/tg/ - Traditional Games

Males only, only during day, can only move without limbs (e.g. rolling around like a ball, rolling around like a stick, during a fall, etc.)

>>20260735
what the fuck?

anyway op, take your pic. you could easily make up something for the dudes. some sort of animal friend skill to represent druidic ancestry or something. if you really care about the fluff anyway, you should probably keep it the way it was. WoW sort of wrecked everything so.

You know you could probably still find copies of the old pre-WoW rpg online.

>>20260735
You're an asshole, but that's a hilarious image.

>>20260754
It's raw 3.5ish d20.

>>20260753
idk much about the back fluff to be honest. More than far most people grinding to 80 probably, but that's not saying much. Like how the Dwarfs were built by titans.

I'm not concerned so much about strict accuracy, but whether or not there was a fluff reason that only females could do it. If it was just game mechanics then too, I don't see a reason why males shouldn't have it too; and let that be that.

Though giving them the ability to talk to Beasts or something would be good too.

>>20260782
don't know if it's written down like that, just know that most WC3 female night elf units could cloak at night. the archers in particular were real bastards because of that, and a few other units, too. like i said, it's your call. variety is always good, imo.

That 'females only' thing reminds me of how many female only prestege classes I have seen and the only 'males only' prestege class I have seen was eunuch warlock or whatever.

The males couldn't do it because all the males in WC3 were trees or druids who DIDN'T GIVE A FUCK because nigger I just turn into a raven and fly away or turn into a bear and fuck your face off.

Make all night elves able to do it during night only. WoW only lets you do it in the daytime for balance reasons and because their day/night cycle is tied to real life.

IMO, it should really only work in the woods, but they let WC3 units do it on any tileset for balance, but Tyrande Whisperwind outright says that it's an ability granted by the Night Elf goddess Elune, so I guess it's a superpower that can be used anywhere.

Maybe allow it to be used during the day if there's something that would cause shadows.

The existing World of Warcraft campaign book lists it as such. Note that this requires at least 1 level in the "Night Elf" class (akin to taking creature levels as a monster race in 3.5).

>Shadowmeld (Su): At night or in low-light environments, the night elf gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Stealth checks while stationary.

you goanna have all the races?

I wanna make a paladin panda.

>>20260849
Why not give them a (Su) Hide in Plain Sight instead of a high bonus? It'd be more apt to the original ability, though I admit the +10 to stealth would be a pretty cool way of refluffing lawlinvisible-elf to ridiculously stealthy special forces.

OP, this sounds like a nifty process, want to make a thread of it, or just take the Nelf one and go?

My vote for the Gnome's Escape Artist would be a 1/day Iron Heart Surge

>>20260864
If you can back that shit up with a killer backstory, I don't care how many fluff faux-pas' you make.

However, OP mentioned that it's set in a pre-WoW, post-WC3:TFT kinda thing.

>>20260875
The Panderan Brewmaster, while a bit of a joke character, was an available hero unit as a mercenary in the context of the Warcraft 3 Expac. Being a brewmaster who impressed the dwarfs of ironforge with their own brews and concoctions while taking in their love of The Light and their pride in the dwarvan culture could work; kind of a reverse Avatar-The-Last-Dance-With-Wolves-And-Blue-People (in Ferngully)

I'd stick to the Warcraft 3 version, but that's just my personal bias.
In Warcraft 3 the females were warriors, so it made sense that only they would get the warrior related skill. And if they can use their special powers during the day there's not much point in calling them night elves, is there?

And if the males really need a skill of their own, give them the power to summon a wisp once a night to go scout for them or fix broken equipment or sacrifice themselves to dispell magic. It's appropriately druidic and still potentially useful.

>>20260898
But up until WoW, paladins were human-only. Sometimes half-elves.
The Silver Hand wasn't big on racial tolerance, apparently. Tirion Fordring got excommunicated for helping an elderly old orc.

>>20260927
The Silver Hand aren't the only paladins though. There's the Argent Dawn, the Scarlet Crusade, all those little mini factions from the WC3 undead campaign, Garithos and his merry band of assholes etc.

>>20260960
The Argent Dawn and Scarlet Crusade got a lot of their paladins after Arthas disbanded the Silver Hand. The Paladins were founded as a human-only group under the tutelage of the Archbishop of Northshire. Uther probably didn't mean for it to be a human-only party, it just didn't catch on as much to have warrior-priests until it was show to be a viable way to turn back the demons and provide battle-field healing as they did in Warcraft 2.

To answer questions on races/classes/setting,

Post WC III, pre WoW, would be about as close as I could get too. I'm not going for a specific period necessarily, but that would be an appropriate approximation.

Definably doing the 8 main races from WoW, will probably do Drani and B.Elfs too. Goblins, Worgren, and Pandarwins seem more like part of the world than part of the party; if that phrasing makes sense. Probably won't stat H.Elfs as player races either, for the same reason.

All vanilla classes, with the Vanilla wow restrictions.
If I put in Dranaei and B.Elfs then I'll look more into whether or not they should be pseudo-shamans and paladins.

>>20260915
Well now I'm torn. I was just going to give everyone shadow meld, but that sounds really neat. I just don't think there was a fluffy reason why only women were capable of doing it.

SO, CURRENTLY NIGHT ELFS WILL READ LIKE THIS
Night Elf
-2 Str, +3 Agi, -1 Stam
+1 Dodge, +2 vs Nature, Receive +2 to stealth at all times. Receive +10 to reactive Stealth checks if they did not move during their last turn, and are in a dark area. Low Light Vision.

>>20261040
The fluff reason why the men didn't shadowmeld was a social one; the menfolk were to be druidic sages, learning the ebb and flow of nature and being at peace with it. The women were warriors, hunters, soldiers and the like; the few exceptions were the priestesses, and even they took part in the Sentinel's duty. The Sentinels were the predatory aspect of nature, emphasizing stealth and violence, while the druids emphasized harmony and healing. More so, most of those druids had been asleep for the better part of 10k years, meaning that Shadowmelding may have just been a technique that the Sentinels developed in that time; also meaning that it could be something taught to the awakened druids after the incidents at Hyjal that called for an end to their immortality and the night elf's situation was such that they needed Everyone they could spare in more martial standing rather than mystics.

>>20261040
Maybe they could all potentially shadowmeld but only the warrior caste (ie the women) really actively hone their skills while the spellcasting males resort to magic to solve all their problems and lose touch with their natural abilities.
So maybe it shouldn't be a gender thing but a class thing, I dunno.

>>20261089
Neat.
So, what if, Women all get Shadowmeld, and Men get to chose between Shadowmeld and Summon Wisp?

ALSO
Since there are apparently people here evidently more versed in the fluff, I'm going to post the standing racail profiles real quick.

Str = Str, Agi=Dex/Cor, Stam=Con, Int=Int, Spirit=Wis/Cha.

>>20261153
DWARF
+2 Str, -4 Agi, +3 Sta, -1Spr
+2 vs Frost, Proficiency: Mace, Proficiency: Gun, +2 Search, Stone form (Remove bleed/poison/disease, +5 Armor, lasts Spirit Bonus rounds).

GNOME
-4 Str, -1 Sta, +4 Intelligence.
+5 Mana, +4 Escape Artist, +4 Engineering, Prof: Daggers.

HUMAN
-1Int, +1 Spirit
+2 Diplomacy, Prof: Sword, Prof:Mace, +2 Awareness.

NIGHT ELF
(as above atm)

Unrelated question on night elf fluff, what exactly is the Sentries' role in night elf society?
In WC3 they guard Illidan and later help Maiev track him down. Are they like an internal affairs/military police division for the Sentinels or an entirely seperate group? And who is the higher authority, the wardens or the priestesses?

Men don't get Shadowmeld cause it's a gift from their goddess and she's a bitch?

>>20261222
Men don't get shadowmeld because the night elf goddess is actually a feminazi green dragon queen in disguise.

>>20261153
ORCS
+3 Str, -3Agi, +2 Sta, -2 Int
Blood Fury (like a minor rage), + Spirit Bonus to Pet Command Range, Prof: Axes, Prof: Fist Weapons, -1 Round to the duration of all moment impeachment.

TAUREN
+3 Str, -4 Agi, +2 Sta, -2 Int, +1 Spr
+2 on Charges, +5 Hp, Knowledge: Herbology +4, +2 vs Nature.

TROLLS
+1 Str, +1Sta, -3 Int, +1 Spr
Berserk (Extra attack, and AoO until beginning of next turn), Health Regen +1, +1 Damage vs Beasts, Prof: Thrown, Prof: Bow.

UNDEAD
-2 Str, -2 Agi, +2 Sta, -2 Int, +4 Spr
+2 vs Fear/Sleep/Charm/Shadow, Double breath duration, Can eat raw food, and has to eat and drink half as often

>>20261190
I think you mean the Wardens. Maeve's group was dedicated to guarding and imprisoning Illidan and other dangerous folks left over after the War of the Ancients; immortality for their race meant the problematic ones as much as the regular folks.

The Night elves are a theocracy; the Druids rule in matters of nature, and the priestesses rule in matters of divinity; the end result is that the druids hold sway over the social process, and culture, while the Priestesses and the sentinels hold sway over the actual politics and military matters. With Tyrande and Malfurion both leading, it ends up being an evenly split theocratic dictatorship with right to rule being determined by one's connection to nature or to the divine (elune).

>>20261255
>>20261189
>>20261153
So what about,
Night Elf
-2 Str, +3 Agi, -1 Sta
+1 Dodge, +2 vs Nature, Receive +2 to stealth, Low Light Vision.
Women - Shadowmeld(passive): Your stealth bonus increases to +10 when you are in a ‘dark’ area, and did not move on your previous turn. You maintain this superior bonus until you move, or are exposed or illuminated.
Men - may chose Shadowmeld, or Summon Wisp(daily): Summon a wisp to your side. It can fly 3-10 feet off of a surface. During it’s time on our plane it may: Heal 1d6 health, repair 1 item of uncommon complexity or more, or re-charge one magic item. If does any three of these special tasks, it immediately returns to the spirit plane.

>>20261384
*Call Wisp(daily): Summon a wisp, as a pet, to your side
* uncommon complexity or less

>>20261403
>>20261384

More so than that, assuming Male Night Elves can be other classes than druids, why not make it so only N. Elf Druids can summon the wisp whether male or female. This means that a player isn't limited in gender during character creation, but it instead alters the race class combination.

This could easily be written off as the Night Elf Druids having never learned or been able to use Shadowmeld as discussed preciously, while allowing non-Druids the ability to Shadowmeld as if they had learned it previously? It's not the most lore-friendly explanation I've ever heard, but to me it seems fitting, and fair.

>>20261908
It's one of those ideas I was thinking to hard to have.

>>20261255
No plainsrunning for taurens?
I always thought taurens having a mount was really stupid, especially if it's the same beast that is also their main source of food and clothes. Humans don't eat horses and orcs don't eat wolves.
Also I just find the idea of a pack of minotaurs charging at you at 40 mph on foot infinitely more terrifying then them casually riding around on some cuddly peaceful derpysaurus.
Unless you bring back the kodos eating people thing from WC3. That was really cool.

So, what exactly are you trying to do OP? Translate the existing games to some other system? or just redo the system entirely?

Cause you know what is basically the 1e version is kind of exactly as you describe. WoW hasn't happened, it takes place just after TFT. Stil. D&D 3.5.

>>20262270
I'm just interested in a more mechanically 'fun' version, rather than a crunchy, messy, wish-washy, super casters 3.5 game.
Skills like pathfinder, spells/abilities in the vien like 4e, no feats, all fairly simplified. More character oriented, but still with fun flash.

Also, I could screen shot the messy Warlock pages I just finished, if anyone's interested.

A quickly doctored example of what the intended outcome will resemble.

>>20262693

"runs the gambit"

i gamut is the word you're looking for here ;)

>>20263679
Gambit works too I believe.

On an unrelated note, I can't find a picture of a Night Elf that matches what I'm using for the other races. Not even official line-art that I can sepia tone myself.

bumpan

>>20264556
Here's the gnome one.

>>20264556
No, it doesn't. Run the gambit makes really no sense.

>>20264811
DID SOMEONE SAY GNOMES

>>20264831
Isn't a gambit like a gamble, or risky plan?

Hummans.

Still picture-less elfs.

>>20265012
see the error in tenacious.

I'll monitor this thread, post the other races when I get them all finished if it's still here then (whenever it is).

You know I just realized why the war between the horde and alliance is so bloody.

They're all veterans. Veterans of the worst shit imaginable. Everyone there survived a zombie apocalypse and then a demonic invasion from hell. It's not a wonder that all of their battle are to the death affairs and neither side will budge. Their soldiers battled the undead and demonic legions of hell from another plane of existence. There's nothing that can frighten them anymore.

>Monks. warisks
Captcha is trying to tell me something about the risks of war and monks. I'm not sure what.

If this is still an issue, I could explain!

Basically here's how it went down.

Traditional night elf society only had Women as the hunter, gatherers, and warriors. While the Men all devoted almost most of their time learning druidism.

This caused a seperation between their skills and what not- ALL nightelves can actually do shadowmeld, it's a natural ability of theirs because they're fucking purple/dark blue.

Shadowmeld is essentially just a nightelves naturally ability to blend in with the jungle, tall grass, or forest.

The only reason males couldn't do it is that their yigerous years of study and magical prowess has left them mildly awkward when it comes to their own naturally abilities- ironically.

In world of warcraft though fluff is usually fuzted.

Female Night Elves are actually taller then Male night Elves with a few exceptions and for the most part their entire subspecies is much more muscular then any high elf/blood elf.

I'd want to play as a Dryad or Keeper of the Grove.
Is that strange?

>>20265116
> Female Night Elves are actually taller then Male night Elves
You got anything to back that up? I'm shooting for some accuracy here, so fill me in.

>>20260763

Yes, and the first edition of the Warcraft RPG was also 3.5ish d20.

>>20265163
In the books the women are described as typically being taller than the men.

Look, here. This. This is what you want.

>>20260716
I would say only at night, everyone, no movement, but if they have a stealth skill it gives that a bonus to remain relevant. (night elf rogues are kinda pointless in wow depending on patch compared to other ones)

You'll run into another issue though. Players that played WCIII will kill all male druids on sight because they are the biggest assholes in the WC universe...and were some of the most annoying fotm players later on too.

>>20265231
>>20265183
I am
>>20260763
I'm not a fan of 3/3.5, and am shooting for something that's actually fun to play.

>>20265243
It's post WC III, pre/vanilla WoW. The NE Druids are mellowing out.

>>20265231
Yes, I can see the resemblance.

>>20265147
>>I'd want to play as a Dryad or Keeper of the Grove.
>>Is that strange?
"Keeper of the Grove" is a title not a race, you might thinking the "Sons of Cenarius" which are quite few in number, dryads who are the "Daughters of Cenarius" are much more common.

Also it is not strange but might not be appropriate rules wise.

>>20265244
Now, before it comes back to bite me in the ass, I'm going to say I don't hate the whole of d20. Mutants & Masterminds, 2e, Pathfinder, and Gama World are all fine games.

3/3.5 in particular I have issues with. I'll grab the Warcraft RPG and give it a once over, to make sure I'm not wasting my time completely; but odds are I would enjoy this one more. Regardless, I don't plan to do more than the Races and Classes atm. I'd go into modified skill lists and the different professions latter, and only if there was a fair interest or response.

>>20265231
Actually, no. The Warcraft D20 game plays just like D&D does. It actually does a pretty poor job of portraying Warcraft.
My biggest gripe is the Paladin and Fighter who are cut-and-pasted from D&D, right down to Paladins being able to fall from grace.
It even has vancian spellcasting. It wasn't until the World of Warcraft suppliment that spell points were implemented.

>>20260716
So Every Man For Himself is still gonna be broken?
Because a spell that breaks all negative effects on you and can be used while mind controlled/cced is kind of bullshit in most systems.

>>20265428

YOU FORGOT HOW DRUIDS GOT TURN ANIMALS, BUT THEY FORGOT TO ALTER THE "DESTROY" PART.

"DON'T WORRY GUYS, I'LL SPOOK 'EM OFF!"

>>20265147
Deer bitches were hot....though the head of the Sons was kinda gross in origin story even for mythology.

>>20265442
Just movement hindering effects and fears not all negative effects. It was still OP in WoW because it gave a free trinket slot in that system, but toss a hard time limit on it and I can see it working in DnD

>>20265442
Most of what I'm putting is doesn't go past BC, though there are a few things I like that will be in there; such as Victory Rush for Warriors.

Also, here are the horde stats for now; if anyone's interested.

>>20265428

>paladin
>copy pasted from 3.5

I don't think you have ever actually looked at the god damn book.

>>20265512
The original book? Yeah. Sure, it has the seals for spells. But it has smite, aura of good, fearlessness and all the rest of the class features. It wasn't until the second or third World of Warcraft supplement that the Paladin was changed to resemble the ones in World of Warcraft.
Kudos to them for creating the racial variants for Paladins however. Giving human paladins free weapon focus into hammers was pretty nice to see.

>>20265536

I will give you the original one is pretty similar. Also, there are I think nearly half a dozen variants on the class if you include "Even more magic and mayhem". But fuck its been a while since i've looked at some of those books.

The racial variants, racial iconic classes, and racial levels are I think one of the high points of the WoWRPG as something the rest of 3.x could have done better.

In Character Creation, you pick a Race and a Class; duh. There is no multi-classing. However, you can put ranks in Class Skills of other classes, just at double the cost.

Class Skills are different. Largely, they're like the talent trees in WoW. They often do things to your rolls on their own, and act as the primary qualifiers for Class Spells or Abilities. EX: Every warlock Starts with Shadow Bolt and Demon Skin. If you get your Demonology and Studies: The Plains to 4, your Demon Skin automatically upgrades to Demon Armor. To continue with Demonology as an example. The requirement for the different demons you summon (and I'm pulling the exp numbers out of my ass, for the sake of example), will be something like:
Summon Imp: Demonology 1, Studies: The Plains 2.
Summon Void Walker: Demonology 2, Studies: The Plains 3.
Summon Succubus: Demonology 4, Studies: The Plains: 3.
etc
SO, the second you meet any of those requirements, have a chance to rest for at least 24 hours in a town that has a residing Warlock 'trainer' (for lack of a better phrase), the Summoning Spell in question is automatically added to your grimoire.

If a Warrior got Demonology 1, and Studies: The Plains: 2, then he would gain the ability to cast Summon Imp. And yes, unless he has a Grimoire to record the spell in, if he forgets it, he'll have to go back to a town and learn it again. However, lets say the advances cost double the skill's current value, then while it costs the Warlock a mere 3 Experience Points to gain the ability to summon an imp, it would cost the Warrior 6. and from there, 7 more to get a Void Walker (While the warlock only needs 5). Also, non casters can only memorize a number of spells equal to their Int Bonus, so a Warrior will likely only be able to remember 1-3 spells at a time.

>>20265904
Also, you'll only be able to access the basic spells/abilities through the cross-class skilling. So, in this case, Non-Warlocks will not be able to get Affliction/Destruction/Demonology specific spells, just the 'basic' Warlock spells.

What the hell are "The Plains". Make it the Twisting Nether, if it's going to be the place between worlds.

Undead don't need to eat, sleep, drink or breathe at all; they can just do it for the sake of game balance.

>>20266042
There are different dimensions in the Warcraft fluff.

First off, ignore WoW. WoW is shit. Now, onto the questions:
A. Females only. Males get some sort of animal kinship thing going on to reflect their Druidic nature
B. They should be able to move at a reduced rate of movement. Maybe reduce the movement penalty in forests since they love those leafy bitches
C. They should be able to shadowmeld when there's shadows, be it a cellar, a cave, or a forest at night.

>>20266105
>>20266042
Unless you're saying the study of the different worlds, and the lurching void that combies them should be called Studies: The Nether.

>>20266151
You're extremely late to the party.

>>20260782
>whether or not there was a fluff reason that only females could do it
There was. Only females hunted. Males spent all their time sleeping or turning into bears and sleeping some more. A big part of the WC3 campaign was getting all the NElf males to wake and remember that they're not goddamn bears for fucks sake.

>>20266105
I seem to recall in WC2 there being a hint that there many dark portals to other places and again in early WoW but it never went anywhere.....kinda like the Emerald Dream.

>>20266171
And yet I answered the question.

>>20266158
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's also where most demons live.

Also, on male night elves vs female night elves; make them different races, give the females a level adjust. If you're going with the racial levels thing, give females Shadowmeld and males something else. Maybe big manly pheromones to get all the girls wet.

>>20266182
There are more dark portals in Outland; there's one on the western end of Zangarmarsh, one in Blade's Edge Mountains and one in Nagrand. The one in Zangarmarsh isn't active, and the ones in BEM and Nagrand are demon-controlled.

>>20266364
>>20266182
>>20266105

>Dark Portals

Dark portals do not nessicarily lead to alternate dimensions, they lead to other worlds/planets.

There are currently FOUR dark portals in outland.

1. is an entrance/exit- it's the biggest one and in Hellfire peninsula. Leading to the world of Azeroth.

2. The Second one is in Zangarmarsh. It's one of the three/four portals closed by illidan. It lead to a world conqured by the burning legion. It has since been long abandoned and is sinking into the marsh.

3. The third/second one is at Twilight Ridge in Nagrand. The Few orcs loyal to the burning legion are trying to get the thing back up and running.

4. The Fourth/third one is in Blade's edge mountain at "Death's Door." It's currently under the control of the burning legion, functional, but not connected to any other world yet.

The First dark portal was created by Ner'zul and Mediev on both ends of their respective worlds.

The other portals were created by Ner'zul when the alliance finally made their way into outlands to fuck his shit up. Ner'zul created and open numerous portals so that he could flee and conquer them. Opening that many portals though broke the planet.

>>20266364
Oh I know they are there, but I recall I hint that there were more major ones and more worlds, like it was a big deal and would be part of it later.

>>20266105
>>20266042
>>20265960
>>20265904

There's.

The Twisting Nether- which is basically an Arcane soup dimension. It's a lot like space and blurs into each other. THE GREAT DARK BEYOND- is essentially the vacuum of space though.

When you summon someone or conjure an item you're physically pulling them from wherever they are through the twisting nether.

The Elemental plains are the native homes of Fire, Earth, Water, and Air lords. They're suprisingly livable and full of elementals. The Elemental plains naturally feed into the world to provide.. the elements. And yes, that means both fire and earth, but also shit like magnesium, copper, hydrogen, sulfur, etc..

The Emerald dream is essentially the Elemental/realm of fuckin' nature and dreams. Any Animal- including sentient beings can freely and safely travel through the emerald dream when they sleep.

The Spirit world is the land of the "dead". Whenever you die you can see the entrance to it - It's a huge swarthing vortex in the sky. The only reason you don't get sucked into it is because "you don't want to die."

And then I think that's all of them?

>>20266822

The only world's we know about so far aaarreee...

Azeroth- the one you're on right now pretty much 95% of the time.

The world of darkness that the worgen "used" to be from. Until they fucking just went ahead and changed the fucking lore. It was fine, but whatever.

The Orc's Homeworld of Outland.

The Draenei's homeworld, which is now ruled by the burning legion.

The Ethereal's homeworld, which was literally destroyed by shadow people.

>>20266963
Twisting Nether,
Prime Material,
Great Dark Beyond,
Air, Water, Fire, Earth elemental planes are side-pockets of the prime material, but I suppose they warrant note.
Spirit realm works.

How do you want to classify the alternate time-lines that the Bronze Dragonflight gets to deal with to thwart the Infinite Dragonflight?

Emerald Dream and Emerald Nightmare the same place?

Whatever place the Burning Legion operates out of is probably some hellish dimension; we see some Dreadlords talking in a place like that in a cutscene in WC3 TFT.

>>20267012

The Bronze Dragon flight don't necessarily go into different dimensions per say.

They travel forward and backward and into alternative timelines. So I DO not know at all man. Time Travel is wacky.

>Emerald Dream and Emerald Nightmare

Yes, the Emerald dream and the Emerald Nightmare are the same place. Corruption in World of warcraft however is really "unintelligent" and badly written though, so it isn't clear what it nessicarily means.... But for the most part The nightmare is.. chaotic, corrupted, evil, and other Disney villain labels. The Emerald nightmare seeping into the Material plane caused the rampant growth in the Barrens.

Make of it what you will. The Nightmare though doesn't have anything to do with the burning legion. For the most part it's the deterioration of the Green dragon's "rule/sanity" or some other bullshit.

>The Burning Legion.

The Burning legion are demons that Travel through the Twisting Nether in order to conquer planets.

>>20265904

>Learning shit and cross-classing.

For what it's worth, magic doesn't work exactly the same as is does in other games like dnd or pathfinder in the Warcraft universe.

If you know a spell- you know it. You don't "equip" it sort to speak.

When someone learns Fireball or Frostbolt they learn it like how a Warrior would learn Rend.

This means that virtually anyone can learn magic and basic combat thingies so long as they have the discipline and time.

The only thing getting in the way of someone learning something in the warcraft universe is: ethics, intelligence, patience, and money.

Thats a lot of the reason why magic is not only very prelevent in their world, but mobs often have mixed up or very different class chemistry- they don't get a formal "tutor."

Drek'thar is an excellent example because even though he IS a shaman he also has a number of pages stolen from the spellbooks of Archmages he had killed in the second war in his one book that he sometimes uses.

>>20267231
That is the primary reason I even included the ability to cross Class Skills at all. The Classes are more like a character focus-er rather than a character definer. They're the central point of your character. Their keystone. Around them you build a mural of ability and history from any stones you want, it's just that the proverbial stones for your class are the easiest to get more of.

Someone who dabbles in Martial & Arcane arts is not going to reach the same heights as someone who just focuses on one or the other; but he'll have the edge of adaptability & diversity.


AND, TO RESTATE IT FOR THOSE JUST NOW JOINING US: THE NIGHT ELF THING HAS BEEN SOLVED
It'll be class based.
Hunters, Rogues, and Warriors will get Shadowmeld.
Druids & Priests will get Call Wisp.

> Druids are keepers of the world who walk the path of nature, following the wisdom of the Ancients and Cenarius, healing and nurturing the world. To a druid, nature is a delicate balance of actions, in which even the smallest imbalance can create storming turmoil from peaceful skies. Druids draw their power from this wild energy, using it to change their shapes and command the forces of nature.[1] Traditionally druids chose the path of a specific animal totem. Since the invasion of the Burning Legion, however, most druids have undergone a number of reforms, including encouraging the study of magic from all totems. Druids who do this are known as druids of the wild.

> Traditionally druids chose the path of a specific animal totem.
> Since the invasion of the Burning Legion, however,- the study of magic from all totems.

Do I need to address this, or can i just coppy the WoW Druid?

>>20267999

You can just copy it.

Mainly what you need to understand is that these are sorts of cultural stigmatisms.

Shamanism practiced by Taunka is about bullying and forcing the elements to do shit.

Shamanism practiced by Tauren is about ASKING for things to happen.

Really the only requirement to be a Shaman is to manipulate the spirit of the elements through the use of Mana. Whether you're benevolent or not doesn't matter.

Druidism is the same- the only concern is benefiting and protecting nature. How you do it is up to your culture, heritage, etc..

Grabed one of everything from the Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game.

How exactly do these work together, because from what I've gathered it's only an apt-representation of Warcraft if you use many/all of the books.

>>20268051
Also, 1e, or 2e?

>>20268051

>Wacraft The Roleplaying game.

The Book itself isn't Canon. The Population numbers for zones etc are also very vague and innacurate.

The "fluff" however is usually "alright" so long as you take it with a pinch of salt.

The best possible sources to go to though if you're really at a loss for something is Wowpedia or Wowwiki.

>>20268075
warcraft's canon isn't canon anymore so how far off can it honestly ever be

>>20268476

>Warcraft canon isn't canon.

The Role playing books are written through the perspectives of the people in the warcraft universe... I "think" anyway.

So it has the bonus of revealing information that wouldn't otherwise pop up in the games.

But it's rescricted by the characters misconceptions and personal beliefs.

At least, that's what I heard/read about it.

S'basically written by Brann Bronzebeard or something.

>>20267097
>Emerald Nightmare
There is speculation the Emerald Nightmare is the manifestation of one of the Old Gods corrupting the Emerald Dream.

>>20268042
I always like shamanism fluff. The shaman's power is not actually his own. His powers are favors from the elements granted to him, serving as a conduit to maintain order among the chaos of the elements.

SO, If I'm including Draenei and Blood Elfs, should I let Draenei be pseudo-shamans, and Blood Elfs be dark Paladins?

>>20274857
Also, should I let Gnomes be Warriors?

Keep in mind that Classes don't define your character, just what they're best at.

Also, if I want to break "Religion" (Knowledge: relgion) up into different skills for the differen major religions, what ones should I have?

The Light, obviously, but what else? I wanna make sure all the bases are covered.

>>20274857

Seems just fine. Are you going to be using WoW style Draenei or the 'Broken' Draenei from Warcraft 3?

>>20274891

How about a new "Warrior engineer" class thing, that uses technology to make up for Gnomes small size and lackluster strength?

>>20274949

Well theres;
>Light
>Shadow
>Voodoo
>Shamanism (Elemental worship)
>Druidism (Nature worship)
>Old god worship
>Demon worship (Burning Legion cults)

I may have missed a few.

>>20275480

Oh yeah, there's also Elune worship, but I'm not sure if that would be tied into the Light or what.

Elune worshippers seem to have different powers from standard light worshippers, and Warcraft 3 had no healers that worshipped Elune. I can't remember what the rpg books said about Elune worship.

One of the good things about WoW was Karazhan. Christ I loved that place and all the back story it had. Like the Riders of Deadwind, and how it's somehow responsible for Duskwood going to shit.

Actually the gnome thing is much more similar to Freedom of Movement.

>>20274857

Draenei, draenei have a sort of "second hand" shamanism they picked up from the Broken draenei and the lost ones.

The Broken themselves were taught shamanism by the elements of their broken world itself- it's all rather romantic.

Blood elves/high elves/whatever have "stolen" paladinism and normal paladins.. so either is fine!

>>20274891
Yes, it's fine.

>>20275480
>>20274949

This guy has pretty much all of them Except:
>Titan Worship.
>Elemental Lord Worship.
>Dragon worship.
>Cult of the Damned
>Various Giant animal/ogre/arrakoa spirits worshiped by "animal people".


Also an Engineering Warrior- you may as well just have them be I think it's called a "Tinkerer" a goblin, dwarf, and gnome specific class or something.
Crazy about tech.

>>20275619
Elune is basically the moon.
That's all there's really too it.

The Tauren have a name for her and since they don't worship her it's pretty much just called, "the moon."

>>20274857
I'd say just leave out the fucking spacegoats entirely and leave BElfs as HElfs, but that's just me.

>>20276448

You could still do this and keep the cool lost one/broken Draenei as well.


It would just be pre-burning crusade and the only draenei would be the ones in the Swamps of Sorrow and the Blasted lands.

They were there since the start of the "first" war and have been living off the land in the swamps and the portal burned other lands.

They're incredibly cynical, depressing, untrusting, and homesick. They're amazing assassins, fishermen, warlocks, shamans, and portal makers.

A lot of them are obsessed with portal magic- nothing else arcane.
Just portals.

>>20276418
>>20275480
So what if I did
Knowledge: The Light
Knowledge: The Nether
Knowledge: The Old Gods
Knowledge: Emerald Dream
Knowledge: Voodoo
Knowledge: Dragons
Knowledge: Cults
Knowledge: Titans
Knowledge: Shamanism

>>20276418
>>20275480
I'm keeping in Draenei & Blood Elfs, because I think they're cool. However, when you make a character you get Character Points. Being a Human or Orc costs 1 (because they're the most abundant), being a Blood Elf and Draenei costs 3, and every other race costs 2.

>>20276921

Perfect, no complaints with the knowledge.

What about the "other" races?

Ogres, Furbolgs, Tuskarr (walrus people), Quillboars, The Troll and Tauren variants, and Satyrs?

Not even going to open the can of worms that is the "four-legged or serpent" races.

>>20276921
Personally, I'd tie Voodoo and Shamanism together. If one has a grasp of one concept, it's easy to grasp the other. Loa are Troll Spirit-Gods and operate from the Spirit Realm, so they're directly tied to shamanism.

>>20275619
Quoting the WoW campaign RPG book.

>The Ancients of the Night Elves
>Elune the Moon Goddess is considered Azeroth’s only true deity, but the night elves tend to treat the other Ancients much like deities as well, particularly Malorne the Waywatcher and Cenarius (apparently killed by demon-inspired orcs in the Third War, though some druids and priests claim that his spirit yet lingers, waiting
to take form again).
>Domains: Animal, Healing, War.

It references to "Shadows & Light" for specific descriptions on the Ancients, but the ones I recall are:
Malorne: The Great White Stag, said to be responsible for the creation and nuturing of nature in the world. Likely the most powerful ancient.
Cenarius: Son of Elune and Malorne, Cenarius was the one to teach druidism to the night elves. Patron of nature as a whole. One of the only demigods to act freely outside the Emerald Dream, though was slain at the hands of the demon-empowered Grom Hellscream.
Goldrinn: Appears as a great white wolf. Embodies nature's wrath and fury. Druids that attempt to master Goldrinn's lupine form succumb to rage and are eventually trapped in a cursed half-beast state. This cursed form is that of the Worgen.
Tortolla: Appears as a colossal, ancient tortoise. Embodies nature's endurance and longevity. Said to be as old as the world itself. "He is the patron ancient to all creatures who move effortlessly between land and sea."
Aviana: Mother to all creatures of the sky, Aviana was the one who took her night elven followers and had them "ascend" into the form of harpies, though she was slain during the War of the Ancients. In Aviana's absence, said harpies have grown spiteful and savage, claiming no kinship with the earthbound night elves.

>>20279293

Aessina: Ancient of life, Aessina embodies nature's growth. "She is the soul of the forest, its beating heart, the source of life energy that breaks down stone, devours ancient ruins, and fills dense thickets with mystery and fear."
Agamaggan: The great boar ancient is fearless in battle, known for his bravery and unstoppable onslaughts. Slain by the Pit Lord Mannoroth in what is now the Barrens, it is said wherever his blood fell, giant thorny brambles sprouted from the earth. Worshiped by the quilboar people.
Ursoc and Ursol: These ancients take the form of great brown bears, employing both incredible brawn and mighty shamanistic magic. These two were slain during the War of the Ancients.

Ancients are basically the Emerald Dream's equivalent of Loa, I believe.

>>20279293

Horse ass, I completely forgot about the Ancients!!!!


Ancients are like what Anon was telling us from the Wow rpgs- they're basically physical demigods in the waking world.

The ones he missed though are:

>Ursocc and Ursol.
The Ancient Bear Brothers, they were worshiped by primitive humans, furbolgs, and of course night elves. They made their dens in the forests of Northrend and died in the first war against the burning legion.

>Omen
Omen is the closest ancient to being "mortal" essentially just an englightened animal. He was turned evil by his wounds and trauma from fighting the burning legion and lives in the lack at moonglade.

He isn't worshiped by anyone and is regularly killed and has his body thrown back into the river by adventurers.

>Agamaggan
The Boar Demi-god who fought and died to the burning legion. He was quite literally a humongous razorsharp boar god. He often let the Trolls hunt him for sport- even though they obviously could never hope to kill him.
His blood was splattered over kalimdor and grew huge thorns where it landed. For the most part he is incredibly bitter and frustrated with his quillboar people as they've grown stupid, impatient, and so ignorant that he himself wanders their halls unnoticed.

He happily asks sends mortals on quests to kill and damage the infastructure of the current quillboar society- so that he might wrestle control of it and guide his species.


For the most part Demigods cannot die. Their souls simply get spat out into the emerald dream and they wait things out until they can be reborn into the physical plain.

>>20278845

The Ancients are actually more similar to the Troll Loa, but then again, all "spiritual" stuff is loosely tied in with each other.

>>20279325

Shit, sorry, didn't realize yours was a 2 part.

My apologies.

>>20264925
Yes, which is why it makes no goddamn sense. Gamut refers to the complete range of something; therefore, 'runs the gamut' means it can fall anywhere in aforementioned complete range.

>>20279468
Something else comes to mind. Troll Loa interacting with the Emerald Dream.

I'm not sure of the specifics, but current lore has it so that Gonk (the most stupidly named Loa, and apparently the raptor Loa known as "The Great Hunter") forced the hands of some of the other Loa (Shirvallah, namely) into teaching a handful of Darkspear Trolls how to access the Emerald Dream to gain the gifts that before required sole worship of a given Loa.
That said, it seems the Spirit Realm and the Emerald Dream aren't too far apart.

Speculation abound.