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[ERROR] No.20985837 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

We know the Necrons are conquering the Webway and are moving their massive fleets through the pathways of the Webway.

The discovery and invasion of Commorragh by the Necron legions is inevitable. Just imagine an Armada of Necron Tomb Ships crashing into the skies of the Dark City, Monoliths descending from above summoning forth legions after legions of deathless unfeeling Warriors, C'tan Shards obliterating the black spires of the City with just a flex of their immense power, and scarabs swarming forth into every corner of the city hunting the living and devouring them.

The battle will be a sight to be seen. Finally a foe that is immune to the treachery of the Dark Eldar and who inspires fear in their rotten hearts. No longer safe, the Necrons will bring WAR to Commorragh.

>> No.20985847

>>20985837
>Hey guys, my fanfiction says it so it must be true!

The Necrons have a small, abandoned section of the webway to play with and that's about it.

>> No.20985855

No matter how hard the Necrons strive against the Dark Eldar, all their efforts are doomed to remain an insignificant side chapter in that great tale of fear, hatred and personal betrayal that is the BLOOD FEUD.

>> No.20985864

Do you have any fucking idea how many Dark Eldar there ARE?

That would be like breaking into the world's largest hive of evil, poisonous bees and expecting to make it out alright.

>> No.20985868

>>20985864

Worked out pretty well for the Space Marines.

>> No.20985878

>>20985868

That's only because Vect let them! It's not like the Dark Eldar would lose to the ultrasmurfs in their own codex. Right? Right?

>> No.20985879

>>20985864
Would it matter how many cattle are present for the slaughter?

It won't end well for the Dark Eldar.

>>20985847
>Implying the Necrons aren't expanding their rule in the Webway and are pouring their fleets inside

>>20985855
Ahhh...Tahril.

Your ''Blood Feud'' will pale in comparison to the Sacking of COMMORRAGH!

>> No.20985884

>>20985868

The Salamanders broke into the equivalent of a city block in Commoragh and had a hard time of it.

>>20985879

Yeah, I'm sure running into a dimension full of untold billions of combat sadists is a real smart idea and will totally work out well.

>> No.20985885

Ends in a robo-orgy.

>> No.20985901

>>20985884
''Their number is Legion. Their name is Death''

Totally. The Dark Eldar will have the fight of their miserable lives once DEATH itself comes for them.

>> No.20985915

>>20985884
>The Salamanders broke into the equivalent of a city block in Commoragh and had a hard time of it.

They had an easy time at first, when they were just cutting their way through the slum districts and fighting off scattered groups of Hellions, Mandrakes, and other trash. Once they hit High Commoragh and the Wyches and organised Kabalite forces got involved, they started dying *very* quickly. To the point where they'd have been shortly wiped out if they hadn't been allowed to flee.

>>20985879
>Implying the Necrons aren't expanding their rule in the Webway and are pouring their fleets inside
>Implying you've actually got a source for that claim

>> No.20985951

>>20985915
>Implying I don't!

Lets add the fluff that says that Necron fleets are prowling the Webway searching for fresh harvest and prey. This is a recipe for disaster for the Eldar. Imagine them attacking the Craftworlds from their Webway access points.

Marvelous!

>> No.20985960

>>20985884
I'd say more than a city block.

>Battle was joined from one side of High Commorragh to the other, and before long it devolved into a melee of terrifying proportions. The streets seethed with violence, but the Space Marines held their own. Entire sections of High Commorragh burned as the invading Space Marines cut down or incinerated each new breed of horror that fell upon them.

>> No.20985980

>>20985960
Huh...If Space Marines can do that damage.

How strong was that Marine force? A chapter worth or less?

>> No.20985985

>>20985951
Except no, you don't. That states they managed to get their Dolmen gates up and running and pushed out the Eldar they found in there. In other words, they got rid of the Eldar who were occupying what was essentially Necron-controlled, albeit unused, webway territory.

Until you can find some sources indicating the Necrons gaining access to the Eldar-controlled bulk of the Webway, rather than being confined to the spars they conquered during the War in Heaven, this is pure fanfiction.

>> No.20985995

>>20985915
Where's the story of the Salamander incursion? The newest DE book?

>> No.20986001

>>20985980
Beginning of the next paragraph says "almost five hundred strong".

>> No.20986011

>>20985995

Just the 5E Dark Eldar Codex.

>> No.20986025

>>20985995
Yea. Vect lured them in and deliberatly caused problems with Commoragh's response in order to assassinate three rivals and discredit the rule of their successors. When the Space Marines had fled, he was able to claim power in the aftermath.

>> No.20986042

I'm fairly certain in the Necron Codex it says that while the Necrons can force their way into the webway using their gates, the webway itself tries to eject them out gradually, so I doubt they could make it all the way to Commorragh, or at least not be there for long.

>> No.20986067

>Librarian Hestion summoned a storm of his own, a raging inferno in the shape of a flaming drake that tore the Ravagers out of the sky one by one.

Flaming drake eh...

>> No.20986119

>>20985985
If the Eldar managed to gain access to the Necron part of the Webway, then so can the Necrons.

The Webway is a labyrinth of mazes and ruin. It is impossible for Eldar to guard and seal all its pathways. As I said, it is inevitable that a discovery and confrontation will happen between the Dark Eldar and Necrons in the future.

>> No.20986330

"Aeons have passed since [the War in Heaven]. The Old Ones are gone, and the webway itself has become a tangled and broken labyrinth. Many Dolmen Gates were lost or abandoned during the time of the Great Sleep, and many more were destroyed by the Eldar. Those that remain grant access to but a small portion of the webway, much of that voluntarily sealed off by the Eldar to prevent further contamination. Yet the webway is immeasurably vast, and even these sundered skeins allow the Necrons a mode of travel that far outpaces those of the younger races."

5e Codex Necrons, page 8. Necrons will never threaten Eldar dominion of the webway, or approach anywhere near the Dark City.

>> No.20986396

>>20986330
I wouldn't say NEVER!

>> No.20986424

>implying Necrons arent the worst written faction in 40k, and thats saying something

>> No.20986440

>>20986424
More worse than the Tau?

You kidding me?

>> No.20986441

Why would the crons care about the webway? Its a slower method of transportation than their own ships and there are no particular resoursces to be found there. Why even bother?

>> No.20986476

>>20986441
>Its a slower method of transportation than their own ships
Nope.

>> No.20986480

>>20986441
Last time i checked crons don't have any sort of significant FTL technology making the webway their only avenue for quick transport

>> No.20986503

>>20986480
>>20986476
B..but... Inertia Engines?

>> No.20986561

>>20986503
they were fast but still not ftl. remember the 3 ships that landed on mars had to fly through the entire solar system before they got lit the fuck up/

>> No.20986564

>>20986476
>>20986480
Admittedly I haven't read the new fluff, but I'm pretty sure they had Infinite Acceleration Drives in the old fluff. That would mean that they would be able to travel to anywhere and arrive the very same moment they left. The Necrontyr were the ones with the crappy FTL. But like I said I haven't read the new stuff so I could be wrong.

>> No.20986601

>>20986561
Oldcron ships still needed to slow down when approaching their target.

>As with the Eldar, Necron tactics are dependent on the quality of their ships, which are, if anything, even more advanced. No Necron ship has ever been witnessed translating to or from Warp Space. On repeated occasions, though, Necron vessels have appeared well within maximum sensory range without any approach being detected. During the attack on Horloth it was reported that on first sighting the Necron fleet was noticeably decelerating, which raises the possibility that whatever their means of propulsion it is so fast that when moving at full speed their vessels are undetectable. The fact that they slow down to fight would indicate that even they find it impossible to perform fine manoeuvres or accurately target enemies while travelling at full speed. As with so much else about the Necrons this is a mystery that may only be solved by the capture of one of their ships intact. I fear though that such an enterprise would incur an unbearable cost in ships.

>> No.20986675

Any reason why they nerfed the Necron space speed?

Too imbalanced?

>> No.20986699

>>20986675

Probably. Necrons having instantaneous and risk-free travel puts them far above earlier established big bads (Chaos and nids) in threat level, since those are chained by slow speed and in case of Chaos unreliability and Cadian buttplug.

>> No.20986709

>>20986675
Because why the fuck not. We raping old fluff, might as well rape that part too.

>> No.20986721

>>20986699
Don't the Nids have the Narwhals..Narvals...oh whatever they are called. They have things that enable them to reach FTL using Gravity forces of star system.

That sounds like something the masters of science should be doing not animals.

>> No.20986727

>>20986675
puts a clear separation between technology and the warp, I guess.

>> No.20986740

>>20986699
At the same time though, I think a far more elegant solution could have been found than making the MASTERS OF SCIENCE WHO CAN TURN OFF EVERY STAR IN TEH UNIVERSE utterly dependent upon the creation of their ancient enemies.

>> No.20986745

>>20986721

Yeah but Narwhals are according to the Tyranid codex slower than warp travel. Nid main bulk is outside the galaxy still and their advance is not swift.

>> No.20986773

>>20986740
That just shows the ability to destroy every star in the galaxy is insignificant compared to the power of the Warp.

>> No.20986821

>>20986740
Well...the Necrons did rely on the C'tan for most of their Tech.

No C'tan =/= No advanced Real Space Tech

>> No.20986894

>>20986821
They can destroy the galaxy in the blink of an eye if they feel like it but they can't go faster than 140,000,000 miles an hour? Fo' shame.

And didn't they destroy the c'tan? If the c'tan, being so powerful and able to get such advanced tech, were destroyed by a race with such primitive FTL then I don't think they had much to offer.

>> No.20986923

>>20986894
One C'tan was truekilledforrealsies. The rest were shattered... somehow, and made the Necrons' bitches.

>> No.20986924

>>20986894
Nobody said the Necrons were the supreme masters of Science and Technology.

They don't have to excel in everything!

>> No.20986936

>>20986924
Well...

>Necrons were ever masters of transcendent physics, pocket dimensions and hyper-geometry, and these sciences are put to full effect wherever they can serve useful function.

>> No.20986953

>>20986924
They can crystallize time and bend the very fabric of reality as the please, but they obey the physics-imposed speed limit on space travel? They don't have be the best, they're already villain sues, but it feels contrived.

>> No.20986987

>>20986923
I heard about the C'tans' pokémonification and I think it sucks but whatever. If the 'crons had it in 'em to destroy or "shatter" the C'tan without access to good FTL then that's a plot hole. Not that 40k doesn't have those, but it's there is what I'm saying.

>> No.20987009

>>20986987
>I heard about the C'tans' pokémonification and I think it sucks

It's much better than the alternative, which was the previous codex. "C'TAN DID IT" was probably one of the most irritating things in the fluff.

>> No.20987031

>>20986953
>>20986936
Here is an explanation.

The light is a meta-physical concept that can only be understood through the eyes of Pyskers. In order to transcend it, which is impossible with normal means, you need to draw power from the realm of impossibility the Warp.

Through the Warp, the Impossible can be Possible. Through the Warp, Light speed can be achieved and surpassed.

Got it?

>> No.20987060

>>20987009
Sure it needed an overhaul, but it could have been done better than GW did. The C'tan needed to take a backseat and the Necrons needed some personality. The new codex did accomplish this but not in a way this anon thought satisfactory. It seems I'm in the minority on this one though and it really isn't that big a deal. I haven't read enough of the new fluff to make a judgement, but so far I'm not too fond of the way they decided to go with this.

>> No.20987079

>>20987031
But they already say 'fuck you' to every law of physics imaginable, the Impossible has been accomplished by the Necrons several times over. This drawback feels forced and is in many ways out of place with the rest of the fluff even though it's all written by the same people.

>> No.20987106 [SPOILER] 

>>20987009
what we had in the previous codex was an ancient race of godlike beings that the necrontyr saw as their saviors, ultimately dooming them, transforming their servants into souless machines designed to harvest other races for the survival and amusement of their new masters, all that after giving them the immortality so vehemently they asked for.
The deceiver was a being that used his powers to manipulate other races, the gothic war was a product of his machinations to destroy those vault spaceships.

it was grim, it fitted with the seeting, a race of beings that ultimately doomed themselves while searching for their own salvation and awakening almighty horrors that almost destroyed the galaxy.

now we have rogue trader era of sillyness and puding gods.
This is why we cannot have nice things

>> No.20987182

>>20987079
Look here this is the setting major rule :

-You don't have pyskers = You don't have your own FTL

The Tau and Necrons both suffer from this due to their lack of Pyskers.

>> No.20987183

Thaszar has begun to plunder the webway, and it isn't said that the Necrons have forgotten how to into new Dolmen Gates or wormholes so I could see them getting into the rest of the webway.

>> No.20987192

>>20986987
>If the 'crons had it in 'em to destroy or "shatter" the C'tan without access to good FTL then that's a plot hole.

Not it's not, and by that stage they did have good FTL, the webway.

>> No.20987219

I choose to ignore the new "Necrons use the Webway" fluff.

>> No.20987222

>>20986953
>villain-sue

In a ridiculously over the top setting like 40k, I´d usually scoff at such a term. But yeah the Necrons really are quite ridiculous now with their new fluff. Guess we can thank Ward for that.

Oh man, what if Ward were to write a fight between Necrons and Grey Knights lead by Draigo? My god, the sue-levels would be off the chart.

>> No.20987237

>>20987219
Okay.

>> No.20987240

>>20987222
Excuse me.

The Tyranids are Villain Sue. They overshadow all Villains in threat level. Even the Necrons are scrambling to unite their dynasties to fight them off.

>> No.20987244

>>20987106

I like the new angle because it goes for all too rarely used idea of an "almighty ancient evil" type doing its ancient evil thing and then getting destroyed and enslaved by its own minions.

Oldcron fluff was more like something you'd expect from Blizzard.

>> No.20987245

>>20987182
B-but it's so easy to get around if have complete mastery over the fabric of existence. They could manipulate time, take a detour through another dimension, fold space around themselves, teleport, etc. Or they could just build their own network of extra-dimensional portals, similar to the Webway. If they are limited to the crappiest FTL in the setting even though their tech is clearly capable of it then I call bullshit. Even if they couldn't build decent FTL with their tech they could just use the Shards, since those have hypothetically unlimited power projection capabilities.

>> No.20987246

>>20987219
You can not ignore Change. You can not ignore Progress. You can't ignore the Ward.

>> No.20987257

>>20987240

They're powerful because of their numbers, and only managed to "win" one entirely non-meaningful engagement in their own 5E codex.

Being a Villain Sue requires a lot, lot more.

>> No.20987259

>>20987240

Yet the greatest threat according to even the main rulebook is Chaos.

Chaos was also the one to stop the Emperor's expansion and make a carrot of him when no xeno could.

>> No.20987279

>>20987259
Chaos is just tsundere for Humanity, it will move to save it when Xeno start making real problems.

>> No.20987284

>>20987106
I liked the idea of the old C'tan as well, but they needed to take a step back or at least be caught up in something to occupy them in the fluff. And the Necrons needed some diversity. What they did was not the best solution though.

>> No.20987293

>>20987245
What can I say?

The Necrons are too stupid to utilize the potential of their tech to the fullest or research methods to overcome their weaknesses.

>> No.20987297

Old C'tan were just shitty Chaos Gods. Good riddance.

>> No.20987300

>>20987259

How? The Gods are too busy with the Great Game to focus their attention truly on the mortal world. Chaos are like the Orks that way. The traitors dont have the numbers to truly match the Imperium, the only true threat from Chaos are the Daemonic Incursions from Warpstorms since they are almost impossible to deal with. And they dont happen that often either.

>> No.20987305

>>20987259
Chaos is smalltime. Necrons wiped out life out of the galaxy in old fluff, and went to sleep because killing each other become increasingly old, while there was nothing to eat otherwise. Now that is a threat. While chaos couldn't even get past Cadia most of the times. Scary villains indeed.

>> No.20987306

>>20987245
Science isn't linear, just because you can do one thing doesn't necessarily mean you can do another.

>> No.20987317

>>20987305
>Necrons wiped out life out of the galaxy in old fluff, and went to sleep because killing each other become increasingly old

No, the Enslavers did most of the killing, the C'tan just couldn't live unless they got more numnums so they put the Necrons and themselves to sleep.

>> No.20987324

>>20987244
>Oldcron fluff was more like something you'd expect from Blizzard.
>archeologist necrons
>pirate necrons
>megalomaniac necrons
>lets keep the boss space marines with us and have a tea party with him and an eldar ranger oh great necron super king
>machines piloting other machines that pilot themselves
>they have more personality now, because, you know, disney cartoon supervillains have a lot of personality and they can talk!!!!

>> No.20987348

>>20987257
They wrecked a lot of shit in that Codex. All victories against them came at a crippling cost. Remember that every single Hive Fleet has the potential to topple the imperium. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE.

They can adapt and create immunity to your weapons, they can outthink your commanders with their immortal bug god, and that's just the Vanguard!

They ate 12 galaxies, DUDE, 12 Galaxies!

>> No.20987350

>>20985837

Does this mean the Dark Eldar will go the way of the Squats? I really do hate that ar

>> No.20987356

>>20987348
>They can adapt and create immunity to your weapons

They were out-adapted by the Tau.

Let that sink in for a minute.

>> No.20987362

>>20987356
Tau are actually innovative though. No one else is to the same degree, besides the Nids themselves.

>> No.20987364

On those people talking about FTL travel, they need to remember.

Even if you travel the speed of Light, Galaxy spanning distances is still a huge problem and FTL is pretty much slow even for then.

The Webway is instant travel.

>> No.20987379

Does anyone else love Op's picture.

Imagine the banter between the Lord and the Farseer, imagine if they settle their differences through talk instead of battle.

Or through song, via rap-battle.

>> No.20987382

>>20987306
>Science isn't linear
My point was that the tech they posses can be utilized to reach FTL speeds and yet they don't use it. They have had millions of years to figure that out. For some reason they don't, even though they are supposedly the most tech-savvy schmucks in the setting. If a civilization invents the chair yet insists on sitting on the floor then they are either idiots or it's intentional. And they can still use the Shards.

>> No.20987384

>>20987350
Jokes on you.

The Squats are back.

>> No.20987392

>>20987348
I agree, the general feel is that every victory is either pyrrich or useless, as it's only a matter of time before even more Tyranids reach the galaxy.

They are cunning and savage, they can curbstomp a world in hours but prepare an invasion with infiltrations lasting centuries.

And above all, they're frightening because they are not mindless beasts, but are led by a cold minded purpose.

>> No.20987397

>>20987348
>immunity

Eeeh, I´ll just ask ol´ pappy Nurgle to whip up some new plague I can toss in the backyard to clear up those darn nids that seems to pop up every now and then.

>> No.20987401

>>20987364
>The Webway is instant travel
Not really, it still takes some time. Oldcrons had instant travel. INstant travel as in that they arrived the very same moment they left. They just got nerfed is all.

>> No.20987404

>>20987382
>My point was that the tech they posses can be utilized to reach FTL speeds and yet they don't use it.

But do they actually possess that technology, or are you just assuming they do?
I doubt you're aware of the limitations on the technology of a Space Fantasy race.

>> No.20987405

>>20987382
Like the post says above, Maybe they do have FTL Travel. Maybe the Webway is just faster and better.

>> No.20987409

>>20987356
The Tau got screwed over with the Nid immunities.

Nids went straight immune to both Ion and Plasma weapons and then the Imperials and Necron showed up to save the day!

>> No.20987414

>>20987397
Sorry Pappy, doesn't work on the 'Nids.

>> No.20987427

>>20987414
>citation needed

>> No.20987439

>>20987409
>Nids went straight immune to both Ion and Plasma weapons and then the Imperials and Necron showed up to save the day!

The explanation was that the Tau adapted their tactics enough that they forced the Tyranids to "waste biomass" adapting to counter said tactics, and they ran out and lost.

>> No.20987445

>>20987404
They can manipulate time for one, and they can fold space. They can teleport and they can manipulate reality anywhere in the galaxy. Anyone of these has the potential to be applied to allow for FTL, or at least virtual FTL. If for some reason it doesn't work out they STILL have the hypothetically omnipotent Shards.

>> No.20987456

Fluff-wise I miss the oldcrons. Their threat balanced out the nids threat. They were kicking ass and cleansing everything and they were 'just getting started'. You could counter 'wait until the nids arrive' with 'wait until the crons get down to business'

Now the Tyranids are going to kill everyone eventually and the Necrons are as threatening as the Tau

>> No.20987458

>>20987439
You really should stop getting your Tau fluff from TIDF.

>> No.20987468

>>20987456
>Wait until all the Necrons awaken.
Thats still a defcon threat bro, a fully awakened tomb world pretty much brushed off the Ultramarines finest

>> No.20987471

>>20987445
>They can manipulate time for one, and they can fold space. They can teleport and they can manipulate reality anywhere in the galaxy.

But to how large a degree?

>If for some reason it doesn't work out they STILL have the hypothetically omnipotent Shards.

The "omnipotent" part is obviously hyperbole.

>> No.20987473

>>20987445
The Necrons use the shards only in emergencies. They can't risk the C'tan escaping.

>> No.20987498

Orks managed to invade DElfdar land, so I'm pretty sure the Necrons to do so too.

>> No.20987514

>>20987458

>> No.20987521

>>20987514

>> No.20987528

>>20987468
Even if they are awakened, they aren't united.

We'll get War of secession 2 and then we will see the Nids eat them all up.

>> No.20987546

>>20987521
That doesn't say they "ran out", that says they focused on gaunts nad the like, so in the end they were easy to deal with.

>> No.20987548

>>20987528
So basically what you are saying is.. the Necrons, who had a great united empire as long as they had some big enemy to kill.


Won't gather together to fight some big enemy, Necrons are racial supremists, they'd rather unite and kill the swarm of bugs than kill each other when that problem comes along.

>> No.20987580

>>20987548
They Necrons are just a shadow of their former selves and also a good number of their leaders are Insane.

They don't stand a prayer against the Nids.

>> No.20987623

>>20985915
Just remember, these were also the Nigger Marines. Imagine if the Ultramarines had attempted it. Dark Eldar's shit would get pushed in so hard, even the Ulthwe craftworld's anuses would quiver.

>> No.20987656

>>20987471
>But to how large a degree?
They can travel through time, manipulate it in a localized area, crystallize it somehow and Emprah knows what else. I don't know to what degree they can fold space, but they can create pocket dimensions which they could use in a fashion similar to the Webway. Or they can just do like the DEldar and store away a few suns for power generation, even though they probably don't need suns for that. They can obviously teleport at will and there really shouldn't be any restrictions other than the power drain which should be easily solved. And they can bend reality to their will since they can blow up any and all stars in the galaxy remotely. But really, just being able to shift in and out of reality at different locations should be enough.

>The "omnipotent" part is obviously hyperbole.
'Nigh omnipotent' didn't have the same ring to it. And the fact is that if it is possible by the laws of physics in the 40k verse then the C'tan can do it. They are as omnipotent as anything in the physical world can be. The C'tan can also travel across the universe in an instant. That would imply that it is physically possible to do so. Yet the Necrons can't for some reason.

>> No.20987672

>>20987528
>Nids eat crons
Wait, the Tyranids can eat metal now? When did that happen?

>> No.20987683

>>20987672
Technically they even eat minerals from a planet, so yes, they can.

>> No.20987685

>>20987672
The Nids have destroyed Tomb Worlds in their path in the new fluff.

They don't have to eat them. Just overwhelm them or catch them by surprise

>> No.20987686

>>20987672
Not just metal but effin necrodermis, wtf?

>> No.20987688

>>20987672

Pyrovores.

>> No.20987695

>>20987427
tbh I read it on teej so take it with a grain of pestilence

>> No.20987710

>>20987688
Yeah they can eat metal and rock but not Necrodermis.

>> No.20987744

>>20987683
I thought they only stripped the biomass of the planet down so all that's left is a barren dead world. Who was the smart guy who decided to recon it so Nids can eat metal now? Because, you know, an entirely biological army that doesn't have a need for metal being able to consume metals makes no fucking sense.

>> No.20987769

>>20987744
Even in the old fluff, they even took atmosphere. They just leave the planet as a dead bare rock.

>> No.20987772

>>20987744
Well they USUALLY get their mineral content from the plants and animals, but sometimes if there's not enough they'll eat a few rocks to supplement it.

>> No.20987774

>>20987744
Biological organisms make use of metals too. Nid critters have also been noted to have adamantium laced tusks and such.
There's also the fact that the Nids aren't just dumb animals and would destroy the Necrons while dormant to stop having to tangle with them later.

>> No.20987780

>>20987695
Nurgle's diseases do affect the Nids.
And the Orks don't run entirely on 'magic make-believe science' (it's more like 'psychic WD-40').

Don't believe everything /tg/ says.

>> No.20987804

>>20987774
How do they know where the Necrons are anyway? It can't be Warp signatureand the Necrons did make sure not to be disturbed, so how come the 'Nids seem to know where they are? Any explanation in the canon?

>> No.20987822

>>20987769
You basically just repeated the first sentence in my post. My point is that according to the fluff now, they don't even need to leave a bare rock behind. They can now consume the entire planet, including the core. I know the fluff in 40k is stupidly unbalanced, but at least in the old fluff the Nids largely ignored the Necrons, or couldn't see them because the Crons were both inorganic and lacked a psychic presence.

>> No.20987832

>>20987804
>Land on planet
>Accidentally wake up some Necrons

or

>Land on planet
>Burrow about and hit a tomb

>> No.20987840

>>20987780
B-but if you're on /tg/ and you're telling me not believe /tg/ then what am I to believe? I suddenly lost all sense of certainty. WHY?! WHY would you do this to me?!

>> No.20987871

>>20987832
But how do they know which planets to avoid like they used to? That's where all my brainhurt comes from.

>> No.20987878

>>20987710
>Nids adapt themselves and acquire the ability to eat Living Metal

Done.

>> No.20987881

>>20987871
The planets were mostly dead

>> No.20987890

>>20987324

Disney villains are better than pic related, which is what the old c'tan were.

>> No.20987892

>>20987871
They don't. They know which planets to aim for beacause of the Genestealer vanguards.

>> No.20987894

>>20987878
This is why I love and hate the 'Nids.

>> No.20987898

>>20987822
What is it you're asking, in the first place? If Tyranids threat to destroy something important, Necrons try to stop them. If the Tyranids win, they get metal. What's the problem?

>> No.20987908

>>20987892
>>20987881
I guess that makes sense. Thank you, kind Sirs!

>> No.20987914

>>20987439
>he explanation was that the Tau adapted their tactics enough that they forced the Tyranids to "waste biomass" adapting to counter said tactics, and they ran out and lost
That's wrong, and if you had taken 5 minutes to actually read the Codex you would know this.

>> No.20987929

>>20987871
The Nids Avoided Solemnace. One the earliest Necron Tomb Worlds to awaken. Trazyn must have summoned his forces and intimidated the Nids into leaving his domain alone.

>> No.20987931

>>20987514
>>20987521
Note that the text doesn't state what you claim.

>> No.20987941

>>20987881
No. The Planets were plentiful of biomass. The Necrons avoided them because of the threat of the Necrons.

>> No.20987953

>>20987890
They weren't that bad in terms of mystery. They had defined goals, motivations and some backstory, and could really be compared to the sort of eldritch abominations Lovecraft wrote about. If you think that's too "one note" and then compare them to Disney villains you're either trolling or you haven't thought this through.

>> No.20987976

>>20987953
>could really be compared to the sort of eldritch abominations Lovecraft wrote about
MASTER OF MELODRAMA, WHICH THE C'TAN ROSE TO A HIGH ART BEFORE HUMANS EVOLVED

>> No.20987999

>>20987953
I don't think they were very lovecraft. They were a Terminator joke with the motivation of
>C'TAN HUNGRY, C'TAN EAT TASTY FOOD

>> No.20988005

>>20987898
I'm not asking anything, I'm saying retconning the nids with the ability to eat inorganic matter is dumb, since they can now just consume and process the matter of entire worlds.

Unless this is GW actually moving the plot forward, that is. If so, then the Nids have won. Having access to both the organic and inorganic mass of an entire planet means they're now unstoppable, regardless of anything the other factions do. At least them being unable to consume inorganic mass gave them a weakness. Why even bother putting out new codexs at this point?

>> No.20988018

>>20987976
You got to admit, they are as much as cheesy as the Chaos Gods.

>>20987929
Here.

The planet was rich of life, but its Necron Owners would not let the Nids eat it up.

>> No.20988043

>>20988005
What the hell? They just process metals, humans do that too.

>> No.20988074

>>20987953

Lovecraft gods were much more vague (Whisperer in the Darkness suggests that Azathoth may be just the earthling anthropomorphization of a weird cosmic phenomenon) and certainly not masters of melodrama and grim reapers who created fear of death and want to rise and feast on life energy. They're very comparable to Starcraft ancient evil baddies who want to create hybrid armies and wipe the galaxy clean of life.

>> No.20988078

>>20988043
The Pyrovore description says they can eat rocks. What's stopping them now from taking an entire planet and turning it into more nids? Even one planet is a ridiculous amount of mass.

>> No.20988094

>>20988078
They don't make gaunts out of earth and rocks, they use minerals to strenghten carapace and stuff like that. Biomass is still needed to make creatures.

>> No.20988106

>>20988078
You're from the short bus, aren't you? Just because it can eat rock doesn't mean that it is made of rock. Just because it can eat rock doesn't mean that it gains suitable sustinance from it. Nor does it mean that the Tyranids can just make shit out of rock.

>> No.20988108

>>20988078
Gezz...

What's stopping the Nids from creating Crystalline Nids or Metal Nids.

>> No.20988111

>>20987348
> That every single Hive Fleet has the potential to topple the imperium. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE.
>Every single Black Crusade has the potential to topple the Imperium.
EVERY. SINGLE. ONE

>> No.20988117

>>20987999
>TYRANIDS HUNGRY, TYRANIDS EAT TASTY FOOD

>KHORNE ANGRY, KHORNE SMASH

>ORKS HAPPY, ORKS SMASH

And then we have pretty much all Spehss Muhreens/Grey Knights/Inquisition/Sororitas attitude towards everything.
>X IS HERETICAL/TREASONOUS/ALIEN, X MUST BURN

>DELDAR HORNY, DELDAR FUCK

And most of everyone else is on the receiving end most of the time. If you're gonna complain about shallow motivations then you're going to get a brain tumor.

>> No.20988119

>>20988108
They already use inorganic components to strengthen their carapace. It's no different from how the Imperium uses inorganic components to make their armours. What's your point?

>> No.20988121

>>20988074
this might be the fault of the setting more than anything else.

Tell me your opinion on Daemons. Do they seem alien, scary, and unknowable to you?

>> No.20988125

>>20988094
Okay, that's not too bad then. However, are the Nids carbon-based? If so, they could just use the carbon found in almost everything to make more gaunts.

>> No.20988146

>>20988108
So it begins...

>> No.20988150

>>20988074
I was thinking more in terms of Nyarlathotep than Azathoth, but ok, I can admit it wasn't a very good comparison.

>> No.20988153

>>20988111
Nah.

The Crusades have been stated to be launched not with the intention of destroying the Imperium. They were launched so Abaddon can acquire power, loot, and do his own thing.

Seriously, an entire Crusade just to dig up a Sword.

Anyways, only the 13th crusade has a chance of actual getting past Cadia.

>> No.20988207

>>20988153
Actually*

The Hive Fleets? That's a different story. Ever heard of the snowball effect?

The Fleets if left alone long enough they will gain enough momentum to be serious threat. It doesn't matter how small or big a fleet is, it is all the same.

And if they aren't taken care off quickly, then its gameover man gameover.

>> No.20988223

>>20988106
>short bus
Hah, if anything I'm probably just overthinking exactly how the nids are able to process mass. If they're able to break down inorganic matter to its base atomic components, then they can pretty much rearrange the matter into any configuration they want, including organic matter. If they're unable to break down mass to such an extent, then that isn't so bad.

>> No.20988255

>>20988223
>If they're unable to break down mass to such an extent, then that isn't so bad.

They can't, otherwise they could just wander around asteroid fields and eat uninhabited planets in dead systems and build up enough biomass to just bum rush the entire universe.

>> No.20988257

>>20988223
Short bus, then. Overthinking is not the same as intelligent. Especially not when said overthinking is not tempered by common sense or a basic understanding of the setting and/or actual science.

>> No.20988266

>>20988150
Actually, comparing the C'tan to the Elder Gods instead of the Old Gods is not TOO far off. Just add searing hatred and hunger for all organic life and there are some parallels to draw. Seeing as how that's DERELITH! who wrote them howver, one could argue that's not a good thing.

>> No.20988273

>>20988255
And you, just break down their enemies, Gauss-style. Yeah, the short bus is strong in that guy.

>> No.20988322

>>20988146
FEEL MY STING!

>> No.20988344

>>20988322
The reddit is strong in this one.

>> No.20988381

>>20988344
Psst, that quote of his is actually a reference to an Infinity Engine game voiceset. I forget which one exactly.

>> No.20988439

>>20988257
Common sense and actual science in the 40k universe? Are we talking about the same setting? We're talking about a universe where the Gods are sentient psychic collections of feelings, and is populated by factions including one who's weapons only work because they think they should. Are you telling me that a faction somehow converting inorganic matter to organic is hard to believe by comparison?

>> No.20988496

>>20988439
I'd say that you need something rather crucial before you write a post like that. That thing?

Sources.

Give me a solid source that orks' weaponry runs on nonsense. Go ahead, I'm waiting. While you're out there trying to find a source, you can grab one for the matter conversion thing as well.

Go ahead.

>> No.20988541

>>20988496
Ta-Da!

>> No.20988688

>>20988541
do you have the story about the Imperial (don't remember is inquistator or admech) who picked up an ork gun off a dead ork who he had seen use that gun to kill people and it was a cardboard tube with a wood handle?

>> No.20988697

>>20988541
>"I believe"
>In-universe hypothesis by one character

Yes, truly a solid source.

>> No.20988724

>>20988121

No, but that's not the point of them. The Daemons are supposed to be the "negative" (as defined by GW) emotions of humanity given form, they are supposed to be familiar.

>> No.20988738

>>20988688
There isn't such a story.

>> No.20988779

>>20988541
What you're not also showing is that that blurb comes from a bit written by a low-ranking biology-specialist of the admech.

More recent fluff emphasizes the idea that Ork tech is unwieldy and prone to jamming in anyone's hands but an Orks, and that the psychic-Waaagh effect is really more of a psychic 'duct-tape'/'wd-40' of sorts. See FF-game's ref. Rogue-Trader, especially Into the Storm.

>> No.20988884

>>20988697
>>20988779
>Report written by a scientist who tested and probed Ork Tech
>NOPE WE DISCREDIT HIS FINDINGS FOR NO REASON

This blurp comes from the latest Orkish Codex so the assumption that Ork tech only work because of magic is valid.

>> No.20988911

>>20988884
Actually, he doesn't examine ork tech, he reads reports.
He's a biologist, and not even a magos, so well, he's not the best source.

>> No.20988917

>>20988697
>>20988688
this thread is getting more and more pathetic.

>> No.20988920

Oh yeah, he uses "nominally" in such a way that his entire argument's bs anyway.

>> No.20988926

If the Orks believed hard enough that Emperor was a living war god of humanity, he'd come back to life.

>> No.20988939

>>20988926
Er, they do.

Hell, they think Titans are metal bodies for him, that's what gave them the idea for Gargants.

>> No.20988950

>>20988779
Stop moving the goalpost. You asked for a source and got one.

>> No.20988961

>>20988939

They don't believe it hard enough, because the Emperor has not risen from his throne.

>> No.20988976

>>20988884
It's not finite you fucking idiot. It's an in-universe theory, proposed by an extremely low-ranking admech (more priest than scientist).

Do you not know the definition of a Scientific Theory? Do you fail reading comprehension so badly that you are unaware that the term "I believe" does not mean "It is fact".

Hell in current fluff it's even theorized that Meks might be unconsciously overcharging engines one vehicles they plan on painting red, as opposed to it being a truly mystical effect.

You cite one blurb, that is nothing more than a theory made by an entry-level biology-major tech-priest (the same guys who refuse to believe Tau tech is superior, or Eldar even have technology), and assume it's a valid assumption. That's like reading a paper published by a college-level bio-chemist that hypothesizes the work a mechanic does to your car is pure make-believe and voodoo magic, and assuming it's a fact.

>> No.20988985

>>20988950
I didn't ask for the source. I know the source and the context already.

>> No.20988990

>>20988961
Even if they did, he wouldn't rise from his throne. Nothing would change of hist status.

>> No.20989000

>>20988976
> 2012
> Scientific Theory about 40k fluff
> ISHYGDDT

>> No.20989018

>>20989000
>2012
>assuming any fluff related to 40k is actually valid

>> No.20989026

>>20988990

Except Orks believing hard enough.

They can shoot bullets out of a stick they believe to be a shoota. If there was enough of them believing in a thing, it would become true no matter what.

>> No.20989038

>>20989026

No matter what /tg/ tells you, Ork psychic fields are not space magic.

>> No.20989040

>>20988976
>the same guys who refuse to believe Tau tech is superior
They're right on that, though. Backwards as the Imperium is, most of it's tech is leagues ahead.

>or Eldar even have technology
All of the fluff is actually the opposite. They go to great lengths to tell how fucking awesome Eldar tech is ("the masters of laser weaponry" or something along those lines), and how mundane the Eldar treat it.

>> No.20989047

>>20989038

>believe in something hard enough and it happens despite the fact that it shouldn't
>IN SPESS

Not space magic he says.

>> No.20989051

>>20988976
What I see is a report of a Scientist who examined captured Ork Tech and theorized a plausible reason why Orkish tech doesn't work in human hands.

His theory is the soundest explanation for this than anything else presented and thus will be taken as truth until it is proven false.

>> No.20989061

Necrons were utter bullshit in BFG but I did think Inertialess Drives were a pretty cool bit of tech.

It's not even that they don't have an upper limit, it's that it's not observed.

>> No.20989066

>>20989040
>All of the fluff is actually the opposite. They go to great lengths to tell how fucking awesome Eldar tech is ("the masters of laser weaponry" or something along those lines), and how mundane the Eldar treat it.

No they don't, unless you dredge up old RT era or 2e fluff where the Techpriests supposedly hate the Eldar for being so 'superior'. Now they don't even fathom how it works, and see it as the bunch of pseudo-bone/plastics that it is.

>> No.20989069

>>20989026
>They can shoot bullets out of a stick they believe to be a shoota. If there was enough of them believing in a thing, it would become true no matter what.

[citation needed]
That, you will not find anywhere.

>> No.20989076

>>20988976
>in current fluff it's even theorized that Meks might be unconsciously overcharging engines one vehicles they plan on painting red
Do you have a quote for that? I can't find it in the Ork codex.

>> No.20989100

>>20989040
>the same guys who refuse to believe Tau tech is superior

No such thing. Here is the Admech Priest admiting that Tau Tech matches and in some cases exceeds its imperial counterparts.

See? The Admechs are unbiased. They are scientists first and priests second.

>> No.20989106

>>20989100
Oppps forgot the image.

>> No.20989107

>>20989066
here's some not RT or 2e fluff.

"Truly these creatures are one of the most advanced races in our galaxy"

>> No.20989113

>>20989107
>open admission that Eldar laser weaponry is more efficient

>> No.20989116

>>20989051
And I am of the opinion that you are reading far too much into it.

I see a report made by a biologist priest of a religious order that believes praying hard enough and applying parchment and wax will repair a mechanical device, theorizing that the jumbled, redundant, and haphazardly built piece of technology cannot work.

It's the same thing as someone of one religious faith decreeing that an opposing religious faith is wrong. The difference is that it's applied to technology instead, but with even less understanding than the arguments religious zealots use.

>> No.20989127

Rolled 5, 6 = 11

>>20989026
You are fucking retarded. The Ork gestalt psychic ability tends to make ork tech a bit more reliable, but it's not "lolwishes" power their weapons and vehicles.

Stick to your /tg/ trollwank, leave the Orkz to the grown-ups.

>> No.20989135

>>20989051
Fun fact, Anzion's reports are mentioned mentioned in the codex as being abridged, because Genator-Major Anzion kept making speculation, rendering the whole thing suspect.

The fact that Anzion is wrong about Ork weapons not working in human hands would cause a bit of a problem with his theorum anyway.


I'm perfectly happy to belive Genetor-Major Anzion is an excellent Genetor, but I think we should send in some Magi Xenologis and Technicus to review the technical matter, sometime in the run up to the 42nd millenium.

>> No.20989137

>after defeating oldones enslavers killing shit
>everyone goes to go sleepn while shit fixes itself
>some c'tan fght each other over remains treats before bed. (or engineered by the deciever being one of the weaker C'tan.) silent king attacks. only to realizes hes been had again as his people lie desimated after battling the C'tan only for the deciever to swoop in and finish the job. he leaves in shame.
> either way some c'tan shattered
>some crons wake up some serving serving remaining C'tan.
>others had their C'tan shattered and are now more free to act like tards. and persue there own agenda's relatively free of C'tan influence.
>Some tech just won't work with out C'tan intervention them being THE FUCKING EQUIVILANT TO GODS OF PHYSICAL REALITY.
>so newcron forced look for alternative FTL drive as enertialless drive need c'tan hax

>> No.20989141

>>20989107
>>20989113

>eldar bright lances
>can't beat imperial lasercannons except against AV14
>also more expensive

Sure is superior.

>> No.20989144

>>20989107
>>20989113

If we're citing the claims of in-universe individuals as the wide-spread belief of the entire admech order, then it should be noted that all Eldar look at the Ork race as the perfect species.

>> No.20989160

>>20989076
the citation is the fact you can paint your Ork models red and not have to pay for the upgrades.

>> No.20989170

>>20989144 Eldar look at the Ork race as the perfect species.

Deep down, Eldar just want to fight and love dakka. The Orks are what Eldar want to be, so of course they would view them as the best.

>> No.20989182

>>20989141
The Brightlance rule was junk from the start. It would be better off as just a Lascannon, and it's a case of the fluff implying one thing and the rules doing another.

It was in the era (I guess we are still in it) where games dev is hitting two buttons alternately: Nerf Eldar and Buff Space Marines.

>> No.20989189

>>20989170
He's referring to one blurb where an eldar hails the Ork society as strong and perfect. This blurb is written by an eldar who's surname is "the perverse", or something like that.

>> No.20989199

>>20989135
>but I think we should send in some Magi Xenologis and Technicus to review the technical matter, sometime in the run up to the 42nd millenium.

Until then I'll teach the Anzion Theorem in my classroom as scientific fact!

>> No.20989213

>>20989182
Except Gav wasn't trying to nerf Eldar. The design philosophy changed to 'bring eldar down to par" from the 2nd ed rape-fest era. But Gav (who was responsible for 'Lance weapons', was also the one who decided that T8 3-wounds should be the Eldar dreadnought because it's "equal" to AV-12.

>> No.20989227

>>20989199
And I will continue to teach that all space marines are in fact flamingly gay, the golden-toilet failed centuries ago, and that you accept everything at face-value as a fact.

>> No.20989250

>>20989213
Gav always did these calculations. Units he made from scratch (which 3rd ed was) were either massively overpowered for the time, or uselessly weak.

In the 3rd ed 'ravening hordes', Eldar just used Lascannon like they did in 2nd edition.

In GW language, 'better' and 'more advanced' means worse in every way except in a single niche that rarely turns up.

>> No.20989264

Wasn't there a story where they found an ork vehicle with no engine?

>> No.20989269

>>20989199
It only reached mars in 997.M41. You should allow more time for the theorum to be tested before establishing it into orthodox xeno science.

It's a potential option, I'll give you that. Still, the orthodoxy that their machines function by means of tortured machine spirits is more logical.

At least we can rely on our colleagues on Ryza for research subjects, I understand they've had a slight greenskin problem for the past century.

>> No.20989271

>>20989227 And I will continue to teach that all space marines are in fact flamingly gay

I thought that was so obvious it didn't need to be taught?

They're kind of like the village people in how they're themed, and are the clergy, navy and boy scouts all rolled into one and none of them ever interact with any women, ever.

>> No.20989289

>>20989264
Seriously, /v/, for the love of Emprah don't believe everything posted in your warhammer threads.

>> No.20989295

>>20989213

T8 and AV12 are both immune to bolters, don't see the fuss.

Wraithlords right now are worse than dreads too.

>> No.20989299

>>20989250
Except at the time, there was nothing immune to lance effects, and the BrightLance only underperformed against AV 12 or less. The 'Eldar Plasma Cannon' was also changed to be a 3-shot as opposed to a blast template.

Gav's focus wasn't on bizarre calculations, as opposed to making it possible for Eldar to butcher spess muhreens in mass. And he did just that.

>> No.20989308

>>20989264
Not impossible. We've found pre-dark age of technology pict-captures of vehicles without engines.
Look at the open hood of this ancient non-hover car.

>> No.20989311

wait, when did the necrons invading the webway happen? I need to bone up on my new necron lore, I thought they hadn't raped it TOO badly except for the whole "C'tan were beaten before the big sleep" thing (See, I hated that. MUCH more compelling story if we had it so that the C'tan were only RECENTLY being fought against, and then we could play armies either as liberated Necrons or as C'tan lead drones :P)

>> No.20989363

>>20989311
The Necrons can hack into the webway and use it with Dolmen Gates (taught to them by Kaela Mensha Khaine), though the Webway auto-closes them so they can't use it as long or as well as the Eldar can.

It's their only FTL, but it's enough to outmanoeuvre the imperium (which shows how well Eldar fleets can do it, with better access and limited regular Warp Travel that Necrons don't have).

>> No.20989369

>>20989308
Are you saying that the Admech was to stupid to find the engine in an ork vehicle?

>> No.20989377

>>20989295
>Wraithlords right now are worse than dreads too.
>right now

That right there is why it's not a problem anymore. Keep in mind that during 3rd edition, and even into 3.5 and up to mid 4th, Monsters were notably more survivable than vehicles were. The Penetration Chart on a vehicle had 4+ destroy it, with the lightest effect being 'stunned', while a glancing shot still had a 1 in 6 chance of destroying the vehicle outright. It was not uncommon to see a Lascannon hit a Landraider or Russ' front armor and blow it up on turn 1. Dreadnoughts were even easier to handle.

Now compare that to a 3-wound monster with T-8 that can claim cover (when vehicles could not with exception to KFF), and it's not hard to see why 3 Wraithlords in an Eldar army was considered 'cheese' during that time. Starcannon-spam, and Swooping-Hawk Exarch delivery systems were up there as well.

Marine players bitched (incessantly), and so Wraithlords dropped an attack and had expensive mandatory weapons, starcannons went down to 2 shots, and 'Sustained Assault' was deemed unbalanced, removed, and subsequently given to Blood Angels.

>> No.20989414

>>20989369
The Admech is too stupid to know how to properly repair a vehicle, let alone design something on their own without the aid of an STC.

The Admech IS stupid. They're religious nutjobs in charge of technology who believe that chants, prayers, censers, and purity seals are required to apply the holy-ointment to a engine's 'holy ointment reservoir' in order for it to accept the 'ointment' properly. Nevermind that all they're doing is really just giving the engine a fucking oil-change... and taking 5 days to do it.

>> No.20989446

>>20989414
Not true, the Admech is slowly advancing the tech, its only that finding an STC jumps it forward considerably. And while the lower minions might not, the higher echelons actually have a good grasp of the tech. This explains why there are whole divisions dedicated to researching xeno tech, an impossibility in your scenario. Lastly their is no way anybody would miss an ork engine.

>> No.20989469

>>20989040
Well the whole "tech being leagues ahead" thing is not exactly correct. The human tech from the dark age of technology exceeded EVERYONE'S bar the Necrons' and that is a BIG maybe.

They had time machines, warp capable vessels without navigators and presumably they did NOT have a high population of psykers (which only rose up when the warp went nuts after the fuck-huge war with the Men of Iron).

They had true AI, Men of Iron, and NO BODY else has that period except for a FEW isolated worlds, mostly former human colonies that are rediscovered and utterly purged. (I know in one short story from the book Dark Imperium, they specifically mention a world where a massive AI rules over it and demands the sacrifices of children to it, so the Imperial Navy colonization and exploration fleet exertminatuses it)

The bionic equipment given to space marines? The ones that can keep up with space marine physiology and even surpass it at times? That was what humanity built the Men of Iron out of, and the ones the space marines use are probably of lower quality.

>> No.20989470

>>20989414
How do you explain field repairs on vehicles by techpriests/techmarines?

>> No.20989475

>>20989469


The reason Humanity is ass backwards, despite STC tech being THE best technology in the galaxy that allowed humanity to SWEEP across the Milkyway, rolfstomping -everyone- in their path. Orks weren't a problem beyond a major nuisance because human tech advantage was so massive. Eldar might have had tech on par with humanity at that point, but humanity's numbers kept them in check without even trying.

The problem with human advancement is that they believe all invention to be hubris. Their reasoning? You couldn't POSSIBLY invent something better than ancient humanity had, and even WITH their might, they were brought low by their own technology! How can you POSSIBLY believe you can surpass them through inventing wildly?

Then there's the other hurdle. The Imperium has not a single complete STC design to it's name, period. So that landraider? Probably cobbled together from 5 separate fragmented STC designs. The guns from one, that armor plating from another, the treads meant for an ENTIRELY different vehical, the engine and power unit stripped from an atomic coffee brewer. Slapped together it makes something that is GREAT and POWERFUL, but not what the guys in the past had.


For full clarrification: Anything assigned to the guard was standard issue for colonists in the dark age of technology. All of it. Leman Russ? Probably a bulldozer with a defensive canon strapped onto the top to deal with fuck huge xeno fauna. The Chimera? Exploratory vehical/pdf transport. The reason plasma rifles blow up? Because whatever parts were used to make the plasma containment field generator actually belong to some other entirely different device never meant to deal with keeping a mini-sun core contained.

>> No.20989486

>>20989475
Space marine issued equipment is all dark age of technology MILITARY issue. Imagine that for a moment. Ignore the super soldier program that came later, instead focus on the fact that if you took every imperial guard legion, and you gave them space marine equipment (ramped up to 11 probably) you're getting close to the military might humanity ONCE had. And they also probably had ALL the various goodies that are only with inquisitors and mechanicus now like personal shield generators

Now give every pdf force, even the tribal and medieval ones, something along the lines of Cadian gear. This is the average level of defense for humanity back in the dark age of technology for just their podunk colonies, without even factoring in them sending in their military.

Humanity, probably, also had a psykerless communication system. That or they used relays and couriers like the Tau do what with a calmer warp, more accurate cogitation machines for their ships, more stable geller fields, and highly advanced/decentralized military power all over the place.

Not saying that Humanity is THAT powerful any more, FAR FROM IT. I'm putting into context HOW FAR humanity has fallen. They experienced a galaxy wide collapse of ALL CIVILIZATION that lasted longer than our current recorded history and they ONLY fell to the level they are at now, and still have SO FAR TO GO.

>> No.20989496

>>20989475

It would seem the imperium is incredibly stupid.

>> No.20989497

>>20989475
>The reason plasma rifles blow up? Because whatever parts were used to make the plasma containment field generator actually belong to some other entirely different device never meant to deal with keeping a mini-sun core contained.
Move that sentence a paragraph up...

>> No.20989506

>>20989469 The human tech from the dark age of technology exceeded EVERYONE'S bar the Necrons' and that is a BIG maybe.

No, that's all fanwank.

The Dark/Golden Age was when technology was respected, and they actually did proper research and development. It was not some 'magic bullet', and it was way behind the Necrons and Eldar of the time (who were the undisputed dominant force in the galaxy)

It's not that they had much greater tech then, it was just better distributed and understood.

>> No.20989521

>>20989475 Eldar might have had tech on par with humanity at that point, but humanity's numbers kept them in check without even trying

Fanwank.

Every publication that includes them say that the Eldar ruled the Galaxy then, as far as anyone can. During the Dark Age, humanity wasn't even united as much as the Imperium was.

>> No.20989526

>>20989496
pretty much. But more that they're chief scientists are lead by guys several thousand years old with ONLY their left lobes maintained (Magos usually cut out their right lobe and replace it with logic machinery), and since the Mechanicus isn't permitted to go fully transhuman (upload their minds into a machine) and they don't have the genotech to perfectly preserve a human brain past maybe, 3-5 centuries? All the highest level Magos are utterly insane.

You know all those little geek superstitions like hitting a machine makes it work better if it's not working? Things like that? All of the Machine Cult is following those as holy script because they've been twisted from the minds of 20,000 year old scientists and engineers from the dark age of technology (who are probably long dead now, but they're learning it from the first or second generation of STUDENTS of those guys who got their asses handed to them by the God Emperor)

>> No.20989538

>>20989446
> the Admech is slowly advancing the tech
Within 1,000 years, they have barely advanced their tech at all.

Yes, that admech is making excruciatingly slow progress. But the reason it's so slow is because technology is a religion to them, and they have unnecessary rites and superstitions wrapped up into everything they do. And the major underlining reason they try (and fail) to understand other race's tech, is to better combat it. The admech are not scientists. They're not even mechanics. They're a religious order dedicated to trying to preserve and further technology, and they treat it like it's a religion.

Christ, it's why the Predator Annihilator was being used for centuries before the Admechs themselves finally decreed that "alright, you can use it... it's not heretical at all... After consulting the STC we feel it can be done". Nevermind the fact the Space Wolves came up with the fucking idea in the first place, and nearly every loyalist chapter and traitor legion had already adopted the design already.

>> No.20989539

>>20989521
waait a moment. How were the Eldar the dominant force? I thought the whole "Eye of Terror" opening up that obliterated their empire happened back when humanity was still at the Fist Axe stage?

>> No.20989543

>>20989506

Yeah, pre-fall Eldar coexisted with DAOT humans for thousands of years and nowhere can it be inferred that the humans were any threat to them in that time.

>> No.20989560

>>20989506
I know the emperor got his space marine weaponry designs from partially intact (possibly fully intact) STC designs. And that was COMMON technology during the dark age of technology. Military grade, standard issue.

How were the Eldar and Necrons maintaining dominance against space marine equiped soldiers as common as imperial guards men?

>> No.20989562

>>20989475 Eldar might have had tech on par with humanity at that point, but humanity's numbers kept them in check without even trying

Actually, at that time the Eldar ruled the Galaxy, and traded with the humans (they hadn't started falling so much).

Much of the Imperial weaponry is thanks to Eldar trade, which is why the two have similar areas of tech (las weapons, plasma weapons, fusion/melta, missiles; almost everything that isn't solid shot). Think about it: other races have vastly different types of weapons developed by their own.

If anything, it was the Eldar numbers that kept the humans in check, not the other way around at that time. They were so dominant that no external force were a threat to them then.

>> No.20989568

>>20989539
The Fall happened right before the Emperor launched his Great Crusade.
The prior fall of man was due in part to the Eldar orgying it up. Think of that, one of the main reasons for the end of the Golden Age was horny Eldar.

>> No.20989574

>>20989144
>>All eldar
>>One outcast philosopher.
Really?
That's what you've got?

>> No.20989575

>>20989543
Doesn't mention humans specifically at ALL there. Does ANYBODY have a date on when the Eldar empire went to shit? And they were reduced to a handful of craftworlds and a bunch of maiden worlds of barbarians?

>> No.20989576

>>20989475
>The reason plasma rifles blow up? Because whatever parts were used to make the plasma containment field generator actually belong to some other entirely different device never meant to deal with keeping a mini-sun core contained.
Actually it's because plasma guns are extremely delicate pieces of machinery, and reloading the flasks improperly can have dire consequences. Or in the case of Chaos plasma weapons, it's because the weapon-slaves really don't take care of their gear all that well.

But in both cases the "overheat" mechanic was something introduced as gameplay balance rather than fluff. For actual temperamental gear, the Assault Cannon is the name of the game. Not only is it new technology, but it's also something that's been gradually improved over time (from KILLING the user outright on a jam, to merely the gun becoming unusable, to never jamming)

>> No.20989577

>>20989539
Fall happened around ~M29 or so.

>> No.20989581

>>20989560
>How were the Eldar and Necrons maintaining dominance against space marine equiped soldiers as common as imperial guards men?

They weren't that common, and they weren't Space Marines.

>> No.20989590

>>20989575
Fall happens, Slaanesh is born, Warp Storm surrounding terra is blown away and the Emprah begins the Great Crusade.

>> No.20989598

>>20989575
Around M29-30 or so. The Emperor explicitly started his crusade after the Eye of Terror popped up calming the Warp Storms. It's likely he knew there would be some kind of power vacuum, and could also unite man as there were no more warp storms hindering warp travel.

>> No.20989601

>>20989574
No less ludicrous than one biology major making a broad sweeping theory.

>> No.20989605

>>20988496
This was my post. Went off to do some actual work, then came back to read up on this thread. Not only has anon utterly failed in proving that Ork tech runs on nonsensesolium, he hasn't even attempted to justify the claim that Tyranids can convert matter on the atomic level.

Good work, anon.

>> No.20989611

>>20989562
>>20989568
OOOH Okay, see, I was operating under the assumption the Fall happened well before (like by 1000s of years) man even got into space...

Okay, thing about the eldar rescended. Doesn't change fact that humanity was navigating the warp without the webway enough to keep themselves as a major power, and also had a time machine if I recall... either way.

Anybody ever thought of doing a Dark Age of Technology battlefleet type game? Seems like it'd be pretty awesome... what with all these races never having fallen from glory yet.

>> No.20989619

>>20989575

According to 6e rulebook Age of Strife began in M25 and Dark Age of Technology was in M15-M25, with degeneration near the end - in M22 first psykers appeared and in M23 there was widespread anarchy and daemonic outbreaks.

>> No.20989621

>>20989560
Space Marines were meant to be about on par with the average Eldar pirate, the dregs and outcasts of society. (see pic).

Non space marines in their equipment would fare much worse than proper space marines.

>> No.20989625

>>20989611
>Anybody ever thought of doing a Dark Age of Technology battlefleet type game? Seems like it'd be pretty awesome... what with all these races never having fallen from glory yet.

Don't need to. Firestorm Armada pretty much has it covered, and would ultimately be a better game. I suppose you could just use FA's rules...

>> No.20989628

>>20989581
Wasn't saying they were. Saying they had the same equipment without the ubermensching genetherapy

>> No.20989635

If the necrons only use the webway now how did they get about before they broke into it?

>> No.20989636

>>20989486
Well said.
Forget the HFY-wank, 40k Humanity is in a Dark Age of ignorance and fear, backwards technologically, socially, and philosophically.
These are surely not the High Times of Wonder and Might.

>> No.20989638

>>20989611
Humanity was never a unified major power until the Imperium. Dark Age dudes were all separate factions, and the federation they had was really early history, Tau Empire style and maybe smaller.

>> No.20989640

>>20989621
>eldritch raiders
>average
haha, no. They were the largest corsair group even then

but also;
>rogue trader space marines
>being a big deal
they were just regular (if insane) dudes in power armour

>> No.20989645

>>20989635
Sleeper/stasis ships, going slower than light.

>> No.20989651

>>20989601
True, but that still makes both of them equally _ludicrous_.
Fighting fire with fire isn't a good idea in this case.

>> No.20989652

>>20989635
In slow stasis ships.

>> No.20989673

>>20989651
What the frak does that even mean? He's using your stupid generalization against you.

>> No.20989680

>>20989486
>Space marine issued equipment is all dark age of technology MILITARY issue.
No.

Power Armour as we know it was an entirely new creation by the Emperor himself (used to unite the techno-barbarians), later improved by the priests of Mars once he conquered them.

Even Terminator armour was only loosely based on Dark Age technology, borrowing more from his own creation (Power Armour)

>> No.20989683

>>20989645
>>20989652
Lol. So the necrons won the war against the old ones in statis ships? How were they even a threat? This is retarded.

>> No.20989684

>>20989611
Actually not.
The latest CSM codex talks about the Eldar Fall clearing the warp storms from around Terra and that allowing Emps to get underweigh on an intergalactic level.
This could be a retcon, but as of that the Eldar implosion was beneficial to Humanity.

>> No.20989686

>>20989652
My brain hurts now... why... WHYYYYY D:

either use a slaved shard of the C'tan to warp physical space for FTL, or they do it for you... ffffff forget it... fuck you ward...

>> No.20989688

What's the difference between the webway and the warp?

>> No.20989699

>>20989673
Actually s/he's not.

>> No.20989701

>>20989688
One is immaterium, the other is something between materium and immaterium.

>> No.20989704

>>20989683
no. This is AFTER they threw off the C'tan. Before they did, the C'tan, being gods of the materium and able to make physics their bitch to do such things as EAT STARS would warp space for their fleets to go about kicking ass and taking names

>> No.20989705

>>20989688
One's made of rape the other helps you rape.

>> No.20989706

>>20989688
It's the difference between the Ocean and an Undersea Tunnel.

>> No.20989709

>>20989683
Necrons got into the webway during the War with the Old Ones.

>> No.20989714

>>20989688
the warp is a field

stable travel routes are the paths across it

the webway is a fucking awesome path that only you and your buddies know about

>> No.20989718

>>20989688
Boundary realm between the warp and realspace.

>> No.20989727

>>20989683

>In the closing years of the War in Heaven, the tides began to shift when the Necrons finally gained access to the Webway.

The codex suggests the breach of the Webway was the turning point, so true asskicking began only with the discovery of Dolmen Gates.

>> No.20989728

>>20989704
But the necron control the C'tan now? This is making my head hurt.

>> No.20989729

>>20989686
>D:
>trip faggotry
>Ward hate

Blocked

>> No.20989730

>>20989699
>Anon 1 cites questionable theory by lone techpriest as fact-
>Anon 2 counters by saying one crackpot Eldar philosophy stands for all Eldar philosophy
>HURR HURR FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE

Yeah, sure. Sure.

>> No.20989736

>>20989728
Yes. C'tan got broken down into little C'tan and are now imprisoned and controlled by the Necrons.

>> No.20989742

>>20989688
Think of it this way. The Warp is the ocean. Real Space is the land, and the area just above the ocean. The Webway is the sky.

A handful of things from the Warp can enter real space of their own choice, or when the conditions are right. But most things cannot leave, and 99% of the time, and cannot leave without help from real space. Likewise, under most circumstances, things from Real Space cannot enter the Webway. Things from the Webway and the Warp are anathema to eachother.

Psyker powers are dulled in the Webway, which is why the Dark Eldar can survive the drain of Slaanesh's thirst there. It's also (partly) why their psychic powers are lessened.

>> No.20989750

>>20989688
Okay.

There are 5 major methods of FTL travel at the moment. Imagine that the Warp is a giant pool of water. The Materium is everything above it, the concrete and tiles on the side, the air above it.

Anyway. You want to get from star A (right side of the pool) to Star B (left side) You could go around the pool (sublight travel), but there are faster ways.

Method 1: Warp Engines-
You're in a submarine, swimming through the warp itself

Method 2: Webway-
You have built a tunnel that dips under the surface of the pool so you don't get wet.

Method 3: Tau Gravity Wing-
You're on a boogie board. You push it under the water, submerging it, but the boogie board wants to rise up again, when it does so, it's a little further along than before.

Method 4: C'tan Space Magic-
You jump across the pool. No one knows how you do this.

Method 5: Tyranid Gravity Bug Ship-
You build a bridge across the pool. This takes only a little less time than walking around the pool.

>> No.20989751

>>20989066
>>20989107
>>20989113
>>20989141

Sometimes I wonder why I still bother playing as eldar

>> No.20989756

>>20989651

>the point
I think you missed it.

>> No.20989768

>>20989699
Actually, I was.

>> No.20989773

>>20989736
So if the C'tan can make ftl travel work, and the necrons control the C'tan, why cant the necrons travel ftl? sure the webways is convenient but.. no.

>> No.20989782

>>20989773
This is WARD logic. Plot Holes are the name of the game. Also rage.

>> No.20989783

>>20989751
It's ok. It is inevitable for anyone who plays an army other than space marines to wonder why they still bother playing. I did. Many times.

>> No.20989793

>>20989773
The C'tan are more as prisoners of the Necrons than servants.

The Necrons don't break them out of their prsons unless there is an emergency. Because If a C'tan gets free from its bonds by mistake, then everyone is fucked.

>> No.20989795

>>20989773
>So if the C'tan can make ftl travel work

Who says?
Necrons had to use the webway or their stasis ships, it didn't say anything about the C'tan making them got FTL.

>> No.20989804

>>20989783

Imperial Guard here, started with 5e and not regretted it.

>> No.20989813

>>20989793

Yet if it its necrodermis is destroyed, a C'tan shard's essence merely disappears in the stellar winds.

>> No.20989819

>>20989804
>Hipster reddit faggot detected

>> No.20989822

>>20989795
It was mentioned earlier it this thread. Im not sure to be honest, I dont have the necron codex but obviously I need to give it a read.

I dont know but to me if the necrons fought the first part of the war in heaven in statis ships now well fuck me thats just a joke.

>> No.20989831

>>20989819

>implying you are not jelly because you lack Vendettas

>> No.20989839

>>20989819
For fuck's sake could you knock that shit off already and get a fucking job?

>> No.20989841

>>20989822
They got their asses kicked at first. When they went full robot and Star Gods that evened it out. When they breached the Webway they began to win.

>> No.20989874

>>20989839
Well, it's good to see that spaghetti continues to be 4chan's favorite meal.

>> No.20989875

>>20989804
Yeah, how do you like your bizarre mashed-up Cadiatachan codex? I suppose the idea of having a spoon-fed army sounds more appealing to you then custom designing your own IG regiment.

>> No.20989898

>>20989875

Never read the older codices, but based on old guard players complaining about being low tier for over a decade before 5e book I think I'm missing nothing.

>> No.20989909

>>20989874
http://archive.foolz.us/tg/search/text/reddit/
Anon is right. Get a life.

>> No.20989934

>>20989909
Not sure what you want me to see here. Bunch of posts from people, all of which contain the word reddit. So either I have been writing a whole bunch of posts or... hold your horses!

What if.. just what if... people actually were sick and tired of all these reddit bullshit posters? I know it sounds far-fetched, but it might just be true! Some people on 4chan might actually have a brain!

>> No.20989959

>>20986601
Can it be that they move so slow as to be undetectable?

>> No.20990078

>>20989934
TBH the only thing that annoys me about Reddit is their fetish for the order of operations and claiming it's an international standard that should be upheld through violence. Everything else is meg.

I subscribe to the international standard of putting shit in the right fucking order

>> No.20990106

My way to see it is that the necron have FTL travel. But the galaxy is HUGE. They could move 1000 times faster than light, and they would still a hundred years to travel from an end of the galaxy to the other. The webway travel is simply faster than that.

>> No.20990429

>>20989768
Well, didn't really work as I wasn't addressing anything about the observations of a single Magos.
I agree that said Magos' claims are dubious, but claiming that one Eldar weirdo's musings = all of them is just as stupid.
Fire v. Fire = fail.

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