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[ERROR] No.20985729 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

More autosaging Chaos threads!

New codex seems fun especially with all the new Chaos Artefacts and Khorne Bezerkers being cheap.

>> No.20985735

Forgot link
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?0udhgebdab27eau

>> No.20985790

>>20985729
New codex seems fun especially with all the new boons and the MURDER SWORD being dead killy.

>> No.20985866

Short tips:

-Obliterators with mark of nurgle will require str10 to insta-kill.
-Thousand Sons work best inside 12".
-Berzerkers make fights unfair against high initiative specialists (like banshees) when you bring chainaxes along.
-Terminators with twin claws+1Chainfist with veterans skill love marks and Icons of Slaanesh.
-Chaos cultists are worth giving guns.
-CSM in units of 20 with slaanesh marks+icons are crazy tough for their points ratio!
-Heldrakes can vector strike 1 target and shoot another, possibly removing two vehicles.
-Adding any ranged weapons to a rhino is worth it points-wise.
-Dreadnoughts are in again.
-All of the cults are worth it now.
-All the vehicles are worthwhile but comparing them on whats best is questionable.

>> No.20985872

>>20985866
Do you have a synopsis on noise marines?

>> No.20985889

- second wave with some plastic havoc sprue or new obliterators will never happen

well fuck you GW, I'll not buy your 1 lascannon, 1 autocannon and 1 missile launcher kit for 35 €. Thats 20 more than the normal 5 man sprue and you can get 2 ML from forgeworld for 14 (+flamer+melta)

>> No.20985894

So, five years after getting into the hobby without ever playing a game since, I've finally settled on a fluffy Tzeentchian army. I've already got vanilla marines assembled and partially painted up, so I'll undoubtedly be fielding them despite Thousand Sons being a better choice for their cost.

Is the Icon of Flame worth taking on vanilla CSM? Having a lot of Soul Blaze on hand sounds good to me, although I suppose that depends on who I'm fighting.

>> No.20985895

Can you replace grenades for new wargear because they are weapons? Sounds fishy, but maybe I'm just foolish

>> No.20985905

>>20985866

Wouldn't claw termies benefit more from MoK?

S5 claws are nothing to sneer at.

>> No.20985916

>>20985856
I just don't see how that counters my theory. I could fully understand that it might be their intent for it to work that way, but it actually seems to rely on more interpretation than my simple argument of "is weapon, can replace". There is nothing that says that the weapon has to be from the standard profile to be replaced as there is nothing saying you couldn't in theory use infinite replacement. As in, replace bolt pistol with plasma pistol, then replace plasma pistol with combi-bolter, then with X, then with Y, then with X again; hell, at what point can't you replace a weapon with itself infinitely?
All it says is "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following" Nothing about only one weapon, if it has to be a standard profile weapon, or if it only applies on certain days of the week.

I have a feeling I'm going to be a bit disappointed when the errata comes rolling in

>> No.20985919

So how good do you think cultist actually are in this codex? Since with autoguns they cost the exact same amount as a guardsmen but are worst as they only have a 6+ save, do not have frag grenades and cannot take some special weapons and heavy weapons, they really seem very outclassed by most cheap infantry in the game.

>> No.20985922

>>20985872
Yes I do.

1. Noise Marines are worthy units of 10 mostly because you can't really get them all in range AND keep them out of melee while being sonic-y.
2. Champion with a bolter is fine, you still end up being LOTS cheaper with a blaster unit from last codex if you don't take his screamface upgrade(which puts the unit in danger IMO) Keep him in front to be a casualty.
2a. Champion with the facescream upgrade is a must if you don't take sonic weapons.
3. Larger units indicate the must-have use of the icon. Kept at the rear of course.
4. Blastmaster is still too spendy and awkward with the units role. Save those points for another dedicated unit.
5. If you want to bust tanks, use your grenades to run close instead of shooting, I5 helps kraks beat off the one fist of a dreadnought and you can still win without a power fist! This avoids the shitty challenge my power fist guy and now weak to dreadnoughts crap.
6. Having a havoc launcher rhino is perfect with a ranged unit. Tank shock blades upgrade for a melee unit. Either way take a rhino with them to be their mobile wall/transport to melee.
7. Take 20 for an icon if you footslog them for melee.
8. The melee version vs marines with veterans, CCW replacing bolter and doom siren+claw champ getting the charge is close to what berzerkers do. The way this works is that you remove the enemies return attacks more then zerkers can before they lose casualties, so by round 3-4 it's near the same result.

>> No.20985925

>>20985894
afaik soul blaze can not stack, so why would you waste all these points for a 50% chance of 1-3 bolter hits.

>> No.20985933

>>20985905
Claws already get a reroll to wound. Being able to hit first and make that 2+ armor save even worse with a 5+ FNP save makes them basic troop munchers. They already strike ahead of fists, which are one of the main issues they have and you challenge to do that.

>> No.20985937

>>20985922
1*. I mean you can't really use larger units of sonics than 10 models and use them properly.

>> No.20985941

>>20985925
Yeah, that was what made me have second thoughts about it. I want everything to be marked, but it doesn't seem worth taking the MoT on CSM just for a 6++ save.

>> No.20985950

>>20985922

Can I ask you for a plague marine rundown, please?

>> No.20985969

Do not forget, this may be the first codex in forever that Chaos Spawn MIGHT be useful. That in itself is a huge accomplishment.

>> No.20985970

>>20985925
They really just need to make Soul Blaze a stacking counter that is 50% chance for d3+(1 per counter beyond the first)
It might not really matter for any other army, but CSM has a ton of Soul Blaze available, but since it doesn't stack you have to choose to either spread your focus to let it take maximum effect, or it's a slight damage enhancer on things you are focusing down anyway. I suppose if anything it allows you to thin a unit down to a couple models and then have SB wipe them out. Still doesn't seem worth it when you could just use the points to get better ways of killing things with certainty.

>> No.20985997

>>20985970

Soul blaze is decent on vehicles because it's only 5 points and affects all of its weapons. Why they decided to make it 15 points for infantry is the mystery of the week.

>> No.20986023

>>20985941
Trying to look into the merits of tzeentch basic marines... They get to summon tzeentch daemons nearby, who help firepower and don't have the drawback of needing to charge into melee to do their damage.

6+ save quickly becomes 4+ cover with daemons in front. Take the 2 point mark 6 times (1/6 chance of working) it will pay for itself at 12 points total. So it's not a total waste, just not capable of being relied/gambled upon.

The icon causes D3 wounds on 4+ EVERY TURN, so a 50/50 chance of setting them ablaze and resetting it. If you get past the first roll the second try means you had 2D3 extra wounds. So if that acts as an extra marine's worth in bolter fire every turn, it has paid for itself too.

tl;dr, minor benefits for a anti infantry unit that can have divine help that makes it harsher.

>> No.20986027

>>20985950
Oh sure, give me a bit. I have rules jumbling everywhere.
>just did the tzeentch CSM thing

>> No.20986056

>>20986023
Huh, I guess that sounds pretty good. Obviously it's not the optimal setup, but my gaming group was never all Draigowing and Lash Princes, so to speak.

>> No.20986063

>>20985997
Warpflame Gargoyles + Havoc Launchers on my backline Rhinos, ho!

>> No.20986073

>>20985997

It's NEW RULE syndrome, meaning the writers have no real idea how to best handle or balance it with anything because rather than look hard at its mechanical effectiveness they simply think "HEy this thingee can make people be on FIRE" and think the coolness factor alone warrants an exorbitant cost.

New shit is always handled poorly in codexes. Same with equipment. This dex is another happy example of 'new equipment syndrome' where any new flash is only available to star new models and NOTHING ELSE even where it would seem feasible... like being able to upgrade a Defiler to have a Hades autocannon (or a predator). Or making scourges available as unwieldy powerfist alternatives for characters.

Blood Angels is my favourite example of this, where Sanguinary guard got a cool truckload of new flash... which NOBODY else has access to. Not even Captains. If a BA captain could take Sanguinary guard equipment he might actually be somewhat useful. Wolf Lords by comparison can take Frost blades and axes just like their elite troops.... why? Because Frost weapons have been around forever.

>> No.20986117

Plague Marines.

1. Come fully equipped, Defensive, Assault, Krak grenades for near every occasion. Bolter, poisoned4+ knives, pistol, bolter... (Why can't I carry all this equipment~)
2. Initiative 3 is a drag but the 5+ toughness and 5+FNP makes up for it. +1 point this edition is rather fair, and matters little because you rarely go above 50 in 2k anyway. (loss of 50 total points, you can handle that)
3. Icon causes fear. Against nonmarines who normally would either match/be below your initiative or have a super initiative are often numerous. If they hit you on 4's being specialists, it's a benefit similar to having (tada!) a 4+FNP Save! Except it works against power weapons that would fuck with that. Eldar players would dislike it.
4. If you're worried about power weapons, obvious daemons come into play here. Except wait, you can drag out monsterous critters that have area effects and they themselves have grenade-equivilents. Making them reliable for charging into terrain! (tough marines with tougher monstrous things)
5. Obvious epidemus list, sure. Imagine plague marines leaving behind a cheap daemon unit to take objectives and in cover. Good way to splurge on plague marines and not feel dicey either way.
6. Power fist for the champ is a no brainer. Toughness 5 champ that keeps the fist alive is a sign of intelligence, during challenges. Emperor help them if they don't have AP3 or better...
7. Don't get allured by plasma guns. 12" is where plague marines shine, lack of numbers means you need to get into melee fast. Shoot the shit out of them until you get there. Power weapon heavy armies will still have issues with your toughness and piling your low but tough numbers into one area at a time. Overwhelming him.
8. Always worth taking veterans on one unit or two, don't splurge it though. They're already spendy.
9. Rhino squad and even raider worthy. Just add the HQ with them if they're in a raider, they make great bodyguards.

>> No.20986124

>>20986073
>scourge
>new
Fuck off 5th ed kid.

And giving Hades Autocannon to the defiler would have prompted the "HURRR RULES BUT NO MODEL" reaction.

Of course, making a new model for the defiler would have prompted the "HURRR NEW MODEL FOR THIS SHIT, NOT FOR [X]" one.

Soul Blaze is a bad rule, that's all. It's only effect is bypassing that Pyromancy cover power that no one cast because fuck Pyromancy.

>> No.20986146

>>20986124
For 5 points on vehicles Soul Blaze is alright, no need to spam it everywhere.

>> No.20986161

>>20986117
FNP works against power weapons though.

>> No.20986168

>>20986124
>defiler
You can have a rhino sit in front a defiler, firing away with a havoc launcher. Probably belonging to a havoc squad meant to shoot down planes.

That rhino gives the defiler hull down. Who already has a long range cannon that out ranges all 48" anti tank weapons. That also has a 5+ daemon save. A perfect guardian for rear firepower groups. A single defiler hanging back with some havocs, maybe a tank, whatever you prefer. While plinking away with a battle cannon, ignoring stuns and shaken results behind cover/being its 'own' hull down with a 5+ demon save. Fucker will not die amiright?

It costs 45 points more. But its a freaking battle cannon dreadnought that can switch roles. Twin-linked weapons like reapers can make nice anti aircraft for rerolling to get 6's to hit. Flamers for the deep strikers/outflankers and then charge their asses. A great jack of all trades that benefits its original form two editions later.

>> No.20986176

>>20986161
Aw crap, I forgot. Even better.

>> No.20986203

>>20986117
TLDR: Plague Marines still the best troops in the codex.

>> No.20986205

>>20986023

>They get to summon tzeentch daemons nearby

Wait, what? I didn't see anything in the new codex about summoned demons... Is that something from the Demon codex itself?

>> No.20986250

>>20986205
Yes, as in Daemon allies.

Tzeentch are the "safest" allies as far as Daemons go, since all of them are either shooty or super fast, so you can Deep Strike them relatively safely. They also have good anti-vehicle in the form of Screamers, which Tzeentch CSM armies tend to be short on.

>> No.20986263

>>20986124

To be fair its been what, 20 years since the power scourge had rules? I know it wasn't in 3.5 but my memory fails as to if it was in the original 3rd ed list (or even the 3rd ed rulebook list).


In other news: i'm loling so much at this - the various 40k foruksm are slowly being fileld with hate for the new codex because it isn't 3.5 revised - proving my theory that chaos players don't want a chaos codex, they want a codex that is better than everyone else. Only eldar players are such whiny fucks who demand everything and refuse to accept any downsides/weaknesses.

>> No.20986292

>>20986263
I honestly wanted ward to write it cause then I'd be spoiled by a book full of shiny new exciting shit but i'm liking this anyway.

>> No.20986295

>>20986263
I guess that Chaos players feel like they had so much crap they deserve an über codex, like IG and GK.

Except IG and GK actually had years of crap, where Chaos just had a bad book.

>> No.20986297

I posted this in the last thread just after it started autosaging.

Khorne army list

Lord - MoK, Juggernaught, blind axe, sigil of corruption
170

16 Khorne Berzerkers - VotLW, Banner, Power Weapon
355
16 Khorne Berzerkers - VotLW, Banner, Power Weapon
355
30 Cultists - 3 heavy stubbers
145

Maulerfiend - 125
Maulerfiend - 125
Forgefiend - 175

Total 1450

Not sure what I should blow the last 50 on, maybe some chainaxes, or marks for the cultists?

>> No.20986313

>>20986297
I would find 100 points somewhere and give your lord a 5 spawn retinue. But that may not mesh with your idea for an army.

>> No.20986325

>>20986263
I think most Chaos players just wanted Ward to write the book, because lets be honest you would be hard pressed to find a Necron or GK player complaining about their crunch.

I'm happy with it though.

I think most of the negative reaction is knee-jerk because it LOOKS like the Gavdex, but once you get under the hood you realize that none of the units are truly pants-on-head retarded like last time, and it can actually put out more than one tourney list.

>> No.20986355

>>20986325
Aye, though I have a little beef with that.

Sure, things like Bikers, daemon princes, spawn, possessed are decent now (in some cases: insane) but only if you take Nurgle. I'm generally sick of Nurgle always getting the best stat-increase, that fucking toughness. It's inherently imbalanced because toughness is such an important stat, far more important than almost any other single stat.

With the other 3 gods, you need to actually think about whom to mark and which god do you want to mark them with. With Nurgle it's a simple case of "NURGLE TO EVERYTHING AND IT'S ALL GOOD" as it literally backs everything up.

I'm guess i'm just a butthurt Tzeentchian.

>> No.20986360

>>20986325
Oh, I'm happy with it too. It actually feels like the 3.5, sans stupidly OP legion rules.

So much that I'm gonna play it once my 'crons are finished.

>> No.20986364

>>20986263
Two things that jumped out at me after looking at the new codex:

1. There is competition for every FoC slot. Seriously, every slot has at least two units that are good. Thats a big goddamn deal compared the the previous version.

2. All the pants-on-head-FUCKMYLIFE-retarded shit is gone. Fratricidal Dreadnoughts giving first blood to the enemy? GONE. Uncontrollable Spawn? GONE. Daemon Weapons not only hurting you, but making you spend an entire turn not attacking? GONE.

I honestly can't see why people hate it so much. Sure it isn't Necrons/GK, but does 40k really need another book like that? I submit that it does not.

>> No.20986380

>>20986355

Tzeentch is good on termies/possessed/warp talons due to giving them 4++.

>> No.20986397

>>20986355
I can understand you. I'm trying to put together an army that isn't Nurgle or Slaanesh (because I simply hate those colors and mutations, so I'm not gonna paint it). And clearly, Khorne and Tzeentch feel low powered, especially Tzeentch, who pays through the nose for nothing because saturation is king.

>> No.20986411

>>20986364

>no pants on head retarded stuff

Mutilators exist now, but luckily they're in a slot so crowded with stellar choices that they can be happily forgotten about.

>> No.20986417

All the walkers have Power Fists (and thus attack at I 1) now?

The Power Scourge (S 8) is available to Defilers (S 16 with PF) and Helbrute (S 12 with PF). The Helbrute can get two of them, but what happens if you have 1 Power Scourge and 1-3 Power Fists?

I assume a Defiler with 1 Scourge and 3 Fists has to pick which one to attack with: Either 3 attacks at S 8 or 5 at S 16. Is that correct?

>> No.20986421

>>20986325

Yes. The havocs in this book are really good, probably better than BA devastators even.

Predators of the autolas and tri-las variety are also better than those of any loyalist book.

Bikers are much cheaper and better than those of any marine. Raptors are cheaper than any assault marine, and can take two special weapons at any squad size. 10 basic khorne marines with vet upgrade and two meltaguns in a rhino cost as much as 10 BA assault marines in a rhino and are far more killy with hatred (spess), rage and counterattack.

I guess people are bitching because chosen traded infiltrate (which you're guaranteed to still get with Huron or Ahriman) for +1A or Nurgle termies can't get FNP.

>> No.20986437

Now, if I'm reading the key's rules correctly, does this mean all units that deep strike don't scatter, regardless of where you choose to deep strike?? Or just so long as they deep strike within 12" of the key?

>> No.20986443

Has anyone else noticed that the Axe of Blind Fury is redundant? It gives you Rage, but you have to have a Mark of Khorne to take it, so you already have Rage.

>> No.20986444

>>20986380
That just proves my point though. Tzeentch is useful but only for certain things and you need to focus on your tactic to use them to their best ability, same as Slaanesh and Khorne. Nurgle just generally makes everything better.

That's why I'm so annoyed at it. Not everyone benefits from the 3 god marks but EVERYONE benefits from Nurgle, from the lowliest Spawn to the strongest Prince. It's the reason Plague Marines are always so good, over-and-above the rest.

>> No.20986448

>>20986417
Powerfists aren't unwieldly on walkers AFAIK.
S can never be above 10 as well.
It would be 3 at S8 (with the WS reduction to everyone around him) or 5 at S10

>> No.20986459

>>20986263
I'm almost certain that this codex would wipe the floor with the 3.5dex in a contest of pure power. The reason why anyone who isn't so blinded by their devotion to the inferior cheese from 3.5 is saying anything against the new book in comparison can be directly viewed in the form of the Chaos Artefacts, Special Issue Wargear and Rewards lists.
There are 7 Artefacts, of which only 2 are daemon weapons. Those 2 represent Undivided and Khorne, with Khorne and Tzeentch getting a non-devoted nod from the Burning Brand. Slaanesh and Nurgle have no daemon weapons. In fact, Slaanesh gets the Steed as it's only upgrade. Nurgle goes one up on that with Blight Grenades and Palanquin. While some might argue that Gift of Mutation covers the plethora of spiky bits, those people are massive faggots. This wargear list looks like it was thrown together in a week.
Is this codex a step in the right direction? Hell yes. Is it a step of enough magnitude that it stops me from thinking that a job at GW codex creation must be about spending 90% of your time doing JACK SHIT? Not really.
The silent majority of chaos players, the true believers, were given the single greatest army book ever written, filled with enough variety to keep us satisfied until the end times. Then we got the worst codex ever penned, with almost as little to show as the ORIGINAL necron army list. A little of the old light shines through, but we shake our heads and wonder how it can take so long to do so little.

>> No.20986463

>>20986444

It's also the reason why it's the most expensive mark, plus it has the worst icon.

Tzeentch is still a loser on most fronts though, unless you want a 3++ HQ unit.

>> No.20986464

>>20986444

And that's why FNP icon is not Nurgle.

You'd never see anything else because T is the bestest stat ever.

>> No.20986473

Oh gee I sure cant wait to make a new chaos list, lets see what should I pick for my Fast Attack slots-
>Bikes
>Rapetors
>Warp Talons
>Spawn
>Dreadclaw
>Storm Eagle
>Blight Drone
>Heldrake

OH GOD WHAT DO I PICK WHAT DO I PICK

>> No.20986478

>>20986443
Not on the Demon Prince. Though why you would pay to lose that awesome WS9 is out of my understanding.

>> No.20986482

>>20986448
My mistake then. I didn't know that Unwieldy doesn't apply to MCs and walkers. Or about the S 10 as maximum. Thanks.

>> No.20986523

>>20986463
Expensive? 26 points for a T6 biker? Get the fuck out. Mark of Nurgle should be either changed to not increase toughness or it should be like 3x the points of the rest. If MoK is 5, MoS is 7 and MoT is 8, MoN should be fucking 20 or something.

It's just too good. If Nurgle players want to field their inordinately-tough units, they shouldn't be allowed to have enough points to drown you in troops as well.

>> No.20986526

>>20986411
Mutilators have their place, and its in a Land Raider as a bodyguard for a Lord/Typhus/Abbadon. Any Mark will be good on them, their just as killy (if not more so, due to always having the right weapon) in CC than a points-equal Terminator squad, and they don't begin to lose effectiveness until they take their second wound.

Plus, not being able to use the same weapons twice in a row isn't a big deal for them because they have two weapons suited to every job except killing heavy vehicles.

>> No.20986529

>>20986478


WS8 is still above the overwhelming majority of models in the game - the only notable WS8 models are (off the top of my head)-

Vect
succubi
crowe and his sword of i'm-a-twerp
Hive tyrants
Archons with +1WD on combat drugs

Of that lot the DP wil lsmash the succubus, maybe take the archon, lose to vect, lsoe to a hive tyrant and he'll crush crowe and then stands a 50/50 chance of dying to his special ability.

WS9+ is even rarer, so all in all it is a good trade off.

>> No.20986530

>>20986478
It's just WS8 for S8 and D6 extra attacks. It's pretty awesome on the Daemon Prince.
D6 extra attacks is enough for a Daemon Prince to wipe out a squad of 5 terminators (Hell, maybe even Paladins) without them even blinking due to the Daemon Prince's initiative.

>>20986482
No problem bro.

>> No.20986563

>>20986523

It is 3x points of the rest for bikers, all others are 2-3 points model, MoN is 6 points.

>> No.20986569

>>20986530
>>20986529
WS9 means 90% of the units hit you on 5+ in melee. That's extremely powerful, especially when it means you take less Krak grenades up your sweet daemon ass.

Also, the Black Mace is a much better weapon for a Daemon Prince. Smash means it become AP2 and its abilty allows the prince to get out of Challenge-lock and tarpits.

>> No.20986576

>>20986563
Still not expensive enough then. MoN should be like 20 points baseline for any single model.

>> No.20986590

>>20986530
Am I wrong in thinking that a Khornate Prince with Blind Axe is WS8 S9 I8 A7+d6 on the charge?

Also it seems Princes can take Gift of Mutation, though they do not have Champion of Chaos.

>> No.20986591

>>20986529
WS8 with -1WS for the enemy (several ways) makes them have to hit you on 5+ if they were WS 4.

>> No.20986596

>>20986576

>> No.20986612

So any ideas about loadouts for Daemon Princes? Thinking about the possibilities in the Biomancy tree. Imagine a DP with Iron arm. Thats a possible T8 S9 monster right there. Hell the Biomancy tree in general seems awesome. Definetly gonna get me a Mastery 2-3 Slaanesh sorc, seem like they can put out some great support.

>> No.20986627

>>20986612
Nurgle or Tzeentch are the only ways to roll, since they both give you survivability increases. The Prince is just too damn expensive now, and you'll need every bit of help you can get to avoid being blown to bits by the inevitable hail of Missiles/Autocannons/Lascannons that will fly his way.

>> No.20986637

>>20986612
Problem is, a psyker DP is hella expensive. 230 points for a Level 3 Slaanesh DP, and it isn't even equiped yet.

>> No.20986688

To the note on Tzeentch players.

1.You can rest easy knowing that you have AP3 covered with the sons. If you want massing firepower, take some horror allies.
2. AP2 is troublesome but you can pack many walkers of doom that brings this AP2 with greater daemon style inv saves. These things can also shoot.
3. Heldrake is not unfluffy to an extent, it is a good fluffy anti air choice.
4. 5th Edition+update has given not only new life against the old drawbacks, your sorcerer is more awesome and costs a bit less for your sons unit.
5. Your rhino can defend them properly from melee to a reasonable degree. Balances dakka too if you don't want horrors.
6. Tzeentchi armies have a good contrast of high AP non-toughness models to high dakka, so your weakness to 2+ saves and hordes isn't as blaring as last edition/codex.
7. All those other cults you're jealous of gets no armor save. Just inv/cover. Reducing something that can turn your 50/50 chance kill with a bolter shot down to a measly 0.11 becomes much higher. (0.074 if it were a plague marine), now remains a armorless target. Its like shooting spawns back home!
8. Cheer up. Your base capabilities with the unit are awesome. Anti tank units won't go picking them off easily/ignores them entirely. Melee units flock their way because of that weakness, making it easy to decide what else to take and what to do. You have an iron strength of AP3 spam that just needs a bit of dakka and a bit of AP2 to balance it out. Often you have to reverse that to dakka for the troop, then stress dakka/ap2 everywhere else.

>> No.20986695

>>20986612
The main problem i see with Psyker DPs is that they MUST have at least one power from their god's discipline, but the only real point of making them a psyker is to fish for Iron Arm.

>> No.20986700

>>20986526

>paying Paladin prices for a unit that can't even shoot and is slow and purposeless despite being a solely CC oriented unit.

Just take fucking terminators, you get a raider as a dedicated transport instead.

>> No.20986702

>>20986569

Psst, 90% of units that require a 5+ to hit a DP are going to lose to it with very few exceptions.

Hence why it really isn't much of a trade off in real terms. The only real unit that really makes a difference I can think of is thunderhammer terminators due to their durability, otherwise the increased damage output is much more useful.

(Actually the real killer part of a DP's statline is I8 as that makes him able to outrun a fair number of DE/nid/GK HQ's who are mean enough to pick a fight with a DP and win).

>> No.20986719

>>20986695
>implying that there are new Chaos powers you wouldn't want.

If you're that worried, go Tzeentch DP with more than one ML. Worst case, you get breath of chaos.

>> No.20986728

Tzeentch disc lord with Screamers is lightning fast and dead killy.

That's probably going to gain in popularity.

>> No.20986742

>>20986700
You get 2 extra wounds for the same price as the terminators, and they have much higher CC capacity. If you intend to run something in a Land Raider anyway, Mutilators are the superior option unless your HS slots are full.

>> No.20986753

When a default wargear or option just says "power weapon" or "force weapon", do I get to pick what kind?

>> No.20986770

>>20986753
yes

>> No.20986781

>>20986742

Termies start off being able to take all power axes or mauls which is already good, and can shoot and actually run if their transport happens to be blown up. If your mutilators get stranded in the open then they're fucking useless because they'll never make it anywhere.

And if you're sinking points into them Terminators just get better and better because you can add icons.

>> No.20986805

>you cant have combi weapons and optional ccw on termies

>> No.20986809

>>20986742

And SNP does not matter on mutilators, it does not slow walking or charge speed, and running only prevents you from charging OR shooting, so terminators in a situation where they run would be useless as well.

Mutilators do not have overwatch to lose and Terminators cannot sweeping advance either. SNP is just a slightly nerfed version of Terminator movement in 6e.

>> No.20986813

So, has anyone realized this yet?

You can make a Tzeentch Sorcerer with ML3 and a 2/3++ Save for 175 points.

You can make a similar Lord for 130 Points, and then you get to pick weapons. Dual Claws, Black mace, Murder Sword, ect.

>> No.20986829

>>20986813

Yes we all know that.

No, we don't understand why Kelly decided to skimp out on giving Ahriman that.

Maybe because Chaos characters are meant to be more 'for flavour' then anything else.

>> No.20986832

Quick question: when something tells you take a test like a toughness or strength or wounds test, you roll 2d6 and pass it if it's equal or below right?

>> No.20986834

>>20986770
It looks to me like the Power Scourge is the obvious choice for anyone that has access to the Melee Weapons list then.

Power Axe? Completely outclassed until S 8. Unwieldy, though.
Power Fist? Completely outclassed until S 5. Unwieldy, though.
Power Lance? Completely outclassed until S 8.
Power Maul? Concussive has its perks.
Power Sword? Completely outclassed until S 9.

>> No.20986840

Who is the best at using the MURDER Sword?

>> No.20986844

>>20986834
>power scourge

I cant wait for the faq to shut all of you idiots up

POWER SCOURGE IS WALKER ONLY

>> No.20986845

>>20986834

Power scourges aren't ordinary power weapons.

They're a different thing entirely and the only units that can take them are Hellbrutes and Defilers.

If you look you'll notice that they're not even in the armoury, they only appear in the unit upgrade options for those particular units.

>> No.20986846

>>20986829

Ahriman doesn't get it because he's got +1BS +1W +1A over a normal sorcerer, can shoot three witchfire powers, has mastery level 4 and is guaranteed a good warlord trait.

He'd be 270 points instead of 230 if he was in termie armour and had sigil on top of the above.

>> No.20986848

>>20986832
It's d6 for everything, except Ld. 1 being success, 6 being failure and anything inbetween being success if it's equal to or lower.

Page 7 of CRB.

>> No.20986850

>>20986834
if you claim you can use a power scourge as a power weapon, I will stuff those models up your nose

>> No.20986855

>>20986313

Sounds like a good idea actually, lets the lord keep up with the maulers.

>> No.20986857

>>20986809
>Not being able to run with a CC-only unit is almost nothing.

>> No.20986861

>>20986845
What do you mean with "they're not even in the armoury"?

>> No.20986862

>>20986834

Generic power weapons are the ones specified in the 6th edition rulebook.

Power Scourges are not in the core rulebook. Hence you can't use them as generic power weapons.

Dingus.

>> No.20986872

>>20986861

They aren't, go to page 91, which details the options available to units when they 'have access to the armoury'.

Notice the distinct lack of Power Scourges on the page.

>> No.20986876

yea there needs to be a lot of FAQs, and fast

PLAGUE ZOMBIES ARE STUCK AT 10 MEN

>> No.20986877

>>20986444


My guess is that Phil Kelly will write an Erreta a few days after the codex is out and will change on the Blind Axe;s Rage to Furious charge?

>> No.20986879

>>20986857

Yes. Running is pretty much meaningless because it's just d6 and prevents charging even if you have fleet.

Especially on unit like terminators or that need to be deep struck in or get a land raider. They're considered to be dealt with if they need to resort to running.

>> No.20986880

What do you guys think of my 1500 point Death Guard list? I won't be up against flyers so don't worry about that.

Chaos Lord, Mark of Nurgle, Terminator armour, combi-weapon, lightning claw 132
Sorceror, Mark of Nurgle, Mastery level 2, Terminator armour, 125

5 terminators, Mark of Nurgle, two power fists, two combi-weapons, heavy flamer 221

8 Plague Marines, power fist, two flamers 227
8 Plague Marines, power fist + meltabombs, two meltaguns 242
10 CSM, Mark of Nurgle, lightning claw, two plasma guns, 215

7 Havocs, Mark of Nurgle, 4 autocannons 159
7 Havocs, Mark of Nurgle, 4 missile launchers 179

The idea is a slow, implacable advance, spewing as much dakka as possible. Mostly from my Havocs.

>> No.20986881

>>20986877

The rage is there for Daemon Princes.

>> No.20986886

>>20986879

And if the land raider gets wrecked then your fucking mutilators are stranded, while your terminators can still pump out dakka.

>> No.20986890

>>20986880
>PG on CSM

But PM get FNP against gets hot right? Give them the PG

>> No.20986901

>>20986886
>implying the enemy wont shoot at the termies after they get dumped out when the raider blows up

>> No.20986902

>>20986879
Just freaking deep strike them and be happy.

>> No.20986903

>>20986890
The CSM are more shooty though. The Plague Marines come with plague knives as standard so I thought it made sense to give them the assaulty weapons.

>> No.20986907

>>20986901
So basically, your argument is that, since terminators are useless in every situation where the mutilators are also useless, it means mutilators are good?

>> No.20986910

Noob here assembling my army.

I've settled on a defiler with battle cannon, reaper and cc weapon

2x10 CSM with twin plasma guns (one with sword champ, one with fist champ)

35 autogun cultists with 3 stubbers and a champ with shotgun

3 obliterators

(I have all these models assembled already)

but I'm stumped on my termies.

I have two boxes. I'm going to use one box to convert characters (a sorceror, lord and apostle)

but what to do with the remaining 7?

i have lightning claws for 5 guys and 10 possessed power swords in addition to everything that comes in the boxes.

I can't figure out what their role is in the army. are they strictly close combat? should I just go 5xclaws, 1 chainfist and a heavy flamer and use them to rip up troops?

is there a shooty option for termies?

thanks /tg/

>> No.20986915

>>20986903
No. Plague Knives are a nice to have thing. Most of the time , you will be wounding on 4's anyway, so its not really that big of a deal


PM are best around 12" or so to maxmize their shootiness and using their toughness to shrug off most fire.

>> No.20986926

What is your opinion on purchasing ccw for the CSM, worth it?

>> No.20986931

>>20986886

That's a flaw even assault terminators share.

Mutilators by the way are easier to deep strike than termies due to smaller unit size.

Here's how paladins and mutilators compare against the most common target (spess mareen).

Mutilator with veteran of the long war does 2,25 wounds to space marines with lightning claws.

Paladin using sword or halberd shoots storm bolter and charges and gets Hammerhand off: 1,55 wounds, mutilators have 45% improvement. With Mark of Nurgle and veterans of the long war they're 10 points more expensive than paladins, more resistant to small arms, immune to ID from S8 and S9 and with much better CC ability for any single model.

They're useful as retinues for terminator lords and as Lone Wolf equivalents.

>> No.20986937

>>20986907

Combined with the fact that they outperform those terminators in their preferred close combat role easily, yes.

>> No.20986945

>>20986915
Poisoned changed in 6e, right? Now, if your regular To Wound is better than the Poisoned, you roll that instead, right?

>> No.20986949

>>20986945
No, you get re-rolls on the Poison, I believe

>> No.20986954

>>20986931

And when Terminators deep strike they can throw down some shooting and even potentially medium vehicle with reaper cannon fire.

The lack of shooting is what simply makes the mutilators lack of agility so much more severe. Even the smallest mishap can leave mutilators unable to do anything if they can't reach their opponents. Worst case scenario they arrive on turn three, scatter too far, and can't even pull off a charge in turn 4.

>> No.20986956

>>20986949
This, yeah. You still roll at 4+ no matter what, but you reroll to wound if you'd roll 4+ or better naturally.

>> No.20986970

>>20986937
Well, termies were mostly used as Termicide squad, so I contest the "CC is terminator's preffered shit" part;

And even then, Mutilator only point of is having the right weapon for the right job, and only every other turn. They simply aren't numerous enough for most jobs.

>> No.20986976

>>20986926
I think it will really come down to personal preference on how prepared you want to be. For me, 2 pts is enough to make me fine with having dedicated units for close action and fire support. However, if the meltagun bearers of a close action unit are in play, those 2 pt CCWs might just come out as filler for approaching the points limit.

>> No.20986980

>>20986970

what are termies for now?

>> No.20986985

>>20986949
>>20986956
No, not since 6th.

>> No.20986989

>>20986980
Termicide?

>> No.20986995

>>20986970

Terminators do pretty fine with power axes or mauls, you just select depending on the army you're facing.

You only need one or two fists in a squad for some dedicated anti-armor/MC hurting.

Personally I think a squad of 5 with two fists (one on the champ), a reaper and combi weapons on everyone else is gonna be the new norm.

>> No.20986996

Here is a Slaanesh at 1999. The HQ go witht he bikes and outflanks them.

Chaos Lord 180
+ Mark Of Slaanesh
+ Steed of Slaanesh
+ Burning Brand of Skalanthrax
+ Power Sword
+ Sigil of Corruption
Sorcerer 145
+ Master Level 2
+ Mark of Slaanesh
+ Sigil of Corruption
+ Steed of Slaanesh

10 Noise Marines 252
+ 4 Sonic Blaster
+ Blastmaster
+ Icon of Excess
w/ Rhino 52
+ Havoc Launcher
+ Warpflame Gargoyles
10 Noise Marines 252
+ 4 Sonic Blaster
+ Blastmaster
+ Icon of Excess
w/ Rhino 52
+ Havoc Launcher
+ Warpflame Gargoyles
10 Noise Marines 252
+ 4 Sonic Blaster
+ Blastmaster
+ Icon of Excess

6 Chaos Bikes 197
+ Mark of Slaanesh
+ Icon of Excess
+ 2 Meltaguns
6 Chaos Bikes 197
+ Mark of Slaanesh
+ Icon of Excess
+ 2 Meltaguns
Heldrake 170
w/ Hades Autocannon

5 Havocs 125
+ 4 Autocannons
+ Mark of Slaanesh
5 Havocs 125
+ 4 Autocannons
+ Mark of Slaanesh

1999

>> No.20987002

In thinking of a list like this:
Warpsmith
Aura of dark glory
Mark of nurgle
Gift of mutation

CSM x 10
Melta x 2
Champ/fist
Cc weps
Rhino

CSM
Melta x2
Champ/fist
Cc weps
Rhino

CSM x9
Melta x1
Champ/fist
Cc weps
Rhino

Cultists x 10
Auto guns

Cultists x 10
Auto guns

Helbrute
Power scourge

Helbrute
Power scourge

Heldrake
Baleflamer

Forgefiend

Forgefiend

Vindicator
Possession
Havoc launcher
Combi bolter

Ends up being 1846. I don't think my opponent would know wtf to kill. The intimidation factor is fantastic. All 20 cultists would just camp rear objective. They're split to avoid being all stuck in cc

>> No.20987003

>>20986949
>>20986956
>>20986985
The part that makes me unsure is this:
>… it always wounds on a fixed number, unless a lower result would be required, …

It says the same for melee and ranged. Melee does get the rerolls if S >= T.

>> No.20987008

>>20986995

Also terminators make better retinues for lords because they enable your Lords to benefit from Icons, which mutilators cannot take.

>> No.20987011

>>20986996
Non 9 man squads.

Get the fuck outta here

>> No.20987014

>>20987002

>aura of dark glory.

Why aren't you taking Sigil of Corruption instead?

>> No.20987021

So, given that I play Space Marines/Dark Eldar, what should I add to my army to account for the new codex? More plasma? More anti-tank to crack the Fiends?

I'm already packing a Razorwing Jetfighter, so Cultist Blobs should never be an issue.

>> No.20987025

>>20987021

Spam thunderfire cannons in low point games.

>> No.20987037

>>20987003
It wounds on 4+, unless S/T comparison would allows 3+ or 2+. And you get to re-roll on top of that.

>> No.20987040

>>20986996
>Mark of Slaanesh on Havocs that shouldn't get into close combat ever.

No. Just no. I understand you're trying to run a themed list, but those are just wasted points. Get more sonic weapons instead.

>> No.20987052

>>20987021

>Dark Eldar

Nothing, since DE are almost a hard counter to marines.

I do lol with huskblades being ap2 and champions having to challenge - outside of abaddon you'll spank most of them across the table in short order and go saiyan in no time.

>> No.20987058

>>20987011
1/10

>> No.20987074

>>20987008

Slaanesh and Khorne termies aren't that great bodyguards compared to T5 mutilators. Tzeentch, Nurgle and Undivided Icons are useless for Lords.

Minimum squad of Slaanesh termies with no options but Marks, Icon and Veterans is already 151 points. Two mutilators of Nurgle with Veterans would be 130 points for more wounds, almost same number of attacks (6 vs 6 and 8 vs 9), better weapons and T5.

Of course marked units as bodyguards work only for lords of the same god and undivided, so for a slaaneshi lord slaaneshi termies are better.

>> No.20987078

So, I'm planning to make fallen Salamanders who decided that if the Imperium couldn't protect their loved ones, chaos would. Would Huron Blackheart be a good representative for a chapter master, or should I go with a generic Chaos Lord?

>> No.20987080

I have a rules query. Assuming my opponent get's first turn, can I use Huron to infiltrate a jump pack chaos lord with dimensional key, and assault with said lord, hopefully unlocking the key on turn 1?

>> No.20987094

>>20987080

Yes.

>> No.20987110

Can I use Huron to infiltrate ANY infantry unit? Can I infiltrate stuff like Oblits and Terminators?

>> No.20987114

>>20987078
Generic Lord with the Burning Brand.

FIRE!

>> No.20987121

>>20987078

You gonna roll Dragon Warriors?

They're my new favourite warband since I discovered them.

>> No.20987124

>>20987110

Yes.

>> No.20987130

>>20987110
Yup. Any unit with the Infantry class can be infiltrated. I think Huron's going to be pretty popular.

>> No.20987139

If a fearless model joins a non-fearless unit, do all become fearless?

>> No.20987140

>>20987094
Oh boy, this could get some fun shenanigans. If I knew how to play, that is. One more question, do icons keep their ability to prevent deep strike scatter? I've seen it mentioned, but can't find it.

>> No.20987142

>>20987114
> 30 points for an s4 ap3 flamer

What am I missing that makes this good?

>>20987121
I was considering it. I really like the chainmail look.

>> No.20987151

>>20987139

Yes, that's why Lord hanging out with termies, chosen, mutilators or such is going to be popular.

>> No.20987152

>>20987142
Torrent.

Also AP3 flamer.

>> No.20987161

>>20987142
AP3, no cover and torrent?

>> No.20987163

>>20987037
It wasn't like that in 5e. I always considered the re-roll (which was melee only and still is) to be a sort of band-aid for those that do not benefit from the rule, because their S is high enough.

I don't get why they now made it "x+ or better", but still have the re-roll.

>> No.20987168

>>20987140
>do icons keep their ability to prevent deep strike scatter?

If they do, it's buried somewhere really obscure, because I don't see anything about it either. I believe they've lost that ability.

>> No.20987173

I play against a lot of guard and Eldar.

How viable is it to Stick my termie lord in a pack of termies and then give their dedicated raider to some possessed while they teleport in?

Also what's the optimal squad size for possessed? And what mark should I take? They all seem to work well with possessed.

>> No.20987177

>>20987142
Its not just a s4 ap3 flamer...

Its an s4 ap3 flamer with soulblaze and torrent (meaning it can be placed up to 12 inches away from the weapon).

Put that on a biker lord with a Sigil +4 invuln, or a lord in a metal box and watch as he toasts MEQs with near impunity.

>> No.20987187

>>20987163
so that models with high str would actually benefit from poison

the man example being that a MC with S6 and 4+ poison would get rr 4+ which is actually worse then 2+ that it would have had normally

>> No.20987191

>>20987173
Melee units and especially ones with Invulnerable Save (Daemons and such) benefit from every mark.

>> No.20987202

>>20987187
Yes, I get that, but just "x+ or better" OR "x+ and rerolls if S >= T" would do that. Melee has both now.

>> No.20987211

What do you classy bros and gals think about the generic psychic powers for use with this new codex?

I'm greatly enjoying the look of Biomancy and to a lesser extent Telepathy. Biomancy is probably going to be the automatic go-to for every psyker ever since it's so damn good, the rest of the schools are rather hit-or-miss.

>> No.20987216

>>20987202

If it was just "x+ or better" then poison would make no difference

>> No.20987226

>>20987211
Biomancy is going to be popular for Daemon Princes, I think, to try and up their survivability, whether that's through Iron Arm or Endurance. I'm not sure it'll be too useful for Sorcerors, though, who even with a buff or two are still pretty medicore combat characters.

>> No.20987230

>>20987052

Oh that sounds pretty nasty. I dont have much experience with the new Deldar, how would you people handle them with the new CSM codex?

>> No.20987236

>>20987211
Biomancy is only good on the Daemon Prince. Otherwise you're desperately hoping for a 2 or 3. It can be fine for a shooty force though.

Telepathy is where it's at, I say.

>> No.20987243

My list for an upcoming 530pts "40k in 40min" tournament.

Lord
65
30 cultists, pistol n ccw, 3 flamers
145
10 cultists, lasgun, stubber
65
4 spawns
120
5 havocs 4 rokkits
135

>> No.20987253

>>20987226
I think i'm gonna roll with Biomancy (hoping for life leech and endurance in particular, getting smite if I don't like the roll) and Telepathy Primaris though i'll first consider my roll and if I can apply it properly to my current army.

That said, I DO have the Scrolls of Magnus so I can get whatever the hell I want.

>> No.20987261

>>20987253
This is on a Tzeentchian TS Sorc HQ, by the way.

>> No.20987265

>>20987243
Those Havocs are going to be mauled by firepower really quickly. Even in a 500 point game it's not going to be hard to quickly pick off a few of them and drastically cut down their effectiveness. I'd ditch the Spawn, up their numbers a bit, and swap the Lord for a Dark Apostle.

>> No.20987266

>>20987236

I respectfully disagree with you, I think all Biomancy spells are useful except number 6. Though I can imagine it would be pretty fun to blow up a IG command squad or a bunch of Eldar with it.

>> No.20987271

>>20987216
It does make a difference against high T. The important part of "x+ or better" is that it never makes your To Wound worse.

E.g. you have 4 S and Poisoned (4+). Vs:
2 T: 2+
3 T: 3+
4 T: 4+
5 T: 4+
etc.

>> No.20987274

>>20985790
What is this "MURDER SWORD" and where is it from?

>> No.20987278

>>20987253
If you choose Biomancy for something else than Enfeeble, you shouldn't play a sorcerer at all because clearly the buff/debuff class wasn't your forte.

>> No.20987281

>>20987271

And vs T4 or less you get reroll to wound.

>> No.20987283

>>20987266
Even against T3 opponents, Hemorrhage is rubbish. You're better off just swapping it for Smite.

>> No.20987290

>>20987274
>What is this "MURDER SWORD"
It's the MURDER SWORD, a SWORD that MURDER things.
>where is it from
Are you for real?

>> No.20987295

>>20987274
It's one of the special one-per-army items in the book. At the start of the game, you nominate a character. Against anyone else, it's just a normal power sword. Against that character, it doubles your strength, becomes AP2, and inflicts Instant Death.

>> No.20987303

>>20987274
>>20987295
It's also the Anathame.

>> No.20987311

This is a Khorne/Nurgle Combo at 1500. I mostly play vs. Terminators and not a lot of flyers, thoughts?

=HQ= [155]
Chaos Lord-65 (145) {joins with the Chaos Bikers}
Mark of Khorne
Juggernaut
Axe of Blind Fury

=Troops= [578]
Chaos Space Marines-75 (144)
3x Additional Marines
1x Plasma Gun
Champion has a Power Mace

Chaos Space Marines-75 (144)
3x Additional Marines
1x Plasma Gun
Champion has a Power Mace

Chaos Cultists-50 (145)
20x Additional Cultists
3x Heavy Stubbers

Chaos Cultists-50 (145)
20x Additional Cultists
3x Heavy Stubbers

=Elites= [306]
Chaos Terminators-95 (153)
1x Additional Terminator with Chainfist-43
3x Combi-Meltas
Mark of Khorne
All have Power Axes

Chaos Terminators-95 (153)
1x Additional Terminator with Chainfist
3x Combi-Meltas
All have Power Axes

=Heavy Support= [304]
2x Obliterators-140 (152)
Mark of Nurgle

1x Obliterator-70 (76)
Mark of Nurgle

1x Obliterator-70 (76)
Mark of Nurgle

=Fast Attack= (164)
7x Chaos Bikers-150 (164)
Mark of Khorne

>> No.20987313

>>20987295
It's never a normal power sword, because daemon weapon. It still give a truckload of attacks when the guy to MURDER isn't right there.

>> No.20987314

>>20987283

Oh I never said it was good. But hell, Im gonna use it whenver I roll it, cause if I actually DO manage to blow people up with it, Im gonna get a good chuckle out of it.

>> No.20987320

>>20987230

Heldrake does a number on DE, especially since they usually lack flyers thenselves but even against the occasional razorwing two dark lances are not going to cut it against AV12 5++ IWND.

>> No.20987328

>>20987271

Did you forget the example I gave? For S6 MC it would do nothing ecause they wound everything on 2+. Poison wouldn't have any effect

>> No.20987331

>>20987313
It's not a Daemon Weapon. It doesn't have the 'Daemon Weapon' rule.

>> No.20987337

So, /tg/, I'm considering getting into chaos. My local meta has like three tyranid players playing swarms of T6 flying MCs (Oh God It's In My Face!), two DE players playing the 'swarm of vheicles' list, an ork player, and a necron, plus one guy who shows up now and then with either BA or Imperial Fists. Are there any must-have units for this environment?

>>20987328
Wraithlords.

>> No.20987341

>>20987331
Oh fuck!

>> No.20987359

>>20987281
If it's melee. Here's the comparison between 5e and 6e in all situations for Poisoned (4+).

>> No.20987368

>>20987337
Great, a single unit is entire game should validate poison on S6 MCs being useless against everything else

Moron

>> No.20987372

There was a very lengthy debate at my FLGS today over whether the MURDER SWORD was worth taking. Kind of seems like overkill if you ask me, and you also have to rely on your opponent actually being forced to pit the target character against the bearer of the sword, don't you?

>> No.20987380

>>20987341
Yeah, when you get down to it, the MURDER SWORD isn't really THAT good. You're paying 35 points for a generic power sword that will absolutely murderize a single character.

IF you can get to him. I can totally see a player just staying the fuck away from the wielder or tarpitting the bearer of the sword, making you waste the points.

>> No.20987383

>>20987372

It's pretty useless actually.

>> No.20987398

>>20987380
Solution :
Chaos lord, MoS, Steed, Murder Sword, Veteran.

Now, I am a 140 points human missile, ready to kill your Warlord. Won't work against everyone obviously.

>> No.20987410

>>20987372
It's a gamble.

Best case scenario: you've paid 35 points to utterly fuck over an opponent's HQ that might cost 200+ points.

Worst case scenario: HQ stays away from you, tarpits you or simply curbstomps the wielder with focused fire.

It's amazing in theory but quite unreliable when battletime comes.

>> No.20987413

>>20987372
MURDER sword lord vs MURDER sword lord

WHO WINS?

>> No.20987417

>>20987398

But what Lord would actually necessitate the need for this much killy power AND be threatened by it?

>> No.20987422

>>20987413
The guy whose dice are microwaved.

>> No.20987424

>>20987372
It's situational. If you have trouble with someone running a character - special or otherwise - that you're not sure how to deal with, then the Murder Sword might be a useful equaliser - or at least, might keep it from fighting by refusing challenges.

>> No.20987432

>Play Chaos vs Draigowing list
>Nominate a single paladin as MURDER SWORD target
>Get into base contact with said model, wipe entire Paladin squad in one turn

>> No.20987446

>>20987424

Depends on the character. If they've got Eternal Warrior or a really good Invulnerable save then it isn't going to be worth it.

You're not going to send your lord hunting Drazhar or something.

>> No.20987452

>>20987413
The one with MoS or MoN.

>>20987417
Most Chaos lords, most SM HQ, Tyrannid Prince, Greater Demons, Bjorn, Mephiston... Actually, only Necron Lords aren't much threatened by it and that's fine because that's their thing.

>>20987432
Paladins aren't character anymore IIRC, sorry.

>> No.20987454

>>20987432

You can't do that, it has to be a character.

>> No.20987457

>>20987446
AP1 and double strength is pretty great, though. Even if they have EW

>> No.20987460

>>20987452
>>20987454
Nominate the seargant then?

>> No.20987462

>>20987452

Mephiston will likely go first and rip your lord to shreds, and SM HQs have a good chance of coming with stormshields which have a good chance of weathering all of your attacks.

>> No.20987464

>>20987432
Can't do that, it only affects 1 character. Not sure if Paladins are characters but you'd only be curbstomping that one single paladin, then the rest would gangfuck you like a Sasha Grey porno.

>> No.20987486

>>20987464
No, the MURDER is on as long as the guy stand right in front of you. You don't have to actually attack him (though it's gonna be tough doing otherwise).

>> No.20987488

>>20987464
> it only affects 1 character.

Not true. The weapon profile changes when you're in base contact with the nominated character, not for attacks directed against that character. So it would be perfectly legal to get into base contact with the nominated character, have an Aspiring Champion declare a challenge, while your Lord waxes the squad with his powered up weapon.

>> No.20987494

>>20987462

Storm shield guy has 50% chance to survive just three attacks from Murder Sword and usually there'll be much more coming.

>> No.20987500

>>20987488
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiit, ok then. MURDER SWORD is more viable when used against squads.

>> No.20987504

>>20987494

Challenge rules prevent that, the models in a challenge are considered to be b2b only with each other as long as it is going on.

>> No.20987506

>>20987500
That's kind of ironic.

>> No.20987519

>>20987494

>50% chance to survive.

Isn't it somewhat higher? Considering he only fails on 1s and 2s?

Stormshields are 3++ bro.

>> No.20987522

>>20987488

Yeah, sounds pretty good. Compared to Blissgiver, it's cheaper, doesn't get the bonus d6 attacks, but doubles your strength? Definitely better for killing Monstrous Creatures that failed to roll Iron Arm.

>> No.20987559

>>20987519

No, it isn't higher,

The chance to survive one attack is
1 - 0.75(hatred)*5/6*1/3 = 0.79167 = 79.167%
for three attacks it is
0.79167^3 = 0.49617 = 49,617%

>> No.20987569

Assault my lord?

I hope you like D3 S4AP3 Overwatch!

>> No.20987590

Best sight in the codex : Daemon Prince with the burning brand.

A 5 meter giant with a normally sized flamer.

>> No.20987598

>>20987590

You can always just fluff it as a different flame attack than the Burning Brand, and model something bigger on him.

>> No.20987603

>>20987590
I'm suddenly reminded of this.

>> No.20987620

>>20987598
That would miss the point entirely.

>> No.20987622

>Khorne Beserkers
>Noise Marines
>Plague Marines

Why are Thousand Sons called Rubric Marines?

Are Sons the only CSM that are Rubri and no one else?

>> No.20987627

>>20987432
>>20987452
>>20987454
>>20987464

According to the rulebook Paladins are characters so this should work. Unless it got FAQ'd. Which would be gay.

>> No.20987632

>>20987590

You can always say it is his foul breath.

Or a fingerbeam.

>> No.20987635

>>20987627
It was. Like Nobz and Wolf Guard in a single squad.

>> No.20987636

>>20987622
Yeah, they were named after the spell Ahriman cast - the Rubric of Ahriman - which turned them into sealed suits full of dust.

>> No.20987654

>>20987622
Rubrics are the remnants of the not-psyker Thousand Sons. Which is why they automatically have Veterans of the Long War, by the way.

>> No.20987682

>>20987635
Con someone show me where this was FAQ'd? I can't find it

>> No.20987697

Axe of blind fury can't be taken on a daemon prince.

Sick of seeing this on every single forum or board I go on, it requires the bearer to have the Mark of Khorne.

Daemon Princes cannot take marks.

>> No.20987824

So how viable is Undivided? I have an army dedicated to satan that's been kicking around since the early 90s, and I'd really like them to be viable this edition.

>> No.20987867

>>20987697
So the only thing that could benefit from the axe having rage can't take it by RAW?
A ton of shit they need to errata and the codex hasn't even hit the ground yet. Where did this scan come from anyway? Are we sure there isn't a slightly more up to date version without this plethora of retarded mistakes (and hopefully another serving a rewards, gear and artefacts)?

>> No.20987926

lel the Warseer threads on this book are like a Jewish wake. everybody tearing their clothes and shit.

I'm actually glad, because I started building my chaos space marines army before I even knew about Dark Vengeance or the new army book, so I was a little worried that everybody and their mother was going to be running CSMs.

Glad to see the power gamers think this book sucks as it means I'll likely be one of the only guys running CSMs since my store is all broke kids who only start a new army upon confirmation that it's the most overpowered option available to them

>> No.20987939

>>20987697
Bullshit. Anyone that'd say that Daemons of Khorne don't count for the mark requirements isn't anyone I'd want to play against anyways.

>> No.20988063

>>20987926

Oh man Whineseer. If you thought that was bad, you should see Heresy-online. They really think that this codex is MUCH worse than Gavdex.

>> No.20988089

>>20988063
>They really think that this codex is MUCH worse than Gavdex.

Oh, for god's sake.

You know, this just reinforces why I think /tg/, despite it's flaws, is one of the best places to talk about 40k on the internet. The reaction to the book here was almost overwhelmingly positive, with lots of threads happily discussing what sort of crazy things could be done with the new book.

Everywhere else just seems to be bitching and complaining about not getting Cult Terminators.

>> No.20988110

>>20987926

Power gamers don't actually think the book sucks, the guys who post on warseer and vocally complain aren't Adepticon/Nova winners or anything.

Though Darkwynn "mr Leafblower" himself claimed necrons suck when they came out. So not even the winners are reliable.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/11/40k-editorial-whats-fuss-about-necrons.html

>> No.20988120

>>20988089
The funny part about that is that cult terminators are almost completely viable.

Nurgle gives you terminators with fear and increased toughness, Slaanesh makes them faster and hopped up on drugs, khorne makes them CC steamroller and tzeentch... well yeah, tzeentch is the only one who sucks dick with the fucking soul blaze. This would be fixable if they made Inferno bolts part of the icon or at LEAST made them special issue wargear.

Regardless. They are clearly in the wrong and have no IMAGINATION.

>> No.20988135

>>20987926
>Glad to see the power gamers think this book sucks as it means I'll likely be one of the only guys running CSMs since my store is all broke kids who only start a new army upon confirmation that it's the most overpowered option available to them

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss us power gamers finding combos that will work wonders. I'm thinking Huron Blackheart with 2 units of Raptors and a big blob of Marines Infiltrating (going 2nd) will be very popular. That's assuming you roll 3 units obviously.

This book will be a sleeper codex like the Necrons were - they didn't look great on the face of it but after a few games things will start to fall into place.

As for whining about the book, I'd like to have seen more Cult units (Cult Termies with Sonic weaponary etc) but maybe they'll put them in White Dwarf like they did with the old Index Astartes.

*Crosses fingers*

>> No.20988172

>>20988135
>I'm thinking Huron Blackheart with 2 units of Raptors

Pretty sure this wouldn't work. Raptors are Jump Infantry, and Huron can only infiltrate Infantry units. The idea of infiltrating a huge unit of 20 Marines is worth a punt, though.

>> No.20988189

>>20988089
To be fair, there really isn't a reason why they didn't allow cult-terminators other than "Lol, no models".

But yes, Whineseer is atrocious. The only forum I think is actually any good, has to be The-Waaagh. But they're a small niche community of dedicated fans and hobbyiests.

I only wish the refugees who came to /tg/ to discuss 40k, didn't make so many useless shitposts.

>> No.20988193

What's a good way to turn the entirety of Dark Vengeance's contents into a solid list at the 1500 point mark? Note that I'm planning on merging both sides together.

>> No.20988206

>>20988135
>New WD
>Return of Index Astartes and Chapter Approved
>more artefacts, rewards, special issue gear, god specific boon tables, cult army variants, Cypher, Doomrider, and frequent errata/FAQ
>same stuff for all the armies as they come out
>plus mini-dexes for fringe armies and allies
I WANT TO BELIEVE

>> No.20988210

>>20988089

I´m not even joking. I wish I made that up but I have seen statements in the line of "at least Gavdex was playable". That shit actually made me quite scared before I could read the scanned codex and realise that it was all bullshit.

>> No.20988224

>>20988206
That would be amazing but it won't happen. You have to be realistic about these things.

>> No.20988225

>>20988206

That would be so sweet and would actually make WD something to look forward to.

>> No.20988272

Guys, I hate the look of the Forge/Mauler Fiend models, but I had an idea:

My army is a recent renegade force, so would you find it acceptable if Chaosy- Ironclad Dreadnoughts were used as Maulerfiends and rifleman-style dreadnaughts used as Forgefiends?

>> No.20988275

>>20988193
I think I calculated in a previous thread that, with minimum upgrades and a few conversions, you could get about 1100-1200 points out of the box. By adding marks, Icons, and heaping extra wargear onto the Chaos Lord, you could probably bring it up further, but I think you'll be struggling to get 1500 points out of it.

It's also worth mentioning that I wouldn't call it a solid list.

>> No.20988286

>>20988272
Way too small, man.

They're like, battle-tank sized

>> No.20988288

Guys, I have a confession to make. I've always wanted to field a footslogging CSM army with A LOT of marines. Ithink th time has come. So, wht units and what marks should i take for my Ultimate Chaos Horde of Doom?

>> No.20988290

>>20988224
>>20988225

Keep dreaming guys.

-White Dwarf Department

>> No.20988305

>>20988272
Way, way too small. The things are on Trygon bases and almost fill them - a Dreadnought really wouldn't be the right size to act as a suitable replacement.

>> No.20988317

Cultists are an option.

Cultists will need a cult leader.

>> No.20988323

>>20988210
Compared to the 5e dexes, the new Chaos one is substantially lower on the power scale. However, so was the 8th WFB army books. I can see how Chaos fans could be pissed as hell after codices like IG, SW, BA, GK, Necrons... But that's all temporary. If GW continues on this course, then 6th *might* actually have some semblance of balance eventually.

I do agree though that it is fucking retarded to say this new codex is unplayable. I looked over the scans myself and was somewhat impressed by it. Lots of options, few glaring 'problem' units. The biggest problem I found was maintaining the 'super-expensive MEQ-killer' unit design to 1k Sons. This codex actually got me a tiny bit amused to try to build some army lists with... Me, an ex-40k Ork player with a chip on his shoulder and has zero interest in marines. I'd say they did a decent job on it.

>> No.20988350

/tg/ how viable is running a few squads of 20 Bezerkers to go buttfuck the enemy now?

>> No.20988357

>>20988206
>God-specific boon tables

If a model has a mark of a specific god, roll a D2. 1 = generic table, 2 = god-specific table.

Khorne could have shit like "1 of your next attacks is AP2", Nurgle "The next wound you save bounces back off your bloated gut and toward the firer", Slaanesh "roll D3, in your next CC fight, that amount of models cannot attack due to being enamoured by your disgusting beauty and pheromones", Tzeentch "You automatically pass your next psychic test"

Fun one-use shit and a handful of permanents.

>> No.20988390

>>20988350
as viable as it was previously.

That is, pretty good, though you'll want to give your champion a chainaxe in addition to his fist since he'll be challenging pretty often.

Bad if your local meta has a lot of plasma cannons/pie plates, but that's about it.

>> No.20988398

>>20988350
20 Berserkers with an Icon of Wrath and Champion with a Power Weapon and Meltabombs will cost 425 points. Two of those, a Khorne Lord, and a couple of Maulerfiends will probably set you back 1250-1300 points or so. Pick up some ranged anti-tank and a horde of cultists to act as a screen for the berserkers and you could have a pretty funny list on your hand.

>> No.20988419

>>20988317

I want to see a miniature cultist-chan

>> No.20988424

>>20988357
Y'know what, let's fucking MAKE god-specific boon tables ourselves to use in fun games with friends.

>> No.20988428

>ITT: Grognags argue about things they know next to nothing about. No one backs their claims up and baseless accusations fly high and low.

Stay classy, tg, stay classy.

>> No.20988446

>>20988225
I miss those days
When a new issue could mean a huge change to your army for the better,
Or you might get an actual advance look at a coming codex and the design behind it,
And battle reports were well detailed and full of humor.
Alas, GW has lost the STC of a good magazine platform that enhances and promotes the game. Will it ever be found on some distant world?

>> No.20988458

>>20988428
I think you and I are really reading two completely different threads.

>> No.20988469

>Still no cult terminators
>Mark of Tzeentch got even worse

I'm done. PRAISE THE EMPEROR.

>> No.20988489

>>20988286
>>20988305

Godsdammit. I was so sure that I had found a good way to represent them. Are there any ideas floating out there?

And not that I don't believe you, but are there any side-by-side comparisons of Fiends with Dreadnaughts?

>> No.20988494

>>20988323

>compared to 5e dexes this is not as good

Don't see it. This book is substantially better than the BA dex.

>> No.20988516

>>20988419
Not mine, but it'll certainly serve as inspiration.

>> No.20988525

>>20988494
I disagree.

>> No.20988581

>>20988469
>>Mark of Tzeentch got even worse

This, a 6++ save, really?

>> No.20988585

>Power Gamers calls this book underwhelming
>Still going to be called a WAAK player when using Kharn and Lucius builds

thisiswhywecan'thavenicethings.gif

>> No.20988600

>>20988585
Sorry for asking but, WAAK?

>> No.20988613

>>20988525

We can put out many comparisons.

Havocs with most weapon configurations are cheaper than the BA equivalent, 4 autocannon wielders with Mark of Nurgle are as cheap as the cheapest BA devs with 4 weapons.

Normal marines of Khorne are undoubtedly better than BA assault marines without jump packs (Rage, Counterattack and Ld10 for the same price even with rhino discount), and thanks to the special weapons galore Raptors are as well. BA bikers are way, way worse than chaos bikers offensively in basic configuration, and cost more than Chaos Bikes given a Mark and Veterans upgrade. The only advantage BA have in such situations is ATSKNF, and that is a rule which eases you when you are *losing*.

Chaos Spawn are better than BA fast assault units for fuck's sake, beast movement, fearless, purely beneficial random table,15 T6 wounds and 5d6+10 S5 attacks on charge. Maulerfiends are much faster than dreads, even jumper dreads, and never need to hug cover. Heldrake with baleflamer is much better marine killer than a scouting baal predator with flamestorm cannon, harder to kill and with longer reach.

Sanguinary Guard beat Warp Talons. And that's pretty much it.

>> No.20988637

God Damnit Post!
So should I get back into this with my Iron Warriors? What is viable for me? I'd like it to be fluffy but powerful.

>> No.20988656

>>20988637
Iron Warriors are really back in style with this dex. You can take Warpsmith HQs and Daemon Engine support which is pretty fluffy for them.

>> No.20988695

So, dumb question: I've been playing a lot of 40k in 40 mins type stuff (500 points) so it's been a few editions since I've played a proper battle.

Is 1500 points still the go-to size? Ie if I walk into my FLGS with 1500 point army will I find matchups?

>> No.20988705

>>20988600


not sure what the abbreviation stands for, it's what the casual players have been referring lately to players that know how to lawnmower other people's armies. Maybe it's not the proper term but that's what that community (in particular the ones who just play for the fluff and not ''winning'' ) has been referring to me for the least, hell I even got banned from them since 5th edition while using Tyranids which my build was mostly just 1-2 Tervigons, 6 Hive guards and the rest for variety.

>> No.20988712

>>20988705
I believe it's 'WAAC', which means 'Win At All Costs'. I heard it bandied around on DakkaDakka a lot back when I posted there.

Speaking of which, I wonder what state that place is in now.

>> No.20988726

>>20987939
>Bullshit. Anyone that'd say that Daemons of Khorne don't count for the mark requirements isn't anyone I'd want to play against anyways.

I'm gonna have to stop you right there, that item is clearly balanced around lords using it, using a daemon prince to minimise the penalty to WS is just as much bullshit.

So conversely more people are likely to not want to play against you attempting to bend the rules to get it the way you want it.

>> No.20988764

Can Anybody help me bring my thoughts into a solid list?

I want to make a fluffy TSons army. Army coolness being 1st priority, effectiveness 2nd. I have conversion ideas for all models, so if a dragon is useful, don't not tell me because it doesn't look like Thousand Sons.

My local meta is about 50% Marines, with a few IG, 2 Orks, 2 Eldar, 1 Tau and 2 Dark Eldar Armies. So I think I'll be able to appreciate that AP3 bolter a hell of a lot, but I am drawing a blank for other options.

I want to run a few squads of them, some termies maybe, and 2 or three fiends. With magnetized parts to mix and match dakka/choppa fiends.

Any Ideas for a 2000pt well rounded TSons list?

>> No.20988789

>>20988764


10 tsons with rhino and icon or hell even 20 tsons squads are viable choices now, 2 squads of tsons and 2-3 squads of pink horrors for that dakka dakka.

the rest is really up to you from there, have fun!

captcha: bovidsc (Ward)

>> No.20988816

So, is it just me, or does Salvo only letting you fire at half range if you've moved make sonic blasters pretty shitty? Yeah they got cheaper, but what's the point if you now have to be static?

>> No.20988824

>>20988764
This is mine, as a fellow fluffy TS player:

HQ: Sorc, +2 mastery, terminator, MoT, combi-weapon, Sigil, Spell familiar, Burning brand artefact, scrolls of magnus, gift = 282
HQ: Dark Apostle, veteran, black mace, MoT, Ichor blood, combat familiar, gift = 195

Troops: 8+1 rubrics/sorc, gift = 252
Troops: 8+1 rubrics/sorc, gift = 252
Troops: 19+1 Cultists/champ, MoT = 110

Elite: 4+1 Termies/champ, 2 chainfists, 3 combi-weapons, 1 R.AC, MoT, vets, gift = 271

Heavy Support: Land Raider, Havoc launcher, combi-weapon, dirge caster, warpflame gargoyles, extra armour = 272
Heavy Suppost: 3x Obliterators, MoT = 234
Heavy Support: Maulerfiend = 125

Total: 1991

Cultists: Box of LotR army of the dead. Souls of Terra's ancient warriors called from the warp to fight Terra's current defenders.
Maulerfiend: Tomb Kings Warsphinx.
Obliterators: Mind-controlled slaves from other warbands.
Dark Apostle: Sorceror possessed by the Will of Tzeentch itself.

9 points for you to dick around with. That's part of my army's fluff, just for reference. Good luck, fellow Prosperine.

>> No.20988833

>>20988726

The funny thing is that a drop from WS9 to WS8 is far more significant than drop from WS6 to WS5. Your axe prince would now get hit on 4+ by every spess maren, necron and ork.

Using a daemon prince to negate Black Mace's AP4 is a much more powerful combo, and unquestionably legal.

>> No.20988840

>>20988824
Shit, ditch the combi-weapon as I took the burning brand, my bad! sorc HQ is actually 275 points and you have 16 points of dickery free.

>> No.20988854

I think the idea that shooting back at a squad that's charging, with all those Salvo shots would be nasty and with that I5 they will most of the time get to strike first and even whip out the whole squad before they can even do anything.

I think they also ignore cover saves which is a bane to Guardsmen/other cultists

>> No.20988869

>>20988824
is 2 squads of sons and 1 squad of cultists going to give you the bodies you need? especially to hold objectives?

Thanks, though. Looks really fun! I planned on using the necrosphinx, too. For Obliterators I planned on using Terminator Sorcerors with some sort of way to designate them as magic hurling shooty spell machines

>> No.20988883

>>20988789
9 tsons or 18 tsons (including 1 sorc in each count) is more fluffy

>> No.20988903

>>20988869
Well, I only play with a group of friends and to be honest I've played for 2~ years and never once played an objective game. We all just play "FUCK THE OPPONENT UP" games, total destruction.

I've never played an objective game. I should be ashamed but them's the breaks around here, I guess. Feel free to change stuff about to your liking, I just gave you my list as an example. thanks for the compliment too!

>> No.20988924

>>20988816
Yes. If they at least had increased the range as well…

>> No.20988947

My list doesn't change.
>Terminator Khorne Lord with lightning claws + 8 Berzerkers in a Land Raider
>Plague Marines in units of 7 in Rhinos
>More Berzerkers if I feel like it
>if I haven't gone like 1000 points over the limit, add more shit.

fuckin' Elites are a competitive slot. especially since I don't want to have to take another Lord to make Plague Marines troops, because I might want a wizard or a satanic techmarine or an evil chaplain.

>> No.20988956

>>20988883
I like that 9 TSons is fluffy. Lets me put a sorcerer in the unit for backup and still fit it in a rhino.

>> No.20988974

Cult Troops should be.... Troops.... if you take the magic number.

And/or you should HAVE to take the magic number, no choice allowed.

>>20988956

if you have 9 TSons you already have a sorceror in there.

>> No.20989025

>>20988974
>Cult Troops should be.... Troops.... if you take the magic number.
Except that's a terrible idea and would mean your army would be half its size.

>> No.20989028

>>20988974
Aspiring sorcerer. He is not a true sorcerer yet.

>> No.20989045

>>20985729
OP is an hero

>> No.20989067

>>20988974
Why you hate noise marines?

>> No.20989108

Whats the verdict on the new noise marines?

>> No.20989132

>>20988275
In that case, I guess I'll use a copious amount of Marks and other upgrades MURDER SWORD to fill up to the limit. Any suggestions for when I get money to actually flesh this army out with new units?

>> No.20989578

AnyAnon could drop me White Dwarf Update for Codex Daemons? Couldn't find it on /rs/

>> No.20989650

Lol the armylists i´ve seen in this thread fucking sucks. A 4th edition dual lash army with obliterators would rape everything posted here 2d6 new anuses.

>> No.20989681

>>20989650
someone jelly they have to throw away their princes?

>> No.20989724

>>20989650
That was honestly the most pathetic trolling attempt I've ever seen.

>> No.20989778

Rolled 6, 5 = 11

>>20989578
Second.

>> No.20989787

>>20989778
They told me I could become anything

So I became a Daemon Prince

>> No.20989791

>>20989681

I have used the models as count as BA or Space Wolf for some time and will be doing so for a time. But it is still comical to see new people flock to chaos when they got a even shittier armylist.

>> No.20989802

>>20988764
>>20988824
Why dont you use a chaos dragon model for a helldrake with that flamer?
It definitely fits Tzeentchian theme and somebody shoot me right now if it wouldn't be cool to have it flying the skies as the 1ksons inferno bolt all around.

>> No.20989817

>>20989045
Shit! Is that a trap?

>> No.20989864

A sticky? Nice

>> No.20989882

Rolled 1, 3 = 4

> go get a shower
> return to check on thread before work
> my thread is a sticky

WELP, I HAVE PLEASED THE THREAD GODS. ROLLING FOR BOON.

>> No.20989885

We sticky now!!!

>> No.20989886

>>20989882
well fuck.

>> No.20989892

>>20989882
>>20989885

>> No.20989900

So yeah, working on a fun little death guard list.


Typhus - 230 Points
3x Chaos Spawn = 90
Mark Of NUrgle = 18

7x Plague Marines = 168
+ 2x Meltagun = 20
Rhino = 35


7x Plague Marines = 168
+ 2x Meltagun = 20


7x Plague Marines = 168
+ 2x Meltagun = 20

3x Obliterators w/ Mark of NUrgle = 228

190 points left

I know that spawn don't go well with typhus becuase of the entire beast movement thng, but I think the T6 bodyguards shtick could work well.

What should I shove in the last 160 points

>> No.20989905

>>20989900
Forgot to stick my chaos cultst objective camper in
30 Chaos Cultists = 130
3x Heavy Stubber = 15

>> No.20989915

>>20989900
More Rhinos? Maybe split the oblits into 2x2.

>> No.20989926

>>20989915
Iffy on the need for more rhinos. Hoping that I can fit more bodies in for the cost which hopefully balances out.

>> No.20990029

sage for the pointless god

>> No.20990065

>>20989108
Their role changed pretty hard. They became a long-range anti-infantry unit. Well no, you can still do the old 6-guys-and-a-siren squad but well... Why?

Two Slaaneshi sorcerors and some noise marines makes an absolutely brutal shooting. All them dices and all them psychic +1S to sonic weapons.

>> No.20990070

A much-needed reminder that Abaddon is now superior to his Imperial counterparts.

6e Abaddon charging does 6,05 wounds against marines with Talon of Horus (24% improvement). Drach'nyen averages 4,56 wounds to terminators and marines - over 40% improvement from 4e Abaddon.

When getting charged, Talon does 5,19 wounds to Marines (20% improvement) and Drach'nyen does 4,12 wounds to terminators, again over 40% improvement.

If combat goes on more than one round Hatred wears off and Talon falls behind, but Drach'nyen still does 4,79 wounds to marines and 3,19 wounds to terminators. 11% improvement. Against guardsmen and eldar Drach'nyen's additional attacks give 6e Abaddon an advantage over his old self in every situation, even with no Hatred and Preferred Enemy to help him.

He's now 10 points cheaper, makes chaos marine units within 12'' of him reroll 1's to hit, wound and armor penetration against all loyalist marines in shooting and close combat, and makes Chosen troops.

He also beats the likes of Mephiston, Draigo, Lysander, Logan and Calgar in a challenge.

>> No.20990073

>>20990029
>saging a sticky

wut

>> No.20990074

MFW I can't deepstrike using Icons anymore

>> No.20990081

>>20990029
Saging a sticky, edgy

>>20989926
Rhinos would shield your plagues after you rushed them towards objectives. They would become a pain in the ass to flush out.

I'd suggest more bodies but you have some cultists as well. Maybe you can bring in a predator or a dinobot.

>> No.20990099

A lot of people are talking about how the MURDER SWORD is effective against one guy, but did anyone consider that it can not only murder the shit out of the character you choose, but also anyone with the balls to travel with him?

>> No.20990102

>>20990065
Most of their shit is still 24", unless you're talking about the Blastmaster, which is still "one for each 10 mooks". Doesn't sound like overwhelming long-range fire support to me.

>> No.20990104

Okay guys I had a idea
Chaos Army
Cultists, Khorne Berserkers, Noise Marines, and the Murder Sword to create a Dethkolk themed chaos army.

>> No.20990113

>>20990099
As far as I know you nominate an enemy character and that's about it. The bonus won't apply to the unit he's in.

>> No.20990117

>>20990099
It also works on monstrous creatures.
Dreadknights giving you problems? Murder it!

>> No.20990121

>>20990104

>> No.20990128

>>20990113
It says you get the bonus "when in base contact". So if you don't challenge the character, but get in base contact, the wounds are applied to his squad.

>> No.20990136

>>20990099
It can. You're still gonna have to MURDER the guy first because he's in base contact and will probably eat some S8 AP1 slashes.

>>20990102
The range isn't overwhelming. The fire is. And full firepower at 24" is still better than quite a chunk of the book.

>> No.20990140

>>20990128
Ah! I see what you mean now! Very good news.

>> No.20990142

>>20990117
No it doesn't.

>> No.20990151

>>20990136
Providing you didn't move, which makes it kind of iffy IMO. I guess you rush them with a Rhino and make them stand still for the rest of the match (or as long as you can).

Which is... eh..

>> No.20990160

>5 points for Soul Blaze on any vehicle ever.

Also, if I'm reading this correctly, I can give my Rhino a Combi-Bolter, a Combi-Weapon and a Havoc Launcher at the same time.
Is this legit?

>> No.20990165

>>20990151
provided*

>>20990117
Only if you're in base contact with BOTH the nominated enemy character -and- the MC I believe.

>> No.20990167

Noise Marines make good objective campers though.

>> No.20990168

>>20990142
My bad your right, still though solves any problems you may have with a enemy hero.

>> No.20990181

>>20990165
The number of stuff you can take from each armory section is being currently debated.

We'll have to wait and see what happens when the FAQ comes out.

>> No.20990193

>>20990181
meant to quote
>>20990160

Adding that IMO, it doesn't make a lot of sense being able to take more than one.

>> No.20990235

>>20990160
NONE WEAPONER.jpg

>> No.20990244

>>20990142
It does work on dreadknights, they are characters (just like Trygon Primes and heavy support daemon princes).

>> No.20990255

>>20990070
>6e Abaddon charging does 6,05 wounds against marines with Talon of Horus (24% improvement)

how does that work if he only has 6 attacks on the charge?

Abaddon is worse

>> No.20990262

>>20990244
>champion of chaos
>must challenge trygon primes

Smiling as I try to picture it happening.

>> No.20990264

Goddamn, having a real hard time picking a HQ for a 1k pts list.

>> No.20990273

>>20990255

>Abaddon is worse

No, but evidently you have not read his rules.

>> No.20990275

>>20990264
I know that feel. Been trying to come up with an idea for 1500-2000 pts for a couple days now. Always end up giving up on it.

>> No.20990279

>>20986910

>I've settled on a defiler with battle cannon, reaper and cc weapon
>cc weapon

No such thing.

Now it's either Power Scourge, Havoc Launcher or Heavy Flamer.

>> No.20990297

>>20990279

And the Havoc Launcher and Flamer are useless if you want to be firing the Battle Cannon.

>> No.20990300

>>20990255
4 base, +2 rage, +1 2 specialist weapons.

>> No.20990301

>>20990142

It technically works on dreadknights as they are characters.

>> No.20990310

>>20990262
Well, that's a job for Warpman, the MoS Warp Talon Champion that always roll Instant Death for one of his two gifts.

>> No.20990314

>>20990262
Not even that.
>CULTIST Champions
>Must challenge Trygon Primes

>> No.20990327

>>20990300

Wouldn't Drach'yen be better due to the additonal attacks? Sure you are wonding on 3's (vs T4) with no re-roll but with a potential 13 attacks rolling 3 or 4 would seemingly do more damage.

i haven't mathhammered it out but eh.

>> No.20990358

>>20990255

even if he had 6 attacks (he has more), the Talon would do more wounds against MEQ than he does now when charging (5,19 now, 4,86 then).

>> No.20990360

>>20990264
For 1K, I would say a Warpsmith. He pretty much come fully equiped, just give him a mark and a 4++ for 150 points.

With Tzeentch, he has 5 S5 AP2 attacks (not even charging) and the 2+/3++ to use them, plus Shatter Defense, his Curse, a melta and a flamer.

For added laugh, you can give him the Burning Brand (the second flamer makes him thtat much more annoying in Overwatch) but he start getting real pricey.

>> No.20990366

>>20990310
Or for... the MURDER SWORD

>>20990314
>mfw

>> No.20990372

>>20990327
Yes, it's potentially significantly better. However, realistically on the charge you're in a challenge, so the extra attacks don't help much, so pick for AP value. You reroll to hit and wound with the talon against marines, which is amazing. Plus, no risk of WS1.

>> No.20990374

>>20990327

Drach'nyen is better against 3+ armor as well as terminators, but with Talon you don't risk hurting yourself.

>> No.20990378

>>20990273

4th edition Abaddon= 4+D6 S8 Attacks that re roll rounds and ignore saves

6th edition Abaddon = 5+D6 Attacks S5 Ap2
OR 5 attacks S8 Shred AP3

>> No.20990379

>>20989905
Maybe flamers instead for some assault deterrent? 9 S4 shots at BS3 isn't gonna make a world of difference. Even less, since as an objective camping unit they're probably gonna go to ground when ever shot at. But 3D3 auto hit S4 hits in overwatch should put a dent on anyone charging them (on top of all the autogun shots) not to mention the fun of grilling someone who comes a little too close for comfort.

>> No.20990386

>>20990314
I can already picture the cultist weighting his club and shouting "COME AT ME BRO!"

>> No.20990403

>>20990374

And Talon is better against Bloodthirsters, Trygon Primes and Hive Tyrants that Abaddon also must challenge.

although against infantry you should have sarge do the challenge so Abby can butcher the unit.

>> No.20990419

>>20990297

The power scourge is 25 points though.

I'd just stick with the Heavy Flamer for firing overwatch.
D3 str5 ap4 autohits with re-rolls to wound is nothing to scoff at.

>> No.20990420

Is a Lightning Claw + Power Fist /Chain Fist set up viable on a Terminator Chaos Lord? I mostly like how it looks.

I was going to save the Artefacts for my Chaos Lord on a bike. Probably something like Mark of Nurgle/Khorne, Sigil of Corruption, Bike, Brand or Murder Sword and a Power Axe.

>> No.20990424

>>20990403
>against infantry you should have sarge do the challenge so Abby can butcher the unit.
It also avoid Abby becoming a spawn/prince, which can be... irritating.

>> No.20990440

>>20990424
Just made me realize how Abaddon would pretty much get fucking downgraded by becoming a prince,

>> No.20990447

>>20990420
I'd say so. You can pick and choose which to use based on whether you're fighting TEQs or MEQs and you still get +1 attack. So long as you don't mind losing the ability to shoot.

>> No.20990452

>>20990440

Explains why he keeps denying ascension when the Ruinous Powers offer him it!

>> No.20990453

>>20990420
>Is a Lightning Claw + Power Fist /Chain Fist set up viable on a Terminator Chaos Lord?

I'm not sure why you'd bother with the Fist. A pair of Lightning Claws is a nice choice if you want a solid amount of CC whack without dipping into the Artefacts.

>> No.20990468

>>20990447

eh, he's probably going to either be in a unit of Termiantors or Chosen, or the like, come out of a Land Raider.

>> No.20990470

Rolled 2, 5 = 7

>>20990314
FOR THE GLORY OF CHAOS!

>full wKnorma

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

>> No.20990475

>>20990452
Perhaps he's been fucking up on his crusades on purpose, so he could avoid ascension.

>> No.20990480

What does /tg/ think of combat specialist chosen vs MSU shooty chosen, either with or without abaddon

>> No.20990482

>>20990453

Lightning Claw + Chainfist gives an extra attack while also making sure he can take down Dreanoughts and tanks.

>> No.20990489

Rolled 3, 6 = 9

>>20990470
>+1 strength

FUCK YEAH STR4 CULTIST, COME AT ME HIVE TYRANT!

>> No.20990496

>>20990453

To deal with heavier targets like Terminators or MCs? I just keep doing the numbers on a Terminator Lord and I don't like any of the artefacts on him. They feel more suited to a biker or jump pack Chaos Lord, or a Sorcerer or Warpsmith.

>> No.20990509

>>20990420
Real warlords use (storm) shield, (power) axe and (MURDER) sword.

>> No.20990518

>>20990378

Yes, and 6th edition Abaddon also has +2 attacks on charge, counterattack, and always rerolls to hit and to wound rolls of 1 against Marines, in addition to rerolling all to hit rolls in the first round against marines.

So he's better than before against marines and terminators because of his rerolls, and he is better against guardsmen and eldar because of his additional attacks that wound on 2+ so loss of rerolls does not hurt him, and also because he still has 5 attacks (7 on charge, 6 when charged) even if he rolls 1 on Daemon Weapon test.

6e abaddon in second round of combat against guardsmen = 5+ d6 attacks, on roll of 1 only 5 attacks at WS1, wounds on 2+, 4,40 wounds to guardsmen
4e abaddon in second round of combat against guardsmen 4+d6 attacks, on roll of 1 does nothing, wounds on 2+ with reroll, 4,32 wounds to guardsmen

6e is better, and against Marines better still, and makes the entire army better against them as well..

>> No.20990522

>>20990452
I seem to recall that's actually part of his background. He's seen what the Daemon Primarchs have become (lazy assholes) and wants no part of that while the lapdogs of the False Emperor still draw breath.

>> No.20990540

>>20990509

I didn't know traitors were getting Storm Shields and Thunderhammers! I'll be sure to put those all over my Terminators and Chosen!

wait a minute...........................

>> No.20990550

>>20990496
If he runs into Terminators or a Dreadnought, he'll probably get waxed pretty quickly anyway. If you like it for the look of things, then by all means go for it - it's not going to cripple your list or anything. I just think it's getting a little on the pricy side.

>> No.20990554

Anyone else notice they fucked up the legion symbols for the Emperors Children and the Thousand Sons on page 13 (16 of the media fire link). Typical they get mistreated again

>> No.20990564

>>20990475

I like to think its a tedious balance between looking incompetent while still securing enough victories to not fall out of favor, all while building up his personal power.

Sort of like the new G.I. Joe version of Cobra Commander.

Then again I was okay with classic Cobra Commander. I'd rather have him leading my chaos warband than Bloodgush Murderbane, who regularly decapitates his own followers because BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.

>> No.20990565

>>20990440

Though as a consolation he would become a prince of all four chaos gods according to RAW.

He'd get Furious Charge, Fleet, Rending, Shrouded, SNP and reroll saves of 1.

And faster run he can't use because of SNP.

>> No.20990566

>>20990522
Well, it's like a CHAOS BOON thread.

There's the guy who work hard and long for shitty gift but stay and do the job, and there's the guy that comes, says hello, get promoted to daemonhood immediately and is never seen again.

Which one get shit done?

>>20990540
They get 3++ that doesn't hinder attacks and MURDER SWORD.

>> No.20990572

>>20990522
Not to mention all those delicious 64 rolls!

>> No.20990578

>>20990566

That's not a shield, but modeling a shield onto there to 'counts as' Sigil of Corruption could work. I may do that, even!

>> No.20990586

>>20990360

Sounds like an idea. But I have a lot of Plague marines lying around, so I was thinking about running a cheap Lord with Burning Brand with some Plagues in a Rhino, accompanied by another squad Chaos Marines tooled for close combat in a rhino. They will be supported by either a Maulerfiend/Heldrake or a Forgefiend/Blight Drone.

Also to finish off, a bunch of cultists that will sit and jerk off in a corner somewhere holding a objective.

>> No.20990611

>>20990550

It is, but its also nice and chunky and, I think, fits the Iron Warriors look that I am going for. Also if I'm going for a tournament viable list I probably won't be using my Terminator Chaos Lord or Terminators. Would rather fill in with more Havocs or Oblierators, CSM, cheap Cultist units, and the like. Probably even take Huron.

>> No.20990613

>>20990565
And he would HATE all daemons, except the Undivided ones, because they are cool dudes.

>> No.20990624

>>20990540

We actually do get thunderhammers

>> No.20990639

>>20990624
On the not-dreadnought.

>> No.20990643

>>20990624
Only for the Helbrute, unless I'm mistaken.

>> No.20990652

>>20990643

Still thunderhammers

>> No.20990665

>>20990624
>>20990639
>>20990643
>>20990652

Which doesn't even have an official kit out yet. I suppose you could convert one to fit into that huge fist it has but meh.

>> No.20990717

Are hellbrutes even worth it over Maulers?

Though I suppose they do have a smaller frame

>> No.20990721

>>20990665
>Which doesn't even have an official kit out yet.

It's to facilitate the old metal Chaos Dreadnought model, which came with a Thunder Hammer and a Power Scourge arm. Over the past few editions they've just been lumped into a general "Dreadnought close combat weapon" catagory, so it's nice to see them having their own rules again.

>> No.20990744

>>20990721

That one is atrocious though. I needs an actual, updated plastic kit. I don't wanna buy Forgeworld, not when the models aren't even really worth fielding compared to the other walkers..

>> No.20990750

>>20990721

It'd be even nicer if they didn't cost 25 bloody points on the Defiler...

>> No.20990756

>>20990717

Cheaper?? More variety in load out. Lacks any of the Mauler's fun rules through and still has Frenzy.

>> No.20990767

Forgeworld dreads have chainfists

Helbrutes cannot take chainfists

>> No.20990774

>>20990750
Well, "everything on base contact get debuffed" is pretty huge with a defiler. Namely because the defiler itself is pretty huge.

>> No.20990777

>>20990717
to me, having a dedicated melee unit with no ranged weapons what so ever and then giving it Slow and Purposeful is a terrible idea. Maulers just seem kind of dumb to me. Also they have stupid faces

>> No.20990778

>>20990750

Gotta push those Fiend kits, bro.

You should buy a Helldrake too! Think of all those sweet Vectors you could be doing! Only $5340523508354812412942151 USD/AUS/currency that is not pounds!

>> No.20990785

>>20990665
Try this conversion if you want a decent dreadnought hammer. Librarian Dreadnought force weapon and Dreadknight nemesis hammer.

>> No.20990787

>>20990717
Not the same slot.
And the Mauler is fuckhuge.

>> No.20990795

>>20990774

How does it work with three other power fists?
Four Power Fist attacks or three Power Scourge attacks?

>> No.20990805

>>20990778
No rules on the Heldrake can change the fact that it's 170 points of goatse.

>> No.20990809

>>20990785

Dreadknight would be the best bet. imo Dreadnought arms are a bit too boxy and clean looking for a Hellbrute.

>> No.20990810

I'm feeling that this could be a really fun unit. You would have the Sorcerer take 1 power from Nurgle and then 2 powers from Biomancy. The entire unit rides together, they're all T6 with multiple wounds, so no Instant Death unless you're fighting GK, but they're going to have trouble wounding you in the first place so no biggie

Chaos Sorcerer-60 [170]
Mark of Nurgle-15
2 Additional Mastery Levels-50
Bike-20
Gift of Mutation-10
Power Mace-15
Wields a Force Axe

Chaos Spawn x6 [216]
Mark of Nurgle

>> No.20990815

>>20990744
>I needs an actual, updated plastic kit.

You're going to be waiting a long time, then. GW didn't release a plastic Deffkopta kit, or a Warboss with a Power Klaw, when Assault on Black Reach was out. I very much doubt they'll do Cultists or a Helbrute kit until the next iteration of the Chaos Marine book.

>> No.20990824

>>20990805

And i'm still going waste at least $130 USD to convert it into something not stupid. Its rules aren't even that good but my Iron Warriors demand more daemon engines and war machines.

>> No.20990837

>>20990717

Maulers have smaller footprint and can be deep struck in, SNP does not reduce threat range that is still 6+2d6 and that is hard to avoid in turn 3 when people must advance to midfield in most scenarios.

Mark of Nurgle and Veterans of Long War are pretty much mandatory for mutilators. For 65 points you get what is basically a Deep Striking TDA/Chainfist Lone Wolf for a discount.

>> No.20990841

>>20990815
Well. Fuck you too GW.

>> No.20990843

So.

Forgefiend

Autocannon or Ectoplasma?

Triple plasma or double plasma?

>> No.20990848

>>20990809
Dreadknight arms would probably be too big for a Hellbrute though. And talk about clean-looking.

>> No.20990849

>>20990815

I'm cool with the Hellbrute's default lay out. Its more making two of them not look exactly the same.

Cultists i'm fine with. Tons of trading threads elsewhere to amass the cultists you need. You can also just use Guardsmen for roughly the same purpose...

More than likely i'll suck it up and buy a Forgeworld Chaos Dreadnought for a second 'Hellbrute'.

>> No.20990856

>>20990843
Autocannon and plasma head.

>> No.20990869

>>20990837
>Maulers have smaller footprint and can be deep struck in, SNP does not reduce threat range that is still 6+2d6 and that is hard to avoid in turn 3 when people must advance to midfield in most scenarios.

What

Maulers dont get any of that. But to me Maulers seem to be the better CC walker option than the hellbrute as they're faster and have some more protection with some special rules

>> No.20990877

>>20990843

I like autos better myself, but ymmv.

>>20990837

yeah, this. I suppose you could have a Warpsmith advancing behind it in a Rhino or something, with an auxiliary guard of Cultists to be a meatshield for him.

>> No.20990882

>>20990837
>Maulers have smaller footprint and can be deep struck in

What, where did you take that from?

>> No.20990885

>>20990843
Autocannons and plasma

WHY CANT I HOLD ALL THESE S8

>> No.20990890

I think a Hellbrute would be worth taking over a group of Maulers, simply because that whole "slow and purposeful" makes it a lot more difficult for them to get into CC than the Hellbrute.

>> No.20990893

>>20990777
disregard that, I keep getting Maulers and Mutilators mixed up

>> No.20990895

>>20990869

Called mutilators maulers accidentally, swap that and the post still stands.

Maulerfiends are indeed the better CC walkers of the two available.

>> No.20990903

Thoughts on my list? It's supposed to be fluffy (renegade Salamanders) but I would like to win once in a while

Warpsmith w/ Gift of Mutation (GoM)
Lord with Mark of Slaanesh (MoS), Power Weapon and the Burning brand

Troops
10 Noise marines, 9 sonic blasers, champ with combi-bolter

10 CSMs, 2 flamers

10 CSMs, 2 flamers, champ with combi-bolter

10 Possessed with Mark of Khorne, champ with GoM
-Riding in a Land raider with Dirge Caster and Gargoyles

7 Havoks with 4 Flakk Missile Launchers


Question: is the land raider going to be shot to hell on turn 1? I'm kinda expecting people to not be prepared for a heavy vehicle in 6th ed, and at least buy the possessed enough time to get where they need to be and fuck shit up.

>> No.20990915

STOP FUCKING CALLING MUTILATORS MAULERS YOU GODDAMN DOUBLE LOYALISTS JESUS FUCK

>> No.20990916

>>20990895
Damn it now you had got me doing it.

>> No.20990921

>>20990903

Sorry forgot to mention comes out to 1499 points

>> No.20990923

>>20990848
It's fucking perfect. Imagine the scene:

The half-daemon abomination against the fierce paladin in Dreadknight suit. Suddenly, the paladin's blade sever off the arm of the foul machine, but the opponent retaliate with a direct punch that pulp the poor terminator, leaving the suit inanimate. The Helbrute tears off an arm and place it on its cut-open shoulder, blessed adamantium and warped flesh merging into something even more grotesque.

>> No.20990928

>>20990903
This list will only be effective if you greenstuff penis tentacles onto the warpsmiths tendrils.

>> No.20990937

>>20990928

I was thinking trying to make two tenticales playing a Gibson Les Paul

>> No.20990938

>>20990915
>YOU GODDAMN DOUBLE LOYALISTS
Best insult I've seen in a while.

>> No.20990958

>>20990903
How do you deal with AV13+? I see 1 meltagun and a Land Raider, neither of which will stop high AV. I'd like to give suggestions but it'd be unsubstantiated as I haven't playtested them yet.

>> No.20990960

Are Hell Blades and Hell Talons worth it for air support?

>> No.20990961

>>20990915
They're the worst kind of loyalists!

>> No.20990992

>>20990297
how are havoc Launchers useless if i want to fire ma battle cannon? can't see why ... enlight me plz

>> No.20991024

>>20990960

They're worse than a Baleflamer Heldrake as ground attack craft, and worse than Hades Heldrake as anti-air.

But if your local scene is cool with that and you like them, go for it.

>> No.20991030

So, who's gonna call his Chaos Lord Garland and have a golden DP ready for a Dark Apotheosis?

>> No.20991036

>>20990992
Ordnance weapons means all other guns can only snap fire and blasts and templates can't snap fire.

>> No.20991099

>>20991036
is this a in an errata or where can i find this? the rulebook states under Ordnance Weapons:
"When shooting, a model with an Ordnance weapon fires the
number of times indicated in its profile after its type. A nonvehicle
model carrying an Ordnance weapon cannot fire it in
the Shooting phase if he moved in the preceding Movement
phase and cannot fire it as Snap Shots. Furthermore, if a nonvehicle
model fires an Ordnance weapon, then the massive
recoil frorn the Ordnance weapon means that the model cannot
fire other weapons that phase, nor will it be able to charge in the
ensuing Assault phase."

>> No.20991105

My problem with Chaos list-making is that I feel bad by picking, say, a nurgle lord then adding a squad of thousand sons, or noise marines... or anything else, I mean, I get OCD-like about not mixing up the Gods in my CSM armies... do other people have that problem? How do you deal with that?

I'd like a Nurgle biker Lord but I don't want to build my army around plague marines, on the other hand not fielding a couple squads would feel so fucking artificial.

Feels bad, man.

>> No.20991122

>>20991105
Plenty of chaos armies use multiple gods, like Word Bearers and Black Legion

>> No.20991123

>>20991099
Not that guy but it's in the rulebook somewhere. Maybe the vehicle section. I don't remember where, but it's certainly there.

>> No.20991126

>>20990958

Hmm I used to have a pair of maulerfiends in there but I can't in good faith use those models so I swapped them for the LR.

What are good anti-tank units in this codex? Bikers with meltaguns? Raptors with meltaguns? Maulerfiends? Obliterators?

>> No.20991132

>>20991122
Indeed, but I have trouble seeing some Noise faggots or Rubrics following a Nurgle/Khorne Lord around.

>> No.20991134

>>20991099
For some inexplicable reason the part about snap firing is nowhere near the Ordnance rules. It's somewhere in the vehicle shooting section.

>> No.20991137

>>20991105
Play Undivided (lots of marks). And yeah, I have the same problem.

>> No.20991139

>>20991099

In the vehicles section of the rulebook buddy

>> No.20991140

>>20991099
Vehicles section under Vehicles firing Ordnance Weapons or something similar. It's a small paragraph in one corner, easy to miss.

>> No.20991151

>>20991099
Bottom of page 71 (mini rule book) - Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons:

"Unlike other units, vehicles can move and fire with Ordnance Weapons. However, a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn."

>> No.20991152

>>20991126

anything with meltaguns, obliterators, mutilators, maulerfiends.

>> No.20991157

Hmm, been brainstorming a bit for a 1k list incorporating some of the stuff I have.

HQ:

Chaos Lord, MoN, Burning Brand = 110pts

Troops:

7 Plague Marines, 2xPlasma = 198pts + Rhino 35pts

10 Chaos Marines, 2xMelta, CCW, MoK = 200pts + Rhino 35pts

Fast attack:

Heldrake, Baleflamer = 170pts

Heavy Support:

Maulerfiend = 125pts

Not sure what to add next.

>> No.20991164

>>20991099

Page 71

>> No.20991167

Here, you godless sodomites.

>> No.20991171

HEHEHEHEHEH
OH YOU HAVE RAZORBACKS? WELL WE HAVE THESE!

Sorceror 60
Brand of Skalathrax 30


10 Marines 140
2 MeltaGun 20
Rhino (combi bolter)35
combi bolter 5
combi plasma 10
havoc launcher 12
222

x6 = 1332

Forgefiend 175
Forgefiend 175
Forgefiend 175

1947pts, blow the rest on gifts of mutation or whatever

>> No.20991179

>>20991157
>flyer on 1k or less

Get ready, you'll be getting some flak, if you know what I mean.

>> No.20991189

>>20991137

's why I am playing Iron Warriors.

I also don't care about making a purist fluff army. As long as it mostly fits (daemon engines, warmachines, vehicles, heavy weapons) the rest is inconsequential. at least to Undivided players.

Deeply considered World Eaters for awhile. dat paint scheme.

>> No.20991191

>>20991123
>>20991134
>>20991139
>>20991139
ahh thanks to all of you ... now i am disapointed : ( was so lucky about defiller with 2 havoc launchers .... such a sad story

>> No.20991217

>>20991189
>>20991137
Feel guy here. Yeah, I like playing Black Legion precisely because of that but my assburgers still flare up sometimes. Well, I'll just deal with it.

>> No.20991221

HELLDRAKES

Baleflamer or Auto? Can it take Gargoyles?

Only one seems like too few, but it is fighting for a spot among Bikers, Warp Talons and Raptors. I'd really like to take 1-2 and a unit of Warp Talons some time for the air superiority element of my Iron Warriors.

>> No.20991225

>>20991191
How do you think I feel when my plasma sponson Leman Russ and Demolisher with hull flamer can't fire their shit either, while all the other Russ variants can.

>> No.20991229

>>20991171
Fiends. Fiends everywhere.

>> No.20991232

>>20991217

Black Legion is the way to go if you want to use everything while still being fluffy. Cult troops are just allies on your glorious crusade against the rotting Imperium.

>> No.20991249

>>20990915
they are referring to the MAULER fiend dipshit
>do you even soulforge?

>> No.20991254

>>20991232
...or Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Night Lords...

>> No.20991256

>>20991229

I can't wait for them.

Going to be a bitch to magnetize but totally worth it.

>> No.20991257

>>20991221

Can't take gargoyles but baleflamer has soul blaze anyway and hades is anti-vehicle so it does not need it.

As for equipment, baleflamer if you expect to face infantry, flyer and vehicle spam means hades.

>> No.20991259

>>20991249

See

>>20990893
>>20990895

Fuckwit.

>> No.20991265

Cultist black legionnaires paint their armor black and leave a shoulder pad at their old colors.

They are the deathwatch.

>> No.20991267

>>20991254

Word Bearers would be my second choice. Black Legion lets you take Abaddon without a guilty conscience tho'.

Iron Warriors are like a distant third. I might convert up a 'counts as' Huron and Abaddon but I dunno how to feel about using any other characters.

>> No.20991271

At first I was like "damn, these sick looking warp talons look awful." Then I considered more than that they're 30 points each, base. considering the gear they have. That gives them:

+ 2 claws (30 for any other unit)
+ daemon rule [fear and 5++] (dark glory is 15, fear for nurgle is ~10 icon, but talons cant take icons)
+ jump pack (15 for people with access to siw)
(+) useless awful warpflame strike

So basically for 30 points you're getting EASILY double returns (60, being conservative), just based on WARGEAR. we can toss in another 13 points to match the base stat lines for vanilla csm, but that would be over-kind, as talons lack nades and bolters.

Marks/vets are expensive on talons, which counts against the cheapness of the wargear they get, but khorne isn't madly overpriced considering you're dealing with units that have double tclaws and are mobile, so +2 attacks on the charge (a charge you'll probably carry with ease) is worthy of 4 cost.

Last, and best part imo becuase every unit i have is rolling on the boon table, the talon can roll TWICE (for double price, admittedly).


Personally I'll be using raptor bits to make my vanilla csm more in line with the chosen, I absolutely love this new flesh-fused look on the chosen, really makes the csm pop out from vanilla marines, something that has always made me wonder why anyone even plays chaos... they looked awful. Now? All my rabid fanboism!

also: running melee themed csm with a sorcerer as allies for necron, opinions?

>> No.20991288

>>20991257

It depends. The two LGS I frequent most have a mix, though its primarily Guard, Space Marines (Wolves Angels Grey Knights), and Tyranids. So that's probably a big Yes on flyers. Vendettas and Storm (Insert) everywhere!

>> No.20991289

>>20991271

I'd be giving them Slaanesh. I5, dual claw guys can mess up a hell of a lot of marines...

>> No.20991295

>>20991271
Beware, though. Warp talons can't into grenades (because talons, i guess). Don't charge into cover.

>> No.20991304

>>20991271
The only weakness Warp Talons have is that they completely lack anti tank, and cant take icons

>> No.20991305

oh shit

guise, one of my LGS has two boxes of finecast classic Raptors. Should I grab them before they disappear? I prefer the old ones over the new ones (as Raptors,t hough I'd gladly convert the new ones into a jump pack Lord or for Heresy era traitors..)

>> No.20991307

>>20991249

NO SHIT? NOTHING GETS BY YOU DOES IT, I SEE WERE DEALING WITH THE INQUISITIONS FINEST HERE, GIVE THIS MAN A FUCKING MEDAL. THE IMPERIUM CAN SLEEP SOUNDLY, KNOWING IT HAS SUCH VIGILANT WATCHMEN AS YOU GUARDING IT.

>> No.20991313

Does a DP with the Black Mace hit at AP 2 still due to his Smash USR? The wording of smash makes me think so.

>> No.20991315

>>20991105
Chaos has always been pretty varied. As I remember, ever since RT/2e Chaos was always a very mixed bunch. The distinction came much more set in 3e-4e.

While I have a mono-Slaanesh daemon legion in WHFB with only the DP not marked Slaanesh (because it costs 35pts. and does nothing), my 40k Chaos army, while also Slaanesh heavy, is built around the idea that anyone is welcome. Then again, since I use Codex: SM, I don't have marks, so I just have the odd non-Slaaneshi model in the mix. Like a Nurgle Terminator or a Khorne Marine among the units. Mostly they just have different iconography, as they're not as old and mutated yet.

>> No.20991316

>>20991305

Grab 'em

The old raptors are superior

>> No.20991321

>>20991305
If you want to go classic, you go by the reasoning that chaos doesn't have the facilities to maintain antigrav technology. Stop using raptors at all.

>> No.20991328

>>20991313
Yes.

>>20991307
NO, IT'S DARK APOSTLE GRAHAM HARRNAZI, NOBODY EXPECT THE CHAOTIC INQUISITION.

>> No.20991333

I don't actually play 40k tabletop, but reading through the fluff it says that Obliterators aren't actually made via the Obliterator virus.
What's up with that?

>> No.20991344

>>20991315
>C:SM

>> No.20991345

>>20991321
Jump packs != antigrav...

>> No.20991361

>>20991289
maybe it's just me, but most targets you'd dispatch talons against would be either a) lower init, or b) expensive enough to trade blows with success. That, and the whole idea of less hits in exchange for going first (sometimes) seems a poor one for me: high init is good for units that will kill you first, but how many 5+ init units will talons have to avoid that can kill them before they strike?

I'm a fan of gun lines, so talons will really be jumping around looking for anti-tank/heavies units (exactly the role I expect of raptors) and the occasional easy-pickings (those small 5-10 man squads on points). While the gunline takes out termies and hordes.

>> No.20991364

>>20991333

>Some members of the Inquisition believe they are the by-product of a heretical Dark Mechanicum quest to embody the Omnissiah, whilst others proffer the notion that Obliterators are infected with some kind of Daemon-created "technovirus". Opponents of the latter theory say that a technovirus could not exist in the way it is claimed, and that simple daemonic possession gives Obliterators their frighteningly powerful abilities.

>Only the truly learned realize that the term technovirus is just a misnomer; it is Chaos itself that mutates and corrupts the machine, just as it moulds and changes the flesh of men.

>> No.20991374

>>20991304
Haven't you heard, Daddy-o? Ground vehicles are so last year.

At least around here their use has dropped dramatically. Also, most vehicles still have AV10 on the rear, so they can claw at it with S4.

>> No.20991375

>>20991361
I5 isn't for killing I5, it's for killing I4. You know, like marines. The guys you HATE and the reason you have power claws.

>> No.20991387

>>20991305
YES

>> No.20991389

>>20991344
What?

>> No.20991395

>>20991361
and furthermore, that plays to their strengths, the 5+ invuln protects them from the one salvo of heavy weapons they might face, I am now reconsidering slanny marks though, just have a hard time i guess, I want most of my fights to be decided, for good or bad, after the first round of combat.

>> No.20991402

where is everyone getting these cultist models from? Do they just keep using the Dark Vengeance ones? That would get old fast

>> No.20991414

Iron Warriors related question;

Is this the official paint scheme now? Usually they have gold trim on everything not just the pauldrons. I can't tell if this is convenient half-assing or what. I'll probably end up going with this for my CSM anyway (at 40+ I'm not looking forward to painting) but I just want to clarify.

Lords and chosen and such will get full gold trim and etc. to make them more distinguished.

>> No.20991422

>>20991414
Fuck knows whats official, just paint them how you think is good. Mine have gold trim all over.

>> No.20991426

>>20991389
Using C:SM for CSM is non-heresy, go away.

>> No.20991433

>>20991402

Yes and yes. They aren't bad and provide you all the options you could want for them, so I don't see what the issue is. Can always use Guardsmen if that doesn't suit your tastes.

>> No.20991442

>>20991345
I do remember some place saying they contain anti-grav tech as well to easy the load on the engines. Fuck, IG can have entire regiments equipped with grav-chutes to enable save aerial drops, so why couldn't Marines have this tech?

Ships and flyers also have anti-grav tech. It's not aerodynamics that keeps Imperial fighters in the air.

>> No.20991444

>>20991375
I follow you as far as not using I5 for I5, I'm saying regular marines don't come in big packages, and usually aren't melee savvy. I'd trade 2 casualties for 6 against vanilla marines, versus the 1 for 3 I'd get with slann. Slanny is certainly excellent for taking out that sergeant though, no doubt, 3 light claw I5 attacks with veteran means you'll land 2 wounds easily on that power weapon/power fist loyalist and carry the day... gah, you might have just sold me!

>> No.20991476

Apparently unlike Obliterators, the Mutilators in fluff don't absorb more weapons besides the one they started with.

Instead every weapon that kills has a warp reflection, a "war-spirit" that becomes stronger the more lives it takes. Mutilators commune with and absorb these war-spirits, assimilating their warp energy into their own body and soyl so that they can manifest corrupt versions at will.

>> No.20991503

>>20991426
GW has themselves used C:SM for newly fallen CSM. Fuck, in WD303 they had a whole article with battle report about the subject. Even used the Red Corsairs as an example of a newly fallen chapter without daemonic mutations and post-Heresy gear.

Then 4e codex rolls in and suddenly Red Corsairs find themselves knee deep in Heresy era stuff while all their newer stuff has disappeared.

>> No.20991549

>>20991503

Blood wolves is another good example of GW doing this.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16800105a

>> No.20991577

>>20991549

He should add Berserkers riding Juggernauts using the Thunderwolf Cavalry rules

>> No.20991579

>>20991444
Really, the combination of Hatred and Lightning Claws do wonders on MEQ. That's why I5 is good, Warp Talon are tailored made to fuck over SM.

Khorne is overkill (or for charging into stuff that you shouldn't charge, like cover, orks or necron elite). Tzeentch is crap because saturation and overcosted. Nurgle is silly good as always. So Slaanesh is mainly for doing their thing REAL good instead of just good and the others are for broadening their use.

Also, you don't decide wether you kill the sergeant or not. Auto-challenge means the guy will choose between having his sergeant butchered by yours or getting raped.

>> No.20991583

>>20991315
Fuck you, you are a horrible person and you should feel bad

>> No.20991611

>>20991503

Red corsairs also attack the Sister of Battle in their WD codex over 100 years before Badab War.

And Huron has Veteran of the Long War rule too.

My personal theory is that when Astral Claws entered the Maelstrom, they travelled 10,000 years into the past and that's how he collected a Legion-sized force in seemingly less than 100 years.

>> No.20991639

>>20991579

But how are Warp Talons supposed to survive the first turn? If their opponents pass their blind test, they Warp Talons will be sitting ducks, ready to get shot to pieces. I know Mark of Slaanesh makes them great Marine-killers, but without Mark of Nurgle, how frequently will they actually make it into combat?

>> No.20991664

>>20991583
Well thank you, that's sweet of you.

Mind telling me who put sand in your vagina?

>> No.20991672

>>20991639
>implying anyone will be stupid enough to deep strike them

>> No.20991678

>>20991611
>Red corsairs also attack the Sister of Battle in their WD codex over 100 years before Badab War.

That's nothing special. Sisters attacked the SW because of reasons.

>> No.20991692

>>20991664

>> No.20991699

>>20991678

But did they do that before the Age of Apostasy?

>> No.20991719

>>20991639
>Deep-striking CC units
No. Don't. Use cover and small squads. You don't need hordes of the fuckers when 5 of them can butcher a whole squad of MEQ on the charge.

>> No.20991732

I have a terrible time thinking about which HQ unit to take. I want a Tzeentchian sorcerer but it's hard to leave him reasonably-priced while well-blinged. And I'm not sure where to put him - either his squad lacks a clear function or is bloated point-wise.

>> No.20991736

>>20991672

Yeah, I guess they'd be pretty good on foot, since they still have Jump Packs.

The Warpflame strike is probably only worth it against Necrons.

>> No.20991751

>>20991736

It can blind a big Ork mob too.

>> No.20991755

>>20991699
It's a pretty recent thing. The Ecclesiarchy launched a whole crusade against the SW because of their pagan rituals and lack of pious modesty.

Imperium is constantly fighting itself as it's less a one unit and more of a collection of groups, factions and orders that more of then than not take great issue with one another.

>> No.20991764

>>20991732

Get that Ahriman

Put him with some thousand sons

Shit out 4 psychic shooting attacks every round

>> No.20991785

>>20991755

Yeah, but the Red Corsairs did not exist when they attacked the Sisters of Battle. That's why time travel shenanigans. Or Ward and Cruddace both being ignorant of fluff that's been around since RT and repeated in every edition's chaos books.

>> No.20991792

>>20991764
I have 3 fluffy TS squads with a rhino each, plus two laspreds and a havoc squad (for antiair).

It feels odd to put him with one of those squads while the others are left out. A special unit for ahriman/sorc would feel better.

I'm fucking retarded when it comes to symmetry and even distribution.

>> No.20991795

>>20991692
So I shouldn't use Codex: Space Marines because it's a Ward codex? Doesn't that mean I can't use any Marine codex, other than BT and DA?

>> No.20991808

What's the best weapon option for a Nurgle bikelord with a squad of bikers? RAPEMACE or MURDER SWORD?
And how should I kit out the squad for maximum rape?
At least power fist on the champ, but dont know about their ranged weapons. Plasma or melta? I'll want to assault with them, but with melta I can kill tanks too if needed, and they are not completely useless against MEQ/TEQ either, but it seems like I'm giving them too many roles then. Plasma is always good, but expensive as they'll be in close combat quite often, flamers are cheap and good if I'm up against a horde.
Thoughts?

>> No.20991809

>>20991795

Yes.

That's exactly what it means

>> No.20991818

>>20991699

It happened about five thousand years after that, I think.

>> No.20991825 [SPOILER] 

>>20991795

No.

>> No.20991829

>>20991795
For CSM you use C:CSM. No substitutes.

>> No.20991834

>>20991795
And Space Wolves, that was a Kelly dex.

Also Mat Ward is doing Dark Angels
Which is badass, but I would have preferred Ward on CSM and Kelly on DA

>> No.20991845

>>20991834
He's doing DA? Awesome.

>> No.20991857

Glory to the Dark Gods!

>> No.20991872

>>20991785
Ah, now I see what you were on about. Fuck, I can't brain today for shit.

Where is this piece of fluff?

>> No.20991897

>>20991872

SoB White Dwarf.

>> No.20991911

>>20991829
Well fuck you too.

>Using Renegade Space Marines in Warhammer 40,000
>"There are several ways in which you can field an army representative of a renegade Space Marine force, depending on your own tastes and the background of your army. If your Space Marines have only recently turned, then it is perfectly appropriate to use Codex: Space Marines"
-WD303

>> No.20991921

>>20991897
So, Red Corsairs have also gone back in time, it seems.

>> No.20991927

>>20991911

>GW
>Knowing shit about shit

No one knows less about 40k than GW

>> No.20991947

>>20991897

The Sisters are not so successful against Mortarion.

Maybe those Grey Knights had a point...

>> No.20991949

>>20991927
0/10

>> No.20991956

>>20991947

Involving Primarchs is not playing fair you know

>> No.20991969

>>20991956

The Grey Knights might have something to say about that.

>> No.20991970

>>20991911
Loyalist scum!

>> No.20991980

>>20991911
This is what I do; no one has ever complained when I used Codex Marines for a Renegade chapter. Hell, it helps justify my constant fighting with a Loyalist chapter and Dark Eldar allies.

>> No.20991982

>>20991969

Draigo does not exist

>> No.20992001

>no chaos apostle on a bike or jump back

...ok

>> No.20992021

Ahriman - 230

9x Rubric Marines + Rhino - 277
9x Rubric Marines + Rhino - 277
9x Rubric Marines + Rhino - 277

LasPred - 140
LasPred - 140
5x Havocs w/ 4x ML's and 4x Flakks + Rhino - 175

484 points to spend. Don't want to take flyers, want to give Ahriman a speshul unit. Wat do?

>> No.20992035

>>20992001
Think of the consequences, man! What if he drops his big fancy Chaos Bible while zooming around on his bike? Shit would just be ruined, and those things aren't cheap.
>>20992021
Terminators?

>> No.20992054

>>20991970
>Chaos
>Having standards

>> No.20992069

>>20992021
Terminators make a decent bodyguard, but you can't slap him in a Rhino that way.

Honestly, Ahriman doesn't fit with most of the traditional bodyguard units because he usually wants to be using his Witchfire powers, not punching it out in CC. I'd say just put him with a Tsons unit.

>> No.20992071

>>20992054
Indeed, that's why they have icons and totem poles. Standards are gay.

>> No.20992083

>>20992021

3 obliterators of Tzeentch.

2+/4++ W2 guys to do Look Out Sir rolls, shoot hard and walk, and Ahridude even makes them fearless.

>> No.20992095

>>20992083
Problem is, all the HS slots are already full.

>> No.20992097

>>20992083

This

Don't know why I didn't think of Obliterators

It fits perfectly

>> No.20992116

>>20992035
>>20992069

How about

9x Rubric Marines + Rhino - 277
9x Rubric Marines + Rhino - 277
9x Rubric Marines + Rhino - 277
8x Rubric Marines + Rhino - 254 - AHRIMAN GOES HERE

LasPred - 140
LasPred - 140
5x Havocs w/ 4x ML's and 4x Flakks + Rhino - 175

230 points left. Or is it better to put him in one of those 3 squads and use those points somewhere else?

>>20992083
>>20992097
I could do that but I'd be throwing away one of my favorite units (havoc/preds). I could ditch a pred but I don't like lonely tanks.

>> No.20992118

>>20992095
looks to be a 2000 point list

>> No.20992120

>>20992095
Unmarked spawns. They are cheap, give T5 and are a deterrent against poor CC. Plus, you can always have Ahri leave and the spawn zoom accross the table to nom some dudes.

>> No.20992134

>>20992116
>I could do that but I'd be throwing away one of my favorite units (havoc/preds). I could ditch a pred but I don't like lonely tanks.
Or, you could use your second FoC (since you're at 2k) and add a squad of obliterators

>> No.20992139

>>20992120

You really don't want Ahriman in CC

>> No.20992146

>>20992116

Is this supposed to be a 2000 point list?

Because you could always just do 2 FoC charts and get a more slots

>> No.20992148

>>20992134
But wouldn't that mean 2nd HQ and a 4th Troop?

>> No.20992154

>>20991921

Back, forth, sideways, anyfing possible doc.

>> No.20992157

Alright, check this out

Ahriman - 230

9x Rubric Marines + Rhino - 277
9x Rubric Marines + Rhino - 277
9x Rubric Marines + Rhino - 277

LasPred - 140
3x Obliterators w/ MoT, VotLW - 243
5x Havocs w/ 4x ML's and 4x Flakks + Rhino - 175

381 points left.
>sometimes urgoth
Yeah, I guess so.

>> No.20992162

>>20992148

With 4 squads of 1000ksons you still have more than 200 points

More than enough room for a second HQ

>> No.20992164

>>20992148
A cheap sorc + some cultists, maybe? I mean you're not spending too much on obliterators... 250ish is only about half of what you have extra

>> No.20992171

>>20992139
That's why he leaves the squad before the charge. And that's why spawns, they tell everyone not truly able to CC to fuck off somewhere else.

>> No.20992197

>>20992116

You could give him a big terminator deathstar for those 484 points:

10x terminators of Tzeentch with Veterans of the Long War, 2x reaper autocannons, 2x Lightning Claw guys, 3x powerfist guys, 3x combi-melta or combi-plasma guys - 484 points exactly.

In 2 out of 3 games you can also infiltrate both this and Ahriman.

>> No.20992204

>>20992197
I say terminators. You can never go wrong with more terminators.

>> No.20992219

>>20992083
>>20992097

>>20992197
>>20992204

You fellas give me these cool ideas and now I can't make up my mind! I keep changing plans, like a true servant of Tzeentch.

>> No.20992222

>>20992197
2 out of 3 games?

Independent Characters with the Infiltrate rule confer it to the squad they join during deployment. So Ahriman will always be able to give it to himself, and thus give it to the termies.

>> No.20992225

>>20992197
>>20992204


But keeping termies out of CC is such a shame, and Ahriman is best when you can spam dem witchfire powers

If not putting him with Oblitirators which I really think is the optimal path, then I'd just put him with some thousand sons, or, dare I say it, some Noise Marines

>> No.20992238

>>20992222
He has the Master of Deception trait.

>> No.20992244

>>20992021
model some pheonix guard termies or spireguard cultists

>> No.20992246

>>20992225
A unit of 10 Terminators should blast through anything they charge in one turn, and before that they have to walk across the board, blasting all the way.

Consider the fact that if you put him with Obliterators, they will die FAST because people will direct tons of fire to them, and they chew up an HS slot. With the Terminator route, you can still have 3 HS slots filled while Ahriman and his termie bros soak fire.

>> No.20992253

>>20992238

Exactly

He gives himself infiltrate

He then deploys with the termies thus giving them infiltrate too

Done

>> No.20992260

>>20992238
Uh...yeah I know.

And i'm saying he and his terminators will be able to Infiltrate every game, forever, because he can just give Infiltrate to himself, which then grants it to any unit he joins during deployment.

>> No.20992262

>>20992246

>and they chew up an HS slot.

But it's still a 2000 point list

HS slots are not an issue

>> No.20992268

Does anyone have link to a 6th ed. pdf 40k rulebook?

>> No.20992271

>>20992225
Sure, sure, but sooner or later something's gonna get into contact with them, and which one do you want around you then, 3 Obliterators or 10 burly terminators who actually have CC weapons to fuck shit up? Also, the sarge to take any challenge for Ahriman.

>> No.20992282

What would be the best load out for a deep striking unit of terminators and lord?

>> No.20992299

>>20992282
Guns

>> No.20992306

>>20992262
Still needs that 2nd HQ, 4th Troop choice, which will eat up points he could be using to pimp up those Terminators.

>> No.20992327

>>20992306

But if he took the Obliterators then he wouldn't take the termies so there would be no termies to pimp. In that case the remaining points would be used for a second HQ and a fourth troop choice

>> No.20992333

Trying to kit out those termies for Ahrimang... which is a big problem. I'm not sure about mixing up cc termies and shooty termies. It feels like I'm wasting termies which could be CC'ing when shooting and wasting termies which could be doing something useful while they sit out and their bros fire those meltas or autocannons.

>> No.20992337

Is 4 terminators with lightning claws using cultists as a meat shield a good retinue for a dark apostle in smaller games?

>> No.20992354

>>20992337
Just make sure you don't run into other terminators

>> No.20992371

>>20992354

that's where the 35 cultists and two squads of 10 tacitcals with 2 plasma guns each come in

thx

>> No.20992395

>>20990805

>> No.20992424

>>20990805

You say that like its a bad thing clearly you need to spend more time venerating Slaanesh.

>> No.20992433

>>20992333

Here goes.

10x terminators of Tzeentch, 2x Reaper Autocannons, 7 combi-somethings for the guys without autocannons and 1 more for the sarge, gift of mutation for sarge, 2 powerfists for the Reaper guys. 484 points, no points used on CC upgrades beyond the fists needed to deal with walkers and MC's and gift to aid sarge in challenges.

>> No.20992491

>>20992433
My excel thingy is giving me 446 points. The hell?

>> No.20992526

>>20992491
Probably hasn't been updated with all the new stuff yet?

>> No.20992529

>>20992491

I counted the powerfists wrong but it still should be 478 points.

35 for 7 combi-weapons. 312 for termies. 50 point for two reapers. 50 points for Mark. 17 points for combi-weapon and boon for sarge, 14 points for fists.

>> No.20992555

>>20992526
>>20992529
I updated it myself and noticed I fucked up when handling the point for termie wargear. Fixing it right now.

>> No.20992576

>>20992555

Could you be arsed to upload your spreadsheet?

I never was any good at making them, and my ADD acts up when I try

>> No.20992594

So my LGS is doing an escalation tourney, starting at 500 points, with only 1 troops choice mandatory:

Abbadon the Despoiler: 265
5 Chosen, 4 Power Weapons, Meltagun, MoN, Vets: 185
Chaos Rhino, Combi-Bolter, Combi-Plasma: 50

500

How bad of a person am I?

>> No.20992612

>>20992594

You can't put Abaddon in rhino. You'll have to footslog him or teleport him in.

You only have six dudes. A couple failed saves, or a couple lascannon shots, and there goes half your army.

>> No.20992624

>>20992612
There's this little thing called a Vindicator.

You can start running now.

>> No.20992626

>>20992576
Will do that when I finish fixing things up... I made a thread yesterday and linked the previous "csm general" to it. Got zero downloads.

>> No.20992634

>>20992594
Remember that Abby has to footslog or derpstrike.


This might be pretty mean too:

Typhus
27x Plague Zombies
2x Obliterators with Mark of Nurgle.

>> No.20992635

>>20992624

That too.

>> No.20992645

>>20992594

>Bringing Abbadabadoo in a low point game

No.

Just... Just no.

>> No.20992687

>>20992645
It's not like anybody's taking this shit seriously until at least 1500.
>>20992634
I'll consider that, actually.

>> No.20992694

>>20992576

Here, CSM 6E spreadsheet:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ym53dz3tkn9md3a

Please report any inaccuracies.

>> No.20992708

>>20992694

Thanks buddy

>> No.20992724

>>20992687

A variant of Nurgle theme:

Biker Sorcerer of Nurgle with Sigil, Mastery Level 3, meltabombs

5x CSM with Veterans and Mark of Nurgle

3x1 Obliterators with Mark of Nurgle

>> No.20992727

>>20992694
>MFW 28 DL'S already, and counting

>> No.20992772

>>20992727
Eh, apparently that was for V1 and it coincidentally updated as I refreshed the page. I guess it updates once a day or something.

>> No.20992804

>>20992694
>using proprietary software

>> No.20992825

>>20992804
Do me a favor and deal with it.

>> No.20992862

>>20992804
>hurf durf what is open office

>> No.20992973

>>20992268
Pretty please...

>> No.20992980

What is a good load-out for a warpsmith? I was thinking MoK/ invuln. 7 str6 attacks on the charge is nothing to laugh at. But Ws4 kinda throws me off.

How about MoN/ bike for unkillabledickery? Pic related, I'd love to have an hq rolling on it.

>> No.20993014

>>20992973

Here you lazy nigger

http://www.mediafire.com/?g5ibs4cqjr4r2kx

>> No.20993037

>>20992973
>>> /rs/
> google.com
You're welcome.

>> No.20993050

>>20992980

Can't take a bike, Mark of Nurgle and Aura or Mark of Tzeentch and Aura is as tough as he gets.

Anyway, he's got more than enough attacks to do against most units and against space marines you get first round rerolls for 5 points.

>> No.20993056

I have one of these terminator lords (pic related) and he has a power sword, and a combi-melta or lightning claw. What should I outfit him with? The power sword alternative is a ranged daemon weapon, don't think I can use it really.

>> No.20993072

>>20993014
Thank you dear faggot

>> No.20993083

>>20993056
Give him a power fist or a power axe.

Or one of these new artefact weapons.

>> No.20993093

Hot damn, just grabbed me:

24 Rubric Marines
3 Aspiring Sorcerers
4 Obliterators
4 Thousand sons Terminators (3x Lightning claws, 1x Autocannon+PF) *
1 Rhino
1 Vindicator

All unpainted for 150 bucks

Did I do good?

Pic related, it's the termies

>> No.20993094

>>20993056
Call it a Murder Sword. Commence murder.

>> No.20993117

>>20993093
Yes, yes you did.

>> No.20993149

Guys I'm fighting my GK friend this saturday for the first time with this new codex. I used to get my ass handed to me all the damn time and then switched to necrons and I started getting good at the game. Now that i'm giving my TS another shot though, my old fears are coming back and i've turned into a snivelling worried child. Rate my list please:

HQ: Sorc, +2 mastery, terminator, MoT, Sigil, Spell familiar, Dimensional key, Brand of skalathrax, scrolls of magnus, gift = 300
HQ: Dark Apostle, veteran, MURDER SWORD, MoT, Ichor blood, combat familiar, gift = 185

Troops: 8+1 rubrics/sorc, gift = 252
Troops: 8+1 rubrics/sorc, gift = 252
Troops: 19+1 Cultists/champ, MoT = 110

Elite: 4+1 Termies/champ, 2 chainfists, 3 combi-weapons, 1 R.AC, MoT, vets, gift = 271

Heavy Support: Land Raider, Havoc launcher, combi-weapon, dirge caster, warpflame gargoyles, extra armour = 272
Heavy Suppost: 3x Obliterators, MoT = 234
Heavy Support: Maulerfiend = 125

Total: 2001

I know he fields a squad of purifiers, squad of termies, squad of paladins with attached grandmaster, a dreadknight, psyfleman dread and sometimes an inquisitor with servitors and a stormraven. What do?

>> No.20993159

>>20993083
Wanna just use the three weapons he comes with. Murder sword + lightning claw for a choppy lord viable? (I'm currently learning how to play, forgive me if that's a silly idea.)

>> No.20993178

>>20993159
I think murder sword + combi-melta would be a better idea.

>> No.20993183

>>20993050
Damn. Aura as in aura of dark majesty? Ok, thats a 5+, but is the toughness or up'd invul better? Or MoK for extra attacks? Fuck I hate nitpicking!

>> No.20993192

>>20993093
>Rubric terminators
>covered in spikes, horns and chaos stars.

Get on my level.

Awesome deal though, congratulations!

>> No.20993202

>>20993192
While that's a nice mini, the lack of egyptian-ish headdress is unnerving.

>> No.20993233

>>20993093
Get two Rhinos, split those rubrics/sorcs into 3 fluffy 9-man squads, make 2x2 oblits squads (or get two more oblits and field 3x2), use the vindi as third HS slot, get an HQ to use with those termies

And you're gold

>> No.20993239

>>20993202
But they have a sarcophagus deathmask with a headdress attached! And this spiffy scarab shoulderpad as army insignia.

>> No.20993259

>>20993239
But that's a spider! It has eight legs!

>> No.20993281

>>20993233

Oh I already have a ton of stuff.

But I was lacking for Tzeentch stuff.

I play Black Legion, all I need now is some Noise Marines and I can field pretty much any combination I want

>> No.20993282

>>20993259
It's a CHAOS SCARAB.

>> No.20993301

>>20993282
20 corruption + two rolls on extra limbs I guess.

>>20993281
Awesome. I'm 100% jelly about your new acquisition.

>> No.20993311

>>20993259
T-Those are... feelers!

Fuck! FUCK! I didn't notice till now. fuck your face, they're feelers.

>> No.20993347

>>20993301

Yeah, it's pretty great.

I feel fucking lucky, managed to snatch it just 2 hours after it went on sale

>> No.20993350

>>20993311
Scarabs have extremely small antennae though!

>> No.20993352

God dammit I want to run my CSM with daemons but I don't have Daemon WD update and I can't find it online.

>> No.20993357

>>20993149
Bump for this please. I'm seriously nervous about this and considering just using my TS as allies for my 'crons forever.

>> No.20993376

>>20993352
What daemons do you want? I have really shitty scans of them.

>> No.20993389

>>20993376

Not him, but if the flamers were updated, I'd like them

>> No.20993412

>>20993389

>> No.20993417

>>20993376
Well I would love to have the whole scan.. I want to buy what I like. I want Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle daemons.

>> No.20993440

>>20993417
The only updates were screamers, flamers, and the new chariots.

>> No.20993453

>>20993412

What the balls is a pyrocaster

Do you have the detail page too?

>> No.20993472

>>20993440
Seriously? Ow shit nigga. Alright.

>> No.20993486

>>20993453
It just makes him (it) a character.

>> No.20993524

>>20993486
And I guess the extra attack.

>> No.20993589

>>20993357
-That sorc is way too expensive
-Ichor Blood is a terrible waste of points
-MURDER SWORD is probably not optimal against GKs because after you MURDER your target the rest of the unit he was in is going to kick your ass into oblivion unless the DA ascends to Princehood
-I think the points from the gifts on your rubric sorcs could be better spent on more bodies or something
-You really seem to have a small army for 2000, need more bodies. You are not going to be able to out perform GKs with highly specialized units, you need as many high efficiency units as possible to both weather the storm and chip away at him.

>> No.20993626

Don't really know how to play but this is a fluffy Slaanesh list I put together, 1001 points. How bad did I stuff up?

Lord (157)
Chaos Lord (65) with Mark of Slaanesh (15), Terminator armour (40), Murder Sword (30)

Chosen (120)
6 Chosen (108) with Mark of Slaanesh (12)

Noise Marine Squad (161)
6 Noise Marines with x5 Sonic Blasters, Doom Siren, Power weapon, VOTLW (161)

Noise Marine Squad (161)
6 Noise Marines with x5 Sonic Blasters, Doom Siren, Power weapon, VOTLW (161)

Chaos Marine Squad (125)
6 Marines (88) with Bolters and CCW (12), Plasma gun (15)

Raptors (144)
6 Raptors (112) with Mark of Slaanesh (12), 2x Meltaguns (20)

Predator (140)
(75) with Lascannons (40), Twin-linked Lascannon (25)

>> No.20993630

>>20993149

>300 point Sorc

So that's like a joke right?

>> No.20993640

>>20993626

>Chosen with no options

Why?

>> No.20993671

>>20993626
Taking Chosen without options defeats the purpose of taking Chosen at all.

>> No.20993691

Does anyone know where this scan came from anyway?
There are so many little retarded things that I have to wonder if this isn't version 0.9999 of the codex.

>> No.20993694

>>20993640
Stupid I know, just wanted six doods to go with the lord as an afterthought and didn't have enough points left over. Should I scrounge up more points for them or just get another marine squad?

>> No.20993725

>>20993691

Some bro here from /tg/ did the scan (Or says he did anyway)

Where he got the codex I don't know

>> No.20993732

>>20993630
Not really. I like super-units (my necron list has a 1000-point deathstar that I curbstomp everyone with). Plus I have no more models to field and I don't want to buy anything else.

>>20993589
Ichor blood is only 5 points though, I had points to waste so I took it. The target of the MURDER SWORD was going to be his Dreadknight actually.

So I can't actually make my army viable against GK unless I buy more models or break my fluff by fielding my berzerkers n shit? Fuck..

>> No.20993751

$90 USD to spend on stuff. I currently have;

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour
40 Chaos Space Marines
10 Chaos Terminators

Legion is Iron Warriors. What do I buy that isn't Advance Order (i'm not buying straight from GW, sorry)?

>> No.20993774

>>20993751
Maybe some Dark Vengeance stuff 2nd hand? Some bitz sites have cultists etc.

>> No.20993782

>>20993732
I'm almost certain that even with the MURDER buff, a dreadknight will wipe that DA away. Possibly before you even get to swing, if DKs have I5 or higher.

>> No.20993791

>>20993751
>Advance Order
>No fiends or drake

You fucked up son

>> No.20993795

>>20993751

Weyland games has advance orders at 20% off

>> No.20993800

>>20993694
You could take a mini-termie squad to deep strike with your lord and be a nuisance to vehicles with combi-meltas.

>>20993732
300 points sorcerers are a terrible idea though. Try to at least bring it down to 200. If you bring it down to under 200 you can take a helbrute or something.

>> No.20993808

Can anybody evaluate this Slaaneshi list? I used the list builder linked ITT.

HQ

Terminator Lord (Lightning Claw, Powerfist, Mark of Slaanesh, Veterans of the Long War, Sigil of Corruption) - 177pts

Elites

Terminators x5 (Autocannon, Chainfist, x4 pairs of Lightning Claws, Mark of Slaanesh, Veterans of the Long War) - 229pts

Troops

Noise Marines x6 (x5 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Icon of Excess, Veterans of the Long War, Rhino w/ Havoc) - 235pts
Noise Marines x6 (x5 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Icon of Excess, Veterans of the Long War, Rhino w/ Havoc) - 235pts
Chaos Space Marines x10 (Mark of Slaanesh, Veterans of the Long War, Autocannon, Rhino w/ Havoc) - 200pts

Fast Attack

Helldrake

Heavy Support

Obliterators x2

I have 114pts left, wat do?

>> No.20993823

>>20993782
Nope, I4 so same time. Plus my apostle has a 3++ and has cultists for Look Out, Sir! rolls passable on 2+.

3 attacks on the charge, 4+ to hit, 2+ to wound and Dreadknight has a 5+ invuln and no Eternal Warrior. He just needs to fail 1 save to get creamed.

>> No.20993824

>>20993808
Moar heavy support

>> No.20993828

>>20993808

>I have 114pts left, wat do?

Use 75 to get a third Obliterator to fill out that squad

Use the rest for like, a few more Noise Marines or something

>> No.20993851

>>20993800
I'd love to, but I don't have the money or the interest to add more models to an army I'm not that into anymore.

Which is a shame cause I spent so much time and work on them to make them fluffy and look the part. I just got really disheartened by losing all the fucking time, I kinda feel I'll go back to being a loser if I play them again.

>> No.20993869

>>20993851

>I kinda feel I'll go back to being a loser if I play them again.

Wat

>> No.20993880

>>20993823
Can you LO,S! while in challenges?
I suppose you have a good shot at killing the DK, I still feel like it is a suicide mission. The other problem is that it probably wouldn't be too hard for him to just have his DK avoid your DA.

>> No.20993907

>>20993880
>Can you LO,S! while in challenges?
Pretty sure you can't.

>> No.20993931

So when will this actually be in stores?

>> No.20993933

>>20993808

Redone.

HQ

Terminator Lord (Lightning Claw, Powerfist, Mark of Slaanesh, Veterans of the Long War, Sigil of Corruption) - 177pts

Elites

Terminators x5 (Autocannon, Chainfist, x4 pairs of Lightning Claws, Mark of Slaanesh, Veterans of the Long War) - 229pts

Troops

Noise Marines x6 (x5 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Icon of Excess, Veterans of the Long War, Rhino w/ Havoc) - 235pts
Noise Marines x6 (x5 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Icon of Excess, Veterans of the Long War, Rhino w/ Havoc) - 235pts
Chaos Space Marines x10 (Mark of Slaanesh, Autocannon, Rhino w/ Havoc) - 200pts

Fast Attack

Helldrake - 170pts

Heavy Support

Obliterators x2 - 140pts
Predator (Lascannon Sponsons) - 115pts

>> No.20993943

TZEENTCH ARMY

Keep in mind:

- I don't plan to play serious bsns/tournament games and I hate flyers in general;
- I may have overblinged my termies, suggestions on that are appreciated;
- Said termies are joined by Ahridude.

Ahriman - 230

5x Terminators (4+1) w/ 3x combi-melta, 5x MoT, 5x VotLW, 1x Reaper, 1x power fist, 1x champ fist - 254
Helbrute w/ plasma cannon - 115
Helbrute w/ plasma cannon - 115

9x Thousand Sons (8+1) w/ Rhino - 277
9x Thousand Sons (8+1) w/ Rhino - 277
9x Thousand Sons (8+1) w/ Rhino - 277

5x Havocs (4+1) w/ 4x ML's, 4x Flakks - 175
1x Predator w/ lascannon turret and sponsons - 140
1x Predator w/ lascannon turret and sponsons - 140

2000/2000

>> No.20993960

>>20993869
I started playing Mono-God Tzeentch due me fancying the Thousand Sons a lot. I went out of my way to be fluffy and I also had to be super-strict with my purchases because I didn't have much money, I had to save a lot to have the disposable income for my hobby. This made me extremely anal about my choices, so I made a strict list and I only bought those models, making an "all-comer" list so I didn't have to buy 2 boxes of new units to take on every new opponent.

This coupled by the fact the previous codex was a pile of smegma had the gigantic fuck-up that my army was fucking shit and I kept losing so much I gradually lost heart. Then I switched to newcrons and got better at the game.

Now with this CSM update, my army's still not THAT good and I fear i'm just going to have a huge string of losses and so get depressed about having wasted my money on them.

>> No.20993985

>>20986915
If your regular attack is better than your poisoned, you use your regular roll and get a reroll on top of it.

>> No.20994025

IT IS A GOOD PAIN!

>> No.20994027

Does anyone notice that it doesn't have the disclaimer like in previous codex for customizing special characters?

The "you can use the model and rules for a named character to represent a mighty hero of blah bah"?

>> No.20994032

Rolled 2, 3 = 5

Just took this pic.

Slaanesh favors this thread.

>> No.20994051

>>20994025

SLAANESH IS MOST PLEASED!

LET US NOW PRAISE PAPA NURGHUUL

>> No.20994057

When is this shit dropping?

>> No.20994070

Rolled 5, 2 = 7

>>20994057

The codex? This weekend.

>> No.20994076

>>20994027

That's kind of fucking implicit

I don't know anyone who wouldn't let you say "Oh, this guy has Ahriman's rules but he's actually Bahriman, Chief Librarian of the Two-Thousand Sons

>> No.20994087

Wait so if I take a Mark of Nurgle in a squad of standard CSM, do I have to take one for every marine? Or just one mark and the whole squad is set?

>> No.20994104

>>20994076

My local game store happens to be a battle bunker, and while quite large and with loads of people, the asshattery at times is enormous.

>> No.20994117

>>20994087

3 points per mark, one mark for each marine.

So that's 30 points for a 10 man squad

>> No.20994120

>>20994087
One for each model. Or you thought 2 or so points for a squad-wide mark were fair?

Icons on the other hand are one per squad.

>> No.20994136

>>20993943
Hey fellas, I'd appreciate it if you could give me advice on that list.

>> No.20994153

>>20993800
Lord (157) & Terminator Squad (196)
Chaos Lord (65) with Mark of Slaanesh (15), Terminator armour (40), Murder sword (30)
5 Terminators (157) with Mark of Slaanesh (24), 3x Combi-meltas (15)

Noise Marine Squad (140)
6 Noise Marines with x5 Sonic Blasters, Power weapon (140)

Chaos Marine Squad (125)
6 Marines (88) with Bolters and CCW (12), Plasma gun (15)

Chaos Marine Squad (113)
6 Marines (88) with Bolters, Plasma gun (15)

Raptors (134)
6 Raptors (112) with Mark of Slaanesh (12), Meltagun (10)

Predator (140)
(75) with Lascannons (40), Twin-linked Lascannon (25)

I feel like I'm trying to add too much stuff, but I'm trying to keep squads at 6 and I wanna make use of my raptors and predator models...

>> No.20994173

>>20993795

oh, is that so.........

>> No.20994183

>>20994153
I like it. 6 everywhere. You're kinda lacking anti-tank so make good use of those meltas and that pred.

>> No.20994202

Shit, I play Night Lords and the thousand sons models look so out of place. Anyone know how to make a flaming skull for a head instead?

>> No.20994203

>>20994183
Yeah, it's even 6 squads/options... nice work!

>> No.20994222

>>20994202
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1710132a

>> No.20994230

>>20993960
>Then I switched to newcrons and got better at the game.

Did you ACTUALLY get better at the game, or did you start playing a better army?

And if you did actually get better at the game, then surely you'll be able to win more with your Thousand Sons now.

>> No.20994306

>tfw you spend your entire afternoon/evening ITT

>> No.20994308

>>20994230
Oh no I actually DID get better at the game. I come up with tactics, use my deployment phase well for positioning, do a lot of good shit. My newcron army works really well together for me and i've used it to beat the very same GK player i'm fighting saturday multiple times by large margins.

It's just that my previous experience with the losses, the fact mono-god tzeentch still isn't very good and my worries have kinda formed a mental block. I can't come up with anything. If someone can modify my wargear to be more effective, I'd love that. I'm just ... stuck.

>> No.20994322

>>20993943
Advice please?

>> No.20994349

>>20994308
If you want to enjoy mono-god armies, you really have to be in it for fun.

Will they be über competitive? No. Way too one-dimensional.

Will you have 9-man squads running around with Inferno Bolts and Soul Blaze everywhere? Hell yeah.

Unless you can embrace the fun of having a god-themed army, you should probably not play a mono-god army.

>> No.20994407

>>20994349
Hm. So you're telling me to keep my newcrons for when I want to roleplay as Kane and conquer the galaxy and when I play Thousand Sons I play a sorceror who lives to just fuck with people?

When I started newcrons I figured I could always use my TS as allies for them. I could start doing that.

>> No.20994419

>>20994349
Thing is though, other mono-god armies are pretty good. Khorne is good, slaanesh is better, nurgle is scary-good. It's only Tzeentch who gets fucked up.

>> No.20994471

>>20994407
Sure. Why not.

>> No.20994506

>>20994419
It's ironic, GW doing that to the god of just as planned, of all gods.

Or maybe Tzeentch likes to see us changing out lists all the fucking time trying to stop being curbstomped by GK fags among others.

>> No.20994621

>>20994506
Mmm.. I only play against my friends. They have:

1 GK, 1 SM, 1 IG, 1 CSM, 1 Nids.

With my TS i've lost against IG everytime (once I even got my 5-man squad of 2+/4++ termies killed in CC by bayonets in 1 round of combat..), I've gotten to a stalemate with SM, suffered a complete anal-holocaust at the hands of GK and Nids and only ever beat CSM.... only because the opposing player refuses to learn how to play/make lists and gets personally offended when you offer help.

I'd just like to win sometimes..

>> No.20994660

FUCK YEAH TIME FOR DOOM RIDER BITCHES!!!!

Chaos Lord with MoS, MurderSword, Combi-Melta, Bike, Sigil of Corruption, gift of mutation = 180pts

riding with whatever bikes I have with FNP , meltaguns and powerfist ( 9 )

>> No.20994685

>>20994660
give him the super flamer instead

>> No.20994686

>>20994660
It's too bad you can't make bikers troops. That would be fuckawesome.

>>20994621
How is your score with Necrons?

>> No.20994790

>>20994686
Newcrons are fairly .... new so I haven't fought anyone but my GK friend like 6 times. He was the only guy available due to others having work or school related duties.

He beat me twice at first when I played a really bad and unreliable 1500 list (though I get a moral victory for both due to amusing shenanigans). Then I did plenty of reading up, playtested shit by myself at home and made a much more solid list that works together for me really well, 2000 points though.

With that list, I've creamed the guy every time after that by large margins, like having 600-800 point differences in how much we've killed of the opponent's army. Both very fun and powerful with lulz to be had.

I'd love to have that with my TS. I don't want to go "Well, I can't beat this guy unless I bring my Necrons. I'll play CSM and try to have fun". But then I lose and feel frustrated after.

>> No.20994821

>>20994790
Oh yeah, and I also completely steamrolled a Black Templars player I gamed with on a whim.

>> No.20994847

>>20994790
Can't you do some adaptation work and field undivided marines? I'm not sure about GK's but I never lost against my IG and SM pals.

>> No.20994926

>>20994847
Well, I DO have a 10-man squad of berzerkers I used to field as "allies" fluff-wise but I stopped that so I can have a single proper colour-scheme, mono-god. I also have a 10-man squad of normal converted CSM (from black reach marines) with slashed iconography and a converted champion and icon bearer. Painted them in Blood Raven colours though, as fresh renegades (since BR are loyalist TS offshoots). Still, colour-scheme.

I know I shouldn't be this anal but christ it gets on my nerves. I wish I could stop.

>> No.20994966

>>20994660


samefag here, i just got a deal with 2 starters who wants to sell second hand their bikes and since i've already got 3 with my own boxset.

I already got my Doomrider mini converted, just needs to be dusted off and good to go.

FFFFFFKKKK YEAAAAHHHH!!!!!

>> No.20994993

>>20994926
That's why you go with something as Black Legion (and paint some details on cult-troops, something resembling the deathwatch).

I've been trying to do a tzeentchian army as well, only I can't see it working. Units are too expensive, there isn't a good volume of anti-infantry fire, etc.

>> No.20995001

>>20994966
Nice job dude, grats!

TIME FOR A HIT OR 3.

>> No.20995014

Rolled 4, 3 = 7

>>20995001
Save one for me.

>> No.20995017

Anyone know where i can find a badass bike for my chaos lord? I play IW so ganna attach servo arms and stuff to him and the bike.

>> No.20995110

>>20994993
That's the thing though, I don't want to play as Black Legion, I don't like them at all. I tried to go around the whole "Fluffy = limited units" roadblock by making fluff and conversions to have my units make sense. For example, a TS maulerfiend makes no fucking sense but it DOES if the maulerfiend in question is a big fucking animated/possessed sphinx.

I just can't bloody keep it up, it's too expensive and time-consuming just to have it be moderately viable when I can just field my necrons. They got so much varied wargear I can literally use the same damn units against every opponent, just optimize gear.

>> No.20995130

Rolled 1, 1 = 2

>>20995110
Create your own legion? Use something else like Word Bearer? Damn man, I don't know. I'd create my own shit in that situation.

>> No.20995140

>>20995110
I guess it's my fault really. It's my personality.

I want to have fun, play themed armies, make custom fluff and have a blast... but I don't have much fun when I lose.

>> No.20995169

>>20995130
I have. My warband is a TS off-shoot. The Sorc Lord has a thing for traditionalism and so tries his best to keep the aesthetic and heirarchy going, but often lends his troops to help Abadabadoo or others for their own goals in return for knowledge.

Might have backed myself into a corner by making them too TS-like.

>> No.20995178

Rolled 2, 2 = 4

>>20995140
I know how you feel to an extent. I posted about having similar issues with aligned/undivided armies and unit organization.

But I get the feeling you'd do better with TS if you practiced more.

>> No.20995196

Rolled 6, 1 = 7

>>20995178
NOOOOAAARRRRGHAHWAWAKFAHKFSAFOASIGP``[[

>> No.20995253

>>20995178
Yeah, perhaps. I'm not sure this codex is genuinely powerful enough to stand to-to-toe with GK unless you go Beardy-Nurgle though, or at least somewhat-beardy-Slaanesh. I may be wrong.

I will practice for sure. Just hope something good happens.

>> No.20995283 [DELETED] 

Hey tg, lit recommended i come here for your advice.

Do you know where i can acquire the mechwarrior novels? Preferably free and online?

>> No.20995292

>>20995253
>I'm not sure this codex is genuinely powerful enough to stand to-to-toe with GK unless you go Beardy-Nurgle though, or at least somewhat-beardy-Slaanesh. I may be wrong.

Take 300 cultists across 2 primary detachments, and fight FOR FREEDOM!

Then take a Dark Apostle without a helmet on, sculpt a tiny pringles can over his mouth, and have him LIBERATE THE OPPRESSED!

>> No.20995299

>>20995283
hawkward.jpg

>> No.20995308

Are Ghetto Tactical Squads any good? (Special Weapon and Heavy Weapon on basic CSM squad)

Or is double weapon the best choice?

>> No.20995313

>>20995253
I can go toe to toe with GK using my current army. Tell me though, can it beat the Space Wolves, because my ass gets brutalized when I play Spehs Wolves

>> No.20995318

>>20995283
You'd have better luck asking in a mechwarrior thread or creating your own. This is a 40k-related sticky.

I'd help you anyway but I don't know anything about them, sorry.

>> No.20995324 [DELETED] 

So hold on guys, can generic HQs take vanilla daemon weapons? I don't see an option for it anywhere i glanced, but it doesn't make any sense for them not to.

I am of course not talking about the artefacts.

>> No.20995325

>>20995313
Well, what is your army nigga?

>> No.20995334

>>20995283
>hey tg, lit told me to come here
>novels
>posts in a thread about chaos marines

>mechwarrior
>in a 40k thread

u dun goof'd son.

>> No.20995343

So, I've been toying around with the new CSM codex, and I came-up with this list. Now, I'm really limited on my CSM models, so this is all I have. Tips? I've never played as a MEQ army.

Keep in mind, I play casually amongst friends, so I'm not looking for ridiculous theorycrafting


HQ
Chaos Lord - 65
Terminator Armor - 40
Sigil of Corruption - 25
The Murder Sword - 35
Mark of Nurgle - 15
Gift of Mutation - 10
190

Daemon Prince - 145
Mark of Slaanesh - 10
Wings - 40
Power Armor - 20
Axe of Blinding Fury - 30
Gift of Mutation
255

Elite
6 Chosen - 108
Power Maul - 15
Pair of Lightning Claws - 30
Power Axe - 15
Power Fist - 25
Mark of Khorne x 6 - 12
Icon of Wrath - 20
Gift of Mutation - 10
235

Helbrute - 105
Twin-linked Lascannon - 25
Missile Launcher - 10
140

5 Terminators - 157
4 Power fist - 28
Lightning Claw - 3
Gift of Mutation - 10
Gift of Nurgle - 30
228

Troops
10 Chaos Cultists - 50
8 Autoguns - 8
Heavy stubber - 5
Shotgun - 2
Mark of Nurgle x 10 - 20
85

10 Chaos Cultists - 50
8 Autoguns - 8
Flamer - 5
Shotgun - 2
Mark of Nurgle x 10 - 20
85

10 Plague Marines - 240
Plasma Gun - 15
Gift of Mutation - 10
1 Combi-bolter - 3
Power fist - 25
293

10 Plague Marines - 240
Plasma Gun - 15
Gift of Mutation - 10
1 Combi-bolter - 3
Power fist - 25
293

>> No.20995344

>>20995325
Nilla marines.

>> No.20995379

>>20995308
Hah, where does this Ghetto Tac thing come from? It's hilarious.

Personally, I'd rather have them hold special weapons. Hate having to stand still to fire those launchers effectively. Plus trying to do everything makes you mediocre at everything.

>>20995344
Well, I guess. Depends largely on your build.

>> No.20995386

>>20995283
OH MY FUCKING GOD i just replied to the thread. i meant to make my own. DELETING

>> No.20995390

>>20995343
You're gonna want transports, else your guys just get shot to death on the way to the objectives.

I'd say drop the Chosen and buy some Rhinos, since Chosen don't really do much in the new Codex

>> No.20995407

>>20995390
Unfortunately, I'm playing a game tomorrow. Unless he lets me use a BWagon as a counts-as Rhino, I'm fucked in that regard.

Even still, I only have one

>> No.20995421

>>20995386
picture related

>>20995343
Get more bodies on those cultist squads. 10 cultists can and probably will get blown/charged to shit very quickly, conceding your opponent some easy kill points.

You're also lacking in anti-armor/anti-MC/anti-air department.

>> No.20995435

>>20995421
Like I said, these are all the models I have.

I'm fucked, aren't I.

>> No.20995451

>>20995435
What's the point total? You'll be fine in lower point games.

>> No.20995452

>>20995343
You took a Khorne-only axe on a daemon prince who cannot be given a Mark of Slaanesh. He can made a DAEMON of slaanesh which has a completely different effect. Check the actual daemon prince entry (the one with the pictures and fluff).

Rest is aight.

>> No.20995487

dont really like the standard berzerker model. anyone see/thought of any interesting conversion ideas?

>> No.20995490

>>20995343
Also, DP's are too expensive nowadays. At least your DP is.

>> No.20995499

Just painted (most) of my Iron Warriors Chaos Lord. All that's left is some liberal washes and clean up'/lightnings, then to paint arms and attach them.

Feels good man.

>> No.20995506

>>20995452
Fuck, I completely skipped over the Khorne only part. That really blows.

>>20995451
I'm going to recommend we play lower. There wasn't really a decided point list, just whatever I could muster.

>>20995490
Going to HOPEFULLY drop the DP and play a 1500 game.

>> No.20995518

>>20995487
I'm the TS guy and my 10-man berzerker squad is all converted/re-posed in some way. Here's an example:

I present to you Jason Voorhees carrying Freddie Krueger's head. When it comes to berzerkers, go mad.

>> No.20995524

>>20995407

Get some cardboard, make it into a box then color it silver, with sharpy or spraypaint, then label it:

MƎTAL BӨXƎS

>> No.20995551

>>20995524
Hahaha

Look! Rhinos! RRRRRRHHHHIIIIIIINNNNNOOOSSSSS!

My FLGS owner would kill me if I did that.

>> No.20995561

>>20995343
>>20995524

He should give them to Plague Marines and name it

VAMONOS PEST

>> No.20995563

>>20995518
Also, when it comes to Chaos: Take the piss, especially out of Loyalists. Case in point, the nigga on the left. Seem familiar?

http://img1.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n49/n245615.jpg

>> No.20995580

>>20995563
Oh fuck, I love it!

>> No.20995604

>>20995563
>Hey Kharn look at me! i'm a LOYALIST DOG commissar lol
>brofist
>The berzerker's soul is instantly obliterated

>> No.20995617

>>20995563
>>20995604
<insert Kharn's commissar hat joke here>

>> No.20995634

Not to be THAT tripfag, but my buddy and I decided to bring it back to 1000 points. Since that's the case, what do you guys think I should hack off?

>DP
>Chosen

Uhhh, that's like, 500 points there.

Maybe merge the Cultists into one unit and kit them less out?

>> No.20995667

>>20995634
Merging cultists would be a good idea. Keep the Helbrite, but don't swap the power fist for a launcher, ever. EVER.

Keep the termies and the lord as well.

>> No.20995669

>>20995563
Here's my last one for the berzerker anon: Impotent Rage on the left, Khonan the Berzerkian in the middle and Dante May Newgameisshit on the right.

what i'm trying to say here is, don't take yourself too seriously and have fun.

>> No.20995688

>>20995667
I figured I lacked anti-armor, so the Helbrute was suppose to act as a firing platform. TW Lascannon and S8 missile is a bad idea? How so?

>> No.20995717

>>20995669
>>20995563
>>20995518

Glorious.

>> No.20995721

>>20995324
No such thing.

>> No.20995723

>>20995688
Las/missile dreads suck. You never see them

>> No.20995726

>>20995688
You need a close-combat weapon.

You never know when you may get the opportunity to charge at that metal box or lonely character, or that dinky, isolated but annoying squad.

Plus, it intimidates your opponent when it comes to unit placement. He'll think twice before putting units within charge range, which he wouldn't give a shit about otherwise. Gives you more control over the board.

Plus, it gives you some measure of survival against charging anti-box squads or distraction mooks thrown at your brute.

>> No.20995739

>>20995688

your @1304 after droping the Prince and Chosen, assuming you swap one shotty for 2 more autoguns

>> No.20995758

>>20995726

I always liked keeping the PFist on my Dreadnoughts for this same reason. Multi-melta, PFist and Heavy Flamer all day every day.

>> No.20995772

>>20995717
Many thanks. I should sleep since it's 20 mins to 6am but fuck that for now. TEA AND COLD PIZZA IT IS.

This thread is simply too fun, even if i'm wracked by the thoughts of my army being shite.

>> No.20995776

>>20995758
Indeed. No reason to bling out the new Helbrute since the options are actually worse than the default shit, save for flamers and depending on your situation, plasma cannons.

>> No.20995780

>>20991442
>It's not aerodynamics that keeps Imperial fighters in the air.

You can say that again.

>> No.20995790

>>20995772

Chaos isn't shit if your having FUN!!!

Khorne Lord on Juggernaught with Spawn attack dogs ftw!!!

>> No.20995802

>>20995780

Well not so much anti grav as they are just missiles with wings to steer and people to drive them.

Orks specialize thier missiles, i mean fighters, by taking out all the extra stuff like brakes and landing gear and life support to add in moar dakka.

>> No.20995810

>>20995772
Heh. Spent the entire day watching shows/reading wiki/posting ITT/making lists. This thread is the shit.

>Huron vierget
holy shit, he raided my captcha

>> No.20995835

>>20990314
It needs to be errated that if the cultists wins he automatically becomes a DP.

>> No.20995896

>>20995790
Yeah but I play mono-god TS, I has no khorne.
And I lose 24/7 with them so it's not very fun.

Although yeah, I'd totally do that. If chosen could take bikes or bikers could take power weapons, you could make an entire warband centered around DICKASS KHORNATE KNIGHTS WITH LANCES.

Like The Knights of the Round Table only they're BLOODS of the BLOOD GOD.

>>20995810
ALL HAIL BASED HURON. Seriously look at his entry picture. What a smug prick.

>> No.20995932

>>20995896
Man, bikers with Power Lances would be boss.

>> No.20995943

>>20995896

I play mono god TSons too!!

Right now I run Sorc, 2x 9 Man TSons each with 15 Man Melee Cultist Screen and a Defiler

Twinlinked flamer don't care if you BS1 xD

>> No.20995948

>>20995896
>>20995932
I'd like to make Berzerkers on Juggernauts with power lances. CATAPHRACTS OF KHORNE.

>> No.20995959

>>20995948

Biker conversions here i come........

>> No.20995962

>>20995943
Template weapons can't fire Snap Shots...

>> No.20995978

>>20995959
Don't forget the lamellar armor, or ring if you can't find it.

>> No.20995992

>>20995932
>>20995948
Well, you CAN make them but very limited as only the champions can take power weapons. you could have a KHORNATE KNIGHT CHAMPION being escorted around by a bunch of lowly peasant berzerkers.

You can also make your Raptor champion a DRAGOON backed up by Flamer/Melta raptors.

Herohammer would be an awesome mode of play for Champions. Could do like an adventure with spiffy fantasy classes. Dragoon, Knight, Sorceror, Assassin etc.

>>20995943
Do you actually win though? I think 15 cultists are pretty meh, they'll die superfast to anything and Defilers are far too overcosted for what they deliver. Still, I have respect for you as a fellow Prosperine.

>> No.20996029

>>20995992

It's a 1k point army and the cultists are supposed to die, as long as the TSons can hose down what killed em, it's all good.

Plus defiler I have is converted bipedal death machine and i don't have the money for a Forgefiend at the moment.

>> No.20996056

What themes are you guys working on? Right now I'm going with a semi-fossilized look with some old growth on top. Fluff wise they have a gene defect that made the majority of them highly resilient but also causes them to go dormant and mostly fossilize for a time. They will randomly awaken and then carry on their mission of finding their currently unknown origins. It must be truly frightening for the feral worlder who finds the centerpiece idol of their magnificent shrine waking up and yelling in a strange tongue.

Often joining them are a ragtag group of Dark Mechanicus who join them in their knowledge seeking. The DM cult following them manages the vehicles needed and the gathering of currently dormant CSM in exchange for their share of the discoveries made by the group.

I haven't thought of a logo or name for them yet.

>> No.20996066

So, super-newb here. Researching thousand sons. Everywhere I look says use horrors for dakka. Now, I don't have a daemons codex handy but...

THey have BS 0 and no shooty weapons. How are they shooty?

>> No.20996068

>>20996029
Fair enough bro, whatever works for you. Happy to hear it actually works for you!

>> No.20996095

>>20996068

It does whe nthe defiler doesn't get missiled by a defcopter squad turn one >.>

lol that game was hilarious

>> No.20996132

>>20995790

Good idea. But what would look good for chaos wardogs, that aren't the butt ugly Hound models we currently have?

>> No.20996205

Since I have been out of 40k since 6th came in, can anyone explain what Soul Blaze and Torrent do?

>> No.20996236

So can a Noise Champion really not have a power weapon and a bolt pistol at the same time (despite being pictured with one in the photos)? Seems there's no way for them to get the close combat weapon to swap out for the power weapon, unless of course they can take the same options as the Noise Marines, and thus also take a Sonic Blaster as an option.

>> No.20996252

>>20996205

>Soul Blaze
Units tagged by a Soul Blaze weapon take extra burning damage each turn on a 4+(d3 S4 AP5 hits, I believe) until the fire goes out(3 or less). It does not stack per weapon or unit: a unit is either tagged by Soul Blaze or it isn't.

>Torrent
Template weapon with a 12" range. Like the default weapons on the Hellhound and the Tyrannofex.

>> No.20996274

>>20996066

Chaos Spawn are not Horrors. Pink Horrors of Tzeentch are in the Chaos Daemons codex, they have BS3 and a S4 AP4 Assault 3 gun at 17 points. Chaos Daemons are battle brothers with Chaos Space Marines.

>> No.20996302

>>20996236
Yes he can. He can buy a power weapon from the melee wargear section and he comes with a standard bolt pistol.

>> No.20996327

>>20996302
Read the wargear section, it says you can replace a bolt pistol OR a close combat weapon to get the power weapon. So if he replaces his bolt pistol, he no longer has it.

>> No.20996349

>>20994025
>>20994032

NURGLE IS MOST PLEASED WITH THIS THREAD!

NOW LET UT BRING FAVOURS FROM KHORNE!

>> No.20996361

>>20996327
Exchange your bolter for a ccw for free.
Swap out the ccw for a power weapon.
Buy a Doom Siren.

>> No.20996364

>>20996327
Check to the right.

"The noise champion may take items from the melee weapons and/or ranged weapons sections of the wargear list."

Go to pg. 91 for wargear.

>> No.20996376

>>20996349
Nice.

>> No.20996392

>>20996364
Yes, I read that. How about you read the top line under Melee Weapons on page 91, which is what I'm referring to.

>> No.20996394

>>20996364
Check the wargear list.
You need to replace your ccw or bolt pistol to take one.

>> No.20996427

guys
they brought back leopard print and zebra print noise marines

>> No.20996435

>>20996361
Either a) Noise Marines can swap out their boltgun, but Noise Champions can't, so this instance occurs; or b) Noise Champions count as Noise Marines, so can get that CCW, but then also have Sonic Blasters available to them.

>> No.20996436

>>20996376

It is a sign,

>> No.20996456

>>20996394

You can do this though

>>20996361

You give away the bolter for a ccw, swap it for a power weapon, keep the bolt pistol.

>> No.20996460

>>20996435
I would say that b0 is the case.
But I may be wrong. Surely GW aren't stupid enough to have meant a) to be right... Not being able to have two close combat weapons severely nerfs champions.

>> No.20996483

>>20996435
>>20996460
People have been wondering regarding such things - if champions count as normal squadmates for options or not.

It's something we need a FAQ for.

If not, just take a plasma pistol.

>> No.20996497

I just thought of something.

Sor + MoN + Bike + Iron Arm = T 7-9

Usefull or just downright silly?

>> No.20996500

>>20996483
But I'm also taking a Doom Siren.
Plasma Pistol is not worth it if I won't be using it.

>> No.20996503

>scratchbuild typhus
>2 bag o zombies
>$20 dollar 1000 pt army
Well, what should I add to this?

>> No.20996522

>>20996503

Some terminators to teleport in with Typhus.

>> No.20996580

Sup /tg/, I was planning on kit-bashing a renegade havok squad for my force, which contains the contents of DV + 1 marine squad, so i'm rather low on heavy weapons, but all I've got on me is a lascannon, a plasma cannon and two plasma guns.

Should I go for it, or should I buy a devastator squad and pick what I want?

>> No.20996595

>>20996580
I prefer fielding my havocs with a single choice of weapons (all las/plascannon/launcher).

>> No.20996602

>>20996595
Nevermind the plasma cannon part, they can't take those.

>> No.20996625

How do these two look for general lay outs?

20 Chaos Space Marines (380)
- Power Fist (Aspiring Champion)
- Plasma Gun
- Autocannon
- Mark of Nurgle

10 Chaos Space Marines
- Plasma Gun x 2
-Mark of Nurgle
-Chaos Rhino

Might go double Meltagun or Flamer/Meltagun on the Rhino squad. idk.

>> No.20996626

>>20987002
Why havoc launcher on Vindicator? You can only fire snap shots after firing ordnance.

>> No.20996633

>>20996625

>10 Chaos Space Marines (235)

my bad

>> No.20996637

>>20996580
You could combine a Chaos Space Marine box with Forgeworld Heavy Weapon kits for a nice result, and no wasted loyalist parts (since those kits are just weapons + arms).

>> No.20996657

>>20996626
It's not so bad if he gets a weapon destroyed result (50/50 chance of having the cannon survive, still being marginally useful if it doesn't) but yeah...

>> No.20996777

How's this 1500pt Slaanesh army /tg/? Lord goes and outflanks with bikers. Warpsmith hangs out with the chosen and melee stuff. Either Warp and his posse gets the rhino or the blob of CSM.

Chaos Lord- MoS,Vet,MURDER SWORD,Meltabombs,Sigil,Steed,Combi-melta
total: 180

Warpsmith-Combi-melta,Aura,MoS
total: 150

Forgefiend-
total: 175pts

Chosen (5 strong)- vets, MoS,Icon,Flamer x2,Champ power sword,Power sword
total: 230

CSM (10 strong)-CCWs,MoS
total: 180

Noise Marines (6 strong)-Sonic blasters x6
total: 130


Noise Marines (6 strong)-Sonic blastersx6
total: 130

Chaos Bikers (5 strong)-Meltagun x2,MoS,Icon, Vets
total:180pts

Hellbrute- Autocannon
total: 110pts

Rhino- 35pts

>> No.20996782

>>20996349
kinda wanna dump a bunch of pis and fuck it up.

>> No.20996794

As I slowly assemble all of these Chaos Space Marines I just realized something.

Some of them have skulls sculpted right into their cod pieces.

Skull crotches.

Really GW?

>> No.20996812

>>20996777
Multi-melta > Autocannon when it comes to Helbrute. Or Plasma Cannon. MC/vehicle/TEQ popping potential.

>> No.20996816

>>20996794

chaos man, whaddya gonna do?

>> No.20996875

>>20996816

I hope they glow when the chaos gods are pleased.

Maybe it strikes fear into the hearts of the imperial lap-dogs?

Or acts as a warning light for when someone is about to be raped...

>> No.20996921

So is the codex download clean? My POS laptop is whining about how downloading it could be harmful.

>> No.20996929

>>20996921

its the cleanest text ablut nurgle youll ever download

>> No.20996959

>>20996921

Its fine, your laptop is a coward.

>> No.20996985

>>20996637
Hadn't thought about the FW weapon set, I'll look into it. Cheers anon

>> No.20996987

>>20996959
Cowards die in shame.

>> No.20996999

THIS CODEX SUCKS

>> No.20997065

Well, it sounds like the codex breathes a bit of life into the faction.

>> No.20997068

>>20996999
suprised? why so?

>> No.20997107

>>20990522
Angron and his boys took on the whole Imperium for a century or so, that's a hell of a lot more than Abbadon ever did, with Abbadon's greatest accomplishment being "MAY BE ABLE TO THREATEN THE IMPERIUM... IF HE CAN GET OFF CADIA"

Seriously, the book attempts to build up Abbadon as scary again, but still leaves it clear he can't deal with Cadia. At all.

Its a planet. You can totally go around it, dude.

>> No.20997143

>>20996985
Actually, still might go with the devastator kit, it's got more weapons options.

>> No.20997150

>>20997107

Except most Crusades have gone much further than Cadia, most notably the Gothic War.

>> No.20997161

Hi. Nice sticky, I suppose this got popular enough to warrant it?

I'm this guy:
>>20985922
>>20986117
>>20986168
>>20986688

Does anyone have questions they want answered?
>link to your question if you already asked it, not sure who's still here

>> No.20997206

>>20996435
>Either a) Noise Marines can swap out their boltgun, but Noise Champions can't, so this instance occurs; or b) Noise Champions count as Noise Marines, so can get that CCW, but then also have Sonic Blasters available to them.

I see it working like this:
Noise Marine
Noise Champion
*(always worked as if they are different, I.E. all erratta such as "Can my cadian serg take a meltagun? [no, he is listed as a different model])

So lets take a look at the gear.
WARGEAR: (please note, it specifies who "only gets this" inside brackets like this sentence is bracketed)


So now instead of the champion, going over to his options to the right instead of "replace any weapon for this option" sort of deal it's "champion may take any of the following".

So he gets to bypass the whole "pick a CCW or a sonic blaster" that already lists that only Noise Marine (the exact name, not champion) can have those two options.

>> No.20997263

>>20997206
The first part of your post makes sense, and is typically the way GW does things. As such, he can't take a CCW (either through swapping out for it or paying the 1pt) nor a sonic blaster.

This means he can't get a CCW through any means, so when taking melee weapons from the wargear list on page 91, following the rules on that page, he has to swap out his bolt pistol if he wants any melee weapon, so he can't get the bonus for having a second CCW unless he swaps out his boltgun with a plasma pistol (which is quite an expensive way to get an extra attack).

>> No.20997277

Someone tell me if Predators are worth a shit before I finish modelling this Rhino.
Pic unrelated.

>> No.20997303

>>20997263
No you need to look at the entry. Picture related.

>> No.20997337

>>20997277
Predators are worth it because of the 2 Heavy Bolters, Autocannon and Havoc Launcher you can add to the mix.

Or you can just take the havoc launcher and side sponson lascannons for a do-it-all predator that's all 48", with a mixed havoc squads style weapons.

>> No.20997339

>>20997303
Look at this faggot

>> No.20997342

>>20997303

Now read just below that, on page 91 under the Melee Weapons bold text but above the weapon options themselves.

>> No.20997350

>>20997303
you appear to be purposely obtuse, you need to trade something out, pic related

>> No.20997355

>>20997303
>>20997263
>>20997206
D'oh I see the problem now.

It helps if I try to make a list and look at everything. Normally they add the part "replace" in the first rule of the box.

This makes sure you only replace the pistol with a power fist.

>> No.20997363

>>20997277
>>20997337
They also can get warpflame gargoyles for 5 points that give all their weapons soul blaze.

>> No.20997385

>>20997350
>>20997342
Well since he has a pistol and a bolter, the claw/fist is a half decent choice since they go with bolter. Bolter for the plasma pistol is outshined by combi bolter, wanting that extra attack...

Since I have eaten 2 wound space marine HQ's continuously in the past with power weapon slaaneshi units, I can sort of see why this is in place....

>> No.20997387

>>20997337
>>20997363
Thank you. The Dark Prince's servants will see you in the next modelling thread.

>> No.20997392

Just got done playing my first game with the new codex.

Nurgle Bike Lord went full hulk-mode, taking out a Master of the Forge, a Scout Squad (with sgt Telion), a 10-man Assault squad with PF sarge, 2 Ironclad Dreadnoughts, and a normal Dreadnought.

His bodyguard of bikes took out 3 scouts before being murdered by the first Dreadnought, so this was primarily solo. I'll post the build in my next post.

>> No.20997402

>>20997392
The Bike Lord build in question:

HQ:
Chaos Lord (200)
-Mark of Nurgle
-Blight Grenades
-Melta Bombs
-Chaos Bike
-Sigil of Corruption
-Gift of Mutation
-Veteran of the Long War
-MURDER SWORD

MURDER SWORD was keyed to the Master of the Forge.

>> No.20997407

>>20997402
Derp, he also had a Power Axe, although he never actually used it.

>> No.20997415

>>20997363
So the optimum dakka predator is something like:

122 Predator: 2 Heavy Bolters, Autocannon, Combi Bolter, Combi Plasma, Havoc Launcher, Gargoyles
So inside 24" get to pick plas/bolter, bolter(reroll hit), 6 heavy bolter and 2 autocannon shots with reroll scatter str5ap5 blast.

>> No.20997416

Dark Apostle
-Veterans of the Long War
-Burning Brand of Skalathrax
@ 135 points

Chaos Space Marines
-5 additional marins
-Veterans of the Long War
-2x Melta
-Powerfist
-Combi Melta
-Rhino
-Warpflame Gargoyle
-Havoc Launcher
-Melta Bombs
@257

Chaos Space Marines
-5 additional marins
-Veterans of the Long War
-2x Melta
-Powerfist
-Combi Melta
-Rhino
-Warpflame Gargoyle
-Havoc Launcher
-Melta Bombs
@257

Chaos Space Marines
-5 additional marins
-Veterans of the Long War
-2x Melta
-Powerfist
-Combi Melta
-Rhino
-Warpflame Gargoyle
-Havoc Launcher
-Melta Bombs
@257

Chaos Space Marines
-5 additional marins
-Veterans of the Long War
-2x Melta
-Powerfist
-Combi Melta
-Rhino
-Warpflame Gargoyle
-Havoc Launcher
-Melta Bombs
@257

Raptors
-2x Meltas
-Veterans of the Long War
-Power weapon
@140

Raptors
-2x Meltas
-Veterans of the Long War
-Power weapon
-Melta Bombs
@145

Raptors
-2x Meltas
-Veterans of the Long War
-Power weapon
@140

Predator
-2x Sponson Heavy bolter
-Warpflame Gargoyle
-Extra Armor
@137

Predator
-2x Sponson Heavy bolter
@127

Predator
-2x Sponson Heavy bolter
-Warpflame Gargoyle
@127

>> No.20997441

>>20997402
Awesome.

Did he survive to the end or no?
And did he get any cool gifts of chaos?

>> No.20997474

>More autosaging Chaos threads!
>838 posts and 86 image replies omitted.
>EIGHT HUNDRED, THIRTY-EIGHT POSTS.
Holy hell, the populated boards never get that type of response!

>> No.20997477

>>20997415
Christ, that's insane. Personally, I wouldn't go for the combi-weapons, but that's just because I hate short range weapons on tanks.

>> No.20997483

>>20997441
Yes he survived. It was only 1500 pts, so he killed over half the enemy army by himself.

His Gift rolls were as follows:

Pre-game: Stubborn (derp)
Killing Scout Sgt: Crusader
Killing sgt Telion: Return to full wounds (very good, i had taken a wound by that point)
Killing Assault Sgt: Unworth Offering
Killing MoTF: +1 BS

Nothing amazing, but he didn't get spawned. Ended the game with 1 wound remaining.
It should also be noted that he rolled Black Crusader for his warlord trait, giving him a ton of extra killing power against those pesky Loyalists.

>> No.20997500

I'm thinking about 200 cultists. There is unlikely to be much that can deal with them.

>> No.20997506

>>20997303
Give him a Doom Siren instead of a plasma pistol, and then toss him a power weapon or some lightning claws. It won't be cheap, but he'll rape face in challenges.

>> No.20997510

>>20997500
Blendernought. Any monstrous creature. Purifiers. Any tank.

>> No.20997513

>>20997483
Rather awesome.

>> No.20997538

>>20997506
He can't take two lightning claws, he only has one weapon to swap out.

>> No.20997545

>>20997500
Cultists are only good for cheap objective campers really. Their only real strength is that the enemy might just ignore them for 4 turns, and then they get the chance to contest an enemy objective.

>> No.20997565 [DELETED] 

>>20997538
>Boltgun
>Bolt pistol

That's two weapons all right.

Also, am I the only one who's bugged by the fact that Plague Zombies can't get the Mark of Nurgle?

>> No.20997579

>>20997565
You can't swap a boltgun for a melee weapon.

>> No.20997589

>>20997538
What a load of bollocks.

>> No.20997593

>>20997538
Couldn't he buy a CCW for 2 points (it says Any Noise Marine can take one) and then swap it out for a lightning claw along with his pistol? Then he'd still have his boltgun, too.

>> No.20997598

>>20997545
Am I the only one who's bugged that Plague Zombies can't buy the Mark of Nurgle?

>> No.20997600

>>20997593
That's what the entire discussion has been about.

>> No.20997603

>>20997565
Eh, a Mark is something that worshipers of the god get. The Zombies are the mindless undead victims of Typhus' plague, not worshipers.

Plus, it would be pretty powerful to get FNP for free on T4 models. FNP scales in effectiveness the higher T the model is, because fewer things can deny it at higher T values.

>> No.20997606

>>20997593
Take a look at earlier in the thread. The consensus seemed to be no.

>> No.20997609

>>20997606
Which is poo.

>> No.20997619

>>20997545

Well, I haven't fully read over the current 6th Ed rules, but if I remember correctly Cultists are equipped with Frag grenades, and when a unit with grenades assaults a unit in a building, they can forgo their attacks and instead roll a D6 per grenade...With a full squad of cultists, that could be a lot of grenades.

I of course could be wrong on all of this though, so don't take it as fact.

>> No.20997620

>>20997477
>short range on tanks
Well if you want to get technical, all your other units are 24" or less or will be forced by other units to be.

Those extra 2 shots only cost 15 points, with one possible plasma shot, and rerolls on the other bolter shot so it's 2.33 bolters in addition. 4 bolter shots equals a heavy bolter versus toughness 4.

I think the average additional wounds from the gargoyles and 2 Cbolter/CLbolter against toughness 4 are:
1.6736111111111111111111111111103
Thats with the chance of the flames during opponents turn too before you get to "reset" the marker. To compare to a heavy bolter it's:
1.3333333333333333333333333333333 wounds.
Or just 1.33 compared to 1.67.
(you paid 15 points for these two bolters with a one shot flamer/melta/plasma)

>> No.20997632

>>20997620
Oops, 20 points for the upgrades* forgot I added gargoyles in there.
>gargoyles works with the other weapons too, assuming you killed a model

>> No.20997661

>>20997619
Nope, Cultists don't get grenades. Their ONLY options are replacing their pistols for Autoguns, taking Flamers or HStubbers (1 per 10 models), giving the champ a Shotgun, and taking a Mark. They can't even get an Icon to make them fearless.

Now, granted, if they take a Mark of Khorne they're decent at assaulting, but at that point they cost the same as Ork Boyz but don't have T4, WS4, Furious Charge. or Fearless, and have 1 less attack than the Orks when they aren't charging.

Cultists are bad at everything, but they're cheap and scoring.

>> No.20997690

>>20997661
>no fearless icon
Which is why cultists love having a fearless leader join them and give them fearlessness (check USR).

That, and FNP slaanesh icon is better than the armor save they never got, which can add a cover save to it, making them super capable at being a autogun line.

5 points for a str3 shot hitting 50% of the time, makes them worthwhile.

>> No.20997726

Thoughts on this Khorne Lord?

Khorne Jugger Lord: 180 pts
-Mark of Khorne
-Juggernaut
-Axe of Blinding Fury
-Sigil of Corruption
-Gift of Mutation

Gonna run him with either Bikes or Spawn, probably unmarked to save points.

>> No.20997727

I very much like the Scrolls of Magnus. Would like to give them to Ahriman.

>> No.20997730

>>20994306

>> No.20997734

Another go at a 1kpts Undivided list:

HQ:

Chaos Lord, MoN, Burning Brand = 110pts

Elites:

Helbrute = 105pts

Troops:

7 Plague Marines, 2xPlasma = 198pts + Rhino 35pts

10 Chaos Marines, 2xMelta, CCW, MoK, Power Axe = 215pts + Rhino 35pts

20 Chaos Cultists, Autoguns, 2xStubbers = 119pts

Heavy Support:

2xObliterators, MoN = 152pts

about 41 pts left to play with. Think I´ll give it to the Lord for a Sigil and a CCW.

>> No.20997739

>>20997690
How the hell are they getting the Slaanesh Icon? They can't take Icons, and neither can the Independent Characters.

And yes, i know that ICs give Fearless to their units, but that just means you're blowing an HQ slot to babysit an Autogun line.

>> No.20997782

>>20997734
Throw a Reaper Autocannon on the Helbrute. Leave the heavy armor to the Melta squad and Oblits, go transport hunting with him.

>> No.20997805

>> No.20997841

>>20997739
Derped. Thought I saw the icon entry there.

>> No.20997870 [DELETED] 

>>20997805
>mods are asleep

>> No.20998049

>>20997870
They have the option to show if someone is banned or not.

>> No.20998097

What's the best load-out for terminators? Combi-plasma and autocannon, flamers, or just combi-meltas?

>> No.20998142

>>20998097
Meltas are still a solid choice, although i think Plasmas are worth looking at.

Since Icons no longer prevent us from scattering, the plasma option makes sure you'll be in range to shoot even if you scatter away from the target. If you drop down outside of 12" and anticipate being shot a bunch, you can burn the plasmas closest to the enemy (so it matters less if they die when they get shot), then walk into Rapid Fire range with the survivors the next turn.

>> No.20998152

>>20998097
Whatever you take, always take at least one chainfist.

There was a guy playing CSMs against Orks, and he was bragging about his Khornate terminators, all with dual lightning claws, and how they'd tear through any Orks they'd find. The Ork player charged them with a single Killa Kan and they spent the rest of the game getting tarpitted by a 40-point walker because they couldn't even scratch the armor.

>> No.20998167

>>20998097
Keep the terminators cheap and to the point.

Slaanesh Marks, Twin Claws, Icon of Excess, one termi with Chainfist, veterans of the long war.

Or perhaps if you hate durability, but want them cheap-ish just run marks of khorne on 5 of them in a raider with power axes or power fists.

They are meant for melee or combi weapons. Fortunately, combi weapons are bastardized because there are always better options for such a unit. Feel No Pain or Mark of Nurgle/Khorne is great. If you want a small unit that love chainfists, mark of tzeentch them for that 4++ save.

>take allied flamers of tzeentch if you want classic termicide units teleporting in and meltaraping things, these guys do it a little better imo

>> No.20998184

>>20998152
A note on this: Normal Termies can't take a special melee weapon AND a combi, they have to choose.

The Champ on the other hand, can take both for a few more points (3 extra for Chainfist, 2 for Combi). So if you want an all-combi squad with a Chainfist, take it on the champ. Plus, that allows you to Look Out Sir wounds away from the Fist.

>> No.20998208

BIG QUESTION TIME:

Do i get a second Forgefiend or a Predator to fill out my last HS slot?

Fiend throws out more than twice as many shots, but Pred costs 35 pts less, has more armor, higher BS, and is firing Lascannons.

>> No.20998282

>>20998208
If you spread your firepower types then you are fit for balance. If the rest of the list is very linear on what it kills well, and leaves a gap. Have the choice fill that gap.

>> No.20998329

>>20998282
Here is my list, assuming the Forgefiend. Its for a local tournament.

HQ

Bike Lord: 200
- Mark of Nurgle
- Blight Grenades
- Melta Bombs
- Chaos Bike
- Sigil of Corruption
- Power Axe
- Gift of Mutation
- MURDER SWORD

Troops


Plague Marines: 248
- +2 Dudes
- 2 Meltaguns
- Power Axe
- Gift of Mutation
- Rhino


Plague Marines: 248
- +2 Dudes
- 2 Meltaguns
- Power Mace
- Gift of Mutation
- Rhino


Plague Marines: 248
- +2 Dudes
- 2 Flamers
- Power Fist
- Gift of Mutation
- Rhino

Fast Attack:

Heldrake: 170

Chaos Bikers: 185
- +3 dudes
- 2 Meltaguns
- Power Fist
- Gift of Mutation

Heavy Support

Forgefiend: 175
Forgefiend: 175

Havoks: 201
- +2 dudes
- 4 Missile Launchers
- Flakk Missiles

Total: 1850

>> No.20998345

>>20998329
Looks fine to me. Though if you go with a predator, save points for putting fists on the axe and mace guys.

You have +2 strength in the form of grenades for everything that you would need +2 strength for. Fists always go with plague marines.

>> No.20998376

Going to take this list for a spin tomorrow, can it be improved at all?

Demon Prince, MoN, Black Mace, Wings and Armour - 265

Hellbrute, autocannon, scourge - 120

20 cultists, 2 HS, autoguns - 118

20 cultists, 2 flamers - 100

10 Chaos Marines, 2 Melta, MoN, Champion w/ Combi Melta and Fist - 225

5 Bikers, 2 Melta, MoN, Champion w/ Combi Melta - 170

Total - 998

>> No.20998392

>>20998167
If I take the slaanesh termies, whould I give the champion both a chain fist and a lightning claw? or just the one fist and a ranged weapon?

>> No.20998397

>>20998376
10 cultist side 1 flamer
30 cultist side 3 stubber+rifles

3 bikers, remove combi weapon, let him be the one who takes the guy who dies first in front. (Like havocs, need ablative wounds or you lose special gunners, in this case the meltas are the guns and the speed is the long range so think of them as havocs)

>> No.20998406

>>20998392
Champ will always issue challenges. A pair of claws would be best IMO. Chain fist on another model, and claws on the rest.

>> No.20998408

>>20998376
I like it. I think it has all the right guns where they need to be.

I think it could be marginally improved by replacing the cultist blobs with their weight in marines, that's a flavor thing though.

I'm also not convinced by the validity of the helbrute. fire frenzy is a lot better than it used to be and is actually useful now, but I think other models in that point range can outperform it, again, I'm sure because its autocannon and scourge, you're using it because you have the model. I imagine the old metal dread.

I'm not sure the aspiring champion in the marine squad needs a fist. 3 melta shots should suffice for any anti tank requirements, and depending on your meta, he may rather have a power weapon that will allow him to swing at initiative.

all in all it should perform. there's very little at 1,000 points that will handle the bike squad before they can melta, or handle the demon prince at all.

you might have trouble with a tau army that tries to railgun him to death as he is no longer an eternal warrior, but if you use terrain and flying correctly, he can be killing those annoying broadsides on turn 2 with ideal deployment.

>> No.20998422

>>20998397
If my sums are right I can take 5 bikers if I rearrange the cultists like that and drop the CM on the biker champion.

>> No.20998438

>>20998422
Yeah, sounds good. Though might I stress that a combi flamer will always have a use and it will always hit, for a one shot.
>you hardly ever get to use a flamer twice from one unit anyway

>> No.20998460

>>20998408
Thanks for the advice. My local group are really casual and fun (their rules are no obvious tourney level lists and everything painted as soon as possible) so a few subpar choices won't be too painful.

Will report back on how it does. I'm taking some Tau stuff in case I need allies for a bigger game.

>> No.20998489

WHO THE FUCK DID THIS?!

>> No.20998506

Chaos lord with MOK, bp daemon weapons Juggernaut, charging can get a total of

13 str 6 ap 2 attacks at ws5
12 attacks in term armor

>> No.20998512

>>20998506
>you could buy a squad of terminators that get more attacks with more wounds to remove for the same price

>> No.20998549

>>20998489
NOOOOOOOOOOO

>> No.20998555

>>20998506
No steeds when you have terminator armor

>> No.20998561

>>20998512
as far as i can tell, chaos lords cant take daemon weapons

>> No.20998574

>>20998561
disregard this, just remembered that some of the artefacts are daemon weps

>> No.20998589

2500 points list

Typhus - 230
Daemon prince - 260
MoN, wings, armor, gift, black mace

chosen of nurgle - 200
melta's dreadclaw (65)

Terminators - 227
MoK, fits, combi-melta, reaper, vets

Two Squads of:
8x Plague Marines /w Champion – 265 points
2x Plasma Guns, Veterans of the long war, Gift of mutation Champ: Power Fist

100 Zombies (10, 10 man squads) - 500points

Two Forgefiend – 400points (200 each)
3x Ectoplasma Cannon

ZOMBIE NOM

>> No.20998602

3 Maulerfiends = 375
3 Brutes = 315
12 nurgle bike sorcerers = 95(x2=190)
120 points in cultists
1000 points (double for 2k list)

Zilla 1k list.

>> No.20998603

>>20998589
I don't understand your image

>> No.20998611

>>20998555
That's why the attacks go down.

>> No.20998615

>>20998602
>2 sorcerers

>> No.20998624

>>20998489
THE FAGGOT WHO POSTED THE DAEMONETTE PICTURE.

>> No.20998632

>>20998589
Why 3x Ectoplasm on the Fiends? That significantly decreases their anti-vehicle potential, and drops their anti-air (which they are actually decent at) to zero. Plus, with only 3 HP Gets Hot could be a problem.

I'd say take the extra Ectoplasma, but leave the Autocannons.

>> No.20998651

>>20998406
The problem is claws are only AP3, which makes challenges versus 2+ saves hell. Then again I'm most likely running my MoN termintors with Typhus and he can take care of the challenge. It's either chainfist or twin claws, tough choice.

Is the Reaper Autocannon worth it?

>> No.20998653

>>20998512
Eh, its a bit of a toss up. Termies get better saves that do not rely on another unit and versatility. Lord hits better and harder, and is much faster. And upgrading the Termies brings the margin of the attacks and wounds closer.

>> No.20998660

>>20998651
The Reaper is only good if you know you'll need them to pop a transport, and you can't rely on getting into effective Combi-melta range. If your meta loves Parking Lot lits, its a good choice. If your primary targets are going to be infantry, a combi-plasma would be better.

>> No.20998696

>>20998632
No one locally uses flyers. It's somewhat of an unwritten rule. Plus nothing is stopping me from changing to the cannons if need be.

Thanks for your input however.

>> No.20998714

Rolled 5, 2 = 7

Op here, let's see if this thread appeased the gods.

>> No.20998730

Rolled 6, 1 = 7

>>20998714
Sweet thanks Slaanesh, let's go Nurgle, whatch'ya got.

>> No.20998781

>>20998714
>>20998730
Nurgle blesses this thread! Praise Papa Nurgle!

>> No.20998820

Can you give Chaos Termies power lances? Cause Im thinking 5 Khorne Terminators with Lances in a Dreadclaw would be a pretty cheap but devastating assault unit.

Also can you put Mutilators in Dreadclaws/storm Eagles/Spartan assault tanks?

>> No.20998828

I'm stuck between choices. should I make my chaos warband Word bearers or Iron warriors?

I mean, the new techsmith (if that was the name ) looks pretty badass, but then again, so does the Dark apostle.

>> No.20998834

>>20998820
They do not specify what power weapons they are armed with, so yeah, you can throw on power lances.

>> No.20998835

>>20998651
>Is the Reaper Autocannon worth it?
on terminators? generally, no.

>>20998660
what he said.

one turn of double tapping combi plasma is more useful than a reaper, you'll either be deep striking or busing in a landraider, so getting that extra range on a strength 7 shot isn't really a big deal, especially when you have contingencies like...

-you can take more powerful combi guns as standard loadout

-the squad will generally try to get stuck into close combat to abuse its 2+ armor save after it pops its load on its combi-weapon turn

-since the unit will ideally only shoot once or twice in the game before charging or running down fleeing enemy with bolters, the heavy flamer is a safer choice for charging in and being a nuisance.

autocannons are gorgeous, but when every terminator has the option to be a plasma gun one turn in the game, its not very attractive on 'nators.

>> No.20998851

>>20998820
Yes, but lances are pretty crap. They're a Power Sword that gets +1S on the charge, but becomes AP4 in subsequent turns. May as well just pony up points for a Lightning Claw, which gives much better results.

>> No.20998876

>>20997726
Can't use the axe if he is unmarked.

Fucking expensive. Very killing, but it is fucking expensive. As the dice gods roll, you will turn him into a spawn the very first sergeant he eats.

>> No.20998890

>>20998329
Missile launchers on havocs are way too expensive. Especially with flakk missiles. For what you are paying you could get 2 Havoc units with 4 autocannons each. Incidentally, due to number of shots, they should be better than your missile launchers at taking down fliers.

>> No.20998903

>>20998696
Trading the cannons for ectoplasm is still awful.

If you need AP2 shooting, there are plenty of places you can bring plasma.

>> No.20998910

>>20998890

They're a bit worse but not that much.

3x5 havocs with 4 autocannons each = 345 points, 24 shots at BS1, 4 hits against flyers

2x5 havocs with 4 flakk missile launchers each = 350 points, 8 shots at BS4, 5,33 hits against flyers

>> No.20998940

>>20998876
>Can't use the axe if he is unmarked.
No, as in i run the Bikes/Spawn unmarked. Of course the Lord has a mark.

>> No.20999017

So a conservatively upgraded noise marines squad with 5 extra blokes (to unlock blastmasters), 8 sonic blasters, a blastmaster and a doomsiren on the champion riding a rhino sets you back 284 points. This is without close combat weapons and veterans of the long war (+20 points), without the FNP icon (+30 points) and without a cc weapon for the champ (+15-+25). Its also without the havoc launcer + gargoyle upgrade for the rhino (dont even know if that will be a thing but whatever).

Anyway, a fully equiped squad will set you back around 350, a functional one 284. I'm confused why everyone is so hyped over these. Compared to ye olde tacticals, which isnt a great unit to begin with, they seem to pay almost twice as much to not be twice as effective.

I was looking to run a force along the outlines of lord on steed (mos), full unit of bikers (mos and icon), 2-3 units of noise marines to secure midfield and then fire support in the form of whatever I math out to be the best vs both air and ground vehicles. Thing is, with the pricetag on noise marines I sincerely doubt that would work =/

Any thoughts?

>> No.20999050

>>20999017
Given Noise Marines are shooty now don't buy CCWs or Veterans.

>> No.20999052

>>20999017
don't waste your points on doom siren and so many sonic blasters. You're not going to be runing head first into combat so Doom Siren's template range is a waste and balsters are cool but suck if you move and shot with them

>> No.20999104

>>20999052
Then the question quickly becomes why not just run regular CSM with a mark? Blastmasters with ap3 and ignore cover are cute but even if you essentially buy the squad for that you spend 245 (5 bodies, blastmaster, rhino). The (up to) 24 points you spend on sonic bolters after don't seem to make or break the squad's price tag at that point.

>> No.20999111

>>20998589

>100 zombies

>> No.20999121

>>20998489
Khorne has spurned us as cowards and fools! Our wrath was not great enough! WE MUST RAGE HARDER, BROTHERS!

>> No.20999131

>>20999017
You will take a casualty or two. Leave the fearless units useless +1ld champion model bare and in front to get killed. 127 points for 6 guys, 5 sonic blasters and small enough to hide behind a rhino from anything but indirect fire. Mobile rhino and unit with 10 shots, sit still for 15 and the champs bolter.

Rhino only needs a combi bolter to make up for its cost, at 40 points. Havoc launcher if you want it to get more attention would be fine. Though if you're aggressive give it blades instead, and go tank shock happy with it. Either way keep the rhino to one offensive upgrade only but give it one.

Bikes are great, even from a firepower standpoint. 1 combi bolter per 20 points inside 12" is having 1.76 or so hits per model. Sonic blasters get 2 hits per 3 shots. That's still acceptable anti infantry firepower. Have the guys HOLD their meltaguns, and you have balance between troops and fast attack with firepower.

Though I suggest a Heldrake or two because of air power.

>> No.20999157

>>20999131
Thanks for the reply, funny how MSU seems viable here while its fluffy and I plain ignore it :D

I agree on bikes with you as well, and converting some jet bikes would be awesome.

I dont like the dinobot feel of helldrakes, not sure how to solve anti air yet. Guessing havocs / forgefiends and IG allies is my best bet if I go dinoless.

All I'd need now is a bailout cc specialist squad and I'll be set.

>> No.20999177

Is there some legion that is commonly know for using bikes? I know NL infiltrate, as well a AL, IW are siege masters, but even in the zerks legion I didnt see bikes as something usual.

>> No.20999186

So... anyone made yet an armybuilder or whatever?

>> No.20999190

>>20999177

Emperor's Children used to have doomrider as an SC, so there's that.

Also World Eaters often rode on jetbikes during the crusade.

>> No.20999204

>>20999190
Thanks

>> No.20999213

>>20999177
not a Legion but the Red Corsiars use bikes a fair bit.

Also Huron is pretty cool now and gives things infiltrate.

>> No.20999413

FUCK THIS BOOK! FUCK IT!

I'm pinning for Sorcerers to DEBUFF shit like there's no tomorrow (Nurgle, Biomancy, Telepathy, fuck everything) and Mastery Level 3. THREE MOTHERFUCKER, THREE. IT WAS THREEEEEEEE.

But then the Warpsmith comes and whisper in my ear "Look, I have a 2+/4++, 5 S5 AP2 attacks, more guns than you have fingers to count, I curse shit and I SHATTER DEFENSE MOTHERFUCKER!"

And right after that, the Chaos Lord kicks the wall down and shout "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT YOUR 5 S5 AP2 ATTACKS, NOW LOOK AT MY 13 S6 AP2 ATTACKS! I'M ON A JUGGERNAUT!" Also, MURDER SWORD.

I could use my entire point allowance on HQ on not have enough. WHO THE FUCK DECIDED THAT 2 HQ WAS ENOUGH? WHO?

And that's before going to FS or HS. Fuck that shit, the predator can have more guns than a fucking BATTLEWAGON. And it's ON FIRE.

>> No.20999431

>>20999413
>I could use my entire point allowance on HQ on not have enough. WHO THE FUCK DECIDED THAT 2 HQ WAS ENOUGH? WHO?


You can have 4 you know with 2 FoC

>> No.20999463

>>20999050

This.

Noise Marines are customizable. 10 guys with bolters swapped for CCW's, FNP icon, Veterans of the Long War and Champion with Doom Siren, Meltabombs and power weapon in a rhino is 285 points.

On the other hand 8 sonic blasters, blastmaster, 10 guys, FNP icon and champion with power weapon and meltabombs is 284 points. These don't need a rhino or CC upgrades.

>> No.20999472

>>20999017
It's not 100% clear that you actually need 10 noise marines to take a blastmaster. If they meant that, why didn't they use the same wording as cultists or terminator upgrades? Another (perfectly valid, given that there are multiple meanings of "per" in English) reading would let you take 1 blastmaster with 5-10 marines, and a second with 11-20 marines. This makes the squad a lot more cost effective.

Damn thing needs an FAQ though, for this and for the Champion's weapons.

>> No.20999483

Guys help

What weapon can I pull off as a manreaper on my terminator lord now

Oh god Im so stuck here

>> No.20999523

>>20999431
Yeah, I know. The thing is, those HQ don't mix. Warpsmiths become more awesome in number because 4 of them basically means your opponet has no cover on his side of the table.

Sorcerer do the same because Enfeeble and Gift of Contagion stacks with themselves and more Telepathy means lockdown on the ennemy.

Lords, not so much because Chaos Artefact are unique and costly. But still, having one Axe/Jugger sweeper, one MURDER missile, one Burning Brand and one Black Mace sweeper means the ennemy has basically four though guys to kill, everyone one of them able to destroy whole squads if left unchecked.

So, the number of slots doesn't matter, it's having to chose between three perfectly good options that kills me.

>> No.20999538

>>20999472
spamming 6 man squads with 1 blastmasters (and sblasters if you find yourself with points to spare) would definately look a lot more viable.

>>20999523 Am I the only one that thought shatter defenses should work on bought terrain as well? I mean wtf, if buying terrain is possible, why isn't there a "counter" to doing so?

>> No.20999582

>>20999017
Conservatively upgraded my ass. You are spending way too fucking much on the squad, thats why it sucks.

5 Noise Marines with the doom Siren costs 110 points. Thats 5 fearless marines with a marine killing template. Thats what makes it worth. The sonic blasters are arguable upgrades because of the salvo rule, and the blastermaster is way too damned expensive.

>> No.20999594

>>20999431

So I can build 4 Chaos Lords as the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse?!?!?!?!?

>> No.20999608

>>20999413
5 S5 AP2 shots?

>> No.20999609

>>20999483
Murder sword. It's what I'm using mine for anyway.
It has a blade, just like a sword, and nothing says "deathbringer" like a scythe.

>> No.20999630

>>20999609
And also, you mark your enemy for death with the murder sword. Imagine a nurgle lord on a bike, swiftly riding up to his target like the horseman of Death himself.

>> No.20999632

Guys. I was modeling my plague bearer models. Primed them black, then went about my business. Later I put my hand down on the table in the knife - jab.

Jab so hard the plague sword went through my palm and hit a bone. My modeling hand is out. THE GODS HAVE BETRAYED ME

>> No.20999645

Was planning on adding a unit of Noise Marines (I have one 1k Sons unit, and several PM and 'zerker units), but I'm not sure anymore.

Originally, I intended to put in all the bells and whistles (seeing as I'd only really pull them out for Apoc), with somic blasters and BP/CCW (rule of cool, yo). But now I've noticed that it's either a CCW for X points, or trading the bolter for a sonic blaster.

Thoughts?

>> No.20999655

>> No.20999660

>>20999632

Be sure it doesn't get infected.

Though perhaps that can't be helped.

>> No.20999686

>>20999609
>2012
>not having a t-shirt with that picture on it

>> No.20999708

>>20999686
I do actually. Emprah protects!

>> No.20999717

>>20999660
>laughing papa nurgle

>> No.20999725

>>20999630
Yeeeeeeeeeessssss

>> No.20999777

>rhino with havoc launcher, 2 combi bolters and 5 marines inside, 2 can fire out
>anti infantry similar to noise marines
>take quad lascannon predators for 140
>awesome anti tank
>tank army

>> No.20999849

>>20999686
>>20999708

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FH-q0I1fJY

>>20999717

>> No.20999878 [DELETED] 

Murder sword's theme.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb7LvUnx_8s

>> No.20999918

Rolled 33

>>20999878

>not this

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjdRtCLoaJ8

>> No.20999957

>>20999594

So Khorne is War, Nurgle is Pestilence.

Is Slaanesh Death or Famine? Which is Tzeentch?

I guess Famine really doesn't make any sense for Slaanesh, but then, it doesn't really fit on Tzeentch either.

Bah

>> No.20999973

hey /tg/ i am kind of new to the new Codex, so uh I tried to make a army list but I'm not too sure how good it is, I tried to include the new models as much as possible, in fact I think it only uses the new models.

I would really appreciate some feedback since its not the greatest. Oh by the way I will be mostly versing Tau and maybe some Space Marines.

Oh and I probably stuffed up the calculations, so uh forgive me if it does not look right.

30x Cultists with Autoguns, x3 Heavy Stubbers w/ mark of nurgle = 232pts
30x Cultsts with Autopistols + CCW, x3 Flamers w/ Mark of nurgle = 205pts
Total = 439pts

x1 Rhino w/ havoc launcher krak missiles, combi bolter w/ gargoyles soul blaze 52pts

x10 Chosen CSM w/ meltaguns x5, frag grenades, Champion of Chaos, Icon of Flamer, mark of Tzeentch. 260pts

Dark Apostle w/ Murder Sword, Mark of Khorne, Veteran of the Long War, Champion of Chaos, Sigil of Corruption, Gift of Mutation pts 150

Helbrute - 105pts

pts in total 1004

>> No.20999978

>>20999957
I think Death and Famine would be Nurgle as well.
If you're doing the "Four Horsemen" theme, You'd probably have to have 3 of Nurgle and 1 of Khorne. Not that that's a bad thing.

>> No.21000001

>>20999973
so your plan is your Dark apostle is to die from str8 due to not being able to join any of your units?

>> No.21000016

>>20999973
If you're up against Tau, numbers are nice, but the MoN aren't going to do much against S5 weapons. You'd be better off leaving the markless to save a good deal of points.
Mark of Tzeentch and Icon of Flamer are a bit expensive on Chosen. Your meltaguns are enough to deal with most things and the Icon of Flamer would only apply to your 5 remaining bolters and your bolt pistols.

I'd recommend taking something like Berzerkers w/ Chainaxes against Tau (They negate the 4+ armour and will take out crisis suits no problem) or just a normal squad of marines w/ vets, ccw and a heavy weapon.

>> No.21000021

>>20999978
Going by traditional mythology there is no Pestilence though, it's conquest.
And conquest isn't too nurgly.
Not the guy you replied to though.

>> No.21000034

>>20999978
Nurgle is also god of life and joy.

>> No.21000050

>>21000021
Conquest could easily fall under Tzeentch or Slaanesh to a lesser extent.
So, if you want all 4 gods, it would be:
War - Khorne
Conquest - Tzeentch
Death - Nurgle
Famine - Slaanesh

Famine would just be the leftover one that Slaanesh gets because there isn't a horseman of Depravity/Excess

>> No.21000074

>>20999413
where do you get 13 attacks on a chaos lord from? I only make like 7.

Its 3 base, +1 for k mark, +1 for mount, and + 2 for combat familiar. What am I missing out on?

>> No.21000075

>>21000050
Famine is closer to Nurgle's realm, bro

All the gods deal with Death, but he's the only one who features famine.

>> No.21000078

>>21000050
Tzeench as fuck, yes. "just as planned" etc.

>> No.21000093

>>21000034
<Citation needed> and I do not mean fannon.

but in reality the 4 horsemen would be

War - Khorne
Conquest - Khorne
Death - Nurgle
Famine - Nurgle.

>> No.21000102

>>21000016
Ah thanks a lot that was helpful, i will rework it, so I can crush some filthy xeno scum

>> No.21000106 [DELETED] 

>>>/trv/640215

>> No.21000107

>>21000074
The axe. 3 base, 1 for 2 CCW, 1 for juggernaut, 2 for Rage, 1D6 for the axe. For a maximum of 13 strikes.

>> No.21000128

>>21000093

Not that guy but the chaos daemons codex states that more than once.

>> No.21000138

Nurgle is based on the Babylonian god of Nergal.

Who happens to be...

The god of Plague, Fire, and War. He represents to season of death, high summer noon in the hottest summer days. The god of war and pestilence, he is depicted as a lion of death.

Nergal's planet/"star" is Mars.. He rules over the equivalent of hell and runs a government of the dead.

... ... all those lion statues you see that are depicted as guardians/gods in babylonian artwork? Nergal statuary.

In short. Nergal is all the war & firey aspects of Khorne. The plague aspects of Nurgle. The 'order' aspects of the Emperor (residing over the dead.)

>> No.21000154 [DELETED] 

>>21000138

War - Nurgle.
Conquest - Nurgle.
Death - Nurgle
Famine - Nurgle.

Khorne is simply an aspect of Nergal. Nurgle being the plague side, Khorne being the war side.

>> No.21000173 [DELETED] 

>> No.21000177 [DELETED] 

>> No.21000188 [DELETED] 

>>21000106
>>21000173
>>21000177

Spammer pls go.

>> No.21000190

>> No.21000192

>>21000138

War - Nurgle.
Conquest - Nurgle.
Death - Nurgle
Famine - Nurgle.

Khorne is simply an aspect of Nergal. Nurgle being the plague side, Khorne being the war side. Basically Nergal is both gods rolled together on many levels - with some god of the underworld tossed in.

>> No.21000206

>>20997727
You can't, which sucks dongs.

>>20997734
I'd give the helbrute a plasma cannon (or leave the multi-melta).

>>20999186
Yes. I posted it above, but here it is:

++ARMY BUILTER FOR EXCEL++
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ym53dz3tkn9md3a

Please report any inaccuracies you find.

>> No.21000213

>>21000192
War - Nurgal
Conquest - Nurgal
Death - Nurgal
Famine - Nurgal

>> No.21000217

>>21000190
>>21000177
>>21000173
>>21000106
So, when are you getting a girlfriend, son?

>> No.21000219

Considering that as it turns out, Cultists are compeltely worthless except to sit on a point, what about taking a nice little heretic IG allies detachment and plopping down an infantry platoon with heavy weapons and a cheap HQ to sit on a point?

>> No.21000226

>>20998489

Nooooooo!

Thats sad, loss of epic

>> No.21000228

>>21000138

>Nergal

That sounds heretical. Awfully close to Sergal.

>> No.21000243

>>21000226

We also lost the Tzeentch 999 99. Thanks to that spammer posting a link to a Thai hookers thread on another board...

>> No.21000251

>>21000107
what page is the 'axe' on? From your description I assume its a daemon weapon, but the only 'axe' I can see in the whole dex is a chainaxe, which sure doesnt give +d6 attacks

>> No.21000256

>>21000213
You can do that for every god.

War - Tzeentch (all according to plan)
Conquest - Tzeentch (idem)
Death - Tzeentch (idem)
Famine - Tzeentch (idem)

War - Slaanesh (killing shit is awesome)
Conquest - Slaanesh (gotta love feeling the superiority)
Death - Slaanesh (it's Lucius all over again)
Famine - Slaanesh (I'M STARVING, IT'S A GOOD PAIN)

War - Khorne (duh)
Conquest - Khorne (duh)
Death - Khorne (duh)
Famine - Khorne (well, all the farmers are duhd)

>> No.21000264

>>21000251
Axe of Blind Fury, indeed a daemon weapon.

>> No.21000265

>>21000228

Yes because the concept of Sergals existed 3000 years ago.

>> No.21000273

>>21000256
He said Nergal not Nurgle.

Khorn is an aspect of Nergal. As is Nurgle an aspect of Nergal.

Slaanesh and Tzeentch however are not.

>> No.21000279

>>21000264
oh, my bad, thx m8, may end up using that build

>> No.21000322

>>21000256
>Famine - Khorne (well, all the farmers are duhd)

>> No.21000324

wait wait wait

Can I take a defiler with:
>Reaper autocannon
>2 havoc launchers (one on arm, one from vehicle armory)
>a combi-bolter and a combi-melta
>warpflame gargoyles
>a battle cannon
>AND 2 powerfists?

Thats a daemonengine if ever there was one!

>> No.21000343

>>21000324
Well, yes you can. But since the havocs launchers can fire when the battle cannon does, it's a little pointless.

>> No.21000344

>>21000324
>fires battle cannon
>snap fires with everything else, blast/flame weapons cannot snapfire

>> No.21000351

>>21000343
It was obviously a negative. The Havoc can NOT fire when the battle cannon does.

>> No.21000364

>>21000344
>>21000343
then why not fire everything thats not the battle cannon? I feel like thats a good plan of action. 2 havoc launchers, 2 bolters, and a reaper autocannon is a pretty scary load for something like ork boyz

>> No.21000376

>>21000364
SHIT I just realized that rhinos are now terrifying, with three weapons and soul blaze they can level small squads if you get lucky!

>> No.21000377

>>21000364
>over 200 points
>fit a dakkapredator in there instead

>> No.21000379

>>21000376
2 Combi Bolters and a Havoc Launcher is cool.

>> No.21000382

>>21000324
>>21000376
See >>20990160

>> No.21000392

>>21000376
>soul blaze
>do anything

>> No.21000406

>>21000392
>soul blaze
>kill one model
>paid for itself
>kill a good model
>paid for itself several times over

>> No.21000407

>>21000377
yeah...I guess your right, Im just looking for an excuse to put my old defiler back out on the field.

>> No.21000416

>>21000392
5 points.
That's a cultist with an autogun.
Killing ANYTHING makes the points back.

>> No.21000418

>>21000377
>>21000407
Hell, you mean two dakkapreds.

>> No.21000419

>>21000392
For 5 points on an anti-infantry, it may do something. It can help at solving problems like veterans or pathfinders camping cover with a 2+.

>> No.21000426

>>21000407
Field what the gods tell you to field, not because something is more efficient.

I use 30 rough riders. Why? Because 30 rough riders are more khornite than valks and hounds. I field them because I want to, few others do, and it fits chaos guard.

My CSM? a hodge podge of renegades, some spawn, cultists, lead by a small iron warrior contingency. Each marine is armed or designed differently. Just becausee "X" marine type will be THE BEST - doesn't mean I take it. I take what suits my play style and RP.

>> No.21000434

>>21000426
what sucks is I dont have the cash to just buy things willy nilly. If I buy something and it sucks, Im fucked.

>> No.21000443

>>21000426
That sounds pretty cool but don't you lose all the time? Losing is okay, losing all the fucking time, not so much.

>> No.21000458

>>21000407
>>21000407
>>21000407
>come in from reserves outside 48" of his anti tank guns
>gets 5++
>battle cannon does all the damage it needs to do
>he outflanks/deep strikes
>suddenly flamer and charge
>flyer goes after it
>gets a twin-linked AC spitting at it
>it gets stunned/shaken, laughs
>gets glanced by a unit or two
>recovers hull point next turn, laughs

>> No.21000459

>>21000434
Personnally, if I had to use a defiler, I would go for the full CC path. 3 power fists, one power scourge. 5 S10 attacks plus a WS debuff that may allow you to hit on 3+. And you can fire the cannon when you're just advancing.

>> No.21000480

>>21000459
Better off with maulerfiends, they move 12".

>> No.21000495

>>21000480
They also don't shot, have 1 less HP and half the attacks. Not the same use at all.

>> No.21000509

Can a unit with a jetbike join units of bikers? I was wondering in the case of a Lord of Tzeentch on a disc(jetbike). Could I put him in with a squad of chaos bikers?

>> No.21000511

Defilers are so useless now

>> No.21000518

>>21000495
>hurts something like they normally do
>gets +1 str 8 hit at ap2
>hits with all their attacks
>gets +2 str 8 ap 2 hits instead
>they just hit, no rolling to hit
>charge, hit 3 times, get 5 rolls to wound/pen(two armorbane

>> No.21000524

Why is it necessary to sticky this thread?
Can't we just sticky a 40k general or something instead?

>> No.21000531

>>21000524
This is the 4th thread. I assume we've been well over 2800 posts within the week, five autosaged threads.
(It would be well into near autosaging thread #8 by now)

>> No.21000538

>>21000518
Huh, the melta hit are on the SAME model. So, if you pulp some infantry, you'll pulp the same number of dudes but harder. It's only really useful against armor, when the defiler is better against heavy infantry.

>> No.21000539

>>21000524
>/40k/
>40k general

>> No.21000554

>>21000524
>40k general

you mean clusterfuck general?

>> No.21000560

I have 200€ to spend.
No Idea what to buy.

I already have the Dark Vengeance Set a Vindicator and 7 Plaguemarines.

>> No.21000563

>>21000538
Take two brutes then.

>> No.21000567

>>21000539
Yeah totally.
That's why it's called /40k/ and not /tg/, right guys?
And don't even start with 4chan history lessons.
Nobody cares.

>> No.21000575

>>21000560
Aquire more chaos terminators.

>> No.21000579

>>21000567
Do you complain about 2hu threads on /jp/ too?

>> No.21000584

>>21000579
I don't visit /jp/.

>> No.21000593

>>21000524
Same reason we had a D&D 5E sticky : the mod got fed up with hordes of autosaging threads on the same topic.

>> No.21000596

>>21000567
So edgy. Show the world how rebellious you are by saging a sticky.

>>21000511
Indeed. Along with princes. No reason not to take helbrutes or dinobots now.

>> No.21000601

>>21000584
>saging a sticky

>> No.21000602

>>21000567
Why should we care about what you want?

>> No.21000615

>>21000596
Yet you got mad and replied.
Ya'll guardsmen posting in a Slaanesh thread.

>> No.21000621

>>21000443

Not really.

Guard list consists of the following elements.

-Straken (marine model as renegade leader, Strakens stats > marines.)
-Primarus

-Full Psyker battlesquad w/ Primarus in them (tzeentch squad)

-Two vet squads armed with meltas, carapace, demo charges. (These guys are my primary fighters)
-base-kit platoon/s (# depending on point-limit), if i feel dick-ish and don't wanna win, chenkov conscript spam
-include heavy weapons for defense (usually 3x2 mortar, 3x2 autocannon, 3x1 missile)

-30 rough riders

-1-3 artillery pieces (depending on points/set-up)

+Allies
(Demons or CSM, depending on mood and point limit.)


------

Generally this: I deploy everything nearest to enemy concentration. Straken will stride out with the standard guardsmen, marching into the enemy. They will die, I am sure, but they serve one purpose.

Force the enemy to react and defend. The long-range HWeps begin picking off choice targets. Psyker & his bros cause as much havok as possible.

The 30 rough riders are a cheap, 300-ish point distraction/one hit weapon. I either slaughter the foe or cause him to over-react. Sometimes I will have them ride along side the assaulting blob squads of khornite guardsmen.

IF the enemy deep-strikes or flanks or drives up to my objectives, 6 in cover BS4 meltas say hi. Along with hweps.

Allies: CSM usually lead the charge, providing a screen or a core.

Daemons usually fuck their defenses up. Imagine 100+ guarsmen charging across, 30 horsemen of khorne riding in full rage with mogul at you, heavy weapons raining down...and then bloodthirsters begin deep striking behind you.

You get the idea. I don't use air. I don't use tanks. I rarely use artillery and lightly then (usually colossus to counter scouts/fangs/etc.)

I do plan to ally a defiler someday but I'm already having like 20 different lists for 1.5-1.9k/2k because I own more than I can fit into most games.

>> No.21000626

>>21000615
>saging a sticky

>> No.21000649

>>21000602
You obviously do, since if you didn't you wouldn't reply.

>>21000601
The reason I use sage is not the one you think it is.

>> No.21000663

Know what I like about this codex? The fact taking them as allies in 1k can mean they can be 80% of your army and still function.

>> No.21000666

>>21000649
>You obviously do, since if you didn't you wouldn't reply.

That doesn't make any sense.

>The reason I use sage is not the one you think it is.

What reason do you have?

>> No.21000686

>>21000649
>SAGE MEANS I HATE SOMETHING

cool story

>> No.21000690

STOP FEEDING THE GODDAMN TROLL YOU TRIPLE SAVLARS.

>> No.21000693

Are Chain axes worth it?

>> No.21000699

>>21000690
But I want this thread to die. It has become much too bloated.

>> No.21000702

Hey guys, quick question:

Is there any reason I cant take a terminator lord with a daemonic mount? It only says that mounts are restricted to infantry, but terminators are still infantry, right?

>> No.21000710

>>21000693
not unless you're fighting something with a +4 save, in which case, yes, the are.

>> No.21000711

>>21000690
but its so fun to make him sage a sticky!

>> No.21000716

>>21000693
Chain Axes are 3 point power mauls without the strength bonus. Turn 50% chance armor saves to 0%.

>having a few to test it is fine, more if you prefer it

>>