isolated unit. Like a Devestator Squad that's a long ways in the back. Or a tank on the far flank, if you can kit them for tank hunting.

They've got a pretty long threat range. Put 'em somewhere away from anti-infantry fire and they'll do better.

>> No.22022183

>1750 Eldar
w/ Fortune, Runes of Warding

5 firedragons
Waveserpent w/ TL-Shuricannon

5 firedragons
Waveserpent w/ TL-Shuricannon

7 Scorpions
Exarch w/ shadowstrike, Stalker and Biting blade.

10 Dire avengers
Exarch w/ Bladestorm and 2 Shuricats
Waveserpent w/ TL-Shuricannon

5 pathfinders

3 Jetbikes

3 Jetbikes

>Fast attack
5 Swooping Hawks
Exarch w/ sunrifle, intercept

Nightwing Interceptor

>Heavy Support
Fire prism

3 Dark reapers
Exarch w/ EML, Fast shot

Aegis line
w/ Icarus lascannon.

>> No.22022199

Looks pretty solid. What have you been having trouble with? Do you have any concerns with how it's been playing?

No doom or guide?

Also, how do you like those Dire Avengers? I've been thinking of giving them a spin.

>> No.22022236

That's the thing. No dedicated transports allowed.

>> No.22022270

Where should librarians go once on the table? They seem to be one of the squishier than most hq options but force weapons seem very bad ass in close combat too.

>> No.22022275

>Last 4 games
>Tau, victory, table wipe, turn 5
>Guard, Victory narrow, Objectives
>Deldar, Loss narrow, Objectives
>New Chaos, loss, table wipe turn 4

New Chaos wrecked my stones the other day.
He ran 3 units of 7 Plague marines in rhinos with Plasma guns, a prince with wings/blackmace, Nurgle chaos lord, 2 vindicators, mutilators and terminators for deepstrike.

Deldar just out maneuvered me, and I didn't bring down his raiders in time and so had incubi tearing apart my assault units and wyches destroying my other stuff, Icarus downed his Voidraven as it entered the battlefield, but he just had so many transports.

The farseer is just to fortune the dire avenger transport. and give warding. Dire avengers detroy whatever they hit, and normally manage to grab an objective.

>> No.22022284

Interesting. I'd say that it would hurt the Dark Eldar player more than you.

That'd encourage jumpy infantry and outflankers. Just have a plan to take and hold an enemy objective. So many guard players I've run into aren't prepared to take ground.

Does your group also ban special characters?

>> No.22022306

It really does hurt him more. This next HQ choice allows named HQs. I plan on a techpriest and servitors to repair vehicles and crush things in CC with their servo-arms. (Guard named guys are a bit too expensive for what they do, excluding Pask.)

Also, we are behind on points because this is the first of its kind at the FLGS. (Restrained to one box of troops instead of points-wise at the beginning.) But it has been fixed.

>> No.22022349

They should hang out in a squad. Often they hop in with some Tacs or some terminators. Usually they're a little more about using those really cool powers than going into melee.

Chaos hit pretty hard, but don't have much mobility. It looks like you don't have much of an assault unit.

vs. Chaos
I want to say that his weak point is an anemic troops slot, but plagues are really hard to deal with. That's a mean list. Most of my suggestions would be typical competitive drivel, other than to save the fire dragons for anti-terminator duty rather than go after those Vindicators the Daemon Prince.

vs. Dark Eldar:
We have a really, really hard time when the enemy groups into a brick and takes over the middle of the board. Try reserving those guardian bikes unless you want them to get wiped out by Splinter Cannons.

Have those Swooping Hawks been useful to you?

>> No.22022366

Oh, here's one I've been wondering.

A mixed unit, with let's say, +4 saves gets hit by something with AP4. Commander has a +5 invuln. Does he get his invuln? And where would it say so in the rules?

Also, mixed unit. +3 save unit amongst +5 units. The +3 would be hit. Majority save or unit save? Also, rules reference?

>> No.22022388

In melee though their force weapons let them instant kill things. Also if a model has a bolt pistol in its war gear but not on the model does it get the +1 for its number of attacks?

>> No.22022445

Hawks have claimed 150pts+ of vehicles/lightinfantry every game.

They aren't great, but they are performing reliably.
They almost always hit their intended target. and if its a vehicle its dead.

>> No.22022456

The commander would get his invuln. You'd be looking at the section where a model takes its best save.

The second part, that's an iffy one that usually boils down to "go ask the Tournament Organizer."

What I've been doing (which is mostly wrong) is taking wounds against the closest batch of models with the same save until they've died off and we move on to the next batch of saves.

Another example is Reaver Jetbikes turboing over a unit to damge them. To properly randomize their hits (around 25 is average) as per the FAQ takes forever. It's significantly faster to use the method for screamers of tzeech and remove models closest to where they end up.

40k isn't the place to look if you want a game with a tight rules set and no grey area.

hmm... tell him to buy up Warhammer fantasy models and convert them to Beastmaster units. They're one of the best things in the DE codex, and they'd give him some speed and hitting power he's missing out on.

...man. I feel sorry for his Wyches.

>> No.22022478

For shooting hits you roll saves for the models closest to the firer.

if that is the 5+inv you roll as many dice as he has wounds left.

where it gets really silly, is that this happens for blast and flamer weapons too, you resolve against the models closest to you, regardless of what is actually hit.

>> No.22022493

Instant death is pretty nice, but you've gotta pick and choose your targets. Libbys are squishy, even if you toss terminator armor on them.

The codex entry is what matters most, not the model on the table. You'll get appreciated if they match, but GW is really loose on their modeling requirements.

I'm glad to hear that. I've also had a lot of luck with units packing Haywire Grenades lately.

>> No.22022513

This Looted Carnifex, for instance, plays as an Ork Deff Dread.

>> No.22022517

I've had chaos terminators that didn't have pistols but still had two weapons on the model getting extra attacks on me and being screwed out of my extra attack...

>> No.22022532

Yeah, he's traded out his Wyches for Kabs in the League and wants to eventually build Beastmasters. He can't really at the moment because of the models being sold how they are.

And boy, do the grey areas like to pop up.

>> No.22022552

Sounds like you've got a picky gaming group. No offense intended. Some play groups use more house rules or follow the rules less strictly than others.

The important thing in this hobby is to focus on having fun. Not to think about each time the vague rules have screwed you.

>> No.22022569


These make great Razorwing Flocks.


These make great Khymera.

Chaos Spawn make great Groetesques and clawed fiends.

All for a fraction of the finecast price GW wants for the official models.

>> No.22022579

Well it's not a gaming group so much as just 1 dude but yeah. Oh well though tonight's been very informative and you've been very helpful.

>> No.22022598

Thanks. It's all part of my evil plan.

In any case, I really should get some sleep. Got a final in 7 hours.

Until next time, pic related.

>> No.22022630

Sleep well and score well, our fine rules-laywering friend.

>> No.22022740

Any dude claiming his termies get extra attacks without 2nd CC weapon or pistol in the profile whilst the profile for say, grey hunters specifically says they has extra weapons and therefore attacks is just a cunt.

>> No.22022770

But in the case of a librarian or more specifically Turmiel, the librarian from dark vengeance, the force sword and pistol being in his wargear are what counts right? Seeing how he has his sword in one hand, his other hand raised to do a psychic attack, and books and scrolls there wouldn't have been much space to place a bolt pistol on him.

>> No.22022829

more dakka = better

>> No.22022915

the rules for poison mention (or at least used too) that when fighting something that regular poisons wouldn't work against they use something that would like say acid on robots. But mechanically it makes no difference.

>> No.22022936

>What I've been doing (which is mostly wrong) is taking wounds against the closest batch of models with the same save until they've died off and we move on to the next batch of saves.

actually thats exactly how you're meant to do it.

>> No.22022947

>where it gets really silly, is that this happens for blast and flamer weapons too, you resolve against the models closest to you, regardless of what is actually hit.

they did that to stop people "sniping" unit leaderss and special weapons guys with plasma cannons and flamers

>> No.22022964

>the force sword and pistol being in his wargear are what counts right?

>> No.22022992

I kinda get why they did that, but kinda wish they hadn't at the same time. Lets me put flamers close to front for assaulting, but also makes them harder to hit on the enemies side.

Also, how do you deal with mixed toughness? Say, a Thunderfire and a Techmarine?

>> No.22023046

You take the majority toughness. If its an equal number of each you use the higher one.

>> No.22023062

my friend said that if a space marine's plasma gun gets hot, he still gets an armor save against it, is this true?

>> No.22023067

So a Unit with units with toughness 3, 5, and 7, with one of each would use the 7?

>> No.22023076

You get your armor save against Gets Hot regardless. 'Least, that's how I learned it.

>> No.22023098


>> No.22023107

only if at least half of the models in that unit had T7

>> No.22023110

Hmn, I was being told to use the middle one in that case.

>> No.22023138

equal numbers of 3 different T. I don't think the rules cover that explicitly. But I don't think it can ever really be done anyway.

>> No.22023150


If there's one each of 3, 5 and 7 then what would it use?

>> No.22023167

Seven. I'm pretty sure that if there's no majority, even if you've got more than two toughness values in the squad, you use the highest.

>> No.22023189

So that it's easier to wound the higher toughness model and harder to wound the lower toughness models, that is.

>> No.22023353

>Nightwing Interceptor

God I want this to be in the common rules so badly.
Why won't Gedubs give the most fluffwise mobile race a goddamn flyer already?!

>> No.22023377

It's perfectly legal to take one - it's marked as appropriate for 40k in Imperial Armour: Aeronautica. Most people shouldn't have a problem with you using one. They're great fun.

>> No.22023400

I've been kicked out of a warhammer tournement in a GW store for having, and I'm qouting here, "A model they did not sell in the store" I pointed out how stupid that is, when FW have their offical lience, and they sell, in that store, books freaturing said models.

I simply can't take that chance with GeeDubs inbred rules again.

>> No.22023532

Thats our GW alright.

>> No.22023649

Sounds like you got a shitty GW. They're normally cool with anything GW or FW made.

>> No.22023668

Hell the local nid player uses a Heirodule as a Tyranofex all the time.

>> No.22023757


They said it was orders from HQ and there is no reasoning with GW staff.

I normally do my best not to play at GW stores, they have made it very clear that it's a show room to lure new players in, hell they are even kind of iffy about letting us paint there.

Thankfully there's a much, MUCH nicer hobby store nearby the GW, the problem there is, from time to time, you have to share the game hall (which is fairly big) with the Magic players, and oh lord, they are loud and I thought this was just name calling but they smell, a lot if they have a tourney. And they are arrogant as all hell, they seriously think they get first dips on everything, and would like nothing more than to kick the Warhammer crew out of the warhammer gaming hall, it's really sad.
And finally, there's my play group that is, honestly a lovely bunch, but in the heat of the game if you are winning thanks to a FW model, you damn sure they will call bullshit on said model.

>> No.22023933

>not using herculoids for all of your siege units

>> No.22023967

What the character is modeled with DOES NOT MATTER, AT ALL.

The ONLY THING that matters is what Wargear he has listed in his unit entry. A dude could be running around buck-ass naked with no gear and a pink strap-on, but if his Wargear list says he has Power Armor and a Sword+Pistol, then by god he has them regardless of what his model looks like.

>> No.22024017

Man, I want to learn whatever this game is just so I can bring in my old action figures and troll neckbeards.

I got batman, bikermice from mars, wolverine, herculoids, the works.

>> No.22024077

If this thread is alive when and I remember I'll upload my copy.

Alternatively this 2 second search seems to be the right pdf


>> No.22024132

It grants a cover save, but depending how fact you go is how good of a save you get.
For example a DEldar jetbike going flat out can get a 3+ cover save.
However anything that denies a cover save will deny the jink save.
Hell Brutes with 2 heavy flamers hurt.

>> No.22024139

When a Ork HQ or Nob uses a bosspole does the wound come from his weapon, or is it just a general wound?

>> No.22024159

Exception: If the unit in question has a "power weapon" as their wargear, you usually look at the model to find out whether it's a power sword, maul, axe or spear.
But if you aren't playing with assholes you can just tell them before you start the game "Hey, these guys are using power axes and not swords, okay?"

>> No.22024309

In most cases though those have been clarified in errata.

>> No.22024408

Huh, indeed they have. Never mind me then.

>> No.22026581

Thank you kind anon. With this to use now I'm just waiting on some cool new models to come out.

>> No.22026659

>games workshop

>> No.22029048

This reminds me of the Wound generated by the Regimental and Platoon Standards. Is it an auto-wound even if you don't score a wound otherwise?

>> No.22029128

It's one additional wound counted towards close combat results.

Even if you did not cause any wounds, you still count as having caused one wound for the purposes of determining who won the combat.

>> No.22029137

Cool, had it right.

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