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21420305 No.21420305 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why is being lawful good so frustrating but so fun at the same time?

>> No.21420331
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21420331

>>21420305

>> No.21420339

Define "Lawful good".

>> No.21420593

Bah!
Law is a rhetorical device perpetuated by people who hate making decisions, who would MUCH rather consult a code than be faced with the responsibility of making a decision. Law seeks to replace personal responsibility with institutional responsibility, and to replace "right for this situation" with "right because I said so".

Put the most righteous and revered paladin the world has seen into a cell with a lever. Inform him that a thousand will die if he pulls it and a million will die if he doesn't. I'm sure you know what happens here, because liches have been doing it for as long as there have been paladins: the dumb cunt doesn't pull the lever. No personal sense of consequence. When the million die, he blames the lich.

Lawful people believe that their behavior is a response to a cosmic demand; chaotic people believe that their behavior is a personal choice. Chaotic Good was here; Law is a nigger.

>> No.21420638
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21420638

>>21420339
>A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. He combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. He tells the truth, keeps his word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.

>> No.21420646

>>21420339
Respecting order and tradtion and/while/in order to help others because it's the right thing to do/gives you a boner

>> No.21420662

>>21420331
>3 steps ot there you png
D&D isn't the only fucking game out there you twat. I otherwise approve of that image, even if D&D is crap.

>> No.21420672

>>21420593
>Put the most righteous and revered paladin the world has seen into a cell with a lever. Inform him that a thousand will die if he pulls it and a million will die if he doesn't. I'm sure you know what happens here, because liches have been doing it for as long as there have been paladins: the dumb cunt doesn't pull the lever. No personal sense of consequence. When the million die, he blames the lich.

strawmen fallacy

>> No.21420679

>>21420662
Goes on about how there are other games
Insults what you play

STOPLIKINGWHATIDON'TLIKE.jpeg

>> No.21420689
File: 38 KB, 1012x537, To Be a Paladin.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
21420689

I am in love with Lawful Good. I find it both the most interesting alignment and by far the most fun to play.

And honestly, in real life, I must admit I think Lawful Good is the way to go, if it is truly lawfful and truly good.

>> No.21420752

Lawful good is my personal favorite alignment, but it is not one I am always able to uphold, either in gaming or in life. Nevertheless, I always strive for it.

I've tasted the fruit of chaos and selfishness; it is unsatisfying.

>> No.21420786

>>21420638
>that image
>SAVING LIKE THE FIST OF AN ANGRY GOD

>> No.21420794

>>21420305
>frustrating and fun
That's what we call a "challenge". The frustration comes from the difficulty in making it work, and the fun comes from grappling with and eventually succeeding against that difficulty.

sage because this one enjoys making snarky comments.

>> No.21420795
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21420795

Fuck yeah, my brutha. Let's find our true destiny.

>> No.21420992

>>21420672
Nope.
Yet again, someone on the internet spits out the name of a fallacy when it doesn't apply to the situation at hand.
The poster you responded to is a massive faggot. That doesn't necessarily mean he committed a formal fallacy.

>> No.21421062

>>21420305

Lawful good is pretty neat.

My favorites neutral good, though.

>> No.21421288

>>21420593
Yea fuck the police man, forget having consistent moral guidelines. Clearly that means I have no sense of right and wrong, because if I'm consistent then I obviously don't give a fuck about evil by inaction.
Yes captcha, staepub is full of vileness.

>> No.21421343

So, one of my players is evil, and of course he butts head with the paladin all the time.

Right now the party is in a rather evil sort of kingdom, and the evil player wants to get the paladin in trouble somehow.

He keeps coming to me saying that if he's Lawful Good, he has to follow the law of a Lawful Evil nation.

And I keep telling him that he doesn't if the law in question doesn't fall into his personal code/ his god's laws.

I'm right, aren't I? I mean, I know I can MAKE MYSELF RIGHT, being the DM and all, but I'm sure I am taking the right approach.

>> No.21421364

>>21421343
You're doing good, keep it up.

>> No.21421396
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21421396

>>21421343
>I'm sure I am taking the right approach
Yes. Obviously. A paladin doesn't have to endorse or enable slavery or genocide or whatever evil thing just because the local rulers like it. He is not an unthinking authority-bot.

>> No.21421450

>>21421396

>Not being a paladin wielding a dueling shield.

PLEBEIANS

>> No.21421511
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21421511

I wonder how well this thread would go on other boards.

Apparently LG isn't for everyone.

>> No.21421532

>>21421450

>Not being a paladin wielding dual shields.

>>21421511

There was a thread on /a/ today that became a Paladin appreciation thread.

I honestly don't remember why.

>> No.21421582

>>21421343
States that Paladins only respect laws that are in just societies. The paladin should be trying to knock the current leader off for a better leader, unless he has more important things to do.

>> No.21421591
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21421591

>>21420593
Personal responsibility is a lawful construct that judges and canonizes the actions of all aligned entities into a framework of goodness all good creatures roughly abide by. Chaotic good preys generally on personal moral abstractions but more basically on common law for its righteous indulgence. It is a parasitic and anti-intellectual exploitation of more basic forms of lawfulness that eschews causality and higher forms of societal responsibility for egoist principles by their nature derived from practical enforcement of advanced social theory. Presented with any moral dilemma a chaotic good agent acts reflexively through the most childish or biased model of behavior, regardless of how that conduct affects his fellows. He seems to believe that only his personal reflection abides by moral axioms, a product of a limited intelligence and non-structured moral youth.

Presented with the same conundrum the chaotic good entity may refuse the lich's lever, may pull it, but will always act without extended study on the basis of a personal imperative construed good. Just as the lawful good paladin may refuse or may pull the level in an appeal to justice without extended criticism of his moral faith.

But in the end even a stupid lawful good will promote more goodness and solidarity than the average chaotic good, as his appeals to righteousness have been criticized and adapted through generations across enormous swathes of the population while the seditious chaotic good has but his own experience, or perhaps the limited experience of his family, to pull conclusions from.

So basically what I'm saying is that Chaotic alignments are for people who refuse authority irrationally and do what they want, whether they construe their behavior as good, neutral, or evil. They're intellectual parasites that play at moral politics.

Libertarians, basically.

>> No.21421684

>>21421591

So Chaotic good is confirmed the Lazy Hero alignment?

>> No.21421706

>>21420672
No, he prays to his god(s) for the salvation of the innocents and damnation of the evil behind this abhorrent act. Depending on the Paladins deity, of course.


Then he does his best to kill the fuck out of that Lich, using his sword as a conduit of righteous might.

>> No.21421712

>>21421684
Yes.

Chaotic anything usually is just a person with lazy excuses.
Chaotic evil? You just feel like killing that guy.
Chaotic neutral? Fuck it, I do what I want.

>> No.21421713

>>21421684
Yes.

>> No.21421902

>>21421591

In most cases, the CG response to a dilemma of good and evil or self-verses-others will be the same as the LG response. If you're looking at how good a job someone does at maintaining the wellbeing of the collective, "Good" is the alignment you want. The relative values of Lawful Good or Chaotic Good lie in where they differ.

Chaotic Good morality is personally, but not necessarily arbitrary, and no more likely to be arbitrary than Lawful Good morality. Lawful people will prop up institutions simply because they're institutions, even if their net good doesn't outweigh the effort of maintaining them, or even if they do net harm. In this way, ignorant Lawful Good persons waste constructive energy or even end up doing real harm.

Ignorant Chaotic Good persons may also cause harm by accident, but this is more likely to be because their disdain for conventional wisdom has caused them to begrudge or reject valid moral concerns.

So, in both cases you have good people making mistakes due to personal blindspots. The Chaotic fails to recognize when institutions are useful; the Lawful fails to recognize when they are not. And in both cases the problem might have been averted with better information, because again, both parties were trying to do good.

There are two conclusions we can draw from this. The first is that Chaotic Good people should work more freely with Lawful Good people, making sure to recognize their shared regard for Goodness before other concerns. The second is that Neutral Good is the master race of alignments.

>> No.21421924

>>21421902
There's a reason Neutral Good is at the top of the alignment chart.

>> No.21421969

>>21421902
Chaotic good is, by my experience and I expect pretty much everyone else's, far more likely to be arbitrarily confrontation to the cause of good than Lawful Good.

But you're right, Neutral Good is master race. Even if Goodness is ultimately moral lawfulness, Neutral Goods are more likely to accept rational reform when presented with evidence.

>> No.21422185

>>21421969

I, conversely, think that you greatly overestimate a lawful person's willingness to confront harmful-in-the-long-run traditions or institutions, as compared to a chaotic person's, and assuming an equal level of genuine Good intent from both.

That last part is important to remember- an equal degree of Good intent from both. Because Law and Good ARE similar, in that they are both collectivist alignments, and Chaotic is not. It's easy to conflate Chaos with Evil and assume that Chaotic Good people are characterized by some level of selfishness or arrogance, rather than purely by their attitude towards institutions.

>> No.21422306
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21422306

>>21420638
it took me a couple of seconds to realize what that image was.

Anon, you have made my day.

>> No.21422332
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21422332

>>21420638
>>21420786
>>21422306

How much would you give for an Ice World vidya/TT /tg/?

>> No.21422355
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21422355

>>21422332

>> No.21422386

>>21422332
NOT TRANSPARENT GET OUT

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