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[ERROR] No.21752235 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Sup /tg/, so I wanted to know, what did you like and not like about the last DA codex? I sat down with some buds and thought about how they might better be potrayed in a more heroic light. One of the key elements that we thought of it terminators being increased a bit so you get more bang for your buck. Now I will say that when I look at some past books, like Grey Knights, Blood Angels, Space Marines and Necrons, They all have some sort of shock troop. So other than mabye some revisions to the old crunch and fluff what are you looking for in the new codex by gamesworkshop?

>> No.21752549

bump

>> No.21752571

Don't grey knights already do the Terminators everywhere trick?

>> No.21752611

I'd like to see them stray a bit further away from codex:space marines, become more specialist, some unique weapons.
They're a little bland compared to SW and BA.
That said, I don't want DARK DARK DARK ANGEL ANGEL ANGEL everywhere.

>> No.21752639

>>21752571
Dark Angels did it first and better.

>> No.21752648

I'd like less focus on the Fallen hunt. It distracts from other potentially interesting stuff, such as their knight/native american influences, and many times just makes them look like total assholes more focused on a ten millenia old grudge than actually helping the Imperium.

>> No.21752651

>>21752611
THANK YOU!!!
Yes I feel that the main problem is that they really dont need their own dex. SHould be one of those old Mini Codex's to ADD ONTO the space Marine codex, thus giving them a little bit more flavor. So yeah specialized marines. Dont the eldar kinda have that already? As much as I love to see Eldar be killed in combat by space marines and Necrons I think that it would be pushing too far before people start complaing about having an idea stolen from them.

>> No.21752670

>>21752648
In a few bits of fluff they help out the ultramarines, they are space marines and thus part of the imperium.

>> No.21752684

>>21752571
Yes but I was thinking mabye it would be beter if they had more of a Ork Nobz type of termie. As great as the Grey Knights are the termie thing truely is an Dark Angel thing. So because of this they should proboly have more elite termies.

>> No.21752693

>>21752651
Ah, I assume you're talking about Raven Wing.
Yes, the Ravenwing is all very Saim-Han esque.
(Not sure if I spelled that right, but you get what I mean)

>> No.21752717

Another idea might be a unit that can reach out and kill enemy tanks from a long range. The chaos Warpsmith is what im looking at here.
Pretty sure the Dark Angels deserve somthing like that.

>> No.21752731

>>21752670
Yeah, but they've also been known to just randomly leave before a major enemy assault for, what is to outsiders, an unknown reason.

>> No.21752754

>>21752717
What about a platform that launchers multiple hunter-killer missiles?
Might be a bit close to that IG missile launcher, but it's a starting point.

>> No.21752757

>>21752731
Yeah but that dosnt seem very heroic. Hope its changed

>> No.21752777

>>21752754
Thats not how the dark angels play style should be.

>> No.21752812

>>21752757
That was sort of their thing though.
Being these mysterious devout and zealous space marines, with unknown motivations.
The sort of people who would save an imperial planet, then start razing cities if they found out there was a Fallen in charge.
If you want heroics, then Dark Angels aren't for you I would think.

>> No.21752814

>>21752648
Well the fallen have likley become possed by chaos to the extreme and thus the Dark Angels must be able to fight off Daemons with ease.

>> No.21752817

>>21752648
Isn't the fallen hunt the main concept of the Dark Angels though?

It is what defines their chapter to most people. All Marines have a whole knight thing going on, you are asking to take away a vital part of their fluff.

>> No.21752826

>>21752812
Well they shouldnt be like that. Isnt the space marine way.

>> No.21752840

>>21752817
They should have fluff changed I geuss. The fallen are cool and all but wouldnt it be better if they were daemons?

>> No.21752880

>>21752777
True, I'm probably just too fond of artillery.
Well I heard somewhere that DA had a thing for plasma.
So, what about a Land Raider or Predator with Plasma weapons?

>> No.21752893

>>21752826
...you just like Dark Angels because they're green, don't you?

>> No.21752928

>>21752648
>>21752235

>>>>I want Dark Angels more heroic and less shady.
>>>>Dark Angels.
>>>>Less shady.

You, sirs, have missed the point of the Dark Angels entirely.

>> No.21752931

>>21752840
>>Isn't the space marine way.
That's why they have their own codex, because they do a lot different, like the Raven Wing shit. If they did shit the "space marine" way, they would have one special character at the back of the Space Marine codex

>> No.21752962

>>21752931
Which is pretty much all they deserve until they better define their 'special snowflake tactics'.

>>21752880
Sounds too close to the melta-love of Salamanders.

>> No.21752973

>>21752928
Don't get me wrong, I like the whole Fallen fluff. It's pretty good. It's just that it defines their whole character. Blood Angels have the Black Rage and Red Thirst, but they still have some interesting stuff besides that, like their love of art and their unique way of being made.

>> No.21752978

>>21752826

Go home, Matt. Nobody wants your Ultrasmurfs here.
_________________________________________

On a less insulting note, I do honestly hope that the new codex sees the Angels refer back to their old knightly Order roots more, though I hope they keep that shades of grey / compromised morality aspect that makes the Dark Angels different from Codex Chapter #345291

>> No.21752980

>>21752962
Lots of terminators and lots of bikes/speeders.
But yes, so far the codex is pretty much unnecessary.

>> No.21752998

>>21752928
>>21752893

Agreed, all I see here are people making suggestions knowing next to nothing about the fluff or codex and complaining about how they should be less bland then SW and BA, then suggesting things that are just as bland.

>> No.21753003

>>21752840
>The fallen are cool and all but wouldnt it be better if they were daemons?

Seeing as the point is to get them to repent, and eventually kill them, no.

>> No.21753018

>>21752973

Dark Angels have more than just that. It is their defining feature as a chapter, but they still have their insular and taciturn nature (which is as much an outgrowth of their origin in the Order of Calibanite knights as it does the hunt for the Fallen). Similarly, they do Hold the Line and No Quarter better than many marine chapters do.

>> No.21753040

>>21753003
I just realized. Luther caused the whole Fallen rebellion in the first place. Why do they still keep him alive again?

>> No.21753065

>>21752998
Do you have any ideas?
Not accusing, just hopeful.
To me, the Dark Angels seemed more zealous then most, with all their sacred banners and such.
I like the idea of them having entire vehicles that are relics in their own right.
So, they definitely need some massively adorned land speeders that have something majorly different from the others.

>> No.21753067

>>21752840

Heck no. I mean, I might be in the minority here, but I actually rather liked the version of the events of the Heresy implied in Angels of Darkness. The idea that it was in fact the Primarch who fell (or hesitated, planning on seeing the outcome first), and the rest of the Legion have done their best to cover it up since. It fits the calculating and brooding nature of the chapter very well. It also further explains the sheer lengths to which the chapter will go to cover up matters.

>> No.21753095

>>21753040
They don't kill the Fallen until they've repented.
And Luther is so insane he can't form a sentence so he can't repent.

>> No.21753112

>>21752980
Bikes are supposed to be something the White Scars are good at, and GK and Iron Hand do Terminators.

So they took the tactics of two other legions, and do them both, and call it special?

>> No.21753121

>>21753040

It depends on which version of things you're going by. By Horus Heresy version of the story, it was because the Lion banished many of the chapter's members to Caliban to moulder in ignominy (or, by Luther's reasoning, die with their planet when Caliban's Chaotically attainted nature was discovered by the Imperium). In Angels of Darkness, it's implied the Lion is inhabiting a cell down there with Luther, because he was the one at fault for matters.

As for why they're alive, they're the two men who were most instrumental to the foundation of the 1st Legion. The Order before it and the Chapter after it would be nothing like they are now without them, both for good and for ill.

>> No.21753141

>>21753112

Incorrect. The Dark Angels are the original Termie chapter. The Iron Hands stole -their- schtick in that respect.

>> No.21753155

>>21753112
Iron Hands don't do Terminators, in fact they have very few.
Grey Knights having so many Terminators is a recent thing.
Dark Angels did all bikes before White Scars.

>> No.21753157

>>21753141

And in terms of the bikes, the Ravenwing is supposed to predate the Astartes, having been a holdover from their cavalry units from back when they were an order of knights hunting down Chaos-tainted beasts on a Death World.

>> No.21753179

>>21753112

You need to remember, Dark Angels are one of the original chapters. They even pre-date Grimdark, having originally come from all the way back in Rogue Trader.

>> No.21753189

>>21753155
>>21753141
Are you speaking in terms of order of codices? or in the fluff?

I find it hard to believe that the Dark Angels went to the guys whose primarch is space genghis khan, and called dibs on riding bikes into combat.

>> No.21753214

>>21753189

A little bit of both. Fluff-wise, the two chapters share a common tactical inspiration: they both came from a culture that produced excellent cavalry, and neither Legion chose to abandon that aspect of their past when they developed their modus operandi.

>> No.21753216

>>21753189
>Are you speaking in terms of order of codices? or in the fluff?

Both.

>> No.21753226

>>21753189

In terms of metagame inspiration, it came from two different sorts of real-world horsemanship.

>> No.21753253

>>21753189

Look at it this way: Space Ghengis Khan didn't go to Space King Arthur and tell him that he had dibs on riding bikes into combat either.

Similarly, Angron didn't go to Russ and tell him that fighting in melee or while angry was his deal so he couldn't do it.

>> No.21753310

>>21753253
Yes, but while Leman and Angron share a tactic, they no longer share a side, so they aren't stealing anything from each other in the game.

Space Khan is barely a footnote in the game, while Space Arthur has a whole group that gets to say they have their own tactic, while sharing his tactic, and another army's tactics.

I'm not saying the Dark Angels can't do it, but it sort of sucks that we are considering this worthy of a codex, when it really isn't.

>> No.21753312

>>21752893

I do have to admit, I do love the older Dark Angels colors (both the original RT colors and the Heresy-era coloration).

>> No.21753320

While it might be cool to see a bit more of a Native American influence, the Fallen should be kept as is no matter what.

The Fallen allow you to view the DA in one of two ways, either a chapter that still feels guilt for events that took place over ten thousand years ago and thus hunts the Fallen as atonement or as a chapter so concerned about their honor and image that they will go to any lengths to cover up what really happened on Caliban.

>> No.21753376

>>21753310
>Space Khan is barely a footnote in the game, while Space Arthur has a whole group that gets to say they have their own tactic, while sharing his tactic, and another army's tactics.

Both tactics belong to the Dark Angels, the others are imitating them. They seem dilute because everyone else was given their bits.

>> No.21753418

>>21753376
Which is dumb, which is the point of the conversation. Thanks for catching up, I hope the green text didn't slow you down.

>> No.21753456

The point behind Dark Angels has always been the monastic knight concept with honor and integrity above all else. As much as the whole imperium is xenophobic, the dark angels take this to a whole new level and refuse to fight with the impure. They also carry with them great shame and a great secret that must remain unknown to everyone.

Personally, I want to see a ravenwing and terminator unit in each FOC option. Troops have the generic stuff we have today.

Elite would have melee oriented terminators and range oriented attack bikes. Fast attack would be melee oriented terminators with teleport and ravenwing would have bikes with power lances that could use the new chariot rule. Heavy could have multiple heavy terminator options or 3 of 5 can have cyclones etc. Ravenwing would have 'ironwing' formation of razorbacks without transport capability but with better firepower at a point reduction.

Once you've fleshed out the deathwing and ravenwing some by making one the hard hitting assault and the other the hard hitting range you can then expand on the other units.

Now what you do with the power armor units, I don't know. It goes without saying that Dark Angels need more than to be armies of black and white models, but how do you do it? As far as rules go, I don't know how to make it work, but I would love to see an all robed unit with 2 handed swords on the tabletop. a unit of 10 of these engaging a unit from a rhino would be amazing.

>> No.21753463

>>21753418

>Butthurt.

Can we actually get this thread back on track as a what did and you like about the old Dark Angels codex thread, rather than a "bitch about why you don't like the Dark Angels as a chapter" thread?

>> No.21753500

>>21753310

Until their most recent codex, the space wolves, black templar, and blood angels didn't warrant their own books either though. You can't blame DA for lacking when everything they once had that made them unique has been handed out to everyone else. If the white scar rules, loganwing, and GK codex weren't done then we would once again think the DA were awesome and deserviving of their own book.

There was nothing special about assault marines being troops, scouts joining units of marines, and devestator squads being able to shoot 2 different units.

>> No.21753505

>>21753463
>Thread asks what people did and did not like
>Turns into a DA circlejerk only thread

>> No.21753546

>>21753500
We can't blame them, but it doesn't solve the problem to keep hitting on those themes if they have already been passed to other groups. The DA codex is not going to make the other books stop existing.

So the real goal should be to adjust their niche, tactics-wise that is. I think the fluff is interesting stuff, its just their unit choices that are boring.

>> No.21753603

>>21753505

You know what, given that you and I are the only ones posting things without actual relevant content, I'm going to just shut up and continue reading the thread to see what ideas and hopes people have for the codex.

>> No.21753677

I want the hunt for the fallen to end, one way or another, if not at least give less focus on it. Focus on the lion motif, I want lion guards god dammit. I still dig them being the 2deep4u marines and pulling off an autistic move now and then ( let's face it, the whole imperium of man is autistic) The native american origins is also a nice idea games workshop should push a bit further, past the feathers, maybe tomahawk weapon or some shit like that. Let's just face it and brace for a fallen angel hunting, 2edgy dark angels with new-er set of rules..and the knight theme, although I really fucking dig the knight theme they have working on with the raven wing.

>> No.21753735

>>21753500

Blood Angels and Space Wolves would have taken about seven extra codex options, and five extra 'this is your FoC' rules, to replicate at all. That's giving up most of their details. Black Templars are even harder to do, requiring you to add a footnote to more or less every single unit in the army about whether or not you can take it and what it does when you do. And two special character apiece.

You can replicate the Dark Angels perfectly with two special character that have an alteration to FoC rules, and a footnote in the Terminators section. There would be literally nothing left to add that wasn't frills and frippery. Or if you want to decouple characters and rules, two special FoC rules and an army-wide special. You can already replicate a DA army to 90% with the current SM codex. Blood Angels are 75%, but miss their biggest feature. Wolves are 60% at best, usually less. Black Templars just don't work.

This is why the Dark Angels are singled out. Of all the proliferated SM codex, theirs is by far the least necessary. Not even the niche SM codex players want there to be so many books. We'd all be happier if GW moved to a mega-codex style, integrating into only six big books. with huge rules sections and even bigger fluff. But because that is a decision that won't happen until next edition, and probably ever, we focus on what is practicable. And in that case, that's putting the Dark Angels back.

>> No.21753748

>>21753677
>native american
>origin

Nein.

>> No.21753805

What I think might be interesting for Dark Angels is to have the default Sergeants replaced with Termies. Either that, or the most horrible idea ever...

Terminator Jet Bikers.

>> No.21753873

>>21753805
>terminator jet bikers

that is an idea that would make an ork cringe in shame

>> No.21753877

>>21753735

Oh bull shit.

They had fast rhinos, assault marines as troops, and death company.

They had a global special rule, an emperor's champion, and what effectively was scouts joining marine units.

Wolves had even less with only true grit and a FOC requirement to take 2 HQ's at a minimum.

Dark Angels had terminators, bikes, homers, mortis, landspeeders, terminator assault.

Until their most recent books, 2 or 3 lines on a special character could have done everything needed for all of the marine books. If you're going to drop any of them then drop them all.

>> No.21753907

>>21753877

Unless of course you think removing options is somehow a benefit to an army too in which case that 'expands' on what they all got too.

>> No.21753935

>>21753873
They can already do backflips, why not ride a bike?

>> No.21753956

>>21753805
Only if the Jet Bikes move so slowly and painfully that sparks fly from the back as it drags across the ground.

>> No.21753987

>>21753935

they are going to give them disgusting trikes with fucking tank threads, just no..

>> No.21754041

>>21753877

You ought to read the full post. I say I want them all gone. I don't want twenty army books, that take so long to work through that they never have them all out for one edition.

But I also recognise that this is a long-term objective. For now, it's sufficient to stop unnecessary proliferation. And from there, to start winding back the others. Probably Blood Angels first, since they're second-simplest. And then Space Wolves. Once Black Templars are the only ones left GW is practically obliged to remove them as well.

It just so happens that the Dark Angels are the easiest to do this to. They never got a real codex of their own, and require the fewest unique codex entries, army-wide special rules, and unusual FoC options. Even in your absurdly over-simplified construct of what each army needs to function in its way, you still cannot make the Dark Angels as unique without inventing things. It's telling that even when your summaries fail to grasp the basics of each army, the actual base of the Dark Angels is still less unique.

>> No.21754152

>>21753805
>Terminator jet bikers

That's goin' in the list. Thanks guys.

>> No.21754278

>>21754152

Don't forget to make the jetbike Terminators Native Americans, with Power Tomahawks and feathered headdresses.

>> No.21754346

>>21753987
na, he said jet get that armor airborne.
>>21754152
>>21754278
Get this assault dreadnoughts with jetpacks

>> No.21754518

There's a lot of things about the Dark Angel chapter that seems to have either been handed off to someone else or just left off. I too would like to see a move back towards the Terminators taking more of a line with the Native American idea and the bikes being worth taking and not massivly too costly compared to other chapters. I think I'd like to see a bit more mention towards how they are a fully space bound chapter, on their dumb assed warp capable rok-monastery. You can't get away with removing the idea of The Fallen, as it is integral to the idea of the chapter and why everyone takes a less than keen view on them despite having no mutations. I don't know, I suppose all I can hope for is that one day they will actually do their schik better than base codex marines.

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