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[ERROR] No.20743181 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Which other marines besides Gabe actually show some freaking humanity and care for civilians?

>> No.20743198



>> No.20743208

Right, forgot the Salamanders existed for a second.

Marines not in the Salamanders chapter and who aren't Gabe that care for civilians. Individuals from each chapter.

>> No.20743230

Spess Yiffs. Sometimes.
And Ultras every once in a while.

>> No.20743242

Any Space Marine has the potential to care more for humanity than normal.

>> No.20743245

Lamenters >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Salamanders in the care for humanity department

>> No.20743249

Why is Macha such a cunt in Dawn of War? And where does the depiction of her as a red-head come from anyway?

>> No.20743253

>Why is an Eldar a cunt

That's... Too god damn obvious.

>> No.20743260

Eldar = cunt

Why is a cunt so cunt

>> No.20743262

The eldar are retarded. Especially their farseers.
This probably has something to do with their obsession with destiny and unwillingness to admit that their predictions might be wrong.

>> No.20743273

>Why is a member of the cuntiest races a cunt
Because Eldar would let an entire world die because they can't come out and say "We might actually need help"

>> No.20743312


Who cares about Macha?

Her voice actress is sexier~

>> No.20743327

>And where does the depiction of her as a red-head come from anyway?

Her red hair maybe?

>> No.20743328

Blood Angels sans Flesh Tearers are pretty good bros when it comes to the average imperial citizen. But they tend to separate themselves from normies due to some accusations of vampirism.

I don't know if that fluff is still canon though.

>> No.20743333

Most chapters of marines are capable of it unless explicitly stated otherwise. Heck even the Dark Angels have shown compassion towards mortals like when they honoured the humans who fought alongside Naaman. Which makes sense when you consider their origins as knights on Caliban who defended the weak from the monsters of the great forest.



Why can't we just accept that both chapters have the Imperium's best interests at heart?

>> No.20743349

>Why can't we just accept that both chapters have the Imperium's best interests at heart?

Because neither of them do. They have the best interest of the meat at heart, and the Imperium doesn't need that much meat to run.

>> No.20743355

The vampirism? Well they're totally still vampires. But is there fluff about them being accused of such, or how imperials might view such? I'm kinda interested in the idea of how imperials might contrast their fascination and worshipful attitude towards astartes with the idea of one that wants just a -taste-.

>> No.20743357

Dark Angels
>single squad of Deathwing takes out an entire genestealer infestation
>Belial gives a piece of Namaan's armor to a PDF trooper just because Namaan talked to the guy
>Nestor treats wounded guardsmen and sets broken bones
>Boreas gives his plasma pistol to a PDF trooper after his lasgun runs out of ammo and their position is being over run by orks.

>> No.20743359

I just noticed that. I feel stupid.

>> No.20743368


Butthurt Black Templar more obsessed with personal glory detected.

When will you learn to just choke it up and accept the fact that yours is a duty to serve the Imperium? Not shit all over it with your honour nonsense.

>> No.20743394

Serve the Imperium by acting like a Marine. Leave the guard to the Guardsmen.

>> No.20743402

Legion of the Damned

Fire Hawks > Lamenters

>> No.20743405


Says the Chapter infamous for horde tactics.

>> No.20743407

I could swear it's in the 3rd ed codex. It talks about how they maintain their distance due to accusations of such, and how the Inquisition was interested but chalked it up to people trying to discredit the otherwise honorable chapter.

>> No.20743408 [SPOILER] 

Have some heresy

>> No.20743411

Chapter Master Kersh of the Excoriators. The main character of the book Legion of the Damned.
Damns a whole company of excoriates and a small deployment of sisters and guard to save the women and children of a cemetery world.

>> No.20743412 [SPOILER] 


Have some extra delicious heresy

>> No.20743417

Woah woah woah, Dark Angels not being complete utter assholes? What next, Lamenters stop getting the shit kicked out of them at every corner?

>> No.20743428


It speaks a lot about the worldbuilding "abilities" of GW designers that they created space elves around prophecies and divination in an universe where the master of fate is an evil chaos god.

And then they expect players to take Orks as the joke faction instead of Eldar.

>> No.20743435

...all hail the god empress of ponykind

>> No.20743439


Alot of people on /tg/ have the misconception that DA are always ALWAYS in the process of being backstabbing cunts.

Rather they're more a chapter of extreme dispositions.. under normal circumstances they're extremely committed to their duty to the Imperium and pursue with a sense of real devotion and, dare I say it, humility.

However the moment one of their skeletons-in-the-closet rears its head then they do a full swing around and focus entirely on That instead. They're not a bunch to do anything half-baked.

A good example would be the 13th black crusade, whereby they committed all 10 companies to the Eye of Terror (the smurfs committed about half of one). That was Before they uncovered suspicions of Cypher being involved in activities in the Segmentum Obscura. When they learned of his presence they fucking dropped everything in their pursuit of him.

>> No.20743440


Have our progenitors grown soft and strayed from the path to redemption?

>> No.20743444


Lolno, Dark Angels withdrew because they considered the Black Crusade an internal matter of the Astartes and demanded Guard and Navy not get involved.

Logan and Creed told Azrael to fuck off, and he did, taking all Unforgiven with him.

>> No.20743446

Read the Purging of Kadilus, they're pretty bro teir. Hell near the end Belial is worried Azrael will think he's a failure for not killing Nazdreg. Azrael is like "It's ok bro, you did your best and you saved the people you could I don't think I could have done better."

>> No.20743449


Shutup AoR, you have the worst colours of all the DA successors.

How does it feel to know that you're not Daddy's favourite personally-commissioned-for-the-pursuit-of-the-fallen successor either?

>> No.20743483

Wasn't this actually a player-generated incident that occured during the Black Crusade WW campaign? All the Dark Angel players fucked off from Cadia to the ruins of Caliban at such an inoportune moment that worlds were lost and the gate itself buckled beneath the Chaos onslaught?

>> No.20743502

I wish shit featured the Salamanders more prominently. They're my favorite chapter.

>> No.20743507

The Angels left before things got started.
It's funny because the Dark Angels were raping everyone in that campaign and Cadia got buttfucked, the Guard really should have just gone away.

>> No.20743722

>Orks are overrunning the city of Magna Bonum!
>Fear not, for the Blood Ravens have arrived and are mustering outside the city. Surely they will push forward and rescue the civilians still within?
>Isador says the Blood Ravens should attack instead of waiting for the Orks to come to them.
>Gabe says nope, the situation calls for a defensive action.

It's a good thing civilians in DoW have 10000 HP...

>> No.20743772

Well, to be fair, meeting the orks on open ground without an equivalent force of guardsmen with artillery coming out of their ears IS madness.

>> No.20743803

Would city streets and ruins really be classified as open ground though?

>> No.20743824


It'd be worse.

Anyone remember what happened to the germans in stalingrad?

>> No.20743838

Why do people say that Salamanders are the most caring or that Ultramarines rarely care?

The fluff clearly states that other than Horus and the Luna Wolves, the Ultramarines were the most benevolent conquerors leaving worlds in the best, self-sufficient state after conquering and leaving.

So Luna Wolves pre-heresy and Ultramarines are actually the most "caring" in that they do what is best for you. Ultramarines are also notoriously strict and intolerant of things such as greed and corruption (which are bad to begin with) but that's because their whole shtick is to have a stick up their ass.

>> No.20743851

Remember that the Blood Ravens had already lent their transports to evacuating the civilians. Homes can be rebuilt but lives are lost forever. It's not like they haven't had time to evacuate.

>> No.20743853

because people like to greatly exaggerate one or two things about everything in 40k

They forget about the Salamander's bred-in Nocturnian pragmatism, or the Ultramarines doing anything other than licking the pages of the Codex.

>> No.20743862

>lives are lost forever

Until you get some bitches to squeeze out some more.

>> No.20743874


Smurfs sent a fucking HONOUR COMPANY. Granted, this isn't the same as sending EVERY GODDAMN MARINE IN OUR CHAPTER like DA's, but they obviously weren't trying NOT to contribute. They literally sent their best and most irreplaceable men since they weren't able to send their entire chapter. Probably because they had to prepare Ultramar to secede from the Imperium.

Also love GK's "classified" contribution to the crusade counter-effort.

>> No.20743879


Salamanders are frequently noted in the fluff for placing the lives of civilians as paramount in their operations. The most famous example came when Tu'shan personally shouted down the Marines Malevolent for firing on a refugee camp after some intel that Orks were in the area. Another good example comes from Dembski's Helsreach novel whereby the Templars clash with the Salamanders because the latter refuses to simply abandon fallout shelters full of civilians which ends up putting Grimaldus' templars at risk (although due to the... characterisation in the book... it mostly comes off as Grimaldus whining because the job isn't glorious enough for him...yeah)

The Salamanders are also the chapter closest to the people of their homeworld. While Marines might be detached from such concepts as starting a family the Salamanders maintain ties to their roots, mingling with the local populace and keeping contact with the friends and family from their previous lives as mortals when they're off duty.

Granted, they're not Nice. They're grim and stern and fucking no-nonsense. They care, but they're not gentle about it.

>> No.20743880

now that would be Sparta

>> No.20743884


Black Library is full of shit. Don't say your sources are from "fluff" if it's going to be 99-100% BL. If by "fluff" you meant various codices, then that's fine.

>> No.20743895


A spesh mehrene named


>They're grim

So would you say they are both grim and (physically) dark?

>> No.20743904

>He was disappointed that his gene-built appearance, even shorn of his armour and weapons, could unnerve or intimidate ordinary humans

Forever alone.

>> No.20743921


...Princess Celestia?

>> No.20743922

Index Astartes: Black Legion paints a rather different picture about the Luna Wolves:

>His own Legion had all the glory of being the greatest Primarch’s personal guard, and they shared Horus’ credo of fighting to be the best. Under his inspiring command, the Luna Wolves were always at the forefront of the latest campaign, pushing the boundaries of the Imperium ever wider, driving further and further into the galaxy and striving to conquer and liberate more worlds than the other Legions. In the Aartuo, Keskastine and Androv Systems, the Luna Wolves are known to have moved swiftly on to planet after planet as soon as the local armies had been subdued. The Ultramarines and the Iron Warriors, who were fighting alongside Horus’ Legion at this time, were repeatedly left to mop up any final pockets of resistance and establish garrisons on the conquered worlds. The Luna Wolves officers apparently refused point blank to assign any troops to these duties, insisting that every man was required for the ongoing crusade. Further rebellion flared up on a number of the planets after the Luna Wolves had left, and it is believed that the Ultramarines Primarch Roboute Guilliman subsequently had words with Horus on the matter. At the time it seems that Horus pacified the Primarch by admitting that Guilliman was much better at this sort of thing than he was, however in his great work, the Codex Astartes – completed much later – Guilliman prescribed a much more thorough tactical doctrine for the suppression of a planet.

>> No.20743939


Stuff about Salamanders living amongst the people of Nocturne comes from the 3rd edition Armageddon codex pg. 25. You can probably find it on /rs/.

The bit talking about throwing themselves into hopeless battles to rescue civilians is in the vanilla marine dex on page 47.

There's also a book series although I haven't read that yet because from what I understand the main cast are a bunch of mary sues and the only worthwhile characters are one-shots, villains or die quickly anyway.

>> No.20743962


Grimaldus is a Black Templar Reclusiarch, not a Salamander.

He was something of a letdown in his book because most of his inner monologue is devoted to constant fucking WHINING about how he doesn't want to be in Helsreach and how Helbrecht is a big meanie sending him here to die ingloriously and how everyone around him is a total fucking loser and he and his men are too damn god for them.

Plus he never really comes across as much of a leader figure. I mean sure he spends most of the book running around making decisions and getting shit done, but he never comes off as particularly wise or thoughtful... and his only really inspirational moments are two Braveheart speeches. Considering he's supposed to be a fucking Chaplain, this is really annoying.

>> No.20743972

They slaughtered hordes of russian soldiers until they ran out of ammo?

>> No.20743985

>Girlyman confronts Horus about being a dick to his people
>Ultramarines confirmed for #1 caretakers

>> No.20743994

Of course the Salamanders are the fucking best. When Asdrubael Vect, one of the most cunning motherfuckers in the 41st millenium, was planning his massive coupe to enable a take-over of Commorragh, which chapter did he figure was good enough to lure in and cause havoc in the city?

Not the ultras.

Not the bloodangles.

Not the spess wulfs.

The fucking Salamanders. They stormed into Commorragh, they fucked its powerbase up real good. And then they actually managed to escape. They escaped after invading FUCKING COMMORRAGH.

>> No.20744010


Salamanders is the premiere close quarters chapter. I don't see what's so surprising about that.

If you want a chapter to take a city, you call the Iron Warriors. If you want a chapter to defend a city, you call the Imperial Fists. If you want a chapter to oversee a city, you call the Ultramarines. If you want a chapter to burn that fucker to the ground, you call the Salamanders.

>> No.20744017

>Implying the other Chapters would be dumb enough to get lured into Commorragh.

>> No.20744026


You don't call black people dumb that's racist.

>> No.20744037

Considering Commorragh is a hive city so vast it can only be measured in terms of the speed of light they really did cause an inordinate amount of damage for how many of them there were.

>> No.20744046


>> No.20744058


Maybe Commorragh is just really flammable.

>> No.20744063

They are salamanders, it's what they do.
They come over to your place, use flamers and tons of explosives to wreck your shit and then they go home to fuck bitches and relax with their kids while telling stories around the fireplace.

The fireplace may or may not be a forge where they make flamers and explosives for their kids to play with.

>> No.20744069

Most likely because of all the malt liquor that got spilled on it.

>> No.20744072


Space Marines can't reproduce with human females. "Family" does not necessarily mean children.

>> No.20744086

>this thread


>> No.20744095

The marriage may have been a political move to ensure the stability in one of the Sanctuary Cities or surrounding settlements.

The children are biologically not his. A second husband was married to bolster one of the weaker but more virtuous houses. The children were born of this second union.

Spiritually and legally the Marine is head of the house and patriarch of the family.

Also he enjoys telling the children stories, bringing them gifts from far away places and teaching them how to forge awesome things.

>> No.20744098

They weren't always space marines and I'm pretty sure that the age of consent on their planet doesn't work the way it does on this planet.
At least for males.
Hint hint.

>> No.20744106


So the marine is a bitch who raises another man's son.

>> No.20744108

>implying young black teenagers are all rapists

>> No.20744113


There's also the off chance that they had cousins and uncles and parents and siblings that they left behind.

Heck, an older Marine probably hangs around with his great great great great great great nephews and nieces.

Oh god I just realised that Sally dreadnoughts are probably unable to go back to their families.

>> No.20744119


Sure they can. They just Kool-Aid Man into the dining room during Thanksgiving.

>> No.20744125


>Salamander dreadnoughts act as the tree on Emperor's Day.

This is my new headcanon.

>> No.20744138

The marine is a dutiful warrior-gentleman who after realizing that he shoots blanks and has approximately 0 sex drive allows the wife he took to marry an additional husband. The house he was ensuring the preeminence of remains strong for another generation (becasue no fucker is going to challenge Step-Father and Patriarch).

He may even consider the other man a brother of sorts so long as he proves worthy of his position in life.

Also he gets a direct hand in shaping some of the next generation of nobles that the city state is going to inherit.

From the Marines point of view there is no down-side at all.

>> No.20744141

>>implying young black teenagers are all rapists
No, implying that space marine candidates are married off for the purposes of tradition and politics so they could sire children before their ability to reproduce is taken away.

>> No.20744144

>[citation needed]

>> No.20744150

Gabriel? Caring about civilians? Hah. In fact, I'll say "hah" to any Space Marine doing so except maybe a few Salamanders/Ultramarines.

>> No.20744153


Space Marines are recruited at the age of 6.

>> No.20744154

>asking for citation on a fan theory

>> No.20744162

Alternatively, they ask the local AdMech to do some artificial insemenation.
Even if the marines are not capable of generating reproductive cells on their own, the biologis could probably make some out of a sample of their original genetic code.
Because AdMech.

>> No.20744163


The Damnation crusade comic says different.

Codexes say different (usually they say mid adolescence)

The books say ALL SORTS OF SHIT. In Ragnar's case he was a young man.

>> No.20744168

>In Ragnar's case he was a young man.


>> No.20744181


Really there's no exact rules regarding the age, only that it gets considerably more difficult the older one gets.

>> No.20744183

Ragnar wasn't even old enough for proper facial hair, he wasn't that old.

>> No.20744186

>Space Marines are recruited at no older than the age of 16


>> No.20744188

>Into gene seed


>> No.20744197

And the transformation isn't coplete until the age of 18 or so.
Even minor adjustments, like a different version of psycho indoctrination would leave them capable of siring children at 14-16 or so.
2 years is more than enough if everything is planned in advance.

Or they could just get married after becoming a space marine and unfreeze a sperm sample when the time comes.

Either way, there are many fairly easy ways to work around their age.

>> No.20744200

Indeed, he could fight and screw bitches around, but on Fenris you can probably do that from 14 onwards.

Talking about deathworlds...has anyone wondered about why the hell they don't make an Astartes chapter recruiting from Catachan?

>> No.20744211

>live in glorious shithole country or 40K deathworld
>fuck older bitches at the age of 14


>> No.20744213


There's a special class of Techpriests called Genetors who devote themselves to genetic research and biology.

>> No.20744217

I can't see anything about geneseed mentioned in that post.
Unless you are saying that gene seed is the same as sperm cells in which case.... what?

I've got nothin'

>> No.20744218


What about the guy from Damnation Crusade? He was hairy as fuck over his body.

>> No.20744220

Do YOU want to be the chapter to try and tell Catachan that you're taking their best and brightest AWAY from the IG?

You'll never leave that planet alive.

>> No.20744221

>Live in real world
>Do it at as a preteen.


>> No.20744222

Recruitment age varies greatly between Chapters.

Some groom them from almost day 1 and raise them to be candidates for the chapter with no option of any other path in life.

Chapter like the Mortificators and Space Wolves recruit quite late. Ragnar was Boneing Ana when the Grimskulls attacked his village and the Wolves raised him from the dead. Lukas the Trikster is also known for sharing the bed of a dozen women in a single night. Mortificators won't look twice at anyone who hasn't already claimed fair heap of severed heads of their very own. Even the Imperial Fists recruit people at least old enough to go to war if the events in the book Sons of Dorn is anything to go by.

>> No.20744225

But not gene-seed. Whenever they try and do something with it it ends horribly.

>> No.20744228


As far as I can fathom the marines avoid recruiting from the same places as major guard regiments so they don't bump toes. Likewise regiments besides pdf aren't raised from Marine worlds.

That's pure speculation on my part though.

>> No.20744229


Space Marines are recruited from the finest warriors of their chapter worlds supposedly.

Age of 6, nah. Sure say that they are recruited young, but six years?

"This is Bobby, a ferocious warrior amongst his tribe, you should see him bite the ankles of those who incurred his displeasure."

"Pretty ok i guess, Brother Tremunus, I on the other hand have recruited Marvin over here, who i am certain will be a fine addition to our chapter, just look at those tiny fists clenched in anger."

"Dude, i think he is crying."

"...He is crying in rage, his wrath is driving him to tears."

"Yeah, sure."

>> No.20744234


>whenever they try

When they try to mess with it, yes, you get shit like the 21st founding.

But they're still the guys who handle the creation of new chapters and oversee the batches of Geneseed and test it for purity and the like.

>> No.20744243

They would go from being badass normal to being badass Astartes, as far as Catachan goes it shouldn't be a problem. They export soldiers, if they can become better soldiers, what's there to complain about?

Now, the IG could have something to say...

>> No.20744247

Anything from artist error, to being a particularly hairy and built youth.
But I think it was also written by Abnett, and he plays pretty loose with the 'rules' of the setting.

>> No.20744249


Actually becoming a Space Marine would be considered an honour even to a Catachan.

>> No.20744251

Hard to recruit them as fine warriors when you need to be young for the therapy and gene seed to take effect.

>> No.20744253


Leman Russ entire court volunteered for the process and half of them survived to become Space Marines.

So Space Wolves have recruited very late since the beginning and unless Leman Russ had a unusually large amount of teenagers in his court many of them would have been full grown men.

>> No.20744254

That just requires that you implant it, you don't have to do anything besides getting rid of the shit stuff.

>> No.20744257

The same can be said for the vast majority of technology.
Innovation in 40k takes forever and ever unless you are Tau.

The main reason for this is the simple fact that the universe hates everything with a passion on the power of grimdark can bestow.
Like the entire cursed founding and their bad luck or those clones of Macharius and their OHGODGETTHEFUCKAWAYFROMME bad luck.

>> No.20744268


That might be choked up to Russ' quirky geneseed.

After all Jonson couldn't turn Luther into a Marine.

>> No.20744269

>unusually large amount of teenagers in his court

You'd probably die pretty quick on Fenris, having lots of teenagers wouldn't be hard.

>> No.20744274

Actually, Tu'shan and the Malevolent chapter master "came to blows", as in, Tu'shan punched him in the god damned mouth.

>> No.20744275


>Fenris is ruled over by councils of teenagers

I am trying to envision a viking lord with a hoodie made out of wolf pelt.

>> No.20744284 [DELETED] 

That was Pre-Heresy. Dark Angels did that too, Luthor as an example.

The knowledge to turn a full grown adult into a Space Marine has been lost. Now Post-Heresy they have to grab them young, and even that fails a lot.

>> No.20744289


Kids, the sick and the weak are the first to die.

Those who actually live to grow experienced and skilled would have a far better chance to live long lives, particularly if your buddy is a primarch.

Leman Russ` court would be more likely to have a disproportionate amount of old men.

>> No.20744290

Luther wasn't a full marine.

>> No.20744291


Here is the answer we get a shit load of Left Over regiments from death-worlds. We show them an ork captured world.

Tell them that if they can capture the fucking thing they can settle down and be the PDF with big fat pensions and all the beer they want.

Once planet is captured bring in the biggest meanest civilians with useful skill (and prior military experience for preference) and build a new Imperial World.

give it a couple of hundred years and tell the decedents of these big mean bastards they pay less tax if there is a chapter claiming residency in their system.

You have just created a whole new race of genetic wrecking balls and allowed the Astartes to recruit from them. And they are happy about it. And the Imperium didn't have to loose a world to facilitate it.

>> No.20744297


Luther was Not turned into a marine. He was given access to various cybernetic and biological enhancements that brought him up to marine level, but he was too old to undergo the process.


Someone has Cohen the barbarian on the brain.

>> No.20744300

>A good example would be the 13th black crusade, whereby they committed all 10 companies to the Eye of Terror (the smurfs committed about half of one)

I've heard this "Ultramarines only sent one company to the 13th Black Crusade" argument made before and I decided to examine it closer. Let's see how things pan out.

>Angels of Absolution...10 Companies
>Angels of Vigilance...5 Companies (suspected but unconfirmed as Dark Angels successor)
>Dark Angels...10 Companies
Dark Angels and Dark Angels Successor chapters fighting in the 13th Black Crusade: 25

>Doom Eagles...5 Companies
>Howling Griffons...8 Companies
>Iron Snakes...5 Companies
>Novamarines...6 Companies
>Ultramarines...1 Honour Company
>White Consuls...10 Companies
Ultramarines and Ultramarines Successor chapters fighting in the 13th Black Crusade: 35

Look, just because Ward wrote some poor fluff in the 5E Ultramarines Codex and it's therefor cool to trash the Ultras, doesn't mean you can just ignore the fact that they created a Successor Chapter dedicated specifically to protecting the Imperium against attacks from the Eye of Terror.

>> No.20744303

>Kids, the sick and the weak are the first to die.

When most death comes from disease. When you're whole life is spent raiding and a Kracken decides to pop up and kill everyone on your ship it doesn't matter if you've lived an extra 10 years, you're food.

>> No.20744311

I'm not too big on lore so I have a question. I know the chapters are limited because Robot Girlyman made a book of terrible decisions that limited the amount of Marines you could have. But Geneseed. Is that something that's in limited supply? Like could you only ever make a certain amount of marines? Like I know it's the organs of the primarchs or some such but like... quantities and mass production. Because they try to recover all Geneseed as a rule.

>> No.20744314

10 years old regiments are eligible for colonization escort already, nothing new there.

I was wondering why the Astartes don't consider recruiting from some of the best badass pools one can find.

>> No.20744325


When someone is raiding your village and you have neither the body, experience or skill of someone who have been fighting for two decades odds are you die first.

>> No.20744326

As far as I know, the imperium does that every once in a while.
At least parts of it - they have billions of miserable poor people in hive worlds fighting over scraps in the lower levels.

I would be surprised if they didn't set up recruitment posters for invasion armies there. You could turn each volunteer gang into a platoon/regiment/whatever, sic them on a planet and just let them loose.

A century later, either you have a new, somewhat productive planet or you got rid of your excess population.
Or they are keeping the natives locked in a war, but that's fine too. Better that then have the xenos attack one of your important things.

>> No.20744329

So they are too lazy to commit to the defence of the Imperium personally, so they delegate the task to others who are willing, gotcha.

>> No.20744332


Geneseed is implanted into an aspirant to cause them to evolve to a space marine.

Space marines develop an organ called the progenoid gland. One immediately, and a second one that matures throughout their life. It is this progenoid gland that is harvested to acquire geneseed for the creation of another space marine.

So every space marine can create one or two more, depending on how long he lives.

Unfortunately if a chapter suffers too heavy losses or the progenoid glands go unrecovered (such as what happened to the Celestial Lions) it becomes almost impossible to restore a chapter to full strength without centuries of work.

>> No.20744340

We're just saying that the Ultramarines themselves sent half a company, when did we mention successors?
There's a limited supply the AdMech holds, for geneseed examination and as a pool for the creation of new chapters IIRC. Chapters must give some of their own reserves.

The quantity is relatively low I suppose, as not all gene-seed can be recovered from SM bodies, and it takes time for the Progenoids to develop.

>> No.20744343

Unless you're a badass viking boy, which are the kind of guys the Wolves look for.

>> No.20744344

They're based on the other side of the galaxy.

>> No.20744348

Yes, geneseed can be a bitch to acquire by traditional methods.
When a space marines is created, he gety you one unit of geneseed and he has another in his progenoid organ.
The second one can only be extracted when the marine dies (that is why recovering marine corpses is so important).
You can find this info just about anywhere.

The second way to generate geneseed involves the admech growing thousands of tank-bred servitor-equivalents, implanting them with existing geneseed and then killing them to take the geneseed out. I forgot where I read that one, though. And there are downsides, I think.

>> No.20744349

>Robot Girlyman made a book of terrible decisions

Which is why the codex chapters chapters are the most successful, right?

>> No.20744352

That's the entire history of the Ultramarines chapter since the Horus Heresy, only exception being the Tyrannic wars...

>> No.20744353

Gah, so many spelling mistakes.
I need to sleep more or something.

>> No.20744355


The progenoid glands of a Marine can be harvested to spawn new artificial organs.

A marine has two of them. A primary and a secondary.

The primary one is implanted next to the primary heart from a dead marine or from one grown in a vat (takes 50 years). The Secondary one grows inside the chest just under where the throat joins the torso. It grows on its own and this takes about 4-6 years at which point an apothecary rips it out of the marine to use to grow more artificial organs in his laboratory-shrine. Anesthetic optional.

Every dead marine has his Primary Progenoid removed and sent to the apothecary. Along with anything else that might be useful.

This is marine reproduction. Its complicated and faulty as hell.

Also they have to send 5% of their progenoid stock to Mars every century for the cog-boys to run tests on.

The cog boys breed it in their holy laboratory-cathedrals for use in the next founding or to bolster dwindling supplies from another chapter of the same blood-line. Raven Guard and its kin are the worst examples of this.

>> No.20744363


Actually the Dark Angels were the most successful chapter during the crusade after the Luna Wolves and in the modern Imperium the Black Templars have probably done the most due to being fucking everywhere.

>> No.20744366

So can you remove the second pogenoid organ via surgery without killing the marine? or is it something intrinsic to his survival? or has the method for such been long since lost?
Guess that answers that question

>> No.20744371

They held the Imperium together after the Heresy.


>> No.20744376

Didn't they say that Rogal Dorn was the only one who had more victories than Horus, but he didn't become warmaster because he lacked charisma?

>> No.20744379

No, Dorn was just a builder dude. Lack of charisma would probably be the Lion.

>> No.20744380

The Lion.

And frankly they have been inconsistent in regards to the 'record' of the Crusade.

>> No.20744382


codex space marines p13 disagrees.

>Guilliman succeeded in liberating more worlds during the Great Crusade than any other Primarch
>The Ultramarines soon became the largest Space Marine Legion, having more recruits and suffering fewer casualties than any other Legion

>> No.20744396

>suffering fewer casualties than any other Legion
Only because they were on the other side of the fucking GALAXY being fucking idiots.

>> No.20744397

You know, an expansion pack with a Salamanders campaign would be pretty sweet.

Like, on the planetary map, you get timed events, where you have to save civilians, PDF, crashed Imperial Navy personnel or Imperial Guard.
Getting enough of them to safety would grant additional resources and support in future missions, like how you could weaken enemy forces in the main mission by first doing a side mission in Tiberian Sun.

>> No.20744405

>So they are too lazy to commit to the defence of the Imperium personally

Yes, someone really should tell them to get off their lazy asses and actually contribute something to the well being of the Imperium.

>> No.20744415

>Only because they were on the other side of the fucking GALAXY being fucking idiots.

This was the great crusade, the side of galaxy didn't matter. The Ultramarines preformed best. Simple as that.

>> No.20744416

It varies from chapter to chapter, but most of the chapters that recruit from that age are putting them in military training until the implantation.

>> No.20744417

Well, isn't that the perfect behavior for a Roman-styled army?

The world is burning but they don't seem to notice.

>> No.20744423

That's what every chapter can do, the Ultras miss every major engagement, bar Tyrannic wars because they come knocking at their door.

>> No.20744424

You do realise that your average Space Marine comes from a planet where by age 10 you probably killed a sabertooth tiger?

>> No.20744426

They weren't where they were needed the most. That will forever be their failing

>> No.20744428


>> No.20744433

>the enemies of man are only on one side of the galaxy
you can't be serious

this is worse than the people who thought the world was flat.

>> No.20744440

>So much jelly.

Y'all just Ultramad.

>> No.20744444

>guys, guys listen to me.
>seriously guys I have the best idea
>everyone leave your posts
>everyone leave your posts and defend the cadian gate
>nothing else matters because obviously no one is going to attack our now undefended planets

>> No.20744451

Just learn to accept that Marine recruitment is more based on tradition and superstition than pragmatism.

>Fenrisians recruit the strongest young warriors in a planet where every man is a warrior and every woman a breeding slave
>Ultramarines recruit from a pool of aristocrat youth trained for the occasion by the best programs money can buy

>Blood Angels recruit stunted wretches with radiation sickness, maybe the best of them but it's still special olympics

Luckily for the Imperium the gene-seed can make a marine out of anyone as long as genetic compatibility is there.

>> No.20744452

> undefended

What happened to the system wide PDF that are apparently as good as the best Guard regiments?

Undefended my ass.

>> No.20744454

Could a chapter/warband survive off of stolen genetic material?

Lets say the Celestial Lions manage to get hold of an Apothecary (or a retired Magos who used to work in th emars gene-vaults).

Lets say they were fighting in the 14th Black Crusade they are the last astartes standing on the battle field. It is now their duty to bring the progenoids back to the relevant authorities.

There are 279 astartes corpse that were successfully harvested. Only 221 progenoids are returned.

The last 20 survivors of the Lions and the retired cog-head move to Necromunda Underhives and have near unlimited access to willing recruits that the Imperium has forgotten about.

Lets say they just keep on, by looting the field of battle for carrion, harvesting gene-seed illegally and taking it back to the Safe House.

Would they be able to build a new unofficial chapter?

>> No.20744458


Surely that didn't happen...

>Ultramar worlds comes under massive attack by M'kar the Reborns' forces


>> No.20744461

>Fenrisians recruit the strongest young warriors in a planet where every man is a warrior and every woman a breeding slave
> breeding slave

There was one reference to breeding slaves in one book and it was only one tribe that was the focus. SOB fans blew this out of proportion.

Especially since there are a number of references to female warriors on Fenris.

>> No.20744462

How about Cadia's guard regiments that are supposed to be the best Guard regiments?
How much defending does it need? Every Space Marine?

>> No.20744469

Against the entire combined force of the Arch-Enemy?


>> No.20744472

What you have to realize is that the Ultras don't give a damn about the Imperium.

They do give a damn about Ultramar. So long as Ultramar endures the Imperium is a secondary concern.

>> No.20744475

The other Chapters kill them for stealing their gene-seed.

>> No.20744477

In slightly brighter but still grim alternate universe, the Eldar and Humans can rise above dicking one another over when they have a common goal.

Seriously this KEEPS HAPPENING! Humans and Eldar have common goal, before the end one tries to off the other. CAN YOU NOT WAIT?!

I mean of course not, their the biggest fuck-ups in the universe, almost everything wrong with 40K can be brought back to "fucking eldar"

Only they could create the Eye of Terror and STILL be cocky fucks

>> No.20744478

No, but maybe more than fifty.

>> No.20744480


But badass Viking boys grow up into badass viking men which is what Leman Russ would have wanted in his court.

Remember that at this point in time Leman Russ had no idea what a space marine was, far less did he know the particulars of how to create them.

>> No.20744484


Well I can't remember where I read it, probably a white dorf or something. I'm sure Jonson was once described as the second most successful primarch during the crusade, but I can't find the evidence I need right now so I can't back it up... so I'll cede this to you ultrafags.

Though I am still somewhat confused... I thought it was standard fare that Horus was the greatest and most successful Primarch before he turned traitor? I wish GW would pull their fingers out of their arses and figure this stuff out.

Perhaps the upcoming DA dex will shed some new light, though I wouldn't be surprised if it said that the DA were 'TRULY THE BEST MARINES EVAR' and then the next vanilla dex said the exact same thing about the ultramarines... again.

>> No.20744486

Badass vikings die before they get old, getting old is a sign of not fighting hard enough. Cowards, the lot of them.

>> No.20744491

>the ultramarines only defend their heavily fortified core worlds and that's it
>the ultima segmentum is a small place and the PDF can handle it
>all the other worlds and sectors left under-strength by the space marines travelling to cadia totally don't need any reinforcing
you're super dumb

I think that's the one where he was finally perma-killed

>> No.20744495

Urial Venturis, Captain of the 3rd Company, is a farmers son from Calth.

Not all are aristocrats

>> No.20744498

If I ever make a space marine army

It's gonna be a Lamenters army. They are the heroes we deserve

>> No.20744501

Horus was Warmaster because he was the Emperor's bro, the first found. The Ultramarines are simply the most successful Legion.

>> No.20744504

It's not like the Ultramarines are the only ones in the Segmentum...

>> No.20744505

Only if they find out.

>> No.20744506


That's pretty much expected, if humans were a low-population hyper-advanced race they would not treat a bunch of primitive and superstitious brutes as equals just because they happen to be more numerous, even if circumstances force them to work together.

>> No.20744509

Here's a bit food for thought for ya.

If the Ultramarines had the biggest legion, how much of their achievements is to be contributed to their skill and how much to the size of their "empire"?

>> No.20744510


But how does that make sense when the ultramarines spent most of the crusade mopping up the LW's sloppy seconds?

>> No.20744512

The eldar are dicks, but if you want to dump ALL the blame on someone, that would be either the Necrontyr or the Ctan, depending on your viewpoint.

>> No.20744513

The eye of terror was Slaanesh being born wasn't it?

>> No.20744514

That and Guileman thought that Horus was being an insufferable cunt, and he was right, so he would rather be as far from him as possible.

>> No.20744522

You don't think that those Chapters WOULD NOTICE MISSING GENESEED?

You can only get geneseed with a full-on attack. Like Chaos does.

>> No.20744524

>I think that's the one where he was finally perma-killed

Not even a Daemon can survive before the God of War, Lord Calgar.

>> No.20744525


I don't think Jonson ever was the second most successful Primarch. Rather I believe it's been stated that he could have been. He got into the crusade late, but he made up for lost time lightning fast.

If Luther's betrayal never happened he would have gone on to probably become one of the greatest primarchs.

>> No.20744529

White Dwarf 233 says only Jonson and Horus had more victories than Russ.

Index Astartes: Black Legion says the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus liberated the most worlds.

Codex: Ultramarines and Codex: Space Marines 5E say the Ultramarines liberated the most worlds.

>> No.20744532

I imagine their comments of "why the fuck aren't those guys also commiting EVERYTHING to the 13th crusade" apply as well. Which is equally fucking retarded, but they're focusing on the Ultramarines because of a weird hate-boner for them

it specifically mentions they had the fewest casualties, that implies actual skill at arms. Not to mention the skills shown in their integration of captured worlds.

>> No.20744533

They had the largest Legion, they could devote some to following around Horus' ilk while the rest got shit done faster than anyone else.

>> No.20744534

Growing old on Fenris is a sign that you have fought and killed all competitors for 40 years (about 60 Terran years) and you wear your grey hairs a status symbol of how hard you are to kill.

>> No.20744538

honestly it's hard to keep track of ALL of the Eldar's fuckups.

It's just... look if the mission entails blowing up a relic, and you're about 5 minutes from blowing up the relic and your allies are running WITH THE BOMBS, don't turn your guns on your allies before the objective is achieved.

>> No.20744546

you're forgetting the HH series. They upped the size of Ultramar and the legion pretty significantly

>> No.20744549

But the 21st founding was awesome.

>> No.20744550


Fucking GW

>> No.20744554


500 worlds in Ultramar, and 250,000 Ultramarines in the Legion.

100,000 was the legion average size.

>> No.20744556

Mutilate/burn the bodies afterwards to make it appear that the gene-seed was irrecoverable.

>> No.20744568

Actually, I was suggesting that, even if the ultramarines had committed more, the Segmentum would have remained defended anyway.

>> No.20744573

none of the 21st founding turned out right

and the project itself was instigated by chaos infiltrators working for Fabius Bile. Check out Index Astartes volume 1. It's on /rs/

>> No.20744576

obviously not, since they had a daemonic incursion on Macragge at the exact same time

>> No.20744581

But how defended? The 13th was happening in 999.M41. Same year as >>20744458

>> No.20744591

So you're saying that, while an entire hive Fleet has been stalled by 2 or 3 companies, they needed 950 marines and the PDF to stop a demonic incursion?

>> No.20744594

Blood Angels couldn't take part in 13th Black Crusade either, in 999.M41 Baal is attacked by daemon forces of Ka'Bandha and Hive Fleet Leviathan which demands the attention of Blood Angels and all their successors.

>> No.20744603

Maybe, the Blood Angels lost 950 Marine to a single Space Hulk once. The Ultramarines could also be out doing other things. Contact with Ultramar is pretty sporadic due to the weakening astronomican.

>> No.20744605

Everything happens, and will happen, in 999 M41, because M42 will never begin. GW is too lazy.

>> No.20744613

but the Cain novels are written in M42

>Greater Good is about the Tyrannic Wars, which has been built up over the past 2 books, much like the Shadowlight was in 4-6

>> No.20744618

mfw I think about Calgar saying that he missed the Black Crusade because he didn't hear the phone ringing.

>> No.20744623

Yes, but that's BL, not GW proper.

>> No.20744632

They'll never move the setting forward, it would mean having to potentially release whole new armies or whole new models.

>> No.20744634


>> No.20744638

They're too dumb to live.

>> No.20744680

>none of the 21st founding turned out right
But nearly 100% turned out awesome.
Black Dragons, Flame Falcons, Sons of Antaeus.

>> No.20744688

Btw, what happened to the Black Dragons? Last I heard of them they committed 9 companies to Armageddon IIRC.

>> No.20744700


Flame Falcons kinda turned out dead.

>> No.20744708

Only because of inquisitorial dickery, other then that they were fine.

>> No.20744712


found the short with the vect story

>> No.20744720

>It is not known how many marines survived, but there have been sightings of immolated marines on more than one Imperial battlefield.
They're not dead.
They were ALMOST eradicated by the Grey Knights, but an undisclosed amount escaped.
That's really the last we've heard from them save the novel about them killing plague zombies on Antagonis.

>> No.20744740

Lamenters and Minotaurs, too.
Oh, and these bad boys.

>> No.20744755


Well, the minotaurs are sitting pretty, They are the High Lords pet chapter now.

>> No.20744765

they're mentioned as having been exterminated (or otherwise absent) in the Salamander trilogy

>> No.20744772

>Slowly dying loopy marines that fight for the Emperor beyond the point of death
Best Marines.

>> No.20744773

No one knows where they came from.

>> No.20744776

Didn't remember that, but I still miss the third book. I hope that's not true, they looked badass enough.

>> No.20744779

They've been all but confirmed to be the Fire Hawks. Please.

>> No.20744786

That is bullshit on a level of getting rid of Ollanius Pius

>> No.20744789


They must hate fighting Necrons.

"One moment, Brother Narius and you will be back amongst us, i just need to suck the soul out of this immor....... Crap!"

>> No.20744799

The Imperium believes them to be dead, but they aren't. It's mentioned in the very passage that talks about the Inquisitorial purge WAY back in Codex: Ultramarines that they didn't get all of them and they became a renegade chapter.

>> No.20744819

They said they were purged in Codex Ultramarines? Wth, Armageddon WW campaign was far more recent, and they were at full strength.

Still, it's GW we're talking about.

>> No.20744823


Yeah, the Minotaurs are the lucky ones, the rest goes "Yay, chaos" or gets purged or are incredibly unlucky.

Minotaurs? They get all the equipment they want, and gets to punch other chapters in the face if they step out of line.

>> No.20744825

They never got rid of Ollanius Pius. He was just made an Imperial Fist.

The Fire Hawks became the Legion of the Damned. Saying otherwise is just sticking your fingers in your ears and singing.

>> No.20744836

You do realize that codices aren't in chronological order, right?
It's ALWAYS been the cusp of the 42nd millennium.

>> No.20744841

no, like, the Salamanders find a black dragon in commoragh, and they're all like "your chapter is fucking gone, buddy. We don't know what the fuck to do with you"

it's easy to forget things from that series.

And don't read the third book, they trade one sue for another. Remember that kid they found on the world with the crusade-era salamander? Well he becomes the first ever non-Nocturnean Salamander. And he also defeats two chaos space marines in single combat and saves a Captain.

And not the badass kind of defeating chaos space marines like with Ulfrik the Slayer.

>> No.20744848

I'm just suggesting that putting them on Armageddon may very well be a retcon of their purge.

>> No.20744850

I still stick to my theory that they're Imperial Daemons.

>> No.20744853

Oh, I see the confusion here.
I'm talking about the Flame Falcons, not the Black Dragons. They might be dead for all I know.

>> No.20744864

The Flame Falcons were on Armageddon?

>> No.20744867

he wasn't "made" one. Pius was a rumour to begin with. His canon was nothing more than that.

The "true story" details an Imperial Fist Terminator breaking into the bridge and interrupting the fight. RIGHT AFTER that battle the Emperor makes the Crux Terminatus to honour the terminators for "service performed int he defeat of horus", using pieces of his own armour.

The crux gives an invulnerable save versus bullshit like Horus' death beam

2+2, bro.

>> No.20744869

Don't remember, but I wsa talking about Black Dragons. That I remember clearly.

>> No.20744878

Same confusion, then.
Dunno if the Black Dragons were purged. I was talking about the Flame Falcons.

>> No.20744886

I knew it was something like that, but I couldn't remember details.

>> No.20744931

I wish I had the scan of the white dwarf story, it's the only bit I'm lacking

then I could just make a single image with the fluff for Pius, the fluff for the Terminator, and the fluff for the Crux all in one place

>> No.20744959

Pius was a whole other thing from the Terminator. Pius died during an assault on the Imperial palace while taking an attack meant for the Emperor. The Terminator died on the Vengeful Spirit while attacking Horus as the Emperor lay crippled.

>> No.20744978


>Hurr durr guiz I cannot into Tibetan marriage practices

Have fun with your endlessly divided farmland while that family of three husbands and a wife has three times the arable land your poor ass does.

>> No.20744996

>The crux gives an invulnerable save versus bullshit like Horus' death beam
Terminator armour gets an in vulnerable save because it's stupidly thick, not because of the Crux Terminatus.

>> No.20744999

'Cause Tibet is super successful.

>> No.20745003

Ragnar was like 14-15, he was old enough to fight and good enough to kill all his foes before dropping after a duel with another young skilled warrior. They then became Wolf Brothers and had lots of gay hate sex.

>> No.20745006

Speaking of Pius...

>At the end, the wrath of the Foresworn and their allies was halted before the Gate of Martyrs – the great eastern portal into Eydol City. There, a hastily gathered force of Space Marines and Imperial Guardsmen made their final stand. Kor Megron hurled himself at the defenders, determined to slaughter his way through. In the face of his fury, Cato Sicarius stood firm as the Daemon Prince brought down his accursed weapon in sweeping arcs, hammering the Space Marine Captain with such ferocity that his knees buckled and his finely wrought Talassarian tempest blade was notched and chipped. With a clawed foot, Kor Megron stomped Sicarius to the floor, cracking his breastplate and grinding him down. Triumphant, the Word Bearer raised his blade high, braying his victory to the skies.

>The killing blow never fell. A nearby Imperial Guardsman, seeing the mighty captain in mortal danger, forgot his fear and hurled himself at the towering Daemon Prince. As his bayonet plunged into the infernal beast’s flesh, the course of the battle, and the fate of Eydolim, shifted forever. Kor Megron, distracted, turned his gaze upon the brave Imperial Guardsman and burned him to ash in a torrent of Warpflame. The distraction was all the captain needed. In the blink of an eye, Sicarius jammed his blade upwards, past the breastplate of the Daemon and into its heart. With a skull-rending scream, the Daemon Prince was dragged into the Warp.

(source: 6th edition rulebook)

>> No.20745140

No, it's specifically because of the crux. Terminator Armour had no invulnerable save in 2nd edition, and it didn't even have one at the beginning of third

Chambers and the Chapter Approved team realized that Terminators fucking sucked when Ap2 was common as shit, so they added in the Crux force-field.

>> No.20746606

Could somebody explain to a stupid American at which point China, Tibet and possibly India became relevant to this conversation?

>> No.20746814

What a hero.

>> No.20746942

>mfw Gabriel was revealed to be a family man

You guys told me Marines can't....

Last time I believe anything said here!

>> No.20746970

it could easily have meant "family" as in his family line.

Marines can have "families" by the literal definition of the word. They have not, however been shown to sire children ever.

>> No.20747378


>implying he didn't get better and turned into the 2010s version of the Sensei.

>> No.20747450

>implying they've done anything with it yet
also, his parts were probably the worst in the book. Totally disconnected from the rest of the plot, and something that would be better served as it's own novel rather than tacked onto another one.

>> No.20747816


You forget he was also ret-conned after that into a custodes, then became an imperial guard living saint time traveller in some shitty black library novel.

>> No.20750257





>> No.20750326


That's because Horus, being the tactical genius he was, knew to eliminate the largest threat. Guess why the loyalists were even able to win their pyrrhic victory? Because Horus knew Guilliman was coming so he gambled and teleported to the bridge of his ship.


Luna Wolves performed the best when it came to conquering worlds. Ultramarines performed the best when it came to setting up posts and improving conquered worlds.

>> No.20750381

>a bloo bloo this starcraft player is better than me he has bigger bases, more expansions, a larger army, and better micro

>> No.20750414

>Chaos Legions cannot sustain numbers without having higher KDR than their enemies

Chaos Space Marines confirmed for pros.

>> No.20750846


Well, Abnett has brought him back.

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