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[ERROR] No.20649377 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>Start up campaign.
>Player asks "Is gay marriage allowed in this kingdom?"
>I answer, "No, marriage is mostly for alliance, children, and the dowry. But we'll say homosexuality is tolera-"
>Player's character immediately sets off on a quest to overthrow the king, usurp the throne (despite lack of claim) and instate gay marriage.
>Rest of party gets dragged along, because they think playing rebels might be more fun than killing liches.
>I'm a good sport, despite thinking this is the most retarded premise for a campaign ever.
>Party can't drum up enough support for pro-gay marriage rebels, so they try to find support for democracy.
>Decide to throw them a bone and let them start a war for democracy.
>Spend the whole campaign fighting battles, intrigue, actually not a bad campaign.
>Player eventually gets name president and makes her first act to legalize gay marriage.
>As she's signing the law, the clouds gather and a the entire town is massacre by an army of undead soldiers.
>"What the fuck, DM!"
>"I told you full well that you had to kill that lich before he completes the ritual and ushers in an age of eternal darkness. Apparently, you thought gay marriage was more important than not getting killed by an army of zombies and skeletons."
>GOOD END, in my book

>> No.20649402

So yeah, takes of player/GM spite.

>> No.20649408

>> No.20649426

Nice railroad.

>> No.20649429

>>20649377
So does that mean necrophilia is legal now, too?

>> No.20649433

>>20649426
How is that railroading?

>> No.20649434

>>20649377
>Player eventually gets name president and makes her
>her
Well that explains it.

>> No.20649436

woaw, you are a dick.

>> No.20649446

>>20649434
Neither the player, nor the PC were homosexual.

>> No.20649449

>>20649436
If by "dick" you mean "great DM."

>> No.20649457

>>20649446
Right, but if the player was female, it makes sense.

>> No.20649459

>>20649433
Well, not strictly a railroad, but he did essentially force them down a track.

Either they do the plot he wanted or they all die.

>> No.20649464

Well played sir. You supported them in going off the rails, but also reminded them that epic destinies tend to only have one plotline that will end badly if you ignore it

>> No.20649473

>>20649377
Well they were warned. Bravo, good sir.

>> No.20649487

>>20649434
Uh Oh! Cool Guy Alert!

>> No.20649494

On the one hand, kind of a douchey thing to do by shitting on their moment of triumph, on the other, players do forget important shit and focus on trivial nonsense all the time.

You really should have talked to them like a reasonable person.

>> No.20649495

>>20649459
Sort of, but he did allow them to go off, overthrow the entire country and (I assume) heavily disrupt the setting in the process.
And at the end he reminded them that inaction can be as bad as badly considered action. Consequences do exist
Plus, they're in charge of a country now, they could turn this around

>> No.20649502

>>20649459
Well I DID say he would bring an era of eternal darkness. Right off the bat. What exactly did you expect the lich to do when he foudn out the party was too busy starting a civil war? Shrug and say "Myeh, what's the point, if a plucky band of adventurers won't try and thwart me?"

>> No.20649508

>>20649459
They had vital intelligence on a dangerous lich's plans to destroy civilization, and decided "no one needs to know about this, let's overthrow the monarchy".

That's not railroading, that's realism.

>> No.20649513

...that's kinda dickish. Why didn't combine the two plots like a good DM? It would've been stupidly easy.

The Lich is a long-time homophobe and has been funding leaders that prevent gay marriage. Everybody wins.

>> No.20649524

>>20649513
OP has made it clear that opposing gay marriage wasnt even a thing, and that gay people just didnt get married

>> No.20649526

>>20649459

Not OP,

But that's called A STORY. Generally the reason protagonists in every story medium have consequences if they fail, and they choose not to be so stupid that they ignore them.

What do you think would have happened if Frodo and Sam went on a GOOD PR FOR HOBBIT campaign to stop stereotyping on hobbits instead of destroying the one ring? Or if Luke Skywalker started a civil lawsuit for the destruction of his home on Couriscant?

>> No.20649531

you should have had them raise and army to fight that lich and lose

>> No.20649532

>>20649513
You've got to be a real hardcore gay basher to hate those dastardly homosexuals even after you yourself cease to have identifying gender characteristics
I suppose it would have to born in the bone <THIS TERRIBLE PUN WAS CENSORED TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT

>> No.20649536

>>20649531
an army* goddamn

>> No.20649538

>>20649513
Because that doesn't make sense. Gay marriage wasn't even an issue in this setting. Marriage was strictly business, and there was no business in marrying two people of the same sex. Liches have better shit to do than worry about gay people getting married. You know, stuff like ruling the world.

>> No.20649547

>>20649513
Or maybe the lich was gay all along. He settles down in the new Republic of (insert name here) and gets married, like he always wanted.

Also, gay lich sex.

>> No.20649552

I like your style, OP.

And it's hardly railroading if you already told them about the lich.

>> No.20649555

Oh sure punish the players for wanting to do something else than the cliche Lich adventure.

>> No.20649560

>>20649526
You've never actually watched Star Wars, have you?

>> No.20649562

>>20649513
Or
>Litch is actually a ginormously flamboyant fagot
>Huge backlash against gays

>> No.20649563

>>20649526
>Or if Luke Skywalker started a civil lawsuit for the destruction of his home on Couriscant?
>Luke Skywalker
>home on Couriscant
He had a home there?

>> No.20649571

>>20649377
Fantastic! I would have waited till after the law was signed though, and maybe had increasing numbers of undead assault the town, then on a blood moon or something (have it happen 2-3 days after they ascended to power) have the whole darkness stuff happen.

I loved the irony of it all though. While I support gay marriage and would be happy if everyone could be miserable I also am kinda upset at the players gun-ho attitude about legalizing it in a ADVENTURE GAME. Seriously how far is your head up your ass that you want to make gay marriage a central issue in a DnD game?

TL;DR: DM was right for what he did, could have played it better but the pretentious bitch deserved it.

>> No.20649573

>>20649524
Yes, but clearly the players wanted to play rebels against the law. Maybe new laws are introduced or something. Maybe all marriage is banned.
Sure, it's very silly for a Lich to give a shit about this kind of thing, but it's about what the PLAYERS wants, not what the GM wants.

Maybe some groups are like that, but you GM to make a good time, and clearly the players wanted something else. I respect OP for not just cutting them down, but ultimately smashing them for it was a dick move.

Even with the joke posts in this thread, seriously, there could've been a billion plots you could've done to combine what you wanted and what your players wanted.

>> No.20649585

>hey something's going to kill you if you don't stop it

>fuck that, IT'S LIBERAL AGENDA TIME

> NO, PC, NO!

You were totally in the right there OP

>> No.20649593

>>20649573
its not about what the players want to do, its about what the entire group wants to do. i hate players like you who think that the GM needs to cater to them. unless you pay you do not have the right to demand that

>> No.20649594

>>20649555
There was nothing stopping them from alerting someone else (preferably with more experience/resources) who can wreck the lich's shit in their stead. There are more than two choices.

>> No.20649596

>>20649562
>Litch is actually a ginormously flamboyant fagot

DEMANDING DRAWFAGGOTRY NOW!

>> No.20649599

Kinda happened in a game I played in except instead of enacting gay rights we were carrying out vendettas and war profiteering and instead of a lich killing everyone with an army of undead it was Tiamat defeating Bahamut and enslaving the world with an army of chromatic dragons.

Either way our complete disregard toward the world at large for personal goals despite clear notice that shit was going down lead to the end of the world and in some aspects even facilitated its progress.

>> No.20649600

It's funny because if OP had wanted to make a plot about gay marriage and his players wanted to kill a lich, you lot would be sucking his player's dicks.

>> No.20649607

>>20649563

Misplaced modifiers. I get it.

>> No.20649608

>>20649593

OP did say he actually enjoyed himself though. So he is still a dick.

>> No.20649609

rolled 28, 95 = 123

>>20649573
Not OP, but that's not the GM's job.

The GM is meant to create a interesting world and fill it with interesting NPCs and supply interesting and fun adventures and let the players do as they wish. This does not mean that the other plots that they had set up for the PCs are suddenly put on pause until they get to them. Some other group might come and take care of it. The BBEG might succeed and the players will have to deal with the consequences. Maybe everything just settles itself and they hear about it from a town crier. It's part of adding another layer to the game world.

>> No.20649613

"hey guys, there's a problem"

"Not our prblem"

"ok then the problem goes unchecked"

"could care less"

"and then you die"

"WTF?"

>> No.20649614

>>20649594
Or, even better, they could have used killing the lich as a platform for their campaign.

>> No.20649627

>made up story designed to push /tg/'s buttons and bring all its creepiest posters out of the woodwork to talk about how awful gays & women are
Social Issues Wat Do

>> No.20649629

>>20649608
How the fuck do you employ that kind of twisted logic? DM has fun->Clearly a dick does not make any sense.

>> No.20649632

>>20649502
Well I always figured that beings who already have next to godlike powers like liches just come up with these crazy schemes because they're lonely and the only way anyone would ever want to hang out with a lich is if they want to kill it, so he has to come up with some cosmic ritual of doom or another to entice adventurers into his home.

>> No.20649638

>>20649502
Op, I think this is outstanding.
I just wish there were enough Battletech RPG players out there to replace ones I'd end up losing if I pulled a stunt like this.

Of course, I'm just wondering what the result would have been if you'd said "Alright, gay marriage is ok". As far as D&D goes, I'd think it deviates a bit from medieval settings. I mean, women can be adventurers in this setting, and aren't just baby factories or burdens on the family if she's not married off by the age of 13.

Still, I kind of think that if you'd taken her aside when she started going down this direction and - assuming she was trying to use the game to cater to her fetish for homolust - shoot her down before she drags the rest of the party along for the ride, you could have possibly kept the game on track, or at least got rid of the rot before it took over.

But I could imagine it wouldn't have been as gratifying as this.

>> No.20649642

>>20649609
>This does not mean that the other plots that they had set up for the PCs are suddenly put on pause until they get to them.

Exactly.

People who don't get that should stick to lazily-developed computer games.

>> No.20649648

>>20649627
Sooomebody hasn't read the thread.

>> No.20649649

Were the PCs like the ONLY fucking adventurers in your setting or something? That was an asshole move on your part.

>> No.20649651

>>20649593
Players = Group that's why it's plural.

I've never been a player. I GM.

>>20649609
That's fair, but I don't mean you cater to EVERYTHING a player wants. OP's case was an over-the-top punishment for a group that clearly wanted and was okay with a different campaign.

That's why I said he should've combined the two. It makes sense within the world and keeps the players interested. You're supposed to adapt.

If your players kept on missing hints as to who the BBEG was, wouldn't you drop more clues? Make him show up? Change something instead of acting high and mighty?

>> No.20649654

>>20649648
Sorry, is there some magic post in the thread that proves this is real?

>> No.20649655

>>20649614
"My opponent has done nothing to combat the lich threat on the borders of our lands. If I am elected I will expel the undead and provide free cantrips and orisons for all citizens."

>> No.20649662

>>20649377
>GOOD END, in my book

In my book too. 8/10, would read again.

>> No.20649668

>>20649513
Hes a better DM than me. I would've had the party establish a democratic union, only for the peasants to vote in the old king who then reestablishes his monarchy.

>> No.20649673

>>20649629
Yes it wasn't the original plan of the campaign to play rebels, but he did end up enjoying himself. So going off and punishing the players for something like that is rather dickish.

>> No.20649677

>>20649596
David Bowie as the Goblin King as a Skeleton. Done.

>> No.20649679

>>20649651
common usage of players excludes the gm. i was saying group to mean gm and players. i thought this was clear

>> No.20649680

>>20649377
>"I told you full well that you had to kill that lich before he completes the ritual and ushers in an age of eternal darkness.
Wait, how were they supposed to know that? Just by you, the DM, telling them so? And really, you STARTED a campaign with an end-of-the-world plot? REALLY?

>> No.20649710

>>20649680
Basic chosen one plot.

>> No.20649715

>Start up campaign.
>Player asks, "Are Liches in this kingdom?"
>I answer, "No, liches are mostly legends and fairytales to scary children. But we'll say that necromancy is tolera-"
>Player's character immediately sets off on a quest to slay a Lich, usurp the throne (despite lack of claim) and instate an inquisition.
>Rest of party gets dragged along, because they think playing heroes might be more fun than changing laws
>I'm a good sport, despite thinking this is the most retarded premise for a campaign ever.
>Party can't drum up enough support for anti-lich forces, so they try to find support for a witch hunt
>Decide to throw them a bone and let them start a war against dark arts
>Spend the whole campaign fighting battles, intrigue, actually not a bad campaign.
>Player eventually gets Head of Inquisition, and makes her first act to kill all necromancers
>As she's swinging the guillotine, the rainbows gather and the entire town is glittered by an army of gay pagans
>"What the fuck, DM!"
>"I told you full well that you had to change that law before the gays took over the straight world. Apparently you thought killing witches was more important than not getting a gay pride parade every two months."
>GOOD END, in my book

>> No.20649717

I think having a zombie army pop up out of nowhere right as they sign the thing is kinda silly.
Rather, the ritual should have been completed before they finished, and there should have been a slow expansion of the undead as they were politicking.
Of course, this might have happened, but the way it's written is unclear.

>> No.20649723

>>20649710
>"Chosen One" plot
>in a tabletop game

>> No.20649725

>>20649715
>>"I told you full well that you had to change that law before the gays took over the straight world. Apparently you thought killing witches was more important than not getting a gay pride parade every two months."
>GOOD END, in my book


This is how modern Western Society will fall

>> No.20649726

>>20649679
What players want > What GM wants in terms of adventure

You can't run a political intrigue campaign and then expect your barbarian party to be subtle and do what you want.

>> No.20649728

>>20649673
>So going off and punishing the players for something like that is rather dickish.
Having a living world is not a punishment.

>> No.20649739 [DELETED] 

>>20649600

Yeh because that would be [spoilers]gay[/spoilers]

>> No.20649741

>>20649726
how about go fuck yourself? what makes the players wants more important than the GMs?

>> No.20649743

>>20649725
>implying it hasn't fallen already

>> No.20649749

There's only ONE relevant question for the OP, and NONE OF YOU ASKED IT.

OP, did you give clear indication that the problem with the undead was progressing, that that plot thread was proceeding unchecked? If not, your players probably assumed you retconned it due to lack of interest.

>> No.20649754

>>20649726
>Hey guys I have this great campaign idea for a political intrigue
>No! Fuck you we're doing barbarians and fucking dinosaurs! Your wants are not important, serve uuuuusssss!

>> No.20649762

Had a GM do something somewhat like this..

We played our game for months and then, BAM, that one NPC who we thought was sort of a dick because he was a slaver? Oh yeah? Him? Yeah. Since you bought a couple slaves and freed them before he could buy them, he became the BBEG and he's been amassing power since the 2nd or 3rd session. He's been gaining XP at the same rate as everyone else and he's used to it buy up the strongest contacts and allies he can get.

By the way, he now rules the city and he's killed everyone you love. Also, you are now his slaves. The end.

Mind you, unlike OP, there was never and initial warning that this guy was a threat or that he'd be able to do any of that or that this was even something we knew we were supposed to be stopping before it started. We all thought there were other problems and we were addressing those instead.

Our GM was a dick. OP is not.

>> No.20649767

So this thread is basically "LOL THE WHOLE WORLD SHOULD REVOLVE AROUND OUR SPECIAL CHARACTERS BECAUSE CLEARLY WE ARE ALL THAT MATTERS IN THE UNIVERSE" players and a GM trying to make a living, vibrant world for the players to explore where there's stuff going on in the background even if the players don't directly influence it and the players are forced to react to changes that they didn't cause and learn that for every action (or inaction) there are consequences, right?

>> No.20649769

>>20649599
>Either way our complete disregard toward the world at large for personal goals despite clear notice that shit was going down lead to the end of the world and in some aspects even facilitated its progress.

Forgot to add that I found that magnificent. If we get to return to the world, facing the repercussions of my characters inaction and selfishness are going to have a monumental change in his personality.

>> No.20649773

>>20649728

Its not living because an undead army doesn't just spring up unnoticed, there must be OTHER adventure groups that could stop the Lich and so on and so on. Its just to stroke his own ego over oh how clever he is.

>> No.20649777

>>20649743
Of course it didn't,we still can change

Vote Ron Paul 2012

>> No.20649780

>>20649749
The scenario OP described didn't actually happen.

OP just made it up.

>> No.20649782

>>20649741
That's.. how it works? Even numerically.

A GM certainly has say, but the GM's opinion doesn't supercede the entire group's. A game just isn't going to work if the GM insists on pushing what he wants on everybody and forcing them into the campaign he wants.

Which, really, isn't what OP did, but the idea that GM > Players is just idiotic.

>> No.20649789

>>20649780
No, it's real. I was a player in that campaign. Here's a pic of my huge boobs with a timestamp to PROVE that I'm telling the truth:

>> No.20649792

>>20649777
>implying he has a chance

>> No.20649794

>>20649728
>living world
>the party was the only people made aware of this lich apocalypse and only ones who could stop it

>> No.20649798

>>20649792
777 = Ron Paul already won

I am not even American

>> No.20649804

>>20649749
You got me there, Anon. Aren't I just the worst?

>> No.20649807

>>20649773
>there must be OTHER adventure groups that could stop the Lich and so on and so on
Then why even do fucking anything?
Oh there is an evil tyrant? Someone else can get that.
Oh the princess was kidnapped by a dragon? Someone else can get that.
What we really want to do is start a dance academy!
...
What do you mean the evil tyrant joined forces and took over the world!

>> No.20649808

>>20649725
I think the idea was that they were supposed to strike a compromise, so they didn't have rebels all up in their junk.

>> No.20649809

>>20649794
Well, anyone else who wouldve mattered was sucked into the whole upheaval of a nation for the sake of gay marriage thing that just happened

>> No.20649812

>>20649794
If "living world" means "only the players matter", it turns out that every single DM creates a living world. Even BIOWARE can do it!

>>20649798
>not american
>wishing ron paul upon us
you bastard

>> No.20649817

>>20649782
and now youre putting words in my mouth. i never said that the gm was more important than the players

>> No.20649821

>>20649807
>Then why even do fucking anything?
TO GET RICH, YOU STUPID SHIT

>> No.20649824

>>20649798
Ron Paul's unelectability (is that even a word?) now transcends national boundaries.

>> No.20649826

>>20649807

Because of wanting to, they didn't want to. Some other adventure group probably wants to. Living world, bitch.

>> No.20649850

>>20649817
So GM = Group of people?
Isn't that exactly what you were speaking against initially, that the entire game shouldn't bend to the will of a single person?

The GM does not cater to a single player, the players do not cater to a GM's wish. It's about compromise.

>> No.20649856

>>20649807
>What do you mean the evil tyrant joined forces and took over the world!
>living world
>no other governments or adventuring parties
You're small-time, Anon.

>> No.20649858

>>20649782
>Players certainly have say, but the Players' opinion doesn't supercede the GM's. A game just isn't going to work if the players insist on pushing what they wants on the GM and forcing him into the campaign they wants.

Works both ways, hence it should be give and take not a fucking slave/master relationship.
That is a different kind of RPG

>> No.20649859

>>20649773
Well, it's quite possible that the GM's party was the only ones aware of the lich.
They could have, you know, told someone else about the situation.
So that other adventuring party could handle it.

>> No.20649882

>>20649859
>Well, it's quite possible that the GM's party was the only ones aware of the lich.
We still don't know HOW they were made aware of the Lich other than "the GM claims to have told them". You know, because this is made up.

>> No.20649885

>>20649850
jesus, fucking read my posts you illiterate cunt.
>>20649593

>> No.20649888

>>20649826
The party were probably the only ones to stumble across the lich's plans. The fact that they didn't tell the king/town guards/FBI right away means they are dumb as a sack of bricks.

>> No.20649898

>>20649856
>>20649826
>Every setting is just full of adventuer's running around doing quests all the time.

Good thing there is only GENERIC SETTING, right guys?

>>20649821
This guy is alright in my book.

>> No.20649908

>>20649780

Of course he did. But it's still an interesting "GM's ethical dilemma" to discuss nonetheless. Do we strive to create a living world where the PC's actions (and inactions) can have severe consequences, even if that might undo everything they've been working towards? Or do we create a PC-centric bizzaroworld where time is apparently frozen except for a 10 mile radius around the PC's, but which has the advantage of having a more free-roaming "sandbox game" feel?

>> No.20649912

>>20649885
>It's about what the group wants
>4 out of 5 people want something
>fuck you cunthole for pushing what you want on poor little me

Jesus, learn to capitalize you angry person.

>> No.20649918

>>20649596

Only if the lich is Freddie Mercury.

>> No.20649922

>>20649773
I always thought the notion that thwarting evil wizards and slaying dragons as a lifestyle choice and that there were just countless bands of people roving the world for only that purpose to be entirely silly.

Fighting evil wizards and saving the world shouldn't be a service industry like exterminating mice. It should be something that just kind of happens as fate weaves these people together into a bigger and bigger picture and that these people are the one present in the necessary events with the necessary knowledge and willpower that eventually they just find themselves together at this wizards door and the weight of the world on their shoulders.

>> No.20649924

>>20649912
from the start i was saying that it was about the entire group agreeing on what to play, you then went on to argue that i was correct with me. fuck you, and everyone you love.

>> No.20649929

>>20649912
I like how half his sentence is expletives.

>> No.20649931

Hahahahahah

Nice one

>> No.20649937

>>20649377
>Clearly establish a threat.
>Players ignore threat
>Players get buttmad when threat fucks their shit up

>> No.20649954

>>20649858
Oh, of course it isn't a master slave. It might be hard to keep with the string of posts, but I've just been saying there should've been a compromise.

OP should've been willing to change what was happening to better suit what the players were doing, such as the Lich being a coincidental obstacle between the Players and their goal.

>> No.20649960

>>20649912
>4 out of 5 people want something
>Suddenly group becomes 4 people
But then no you would get buttmad because GM was being an asshole about that too.

>> No.20649962

>>20649715
this is what homofags actually believe

>> No.20649965

You should have allowed them to escape, while describing the horrific manslaughter in detail, and pointing out that it was solely their fault.

>> No.20649976

>>20649937
We don't know if the threat was established clearly. Obviously, the DM would embellish the story in his favor.

>> No.20649979

>>20649937
Yes, you are correct.
Won't stop half the thread from angirly pounding their keyboards into dust.

>> No.20649980

>>20649965
>party escapes
>lich army slaughters all of the newlywed couples

Best end. Next campaign is vengeance against the Lich.

>> No.20649989

I agree with OP and think thats good DMing. I do the same. I have my main goal/objective of the setting, however I allow my players free reign in regards to the setting they can do anything but stuff still goes on in the world around them in regards to the plot

>> No.20649990

>>20649954
>the Lich being a coincidental obstacle between the Players and their goal.
But the Lich WAS an obstacle, unless they didn't care about the living/undead status of their citizens. If you want to agree that the timing of the Liche attack was poor I agree, but the GM did not inhibit their creating a democratic state with legalized gay marriage so the players still got to do what they wanted.

>> No.20649993

>>20649856
>>20649898
I want a setting where there are so many adventures the world is oversaturated with the fuckers to the point that each quest is a more of a race against the other adventures than it is about the actual quest.

Coming soon to theatres near you:

Questline!

>> No.20650001

>>20649377

You have my complete support in your actions.

>> No.20650004

>>20649954
Yeah, but try to ignore the whole "gay" stuff.
Maybe the lich had some cultist in the gubbrment whom he used to undermine that shit.
Maybe when a bunch of random fucks started throwing them off their positions they were like "the hell man". And things would spiral from there.

And then everyone would realise that initiating a civil war is beneficial to the lich. And the lich would take over the world as a result.
Damn. Guess there's no avoiding the game over.

>> No.20650013

>>20649990
Yes. I had said (again, maybe post string is hard to follow) that I respect OP for not fucking up what they were doing. He just could've slid in the Lich conflict so much better than saying it was happening and then never mention it again.

>> No.20650017

>>20649993
Mogworld touches the subject slightly. It's a comedy book that parodies mmorpgs.
It's pretty ok.

>> No.20650040

>>20650013
Well since this is a false account I would like to imagine that nights were getting darker and colder, rumours flying around about how much more scary the woods are.

>> No.20650047

>>20650040
If that were the case, yeah, I would agree.

Maybe add some unusually large wandering groups of undead or something.

>> No.20650058

The world shouldn't revolve around the players. Shit will happen regardless of whether they care or not (In fact, the lich probably prefers that they are ignoring him.)

>> No.20650068

>>20649573

>"Okay, you through the cave entrance, In from of you there is a great chasm, any sound made echoes up from the deep, it is clearly very deep
>"I want to jump into the chasm"
>W-what?"
>"You heard me!"
>"Uh, okay. You jump into the chasm, you fall for what seems like quite a long time before smashing against jagged rocks at the bottom, you take 60d6 falling damage"
>Rolls
>"Yeah, you die"
>"What the fuck man! That's such a dick move! Don't you know that the campaign should be about what the players want to do? If I want to jump into a chasm, then there should be marshmallows at the bottom!"

That's how fucking dumb you sound

>> No.20650069

>>20650017
I read Mogworld and it was incredibly ok.

It also isn't really what I was going for. I want a race movie, but in the form of questing. Every few years, veteran adventurers are chosen for the biggest quest of all: Killing a god. Of course, the worshipers of that god don't much take kindly to the whole affair.

Que shenanigans.

>> No.20650094

>>20649651

>OP's case was an over-the-top punishment

>Exactly what OP told the party was gonna happen
>Over the top

No.

>> No.20650107

>>20650068
>warn party once at the beginning of the campaign
>never mention it again
>expecting players to ever be logical

>> No.20650123

>>20649627
Took me a full minute of staring at that picture to figure it out it's supposed to be a fencing saber.

I was just sitting there thinking, why does she have a metal lolipop? Why is it behind her head? How is she holding it upright like that?

>> No.20650143

>>20649965
>Party escapes
>Entire kingdom slaughtered
>Kingdom raised and integrated into undead horde
>Zombies are still gay and married
>Previous zombies become gay and, under the laws the party created, marry
>Still destroying kingdoms and ending the world, while making new (gay) zombies
>Party must defeat the apocalypse THEY let become the biggest fag parade of all forever

>> No.20650149

>GM wants to do one thing
>Players want to do another
>Imma make you regret it! All deaaaaaad!!!!

Yeah I did that as GM once too, when I was 14

>> No.20650151

>>20650123
That's a dude, man.

>> No.20650161

>>20650151
>That's a dude
CIS scum.

>> No.20650162

>>20650149
this

>> No.20650163

>>20650149
except that the DM did let them do what they wanted

>> No.20650166

>>20649434
Why is it ok for women to bring their fetishes to games?

>> No.20650169

>>20650151
It's also probably supposed to be an epee.

>> No.20650179

>>20650149

Except for the part where. You know. He let them do exactly what they wanted and everyone had a good time

You're fucking stupid

>> No.20650182

>DM gives account
>only briefly mentions "liches"
>says afterwards that party had been informed of the threat posed by a specific lich
HEY GUYS I THINK THE PEOPLE SAYING THE PARTY WAS "FULLY INFORMED" ARE ACTUALLY JUST HOMOPHOBES

>> No.20650189

>>20650151
>That's a dude
uh

>> No.20650191

>>20650166
It isn't if op is DM. Her fetish chasing caused the end of the world.

>> No.20650199

>>20650166
>gay marriage
>fetish
Oh, I really wish this was a troll, but I know it isn't.

>> No.20650201

>>20650169
I kind of wanted to sperg out at him but I realized that the different swords are particilarly difficult to identify from a straight-on perspective. It's probably not a foil from the tiny head but it could be either saber or epee, the curve of the blade could be just perspective or the curve of a saber blade.

>> No.20650207

>>20650182
EVERYONE IS HOMOPHOBE
EVERYONE IS TRANSPHOBE
EVERYONE IS MISOGYNIST
CHECK PRIVILEGE
CIS SCUM
RAPE CULTURE ENABLER

There, I just did the whole thread. Can we go now?

>> No.20650212

>>20650149
Except that's not what happened. The party got to do exactly what they wanted. They got to spend the whole campaign fighting for democracy (as a means to legalize gay marriage). And they got it. However, it was said that a Lich was brewing up a plan to unleash an undead army and bring a thousand years of darkness. It's not like it was a "rocks fall" non-sequitur. Lightning didn't strike the party the moment they started to venture away from the Lich's sanctum. They deliberately ignored the very large threat laid out before them. Nobody stopped them from having fun. The whole campaign was pretty much over by the time the undead apocalypse came and in the end they still technically succeeded in what they set out to do.

>> No.20650215

>>20650199
>what is yaoi
Not to mention girls get off on that social crusade nonsense.

>> No.20650225

>>20650207
>There, I just did the whole thread.
You sound upset. Did someone on twitter make fun of you again?

>> No.20650228

>>20650182
>be gay
>think that's a hilarious twist

Nah dude nah, the players forgot that a setting is supposed to be a living thing that doesn't revolve around them.

>> No.20650236

>>20650215
So what you're telling me is that "sexy women" is ALSO a form of "fetish bullshit".

Done deal.

>> No.20650237

>>20650151

*snerk*

>> No.20650238

>>20650199
A woman watching two dudes enact homolust is a fetish, bro.

>> No.20650250

>>20650228
>living world
There you go again.

>> No.20650251

>>20650236
>Yaoi = "Sexy Women" for girls
You don't know what that is, do you?

>> No.20650253

>>20650207
>I just did the whole thread
Well I hope you got consent first.

>> No.20650257

>>20650238
>A man watching two chicks enact homolust is a fetish, bro.
Honestly, guys, try a LITTLE harder at least.

>> No.20650265

>>20650257
but it is

>> No.20650269

>>20650207
You forgot ENTITLEMENT. But otherwise, jolly good show.

>> No.20650274

>>20650265
>fetish defined as a sexual attraction to non-sexual things
>including "two chicks making out"
what the fuck am i reading

>> No.20650280

>>20650265

Wait, what is being defined as a fetish?

>> No.20650283

>>20650236
You...you do know what yaoi is, right? If not, you should go to /y/ and ask them all about sexy women.

>> No.20650286

>>20650269
it was actually present in the meta-sense

>> No.20650294

>>20650257
And it is, hence why dudes playing lesbians get so much flak.

>> No.20650298

>>20650283
>>20650251
Are you telling me you don't think two chicks making out is hot? Because, uh

>> No.20650302

>>20650274
that is NOT how fetish is being used in this context, and you know it.

>> No.20650303

>>20650274
>implying homosex is considered actual sex by a healthy human brain
>implying homosex is considered sex by evolution
Try harder, niggeress.

>> No.20650312

> is gay marriage allowed
>what the fuck?,,,, ummm.... yeah, sure it is... anyway about that liche

and that's how you should have handled that OP

>> No.20650313

>>20650225
Blast! I forgot UMAD!
>>20650269
And ENTITLED. Shit, I suck at being offtopic...
>>20650253
Of course not. Consent is no fun.

>> No.20650320

>>20650302
>that is NOT how fetish is being used in this context
So what you're saying is, "fetish shit" is defined as literally anything to do with sex, because that is the only way that "gay marriage" could be considered "fetish shit".

Man, you know what I think it is? I think you guys want to water down the meaning of "fetish" so that you don't have to feel weird about wanting to fuck a shoe or a horse or whatever.

>> No.20650326

>>20649426
>GM explains the stakes
>PCs ignore him, do their own thing.
>GM lets them, but then has them face the consequences
>RAILROAD

You are what is wrong with players.

>> No.20650328

>>20650313
>Blast! I forgot UMAD!
It was implied by your use of all-caps.

>> No.20650334

>>20650320
>sex
>acceptable in a pnp session
>homosex
>actual sex
Try harder.

>> No.20650336

> tfw the police come to OPs house tomorrrow and throw him in gulag for a hate crime against homos

> tfw he gets out, and the lesbo from his campaign has been on a ten year name and shame campaign against him that he never recovers from

>> No.20650338

>>20650320
im not trying to say that gay marriage is a fetish, i am merely saying that homosexuality is a fetish. there is nothing wrong with having fetishes, in my opinion

>> No.20650340

>>20650320
>"hey, did you see that chick at the bar? she was a little tall, but i sort of like th-"
>YOU FUCKING FREAK

>"i dunno, i've always had a thing for brown-haired girls-"
>GET YOUR FETISH OUT OF MY GAME

>WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T WANT MY RAPIST CHARACTER TO BE ALLOWED, IT'S JUST A GAME

>> No.20650341

>>20650328
No no, I have to call OTHER people mad and entitled for disagreeing with my opinion.

>> No.20650342

>>20650298
Sure, sometimes. But I admit it is a fetish.

>> No.20650348

>>20650334
Too obvious, not biting.

>> No.20650362

>>20650320
>Are lesbians in this kingdom
>Well no but -
>FUCK THE LICH AND FUCK EVERYTHING, IM DERAILING THIS SHIT AND LEGALIZING LESBIANS
Are you telling me that's not fetish shit?

>> No.20650368

>>20650348
>lack the intelligence to understand the arguement provided
>dismiss as trolling
Damn women.

Homosex is not really sex by the standards of what a normal brain considers sex and by the standards of evolution.
So fuck you.

>> No.20650378

>>20650362
>are the peasants considered equal in this kingdom
>well, they're tolerated, but the noble class is still-
>FUCK THE LICH AND FUCK EVERYTHING, I'M LEADING A CRUSADE TO INSTATE DEMOCRACY
Disgusting peasant fetishism.

>> No.20650385

>>20650378
Grasping at straws.

>> No.20650387

>>20650368
>Homosex is not really sex by the standards of what a normal brain considers sex and by the standards of evolution.
people on /tg/ seem bizarrely concerned about what the normal brain considers sex

you know, given all the weird shit they're into

>> No.20650389

>>20650338
It's kind of stupid, though. Do normal people have a naked woman fetish?

>> No.20650391

>>20650385
>there's no reason to pursue social change apart from fetishism
this is what republicans actually believe

>> No.20650398

>>20650387
I'm not saying fetishes are bad.
I'm saying getting of to homosex, especially homosex not involving yourself is a fetish.

>> No.20650400

>>20650199
>Oh, I really wish this was a troll, but I know it isn't.
It can be a fetish. Humans can sexualize everything, including important social issues. I'm fairly sure that in XIXth Century someone fapped while visualising sufragettes fighting for their voting rights.
Doesn't change the nature of the issue itself.

>> No.20650403

>>20650368
What's the normal brain's opinion on jacking it to underage anime babes?

>> No.20650416

>>20650398
>I'm not saying fetishes are bad.
That's good, because you don't seem to have the slightest idea of what they are.
>fuck what the scientists define it as, i'm using the REAL definition

>> No.20650419

>>20650391
Except that the girl in OP's group pursued social change was because of fetishism.

And keep your murrican politics away from this thread.

Conversing with you convinced me even more that females are incapable of rational thought.

>> No.20650423

>>20650385
Not really. A heterosexual girl derailing an entire quest so that gays who can already fuck each other with no social stigma can now do so under the label of marriage is pretty much the same as a guy forcing the party to go on a Lesbian Quest.

>> No.20650431

>>20650419
>Conversing with you convinced me even more that females are incapable of rational thought.
I'm not sure why you'd come to that conclusion, since I'm a dude, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

>Except that the girl in OP's group pursued social change was because of fetishism.
Oh, you've spoken to her?

>> No.20650442

>>20650431
You're dumb like a woman. That's saying something.

>Oh, you've spoken to her?
I've read the OP. Unlike you, apparently. inb5 hurr durrr hes lying.
That's irrelevant in a hypothetical situation.

>> No.20650447

>>20650389
how the fuck did you even make that leap? abnormal things suddenly are comparable to normal things?

>> No.20650455

>>20650416
Why are you arguing semantics?
Fine by me, if you don't wanna call ita fetish, lets not.
But you do agree that bringing your homolust fantasies on the table is not right, right?

>> No.20650458

>>20650442
>You're dumb like a woman.
How man-like of you to say.

>I've read the OP.
Four lines in a second-hand account and you already know what the woman's motives are. That's pretty impressive.

>> No.20650462

The DM is well within his rights to have this happen. If your setting has a barbarian horde that'll get out of controll of it goes unchecked... and then it goes unchecked, what the fuck do you expect to happen?
The sun doesn't rise because the players say it does.

>> No.20650465

>>20650447
>>20650455
oh god you're not trolling are you

>> No.20650476

Gods DAMN does Saturday bring the summerfags out of the woodwork.

Don't you guys have HOMEWORK by now?

>> No.20650479

>>20650455
Out of curiosity, which shithole Eastern European country are you from?

>> No.20650482

>>20650458
Well, you might have a penis, but you really are a woman at heart.
I can tell by how you ignore the arguements provided and are generally shit at arguing.

Protip: nobody gives a fuck what actually happened during OP's session. Maybe an interplanetary orgy broke out. We're talking about his post, you stupid shit.

>> No.20650483

>>20650462
FUCK THE DM FOR MAKING THE SUN RISE

IF THE PLAYERS WANT ETERNAL NIGHT THEY SHOULD GET IT

RAILROADING PIECE OF SHIT

>> No.20650486

>>20649377
Well, you didn't have to have the lich storm in at the party, but good on your for continuing the story behind their back. They could have handled the Lich then overthrew the govt.

>> No.20650490

>>20650465
well considering we're different people, i cant speak for him. but i dont see how you can equate homosexual activity to a naked woman. theyre not really the same thing. if you explain it to me, i can actually form some sort of coherent response

>> No.20650491

>>20650479
The one in which they fuck your mom.
:)

>> No.20650492

IT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME, NOT THE LETTER OF THE RULES, WHICH IS IMPORTANT. NEVER HOLD TO THE LETTER WRITTEN, NOR ALLOW SOME BARRACKS ROOM LAWYER TO FORCE QUOTATIONS FROM THE RULE BOOK UPON YOU, IF IT GOES AGAINST THE OBVIOUS INTENT OF THE GAME. AS YOU HEW THE LINE WITH RESPECT TO CONFORMITY TO MAJOR SYSTEMS AND UNIFORMITY OF PLAY IN GENERAL, ALSO BE CERTAIN THE GAME IS MASTERED BY YOU AND NOT BY YOUR PLAYERS. WITHIN THE BROAD PARAMETERS GIVEN IN THE ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS VOLUMES, YOU ARE CREATOR AND FINAL ARBITER. BY ORDERING THINGS AS THEY SHOULD BE, THE GAME AS A WHOLE FIRST, YOUR CAMPAIGN NEXT, AND YOUR PARTICIPANTS THEREAFTER, YOU WILL BE PLAYING ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS AS IT WAS MEANT TO BE. MAY YOU FIND AS MUCH PLEASURE IN SO DOING AS THE REST OF US DO!

>THE GAME AS A WHOLE FIRST, YOUR CAMPAIGN NEXT, AND YOUR PARTICIPANTS THEREAFTER, YOU WILL BE PLAYING ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS AS IT WAS MEANT TO BE

TL;DR: OP is in the right

>> No.20650495

>>20650398
>I'm saying getting of to homosex, especially homosex not involving yourself is a fetish.

Yes, you've already made it very clear you don't know what fetishes are.

>>20650368
>the standards of evolution

Please stop, you are making the biologists cry.

>> No.20650496

>>20650482
>We're talking about his post, you stupid shit.
Where in that post does it say that the player in question is doing it because of fetishism? Christ, it's like you literally can't read.

>> No.20650501

Did someone mention faggotry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBaCsXB8bjI

>> No.20650502

>>20650491
Slovakia? Do they even HAVE internet there yet?

>> No.20650504

>>20650496
It's pretty clear from the text.
Maybe you should work on your reading comprehension.

>> No.20650506

>>20650442
Not every woman is like your mother, you know?

>> No.20650507

>>20650490
>but i dont see how you can equate homosexual activity to a naked woman
Ask the Greeks, the Romans, the Japanese...

>> No.20650509

>>20650495
Please don't give me that "homosexuality is normal" crap.
I can tolerate faggots allright, but I won't tolerate them claiming they're not abnormal.

>> No.20650519

>>20650504
>It's pretty clear from the text.
So what you're saying is, it doesn't say it and you're making things up. Even in an overtly troll-tastic thread, you're still somehow caught in a logical error and you're just flailing like a dying squid.

Absolutely shameful.

>> No.20650521

>>20650400
>I'm fairly sure that in XIXth Century someone fapped while visualising sufragettes fighting for their voting rights.
I'm pretty sure A LOT of people did, and if they didn't fap they shlicked.

>> No.20650522

>>20650502
Your mom got fucked by the entirety of slovakia?
Dayumn.

>> No.20650530

>>20650507
huh, oddly enough i dont know anyone from those groups. thats why im asking you

>> No.20650531

>>20650509
>/tg/ poster
>concerned about "abnormality"
I HAVE A SECRET TO TELL YOU

>> No.20650545

>>20650531
pretty sure he said he was concerned about people accepting their abnormality

>> No.20650550

>>20650519
Well, it's not my fault that some people are too retarded to see the obvious.
I mean, I can't fix your wretched brain through the internet so you could understand.

Also, you're still failing to explain how making your lust for homosex the focus of the campaign is an ok thing.

>> No.20650551

>>20650519
see >>20649446
Its pretty fucking implicit that there are some ulterior motives for this shit here since neither the character or the player has a reason to demand gay marriage, especially since marriage is more of a business contract in this setting. And the only reason a straight woman would be interested in watching gay dudes fuck is for sexually gratifying reasons.

>> No.20650552

>>20650545
>i'm a weirdo creepy who jerks it to anime
>IF I'M NOT NORMAL, NOBODY IS

>> No.20650557

>>20650509
>abnormal
>done by people thousands of years ago with no perceptive knowledge of hereditary genetics
I'm not even gay but I can tell you that's bullshit, obviously from a evolutionary standpoint, you can't mate with another male/female but that doesn't mean they can't be in a relationship, or even guardians.

>> No.20650559

>>20650462
>The sun doesn't rise because the players say it does.
Bad DM detected. Glad I don't have shit DMs like this thread.

>> No.20650560

>>20650551
>And the only reason a straight woman would be interested in watching gay dudes fuck is for sexually gratifying reasons.

>> No.20650563

>>20650552
uuuuh, sure

>> No.20650568

>>20650531
oh god
how do i stop the laughing?

>> No.20650573

>>20650552
Nothing wrong with being abnormal. Just hate it when abnormal people claim they're normal.
>>20650557
>people have done abnormal things in the past
>that makes them normal
No.

>> No.20650575

>man makes rapist character
>"it's just a game, chill out"

>woman makes gay-rights-supportive character
>"KEEP YOUR FETISH OUT OF OUR GAME"

When Tumblr trolls you, you deserve it. You deserve every fucking post.

>> No.20650576

>>20650531
WHATS IN THE BOX, /tg/ WHATS IN THE BOX?!

>> No.20650580

>>20650068
terminal velocity is 20d6

>> No.20650583

>>20650509
Of course homosexuality is abnormal, just like having ginger hair is abnormal, or being left-handed, or playing traditional games.

But let's make one thing clear: evolution doesn't have standards. It's a process. "It" doesn't care what people do because "it" isn't really a thing, it's a label we've given to a particular phenomenon. You might as well ask the water cycle how it feels about desertification.

>> No.20650586

>>20650573
>Just hate it when abnormal people claim they're normal.
Who's "normal"?

>> No.20650590

>>20650575
>implying that ever happens
>ever

>> No.20650596

>>20650580
>jagged rocks

>> No.20650599

>>20650590
>rance threads

>> No.20650600

>mfw this thread

I'm sorry guys for bringing up the whole fetish thing.

It's just that I know plenty of women who go all moist for gay men the same way dudes go for lezzies. And seeing that it was a woman who decided "lets derail the entire game for that sweet, sweet homosexy stuff," I seriously can't think of another reason she's doing it. No different from a dude derailing an entire game to allow the kingdom to legalize what ever fetish he's into.

>> No.20650602

>>20650575
>assumptions
Stop being so stereotypically woman, please.

Also, that girl's lust for homosex was really out of character, since she was straight.
While a rapist raping things is completely ic.

>> No.20650604

>>20650583
It does have one standard:

Producing viable offspring. Coincidentally, this is the one thing homosexuals cant do naturally.

>> No.20650608

>>20650602
>assumptions
Were you not around yesterday, or...

oh right, you're New.

>> No.20650612

>>20650600
Thats how I read it, too, so at least you're not alone.

>> No.20650613

>>20650575

I'm fairly sure 90% of /tg/ would be more upset over the former, judging from our hatred of "elf rape wat do" threads.

>> No.20650620

>Producing viable offspring.

EXPLAIN ANTS

>> No.20650625

>>20650580
Yeah, but it's terminal velocity + jagged rocks. Getting skewered by some pointy stalagmites is gonna do a lot more damage than belly-flopping onto a hard, flat surface.

>> No.20650627

>>20650613
>judging from our hatred of "elf rape wat do" threads
In the past, yes.

Now we're /pol/ and an "elf rape wat do" thread would be full of supporters and anyone who thought of NOT raping the elf would be shouted down for being a faggot.

You were all so worried about tumblr that you forgot about Stormfront.

>> No.20650629

>>20650599
>implying anyone would want someone to play Rance in their setting
Secondly, Ranceverse is a shitty, shitty place where for some reason or another rape is literally the nicest thing Rance can do because the gods are dicks.

>> No.20650631

>>20650608
>trying to connect posts to posts
>on an anonymous imageboard
Talk about being new.
For all you know, I could be that one guy who saged that thread.
For all you know, none of the people who were in that thread are in this thread.
Boards are not a fucking hivemind. Learn that well.

>> No.20650634

>>20650629
>implying anyone would want someone to play Rance in their setting
We JUST had that thread YESTERDAY.

>> No.20650640

>>20650620
They produce viable offspring.

ANTS EXPLAINED

>> No.20650641

>>20650631
>For all you know, I could be that one guy who saged that thread.
Then you would have displayed knowledge of it instead of acting like it didn't exist. QED.

>> No.20650645

>>20650560
Yes, that is indeed what I said.

>> No.20650649

>>20650640
>They produce viable offspring.
do you not know how ants work

spoiler: 99% of them aren't producing offspring

>> No.20650650

>>20650641
Or maybe I would have not.
What's to say I would want to acknowledge that thread?
Stop assuming shit.

>> No.20650659

>>20650649
The rest do.
Whoop de fucking doo.

>> No.20650662

>>20650650
>Or maybe I would have not.
Which is to say, "maybe I would lie openly to try to confuse a point". In which case, uh, you just kind of copped to it bro.

>> No.20650664

>>20650604
Firstly, homosexuals can and do have children. They are not infertile.

Second, again, evolution is not a thing. You are anthropomorphising the process by which genes change over successive generations. It doesn't care about whether anyone reproduces or not. It couldn't care, because it doesn't have a mind, and it's not really a thing.

How do you think erosion feels about sea defence systems? Answer: it doesn't care. It couldn't care, because erosion is just a process, not some kind of god. You sound as silly telling people that evolution has standards as you would sound telling people that erosion disapproves of them building sea walls.

>> No.20650667

>>20650634
HOLY SHIT, WHAT THE FUCK ARE THESE THINGS CALLED JOKES?!

Not many people would deal with a guy who wants to rape every fucking enemy they come across.

>> No.20650671

>>20650573
Yes.

>> No.20650672

>>20650575
No, this is:

>man derails entire game because of reasons not defined but clearly of fetishistic in nature
>STOP BRINGING YOUR FETISHES INTO THE GAME

>woman derails entire game because of reasons not defined but clearly of fetishistic in nature
>everyone plays along

Imagine it reversed, it's a dude that wants to legalize lesbian marriage in the kingdom and derails the entire campaign to do it. No one's gonna give him the "philanthropist of the year" award.

>> No.20650680

>>20650649
And the other 1% are, making the 1% more evolutionarily fit than the other 99%.

>> No.20650681

>>20650667
>HOLY SHIT, WHAT THE FUCK ARE THESE THINGS CALLED JOKES?!

>would this be a good character
>"yes, i think so"
>jokes

>> No.20650683

Finally a use for my lesbian ants picture I found.

>> No.20650686

>>20650662
What point?
>all of /tg/ is perfectly okay with tabletop rape because that one thread was supportive of it
This one?
Maybe you should think about this one:
>this is an anonymous imageboard. Stop assuming shit about the posters

>> No.20650689

Animals have gay sex.

It might be an evolutionary strategy for social animals, because it lets animals build a strong pack without all the members having kids and depleting their food too quickly.

But really, nobody knows why some people are gay.

God damn I want this topic to die so bad. Will the two anons keeping the topic going please stop? 10/10 OP.

>> No.20650700

>>20650672
>Imagine it reversed, it's a dude that wants to legalize lesbian marriage in the kingdom and derails the entire campaign to do it.
How is legalizing lesbian marriages fetishistic? They're still gonna make out whether or not they're married; it's not like the average dude really gives a shit whether two women feeling each other up are wearing rings on their fingers.

>NO CIVIL UNIONS
>I DEMAND MARRIAGES FOR MY FETISH

>> No.20650701

>>20650664
Though evolution can have a related effect to the presence or absence of non-reproducing organisms.

Organisms whose relatives include people who don't reproduce but are useful for survival (such as post-menopause women, who can teach survival skills to the younger generations), may be more likely to have viable offspring that survive.

Thus, if homosexuality provides a positive element (or is related to something that provides a positive element, or simply fails to provide a negative element), its presence may be explained by evolution.

>> No.20650708

>>20650664
>Firstly, homosexuals can and do have children. They are not infertile.
Homosex can't produce children.
No children = no evolution.
durrr.

>> No.20650711

>>20650683
Nigga one of those is a bee.
Though I approve fully of any and all insectbians.

>> No.20650715

>>20650686
>all of /tg/ is perfectly okay with tabletop rape because that one thread was supportive of it
Didn't say "all of".

>> No.20650720

The 99% of ants *effectively* get to reproduce, as the genes they have are still being passed on according to their fitness, just indirectly.

Whether this applies to human homosexuals is anybodies guess, but since they're still around I guess evolution isn't bothered by this.

>> No.20650725

>>20650700
Thats another thing, op already established that homosexuality was a thing no one was upset by in this setting, it just didn't play into marriage since marriage was a business and breeding contract, not a declaration of devotion.

>> No.20650726

>>20650680
that's not how ants work

just because a singular individual doesn't reproduce doesn't mean they aren't indirectly contributing to the survival of their genes, especially through RELATED individuals. in fact, a major theory about why natural selection might result in gay people is because the occasional gay person might good for a family as a whole (by, for instance, helping take care of their nephews, nieces and cousins without any children of their own to burden them)

>> No.20650729

>>20650708
You can't into evolution.

Evolution depends not on You and You Only Reproducing, so much as Your Genes Are Passed Down. If the ant queen passes down its colonies genes because the rest of the ants are really good at their jobs, that is supported by evolutionary theory.

>> No.20650730

>>20650689
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes

>> No.20650733

OP, GREAT fucking Dming man. Kudos for having the balls to make PCs responsible for their actions.

Various posters, FUCK off and die, please. It may or may not have been about homosexual acts and the gratification the player may have gotten from it, but the truth of the matter is that it made the player responsible for their choices. If the players step into a known Dragon's Lair, EVEN if the DM hasn't said anything about it recently, they are still responsible for the assraping they will receive. They ignore previous warnings and did what they wanted to do, rather then what heroes in a story would do. They get the beat stick they deserve.

Also props to you DM for waiting until the campaign was basically over. Great fucking timing, they get their personal win, but lose the war due to their decisions to not look at the bigger more important picture. Bravo.

>> No.20650734

>>20650715
Okay, lets see.
>woman makes gay-rights-supportive character
>"KEEP YOUR FETISH OUT OF OUR GAME"

>When Tumblr trolls you, you deserve it. You deserve every fucking post.

Oh. So, by "you", you meant the people who posted in that thread. Fair enough then.
Should have made that clearer.

And I assume that whole post was directed at the people from that thread.
Huh.

>> No.20650741

>>20650708
My mother is gay. Your argument is invalid.

>> No.20650742

>>20650664
>erosion disapproves of them building sea walls
I want this in a game.

>> No.20650744

This is sorta like discovering that someone's house is on fire and, rather than call the fire department or attempt to put it out yourself, having an hours long discussion on taxes and social political issues while everyone and everything inside burns to a crisp.

>> No.20650748

>>20650629
>rape is literally the nicest thing Rance can do
What are you even talking about, anon.

>> No.20650755

>>20650726
Theres also the whole deal where the more kids you have, the more likely they are to be gay, so homosexuality could easily be some sort of genetically encoded stopgap to make sure overpopulation doesn't occur.

>> No.20650757

>>20650729
Do homosexuals who do homosex exclusively get to pass down their genes?

>> No.20650764

>>20650741
That'd imply she fucked a male.
Which isn't homosex.
lrn2readings son

I think you might have been adopted.

>> No.20650769

>>20650627
>You were all so worried about tumblr that you forgot about Stormfront.

I agree that the trend towards racism on 4chan is getting kinda worrying (a couple years ago it was mostly done ironically and to offend newfriends, now 90% of the time it's serious), but /tg/ is holding out against that shit. Generally speaking, if someone makes a racist thread here, 90% of the posts will be calling OP out over it.

We don't like the tumblr "social justice" bullshit either, but that shit tends to be just as stupid, only in the other direction.

>> No.20650783

>>20650664
>Firstly, homosexuals can and do have children.
Not naturally if they're truly homosexual and have 0 desire to stick the ponos in the vagoo. But that's besides the point. I don't have anything against the gays and find this whole argument silly, so I figured I would make it about genetics instead of homosexuality.

>> No.20650788

>>20650757
If they provide a valid contribution to the likelihood that one of their relatives carrying similar genes will pass down said genes, yes.

For example: if homosexual men happen to help their sisters score sexually desirable males, and said sisters carry homosexuality-related genes, then said genes get passed down.

>> No.20650790

>>20650757
If they improve the fitness of genetic relatives who share their genes, I guess so, yes.

>> No.20650794

>>20650788
What if the homosexual gets stoned by the church before he gets to help his sister?

>> No.20650796

>>20650634
>We JUST had that thread YESTERDAY.
If I recall correctly that thread had the conclusion of "If it is OK with your DM and every other player then you can. If anyone objects drop it and don't be a dick about it."

Well I did leave the thread after that so it might have spiralled into shit.

>> No.20650797

>>20650700
>pic related

Also, lets just assume it was nothing fetishistic, just some "lol randum" she pulled off. So now you have a player who derailed the entire campaign for teh lulz. And all the players went along with it.

>> No.20650803

>>20650783
There are numerous homosexuals who have had children outside of their preferred gender. This was especially common before homosexuality became accepted; the best defence against accusations of "sodomist" was "I have a wife and kids asshole."

>> No.20650807

>>20650783

Gene's aren't the only thing that contributes to human evolution as a species anymore. Culture and enviroment do as much to shape a person as genes.

You can still pass down a lot to children that aren't your own.

>> No.20650811

>>20650794
Then his genes are only spread if his sister still procreates, at which point they may linger if they don't prove a hindrance, and may spread further if they help or don't hinder a later generation.

>> No.20650813

>>20650790
That only works if their relatives are genetically identical to them.

Homosexuality is potentially beneficial for the genetic fitness of the population, but it is detrimental to the genetic fitness of the individual.

>> No.20650817

>>20650797
Then the DM did nothing wrong still because his actions were also 4tehlulz

>> No.20650836

>>20650755
You know what stops overpopulation? Famine. That's how every single species on Earth does it (because nature is pure evil), and one homosexual offspring in 50 won't do shit to prevent that outcome.

>> No.20650840

>>20650813
As long as the genes carried are identical or near-identical the genes in question may pass between relatives for generations.

Just like red hair, it doesn't have to be beneficial to personal reproduction to linger in the gene pool.

>> No.20650847

>>20649377

In a way, you are right OP. If the PCs were given knowledge of an "end of the world" scenario and decided to not share the information, nor do anything about it, then they should suffer the consequences of their actions.

HOWEVER, I disagree heavily with your execution. Players tend to forget important points, in my experience, and need reminders now and then. Have them hear increasing rumors of empty graveyards or suspicious attacks on churches as they fight against the monarchy. As the war goes on, common people start whispering of towns disappearing and curiously empty battlefields. An incredibly small minority start fleeing major towns and occasionally, divine orisons fizzle out.

Then, you pull the undead blitzkrieg while the PC's are signing the law. Describe the putrid tide of dead monarchists and freedom fighters that washes over the walls and drags down any living thing they catch. Let the PC's escape with injuries and make it clear that the lich is behind it all.

After that point it's up to the players. Personally, I would hope el Presidente would take the threat seriously and rally her nation. Open up the possibility of a cease-fire or an unsteady peace with any remaining monarchists and other nations. You could steer them back towards your initial scenario and still keep everyone happy.

>> No.20650856

>Thread starts out funny
>Tumblr social justice comes in

God damn it, stop acting like /co/

>> No.20650866

>>20650856
Hush. We're discussing evolutionary theory.

Next stop: game mechanics.

>> No.20650875

>>20650813
They don't need to be totally identical, they just need to share the relevant bits. Selfish gene theory and all that.

I'm out of my depth here, so more hive-girls.

>> No.20650881

>>20650847
Somehow I'm reminded that one Simpsons episode. Just replace Hank Scorpio with the lich and the party with a bunch of Homers.

>> No.20650891

>>20650847

The second possibility depends on your relationship with the players and their interest in continuing that campaign. If there's still good feelings and they want another go, then just set a new campaign in a post-lich world. Have the players be freedom fighters and some of the last heroes left in the land. The kingdom is in shambles and lives under the iron heel of the lich, but the enslaved populace still remembers a band of heroes (or villains) that liberated them from their king. And just take it away from there.

>> No.20650892

>>20650769
>the trend towards racism on 4chan is getting kinda worrying (a couple years ago it was mostly done ironically and to offend newfriends, now 90% of the time it's serious),

Only on /pol/, which pretty much serves as 4chan's sewer. It keeps the shit out of sight.

>> No.20650893

Totally with the DM on this. I think the fact that this was about gay marriage is what's getting everyone riled up. Replace gay marriage with 'setting up a resort at the local lake' or 'importing cows so local taverns would have better beef' or whatever and it's the same basic principle. Ignore massive plot points that are expressly laid out (not just small details) and it can come to bite you in the ass later.

>> No.20650895

>>20650875
Oh man, if bees and ants formed an alliance, the world would be fucked.
Quite literally if they were beegirls and antgirls

>> No.20650906

>>20650893
I like it, but I feel the execution was a little weak. Unless he was dropping hints on a regular basis (which wouldn't surprise me), in which case this is Totally Justified.

>> No.20650919

>>20650895
Bees as air force, ants as the army, naturally.

And the navy? These guys.

>> No.20650931

Well, 230 posts and we're still (vaguely) on the topic of OP's story, that's pretty impressive.

Anyways, if you're still here, DID you give your players any forewarning midway through their new quest about the undead menace?
What where the specifics of the ritual, 'gradual grow in power' thing or 'ritual's done, I win, new era of darkness' thing?
Cause while an army gatecrashing their election is funny as hell in a story on /tg/, your players probably feel slighted by this, and if you didn't, having some background NPCs nervous because the village of Bumfuck,nowhere was razed by undeads instead of regular troops could've been a good sign to them.

>> No.20650933

>>20650919
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BHEkjBDWKs
Bees are fucking smalltime

>> No.20650935

>>20650895
>Quite literally if they were beegirls and antgirls

Dressed in bee-kinis.

...
I'll get me coat.

>> No.20650947

>>20650895
You realise, of course, than ants are Team Musclegirl of the insect kingdom.

>> No.20650950

>>20650935
>bee-kinis
I ant handle such such wit.

>> No.20650955

your one sick bastard OP but dammit i like your style,

>> No.20650962

Being gay is't genetic. It's neurochemical. There are far more then just genetics that influence a nevrous system's makeup. For example I know of a woman who thanks to a childhood trauma, had a large consistant dose of testosterone delivered into her system pre-puberty. This led to a much more masculine facial and bone structure and led to far more facial hair development. These were not genetic, her other female relatives, looked nothing like her. It can be similar with homosexuality. Continued chemcial releases, can lead to a far increased likelihood in homosexual tendencies then just genetics. Genetics may increase the likelihood, but similar to not making you a decent runner, or not making you a great musician, it can help, but it does not determine.

That being said, it is still not a choice like trying to be a great musician or trying to be a great runner. It isn't a choice. It s series of chemical reactions that happen during your development, from conception onward. Science hasn't indentified the chemicals, because there seems to be no society wide desire to fix the imbalance. Rather then try to help those suffering the imbalance, modern society has turned it into a lifestyle choice. One that they say should be allowed the same rights as a heterosexual lifestyle choice. Whether is is correct or incorrect is irrelavant to the truth of the situation.

As the old cartoon said, "Knowing is half the battle."

>> No.20650968

>>20650947
You realize, of course, that musclegirls are my fetish.
>/r/ing musclegirl antgirl

>> No.20650979

>>20650968
but that can't happen
insects have exoskellingtons

>> No.20650985

>>20650919
I thought we were sticking with hivebeasts. Besides, the nazy would just be a bunch of antgirls voltron-ing themselves into whatever ship they needed.

>> No.20650990

>>20650962
i have yet to see proof of what youre saying. would you please post some?

>> No.20650993

>>20650962
I wish they'd abandon those homosexual fucks and cured my pedophilia.
Seriously, it ain't cool.

>> No.20650995

>>20650979
But antgirls dont. Though, I can totally work with lithe, skinny girls who are frighteningly strong.

>> No.20650996

>>20650962
Eh, I see macho gay dudes and pretty lesbians often enough.

Gay couples tend towards the butch/femme stereotype but not always.

>> No.20651012

>>20650993
Just get a jail sentence and make it clear to everyone you're a pedophile. They'll cure the shit out of you there.

>> No.20651014

>>20650962
>Science hasn't indentified the chemicals, because there seems to be no society wide desire to fix the imbalance. Rather then try to help those suffering the imbalance, modern society has turned it into a lifestyle choice.

wat

modern society says exactly what you are saying (that homosexuality ISN'T a choice). and people don't 'suffer' from homosexuality because it doesn't cause them any harm (besides the harm inflicted upon them by other people).

calling it an 'imbalance' is slightly inaccurate as well. it's not like there is a particular specified amount of these chemicals that all humans are supposed to receive.

>> No.20651015

>>20650996
his post had literally nothing to do with what you just said

>> No.20651017

>>20651012
But being a pedophile is not a crime, anon.

>> No.20651036

>>20651017
he didnt say that your sentence had to be for pedophilia.

>> No.20651050

>>20651036
Hm.
Do those prison-rapey types distinguish "gets aroused by some children" and "fucks children"? Which ones do they prefer?

>> No.20651059

>>20651017
No, so you just need to do something that'll get you a jail sentence. Constant beatings are bound do go Pavlovian on you. Just remember to think about all those kids while they're at it. In a few years kids should mean nothing to you but vicious beatings and take away all those feelings away.

>> No.20651064

>>20651050
they probably dont, but i havent asked them. they would probably prefer you just getting aroused, and not actually fucking them.

>> No.20651069

>>20651050
Not prison-rapey types, prison-stabby types. Convicts fucking hate pedos.

>> No.20651070

OP here. Let me just clear some stuff up.

>Just how explicitly was the threat of the Lich laid out in the beginning of the campaign?
Very. The players were the only ones who knew of it and all had in-character motives to want to personally stop the Lich ("I've been tracking this Lich for years", "I love a good fight!", "There will be riches, yes? Also avoiding the undead apocalypse sounds good too"), stuff like that.

>Did you at least hint about the Lich's rise to power?
Nope. There was nothing to hint, since there was nothing subtle to the effect of the ritual. The ritual made all dead simultaneously rise (also explained to the party at the start). In the actual scene, I described as the clouds gathering in one seamless layer of dark cloud and the freshly buried dead from the siege of the city rising from the mass graveyard, along with skeletons from those long dead and basically giving the city whatfor. The ritual was complete pretty much right at the moment they signed the law.
So yeah, hinting that the dead were gradually rising here and there would have contradicted what I told them in the beginning. Couldn't really be subtle about it.

>Was the player motivated by her fetish for gay sex?
Even before the campaign, I knew she was vocal about things like gay rights, feminism, basic tumblr shit, etc., but I didn't expect her to derail the campaign over it. Though, I wouldn't rule out that she probably has a thing for gay dudes, too. She maintains that her motive was social justice.

Any thing else that needs to be cleared up?

>> No.20651076

>>20651059
What if I get into lolidom?
That would be counter productive.

>> No.20651084

>>20650985
I was short on swimming insects and floating antpiles don't really work for world domination.

>/r/ing musclegirl antgirl
Can't find anything, sorry.

>> No.20651085

>>20650990
Start here, they are for beginners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virilizing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixation_(psychology)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosexual_development

Then start taking actual courses or follow the book trail yourself. You too can become educated.

>> No.20651105

>>20651084
>floating antpiles don't really work for world domination.
Don't they? It would be like a rokk from 40K, but made out of delicious muscly antgirls. There would be no survivors.
>Can't find anything, sorry.
Thats why we need a drawfag to get in on this. In the meantime I will include monstergirls in all my posts on the matter.

>> No.20651107

>/r/ing musclegirl antgirl

Superhero is the best I can do.

>> No.20651119

>>20651070

>She maintains that her motive was social justice

And yet she didn't elevate the peasants and commoners?

God damned first world scum.

>> No.20651128

>>20651070
Just how moist was she during all this?

>> No.20651148

She's called 'Ant'. Google Hanna Washington + ant

>> No.20651188

>>20651148
I guess this is as close as I'm going to get. Time for bittersweet faps.

>> No.20651197

OP again. Probably shouldn't have waited til the thread began to autosage, before jumping back in. Oopsie!

>> No.20651252

>>20651014
Actually, no. Sexuality is BOTH a choice and a imperitive. The choice is to act, the imperitive is the what the neuochemicals are saying you want to do. This isn't binary, one or the other. It's why most homosexuality tends to express itself in stages of experimentation and acceptance by those your suffer it. They try something, it feels right/good and they try again. With acceptance of their state happening slowly over time. No one wakes up gay, and no one decides they are gay from word go. It's like all human sexuality, experimatation followed by reward/failure.

That being the case, you cannot deny that the species, chemically cannot continue if homosexuality becomes the statistical majority. If heterosexuality was to go that route the amount of deaths could easily start to increase over the rate of births and therefore you have eventual extinction baring use of scienctific processes to prolong the species. That being the case, homosexuality is not healthy from a species standpoint. It is infact an imbalance.

Now is it a life ending imbalance, no. Is it a threatening imbalance, no. Is it really even an important imbalacne in the grand scheme of things, no. Humankind has had homosexuality since time immemorial. It hasn't destroyed it yet. But it is now, something we could fix, if we had a soceity wide desire to. Just like other neurochemical imbalances, it could be solved, if we wanted to. Now I would prefer they focus on say Alzheimers, or cancer for their research, but they could start researching a cure for homosexuality if instead of a lifestyle choice, or a definitive predetermined condition, they treated as it is. A mental disease.

>> No.20651731

>>20650298
That would be YURI
Yaoi is gay men doing gay things.

>> No.20651910

>>20651252
Only a small portion of the population is homosexual and will never be the majority and if was there is this handy dandy thing we call artificial insemination.

>> No.20651947

>>20651910
The point was to show that homosexuality, in a completely unbiased, scientific matter, is imbalanced. Of course it counldn't happen, and I even stated about using scientific processes to halt the population slide that might happen if it did.

Do you actually read a post before you comment on it? You do you just like seeing your own stupidity posted on the internet?

>> No.20652304

So, now that the thread is dead and everything, I did this.

>> No.20652388

>>20652304
I'm still here to appreciate it and I love it.

>> No.20653004

Damn OP... Can I play in your campaigns? You seem like a fun person.

>> No.20653429

>>20653004

>>
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