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[ERROR] No.21398095 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Is the IG any good in 6th edition? Post your lists, tactics, tips etc.

>> No.21398129

Are you fucking serious? Like, really?

They are the best army in the game. If you want to play the faggot flyer game you out-cheese Necrons with the criminally undercosted Vendetta that has lascannons sticking out of every orifice. If you want to play the MSU game you shit all over SW and GK and their cute Razorbacks with 20 tanks; more vehicles AND more weight of fire. In fact, fuck weight of fire, just bubblewrap your tanks and let them do all the work.

>> No.21398131

They are all good. Vendettas are even more overpowered now, all those barrage weapons are awesome (especially mortars, since you can take a million of them), even other HQs like the Commissar Lord and Primalis Psyker are good. Mechinized veterans are on the decline though, as well as Leman Russ Battle Tanks/Demolishers with sponsons.

>> No.21398133

Make sure vendettas consume half your points. Wise to add heavy bolters to them for balance.

The rest should have any assortment of ranged damage, apply to only what it can safely harm.

Every game ever with IG: Good to Invulnerable chance to win.
>invulnerable if you add majority points in vendettas

>> No.21398232

How do I beat IG as Tyranids? It seems like the whole game depends on me stealing the initiative. I either deploy where he kills only 25% of my army but it takes me forever to assault him, or I deploy in the open but able to assault in a turn or two but he kills 50% of my army before I even get to do anything. Out games pretty much come down to:
1) I deploy first go first but he deploys in the furthest possible place that I deployed and he guns me down before I get to him.
2) I deploy first go first but he steals initiative and severely cripples my army in turn 1.
3) He deploys first and goes first and my army is able to reach him in 1 turn, but he goes first and kills most of my army.
4) he deploys first but I steal initiative and its a close game that comes down to rolls.

I just feel like the shear amount of fire power he has is impossible to deal with even with tons of cover and terrain.

>> No.21398249

Imperial Guard 1500 pts
Company Command Squad (Lascannon, Camo-cloaks, Creed, Kell) 265 pts
1. Infantry Platoon:
Platoon Command Squad (mortar) 35 pts
Infantry Squad (Commissar, Power axe, Sarge with Power Axe, Vox Caster, Grenade Launcher, Lascannon) 135 pts
Infantry Squad (Sarge with Power Axe, Vox Caster, Grenade Launcher, Lascannon) 90 pts
Infantry Squad (Sarge with Power Axe, Vox Caster, Grenade Launcher, Lascannon) 90 pts
Infantry Squad (Sarge with Power Axe, Vox Caster, Grenade Launcher, Lascannon) 90 pts
Heavy Weapons Squad (3 mortars) 60 pts
Heavy Weapons Squad (3 autocannons) 75 pts
Total: 575 pts
2. Veteran Squad (3 plasma guns, Forward Sentries, Vox Caster) 150 pts
Fast Attack:
Vendetta Gunship 130 pts
Heavy Support:
Basilisk 125 pts
Leman Russ Battle Tank (hull heavy bolter) 150 pts
Aegis Defence Line with Quadgun 100 pts
Total: 1495 pts
What do you think /tg/?

>> No.21398259

What kind of army does he run? Blob guard or mech guard?

>> No.21398276

I guess it would be mech since he runs 3 Leman Russ variants, a Vendetta and a Valkyrie. Luckily he agreed that the Valkyrie and Vendetta would counts as Skimmers as otherwise I would have virtually no way to deal with it. 3 Hive Guard can only go so far.

>> No.21398304

Tervigons or other big Tyranid beastie with Iron Arm or Endurance or both can soak up crazy amounts of shooting. Also, Telekinesis powers like Crush and Objuration Mechanicum might be your answer to vehicles. Infiltrating Genestealers could work if you're smart about it.

>> No.21398331

Also, ALWAYS use camo nets on your tanks and artillery. Then park them behind your Aegis. 3+ cover save on your armor is pretty awesome. And as said, Vendettas are still really fucking strong as they take out all the stupid flyers.

>> No.21398376

Also, spam Gaunts in order to deny your enemy's flyers movement across the board.

>> No.21398444

>not Skyshield Landing Pad


>> No.21398509

oh man, you gave me a brillant idea.

>> No.21398518

>Luckily he agreed that the Valkyrie and Vendetta would counts as Skimmers as otherwise I would have virtually no way to deal with it.

Man up and stop being a puss. Just ignore the damn flyers if you can't shoot them down, they aren't a big deal. Alternatively, take a Flyrant and crush them with contemptuous ease.

>> No.21398534

Not the 'nid player anon, but:
>Fill the whole table with 9000+ gaunts
>Flyers can't enter

>> No.21398537

Wait...there's a sixth ed now?

Cuntchrist, I'm really behind the times.

>> No.21398563

Those kind of armies are a real bitch to paint and move across the table though.

>> No.21398568


What army did you play in 5th?

>> No.21398573

Imperial Guard.

>> No.21398574

>1750 points
>Three Tervigons
>Almost 200 gaunts
>No items
>Fox only
>Final Destination

>> No.21398576

If it turned out to be a "borderline overpowered" trick then you can bet your ass that all the netlisting faggots will suddenly order Gaunts in crates and hire painting slaves to get the job done.

>> No.21398578


Congratulations, you're still top dog.

Flyers now have to enter from reserves, but everything can only snapfire at them (BS1) unless they have the skyfire rule, so most everyone cant shoot at you (although you cant contest)

>> No.21398586

Having played against a variant of
a few times, I'd assume that any 'Nid player that doesn't already own barrels upon barrels of Gaunts is going to be getting them soon.

>> No.21398607

You know, I was actually half kidding. Now I'm all serious. Damn.

>> No.21398640

Yeah, they're still good, because their shit is still largely undercosted, and some of it (Valks/Vendettas and Russes, mostly) got better--or at least relatively better in the case of Russes. 6th Ed. vehicles are stupid vulnerable if they don't fly, have at least AV13, or have the ability to sit at the back of the board behind cover and lob shit from afar. Guess what Guard vehicles can do?

Oh, and templates generally got better (because cover got worse, and the nerfage of transports means more infantry overall and more infantry outside of vehicles, plus they hit vehicles at full Strength without needing to land the center hole on them), and Guard are the pie plate masters of 40K.

Shit, even Chimeras are still good, though for entirely different reasons. They aren't so hard to kill anymore, but they bring you two heavy weapons, AV12 remains decent if not amazing (AV10 and 11 vehicles are the ones that truly just melt away like nothing to hull point loss; 12 is a penumbral case in that it at least needs more than weapons designed to kill infantry to deal with), and they cost like nothing. However, they're *not* good anymore in terms of having great ability to protect squishy Vets, Command Squads, Psykers, etc.: An extra layer of protection is fine but assume that you'll be getting out at some point.

Oh, and you are the king of plasma spam, which is the new melta spam. Fuck it, you're the king of spam, period, so whatever is good in a given meta/edition, the current IG codex is just going to be spamming it.

Book is fucking overpowered as shit and no edition is going to change that. Competitive players know that it's more OP than GK and about as bad as Space Wolves.

>> No.21398648

wouldnt tervs with termagants be better?

though i wish they could spawn gaunts sometimes

>> No.21398660

>about as bad as Space Wolves.
Space Wolves took a big hit with the launch of the Chaos codex, because their precious Long Fang spam has no protection from Heldrakes, who can drop their S6 AP3 (with once-a-game re-roll failed wounds) template almost anywhere on the entire board the turn they come in. The best they can do is take a Quad-Gun or Icarus Lascannon and pray the Interceptor fire saves them before they get torched, which is unlikely.

>> No.21398705


I don't think this alone is going to have much effect, competitively speaking (obviously if you play with 3 buddies and one of them has CSM with a Helldrake/Helldrakes that's different). In a given tournament, given a few months' time, you're still probably not going to be up against CSM all that often, and some of those will not bother with Helldrakes, and some of those Helldrakes will opt out of the baleflamer because it makes the model a poor counter to other flyers whilst the Hades autocannon is pretty good at shooting them down.

Besides this, the power of Long Fangs isn't what's keeping SW good in 6th; it's Grey Hunter spam with plasma and Rune Priests. Missile launchers are much less good than they used to be. I'd further note that counters to Long Fangs always existed but that they were just cheap enough that it didn't *really* counter them in the sense that resources invested were proportional to the cost of the Long Fang squad or greater, and this is certainly still the case with Helldrakes.

>> No.21398706


Long Fangs took a hit in 6th in general because with cover saves sucking now the only way to keep that squad alive is to stick it in an aegis defense bunker (hence more points). Sure LF are cheap for what they put out, but having no ablative wounds at all sucks big time.

The real problems of SW is the fact that GH are just too versatile and good at just about everything, while TW cavalry is pretty much the best assault unit in the game.

>> No.21398723

Consider that the Heldrake deals with Grey Hunters just as well as it does Long Fangs. If its got a 3+ save, the Heldrake is going to bumrape it until they shoot the fucker down.

>some of those Helldrakes will opt out of the baleflamer because it makes the model a poor counter to other flyers
If a Chaos play opts out of the Baleflamer, he deserves to lose. Barring ridiculously specific local metas, the Baleflamer will always be the superior choice.

>> No.21398741


This, the Hades autocannon is a rather terrible choice. Heldrakes aren't MCs, you cant vector strike an enemy flier turn around and shoot them.

Heldrakes aren't even very good on the 'anti-flyer' side of things unless they're up against necrons anyway. Most other flyers are AV12, and S7 isn't exactly a super reliable way to put that down.

If you want anti-air, take an aegis defense line with a quad gun.

>> No.21398744

Since Flyers are so abundant now, are Hydras are worth taking?

>> No.21398757

Not really. It has Skyfire, but not Interceptor, so enemy flyers will get the first shot if they're worried about the Hydra. Lacking Interceptor also means that it fires against ground targets at BS1 (since it can't choose to turn skyfire off), so if your opponent doesn't bring any flyers the Hydra is nearly useless.

Vendettas and an Aegis Line with a Lascannon or Quad Gun are better options, since they aren't limited to ONLY skyfire.

>> No.21398764


Yeah, but their Vector Strike is bad and not a reliable way to deal with enemy flyers. If you're expecting a Heldrake to deal with flyers, I'm sorry but it does indeed need the Hades autocannon, else it's enormously overcosted for what it's doing.

As for the baleflamer, yeah it roasts MEQ really well, but there are several AP3 or 2 templates in the game that do it as well point-for-point, and you just don't need to get that specialized about dealing with MEQ. They die to everything and many things that don't ignore their armor are in fact more efficient. Taking a really expensive thing that specializes entirely in killing MEQ infantry is generally a bad idea in my book, but I'm not a doctor.

>> No.21398780

The point is that anti-flyer is not its primary job. Even with the Autocannon its not very good at it (the 40pts cheaper Vendetta far out-performs it).

Its a troop-roaster, and damn good at it. A S6/AP3 Flamer isn't just good against MEQ, it'll fuck up any non-terminator you point it at. In an edition where 5/6 gametypes are objective-based, being able to effectively burn off backline objective holders with little effort (and almost no chance for them to retaliate before the damage is done) is a huge advantage.

>> No.21398795

for 75 points, its still 4 st 7 shots twinlinked,

thats what i rely on for flyer anti-air at bs1, so aiming at ground targets isn't all that different.

and don't forget skyfire also works against skimmers, jetbikes and other aerial vehicles so chances are if they don't have one they'll have another.

I'd say hydras are still good.

>> No.21398801

What I wonder is how could Elysian drop troops fit in as CSM allies?

Tzeentchian terrorists? Airborne Blood Pact? Slaaneshi speed freaks? Nurgle wouldn't fit, though I could see how DKoK could worship him.

>> No.21398802

The vendetta should never be compared with because it is so ridiculously undercosted. its overpowered due to poor foresight by crudace.

Its the outlier, look at other fliers first.

>> No.21398815


>>Vendetta outperforms it

Oh really? The ("arguably") most undercosted thing in the game outperforms it? Shocking.

Now I'm not saying a S6 AP3 flamer isn't great at frying lots of infantry, but this is 6th Ed. and Heldrakes are not cheap: If you can't shoot that fucker down before it kills more than its points of infantry, you are either: A) Playing Grey Knights and have Strikes/Purifiers; or B) have neglected to plan to deal with flyers.

And if you want to talk further about how to deal with flyers, I'd be happy to. Every army has the tools, though they may not always be obvious (e.g. Ork Lootas). No one should be losing to flyer spam unless they've gone vehicle-heavy and are facing multiple Vendettas, and, yes, this includes 'Cron flyer spam (they're AV11 and that's a big difference).

>> No.21398821

>so aiming at ground targets isn't all that different.
Except that ground targets are far more common, and every army has ground units you will want to shoot at.

Not every army has Flyers. If they don't bring them, the Hydra is just dead points. Even worse, if you end up with the Big Guns gametype, that squishy little Hydra is suddenly worth a Victory Point.

Hyras are worth it if your meta is dominated by Necron Airforce, but otherwise they're pretty shit when you could be cramming a Leman Russ into that slot instead, which has way better odds of accomplishing something meaningful, since this edition has generally worse coversaves and more Infantry running around.

>> No.21398836

The problem with the heldrake is that, unlike the Fiend, it doesn't have a pair of cannons to overcome its shitty BS.

>> No.21398838

and as soon as you give the drake the auto it gets slightly better at AA and crappier at anti infantry.

>> No.21398848

Its a perfectly valid comparison, considering Chaos can take IG allies. If you want anti-flyer, its directly competing for the Heldrake for those points, and does the job better.

And i'm not saying that armies can't deal with flyers, nor am i saying that Flyer spam is good. But an AV12 Flyer that can bust a unit off an objective in 2 turns of shooting max, or gut a Long Fang squad on turn two very little risk of failure, is a damn good thing to have around.

It doesn't need to kill 170 points worth of models to be worth it. If, for example, it kills the 5-man tactical marine squad holding the enemy's backfield objective and NOTHING ELSE, i would say it has accomplished enough, given that the enemy will now have to redirect another squad to go take that objective or lose out on those 3 VP.

>> No.21398853

Convert IG flyers into carrion bird-esque aircraft. Nurgle flyers.

>> No.21398855

yeah but its a cheap and fucks up the targets its good against damn well, plenty of skimmers will need their jink save.

look at the hammerhead, av 12 on the side, and it relies on its 3+ shrouded/jink save, with the hydra thats now a 12 with a 5+.

aim that at a land speeder, ork deff coptas, eldar skimmers of all varieties, any necron vehicle, the list goes on an on.

sure theirs more ground targets. but chances are actually quite high that there will be a target that it'll excel against, and if not, then with its re-roll then its only performing slightly worse than if it was twinlinked and bs3, sure its hamstringed, but at the times when you really need it, REALLY REALLY need it, it'll be there and the times you don't need it at all, it'll still work.

>> No.21398859


It gets vastly better at AA, I'd say. 2 S8 hits per turn on average from one source is a big threat to most flyers and far more than most things can do. It is comparable to what a quad gun manned by a BS3 model will achieve (obviously, without extra Interceptor shooting, but then again less vulnerable). It's not likely to destroy most in one round of shooting, but very little is; you have to stack up your anti-air. For example, that plus a quad gun probably means a dead flyer.

And please do not bring Valks/Vendettas into this; they're broken and that's that. Nothing is efficient at dealing with them.

>> No.21398878

Why not Flak Missile Havocs then? If we're sinking points into anti-flyer anyway, they're much more bang for your points.

For 5 points more, they give you BS4, they can camp in a ruin or behind an Aegis line, no risk of being gunned down by Interceptor fire, AP3 (which is a big goddamn deal if you have a Flyrant to deal with), and Frag missiles if you're dealing with Hordes.

Also consider that if you end up with first turn and your Heldrake comes in on turn 2, your enemy will get a free shot at it with HIS flyers, plus any other anti-air he may be packing.

>> No.21398884

Winged Monstrous Creatures are your new favourite thing in the world. If it can get wings, take them. Then STRIKE FROM THE SKIES and let your s6 Monstrous do the work.

>> No.21398962

Ok, so ignoring Vendetta shenanigans, what is your anti-flier battleplan? What do you do with your fliers? I'm kicking around adding a Storm Eagle to my Iron Warriors force. Daemonic Posession for a 5++ save, ignoring shaken and stunned and regenerating hull points at the cost of passengers. Load it up with something cheap like a blob of CC marines.

>> No.21398967


Ymgarls might be the answer, braw. I have a buddy running 2 units of 10 and he's had plenty of success with them. They're expensive but they tear their way through both Blobs and Gunlines, especially with T5 up so they mostly ignore Overwatch fire from Lasguns and the attacks from the Guardsmen in combat. Not to mention any reprisal fire the following turn.

You get to mess with your opponent's head by making him too terrified to move anywhere near terrain in case a unit or vehicle gets pounced upon, and with 2-3 attacks each with Rending you can easily shred a tank in one round thanks to never hitting on worse than 3+. It's a unit he can't bring all of his guns to bear on and something he has to prepare for because when they show up he will lose something.

The main thing to watch out for is being too aggressive with the unit though, as you might throw them forward only for your opponent to swamp the terrain feature with his grunts and kill your guys in hibernation.

The best place I've seen is on a flank, hopefully within easy reach of the centre of his lines ready to tear into them the turn they arrive.

>> No.21398970


I may be wrong, but I believe the best AA plan is to either ignore the enemy flyers, or if you can't, then you should be using Helldrakes?

>> No.21398988

>you should be using Helldrakes?
See: Aegis Defence Line with gun emplacement, Flakk Havocs. Both do the job just as well, and other stuff besides.

>> No.21398996


Forgot you guys got flakk. MUST BE NICE


>> No.21399017

my AA plan as a tau player is twinlinked missile pods. they work well enough on ground forces when not shooting air, my secondary is broadsides if they have nothing else to shoot at, twinlinked goes a long way, and even a flyer can't shrug off a st10 hit. My last line is firewarriors, st5 means they can't do shit to the front of a valk/vend/storm raven. but against most other fliers they have good range and can actually glance them. again if they don't have better targets.

However its hard to ignore a fully loaded storm raven with termis and dreadnought heading straight toward your lines.

>> No.21399030

I've swapped out LF for more GH, Guardsmen, Vendettas and the ADL with 4xAC to help me combat Flyers. The beauty of double-plasma GH is when games use random objectives (our tourney scene does but I know many that don't) and you roll up Skyfire you're laughing as you get to swamp that point and flake melta and plasma shots skyward. While scoring. In power armour. With counter-attack. And Wolf Banners. Always Wolf Banners.

I don't rate TWC cav: they're too expensive and if you want to make them more survivable you either need to combo up Rune Priests (4+ Invul from Divination and Endurance from Biomancy) which is random as fuck and may not work or splash out on the odd shield and maybe a TWC Lord which is not cheap.

I try to design lists that can tackle GK, Necrons, Guard and Tzeentch Daemons. Especially the Daemons because those new Flamers and Screamers are broke as fuck.

>> No.21399050

Railguns. Twin-Linked Railguns on Broadsides. That puts the shits up Flyers no end. With 3 of them and re-rolls to hit you're basically throwing 6 dice to try to get a hit and statistically you should. When hit every Flyer in the game bar Daemonic ones (just the Heldrake for now) has to Jink or get fucked up.

>> No.21399078

The Storm Eagle wouldn't necessarily be AA, I was more curious what measures other players take and how long a Possessed Eagle would survive up there.

>> No.21399083

yeah i once got two hits with a broadside on a storm raven, and for my rolls for their effects i got two ones.

but it was a lone missile from a deathrain suit that ended up glancing it and killing it.

>> No.21399095

Storm Eagles can be given Possession too, which is kinda delicious with the new 'dex.

>> No.21400794

DE planes can take Flickerfields for 5++ too.

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