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[ERROR] No.20866839 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

There's always two sides to every coin. Black and white, good and evil, light and dark. When it comes to cyberpunk, I realised that while I've got a clear picture of the rebellious, anti-authoritarian protagonists I can't really picture or put myself inside the head of the antagonists.

I mean, is "the man" really just a man, a slick fella in a sharp looking suit with a good head on his shoulders? I'm having difficulty picturing it or thinking of any motivation for such a character that isn't horribly childish. I'm looking for advice on how to represent and handle corporate-businessman-style villains in tabletop RPGs.

I'd also appreciate any sort of image dump related to these slick, silver-tongued businessmen. I really lack any inspiration for this sort of thing. I've got plenty of "PICK UP THAT CAN" near-future policemen and paramilitary soldiers but no corporate executives that fit that era.

>> No.20866859

>> No.20866869

nah, not that kind

just go and look for pics of 90s businesspeople.

>> No.20866874

>> No.20866898

Well, ideally you should never see the man. The Corporations have spokespersons and frontmen, as well as enforcers. But you don't see the management. Why should they appear in the public eye?

Also, their motivation is pretty simple. They probably have a more complex one that relates to their personal lives or something, but in terms of their company, if they're management they just want to see the company be succesful. Maybe they really did work their way up and want to keep their place, maybe they founded it, but either way they want to do a good job running it. And that means doing what the stockholders want, making higher profits and controlling more and more of the market.

>> No.20866926

That's certainly something I don't have any images of. Aren't there any near-future interpretations of such a thing? With so many sci-fi megacorporations around I'm shocked that none of them seem to ever go beyond the two-piece-suit.

>> No.20866936


that is all.

"jeunes cadres dynamiques" as we call them in France. Not that they ever existed in our country.

>> No.20866949

>having trouble coming up with businessman antagonists

>> No.20866961

Suits have been in style and more or less unchanged (barring some fairly minor details) since the early 20th century. Doesn't seem too far-fetched that they'd still be fashionable in a near-future sci-fi setting.

>> No.20866962

>> No.20866970

why should they? It's impersonal, hypocritically clean, seemingly non-threatening and genuine, but a symbol of plutocracy since the XIXth century.

Modifying significantly would make it loose a lot of its mystique.

>> No.20866975

In the end they're the guys who are responsible, aren't they? They're the guys who authorise the bull-dozing of apartment blocks that house hundreds in order to build their strip malls, they're the guys who are willing to do all sorts of dirty little things to get an edge. They're the guys at the highest level who are responsible, who make the bad things happen. Shouldn't a lot of these anti-authority characters be interested in putting an end to the bastards in management?

>> No.20866977

Jack Donaghy was the villain of my last campaign.

>> No.20867014

I guess you've got a point there. I just have some trouble connecting the real yuppies and corporate executives out there with the evil bastards that you find in -punk settings and American Psycho.

>> No.20867018

Stuff like the tie or pins change fairly often, and they might be wearing a headset or have integrated electronics depending on how near future. That stuff will change.

The real secret is that they aren't exactly responsible, at least how I play them. The entire corporation is basically a machine, yes? Workers often talk about being just another cog, at least as far as the company is concerned. And their bosses feel the same way, because they're middle management. The people at the highest level are still mostly cogs. They're part of the company, and they're doing their job. Sure, it might not all be "ethical" or "legal", but it's accepted practice, right? They're just doing what any executive would do in their position. They connive and plot, because they know everyone else is. They have to get ahead somehow, it's their job! If they don't the company will falter and the stockholders will have their heads.

>> No.20867021

>> No.20867032

I'm a fan of slightly changed versions of the classic suit.

Like the Merovingian's suit in the Matrix sequel. Jacket with no collar, just lapels, paired with a high collared shirt and an unusually knotted tie.

You know, similar enough to modern day styles not to seem like gimmicky sci-fi clothes, but different enough to evoke a sense of difference from the present.

>> No.20867042

Something like the Yotsuba group from death note?

>> No.20867053

>They're the guys at the highest level who are responsible, who make the bad things happen.
That's a conception that has more to do with common adventure stories than with the essence of cyberpunk. The point of The Man is that it's nobody in particular, it's a gestalt pattern that results from the indifference and greed of every member of society.

So, if you basically want to make an evil lich lord that looks like a businessman, at least be careful to actually make him look like a businessman, otherwise there's just no point in using The Man, even for cosmetic purposes.

>> No.20867070

All that he wanted to do was create a system to provide healthcare to the poor. Because he spoke with a thick Kenyan accent the pc's decided to shoot him in the head point blank with a high power shotgun

>> No.20867083

Did the party catch on that the BBEG was the president?

>> No.20867084

I dunno, I guess it depends. When I see a clean-shaven douchebag student wearing a two-piece-suit and a neat brushing in my shithole of a college, I slightly feel like punching his shit despite having no strong feelings towards the corporate establishment.

>> No.20867096

"Aliens" and "Do Androids Dream... Sheep" did it best: Ruthless idiots concerned with profit without having to stick their necks out. The idea of "sharp" businessmen is silly. Businessmen are by nature short-sighted, ambitious and disloyal. Often, psychopaths or sociopaths, or plain unaware of what's going on in the world around them.

>> No.20867103

That's the executive point of view though. It's quite easy for a down-trodden bastard with a chip on his shoulder to place the blame on the executive who signed his sister's death warrant in order to keep company secrets, secret.

He's going to have to eventually come face to face with that guy, if he doesn't get put down by the authorities before he achieves his goal. Or am I thinking about this the wrong way?

>> No.20867105

Cyberpunk is modern Feudalism, the Funds and Trusts who own the Economy are the new rulers. There is no law above them, no one to stop them. Their money makes everything move and never runs out. All souvereignty that mankind has won against its souvereigns is lost, since the mechanisms of money do not acknowledge their rulership over politics, even if it is obvious.

>> No.20867111

Only after they killed him was using pictures of him at a pretty young age to show what he looked like, In all honesty I just used Obama as a base for a really fun BBEG because the bad guy wasn't evil.

Mainly used it as a lesson that the pc is not always right.

>> No.20867138

It's more or less this. except that the down-trodden guy will sooner or later have to realize that there isn't just one single executive behind this, and that perhaps none of them were fully aware of the consequences.

>> No.20867166

Should I mention that the pc's also resulted in the loss of roughly a million people in about 6 months a couple "years" down the line because of the lack of decent healthcare for the poor.

>> No.20867169

That's fair enough, I guess. It's quite easy to push the button when you're not aware of the details and you're pushed to do it by circumstance.

At the risk of digging too deep, what would the ultimate goal of the down-trodden bastard be upon realising that the Man is not a single entity but rather a metaphor for human greed and indifference? How can anyone fight against something like that?

>> No.20867181

As one of those yuppies myself, I can assure you we're every bit as bad as American Psycho portrays us as. Maybe not murdering people left and right, but that was only Patrick. The rest of the shallow corporate bastards in that movie could be any one of my friends.

>> No.20867182


Hahahaha, butthurt progressive-marxist kiddies.

>> No.20867183

You want to fix the world, chummer? You're not a Punk yet. Come back when you're a cynic.

>> No.20867188

>> No.20867194

Do you sit around comparing your executive business cards and the extent of your bigotry?

>> No.20867208

depends on the character, of course.

A version that I like, would be something similar to the Punisher, with a soldier's mentality, he would try to kill every last wageslave that had to do with this, because he simply cannot give in and be as indifferent as they are. The Man is the enemy faction, the executives are its soldiers, they knew what they signed for when they got in, and they're going to get it.

>> No.20867234

It's a punk setting, right?
There is active malevolence in a Punk setting. It's not consciously evil, but they are hurting people and so on. And their allowed to do so because of the corruption in the government and the greed there and so on.
So fix that. Reform the government, protect the people, and do so directly if you can. That might mean sabotaging bulldozers or taking out mercenaries before they can kill innocent people.

>> No.20867250

>the Man is not a single entity but rather a metaphor for human greed and indifference? How can anyone fight against something like that?

By becoming an Avatar of Virtue, silly.

>> No.20867257

If you want to make him slightly sympathetic, give him a back story.

>Grew up in poverty/warzone
>Had to be hard/cold/calculating to survive, prosper
>Had soft spot for girl/partner/bff who he went through this with
>Got stabbed in the back by them

Enough to understand why he acts the way he does, without undermining his ability to do evil stuff or be the poor BBEG.

Just someone who's always played hardball, but with good reason.

>> No.20867263

I like that

>> No.20867269

Meh. Fancy business cards have declined somewhat since the 80s, but I did seriously have a conversation with a couple of my coworkers debating the merits of contrast stitching versus matching stitching on our leather briefcases.

I insist that contrast stitching brings out the detail, and lets someone see from across a meeting table that you do indeed have a high quality briefcase with stitched construction as opposed to the cheap glued together fake leather ones.

>> No.20867288

I don't even know where to begin to refute this. There's no word for this level of stupidity.

>> No.20867291

"Sympathetic" ought to be reserved for the lower level workers, the ones without real insight or knowledge. Dupes, basically, that are still in the way and impossible to avoid if you want to change anything or fight back.

>> No.20867295


>> No.20867302

If you kill the guy at the top, his replacement will do the same thing, just with extra security. That's how the system works.

>> No.20867308

Do you know the end scene of Fight Club? That, with the Zurich Orbital. Destroy all money.

>> No.20867316

Couldn't that signify a desperation to show the quality of your belongings? I mean, it IS desperation, but showing it might be seen as bad poker face.

>> No.20867322

Well, just take a look at what industrial music suggests we do:
>nothing, you've already lost, just roll into a ball and weep
>kill your TV and go on a killing spree. Not like it matters at all but it's this or option 1
>like, uh, break free from the oppression and stuff, man. Don't listen to them, or something. Right? But hey, keep buying our CDs, huh.

>> No.20867328

Well the biggest problem with "suits" is the poorfag and midfag event horizon. Basically, until you become a suit, you can't properly think like a suit. So it's pretty much same thing as with elder abominations.

So first thing I suggest is that you eliminate the "suit" as a villain type. Instead of single type of person, have several. This way, you'll be able to analyze them more easily and try to place yourself in their shoes.

What I'd basically do is separate them by the way they got to their position into say inherited money, earned money through difficult work (say built up company from nothing/had an amazing idea and implemented it in right time/organized a money-making scheme using corrupt politicians and manipulating government), earned money through easy work (say political connections/being in a place to grab the money easily/being part of a larger plot and reaping profits), has no money and is in fact a mid-level and so on.

They you need to consider how these people are related to their local environment. The easy-money suit for example could act as a henchman to some greater power source who doesn't want to directly incriminate himself and may not have any greater thought about the villainous deed than that it's an order and that his existence depends on it.

>> No.20867341

Look, as we said before, the point of having a Cyberpunk setting, beyond the cool aesthetics, was that, at its core, it was NOT a morally dualistic type of setting. Everyone is more or less as bad as everyone else.

So, if you want DnD alignment system with biz suits and cyber goggles, you don't even need to debate on this.

>> No.20867356

On the other hand, the hard-money suit may think that he's in fact a benefactor to the society and that what he's doing is, from his point of view, only logical choice. Say he wants to kill a union leader in order to intimidate his workers into accepting bad work conditions. PCs may see him as a bad man, but in fact he may know that his competitor X in country Y, whose workers can only dream of the work conditions of hard-money's workers, will undersell him and push him out of business. The effect would be that all hard-money's workers would lose their jobs and X will have even more profits.

The inherited-money suit may not even care about the local environment. He didn't have the need top actually think about anything up until now and he knows that in the worst case, he can just live on the company's inertia. So he could be more concerned about some very personal and "selfish" goal such as getting that new car whose every component was made by young naked virgins. On the other hand, he could also be suffering from a phobia of money-loss. Since he never lived without money, he may be even more radical than the previous generation of his family in his path to ensure the future of the company, leading him to extreme behavior.

>> No.20867365

Tell me of these sympathetic, far-sighted corporate daredevils willing to go down along with their co-workers because of the good times they've had together. You know, the ones that value all people as equals and wouldn't dream about embezzlement, partying up tax-money or lying or scapegoating to protect their interests.

>> No.20867376

Therein lies the source of the debate.

But then, I am something of a dandy and love flamboyant styles regardless of whether they're related to demonstrating status.

>> No.20867379 [DELETED] 

only the poor want people to share their wealth.

>> No.20867381


>They found that strong people skills correlate loosely or not at all with being a good C.E.O. Traits like being a good listener, a good team builder, an enthusiastic colleague, a great communicator do not seem to be very important when it comes to leading successful companies.

>What mattered, it turned out, were execution and organizational skills. The traits that correlated most powerfully with success were attention to detail, persistence, efficiency, analytic thoroughness and the ability to work long hours.

>In other words, warm, flexible, team-oriented and empathetic people are less likely to thrive as C.E.O.’s. Organized, dogged, anal-retentive and slightly boring people are more likely to thrive.

>> No.20867382

Everyone does that. The people at the top have the opportunity to do more of it, but they're not morally worse, they just are in a better position than you. If you were at the top, had lots of money etc, you'd probably do the same thing.

>> No.20867396

Not him, but I think the part he's objecting to is that they're stupid.

>> No.20867399

>moral relativism

Awesome. So since I'm at the bottom, it's A-OK if I go storm some corp enclave, murder those who fight back, rape those who don't, and take everything that's not nailed down? Because if they were in my shoes, they'd do it to me.

>> No.20867405

What I want is a corporate mercenary working to feed his family because he has no other qualifications, without realizing that the corporations created the system that made people like his family poor in the first place. And yet this man and dozens like him have to die because otherwise nothing will change. If they're actual fascists and plutocrats, all of them, then it's, well. Why care about taking anyone's life AT ALL?

>> No.20867416

that's only for you, as a character in a cyberpunk setting, to decide. Thousands of other people in your situation did their choice and thought it was the right thing to do.

>> No.20867422

How is that anywhere close to the same level as what they're doing?
Siphoning funds from the company you work for is more accurate.

>> No.20867428

By becoming a politician, activist, or terrorist.

>> No.20867492

I have the opposite problem really.

I like suits, when I run cyberpunk games its usually from the Authoritarian side. I can't wrap my mind around the anti establishment, why not try to become part of the establishment, get a trade become invaulable work your way up, climb the ladder and break the fingers of the ones behind you, unless you have the support of the group then raise them up with you.

The problem is in my opinion that freedom fighters just aren't they are the next step in a long line of oppressors. You can't change human nature, you can influence it but you can't change it. The need to be better to have power. authority and wealth drive us. When I run my games the pcs are usually "upper management" or are the group that the upper management guy got his position by. They deal with rival managers looking to curry favor with the next tier, along with the rebels and recidivist.

>> No.20867497

No, you see, most people who AREN'T at the top aren't there because they are quite a bit saner and didn't want to extort people like that in the first place. Sure, power corrupts. But most people don't step onto the path of power in the first place because they don't care for it. Also, there's a reason why sociopaths are often found high up: Because they want that kind of power, and because they want it, they seek a way to get it, and then they pursue it. It's the same with, say, child molesters and priesthood. It's relatively common because they look at the world, think "where can I suck off little boys" and come to the conclusion that "DING, if I become a PRIEST", so then they become priests because that way they'll be able to gain more fulfillment. Create a spot that affords you certain privileges, and people who want to use and abuse this WILL find their way there. Like how you make a forum about traditional games, people who like that stuff will find it because they went looking for it.

>> No.20867663

I like villains like so:
but amplified.

>> No.20867687

No... I think most people don't take the first step on the path of power because it's too tight to fit many.
I think those stuck out on the street would quite happily do anything they had to to step up.
Sure, there will be SOME with morals enough to reject the choice, given the opportunity, but they will be the minority.

>> No.20867706

The true evil mastermind is revealed.

>> No.20867853

Believe it or not, but there's rarely too many businessmen. If man want to join those ranks, it won't become too tight, only more of them will be pushed down the ladder again. Perhaps it's the country I've been born and raised in (it has a history of non-violent socialist struggles), but most people I know most likely would not want to be one of the suits. And besides, "if given the chance" is rather unnecessary: Few born in another class are just "given the chance" to advance, you have to either actively pursue it or be born into it. As a general rule. I'm not saying it can't happen other ways, just that those are less common. And sure, you can find good people high up, but these are either born or married into it, or they got there somehow without actually understanding how their actions affects the larger world. A good man CAN execute a non-dissenter under orders, but it's less likely the more he knows about the situation. A bad man may want to execute people, so he'll join that squad.
Of course, I may be entirely wrong about my estimations.

>> No.20867886

Nicolas Cage isn't a villain. He's a force of nature, like a Tarrasque.

>> No.20867898

I'm not sure if that qualifies as Lawful Evil or Chaotic Good.

>> No.20867900

>He's a force of nature, like the bees.

>> No.20867949


>> No.20867980

let's say he used to be a force of nature until he started making shit films.

>> No.20867992

>that video
>that feel when I'm in law school
I hope one day to be that badass.

>> No.20868043


Come now, Cage has always just made EVERY film offered to him. That's his way. Like Walken.

It's like a holy quest, to make every film, no matter how dire! It's...Almost beautiful, y'know?

>> No.20868066

The man is a system its not an entity, its fate with a suit and tie, a consequence of life, there will always be the man and their will always be the rebels. The system and the opposite, If the opposite wins it becomes the system, if the system wins it retains the system. The Man is a system, but behind that system is men and women who live in the system are protected by the system are provided for by the system and in return provide for that system. They are people who love, hate, have families and try to provide for those families.

Thats what you got to remember, the idea that businessmen or anyone in power is inevitability a sociopath is a false concept perpetuated by the next wave of oppressors as a justification for their inevitable oppression. People are people no ones a saint no ones a devil. They just are

>> No.20868104

dont really have anything to say on the matter.

OP, you might find fitting pics by looking at EVE online avatars and art-work.

>> No.20868109

Raising Arizona is some of the best work the man has ever put out.

>> No.20868203


>until you become a suit, you can't properly think like a suit

I took a few years worth of classes towards an economics degree before determining their science was weak and turning to a neuroscience program. I see the reasoning behind suit-think, it just doesn't hold much appeal to me.

>that feel when I still use the analytic tools on a day to day basis for smaller decisions
>that feel when your friends' decisions are marred by bias and emotion and you're crushing it with sweet, cold logic

>> No.20868252


>> No.20868422

>>20866839 I'm looking for advice on how to represent and handle corporate-businessman-style villains in tabletop RPGs.

If you want to do cyberpunk right, in the way that originates from reality and takes the perceived premises which generate that to their logical extreme.

For me, this means a plutocrat who is literally not exposed to the suffering and consequences that his decisions generate, and who sees those decisions exclusively in the context of maximizing profit.

They are individuals to whom more money is the only moral compass - if it can get them an edge in the market, can shave off $0.01 from per-unit manufacture, can create a new product or harness a new resource that they can exclusive exploit, then it's the right thing to do.

Add copious amounts of cocaine, an ego that can only be generated by the worst interpretations of the secularized Protestant Ethic/Objectivism as commonly interpreted, and the irrelevance of the individual in that as soon as he's flatlined the board of directors will just select a new one who may be even worse, which invalidates not only the actions of the PCs but also the ego of the now deceased, and you have the perfect cyberpunk villain.

>> No.20868460

Cool guy, probably has a lot of skeletons in his closet, but hardly the typical big-shot businessman. Could make for a very good ally or employer in a cyberpunk game.

>> No.20868537

Seemingly. Another villain could be one backed by a powerful group, and you have to make them a liability instead of an asset, thus stopping that particular evil but not really harming its backers. Maybe even as an investigator for said backers, out to show that it's a bad call they've made.

>> No.20868732

That's funny, you're funny. Warren Buffet talks a lot about how the government should tax him more but for all his talk, he could just send them the extra money as a gift to the federal government, or maybe not hire legions of accountants to find tax loopholes, or secrete as much money away into offshore tax havens, or maybe not sends busloads of lobbyists to Washington to bribe politicians into supporting policies that reduce the burden or outright subsidize his enterprises.

>> No.20868764

>no mention of 100 Bullets

Basically, OP, look at that for inspiration on them. The whole thing is ridiculously powerful businessmen in the modern world fighting for control of the world economy.

It ends in blood, of course. But before then, plenty of fun and games!

>> No.20868795

How about an evil, beetly robber baron who is attempts to collapse the world economy by manipulating the commodities market, and pulling strings in the political world to affect monetary policy

>> No.20868830

You don't get it, do you? Its just numbers. All of it. Whether its cutting back on safety features and killing thousands nationwide, funding the further destabilization of third world nations for cheaper goods or labor, or even paying some broody little snotbag with a funny name that fancies himself the angel of death to take out a rival, its all just another tickmark on the great big cost-benefit analysis chart.

You're a great guy. Really, you are. You did the job quick, fast, and clean. No one realized you were there. Problem is, if I let you out of this room alive, you're gonna want credit for that job. That means bragging. That means news gets out. That means not only do I lose money paying you, but I also lose it keeping everything under wraps.

You're just a cog in the machine, pal, and me? I'm the fucking clockmaker. Now I'd love to stay and chat, but that odorless gas I've been pumping into the room for the last twenty minutes now should have you just about dead.

>> No.20868889

The suffering the higher ups cause is too far away from them to feel any empathy. if confronted with the atrocities they've caused from their scheming, they'll give a half-reason as to why that was justified, shift the blame to something out of their control, or sidestep the question.Possibly a mix of the three?

>> No.20868904

Sharp-suited business types in a cyberpunk setting image dump?
Sharp-suited business types...etc, etc.

>> No.20868920

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>> No.20868941

Dragovich...Kravchenko...Steiner...All MUST Die

>> No.20868946

If you've played Borderlands 2 yet, just make a less childish Handsome Jack.

>> No.20868947

>> No.20868948

Yaknow, they don't always have to be slick either?
I'm running a cyberpunk game and the first CEO and the first boss fight my party encountered was Arturos Reyes Jr. aka Sazon Booya.
Under the moniker Sazon Booya, Arturos was the heavyweight lucha champion in Mexico for 4 years, and then he paid to have both of his arms mechanically replaced with huge robotic crushing arms. Subsequently has was the cyberweight lucha champion for 5 years.
He used his money to buy important technologies and grow his own megacorporation - Optico. He created a satellite array called Argus that could reveal to him whatever the fuck he wanted, and he sold this information for large sums of money.
The PC's wanted some information from Argus so the infiltrated his corporate offices skyscraper.
Stumbled into his office to see him wearing a white pinstripe suit and a red lucha mask - he ripped off his sleeves and hurled his desk at them right off the bat. He was a tough fucker too.
Another one is pic related - Cassius Maxim. Ex mercenary who began Bismuth Industries, the experimental weapons manufacturing conglomerate, using weapons and technologies he stole as a mercenary. He was from Manchester, grew up in the slums. As a mercenary he never compromised. He's the same in business. He's totally a shark, completely linear, always calculating the most efficient and lucrative option and route he has. If there is some new tech worth taking, he sends in his corporate infantry to take it. If the PC's have crossed him (they have) he throws REALLY op units at them, because he can, and he NEVER underestimates them.

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>> No.20868998

Some will say the problem is that they see numbers instead of people, estate ready for development where gettos are and such.
A result of being so far up, everyone looks like ants...
Is that really all it is?
Or are those excuses?

Is the problem not that they are human? That they wish for others to feel pain that they might feel ever more pleasure? Everything has a cost, a price to be paid in blood.
How much is sacrificed for these people, how much willingly given? Firstborn cast into the flames as offering?
Power is not that corrupting, it merely enables that which is already there.
"Why should I help them, when they cannot find the strength to push my foot from their back? I deserve what I have, It is mine, I own it, I do not want to share this place up here, it is too crowded already. Why should I care for the weak, what profit is it? What use are the useless"
So sayith the strong.
But the strong beg for mercy just as the weak do, when true death comes.
There can only be so many backups, so many clones.
Death does not care about the weak or the strong.
Death comes for us all.

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>> No.20869032

> It's quite easy to push the button when you're not aware of the details
He can be fully aware too
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

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>> No.20869052

The man is a greedy sociopathic cunt who has completely lost touch with reality, basically the same as real-life American CEOs.

>> No.20869053

I like it, but that isnt a slick fella in clean suit like what I thought op was asking for. Thats an angry old man disillusioned with the world. Still a good villain, though. Even better if he thinks himself a philanthropist.

>> No.20869058

>> No.20869059

>Why did I have to-
- Say my piece right in the middle of a image dump AND about three people comparing political speeches?
Anywho, possible justification for your suit,OP, if laconic.

>> No.20869061


>> No.20869063

How has this guy not been posted yet?

>> No.20869074

dump starting

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>> No.20869116

I don't like mad science.
It is nasty, and does nasty things to people.
It still continues though. The mind shudders at what experiments we don't know about that probably exist.

But how do you stop a thing you know not of?
To destroy all of science is madness. Why must the tree burn because one fruit is rotten?

Rot is said to spread from one thing to another...

>> No.20869118

If it helps any, I read somewhere that there are a disproportionate amount who CEOs who exhibit traits typical of sociopaths.
Based on my own (limited) experience with suits, I would opine that they can be a bunch of entitled cunts.

>> No.20869121

>> No.20869122

"the man" just a man, a slick fella in a sharp looking suit with a good head on his shoulders.

here yah go.

>> No.20869126

>> No.20869132

>> No.20869137

>> No.20869142

maybe the right one would pass; nobody will guess them.

>> No.20869144

>> No.20869158

> It is nasty, and does nasty things to people.
Milgram's experiment only shows to people who they are. If we talking about "nasty things", we should remember something like 'Unite 731'
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

>> No.20869201

Meh. I've always found the cruelty of common people to be more shocking than the depths of depravity to which committed villains can sink.

I mean, some people are just bad by nature. It's plainly obvious when you meet them that they'd kill their own grannies for a dollar or a laugh. Nobody's surprised when someone like that tortures prisoners of war or conducts a genocide. It would be more shocking if they *didn't* commit atrocities.

But it's when ordinary nice people do horrible things, that's interesting.

>> No.20869322

Ordinary nice people do horrible things all the time, a kind word left unsaid, a shove when they should have waited. A thousand and more minor unpleasant actions.

Larger ones too.
Ordinary nice people go about their daily lives thinking about little other than thier own life. They are good to their friends, mostly. Kind to strangers.

But really, there is a world's worth of suffering around them. Humans are cruel because they lack power.
What can one man do for a starving nation? For homeless addicts littered like human waste in the streets.

People are humans.
Thus they are weak.
Thus they are wrong.

It is all very bleak. The question though shouldn't be wether this is really the case, humans are gastly beings after all.

No the question is, knowing that all these ordinary nice people are really flawed humans...

What then do you do?

>> No.20869344

Indeed! What's even more interesting? What if here is no "villians" at all (or they're in minority) in Unite 731 or things like that? Just some common people, not good, nor bad, that simply doing their job. Pressing buttons.

>> No.20869501


>lucha mask
>rips off sleeves
>throws his desk at interlopers

Hey, who told /tg/ about my business plan?

>> No.20869949

You expect them to be nothing but, then you build something that can withstand it, and then you try to show them a better way, and give them as much leniency as possible when they fuck up anyway.
Also, one thing is worth keeping in mind: People hate being trapped. This is pretty much a fact. If people suspect that they're stuck and haven't a chance to get out, they will fuck your shit up in order to become free. That's why fascists are always talking about (individual) freedom, to convince people that the cage they're being offered is true freedom. Because the more you lock them up the more you have to convince them that it isn't so.
See the U.S., for example.
Anyway, that's something you have to think about when making a dystopia: People must be convinced that they themselves aren't slaves.

>> No.20870207

Holy balls, I'm legitimately offended on 4chan. I think... I think this is my first time.

Thanks, guys. You just popped my getting-trolled cherry.

>> No.20870665


>> No.20871222

Sounds like that guy from Mirrors Edge. I forget his name, but he was a former wrestler and a son of a bitch.

>> No.20871339


...what in this thread pissed you off, precisely? I'm legitimately curious.


That boss fight sucked. Unskippable intro cinematic, if you don't catch the single split-second moment you can push a button you die (also unskippable) and have to restart the whole mess. Lame.

>> No.20871359

A subject close to my heart OP.
We all love to cheer for the underdog, and see the rich snobs put in their place. But, far too often, we seem to assume someone is an asshole just because they're better off than us. So many times, we're told that a man is rich; and that's to be our insensitive to think him a prick. It may seem difficult to identify with, but I grew up near the slums, but not in them. I went to the same schools, and so many kids picked at me for being a 'rich white kid.' Wasn't until I moved cross-town and went to the one high school that all kids in that area went to that it leveled out and I actually formed my own circle of friends. And in fact, on the other side of the coin, I found a lot of the entitled white kids there to be just as obnoxious as everyone was assuming I was.

So, in fiction, we often see the corporations as the villains. Nothing wrong with that, and in fact it does seem that 99% (no pun intended) actually are quite corrupt and greedy. However, in those infamous words, "Greed is good." And it always rustles the hell out of my jimmies when we're just given rich, old, and a ceo/executive of a company as the only reasons to assume someone is an arrogant asshole that deserves a bullet.

Part of the reason I love Robocop so much is that it shows the inside of the OCP. We see different people, doing different things, at different statuses, on different social levels, with different opinions, and different methodologies. We see that it's not a hive-mind of evil men kneading their hands behind a desk; but there are in fact a couple of bad apples at the top that are ruining the bushel.

>> No.20871573


People tend to give the sequels crap for OCP becoming more cartoonishly villainous and inept. I don't think that's the case, I think they knew exactly what they were doing the whole time. They just like watching robots fight.

>> No.20871781

/tg/ - Launching Secret Service investigations since 2004!

>> No.20871922

Anon, you have touched my heart/liver organ.

>> No.20872022


Mind me and understand.

Lawful society is the cesspit in which the weak propagate. Psychopaths and the apathetic are propped up by the safety of good order. Strength is beaten into men and metal both. Strain and fear and strife are our harrowing. Hope remains, even for we lost trapped in the miasma of comfort. In the fall, the testing begins. Who will succumb? Who will blossom? With the down-coming, behold the man!

Madness is the might of the best men.

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