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21882806 No.21882806 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

How you can we introduce personality and individualism to the Nids without ruining them, /tg/?

I suggest we bring back the Zoats and introduce a breakaway faction of the Nids. Hive Fleets that broke away from the Hivemind due to Warp shenanigans, Necron dickery, or whatever. These Hive Fleets will seek their own agendas and can take interact with others races with more ways than just nomming them.

>> No.21882868

Well, I guess I would maybe introduce a new form of 'stealer, or something. Many of the races the Tyranids have encountered in this galaxy have been highly intelligent, speech capable, civilised (as in, have a civilisation of some sort), etc.. Maybe the next form of adaptation the hive mind could work on is a more intelligent, independent form of Genestealer. It can communicate, has a limited personality etc., all the better to infiltrate with.

>> No.21882883

no that's retarded

>> No.21882891

I mean, they're intelligent enough as it is, and I believe telepathic to some degree, but I'm talking even more advanced.

>> No.21882905

Do you really want to retcron the 'nids as well?

>> No.21882927

Here's an idea.

Not every race needs speshul snowflake characters and autonomy for their units.

Necrons were good as cyber zombies, the lords needed a bit more personality maybe but the rank and file were good

Nids are incomprehensible horrors from beyond the stars, they don't follow any understandable logic, they don't want anything but to feed

This sort of shit is what ruined necrons and it doesn't need to ruin nids as well

>> No.21882953


You can't. Unless you want to be Newnids like the Newcrons.

>> No.21882964

>These Hive Fleets will seek their own agendas and can take interact with others races with more ways than just nomming them

This flashlight can interact with other things in more ways than illuminating them!

This flesh-eating virus can interact with other things in more ways than consuming them!

This OP can interact with /tg/ in more ways than shitposting!

>> No.21882985
File: 899 KB, 1920x1080, Swarmlord.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It would be cool to see the Swarmlord lead his ''people'' in rebellion against the Hivemind.

>> No.21883009

They don't need to. Necrons did, because otherwise they were just metal Nids.

>> No.21883023


Ward please go.

>> No.21883027
File: 228 KB, 448x675, Swarmlord.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Frankly, I think the current fluff for Hive Tyrants and the Swarmlord has already crossed the line. The whole thing about regrowing specific Hive Tyrants with specific memories doesn't even make sense to me.

>> No.21883029

WAHHH I Wants dem cultists back that nobody used,

>> No.21883031

>Not every race needs speshul snowflake characters and autonomy for their units.

Yes, yes, they do. An army of faceless mooks/monsters isn't interesting or fun to play as.

And also GW disagrees with your statement. They added the super special Swarmlord and the Hive Tyrant of Dagon. So the ground work is there but only needs one more push from GW.

>> No.21883038


That's impossible, idiot. The Swarmlord cannot respawn unless the Hive Mind wills it.

>> No.21883049

>An army of faceless mooks/monsters isn't interesting or fun to play as

Then you shouldn't play that army and leave it to the people who DO want to play a faceless horde.

>> No.21883056

The more strong-willed Necrons had personality. They just needed to expand on that.

>> No.21883060


the horror within nids' exists because we (as imperials for example) cannot reason with them and cannot empathise with them in anyway. Their true collectivist swarm society is also something that is truely alien to all the other species (inc tau)

Why attempt to erode that OP? The fact they are that way, ironically is the closest thing they have to speshul snowflakeiness.

Tl;dr: nids gon' nid, leave them be. Im glad you don't write for geedub

>> No.21883070

This is where the Warp shenanigans, Necron Dickery, and ''Enter reason here'' come in.

>> No.21883077

>dude playing the wrong army

>> No.21883118

You can have all the junk and allow a room for personality and individualism. So what's the problem?

Diversity is great, you know. Eventually, the Tyranid main them will stagnant and get worn out.

>> No.21883121

I play nids
I love them for the simple fact that my army is a faceless swarm of horrors that crawled out of whichever asshole of the universe holds such terrors as them and they are eating their way across known space

If I wanted to have a snowflake army I would play one of the dozens of marine chapters available or eldar

You are just obviously playing the wrong force for what you want with this game

>> No.21883156

I remember recently when Nid players complained about their inability to ally with anyone.

I guess there is a big cloud of hypocrisy floating around here.

>> No.21883167

>An army of faceless mooks/monsters isn't interesting or fun to play as.
1/10 at best pls go

>> No.21883186


If you've seen the Games Day coverage, you'll have noticed that the Genestealer Cults look like they're about to resurface. So 'nids WILL have an ally.

>> No.21883190

Well, it's true.

Or else GW wouldn't tried their darnest to give the Nids a character without ruining their theme.

>> No.21883208

delete your thread

>> No.21883212

>Eventually, the Tyranid main them will stagnant and get worn out.

No it won't. Tyranids have existed since Rogue Trader, you stupid newbie faggot.

>You can have all the junk and allow a room for personality and individualism. So what's the problem?

No, you can't. If you have any idea of what the Hive Mind is or how it works you'd see why it's impossible to have Tyranids with personality, because that would mean that the entire race is being enslaved and suppressed by its own collective...personalities? Yeah, you're an idiot.

>> No.21883219


Or maybe because if they didn't give you SC's you'd bitch about it.

>> No.21883221

I don't see that happening.

>> No.21883247


There are rumours of Genestealer Cults becoming an allied list, and pics of a Genestealer Magos from Games Day UK.

And Genestealer Cults introduce personality and individualism to the Nids without ruining them! OP's problem is solved!
Can we go now?

>> No.21883292

they don't really want Gene stealer cults though.

they want IG allies.

>> No.21883327

The Tyranids don't need personality, they have enough variety and background to get on by reputation and aesthetic alone, I think. They are popular for being scary, after all. (or cute, in the case of girls)

Of course, that'd be hard, so you might as well just give them a tragic backstory and wacky personalities and call it a day.

>> No.21883331
File: 175 KB, 900x1165, Nids.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Nope, the problem is not solved. Not yet.

The problem is that Genestealers aren't proper nids. These guys are.

Hive tyrants and higher nids are self aware and intelligent but they are slaved to Hivemind.

introduce something that will sever the connection between the Hivemind and the Tyrant and that's it a free Tyranid is created. Nothing is impossible, the fluff can be re-written and changed, you know.

>Yeah, you're an idiot.

And you're stubborn and close minded.

Yes, we will all bitch.

Because nobody wants to play with a faceless mook!

>> No.21883350

The Tyranids don't have the same problem as the Necrons, because last I checked they at least have a LOT more variety in units and options as the Necrons.

Maybe they could drop some more hints as to their backstory and origins if they really need something for fanboys to talk about.

>> No.21883362

>introduce something that will sever the connection between the Hivemind and the Tyrant and that's it a free Tyranid is created. Nothing is impossible, the fluff can be re-written and changed, you know

This has already happened in the fluff, and the only thing the Tyrant sought to do was reconnect to the Hive Mind.

If you're going to argue, fucking educate yourself. So sick of arguing with dumb shits who don't even know any fluff. At least go for 1/2, ideally 0/2, but full on 2/2? Get the fuck out.

>> No.21883366

>Because nobody wants to play with a faceless mook!

Then don't play Tyranids, you jackass.

>> No.21883378


What do YOU want to see the Tyranids become then?

Enlighten us please.

>> No.21883383

>This has already happened in the fluff, and the only thing the Tyrant sought to do was reconnect to the Hive Mind.

Great, then write about the Hive Tyrant that doesn't want to return Hivemind and desires to go its own way.

There it's done.

>> No.21883392

>I'm wrong and there's proof that I'm wrong but I'm still right

This is you.

>> No.21883403


No no, YOU write that because that's what YOU want. The rest of the people will enjoy their normal Tyranids. Don't shit all over our cake just because you like to eat shit. Take a slice and then shit on it and eat it yourself.

>> No.21883409

Mind if I ask a stupid question?
'Nids are supposed to be half insect, half space-dinosaur-things, right?
So do they have an exoskeleton or endoskeleton?

>> No.21883422


>> No.21883439

The question here. It is not if its impossible or not. It's whether if they should or should not. Argh...you're impossible.

Bringing up malleable fluff that can be changed at the drop of hat into this is kinda silly.

You can have the Cake. I just want a small slice of it for my own, you greedy bastards.

>> No.21883485

No, you don't want a slice of the cake. You want to change the fucking recipe.

There are plenty of other types of cake on offer. Stop trying to change this one, plenty of others there to try.

Stop shitposting.

>> No.21883515
File: 534 KB, 250x144, 1354057395418.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

OP: You dont want to play army of faceless mooks
anons: but some of us do!
OP: no you dont

>> No.21883603

yes the additions are in opposition to the current characteristics

>tired themes
In a universe where the plot rarely advances and has square headed jocks running around in power armour (see every game released in the last 10 years) The 'theme' of the nids' is the last thing we need to worry about.

>> No.21883608
File: 77 KB, 469x437, trollcron.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

But even with rebel Tyranids, you can still have your army like it was in the old fluff, it's exactly the same!

At least, that's the argument Newcron supporters use.

>> No.21883645

im no expert on necron fluff, but were as biologically connected as the nids are? It literally makes no sense, they are essentially one animal.

>> No.21883705

Mindless hordes all connected by their slavery to the C'tan whom they wanted to feed delicious souls.

Practically the same.

>> No.21883729

OP, I want you to do something for me. I want you to go out, buy some gaunts, assemble/paint them, and then start shoving them up your ass one by one until you realize how fucking retarded you are.

>> No.21883822
File: 781 KB, 622x838, Final_Report_(Necrons).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Some Lords retained their intellect, but still served the C'tan. I don't think it was really clear whether they were made loyal by the conversion into metal bodies, or if they followed the star-gods by choice. I like to think both: the leaders who willingly pledged allegiance to the C'tan remained as they were, while those who resisted either had loyalty 'programmed' into them, or their minds were wiped completely.

>It literally makes no sense, they are essentially one animal.

That's kind of changed. The further up the chain you go, the more the creatures are able to think for themselves. Hive Tyrants are individuals whose minds, memories and character are put into new bodies when they die, and TEH SWORMLARD is the bestest smartest Tyranid ever. Not a fan of it myself, but that's the way things are.

>> No.21883832

>Hive Tyrants are individuals whose minds, memories and character are put into new bodies when they die, and TEH SWORMLARD is the bestest smartest Tyranid ever. Not a fan of it myself, but that's the way things are

So? If you start with a blank slate and pile experience on it, experience that was wholly guided and influenced by the Hive Mind might I remind you, how is it suddenly becoming an unique individual?

It's like calling a branch of a tree an animal.

>> No.21883986
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Hive Tyrants are self-aware but still connected to and slaved to the Hive Mind. Anything they experience, the Hive Mind should experience. But when a Tyrant dies, it is for some reason necessary to imbue a new one with that same experience. The Hive Mind logically should know what the dead Tyrant knew, yet it doesn't. Not until it creates a new Tyrant and grants it the consciousness of the old one.

At least, this is my interpretation of the following segment from the codex:

>Unlike many other Tyranid creatures, Hive Tyrants are incredibly intelligent and completely self-aware. Whilst they are still slaved to the gestalt consciousness of the Hive Mind, they are permitted far wider latitude in achieving their goals, and can even learn from their mistakes. This goes some way to explain why the Tyranids can rarely be defeated the same way twice. Should a Hive Tyrant be slain, the Hive Mind can simply grow a replacement, imbuing it with the same experiences, character and knowledge as its predecessor. Such is the way of the Tyranids – the strong endure, and the weak perish. Fortunately for the rest of the galaxy, this does not lead to infallibility of purpose. Hive Tyrants cannot oversee every quarter of a battle and are as prone to being overwhelmed as any other commander. However, it does render a Hive Tyrant practically immortal. No matter how many times a Hive Tyrant is killed, sooner or later it will always come back.

>> No.21884037

>Unlike many other Tyranid creatures, Hive Tyrants are incredibly intelligent and completely self-aware. Whilst they are still slaved to the gestalt consciousness of the Hive Mind

So basically the same as the Oldcron Lords. Just change the hivemind to the C'tan.

>> No.21884131

Have them team up with the Blood Angels to fight the Necrons.

Also, get a Hive Tyrant to say BWAHAHAHAHA! at some point.

Job done.

>> No.21884186

I've always preferred the Orkz for exactly this reason. The Nids always seemed just kind of bland to me. One all consuming mindless hoard eating and destroying everything seems silly to me. I know it's supposed to be scary, but what happens when they eat everything in existence and then starve to death? Or they finally meet something in the galaxy that can stop their shit? Two outcomes for their grand scheme just makes them sort of... lackluster? Not really the word I'd like to use, but maybe you'll get my meaning.

But Orkz, even if they were to wipe out everything else in the universe, they'd still just fight each other. And they'd be clever, and personable while doing it. I really wish I had the right word for Nids...

>> No.21884199

>The Hive Mind logically should know what the dead Tyrant knew, yet it doesn't.

Where are you getting "yet it doesn't?" Nowhere in your quotation does it say that.

>> No.21884205

>Hive Tyrants are self-aware but still connected to and slaved to the Hive Mind

Do you know what the Hive Mind is? And how can you be enslaved to it when you are literally born by it and then join it?

>> No.21884236

It was dull, they were only shadows of their former selves and shackled by 2scary and master of melodrama.

>> No.21884243

Oldcrons weren't "Ah! Scary!" they were more like inevitable doom and hopeless despair scary.

>> No.21884246

>Oldcrons weren't "Ah! Scary!" they were more like inevitable doom and hopeless despair scary.

No, they were tryhard scary.

>> No.21884254


What's so scary about T-800's with laser guns?

>> No.21884262

Nothing really.

>> No.21884263

Just reiterating: THIS.

>> No.21884280
File: 55 KB, 640x480, necron_warrior.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You tell me.

>> No.21884283

>What's so scary about T-800's with laser guns?

What's not scary about a T-800?

>> No.21884303

The lack of allies is a massive balance problem.

>> No.21884324

This is reminiscent of the push back to the Necron retconing.

>> No.21884336

If it does have access to the knowledge, then what's the point in pouring it all back into a single body?

It's the wording used in the codex. A Hive Tyrant has its own consciousness, which is subordinate to the consciousness of the Hive.

>> No.21884361


So a Hive Tyrant is its own separate being.

>> No.21884362


So is a gaunt or a genestealer.

>> No.21884386

Oh /tg/, you're feeling feisty today!

I admit I don't entirely see that this is a problem that needs fixing in this manner. I generally like the current Tyranids, though I certainly would be down with Genestealer Cults being more of a thing.

However I can see why someone might want to have an easier time figuring out how to make their army play nice with someone else's. So uh...I dunno. GW should do a reverse-steal and fold in some more Zerg qualities into the Tyranids? :x

>> No.21884400

Have you ever seen a flock of birds, moving and swooping as one, always together, but each made up of individuals?

Think of the hive mind as an actual conciousness made up of the impulses driving the flock, or swarm.

>> No.21884405

You're better than that.

>> No.21884411
File: 957 KB, 375x211, 1354176745474.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

fuck that if the little ones want starcraft they can go play it if they want this they can learn to accept the entire purpose of the nids and do the universe a favor and actually try reading this arcane concept called a book. its Arch tech very rare hard to come by. generally only the ones of strong mind use it

>> No.21884938

Just for TL;DR
No, Tyranids are a beast race similar to ants. a shitload of mindless individuals that together to create a single conciousness.
This conciousness wants only the survival and evolution of itself - the Tyranids.
A Hive Tyrant is the only thing born with knowledge of previous tyrants to learn from mistakes - the Hive Mind itself knows everything the previous one did, and is using the tyrant to regulate that massive amount of information to the lesser hordes that are unable to process such information. (Which is why the entire swarm doesn't just know what the tyrant knows, as individuals they're to stupid since they're... well, animals.

The Swarmlord and its autonomy is like a leash and though it doesn't make much sense at first consider this: How often do space marine characters beat the odds and kick chaos in the dick by straying from their codex astartes, if only somewhat. The Swarmlord's autonomy exists for the hive mind to do something that the tyranids wouldn't normally do. (It made more sense to me in my head)

>> No.21884956

We don't.
Just because it made the Necrons better doesn't mean it'll make the nids better.
It won't.

>> No.21885816

May i ask what everyone's problem with the new necrons is, I've been playing necrons since 3rd and I actually like the new revamp.

>> No.21885839

They can't handle personality.

>> No.21885861

It was a pretty big change in tone from the old fluff; naturally some people are going to be bothered by it - and that's before you factor in who wrote the codex. Though on that note, many people consider the Newcron dex to have redeemed Ward. As if he ever needed redeeming.

>> No.21885880

The shiny silver and green spess skeletons aren't 2spooky enough for them anymore.

>> No.21885895

They gave some personality to Necrons and look how fucked they are.

>> No.21885909

Better than ever?

>> No.21885932

I wasn't talking about their rules nor army list but fluff.

>> No.21885935

I still cant fathom how Ward can screw up SM and Gk (although i enjoyed a lot of GK) and then come out with the necrons which is one of the better codices that I've read.

>> No.21885941
File: 134 KB, 758x643, fordris.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.21885943

So was I.

>> No.21885945

Well, yeah... Some (arguably most) old-cron players liked them not because of the stupid C'tan shit, but because the old Necrons were implacable terminator robots out to harvest souls and kill every last mother fucker in the galaxy. There was a certain horror-element to them of 'you can't reason with them, they will just keep coming and hunt you down'. Now the Necrons are just a bunch of old-codgers in metal bodies, twirling their mono-filament mustaches like saturday morning cartoon villains. Yeah the old fluff of the C'Tan being behind everything was lame. But I never gave 2 shits about Nightbringer or Deceiver. I just like the old cinematic horror that the necrons were.

>> No.21885947
File: 15 KB, 332x394, 1352566086579.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>pic related

For me, personally, I don't like that their powerlevel was destroyed. They used to be like the nids, an unstoppable force that, if the plot ever moved, would rape the setting six ways to sunday. Now their empire is fractured into dynasties that squabble with each other, their space tech superiority has evaporated, and their gods are glorified action figures. Admittedly, this is just sour grapes over loss of fanwank.

At least I still have nids, though. And people like OP to call horrendous dick-mongling idiots.

>> No.21885951

YOU don't want to play a faceless mook, I play nids and I love it. Nothing is better than 30 undistinguishable gaunts devouring the board

>> No.21885970

I also used to really like that there was something out there who's base infantry was tougher than marines. They used to be 18pts a model for a reason.

>> No.21885988

Immortals are base infantry now.
T4, Sv 3+ and RP.

>> No.21885991

Exactly my point, Anon.

>> No.21885993

>Because nobody wants to play with a faceless mook!

Not true. The players who initially gravitated towards armies like Necrons and Nids, enjoyed the faceless cinematic horror that they were. It appealed to the fanbase that really liked the "faceless robot death" or the "unstoppable swarm of bio-engineered killing machines". The problem is those players have been largely ignored, and 'character' is being inserted into factions that probably should have remained devoid of any. Likewise other character-heavy factions have begun to have it stripped from them...

>> No.21886024

>So sick of arguing with dumb shits who don't even know any fluff.

You're seriously complaining about players who don't know or write their own fluff, in a setting where nothing is written in stone, retcons occur on a constant basis, and players are free (indeed, they're encouraged) to make up their own fluff? Really? Next you'll be saying that my no-nonsense "Nid-Hunting Goff Warband" of Orks is 'bad-wrong-fun', and that I should stop enjoying things the way I want.

>> No.21886041

>How often do space marine characters beat the odds and kick chaos in the dick by straying from their codex astartes

All the time. Because marines are just pure dev-wank.

>> No.21886058

Yeah, the Immortals dropped down to be the Necron Warriors of old. It's kinda disheartening to me. I personally really like Immortals as a 'tougher the hell' elite choice, with T5 base ans WBB (now RP).

>> No.21886080

>Yeah, the Immortals dropped down to be the Necron Warriors of old.

They've got better guns, and are a point cheaper.

>> No.21886112

I will never forgive Ward for what he did to Chaos Daemons in Fantasy

>> No.21886240

Exactly. So the self awareness of the hive tyrants and autonomy for the Swarmlord are strictly strategic. I don't think either is something to build individual characteristics from. And that's the way I, personally, prefer it.
Ergo; OP is a fag.

>> No.21886253

Oh god, what did he do to them?

>> No.21886287

Wrote them some pretty powerful rules, I guess.

>> No.21886369

Here's an idea.
Nids fuck up and create powerful Psyker Nids using orc genes.
These Nid orcs identify as orcs and break away.
To eliminate this new threat, the hivemind creates a semi-sentient being to wipe all of the NidOrcs out.
Orcs get some decent units, Nids get some decent units, both factions have better fluff.

>> No.21886396

Sounds bad.

>> No.21886433

It's a bit more than that....

He bork them... Badly. It was atrocious. First, a little backstory is required.

During 7e Fantasy, the power ramp up was fairly moderate. Dwarves came first, got a decent book. Orcs and Goblins came next, and got a horrifically underpowered book where any given Orc or Goblin unit had a 1 in 3 chance of sitting still or acting on it's own. Empire came next, and were fairly balanced. High Elves were after that, and a bit more powerful thanks to Always Strikes First. Dark Elves had Hatred: Everything, and a brutal Ward/Invulnerable Save where you rolled equal to or under strength of the attack that wounded you (usually combined with a 2+ save lord). Vampire Counts were the first real power ramp-up, and featured regenerating heavy infantry wight deathstars. Then came Daemons.

The Daemon book took the gradual (expected) power creep and threw it all out the window. Daemons, like Undead, cause Fear and were Unbreakable (suffering savable wounds if they lost combat). That much was pretty standard. However the book featured some laughably unbalanced elements. Khorne dominated in combat (not surprising), and had tons of dispel dice and/or magic resistance. Nurgle never fucking died. Tzeentch featured every Horror unit as a wizard of level based upon their numbers divided by 10 (round down, max lvl 4). Slaanesh had spells that literally moved your opponent's models for him, such as crashing chariots into woods (killing it). The tournament scenes exploded with Daemon armies in Fantasy, and they took the majority of the top-10 spots for years after the book's release. Nothing after was anywhere near it's power level. 8th ed helped rebalance them, but 8th suffers from the "everything is random" problem.

>> No.21886446

>Nids fuck up and create powerful Psyker Nids using orc genes.

Nids already used the Orc genes to create spore-mines and Biovores.

>> No.21886460

Oh please, VCs were just as bad and they were both followed the same year by Dark Elves which were also broken as all fuck.

>> No.21886484
File: 64 KB, 600x450, 1264295791570.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>How you can we introduce personality and individualism to the Nids without ruining them, /tg/?

Am I the only one who is disappointed in the 'Nids expressly because they are already too fucking individualized and (GODDAMNIT WHY) anthropomorphized? Goddamn take some lessons from Lovecraft you lazy faggots GW.

Can we never have a faceless/non-individualistic race? If you want individualism go play one of the other ones that have it. Or make a custom army, that's cool too. Why introduce all kinds of bullshit that completely ruins the aesthetic? They already did it to the Necrons.

>> No.21886556

>Can we never have a faceless/non-individualistic race?

Wouldn't the faceless race fit better as a background faction rather than player faction?

>They already did it to the Necrons.

And they became a better for it. Using them as an example doesn't help your case.

>> No.21886617


At first, I personally didn't mind daemons too much. But I wasn't playing frequently enough to really notice the power ramp-up. The first game I played against them was against a mono-Tzeentch list where my friend told me point blank "bring your nastiest list possible". So, as a Skaven clan:Skryre player, I did just that. I loaded up with 2 Warlock Engineers, a Grey Seer, and massive blocks of clanrats designed to soak a charge, and thus allow me to blaze into combat with all manner of warmachine death. When the list rolled well, it pretty much face-rolled armies in mass. It's biggest threat was always itself, which is why I generally toned it down for fun games by removing the Grey Seer. In the game against the Tzeentch daemons I played, my rolls were on fire. I got an Irresistible Force off with Plague, was regularly scoring 13+ hits on Ratling Guns, Warpfire Thrower hit every time dead-on and never missfired (a rarity), Warp Lightning Cannon's range and strength values were exactly what I needed. And I was butchered, to a model. There wasn't even any tactical outmaneuvering on his part. It was literally 'move forward, cast a fuck-ton of spells, keep casting more spells, generate more power dice to cast yet more spells, still casting spells on my turn, move forward and eventually charge... still casting more spells'. there were no maneuvers to his plan, it was a full-frontal assault, no flanking. All his models were at leasta 4++ ward save, with 3++ on bigger ones. It was probably the least fun game I've ever had.

A friend finally beat him (after he won numerous small regional tournaments and face-rolled every non-daemon army he played against), by bringing a max-dispel pool Dwarf army designed solely on shutting down his magic phase. And even then it was close.

While that was arguably the worst list I saw, other daemon ones were bad in their own way.

>> No.21886643

They became generic. Functional mediocrity is inferior to a failed attempt at legitimate creativity. The original Necrons had something going for them, it just didn't work right. The Newcrons are fucking SPACE EMPIRE #874272: NOW WITH REDDIT JOKES.

>> No.21886652

>let's give the players ability to make their own necron army unique


>> No.21886653

>Not generic

Killer robots #930233939393. Or metal Tyranids.

>> No.21886676

I never said Dark Elves and Vampires weren't also bad. Both were certainly nasty armies to face, when played well. But Vampires pretty much revolved around a beefy lord in a regenerating Wight unit. And only a few armies had no access to fire (I used plenty). They were a hard fight, but not impossible. Dark Elves were brittle and fragile, relying on sacrificing warriors for power dice, the reverse-save Lord in heavy armor on Cold-One, and generally out-maneuvering you. I had numerous very close games against Dark Elves. I never had one 'close' game against Daemons.

There was a very good reason why the GT a year after the Daemon Army Book was released had 7 out of 10 of it's top-finalists be Daemon armies. The remaining three were Dark Elves, Vampire Counts, and Empire.

>> No.21886682

>>let's give the players ability to make their own Tyranid army unique

How about that?

Or is what good for the Necrons and everybody else too good for the Nids?

>> No.21886692

There only needs to be one "mindless murder machine" faction. After all there are far greater varieties of personality than absence of personality.

>> No.21886701
File: 160 KB, 1063x752, The_Tyrant__Carl_by_Brightblacksun.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Why does this thread even exist? Why would you come up with such an idea in the first place? It's like you don't even get the whole point of nids...

>> No.21886707

I actually loved the old Necrons simply because they were a faceless murder-machine army of unstoppable terminators. I can't stand the new ones with their empires run by senile old codgers. I liked them for the cinematic horror effect, similar to what made the first two terminator movies good for their time.

>> No.21886715

Nids are 'Aliens' style faceless murder machine. The (old) Necrons were the 'Terminator' style faceless murder machine.

>> No.21886724

They were just as stoppable as the Newcrons. And the Terminator movies were hardly horror, they were actions movies primarily.

>> No.21886728

We don't need more than one. And in fact the Terminators did have a face.

>> No.21886749

True, not necessarily 'Horror'. But they were traditional monster-movie action/terror, and had plenty of nightmare fuel in them. Looking back and watching them now, the out-dated cinematography and special effects makes it more of an 'action' movie. But there is a certain horror to the concept of a soulless death-machine out to eradicate you. And seriously.. T-1000 scared the fuck out of me back then.

>> No.21886752

Problem is that Terminator has never been about faceless murder machines. It was about Arnold being awesome and saying robot stuff in an Austrian accent. The premise was flawed from the start.

>> No.21886763

They didn't seem nearly as stoppable as newcrons. Newcron warriors twitch and fall to the ground randomly without even being shot.

And the Terminator is still a monster, so, it's horror in that regard.

>> No.21886771

They did. But you're being too literal in the term 'faceless'. By faceless, I meant the definition involving the subject (<necrons>) lacking in personal identity or distinction.

>> No.21886774

>There only needs to be one "mindless murder machine" faction.

Why? Does the fact two faction out of a dozen are that way actually hurt your setting? Would you rather have a pretty good faceless murdering faction or a garbage one which you can "relate to"?

>> No.21886785

Uh, yeah it was. Only now when you look back on it does it come across as "watch Arnold be awesome and say stuff in a funny accent".

Hell the original Terminator didn't even have him talk much at all, iirc. It's been awhile, but I can't even remember a scene where he says anything.

>> No.21886789

>But you're being too literal in the term 'faceless'. By faceless, I meant the definition involving the subject (<necrons>) lacking in personal identity or distinction.

I'm not being literal. But Arnold really seeped into the roll, they didn't not have a personality, they were big, tough, take no shit Austrian kill machines.

>> No.21886792

There also only needs to be one army of loyalist power-armored super-soldiers.

>> No.21886804

>Why? Does the fact two faction out of a dozen are that way actually hurt your setting? Would you rather have a pretty good faceless murdering faction or a garbage one which you can "relate to"?

I don't need to relate, but two mono-task: kill factions is really uneccessary.

I agree, but that's not the subject at hand.

>> No.21886817

That's the second movie you're referring to, where they gave him more of a defining role. Ignoring the fact the protagonist in the second film, the antagonist elements of the 1st and 2nd are very much "mindless, soulles, killing machines". The first time they gave any of them any character, was the sequel. And a lot of that is due to his interaction with John.

On a side note, there is no Terminator 3 or 4 movies.

>> No.21886825

Make your nid army unique with paint scheme or modifying the models. One guy made a phyrexian themed hive fleet. Every unit looked like badass flesh and metal.
Think of it as the hive fleet ate a bunch of worlds high in metallics.
There's also a volcanic-themed nid fluff thing on 1d4chan.

You want unique nids? Make unique nids. Mine are paper-themed. and I'll make my tervigon a xerox machine.

>> No.21886849

>Your clothes. Give them to me. Now.

C'mon, that's a classic from the first one.

>> No.21886851

Not necessarily. Each mono-task kill faction represents a different kind of 'man vs monster' element. Nids are the bio-engineered animal killing-beasts that are doing what they do for survival/dominance. Necrons *were* the completely unapproachable intelligent killing-machine that is doing what it does because you are alive and it's programming prefers that you were not.

While similar, they are two different styles of the 'man vs monster' theme.

>> No.21886866

I enjoyed the Christian Bale movie thank you very much.

Though I felt robbed of skull-fields and laser guns.

>> No.21886868

Both Necrons and Nids were just looking for food for their over beings. Both were legion. Both were showing up out of nowhere. Necrons were just metal Tyranids.

>> No.21886870
File: 26 KB, 214x218, 1328274693842.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Have Mat Ward do the codex. He will bring back the Genestealer Cults and Zoats.

I wish Mat Ward would had made the CSM codex. ;_;

>> No.21886873

It's been a long time since I saw the first movie, but I distinctly remember Arnold not speaking in at least the vast majority of the scenes. That line you mention is in the second, when he walks naked into the bar. Yeah, it's classic. But it's not necessarily character beyond Austrian accent.

>> No.21886874

>I wish Mat Ward would had made the CSM codex
We all do.
We all do.

>> No.21886885

Good for you. I couldn't stand it, personally.

>> No.21886905

>That line you mention is in the second, when he walks naked into the bar.

No, that was brought back for the second because it was so popular in the first. In the second he gets silly sunglasses too.

>> No.21886938

No, they weren't. Again, two very distinct sub-genres of the 'man vs monster' theme. Nids are animals, seeking to devour and survive. Necrons were killer robots, following almost every known man vs robot theme in the history of science fiction (exception being the Asimov plot involving his classic plot of 3-Laws and how a seemingly infallible fail-safe ultimately fails).

>> No.21886940

I think the glasses were 3.

>> No.21886952

>It's been a long time since I saw the first movie,

>It's been a long time since I saw the first movie,

I was not saying you're wrong.

>> No.21886958

They weren't. He got the sunglasses in 2, though he lost them about mid-way.

>> No.21886960

He still makes a few funnies.

>> No.21886967

I liked T4 much more then the very shitty T3 movie with beta John Connor and the silly supermodel antagonist running around in designer clothes instead of blending in. At least T4 brought back the evil Arnold from the first movie.

>> No.21886970

Have the three hive fleets develop minor variants? (I hesitate to call them "mutations")

Hive Fleet Behemoth might develop more horns, spines, and thorns along their carapace.

Leviathan could have a more aquatic feel, more sleek, webbed hands (like the original nids), stuff like that.

>> No.21886993

Yeah. So does the T-1000.

Still, point stands that both antagonists from the first and second movie are lacking significantly in character, with the emphasis being pushed towards "this is a robot killing machine that will never stop trying to kill you."

>> No.21887012

Nope. Just different color schemes.

Like most non-marine sub-faction variants, GW pretty much stripped them of any difference.

>> No.21887028

But they weren't horrifying, they were fun.

>> No.21887030

If Mat Ward writes it he will probably keep them the way they are but bring back a lot of retro stuff.

>> No.21887038

Nid fleets never had any table top difference.

>> No.21887069

I think Arnold turned in a very good performance as a stone-faced killer with no level of empathy. It's probably his best role.

>> No.21887088

There are two aspects of terminator movies (1&2). One: infiltrator (the robot trying to act like a human) and unstoppable, souless, hunterkiller not even trying to act like a human. Oldcrons were like the latest. It was great concept. C'tans of course were and still are plain silly, but oldcrons were actually great. And Necrons aren't like Tyrannids in terms of faceless shit. Aliens were ultimate surviving entities, readyto do anything to survive, while terminators were unstoppable and giving zero shit about themselves

>> No.21887119

The Tyranids give no fucks about themselves. They hurl themselves at you to make you expend ammunition.

>> No.21887139

Yeah, hence me suggesting the possibility of them gaining them.

And giving a (very minor) purpose to all the biomorph bits for their kits which arn't used in the modern edition.

>> No.21887144

I think it's one of the few armies in 40k with suicide bombers as well.

>> No.21887177

They didn't. But there were units that were described as having been around after later waves (i.e. Tyrant Guard, based off Marines). But with GW's push towards removing the differences/character between sub-factions, all that no longer matters. If they were to add distinction and variations to the Nids, the differences between Hive Fleets would have been a good start, even if kept minimal and based solely around USR.

>> No.21887178

They really shouldn't. Tyranid are supposed to adapt a lot, they shouldn't be pidgeon holed into "this one's got lots of horns" or whatever.

>> No.21887182

It's not always like that - when Tyrannids are losing, they adapt and start to save their troops, like in Octavius system, when they had to rebuild their strenght. And when their connect with hive mind is broken, they revert to a wild state.

Necrons without orders just stand and do shit, like a statue.

>> No.21887206

Nid instincts usually make them kill things as well. And when things were going badly for the oldcrons, they totally pulled out rather than come at you again in a smarter manner like the Nids.

>> No.21887212

It could still be tastefully done with different USRs representing how each fleet has diverged from the others.

>> No.21887224

Well true, but despite that the hive fleets do have the occasional variation in structure or format, such as Behemoth apparently thinking the bigger the creature the better, and loading up on monstrous creatures.

>> No.21887241

But the fleets learn from each other, they should be able to change as the situation suits them. Not Behemoth r tough, Kraken r angry, Leviathan r snap shot at full BS or such.

>> No.21887259

Pretty much this... Behemoth was canonically known for going "bigger is better", while Leviathan is all about unending waves of crap. K

>> No.21887297

iirc, it was said somewhere that each fleet operates on it's own accord, and the only time they learn from each other is when hive fleets fight each other and the loser's genetic material is added to the winner's.

>> No.21887440

Genestealer cults of the olde style
Isolated fleets
Zoats are a distant, but not impossible option.

>> No.21887474

Chaos Nids.

>> No.21887513

couldn't nid allies be introduced through the Cortex leech? just models them onto the head of allies?


>> No.21887602
File: 2.47 MB, 1191x1750, 92.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Oldcron fluff had the infiltration aspect as well, in the form of the Deceiver and its Necron and human followers.

inb4 bawww taufeets

>> No.21887620

That's to test which is better, wargames of a sort.
The Hivemind knows it all, it's why each Hive Fleet rries different tactics. Behemoth focused all it's critter in one point, Kraken had several tendrils, leviathan approached from a different vector.

>> No.21887703
File: 49 KB, 600x436, Nids 53.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You have any pics of the Phyrexian hive fleet? I'd be interested to see.

>> No.21887709

Jormungandr relied upon burrowers.

>> No.21887949

The Hivemind was a C'tan all along.

>> No.21888059

genestealer cult, then?
i played stealer cult in 2e, back when a stealer was

7 0 6 4 1 7 4 10

rather than

6 0 4 4 1 6 2 10

a load of them piling out of a rhino was terrifying, hybrids were decent too if armoured properly and given bolt pistols / flamers. allied imp guard cultists gave long range support

>> No.21888255

They are MUST. I kept my army for so long, can't wait to see them in action on new shiny rules!

>> No.21888276

>The Endless Swarm


>> No.21888323

inb4 Robin Cruddace strikes again

>> No.21888731
File: 57 KB, 600x506, Carnifex2_lato.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It's old and on warpshadow, look up Phyrexia.
And here's the person's Old one Eye or 'Rust Avatar'

>> No.21888766

Who the fuck is Robin Cruddace?

>> No.21888829


>> No.21888840

Doesn't this whole concept subvert the fundamental core of what the Nids are?

>> No.21888844

We only want ig allies because without specific stats for cultists using ig makes the most sense to counts as cultists.

>> No.21888970

Because a hive tyrant with years of experience will be a better commander than one that's a blank slate when it gets deployed on what ever planet they are invading.

By reusing the same consciousness with its old memories they get a commander with hundreds of battles of experience every time.

>> No.21889033

Thank you, Anon, been too lazy to do it by myself.

>> No.21889055

Old one eye and the red terror were the correct way to do nid special characters, both were a species or an individual, maybe, no one knew, because they could never get a confirmed kill.

>> No.21889109

The blank slate should have all the experiences of every nid before it, or at least the selected collection the greater gestalt thought was valuable, and it could download new programing at any moment it was in telekinetic rage. Having single individuals being important is retarded for a hive species, bees don't even do that. If the queen isn't producing enough eggs they will kill and replace it.

>> No.21889112

Old One Eye is one Carnifex.


>> No.21889116


Vague answers regarding what something could be, is what made 40k interesting back before current fluff. The wild speculation as to what some things could or could not be, is what ruins a lot of the fun of the game's setting. I'm personally hoping that the new Dark Angel codex leaves them at this vague line of being loyal or heretic, with no clear definite answer either way.

>> No.21889121

They are generic space horror monsters and they are pretty good at it. It probably helps that they can't hamfist dialogue seeing as they don't speak.

I kinda wish GW would use less cheesy colours on their studio armies, though.

>> No.21889139

Only in that one story told by a Fallen Angel were they Heretics.

>> No.21889157

They talked back in 2e.

>> No.21889162

Old one eye/red terror were not continuously spawned. They were actually special creatures, ones that no one could say for sure were dead.

>> No.21889179

Fluff is that its actually the very same carnifex. It keeps surving failed invasions
Gets picked up by looters looking too sell some nids to science for a quick buck. Old one eye then wakes up when they get too a new world. Starts smashing shit and calls a new hive fleet. He's a bit like a genestealer-fex

>> No.21889190

Wasn't around for 2E.

>> No.21889207

That was my point.

>> No.21889263

It's been a running theme with them. In novel form, it's been mentioned a few times. There's also the whole part about Cypher constantly fucking up both Imperial and Chaos forces, as well as being hinted at trying to get the Lion's sword reforged (supposedly at the Emperor's Feet). Even Jervis has said that Cypher is one of his favorite characters simply because he's about the closest thing to a 'true hero' in 40k, while remaining so vague as to which side he really stands on. There's also plenty of background about the Dark Angels completely abandoning Imperial positions in their hunt for the Fallen, and their fanaticism in silencing all Fallen.

Overall, the Dark Angels have always had this style to themselves of walking a thin line. They may be loyalists, or the never-disclosed secret that the inner circle maintains could very well be that they are actually the traitor-half of the Dark Angels legion. No one knows for sure based upon the canonical evidence, and that's how it should be. It allows the players to connect the dots on their own, and come up with their own conclusions. Which is keeping more to the heart and soul of 40k's background.

>> No.21889267
File: 88 KB, 600x551, img4a358a3c53e11.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>It keeps surving failed invasions
Perhaps not even necessarily failed. The Hive Mind keeps Ymgarl Genestealers out of the reclamation pools and leaves them behind on defeated worlds - maybe it does the same with creatures like Old One Eye and the Doom of Malan'tai. Then some bounty hunters, Inquisitors or whatever come along to investigate, find the creature in question dead or dormant, and take it away to sell or do science on. And once they land on a new world, rich in life, their cargo wakes up.

>> No.21889289

But it was implied that perhaps the oldone eye was a test template and the successful survival triggered the spawning of further carnifexis with the same regenerative template and it was just a legend in the ultimar system to call all regenerating fex with facial damage "old one eye"

And it is doubtful the red terror was one specimen, it showed up too many places.

Also neither required your opponents permission unlike all other individual characters in that edition.

>> No.21889290

So he is also like the black box of an invasion?

>> No.21889302

I kind of like the Swarmlord as a special character. It's pretty obviously, as much as the imperium would like to claim otherwise, not a single being, but more a specialist type of Hive Tyrant spawned when the Hive Fleet needs to focus its mind entirely on destroying a threat.

>> No.21889310

The hive tyrants consciousness can be considered that select data pack you mentioned. It makes strategic sense to have your on ground commanders have a certain amount of autonomy as well as lots of experience. So each data package gets combined with a "personality" that has done well in the past.

>> No.21889334

>Perhaps not even necessarily failed. The Hive Mind keeps Ymgarl Genestealers out of the reclamation pools and leaves them behind on defeated worlds - maybe it does the same with creatures like Old One Eye and the Doom of Malan'tai. Then some bounty hunters, Inquisitors or whatever come along to investigate, find the creature in question dead or dormant, and take it away to sell or do science on. And once they land on a new world, rich in life, their

I do find the idea of non reclaimable strains very interesting. Surely an ecosystem the size of a tyranid fleet has viruses, cancerous strains and parasitic genetic codes that are outside the complete control of the gestalt awareness.

Sort of like how all McIntosh apples are parts of the same individual tree, but they have to be checked for viral infection and mutation at times to make sure the trees put into an orchard are still true to type.

>> No.21889339


>> No.21889348

Okay, even if it's not a particular entity but a subspecies, it being a hive fleet blackbox is awesome.

It survives anything, and so keeps a record of the entire swarm, until a new fleet comes to the world its on, devours it, and absorbs the genetic history of the destroyed fleet.

>> No.21889360


>> No.21889392

>The hive tyrants consciousness can be considered that select data pack you mentioned. It makes strategic sense to have your on ground commanders have a certain amount of autonomy as well as lots of experience. So each data package gets combined with a "personality" that has done well in the past.

Doing so means you could have multiple swarm lords in one assault. I wouldn't object to that. Tyrants have always had personality, sadistic, cruel and cunning ones. A "swarmlord" Being a standard default template makes sense.

But the idea on on single swarmlord mind at a time, like it was an individual souls is incredulous and unfitting.

>> No.21889412
File: 111 KB, 850x566, 1353385395328.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.21889483

The Swarmlord is as old as the Tyranid race itself.

Perhaps he is the first of his kind, and thus he is given special privileges

>> No.21889740

Yeah, that is s pretty cool idea.

>> No.21890383

>The Swarmlord is as old as the Tyranid race itself.

that would be the most retarded thing ever, the basal genetic template is the gaunt/ hunter killer.

>> No.21890412

Maybe he is the original Hive Tyrant?

>> No.21890453

I dunno, I always figured it was the warrior-form, the one which was the original tyranid in rogue trader.

>> No.21890466

That's his fluff.

>> No.21890672

Fluff change with every edition.

I like to think of every edition as its own parallel universe rather than lumping everything together like we do here on /tg/.

>> No.21890771
File: 16 KB, 182x167, so it begins.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

First the 'crons and now the 'nids. Will you assholes never be happy?

>> No.21890819

The Oldcron didn't fit in to 40k so they had to go.

Deal with it.

>> No.21890861
File: 1.77 MB, 1191x1750, 73.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Magos Crazypants in Xenoncanonology reckons the Ripper is the closest thing the nids have to a base.

>> No.21890886

The Necrons got better.

There is no reason not to believe that the Nids won't benefit for a little changing too in the favor of individuality.

I want my army to be more than just locusts.

>> No.21890904

Tau feet, anon, Tau feet.

>> No.21890911

Just add more stuff like Old One Eye.

>> No.21890924

>How you can we introduce personality and individualism to the Nids without ruining them, /tg/?


>> No.21890939

Could be a mutant.

>> No.21890964

>Space Locusts
>"I want them to not be space locusts."

Play a different race then.

Or learn more about what characterization really means.

>> No.21891013

Nope, can't turn back now.

I want them fixed!

>> No.21891051
File: 114 KB, 573x592, Good_Guy_by_PabelBilly.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Perambulatory limbs. Tertiary joint analogous to Terran artiodactyls: suggests evolution from cloven-hoofed ruminant. Extreme vulnerability of padded elements incongruous with general robustness of subject (Spec: unusual periods of accelerated racial development have not advanced all organs at uniform rate).

>> No.21891056


That's not fixing them, son. That's changing the very idea of them into something you like for your own selfish reasons.

Why do you think people were so angry at the Newcrons?

You feel they are better but the people that LIKED them the way they were just saw them getting turned into something they didn't want them to be in the first place.

>> No.21891074

The only reason the necrons were fixed was a "Fuck You" to Andy Chambers. He was gearing up to progress 40k's storyline, some sort of internal political feud happened and then Ward became 40k's voice.

>> No.21891088


George Lucas, please go.

>> No.21891106

Good! Mat Ward makes 40k more fun.

>> No.21891138

GW has tried to advance plot before in first half of 2000's and the end result was awful.

>> No.21891158
File: 323 KB, 656x425, 1354604900589.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Why would you come to /tg/ just to annoy people?

>> No.21891204

Because I actually like what Ward is doing to 40k.

>> No.21891234


Product of the US education system no doubt.

>> No.21891279

You know he could just want the game to crash and die.

>> No.21891303

Nah, I thought 40k had gone incredibly downhill until Ward took over. It was so far up its own ass it was embarasing.

>> No.21891309
File: 647 KB, 1280x1024, at least it wasn't a melta bomb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I like Wardfluff.

I prefer Oldcrons.

Come at me, bros.

>> No.21891324

I am a product of said system and I do not agree with that anon in the least.

>> No.21891357

I like both newcrons and wardfluff, I disagree with you in the way but I'm sure you are a good person in real life.

>> No.21891364

OP, if you're still around, you should probably take a look at this:

>> No.21891434

Why would the truth annoy people?

>> No.21891458

Because he thinks I'm trolling him by not liking the same things as him.

>> No.21891548

>Why do you think people were so angry at the Newcrons?

The majority appreciated the change. A minority whined and got angry. In the end the whiners got over it and all is well.

If the price of change is the whining of a vocal selfish minority, then so be it.

>> No.21891712

We still have Necron whinethreads. I think we had two or them the other day.

>> No.21891948

A better question would be how we fix the Space Marines.

>> No.21892150

Like the Tyranids I really don't think they need to be fixed.

Whats broken about them?

They've already got a lot of variants on their basic "space knight SAS" theme. Theres already a chapter for pretty much anyones taste as is. Only one really missing is the cheap horde style. Which space marines shouldn't ever be like frankly.

>> No.21892183

No. Nids need to be a force of nature faction. Like Necrons before they got raped

>> No.21892235

Chaos gets cultists.

>> No.21892290

>Like Necrons before they got saved

>> No.21892327

the cultists aren't space marines.

>> No.21892344

That was the gap between Chambers and Ward I think. Gav Thorpes doing maybe?

>> No.21892358
File: 34 KB, 300x360, Bob-Barker-the-price-is-right-118658_300_360.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>...how we fix the Space Marines.

Remember to get your Space Marines spayed or neutered...

>> No.21892384

They are meatshields, though.

>> No.21892571

yeah,....but i really have no idea where you're going with this.

>> No.21892701

He's saying that a Chaos Space Marine army can pull off the horde style. By loading up on non Marine troops.

>> No.21892979


I was saying you can't do a horde of marines. Not that you can't have some marines in the same army as a horde of other stuff.

>> No.21893349

>It's been awhile, but I can't even remember a scene where he says anything.
"Nice night for a walk"
"Fuck you asshole"
"I'll be back"
"Get out"
"Sarah Connor?"
".45 Longslide with laser sight"
"Uzi 9mm"
"12 gauge autoloader"
"Phase Plasma Rifle in the 40 Watt Range"

Also the scene where he calls up impersonating the mother. I think that's just about all of them.

>> No.21893570

True enough, I was just wanting to point out his point, it's just a case of approaching something from two different ends.

>> No.21894294

What about a book following a band of Ymgarl Genestealers? They are already kicked out of any actual Hive fleets. Heck Fleets actually make a point to abandon them if they are accidentally absorbed. I'd read it.

>> No.21894569

This thread has actually helped me pin down what it is about Newcrons that ruins them. At least in my eyes. And for that I thank you all.

It's not the Tomb Kings in space, the changes to their technology, the retconning of the C'tan, it's not introducing squabbling dynasties and internal power struggles, it's not even the big name characters with silly motivations or objectives. That's all, relatively, typical Ward stuff, and we'd bitch about it like sister hats and spiritual lieges, and we'd get over it (except Macho Grande, I don't think we'll ever get over Macho Grande).

The problem is the personalities. See, last time I checked, Tomb Kings were mean. They were haughty, arrogant, and bitter; kings of grand nations so far gone you've never heard their names who were promised life everlasting in the underworld. Then they woke up to find their kingdoms in ruins, their countries desolate, their bodies a wreck, and their people dead. They were bitter and angry at the priests for lying about their afterlife and bodily preservation, they were bitter and angry at the new nations for squatting on their turf, they were bitter and angry at their successors for despoiling the lands, and at their descendents for dying out like chumps.

And this would be perfect as personalities for the Necrons. Bitter angry arrogant robooverlords of a long extinct and near forgotten empire.

But that's not how Ward wrote them. Maybe it's because he can't do subtle, maybe he just tends towards the overly verbose and melodramatic. Either way when it came time to put character and personality behind the Necrons he didn't write them like Tomb Princes and Liche Kings.

He wrote them like Orks.

>> No.21894651

No, GW has specifically stated they have no plans to reintroduce genestealer cults as a playable army.

>> No.21894705

When ants decide to kill their own queen and form a democracy I will listen to anything you have to say.

Tyranids are literally one of the only armies that don't want to fuck themselves over. I'd say that gives them more personality then all your smurf's combined.

>> No.21894779

As I've said before, Ward fluff is 'grimdark' written in dayglo marker pen.

>> No.21894782

The only way I see to bring individualism to the nids is to apply individualism on the fleet level. For example color schemes, preferred tactics and units. Perhaps even individualize the units for the fleet to represent genes they have stolen to make improvements, and maybe even this could effect the crunch.

>> No.21894821

>Sperglord of an OP decides his opinions are objectively true and lectures /tg/ on why they should start agreeing with him

Nothing to see here, move along.

>> No.21894882

The most we should ever have in terms of individuality is the special units like One Eye and the red one. Hell, maybe an extremely psychic one that "talks" to people on a planet, driving them insane. But in terms of "feels" and "no gf", we don't need any of that.

>> No.21894884


Actually, they were borderline plagiarized from the Dark Eldar. Several factions trying to outdo each other, lower ranks trying to kill the highers for more power, one de facto leader who is cold, calculating, and always ahead of his attackers. They also use small rapid-fire guns that do more damage than you'd think, and have some quirky melee units that are pointless to take, while others are powerful and amazing for dealing with MEQ's.

Typical Ward, ripping off Phil Kelly and trying to pass it off as originality.

>> No.21894902

actually some ants do kill their queen. they talk about it in this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qtT7MlWI7Q not sure which one, and I'm not going to bother finding it. But the ants don't form a democracy. The closest time ants come to having a democracy that I know of is when scouts vote on a new nesting site when the colony decides it needs a new nest.

>> No.21894939

Also I think my idea about this is already supported in the fluff because when 2 hive fleets meet they battle and the looser's biomass gets absorbed by the winner.

>> No.21895042

Genestealer Cults. Only way, without ruining the appeal of the nids. Unfortunately GW seems to have forgotten their existence.

>> No.21895055
File: 1.19 MB, 1600x788, 1347205422614.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Well OP as a Tyranid player myself, you can put personality into Tyranids without a complete change. Think about what situation your Hive Fleet is in. Now think how they react. There your Hive Fleet is now unique. Like so, my Hive Fleet specializes in Monsterous Creatures and destroying cities (Hive Fleet Gojira). The way I see it, each Hive Fleet represents a different facet of the Hive mind's schemes and in some way its personality. Its why when all the Hive Fleets arrive and attack at the same time is the galaxy fucked. Because you are now fighting something that has every angle of war covered.

>> No.21895089

Legit? Tell me more?

>> No.21895191
File: 478 KB, 300x169, TheMasterMimesABox.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You make me sad. Pic Related.

I want my Genestealer Cults back!

I'm not sure that's what OP is after.

>> No.21895340

Well then OP should just make his own fleet have personalities and not ruin it for the rest of us.

>> No.21895814

Fine then Newcrons are set up like Tomb Eldar.

They're characters are still written like Orks though.

>> No.21895865


I never see any Necron threads that aren't arguments about which unified race would conquer the galaxy or arguing over fluff.

I saw tons and tons of Necron threads when they were Oldcrons.

>> No.21895881

On part 5 of that now and i gota say this is pritty cool. Some of this shit i would of never guessed. Thanks for the video

>> No.21896210

Sure. I love ants.

>> No.21896879

What bothers me is that Tyranids aren't even a real hive mind.
They're controlled by a central intelligence.
On top of of doing retarded things like eating only the crust of planets.
Having hooves on a predatory animal.
Using fucking swords.
Mantoid limbs not built for crushing, but for slashing.
Yeah I play Nids, but damn if Geedubs doesn't irk me to no end.

>> No.21897541

I thought mantoid limbs were supposed to be for grappling.

>> No.21897921

There was not a central hive mind until recently, before if was just the collective gestalt of the whole race, and you had synapse creatures like tyrants, dominatrices and norn queens acting as decentralized processors along with their server/relay function. The hive mind was made up of all the lower synapse creatures.

>> No.21898388

It still is a gestalt mind
New fluff has just added that it gives some synapse creatures an amount of autonomy.

>> No.21898438

What's wrong with hooves on warrior beasts?

>> No.21898475

If by gestalt you mean singular then sure.
Once Tyranid creatures leave the influence of the Hive Mind they go crazy with no thought towards the well being of the whole.

>> No.21898488

I think he is more into claws.

>> No.21898502

All creatures with hooves are non-predatory and the Tyranids are clearly a predatory species.

>> No.21898509


Hence the suggestion to expand on the personality of the more important/strong willed Necrons.

It would have plenty of variance and interesting aspects while retaining the majority of the race as soulless monsters.

>> No.21898821

Tyranids are an alien species from another galaxy. Why do they have to follow the conventions of modern earth biology. Its a wonder they display traits of as many earth animal kinds as they do.

>> No.21898843

That's because they don't waste resources on basic beasts by giving them intelligence ( often they don't have a digestive system either). Nids been this way since at least 3rd. The hive mind is a gestalt of all the synapse creatures.

>> No.21900048

>aren't a real hivemind
Explain this faggotry, for everything I've seen points to the opposite.

>> No.21900131

Ants rebel if you indroduce a insidious factor in their midst. Like a fungus or an infection that robs them from their collective and corrupts them.

We have such a infestation and corruption. We call it Chaos. It will free the Nids from the Hivemind and set them free!

>> No.21900167 [DELETED] 
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Deep down Ward, you know we know you're the OP and you know we know the idea is utter shit.

>> No.21900211

Chaos doesn't do much to nids, actually. The hivemind ensures that there can't be a chaos nid.

>> No.21900252

Once it's all said and done. When all is written on paper and made official.

You will sing him praises.

>> No.21900277 [DELETED] 
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>You will sing him praises.

This misguided delusion of yours must end, Ward.

>> No.21903976

Well, no. Everything in WH40K is based to some degree on Earthly biology because it was written by GW, who are from Earth.
This is most likely someone at GW going "Hooves are cool!" and not doing any research before slapping them on a model.

>> No.21904012

>Don't want to waste resources on basic creatures
>Instead if they leave synapse range they go butt fuck insane
They wouldn't need to waste mental resources on them, they just need to fluffed better.

>> No.21904046

>and can take interact with others races with more ways than just nomming them.


>> No.21904794

Here's a question: Do Tyranids eat and gain the knowledge of strategists? Like how when the Tyrant dies, all its experiences join the collective. But what about anything else?
Could they, theoretically, absorb into the Hive Mind a tactical genius of sorts to better combat their food?

>> No.21904983

I should've thought this through more. the Tyrant just has its mentality pulled back into the hive mind or some shit.
Still, a nid that can steal thoughts and shit would be cool, to me.

>> No.21905094
File: 105 KB, 670x500, lictor.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Tyranids with feeder tendrils like Lictors can eat brains and absorb memories. But the Hive Mind already has an ultimate tactical genius type in the Swarmlord, who sees what the Hive Mind cannot see, thinks what the Hive Mind cannot think. Or something.

>> No.21908052

There where predators with hooves in that past, they're just extinct now.

Its worth noting that individual nids can be possessed. Likely just not when under the influence of the hive mind. And when seperate they don't really have the intelligence to be corrupted and join chaos

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