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[ERROR] No.20076894 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Been a long time since we've had one of these.

I'm new to MkII, played Menoth in MkI, and looking to pick up trollbloods. I like Borka and eMadrak, any tips for either?

>> No.20079395

Me and my friend just started playing about a month ago. I let him pick which army he wanted out of the starter box and he went with Menoth. I keep losing every battle with Khador unless my friend plays retarded. What units should I get / any tips for me?

My Khador:
pButcher
pSorscha
Destroyer
Jugg
6 Doom Reavers
5 Man o War Shock
4 Widowmakers
1 War dog

Friend's Menoth:
pKreoss
eFeora
10 Exemplar Errants
6 Choir
1 Vassal of Menoth
1 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon
1 Vanquisher
1 Repenter
1 Crusader
5 Cinerators

Last game I managed to kill 1 EE and damage a warjack before everything of mine was killed and all I had left was pButcher.

>> No.20079553

For some reason, not many on /tg/ play or at least discuss Warmahordes.

>> No.20079691

>>20079553
when it's not... and I hate to generalize, but... when it's not summer, we have a general thread up pretty constantly.

Warmachine gets more hate than warhammer, unfortunately. It gets the same hate as warhammer for general price and "playing with dolls" criticisms, and it gets hate from warhammer fans who think its just a passing phase (its not, and its time you accept that warmachine is kicking warhammer's ass in terms of competitive play).

The other problem is that since there are less people, when one person starts a shitstorm there arent as many people left to talk about it as there would be for warhammer

>> No.20079728

>>20079691
And a shitstorm starts in every thread, inevitably, because this is warmachine, and we play like we've got a pair.

>> No.20079742

>>20079395

Needs more Winter Guard Death Star.

Also Behemoth, Spriggan, and Battle Mechanics.

>> No.20079764

>>20079553
They seem to have gotten it into their collective head that liking WarmaHordes means you hate fun. It's almost like they actually like Codex Creep.

Anyhow!
Wrote a list because I like Warbeasts, what're your thoughts, /tg?

eKaya +3
--Laris -
--Warpwolf Stalker 10
--Feral Warpwolf 9
--Gnarlhorn Satyr 8
--Winter Argus 5
--Gorax 4
Druid Wilder 2
---35pts
Tier 1 Theme: Heavies get Adv Deploy :D

>captcha: evoled getfun

>> No.20079810

>>20079764
I like it, meself.

>> No.20079822

>>20079810
The list, not codex creep. Codex creep is yucky.

>> No.20079851

>>20079553
Wierd, isn't it?

>>20079395
I play Menoth myself, so I'll give you some ideas on what screws me over...

Pbutcher has iron flesh, no? Slapping that onto some medium def infantry, and ramming them into charge lanes/low MAT jacks while you deal with priority targets is always a good idea. Alternatively, just go buy a Winterguard Deathstar.
Iron Fang pikemen are also cheap as chips, and bring reach weapons, which you can use to block off fairly wide charge areas. Menoth don't have much in the way of reach infantry, so you can use your cheap, mediocre units to tie up, and set up charges onto those expensive jacks/cinerators/exemplars. The crit knockdown also scares off heavies who would normally eat the free-strikes.

As usual, get rid of the support units. Choir will cause you real issues. Widowmaker/mortar them early. They're paper thin and die to blasts. The vassal is a bit more of a pain to kill, but a boosted blast will still ruin him.

Oh. And don't forget to jump on Pkreoss if he isn't camping focus. He has 14/15 defences, if I remember right. Without camping focus/defenders ward on himself, you can assasinate him with pretty much anything effortlessly.

>> No.20079924

Critique so long as you can explain it:

35pts
Zaal (+5)
*Cyclops Shaman (5)
*Titan Gladiator (8)
Hakaar the Destroyer (4)
Ancestral Guardian (3)
Ancestral Guardian (3)
Ancestral Guardian (3)
MAX Nihilators (8)
MAX Slingers (6)

>> No.20080036

>>20079924
I would suggest dropping an Ancestral Guardian for Marketh. He's a free hex blast every turn, minimally, and allows Zaal to bank fury and souls a bit more efficiently.

>> No.20080937

Who else thinks the Hyperion looks better this way?

>> No.20080957

>>20080937
How the...

Looks like I didn't save the pic.

>> No.20081138

Someone previously posted up this list in a Warmahordes general, I don't think anyone confirmed if it was any good or not though lol. If it is I'll no doubt use it.

Points: 35/35

Zevanna Agha, the Old Witch of Khador (*3pts)
* Behemoth (13pts)
Great Bears of Gallowswood (5pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts)
Manhunter (2pts)
Manhunter (2pts)
Widowmaker Marksman (2pts)

>> No.20081176

>>20081138
I think it's plenty good. It's got a decent amount of case-cracking and plenty of targets for her various synergies, and wont suffer too hard against ranged lists or high defense targets. Watch out for pure heavy lists like Karchev, Absylonia, Darius, Harkevich, pMorghoul, Rasheth, Doomshaper, etc.

>> No.20081270

>>20081138
not a bad list

I'd cut marksman for gorman (she needs stealth to get a good feat turn) and replace either WM or mannies with Aiyana and Holt for magical weapons

>> No.20081282

>>20079924
I like the abuse of soul converter. I like it alot.

Need defense vs. Ranged, dude. Cygnar and Retribution players like squishy Casters. A Krea or Brute would help a bit here.

One of my concerns is that it'll be too easy to kill multiple AGs at a time, thus losing you valuable Kovaas opportunities.

As one of three lists? Solid enough. As a take all comers list? Could use some variety. Combined arms is a thing. For a reason.

All day, erry day.

>> No.20081314

I think only one person runs pure heavy (Kharchev) at my FLGS so I should be fine.

>> No.20081392

>>20081282
As one of 3 lists, does it make a decent cryx matchup? I figure no souls, slingers to take down bile thralls, and last-standed gladiator for Terminus should be good, but I haven't had enough practice against decent players with it yet.

Should I try to fit in a Krea for defense vs. ranged, or leave it as it is for a Cryx match?

>> No.20081433

>>20081392
If you can't find the matches you need, hop on Vassal.

It's an excellent tool

>> No.20081538

>>20081392
Are you dead set against pHexy? He's kind of my go to cryxian rapist. Agonizers also really hurt Cryx, in my experience.

Against Terminus? That's a lot of tough troops and an arm 25 caster. I've had a fair bit of luck with eHexy for stealing tokens and blasting away infantry in spades. A Basilisk Drake's spray is kinda crazy when you can use it twice each activation.

Nihilators will help. Slingers might have trouble since they aren't going after def 10 khador jacks.

The gladiator might be able to do it on feat turn. Without Paingivers it'll be a bit more difficult. Swinging 4 damage dice, it'll deal 5 damage to terminus on average per hit.

>> No.20084365

I'd like to run a campaign for the new iron kingdoms RPG and set it in an alternate Warmachine continuity (sometime before Wrath).

Anyone interested?

Blurb on the campaign: the party would be playing a spy ring working for Cygnar in Lael and would be investigating the disappearance of Cygnar Intellegence Corps operatives...

If it makes you feel more badass, your superior can be Allister Caine.

>> No.20084412

>>20084365
Campaign would be on /tg/

Email for interest with a character angle / background. Writing sample would be nice.

>> No.20084881

>>20084365
>>20084412
I want to be a gunmage stormblade.

My Pistols will have bayonets. Stormblade bayonets. So they have lightning shots. So my Dakka has Choppy and my Choppy has Dakka.

>> No.20084925

>>20084881
gb2b Scyrah

>> No.20085785

>>20081538
Well, with character restrictions and pHexy being as close to better in every way as is possible, yeah. I don't understand a lot of your advice though, so if you could explain a bit of it more thoroughly that would be nice.

>Slingers might have trouble since they aren't going after def 10 khador jacks.
The point of the slingers is basically to take out bile thralls, plus the corrosion on their shots is decent Tough insurance.
>Agonizers also really hurt Cryx, in my experience.
Why would agonizers help against Cryx? Literally the only thing they can do against warmachine is stop 'jacks from being allocated focus, and Cryx takes very few 'jacks (Terminus even less than most).

What would you change for a Cryx/Terminus matchup for skorne?

>> No.20086407

>>20085785

Just a quick drive-by FYI: the whole "Cryx doesn't like warjacks" was always entry-level scrub advice and what part of it was ever true is going the way of the dodo. Infantry just aren't better, they just "feel" better to bad players.

>> No.20086506

Hey everyone, new warmahordes player here. I've picked up Skorne, but I'm unsure of my lists. Can anyone give me any pointers or critique?

Zaal & Kovaas
Basilisk Krea
Cyclops Savage
Cyclops Shaman
Aptimus Marketh
Immortals (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer
Ancestral Guardian
Ancestral Guardian
Extoler Soulward
Hakaar the Destroyer
Tyrant Rhadiem


Zaal & Kovaas
Bronzeback
Rhinodon
Gladiator titan
Ancestral guardian
Ancestral guardian
Paingiver beast handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Praetorian Ferox (Leader and 2 Grunts)
Praetorian Karax (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Venator catapult
Venator catapult
Extoller Soulward
Feralgheist

Both lists are 50 points

>> No.20086677

Here's my list 20 points
Hoarluk Doomshaper WB+6
Pyre Troll 5
EBDT 10
Swamp Troll 5
Storm Troll 5
Feralgeist 1
Fire, Earth, Water, Air, Spirit. Together we are Captain planet

Anyone have good Ideas for a storm troll conversion/model?

>> No.20087089

so I'm already over halfway done with building a menoth army cause I only want to run Feora and Thyra with umberguard models. But because my FGS didn't have any menoth stuff that I wanted this week I decided to pick up a bull snapper. and I really liked the model, so I picked up Bloody Barnabas the day after as well as put a Wrong-eye & Snapjaw on order.

So I guess I'm playing gators now, I know they work well with terrain tricks and denying charges, but that was when I used them with circle back in MK1 a full gator man army, how does that work? Also what do the other two casters do (Calaban & Maelok)? They had both of them but I was hesitant of picking them up.

>> No.20087156

>> No.20087197

>> No.20087404

>>20087089

Get Gatormen Posse... or two. That's seriously the key to Gators, they are arguably the best medium infantry in the game.

Gators like to abuse their swamp pits and shallow water when they can, as it makes them absolutely brutal against ranged heavy lists. Gators biggest weakness is dealing with heavy heavy ARM, as they don't have any ways of buffing STR or damage other than debuffs like Parasite(in fact Caliban might have to be the go to warlock against colossals).

Calaban is like a Cryx 'caster. He has debuffs, occulation, and ways to fuck around with the enemie's models. His kit revolves around him casting spells, a lot of spells, and this is most apparent in his feat. Also, if you get in a good position, he has the potential to beat Barnabas in terms of melee damage with the ability Life Trader.

Maelok is about pushing the Gatorman Posse unit to absolutely absurd levels of durability. With Death Pact, Revive, his feat, Spiny Growth, and the upcoming Witchdoctor, Maelok makes the Posse probably the most annoying medium infantry to deal with in the game. It's considered mandatory to most players I've talked to to take at least 2 full units whenever you start building a Maelok list.

>> No.20087650

>>20086407
Can you direct me to any non-mortenebra
Cryx tournament list that has more than 1 non-arc node jack?

No, you can't. Because there aren't. Terminus takes Deathjack, Skarre takes Reaper, and sometimes Denny takes Nightmare. And in all cases, they don't take more than 1 combat jack.

>> No.20087936

Been waiting on a Hammersmith to come into the LGS for ages now, apparantley ye olde metal model has been discontinued and they're replacing it with the new 3-in-one plastic kit. Hopefully it serves me well when it finally fucking gets here.
>>20079553
Last time I tried discussing it I got bitched at because "there's already a thread retard".
>scour all 15 pages of /tg/
>not a single Warmahordes thread in site

>> No.20087957

>>20087650
I would play Scaverous tier 2 in the character restricted format without the Deathjack and instead double Seether, or Seether & Erebus.

Scaverous
-Nightwretch
-2xSeether
-Skarlock

10 Mechanithrall
Necrosurgeon
2x Necrotech
2x Warwitch Siren
Withershadow Combine

>> No.20087981

So I got some Stormblade Infantry. So far they've only served the purpose of getting their asses kicked by spammy Cryx infantry, but I'm fairly new to units so I'm not sure how to properly utilize them. Any tips?

>> No.20088041

Does troll whelps annoyance rule accumulate?
I.E. if someone is attacking within 1" of two whelps is it -2 to attack roles?

>> No.20088064

>>20088041

Rules/spells with the same name don't stack unless they say otherwise.

>> No.20088217

Well, that didn't take long at all for this to die. Little resuscitation is needed.

>> No.20088711

Here seems like a good place to put my pics in.
Earthborn Dire Troll for the win!
I haven't seen a general for a long time.
1/5

>> No.20088724

2/5 EBDT

>> No.20088735

3/5 As you can tell I'm rather proud.

>> No.20088747

4/5

>> No.20088776

5/5 No one ever called me out on not using the Privateer Press Colors.
The way I painted is Hawk Turquoise + Charadon Granite Mix for the base in a 75-25 ratio for the base, mix Scab Red for shading, mix Dheneb Stone for highlights.

>> No.20088848

>>20088776
>>20088747
>>20088735
>>20088724
>>20088711

Thin your paints.

>> No.20088874

>>20087981
Anyone?

>> No.20088876

>>20088848
I get that a lot, I simply don't have the patience.

>> No.20088950

>>20088874
I got nothing.
um... get them fully equiped to a max unit.
Stay on the move, and roll better for lightning arcs.

>> No.20089047

>>20088950

That'll take some doing, our LGS (which I'd love to support) seems to have trouble getting Privateer Press models in for some reason. It took them nearly 2 weeks to get Brisbane in, and I'm STILL waiting for a Hammersmith and Mercenaries book.

>> No.20089069

Want to play exemplar-focused menoth list. What do?

>> No.20089111

>>20079553
as has been said, this is patently untrue. We usually have this thread up and bumped with decent advice, but it is the time of Summerfags, and those of us who know better just go back to painting minis. Like my Conquest I just assembled.

>> No.20089140

>>20089069
Kreoss2 or Severus.

holy shit, all the fucking Exemplars.

>> No.20089204

>>20089140
What's the difference between the two warcasters? I'd look on battlecollege but apparently that's shit. Also idea for a list.

Points: 35/35
Grand Exemplar Kreoss (*6pts)
* Crusader (6pts)
Exemplar Bastions (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer (2pts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Exemplar Errant Seneschal (2pts)
Exemplar Errant Seneschal (2pts)
Reclaimer (2pts)
Reclaimer (2pts)
The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts)

>> No.20089259

>>20089204
What, I just realized that list has points spent on NOT EXEMPLARS. Replace the reclaimers and wracks with a unit of Knights Exemplars to rectify this.

>> No.20089264

oh, neat, warmahordes.

so what do folks think about the colossals now that we've got the stats for everybody? as a cygnar player i'm giddy about the stormwall. most of my caster love what it brings and what they bring to it. fire group from kara on her feat turn + its combat potential means you don't need to go too heavy w/ your battlegroup and can focus on murdoch boomies + other Assault infantry and gun mages. RAT 4 don't mean jack when you're rollin' 4 dice.

i was thinking about a 50 point list for kara with that bad boy as the centerpiece.

Kara +6
- Stormwall 19
- Sylys 2
Journeyman Warcaster 3
Gun Mages 6
- UA 2
Boomies 9
- Murdoch 2
Laddermore 5
Min. Lances 7
Reinholdt 1

Other option is drop Laddermore + Lances, pick up Storm Strider + Stormsmiths. Refuge + 2 lightning generator shots on the pod the Stormwall drops means my anti-infantry is through the roof and a big asset stays about 19" away from whatever's going for it. Plus it runs itself, which already helps since Kara's got no focus to buff her battlegroup at all. Free Refuge upkeep, 2 for Fire Group, 2 on Stormwall, then either keep 2 for boosted damage shots or put Deadeye on Gun Mages/Boomies.

>> No.20089340

>>20089204
Take Gravus, trust me.

Kreoss2 loves him some exemplars and his feat is balls awesome.

Severus has a 16" control area, and his feat fucks casters. Pluse he has Defenders ward, eye of menoth, immolation (and can cast it 4 times, or boost hit and boost damage twice) and ashes to ashes which fucks high Def models in the fucking ass (just run your own model up, and shoot it in the back. Ive had a whole unit of Kayazy assassins blown up this way in one turn :( )

>> No.20089394

>>20089204
You could run this

System: Warmachine
Faction: epic Kreoss - Crusaders of Sul
Casters: 1/1
Points: 34/35
Tiers: 4
Grand Exemplar Kreoss (*6pts)
* Fire of Salvation (9pts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer (2pts)
Knights Exemplar (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Knights Exemplar (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Knights Exemplar (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Exemplar Errant Seneschal (0pts)
High Exemplar Gravus (5pts)
Vassal Mechanik (1pts)

>> No.20089395

>>20089340
Alright, thanks. I think I'll go with eKreoss, what's the standard points limit nowadays, 35 or 50?

>> No.20089403

>>20089395
Either/Or actually. Its good to have lists for both levels.

>> No.20089405

>>20089394
Looks neato, what do the tier bonuses give?

>> No.20089429

>>20089340

Gravus is stupid w/ Kreoss2, especially in the tier.

In fact, you should probably play Kreoss2's tier list. At 35, it's balls to the walls ridiculous, and at 50 it's almost unstoppable. Everything is immune to just about every effect in the game except for Blind, Self-Sac on Errants stops Berserk/Tartar/soul culling/corpse collection, and your army of weapon masters auto-hits twice on feat turn. Sacrosanct + Inviolable Resolve are amazing, and Castigate nullifies Cryx shticks.

Top 5 tiers in the game next to Shae/Morty/Abby

>> No.20089487

>>20089405

>> No.20089553

>>20087404
Alrighty cool, I played cryx back in MK1 so I might go with Calaban but the other dude sounds interesting as well.

my next question is a simple one, what beasts work well with the gator men, I know the bull snapper and wrestler but can they work with thinks like the swamp squid?

and finally does anyone have a link to the minions book ? I can't seem to find it in my normal haunts.

>> No.20089602

apparently all the Forces of Warmachine: Menoth on rs are dead from MU, anyone have an upload they can contribute?

>> No.20089666

>>20089340
Seconding this. pSeverius fucks high-DEF infantry in the ass harder than an ICBM with a dildo warhead. Nothing is more hysterical than running your Crusader up in the midst of a Winter Guard Infantry Deathstar, hitting the Crusader with Ashes to Ashes, and having it bounce off and hit six WGI and killing every single one of them. If you get pSevy, make sure to get his character warjack, Blessing of Vengeance, as the +2 to damage rolls is fucking golden.

>> No.20089683

I've never played warmachine, is there anyone who would be kind enough to run me through some games on vassal?

>> No.20089767

>>20089602
https://crypto.cat/?c=menitedatastore

come say hi

>> No.20089843

>>20089553
You've got Wrastlers for general beatstick duty. They're pretty decent at it. Nothing too special, but not shit either. Their animus can be pretty useful as well, since it allows gator tossing shenanigans.

Ironback Spitters offer some ranged support, which can help you do stuff like clearing charge lanes for your other forces, which should be mostly melee. It can, of course, also try to pick out support pieces.

Swamp Horrors are your third heavy type. Haven't played against them, but they seem pretty decent. His animus gives Reach, which might help in extending threat ranges on models like Wrastlers or even your caster.

For lights, the Bull Snapper is a very cheap source of Spiny Growth, which is an amazing animus, especially for an already resilient faction like gators. Don't expect them to survive decent hits, and keep in mind Wrong Eye can also run one for even more ARM buffs.

The Boneswarm is a pretty basic melee fighter which wants to kill a couple of models to buff itself. Only seen them with Maelok, which makes sense with him buffing undead. Their animus (Swarm) can help in keeping the Swarm or your lock safe from both ranged and melee.

As was said before, Gatormen Posse are your best unit. Ridiculously tough (especially with Maelok) and quite effective against living models. They're also flexible, as they can give themselves Pathfinder, rerolls to hit living models or +1 DEF and Terror.

There's also some excellent stuff for the flanks. The Totem Hunter is pretty nasty and Croak Hunters and Bog Trogs can be very disruptive as well.

Still, your main problem is gonna be cracking armour. But that's something you'll have to deal with, just like Retribution players will have to deal with a lack of Stealth countermeasures.

>> No.20090289

>>20089394
Drop the mechanic, take an exemplar senechal for free, and pay 2 points for the errent senechal, and you're at 35.
Why you arent using the free senechal for an exemplar one is beyond fathoming...

>> No.20092896

>>20084881
As much as I would love to indulge your JRPG fap fic, I'm actually looking to put together something of substance.

check out these sample character creations: http://privateerpress.com/files/PrivateerPressIKFMFRGCR_2_0.pdf

Trying to locate the .pdf on spy rings

>> No.20093431

How is this list. its 25 points.

pButcher
-Juggernaught
-Destroyer
5 MoW Shocktroopers
3 MoW Bombardiers

>> No.20093565

>>20093431
its based off the 2 player battlebox. the savings from buying that thing are too good to pass up

>> No.20093771

Anyone else notice that Vlad3's tier list at level 4 runs something like:

Vladimir Tzepesci, Great Prince of Umbrey (*5pts)
* Spriggan (9pts)
* Spriggan (9pts)
* Drago (7pts)
Iron Fang Uhlans (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Iron Fang Uhlans (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Kovnik Markov (4pts)
Man-o-war Drakhun (without dismount) (4pts)

>> No.20093791

>>20093771
>Vlad3
When did they put in a third tier of casters?

>> No.20093861

>>20093431
anyone?

>> No.20093883

>>20093791

June/July with Colossals. Third Tier is:

Kreoss3
>mounted
Gaspy3
>with attachment
Vlad3
>mounted
Nemo3
>with attachment.

Other casters that book were:

Vyros2
>mounted
Ossrum
>dwarf

>> No.20093892

>>20093791
colossals book
>>20093431
Looks good. My friend runs something similar. At 35 pts its close to the same list but with behemoth and some man hunters

>> No.20093898

>>20093861

He can do fine with Kayazy or Winterguard as well due to Ironflesh.

>> No.20093932

>>20093431
could anyone give me advice on how to play the Butcher

>> No.20094039

>>20093932
1) Apply iron flesh to winterguard deathstar
2) Apply axe to face

>> No.20094298

>>20093431
I've also been thinking of another list. 25 points. Butchers tier 2.

pButcher
-Juggernaught
-Kodiak
-War Dog
5 MoW Shocktroopers
3 Mow Bombardiers

or alternatively

pButcher
-Kodiak
-Kodiak
-War Dog
5 Mow Shocktroopers
3 MoW Demo Corps

what do you think?

>> No.20095653

So, /tg/, rulings thread for a semi-new player

Just got done playing a match against a friend, eKreoss vs eStryker, managed to pull off an assassination after he wiped out all my units in a turn besides my Revenger and Choir

Anyway.

He brought Ol' Roudy (or whatever stryker's character jack is) Which can Counter Charge.

We just agreed to run it our way, but how does Counter Charge ACTUALLY work for future uses?

Does it trigger at the end of movement, or at the end of activation? Does it interrupt the target model's activation? Does Ol Roudy get to attack with this charge, or do you just apply the boost to his first attack next turn?

Also, mfw he mows down a full unit of Exemplar Bastions in ONE TURN

>> No.20095733

>>20095653
Lets say we have a Crusader and Ol' Rowdy.

Crusader moves and ends it's movement within 6" and LOS of Rowdy. Immediately after the movement, but before the Crusader takes it's action, Rowdy gets to charge the Crusader, make a single charge attack (regular hitting rules, boosted damage roll), then you continue with the Crusader's activation.

>> No.20095780

>>20095653
Counter charge is the moment something ends its -movement- within his LoS and in that 6" CC bubble around him. If you start there and sac movement, no movement was had so no countercharge. If he is already in melee with something (so, say, before anything else you run one guy to engage him prior to moving your next shit in to attack anything near, even if its just a lowly pikeman) he cannot countercharge.

Because it triggers at the end of your movement, so before your combat action (in most cases, unless you bushwack or something of the like, or middle of activation moves like sidestep or warpath), it will go before you make your attacks.

The charge is a normal charge, so any charge bonuses apply as long as he moved his 3" to count as an actual charge. So his damage roll is boosted so long as he moved at least 3".

>> No.20095792

>>20095733
Awesome, we did it 90% right.

>> No.20095891

>>20090289
I dont play menoth? get fucked.

>> No.20096009

...why is Kreoss the ONLY Exemplar without weapon master?

>> No.20096014

>>20095653
The first thing you should learn and make your mantra is "The rules do exactly what they say they do." Period. That's it.

Now, Lets look at the counter charge ability on Ol'Rowdy.

An activation has 2 parts: Movement then Action. (keep in mind it has to advance, if you push the model forward to get more movement out of it [using another jack] that doesn't count as advance.)

When it charges, it follows all rules for charges.

How is this confusing? How did you guys play it?

>> No.20096026

>>20096009
because that would be broken as all fuck with focus.

>> No.20096487

>>20096026
>what is the Butcher

>> No.20096564

>>20096026
Isn't Weapon Master basically just "Plus 1 to 6 Pow" or is there some kind of bonus related to doubles on Pow rolls?

Most models with Weapon Master tend to have P+S 3 less than models that fulfill similar roles in other armies.

>> No.20096657

>>20096487

Butcher isn't really comparable.

>> No.20097402

>>20089843

In my experience the frogs aren't really worth their points, nor is the swamp horror. The frogs lack the mat/rat/range to be a realistic threat to combat based solos and they aren't resilient enough to be a serious threat to small units of infantry. They can dash up to warbeasts for some nice damage, but it's only meaningful when they're taken in blocks of 3 and that gets pricey.

The issue with the swamp horror is that it brings little to the gatormen as a faction. It has numerous low strength attacks and reach, so does the gatormen posse (and everything else). It takes less damage from shooting, two of our three warlocks negate shooting and the third has no use for the squid at all. It gives reach to a faction that has precisely one model in it's range (the wrastler) that actually benefits from an 8 point investments 2 point animus that gives reach, and if you're doing that just get a second wrastler and have them throw eachother. It's statline is also truly awful for an 8 point heavy warbeast with less resiliency than some light warbeasts.

Most everything else available to the faction is pretty great.

>> No.20097478

Brace for stupidity.

Justify your choice of taking pure anti-infantry infantry units. ex:Assault Kommandos.
I've been trying and trying to figure this out, and I just don't see why you would take a unit that can only be effective against itself.

>> No.20097724

>>20096657
>because that would be broken as all fuck with focus
>with focus
>Butcher has focus

>> No.20098138

>>20097478
>Assault Kommandos
1. Immune to both Corrosion and Fire
2. Ignore gas effects
3. Ignore cloud effects for LOS or resolving attacjs
4. Assault and Battery = ranged attack before movement of charge
5. Shield Wall = Arm 18
6. 3" AoE gas effect that causes -2 to Def and Attack Rolls for living models

Decent tarpit with some ability to kill infantry.

>Assault Kommando Flamethrower Weapon Attachment
1. Cont: Fire Spray for anti-stealth
2. Explodes in a 5" AoE of Cont: Fire when killed.

So now we're tossing around an effect that can rape shield guard units, stealth, and severely damage multi-wound units with the added bonus of exploding if killed in said nasty effect without risking damaging your own units. They are also in a faction with:

1. Easy access to Iron Flesh which largely helps their low Def.
2. Easy access to a large number of Def debuffs which mitigates a large deal of any issues due to Mat or Rat.
3. Easy access to Hand of Fate/Fortune/Signs and Portents which once again helps mitigate issues with accuracy.
4. Easy access to movement increases/pathfinder. So a fairly mobile tarpit.
5. Access to a Stealth buff making them even more resilient.

So they are a decent tarpit alternative to Man-o-War Shocktroopers or Iron Fang Pikeman, providing some anti-stealth and ignoring effects that otherwise can deal a blow to your survivability. They boast a decent speed with access to movement buffs, allowing them to wall off where you need them too. They ignore a few effects which may be used to prevent them from returning fire. And with all the access to def debuffs or augmenting their accuracy via spells like Fortune, they should be capable of dealing damage if required. With both Iron Flesh and Occultation within the faction, it is possible to lower and almost eliminate ranged potshots that reduce their effictiveness.

>> No.20098187

>>20097402

are you playing scenarios?

you'll realize why bog trogs are so stupidly effective when you start playing scenarios, which force you over to a table side most of the time. ambush is one of the best abilities in the game. powerful charge on that same unit w/ a carnivore caster that also has parasite makes them incredibly dangerous to any non-cryx caster that needs to devote themselves to scenario to win.

also, maelock kind of needs the horror, it makes his malediction game make sense.

>> No.20098437

>>20097478
>Mage Hunter Strike Force

Because I need a way to make a path for my two Sphinxes and Garryth.

>> No.20099518

>>20097478
what do you classify as pure anti infantry units?

as a Cygnar player the premiere anti infantry unit is the ATGM+UA and they serve multiple functions anti stealth (an infantry ability) picking off solos and objective and charge lane shananagins

stormguard: an infantry screen (that is expensive and fragile without support, but that is a problem with cygnar not their role) that can obliterate light infantry with electro leaps and have cma to put some damage to heavies

trenchmandos: a range stealth unit which is annoying enough for the enemy and with anatomical precision they can put the hurt on infantry relying on high arm, and with the WA they for a cheap source of spray attacks in cygnar. They drive a bug up Ret players asses which is hilarious due to their usage of MHSF

trencher chain gun crew: besides the fact that no one uses them, they play a denial game primarily run them up dig in and covering fire objectives or charge lanes, and you can punish infantry that run around the template with a strafe the following turn (to be honest this is not a very attractive option since if they want to meta against you their army should be pretty resistant to pow 10s)

Rangers: they function as a self sufficient range buff that can take pop shots and can be a pain to clear out for enemies with out aoes

>> No.20099648

>>20097478

I like taking units of Cleansers and Deliverers; the Deliverers AOE has ridiculous threat range and is good at popping support solos and infantry, and the Cleansers combined AOE cloud is helpful for blocking LOS and can put a fairly big hurt on even heavy targets, given that a standard 6 man unit is going to be throwing a POW18 AOE 4 CRA.

Me, I like taking pFeora and throwing the cleanser AOE into her back whilst playing her fairly forward against high infantry armies, just for shits and giggles. She's immune to the fire damage, and anything entering that cloud takes an automatic PoW 12, which kills infantry dead. Throw flame wall on for extra fun, just because.

>> No.20100467

So what does Gaspy3 typically run?

>> No.20100495

Bump to bring back from the grave.

Also because fuck yeah triple Nemooooooo

>> No.20100530

>>20100495
Speaking of bringing back from the grave, Nemo should become an Iron Lich after he dies.

>> No.20101814

Bringin' it back again.

Menoth related-
I've read a few things about people running Vindy, Forgeguard, and attendant priest. Has anyone had any experience using/against this? I can definatly see it working on paper, and it also give us some small-based reach/wm infantry.
My main question is, is it really worth the 7/10 points for the combo, or am I better off just taking more exemplars/tfg?

>> No.20102198

So...anyone got the spoiled eeCasters from Colossals? Looking for eeKreoss's stats...Always wanted to run a Vanquisher heavy list, and now he's on a horse...I don't care if it'd be bad, it's god damned cavalry.

>> No.20102231

>>20096564
But the potential to boost the weaponmaster attack...that's 4 dice on damage. I can see how that'd be broken, but at the same time, it's not as broken as a lot of what's out there in this game.

>> No.20102347

>>20100467
40 Mechanithralls.

He's is made for InfantryMachine.

>> No.20102696

bump for eeKreoss

>> No.20102791

>>20102198

eeKreoss is fucking awesome. One of the better warcasters in Colossals in my opinion, and I'm tempted to pick him up. And by the way you can google most of the spoilers for the Colossals stuff but here are the full stats anyway:

Warjack points: 5
Focus 7
Damage 18

SPD 8
STR 6
MAT 8
RAT 4
DEF 14
ARM 17
CMD 10

Divine Inspiration- gains additonal die on melee attack and damage rolls, discards the lowest
Elite Cadre(Vengers)- they get Divine Inspiration
Imperishable Conviction - when a friendly faction model is destroyed in his control area Kreoss heals 1 damage point

Conviction: PS 14
-Magical Weapon
-Reach
-Blessed
-Brutal Charge (+2 charge attack damage)

Mount: POW 12

Feat: Enemy upkeep spells in his control area expire, and Kreoss can cast all of his upkeep spells once for free

Spells:
Crevasse
Death Sentence
Force Hammer
Holy Ward
Ignite
Warpath

>> No.20105634

>>20102347
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF so annoying.

>> No.20106174

I play Protectorate and currently have pKreoss, pSeverius, the Menoth half of the starter box, Gorman, a choir, and a Vassal. Where do I go from here? I'm thinking eFeora and Redeemer, but I know that the Redeemer's pretty bad with all of the other casters.

>> No.20106285

>>20106174
I'd recommend Knights Exemplar Errants.

>> No.20106302

>>20102347
>mfw timed turns

>> No.20106345

>>20102791
>dat spell list

Warpath is boss as fuck. Holy Ward is one of the best defensive upkeeps, and Ignite is pretty nice too.
And Death Sentence means Errants finally get a decent RAT boost!

Dervish+Ignite+Choir+Warpath, best 4pt infantry clearing :D

>> No.20106370

>>20106174
2nd Heavy Warjack, Vanquisher and Vassal is pretty nice.
That or Knights Exemplar or Exemplar Errants, they're both decent. The Covenant is pretty good too, especially with Errants.
Blocking all KD and Stationary stops a lot of assassination runs, and giving Errants Cont. Fire seriously boosts their damage output.

>> No.20107329

Is there a pdf for Colossals out? I'm asking for a... friend.

>> No.20107417

>>20107329
https://rapidshare.com/files/1354755436/Colossals.rar

>> No.20107431

>>20107417
Oh, not a pdf though; photos.

>> No.20107553

painting some everblight

>> No.20107562

>>20107553

>> No.20107712

>>20107562
aww you made a cryx player sad with that paint scheme

>> No.20107714

>>20098187

Maeloks malediction game already makes no sense. Run him up next to a warjack and just hit it with a wrastler, maelok is too vulnerable and weak to be a combat caster and his fury is much better spent on spamming spiny growth or keeping himself alive.

>> No.20107752

>>20107562
>>20107553
Thin your paints

>> No.20108074

>>20107712
MAY LORD TORUKS MINDSLAVES NEVER GET TO BONE A GIRL AGAIN! (no litteraly)

>> No.20108715

So, what does everyone think will happen to Mary Su- I mean, Victoria Haley?

>> No.20109135

>>20107714
>maelok is too vulnerable
What? No. You're fucking retarded. Maelok is one (easily in the top 10%) of the hardest Hordes casters in the game to kill. And with malediction hedging odds a little bit better in your favor you can net extra souls that will later turn into more spinys, possibly an extra revive, and usually one more transfer to vastly increase his durability.
Also, while effective mat8 pow14 with THREE initials might not SOUND like a lot to you, it is in fact enough to deal finishing blows to beasts and steal all their fury which turns into, oh what a surprise, even more gatormen.

Vulnerability wise, yes, he is only as bulky as every other bulky type caster. On his feat turn, he is comparable in resilience to the likes of Xerxis on feat turn, pThagrosh and Barnabas. However, because of the way his feat turn SHOULD work out (if you have half a brain) Posse should be crammed so far down your opponent's throat that it will be by no means an easy task.

If you think Maelok is a "Vulnerable" caster, please explain to me how Xerxis is a vulnerable caster, because the both of them are basically as hard to kill as the other. (And yes, he actually CAN defend himself. While he doesn't have quite the punch of xerxis, mat8 3xpow14s is still enough to kill most non camping casters non-venetrax casters. Plus, any of his anythings can come in to try and save his ass. But that isn't a maelok issue, that's a gators in general issue. None of them can handle casters super soloing and camping armor.)

>> No.20110581

>>20107417
I'm sure my friend will appreciate it.

>> No.20110700

>>20102347

I'd say he's one of the 'casters that does best with a decent balance of infantry and helljacks. Of course everyone in Cryx is too busy being obsessed with Bane Thralls so it's not like anyone cares about that.

>> No.20110852

>>20109135

Any caster can kill any other caster that isn't camping you idiot. Maelok has 3 power 12s turned into effective 14s by casting or upkeeping malediction. If you've somehow shuttled him into another caster then of course you'll win. Fucking doomshaper can do the same thing, that doesn't make him a combat caster. Maelok isn't based on self buffing and he's usually fairly fury thin since it costs a lot to maintain gator bricks. If your game plan is based around trying to shuttle him around to down casters or jacks then you're going to lose hard. You probably do. There's no reason to try and assassinate with a warlock that lacks speed, hitting power, reach, or a decent threat range. Maelok is specifically designed to sit back and let the army do it's work. That swamp horror could have just been another gatorman brick or a wrastler, both of which have vastly better odds of pulling off a successful assassination on feat turn.

As for the xerxis comparison, if he's upkeeping defenders ward on himself he has 15 defense and 20 armor while not needing to spell spam to maintain an army like maelok needs to. That leaves him 4 fury for camping or casting inhospitable ground. If your goal was actual protection you could just give him tiberion or a cyclops brute for shielding and protective animi. Maelok doesn't belong anywhere near the front lines, he has just enough defense and armor to avoid getting downed at rang by a stray defender shot.

>> No.20111385

>>20110852
On average, on his feat turn with token spiny, eHaley's bonded stormclad fully loaded on 4 with temp acceleration won't kill Maelok camping 1fury

>> No.20111599

>>20110852
>Uses Maeloks feat with the primary intent of pulling off an assassination that typically requires far too unreasonable amount of luck against any savvy opponents when Barny can just do the same thing plain better 95% of the time
You DO understand that when you revive a model, its base, threat range and all that stuff comes back, right? Because I'm getting the feeling you don't or magically believe every army in the game is chock full of parry.
You're not paying for revive to make more attacks on the opposing caster. You're getting back a durable piece that requires at least a boosted damage roll to take back off the field, and is still a medium base with reach just hanging out threatening a bunch of enemy models.

>> No.20113207

>>20101814

Honestly Vindictus kinda likes lists like:

>@35
Vice Scrutator Vindictus (*6pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer (2pts)
Holy Zealots (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer (2pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord/Covenant of Menoth (2pts)
The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

He's also decent with Knights Exemplar, Daughters of the Flame, Allegiant Order of the Fist. Basically everything is decent with Vindictus. Hence he is awesome. Just rather unplayed. If you are to use the Forgeguard, I'd just replace the Errants and UA and use something similar to the above. He'll get decent use out of them.

>> No.20113671

Has there been anything on eVyros' model? I wanna see it so bad.

>> No.20114186

>>20113671
me too, there was some word about there being a preview art piece in some Privateer press magazine or something, I want to see it.

>> No.20116851

>>20113671
It's a Ret cav.

wait forever for it

>> No.20117351

>>20113207
>Trying to get ahold of wracks in the UK without obscene waiting times

Seriously... No-where stocks them... ever... Wayland and Maelsteom justy return my cash whenever I tack them onto an order...

>> No.20117851

>>20111599

Two revived gators extends a posses threat range by as much as 9 inches and allows you to pick and choose charge lanes. On feat turn it's simplistically easy to revive gators, use cold blooded, and down almost any caster or warlock in the game. They have a 12 inch base threat range, dual pow 13's on a charge, and rerollable mat 7. Even if they fail that caster now has to somehow remove a gatorman brick while the rest of your army maneuvers around it. The entirety of Maeloks purpose on the field is attrition and caster assassination through Posse bricks. He does it exceptionally well and significantly better than barnabus who requires a good ranged game for a pop and drop.

>> No.20117977

>>20117351
Try to wait until Wracks show up on Maelstrom games if you still want to order from there.

If nothing else works, order from a store in another country and in bulk when you need to.

I managed my Menoth Wracks from Maelstrom and I managed 3 boxes of them.

>> No.20118096

Legion, anyone? I was putting an all-beast list together and thought I did a decent job. Our infantry are just so... mediocre, and our beasts are so very very nice.


Abyslonia, Terror of Everblight
Shredders, 6
Nephilim Bolt Thrower
Carnivean
Angelius
2 Forsaken
1 Shepherd

35 point list.

More beast-handlers? More Typhon?

>> No.20118110

>>20111385

On Maeloks feat turn he's incorporeal so... Yeah. He'll survive something that can't physically hurt him. Haley also has no damage buffs and you're stacking two armor buffs and camping fury.

>> No.20118145

>>20116851
>>20114186
>>20113671

Hopefully it'll be released with Hyperion.

>> No.20118228

>>20118110

maelock's feat lasts for a turn, not a round

he loses incorporeal as soon as his turn ends

>>20118096

is this tier? i'd say if you're gonna do beast-heavy abby @ 35 you'd probably want to go her tier route

multiple forsaken + discounted beasts + that movement is quite a scary proposition for anybody on the other side of the table

>> No.20118248

So, /tg/. Sam and the Devil Dogs; yay or nay?

I field them occasionally, honestly mostly because they're just dead cool. I'm considering grabbing a Buccaneer to run with them, because dat Pronto-plus-thrown-net synergy. I figure between that and the Nomad I already have, the Dogs should be able to wreak some proper havoc on a flank while my warcaster and his/her boys (I play Cygnar, just for reference) go in for the kill.

Think it's worth the money?

>> No.20118340

>>20118228

Full tier, yah. I already factored in the 1 point off heavies and such. I dunno if I need any more forsaken than this, at 35 points, but maybe I should drop a shredder or two. The gals make for hilarious fun against Terminus and other campy fellas.

>> No.20118389

>>20118340

I think 2 is good enough given what you're using here + the Shepherd

I'm assuming Angelius takes point w/ FE and Tenacity and Carnivean comes in for the counter-charge?

>> No.20118566

>>20118248

Well, first off:

ATGM + UA + Avenger?
ATGM + UA + Defender?

Both of those I would say have precedence over the Devil Dogs. Thor Steinhammer is also another option, being efficient with Gunners, Blasters, Basher, Rockram, and Avalancher.

Alternatively, if you want in-faction Drive: Pronto, you can also look at Swordknights + UA for a marshalled Ironclad, Hammersmith, or other Cygnar jack.

>> No.20118682

>>20118096
all beast, but you have a shepherd?
I would have tried to go with just forsaken, to keep with the theme of the list.
What do you mean I'm not allowed to have fun?

6 shredders Oo nice.
I actually like shredders, they are better when they rage than when they normal.

Why the bolt thrower though?

and i concur, our infantry is crap most of the time.
even the solos seem sub par.
i mean legionnaires? wtf, they have worse weapons than blade masters, and have to die to use their special powers. d'oh matt, what were you thinking??

>> No.20118686

>>20118389

Yeah, I'm hoping the Shredders will draw fire while I get Angelius into position for an assassination run. Even if I can't Reach over the enemy's front line, I could always have him annihilate a heavy that Abby just shut down with her AOE spell. Not much fear of retaliation with 17 DEF.

Also, being that I'm fairly new, gotta ask: Shredders can get trampled, right? So I shouldn't expect them to hold a line against something bigger?

>> No.20118717

>>20118566
Believe me, I'm not passing up the Gun Mage attachment. Already got one of those in my regular rotation (Though lack of funds has sadly deprived me of a Defender or Avenger, so I usually give him my old starter box Charger. Two Snipe or T-Bolt shots per turn can be surprisingly effective.) Also usually drop in a Journeyman with a Hunter, and then whatever caster and battlegroup I feel like. The Dogs are mostly to fill points in larger games, or for games against players with lots of light 'jacks/'beasts.

>> No.20118721

>>20118686
shredders are not even light warbeasts, they're lesser warbeasts :c
they be squishy.

>> No.20118725

>>20118248

yay.

>> No.20118789

is this thread dead yet?

I would like some advice.
I just seem to lose every game i play against a friend of mine.

the thing is, I don't usually lose, I am usually the one rolling over everyone else.

Anyway, we are playing the journeyman slow grow league, so thats battlegroups only, then we've moved up to 15pts.

i have menoth, and took the choir + hierophant to get up to 15pts
my mate took cryx + necrotech.

and every time we play he charges kreoss and kills him.
usually denny feats + charge, or slayer charges.

I want to get kreoss close so that lamentation works, but it just seems to get him killed.

honestly guise, wat do?

>> No.20118796

>>20118717

Have you considered Steinhammer (for Rhulic jacks) and/or Swordknights?

>> No.20118824

>>20118789

A Vassal of Menoth might have gone farther than the Hierophant.

Are you using your feat?

You'll have to remind me what is in the battlebox.

>> No.20118869

>>20118721

Dawww. Oh well.

>>20118682
Shredders are probly my favorite thing ever. I've killed Karchev with nothing but primal Lylith and three shredders.

As for the Bolt and the Shepherd, they go together well. Boosted acc and damage + charge denial is good versus annoying solos or heavies. The shepherd wipes his focus after, or maybe heals shredders that survived the first couple turns.

In any case, I'm off to work, and then to play another game against my bro and his Khador army. Might report back if the thread's still alive.

>> No.20118900

>>20118796
Honestly, not really. Rhulic stuff was always a little slow for my tastes.

And sword knights...eh. Don't get me wrong, I can see their uses. The "melee snipers" angle is pretty cool, and with a good 'jack by their side I can see them rolling some serious face if they manage to close with the enemy. They just seem a little lacking in versatility. Whereas a unit of Stormblades can fill just about any role, given the right buff, and their UA gives them some serious hurt potential with the Assault order. Plus you can marshal a Stormclad with them for what amounts to a steady two focus per turn without tying up the warcaster (add Arlan for additional lulz).

>> No.20118920

>>20118824
a vassal could have been better indeed, but that's a minor problem.

Last game, I moved kreoss up, feated, slammed a bonechicken out of the way, zapped the slayer with magic, all with lamentation active.

next turn, denny forfeits move (like she gives a fuck) and feats, no spells, 3 focus onto slayer.
slayer pays 1focus to get up as if no problem.
moves into range
whups kreoss.

T_T

previous game (BG only) Kreoss feats, slayer down, charge it with crusader and revenger at the same time, destroy 0 systems.

next turn denny feats, slayer gets up, destroys my crusader.
denny charges kreoss,
kreoss dies.

T_T

ah yes menoth BG:
kreoss
crusader
revenger
repenter

Cryx BG
denny
slayer
2 deathrippers
1 defiler

We have another friend who plays cygnar, what's amusing is that i whup his hiney every time, but he whups cryx every time.
The cygnar charger is SOOOOOO powerful, it is no way worth only 4pts.
Bonejacks never make it across the table, in fact in the last game the slayer was destroyed in 2 turns by the charger.

>> No.20118977

>>20118920
The charger's okay, but it's kind of a Focus-sink. It needs 3 per turn to operate at peak capacity, down to a minimum of one to really do anything at all.

Thank god they gave it Powerful Shot in MkII. I remember when the only way to get a fully-boosted double shot out of a charger was to field pNemo and hope to god you didn't need to cast spells that turn.

>> No.20119072

>>20118977
in our 15pt games our cygnar player takes a journeyman & reinholdt to get up to 15pts.
the journeyman's battlegroup is the charger.
There's 3 focus per turn.

>> No.20119148

>>20118920
I don't think you can slam knocked down models, so how you slammed something out of the way on kreoss feat turn is beyond me. If you really want an easy ride with Pkreoss, just get some ranged units. Deliverers, zealots, vanquisher, reckoner, and redeemer all work well.

Run him forward, pop feat, fire loads of shit at the enemy caster/lock. Admittedly, camping 'locks are harder, but unless denny is full camping, massively accurate (due to knockdown) pow12+ attacks will cream her.
You could already be doing this with the repenter, to be honest. Keep it's flamethrower intact, surge forwards, feat, then hit her with a boosted shot from it. That boosted pow12 should knock her down to around half, with rolls the better side of average.

Redeemers are just dreamy on assassinations like this. With a vassal, chior, and kreoss commiting focus to the kill, you're looking at 3 fully boosted pow14 hits (With the aiming bonus, and choir, assuming the KD caster isn't obscured at all, you're hitting on anything but a triple 1), and one unboosted.
If the caster has groundwork, fuck it. Just run the redeemer forwards, and use those boostable pow7 blasts to make some hurt.

alternatively, look into daughters of the flame, as a unit. With AP, acro, CMA, speed7, and autohitting against knocked down targets, they cause mayhem on kreoss feat turn, and arent too costly, at 6 for 5.

Of course, none of this applies to caster who are knockdown immune. For those, just wreak havoc on the feat turn, and start camping focus on kreoss, in case they try to assassinate you. that 14/15 defensive split he has baseline is just aids.

>> No.20119178

>>20119072
Oh, I do the same thing sometimes. Though lately I've been favoring a Hunter with my Journeyman. Hunters need a max of two focus each turn to roll right over people, which leaves the Journeyman's third focus free to upkeep Arcane Shield on something. It's particularly great with Stormnouns or Sword Knights, although nothing says loving like an armor 21 Ironclad careening down the field.

Also, is he using a Journeyman as his primary 'caster? And attaching Reinholdt to him? Cuz both of those things are crazy against the rules. Ruleswise, a JW is a solo, not a Warcaster, so it can neither lead a force nor have Attached models.

>> No.20119221

>>20118900

sword knights are there for flank and precision strike, not for 1-point damage most of the time

they're the reason cygnar doesn't get lightning tendrils or else they would make the rest of our infantry obsolete. but i really kind of want lightning tendrils. mhm @ beat back hammersmiths with electro leap.

>>20118977
I find you can run a Charger comfortably with one. You don't need two shots every turn, only when it's necessary to really put something under. Wish Guided Fire triggered Powerful Attack, but alas, no broken bone thrown to Kraye.

>>20118920
You should probably try to get Deneghra just within your control range. She has a charge range of 11", so if you can get the jump on the Slayer and keep Kreoss sufficiently far away from her you should be good.

Cryx battle box is the best out of all the battle boxes though, a Stealth caster and a debuff feat plus your heavy has a better charge range than any of the other ones and you can hold a node in reserve in case that fails for the assassination run

>> No.20119300

>>20119148
Sorry you are correct, not slam, just charged.
I was going to slam, but we read the rules: you can't slam something that's knocked down.

I can't change my army.
I have to use battlegroup, but i can add 4pts to go up to 15pts now.
Menoth BG doesn't have much ranged stuff indeed.

What do you mean by camped?
like sitting at the back not doing anything?

I think I should start camping kreoss...
After all with the choir and hierophant Kreoss can pretty much sit at the back and wait unharmed.
Spells cant' hit our jacks, kreoss can remove upkeeps at will, one spell per turn costs one focus less (which means it gets boosted instead)
But I still need denny in my feat range, and kreoss and/or the jacks within charge range to get the little bitch.

I'll have to try this next time.
Oh Maybe I didnt mention that this pal of mine is a lucky little faggot. It doesn't help.

>> No.20119302

>>20119221
One shot can be useful. It's usually enough to put an annoying solo under, though when it doesn't fly it's dead embarassing.

I do love the double shot, though. Nothing says, "Fuck your warcaster," quite like a fully-loaded Charger. Unless they're big-based and my Hunter has a shot, of course.

>> No.20119326

>>20119148

pDenny has stealth dude. And the guys real problem is that he's not screening Kreoss properly, there shouldn't be anything that can get to him, especially under Denny's feat. Although this is probably the first thing newbies have to learn the hard way.

>> No.20119370

>>20119178
the rules say the journeyman has "battlegroup commander" so he can has a battlegroup.
He isn't the force commander, he just gets to control warjacks.
Reinholdt isn't attached to him though, the gobber goes with stryker (he doesn't seem all that useful though, just slightly useful, then again he's only 1pt)

>> No.20119426

>>20119326
You're totally right, brother. I was thinking that was skarre, for some reason.
>>20119300
Camping, means keeping focus/fury, rather than burning it all up on spells/jacks, so you can overboost/transfer.
It's something that I personally overlooked when I first started, but once I picked up menoth, and began playing Kreoss, I realised that he's so paper-thin, it was the way to go if there were any real threats.

As for the stealth on Denny, as another anon suggested, keep her at arms length, and use your feat turn to ruin everything else, if you can't ruin her. Alone, she isn't such a huge threat. Also, if you can, use the repenter to set her on fire, if you get the chance. Her low armour means average rolls for fire damage will cause some hurt.

But yeah, Pdenny is fierce, I won't deny that. She doesn't just get a lot of board time for being in the battlegroup box.

>> No.20119436

>>20119302
word.
double powerful shot seems so good at BG level.
My menoth only manage because I jump on that charger as fast as possible !!
Last time using +2def/+2arm spell on the revenger, run, and zap the charger with spells.
If you shootan' me, ahm shootan u back.

>> No.20119445

>>20119426
yeah, I'm learning the hard way.

>> No.20119453

So, I magnetised a pair of heavies today. Amidoinitrite?

Also, no castigator parts, because they're poop teir...

>> No.20119532

>>20119426
Yes, I concur, again.
His def/arm is indeed aids, he's not too hard to hit, and not too hard to damage which is the worst kind of stats.

I thought that pdenny was one of the most powerful casters out there? mostly because of DAT FEAT + stealth + more debuffs than you can shake sliver at, oh waith sliver is even more debuffs.

Anyway, thanks guise, you've been good help.
I'll start by keeping kreoss covered, because even if he slams my jack into kreoss with his slayer, the slayer should survive the following turn.
i hope !!

>> No.20119555

>>20119453
I has a metal castigatorand I can't wait to run a feora list with it.

>> No.20120251

does anybody have a Legion rulebook PDF they'd be willing to upload? Most of the old links shriveled up and they're the one faction I can't currently run on Vassal b/c I don't have the rules for them.

>> No.20120444

>>20119300

Get a second Repenter; it's got a good ranged bite and that flame thrower ignores Denny's stealth. Knocked down models don't block line of sight and don't have threat ranges; they cannot hit you with free strikes if you disengage from them while knocked down. Two boosted repenter shots into Deny on your feat turn will kill her dead.

>> No.20121304

>>20118900
>Rhulic stuff was always a little slow for my tastes.

Gunner is spd 5
Blaster is spd 5
Avalancher is spd 4
Basher is spd 5
Driller is spd 4
Rockram is spd 4

So only a few are really that slow. Most of them are about equal with Cygnar jacks.

Thor Steinhammer has Drive: Pronto. Any speed issue is largely ignored due to that. Assuming you want to aim, you can. If you do't want to aim, you can maximise the range. He can also Tune Up as well.

>> No.20122202

>>20119300

Plan for her feat turn. Your shit will get wrecked during it no matter what, so try to minimize the damage however you can.

>> No.20123889

>>20117851
If you seriously believe two revived gatorman can kill casters reliably (i.e. not rolling out your ass) you're playing against shitty opponents that don't see it coming.

The engagement and attrition aspect is far more valuable than the offense aspect.

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