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[ERROR] No.19857177 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Which is your favorite Traitor Legion and why, /tg/?

For me, it mostly depends on what hour of the day it is. My favorites, though, are the Emperor's Children and the Iron Warriors.

The Emperor's Children, mostly because of the noise marines, which are goddamn awesome. I also like their attitude of coolly, casually mocking the Imperium, rather than being rage-a-holics who can't stop screaming "DEATHTOTHEFALSEEMPERORDEATHTOTHEFALSEEMPERORDEATHTOTHEFALSEEMPERORDEATHTOTHEFALSEEMPERORDEATHT
OTHEFALSEEMPERORDEATHTOTHEFALSEEMPERORDEATHTOTHEFALSEEMPEROR"

The Iron Warriors, because of my love of shooty armies, and their legion's attitude. Once again, they aren't a balls out rage-a-holic legion. They're more like that guy who has a terrible, soul-crushing cubicle job with shitty pay, shitty hours, irritating co-workers and asshole bosses. And then, one day, he snaps and goes on a rampage. It's a cold, focused hatred, not an explosive rage.

The Night Lords and World Eaters are okay too, but I wouldn't call them favorites.

And no, I haven't read any of the novels on them. I don't even know if they're any good.

>> No.19857227

Thousand Sons because fuck reality.
Also, they sometimes get shit done despite being the least numerous of the legions

>> No.19857341

Iron Warriors because I jerk it to siege tactics, and an evil machine is pretty BA.
...but also Thousand Sons because I love their look, theme, and (to some extent) story.
But for shits and giggles, everything that has to do with Khorne, because rage-fucking planets in the name of violence makes me happy.

>> No.19857790

Night Lords because of the "Throne of Lies" audiobook. Also 'cause they're the goddamned Bat-marines who wasted a claw to get a whole bunch of Salamanders Tactical Dreadnought armor.

And OP's opinion of the Iron Warriors reminds me of "Falling Down" a little. They're a little more everyman than the Smurfs in that they're stuck in a job they hate.

>> No.19857843

I like the Thousand Sons the most. They were the first box of Warhammer I ever got, and they have an interesting, and perhaps sad history.

>> No.19858143

1k Sons, Iron Warriors and...that's it. World Bearers if I'm playing Black Crusade.

Alpha legion is still ok but I still don't know why /tg/ says they work for the Empire. I have never, ever, read anything where it says they are secretly working for the emprah.

>> No.19858297

what no love for the alpha legion?

The fact that they could still be loyal, the duplicity and cunning.

>> No.19858407

Black Legion, mongrel princes of traitors, most liberal use of Chaos and most powerful Chaotic force in the Long War.

>> No.19858429

>>19858297
>The fact that they could still be loyal

No. You cannot have Daemon Princes and Chaos Champions and attack the Imperium whenever and still be loyal.

>> No.19858433

Thousand Sons and Emperors Children, maybe the Iron Warriors if I wasn't feeling particularly aligned that day. Thousand Sons are my favourite though because I have a pink horror for magic/sorcerers and they have a, as this guy said >>19857843, a sad back story. You have to wonder where they'd be if Magnus didn't have the warp vision or if Horus didn't tell Russ to destroy them. I'm guessing similar to the Blood Ravens but without the stealing.

>> No.19858435

World Eaters. Simplicity.

second place goes to the Word Bearers (iconic "evil" marines) and the Iron Warriors (big guns never tire)

>> No.19858449

>>19858435
though I think it's worth mentioning that Ahriman is my favourite Chaos "character"

Dude's interesting as fuck. Has a cool model, too

>> No.19858469

>>19858449
holy balls, source. Is that Ahriman concept art or something.

>> No.19858480

>>19858429

[citation needed]

>> No.19858494

>>19858469
yes, yes it is.

It's from the Jes Goodwin artbook that came out a while ago... I don't think it's in production anymore?

>> No.19858504

>>19858480
Voldorius is/was an Alpha Legion deamon prince.

>> No.19858537

>>19858504

When Raven Guard Commander Branne arrived at Istvaan V to retrieve several of what remained of the Loyalist forces including his Primarch - Corax - the Alpha Legion played a pivotal part in letting Corax escape, going as far as killing the commander of a World Eaters battle barge to prevent it from destroying Branne's vessel.[11]

why would they do that anon? why?

>> No.19858544

Word Bearers, especially when their faith is focused on in a story.

And, because Lorgar is the coolest looking daemon primarch.

>> No.19858562

>>19858480
Voldorius and maybe Sindri for AL Daemon Princes.
Arkos, Bale and Carron for Chaos Champions.

>> No.19858588

>>19858537
If you're going to copy and paste from Lexicanum make sure you post everything, not just the bit that supports your argument.

After the virus-bombing of Isstvan III, the presumed loyal Alpha Legion was one of the legions sent by the Emperor to destroy Horus at his base on Isstvan V. Assigned to the second wave, the Legion instead turned on the loyalist first wave. It is thought by many that much of the traitors' Isstvan V strategy was planned by Alpharius and the Alpha Legion.

During the Heresy, the Alpha Legion split off from the main body of Horus's forces early and did not attack Terra, instead embarking upon a series of delaying actions in an attempt to hold Imperial reinforcements in place. They also engaged in smaller actions, defeating a White Scars force on Tallarn and a Space Wolves unit at Yarant. Despite their contributions, however, Horus was defeated.[1]

They further spread and coordinate Chaos Cults throughout the galaxy in order to instigate massive revolts against imperial rule. These insurrections are often used to lure imperial forces away from worlds they want to attack, paving the way for large scale assault from the Eye of Terror.[10]

These cults go to considerable effort to spread propaganda, perform sabotage, and carry out acts of unrest and rebellion, providing a distraction and weakening the enemy before the Alpha Legion strikes.[1][9] Furthermore, the Legion has been known to ally themselves with anti-imperial forces including other Traitor Legions and xenos.[1]

>> No.19858592

>>19858537
To let Corax escape so that he could get to Terra and the Emperor would give him primarch genetic Material that could be used to speed grow Marines. The sabotaged the program and took the Material and research for themselves.

>> No.19858647

Word Bearers, I love the 'Dark Imperium' kind of look, that and them being OGs of Heretics.

>> No.19858657

Iron Within, Iron Without.

>> No.19858701

>>19858588
So the Alpha Legion is heretic as fuck and the secretly loyal stuff is fancanon?

>> No.19858716

The Black Legion. Because Horus told them to let the galaxy burn, and by Chaos they're going to do it no matter how many tries it takes.

>> No.19858720

>>19858701
pretty much

/tg/ fans don't have an accurate depiction of the setting, usually. They base their opinions on "stuff I heard from /tg/" rather than "stuff I've read from GW"

and if anyone mentions it they're quick to spout "Everything is canon! You just hate fun!"

>> No.19858726

>>19858701
Yes.

>> No.19858758

>>19858701
yeah, I think the rumour started on /tg/ or one of the popular 40k forums. Basically, the Alpha Legion are chaos and heretic, they are just secretive, but not "we're actually loyalists, we're just trolling everyone, SHHHHHH!" kind of secretive.

>> No.19858764

Iron warriors for the exact same reason OP stated.

>> No.19858823

>>19858758
>>19858720
Read the horus heresy book Legion. It's all about the Alpha Legion and the end explains exactly what's going on in canon. I'm not posting it up as it was one of the few fluff twists I've enjoyed from the heresy books.

>> No.19858844

However, it is possible that there is another reason for Alpharius leading his Legion to the side of the traitors, a secret known only inside the Legion. Around two years before the beginning of the Heresy, Alpharius Omegon was apparently contacted by members of a Xenos organisation called the Cabal, who brought to him visions of the impending civil war within the Imperium, and expanded knowledge of the nature and designs of Chaos. It is believed that the Cabal convinced Alpharius that the only way to permanently defeat Chaos was to ensure that Horus was victorious. It is perhaps for this reason that Alpharius Omegon, secretly true to the Imperium and loyal to the Emperor, may have chosen to join the heretics.[1]

>> No.19858856

>>19858823
I've read it, as well as Deliverance Lost and there's nothing to suggest the Alpha Legion are loyal. Going just by Legion, siding with Horus at the behest of a bunch of Xenos so that Horus can kill the Emperor and eventually humanity as a whole does not make one Loyal.

>> No.19858878

>>19858844
That speculation is retarded, you cannot be loyal to the Emperor and the Imperium when you attempt to kill both.

>> No.19858979

>writers depict them dying in droves in almost every other battle
>still the most numerous and powerful Traitor Legion
>fuck yeah

>> No.19858999

>>19858844
>possible
>apparently
>believed
>perhaps

yeah, I'm not taking this. Also if you want to nitpick then
>the only way to permanently defeat Chaos was to ensure that Horus was victorious
this doesn't say, the only way to defeat chaos is to pretend to be chaos to the extent of getting deamon princes, creating chaos cults and attacking the imperium for the next 10000 years, where does defeating chaos fit into this master plan?

>> No.19859169

Red Corsairs. Everyone else is old and busted.

>> No.19859176

>>19859169
They're not a Traitor Legion, cockbite.

>> No.19859184

>>19859176

Anyone who rejects the Emprah's Light is a traitor.

>> No.19859202

>>19859184
A chapter is not a legion

>> No.19859205

>>19859176
We Legion sized, only Black Legion is bigger. If the Red Corsairs don't count then most of the other Oldfags don't count either. Red Corsairs are the new hotness. Cope with the situation.

>> No.19859208

>>19859184
Still not a Traitor Legion any more than the Space Sharks are a Founding Chapter.

>> No.19859212

>>19859202
(or a warband)

>> No.19859223

>>19859205
It doesn't fucking matter how many guys the Red Corsairs have.
There are nine Traitor Legions, the Red Corsairs are none of those.

>> No.19859239

>>19859223
stop being an arse

>> No.19859240

>>19859223
We are now, accept it and make way for the REAL traitor Space Marines.

>> No.19859255

>>19859202

Though to be fair they rival the size of a traitor legion now

>> No.19859268

>>19859239
Stop being a faggot.
>>19859240
Bitch, the traitor legions have been fighting the dogs of the False Emperor longer than your chapter has existed. You're babbies.

>> No.19859319

>>19858297
That just makes them worse. I'm for the destruction of the Imperium and putting an end to the hypocrisy.

Also, Emperors Children is my favourite legion for similar reasons I like Dark Eldar.

>> No.19859320

>>19859268
>the traitor legions have been fighting the dogs of the False Emperor longer than your chapter has existed.

All that does is highlight your patheticness and how little that's been accomplished in ten thousand years.
All you Legionfags do is suck off your primarches, whine about the Horus Heresy and jack off in the Eye of Terror as you slowly die off. The Corsairs are a lean, mean, reaving machine, kicking ass and taking ships.

>> No.19859332

I'm a huge Emperor's Children fanboy, mainly because I suck Slaaneshi cock.

CHILDREN OF THE EMPEROR, DEATH TO HIS FOES!

>> No.19859335

Night Lords

since they just hate everyone

>> No.19859348

>>19859320
And yet no matter how much you try, you will never be a Traitor Legion.
The whole pirate gig is cute though. Not exactly new or unique, but cute.

>> No.19859357

>>19857177
The ultramarines.

>> No.19859380

>>19859348
>And yet no matter how much you try, you will never be a Traitor Legion.

We out number and out gun almost all of the Traitor Legions, we have surpassed you and in only a few centuries. To become a Traitor legion would be a backwards step.

>The whole pirate gig is cute though. Not exactly new or unique, but cute.

It is better than any number of failed gimmicks.

>> No.19859406

I'm into Iron Warriors mostly because of Peturabo fluff. The goddamn Iron Cage was awesome.

As for a whole legion collectively, though, gotta be the Death Guard. Creepiest fuckers out of all of them.

Oh, and there is the possibility of the Alpha Legion being loyal. The book "Legion" is canon, and is all from the Alpha Legion's perspective.

It doesn't prove anything, though - that is deliberate. Mostly, GW-approved authors are cockteases. But also remember that most of the legions, and especially their Primarchs, are shown to have started with a perfectly reasonable position and been twisted by Chaos into going to such an extreme that they ended up the opposite of what they stood for. That's the point. None of them just rebelled for the lulz. Even if the Alpha Legion's actions were originally motivated by loyalty - even if they still are - they're still traitors. They've just done too much damage for too long.

Oh, and, they might be traitors, but they are not Chaos. Not as an entire legion - individuals may vary, though.

>> No.19859422

>>19859380
You are still eclipsed by even the Word Bearers.
In fact, the Word Bearers matter significantly more than you as well, and that's not even getting into the Black Legion.

>> No.19859431

>>19859380
Sadly this is true.

Huron have done in a few centuries what the older Legions have not managed to do in then thousand years.

I don't really find that the Red Corsairs have as distinct an identity as the other legions, but at the very least you get the feeling that they might actually do something.

Of course taking into account GW`s preference for developmental stasis, it is unlikely anything big will happen but it still the Red Corsairs actually did manage to profit and advance.

>> No.19859435

>>19859380
not being part of the Emperors Children and not giving a fuck about the crush the Imperium cause

Emperors Children just treat everything as their plaything and don't care for politics.

>> No.19859449

>>19859406
>Oh, and there is the possibility of the Alpha Legion being loyal. The book "Legion" is canon, and is all from the Alpha Legion's perspective.

The Cabal's plan requires the Emperor and all of Humanity to die. You could suppose Alpharius and Omegon - the rest of the Legion are left in the Dark - are doing it for a greater good, but they are still huge-ass traitors.

>Oh, and, they might be traitors, but they are not Chaos. Not as an entire legion - individuals may vary, though.

Almost every Alpha Legion character who has shown up after the Heresy has been Chaos tainted.

>> No.19859471

>>19859431
What, build up numbers and guns?
Been there, done that.

>> No.19859479

>>19859422
>You are still eclipsed by even the Word Bearers.

No, only the Black Legion can claim to wield greater power. The Word Bearers cower in our shadow in the Maelstrom.

>In fact, the Word Bearers matter significantly more than you as well

They are weak fools, their part long since played out.

>the Black Legion

Soon even they shall be overcome.

>> No.19859523

>>19859479
Sure thing. Huron Blackheart can arm wrestle Abaddon for it.
What's that? Abaddon would leave him a greasy smear? That's a shame.

The strength of the Word Bearers lie in their masses of daemons and ability to unite the faithful.
Who do you honestly think more people will back? Erebus, corrupter of Horus, or you?

>> No.19859564

>>19859523
Abaddon is a powerful champion, it is true. But his failures are piling up, how long until the Chaos Gods choose a new favored son?

Erebus is a relic of the past, doing nothing but squandering the pitiful remnants of the Word Bearers on infighting and power plays with the even older relic that is Kor Phaeron. Huron is a mighty Lord and renegade humans and xenos alike heed his call.

>> No.19859565

>>19859435
isn't there some fluff about some black legion trying to recruit some emperors children for abbadon and the emps kiddies kill all but one of them and then tell one guy to tell abbadon they'd love to help

>> No.19859566

>>19859471

Most of the legions are not building up.

They are just jabbering disorganized hooligans that gets kicked into place by Abbadon for one of his crusades, which they will promptly lose.

None of them have done so well as the Red Corsairs if it it true that the Red Corsairs are at legion strength.

Of course given time i have no doubt that the Red Corsairs too would end up as Cobra Commander level laughing stock, but here GW`s fear of advancing the timeline works for them.

The Red Corsairs will forever be just a few centuries old and the other legions will have ten thousand years of failing hamstringing their reputation.

>> No.19859580

Emperor's Children because fuck the Emperor.

No, seriously. Fuck him in the ass, on the Golden Throne, while the Custodes watch. I like it when others watch.

>> No.19859583

>>19859523

Not in 6th ed.

Until the new chaos codex is released Abbadons pigsticker is nerfed.

>> No.19859590

>>19859449

>The Cabal's plan requires the Emperor and all of Humanity to die. You could suppose Alpharius and Omegon - the rest of the Legion are left in the Dark - are doing it for a greater good, but they are still huge-ass traitors.

Yes, I did agree that they are traitors, and also that it is as unlikely that they are not traitors, as it is for any other traitor legion. As I said, the whole point of their stories is that they *all* thought that that they were doing the right thing at the time.

Funny story - the fluff used to say all sorts of different things. One of these things was that the Inquisition knew that the Emperor dying was inevitable, and that a replacement would have to be found (in The Lost and the Damned, I think). There are so many possibilities that, without explicit word-of-god denial (like with the Squats), almost anything's possible.

>Almost every Alpha Legion character who has shown up after the Heresy has been Chaos tainted.

The few that they write stories about, sure; because it makes them more easily able to integrate with other traitor legions or cultist rebels, etc., since the Alpha Legion characters are rarely the stars of the material they appear in. Just the same, there's no evidence of - for example - wide-scale mutations like with the Iron Warriors, or explicitly wearing chaos symbols like with the Word Bearers.

>> No.19859592

Also, Word Bearers aren't a traitor legion. They're simply hipster ecclesiarchy. They worshiped the Emperor before it was cool.

>> No.19859599

>>19859564
He's a pirate king with delusions.

>> No.19859612

>>19859566
You don't get what I'm saying. A major part of 40k is the decay of all things. The Traitor Legions, much like everything else, are a shadow of what they once were.
The Red Corsairs are like the Tau. They're so new they haven't had a chance to fall flat on their faces.

>> No.19859616

>>19859599

Complaining about a chaos warlord being delusional is like saying that a normal human is metabolizing oxygen.

Correct, but unremarkable.

>> No.19859618

>>19859599
A Pirate King with the second mightiest force of Space Marines in existence. A force that he built up in only a few centuries, where could the Red Corsairs be in but a few more?

>> No.19859621

>>19859590
Except the Squats are back to being canon.

>> No.19859634

>>19859612
The Red Corsairs already had their fall, it was called the Badab War. They've emerged stronger than ever before.

>> No.19859640

>>19859612

Exactly, and the point is that as long as they have not fallen on their face they look amazing compared to a bunch of guys that have fallen on their face so often that there still are pieces of tarmac wedged into their faces,

>> No.19859645

>>19859616
True, but still relevant.
>>19859618
At the head of a squabbling rabble? So... Abaddon but weaker?
>>19859634
The Badab War was their rebellion. If that counts, so does the Horus Heresy.

>> No.19859666

>>19859645
>At the head of a squabbling rabble? So... Abaddon but weaker?

They're organised, and Abaddon but weaker is still stronger than everyone else.

>The Badab War was their rebellion. If that counts, so does the Horus Heresy.

Yes, both count, both were lost, the Legions dwindle away pining for lost Glory, the Red Corsairs grow and strengthen, their ambitions burning brighter than ever.

>> No.19859687

>>19859666
In the centuries immediately following the Heresy, they Legions were so far above where the Red Corsairs are now they would be like a boot to an ant.
Nice try though, the Red Corsairs are real impressive because they're the new hotness.

>> No.19859693

Get out of here TIDF in disguise.

>> No.19859709

>>19859621

Back to *ever having existed*, yes, but they're relegated to a casual mention explaining why they're gone and can never return.

>> No.19859723

>>19859709
They're mentioned on the list of still-living abhumans, bro.

>> No.19859726

>>19859687
>In the centuries immediately following the Heresy, they Legions were so far above where the Red Corsairs are now they would be like a boot to an ant.

No, you don't get it. The Corsairs are Legion sized, they went from less than 200 after their defeat to the size of a Space Marine Legion in only a few hundred years.
The Traitor Legions were mauled after the heresy, there glory has been eclipsed.

>> No.19859740

Alpha legion

Hydra dominatus and all that

>> No.19859747

>>19859693
Who's talking about Tau?

>> No.19859750

>>19859726
Do you have a point?
In those days, they still had purpose, drive, primarchs who didn't sit around with their thumbs up their asses. See the Iron Cage.
By this point, there are few left in any of the Legions who were alive for the the Heresy. Ten thousand years is a long time.
They've lost focus. That's why they kill for the sake of killing.

>> No.19859752

>>19859723

Yes, of course a tiny number of individuals still exist in canon. I mean that they're no longer a living race, they're no longer a *playable* race (except *perhaps* the occasional random squad in an Imperial Guard or Tau army - except they're not making models for them), and that this situation will never change.

>> No.19859769

>>19859752
>The remaining abhuman races are variously present across the entire Imperium. In some regions they are plentiful and common, living in large colonies or even populating entire worlds, in others they are scarce and virtually unknown.

[X] TOLDBERONE

>> No.19859773

>>19859750
My point is the Red Corsairs are the now size of the Space Marine Legions of old. To say that they would be an ant to the boot of the Traitor legions following the Heresy is wrong. The Red Corsairs are stronger than that.

>> No.19859779

>>19859726
I don't think you get that the traitor legions constantly have new recruits. You think Fabius Bile just do silly science?

Chaos Space Marines are beyond needing to spend years to modify a human the scientific way. Even Abaddon was never a Space Marine just a guy that got fed steroids and now he is above most of his peers.

>> No.19859812

>>19859779
What? Abaddon was Horus' second in command.during the Crusade.
>>19859773
Immediately following the Horus Heresy and Badab War, in both cases? Red Corsairs get stomped. After a few centuries to rebuild, in both cases? Red Corsairs still get stomped because that was when the Legions were really at the top of their game and the primarchs still ran around with them.

>> No.19859816

Thousand Sons. Ahzek Ahriman is a bad ass.

>> No.19859818

>>19859779
>I don't think you get that the traitor legions constantly have new recruits.

Not constantly, many are incredibly hostile to new bloods.

>Chaos Space Marines are beyond needing to spend years to modify a human the scientific way. Even Abaddon was never a Space Marine just a guy that got fed steroids and now he is above most of his peers.

Abaddon is a Space Marine. Luther and Kor Phaeron weren't proper Space Marines.

>> No.19859835

>>19859769

Sigh. "Tiny" can easily mean millions in the context of the entire fucking Milky Way galaxy.

1) The Squats exist, but you can't play an army of them; in fact, you can't play even a single squad of them. This will not change.
2) They are not their own distinct race; they are merely abhumans - humans possessing general non-chaotic mutations/genetic variations enough to make them visibly distinguishable from humans, but *nevertheless still humans*.
3) There are far less Squats than there are Eldar. They are doomed to eventual extinction.

For all practical purposes, they are gone. They technically exist *only* in that one piece of fluff you've referenced.

>> No.19859846

>>19859812
>Immediately following the Horus Heresy and Badab War, in both cases? Red Corsairs get stomped.

Of course, they were only a Chapter.

>After a few centuries to rebuild, in both cases? Red Corsairs still get stomped because that was when the Legions were really at the top of their game and the primarchs still ran around with them.

No, the Primarches were dead or broken, and the Legions were too. They've never recaptured their glory of the Great Crusade when they really were at the top of their game.

>> No.19859868

>>19859835
1) So?
2) They have been abhuman since their conception, you fucking horse's ass.
3) Says who?

>> No.19859875

>All this Red Corsair faggotry
Just remember, you shall never be a legion. Hurry up and accept Abaddon as your Spiritual Liege.

>> No.19859887

>>19859875

Eh, By now Kharn is a better leader than Abbadon.

He at least gets what he wants.

>> No.19859899

>>19859846
The fuck are you talking about?
A couple centuries after the Heresy, all the traitor primarchs were doing dandy with the possible exception of Curze.

>> No.19859907

>>19859875
>Just remember, you shall never be a legion.

They're as stong as an Old Legion, and second only to Abaddon and his Black Legion. All the other Legions can suck Corsair dick.

>Hurry up and accept Abaddon as your Spiritual Liege.

The Red Corsairs have not, but the Traitor Legions have.

>> No.19859917

Legion-Iron Warriors

who i actually play-Red Corsairs

love the fluff and my best friend plays space wolves...so it makes for a better game when we yell at each other about who's ship it is floating above the planet

>> No.19859921

>>19859899

I don't know if suicidal depression and/or willingness to di to prove a point to a coma patient really counts as doing much.

>> No.19859934

>>19859921
Which is why I said with the possible exception of him.
At this point, the Thousand Sons were still a fully sapient legion, for instance.

>> No.19859947

>>19859899
Kurze was broken, Mortarion was off sulking on the Plague Planet, Magnus on the Planet of Sorcerers, and Lorgar on Sicarius. The Iron Cage was the only big success but even then Perturabo went and joined his brother is sulking.

>> No.19859961

>>19859868

1) So, at one point there was WORD OF GOD insistence that they are gone forever. A throwaway paragraph from a bit of fluff doesn't change that.
2) No, Second Ed. Codex Imperialis says that the race became "no longer human". They derived from humans, more than 30,000 years ago; long before the Empire and even the Age of Strife. They were an Empire in their own right, covering the largest area of space in the known galaxy aside from the (later) Imperium of Man, and holding off Chaos, Orks and other xenos without allies for more than 20 millenia. They then were recognised by the Imperium of Man as an independent empire in exchange for trade and military assistance (Age of Apostacy was the official end of ANY Imperial rule of ANY Squat world). They were about as human as the Necrons.
3) ... Fine. Can't remember where this came from, and I can't find it now. It's probably there somewhere, but I'll concede just the same. Are you happy?

>> No.19859987

>>19859947

Never really thought it over before.

But Perturabo and possibly Alpharius are the only ones who did anything constructive after the Heresy?

And after a slight delay Perturabo decided that sulking was a grand idea and joined in himself.?

This shit is so sad that even the 80ies Cobras and Decepticons comes off looking fine in comparison.

>> No.19859992

>>19859934
No, after the burning of Prospero the Thousand Sons had been drastically reduced in size, they played little Part in the rest of the Heresy and became Automata after fleeing back to the planet of Sorcerors after Horus' death.

>> No.19860007

>>19859961
...Except that's what an abhuman is.
They're a stable race that evolved from humans. Their binomial name, from Rogue Trader? Homo sapiens, subspecies rotundus.
You're an idiot.

>> No.19860015

>>19859992
Nope.
They became automata after the Rubric of Ahriman, which was cast some time after they had been mutating out of control.

>> No.19860049

>>19860015
While they were all on the Plaent of Sorcerers following the defeat of Horus. They weren't doing anything in the interim, besides putting together the rubric, and sulking of course.

>> No.19860052

>>19860015

That is correct, but they still had been mauled by the Space Wolves, lost their homeworld, lost their Primarch to apparently contagious sulking and they were mutating into warpspawn worryingly quickly.

All in all they were in a pretty bad way.

>> No.19860056

>>19860049
And that means they're weak somehow?

>> No.19860061

Red Corsair guy is almost as bad as TIDF

>> No.19860074

>>19860056
Yes. Following the Heresy the primaches have been nothing but trash. They are powerful combatants but that in itself wouldn't win a war between two legion sized forces.

>> No.19860084

>>19860074
Except Leman Russ pretty much singlehandedly wiped the floor with the entire Thousand Sons.
So yeah, Magnus just might.

>> No.19860087

>>19860007
In second edition, they were distinct. They were abhuman in the distant past, they now are again; but in second edition they were *not human*.

It's a side issue anyhow. The real point is #1, which is what you originally attacked me on.

Squats might get a mention here or there, but they're as gone as you can get without being outright ignored (and only because ignoring them didn't work).

>You're an idiot.
Nolo contendere.

>> No.19860089

>>19860061
I see.

>> No.19860111

>Angron
>Defeated by a Brotherhood of Grey Knights
>Mortarion
>Defeated by a Brotherhood of Grey Knights
>Huron Blackheart
>Killed a Brotherhood of Grey Knights

Come at me Legion losers.

>> No.19860112

>>19860089

What have Science/Chaos done?

>> No.19860123

>>19860074

Angron managed to single-handedly take out the whole first (veteran terminators) company of the Grey Knights in the First Battle for Armageddon.

He got them down from 100 to just 5 before the wounds piled up enough for them to be able to banish him.

>> No.19860132

>>19860087
...But 2e was the edition in which they were eaten by Tyranids.
Frankly, you can field an entire army of Squats. You just don't get rules for them. Cry me a river.

>> No.19860146

>>19860123
No, his bodyguard of the twelve most powerful Bloodthirsters, a horde of lesser Daemons, including Skulltaker and his World Eaters helped him a lot more than that. Aurelian and his squad managed to beat him.

>> No.19860151

>>19860056

It meant that they are weak because they got their asses kicked by the Space Wolves, then dumped virtually emptyhanded on their new planet, then their Primarch went: You guys suck, imma be in the corner over there cutting myself.

Then they started mutating far worse than they did before.

Fact is if they had been attacked before the Rubric was completed a foe might conceivably have won simply by letting the Thousand Sons mutate themselves into oblivion.

>> No.19860153

Emperor's Children because Fuck you. I am a genetically modified super human and I am going to paint my armor bright neon pink. Deal with it nerds.

>> No.19860158

>>19860061
YOU PUSHED HIM TO FAR YOU FOOL.

>> No.19860165

>>19860151
Or they might have killed him in a wave of Chaos spawn.

>> No.19860175

>>19860132

Nope. Third edition.
Well, actually, it wasn't made official until 4th edition. It's just that they were in 2nd edition and not in 3rd edition, it's assumed that it must have been then.

>Frankly, you can field an entire army of Squats. You just don't get rules for them.

Missing the point, much? My only actual point was that, unless something has Word Of God denial (*like Squats*), nothing is certain.

Not even then, actually, since they can and have changed their minds (*like Squats!*), at least a little.

>> No.19860177

>>19860165
>Implying Chaos Spawn are good.

>> No.19860193

>>19860158
>>19860112
>>19860089

I have created yet another [Faction Name] Internet Defence Force, my theory held true...

>> No.19860211

>>19860193
To create such monsters...
Is that you Fabulous Bill?

>> No.19860224

>>19860211

I cannot say so no, although i hold him in high regard...

>> No.19860241

Actually, that's a good point. Angron was banished for a thousand years and a day after Armageddon 1; which was only about 500 years ago.

If he and other Primarchs can get banished for 1000 years at a time, no wonder they don't get much done. The only way you can have the Imperium still standing is if they get their asses kicked as soon as they show up.

>> No.19860258 [DELETED] 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASj81daun5Q
---
Who is our enemy? We do not know.

How strong is it? This is not know to us either.

From where will it come? We can only guess.

Then why does it come here? That is the only thing we know for sure, Brothers.

To destroy us.

To kill, to burn, to maim and torture. To wipe our Chapter from existence and erase it's name from all the records. Prophecy foretold us that we will perish on this world, our Chapter Master himself will fall, trying to stop the unstoppable. But we will not run. We will not hide. And no, we will not try to cheat Fate. We are too subtle for that. We will take it by the neck, kick it's teeth in and then stick a bayonet up it's arse. No one messes with this Chapter, not Death, not Chaos, not Gods, Laughing or not, not even Fate itself! For we are Ghosts of Retribution and no grave shall take us until we are done with you. Let them come. We wait.
------
NEW PLAYERS - don't be afraid to join us for a chat in here: http://cbe005.chat.mibbit.com/?channel=%23RisingSons&server=irc.Rizon.net
OUR WIKI: http://chapterquest.wikia.com/wiki/Chapter_Quest_Wiki
----
Pic made by Chapter Master PC game team, let's support them however we can and prove that /tg/ can get shit done!

>> No.19860267 [DELETED] 

>>19860258
Sorry, posted in a thread by accident

>> No.19860288

>>19860241
Mortarion didn't get banished, he just ran away. Magnus occasionally shows up to fight Space Wolves, but the rest just don't do shit.

>> No.19860311

>>19860288

They just sit there........planning

>> No.19860325

World eaters. BLOOOD FOR THE BLOOOOOOD GAAAAAAAAHHHDDKSLDKDLSJDSKLD

>> No.19860328

>>19860311

And in another ten thousand years they might even do something.

>> No.19860360

Alpha Legion, because they are secretly maybe good guys.

>> No.19860368

>>19860241
Something tells me the Chaos primarchs would suck at League of Legends. None of them seem able to coordinate their pushes with their teammates' respawn timers.

>> No.19860398

>>19860368
I hate you so much right now

>> No.19860441

>>19860398
Geez, if it's really that big of a deal, you can just pretend I said DotA.

>> No.19860449

My favorite traitor legion would have to be the Death Guard, just because I can't seem to shake the mental image that going to their battle-barge would be a lot like visiting an old folks home. With offers of hard candy, gifts from Nurgle, and tales of the great crusades abound.

>> No.19860450

Sons of malal or the warp ghosts (That paint scheme is boss on chaos marines.)

>> No.19860513

The Alpha Legion is likely traitor, as Alpharius was pretty set on helping Horus.

But in "The Serpent's Lair," we see Omegon sabotage Alpharius's attempt to keep the White Scars away from Terra. Omegon is captain of the Effrit Stealth Squad, which IIRC is the 8th Squad in the Alpha Legion. We also see that Omegon has an unadorned suit of grey armor in his room.

Then there's this quote by Grand Master Khyron, the first Grand Master of the 8th Brotherhood of the Grey Knights: "Already, you exalt me for my triumphs, when I ask only that you remember me for my treacheries. Victory is nothing more than survival. It carries no weight of honour or worth beyond what we ascribe to it. If you wish to grow wise, learn why brothers betray brothers."

Sounds to me like Omegon decided that the survival of humanity was more important than burning Chaos from the galaxy, and decided to betray Alpharius to do so. He may well have joined the Grey Knights and given up Alpharius to Guilliman.

>> No.19860587

>>19860513
Heh, now wouldn't it just be perfect if Khal Drogo or whatever that bullshit mary-sue Grey Knights character was called turned out to be Omegon. Just tooling on daemons for 10,000 years for no other reason than to win a millenia-old pissing contest with his brother.

>> No.19861002

Sons of Malice, because Malal is the best Chaos God, even if GW can't speak his name without the GW legal team pooping a little in fear.

In recent canon, the Sons of Malice were a fairly standard SM army, except some pissant Inquisitor got buttmad that they had tribal customs they adhered to. She tried to pull rank on a bunch of bloodlusting Space Marines to make them stop and got herself cut in half for her trouble. So they were excommunicated and their homeworld blasted to rubble.

But no, that didn't stop them. They ended up paling around with Chaos for a little bit, but only long enough to get back to their homeworld, and now kick the shit out of both the Traitor Legions *and* the Imperium with impunity.

>> No.19861891

>>19861002
'cut her in half' is a light way of putting it.....they sacrificed and ate her

>> No.19861933

>>19861002
You forgot to mention that they slaughtered (and presumably ate) the strike force of Sororitas Celestians the Inquisitor brought with her.

>> No.19862978

>>19860513
>>19860587
That would be...woah

>> No.19863534

Black Legion
>13 crusades that didn't actually fail as much as people want to think they did
>largest, most organized legion
>Known for things like wiping out the Blood Angels first company, stealing weapons powerful enough to destroy stars, etc
>Led by a dude that the Chaos Gods want to promote, but he keeps telling them to fuck their couches until he gets to Terra

Red Corsairs:
>Stole some ships
>Numbers have grown because all the whiny, rebellious chaos-newfags decided to run away from home and join them
>Leader took a melta gun to the face and lived, which is pretty boss

And before anyone mentions, "B-But the Traitor Legions have been at it for 10k years and the Corsairs just started!" The Legions that turned traitor had some amazing track records preheresy.

>> No.19863579

First Claw here, Huron is a fag.

>> No.19865252

>>19863579

Eh, I like bit of the stuff ADB has written about the Night Lords, especially "Void Stalker" and am eagerly anticipating "Prince of Crows" in October, but Spurrier's "Lord of the Night" will forever remain my favorite.

>> No.19865304

>>19865252

It is quite the primer, yes.

>> No.19865318

Iron Warriors no doubt.

>> No.19865379

>>19865304

Sevatar seems to be quite the cool guy as well.

"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it?

The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always."

-- First Captain Sevatar, when asked why the Night Lords aren't the Emperor's sanction force against other Legions.

>> No.19865743

>> No.19865880

For the look: Thousand Sons
For everything else: Nightlords.

>> No.19866067

>>19859987
Preturabo built/is building the most defensive position in the galaxy. Even Holy Terra requires physics, but not so in chaos. He's been rebuilding and strengthening a planet since the Iron Cage. Nothing could take it. Nothing. That's a worthy goal and accomplishment.

>> No.19866105

But Lord of the Night and love the Nightlords forevermore.

Buy Storm of Iron and IRON WITHIN IRON WITHOUT SERVANTS OF THE FALSE EMPEROR

>> No.19866384

Fuck the Imperium, the Traitor Legions and their Primarchs have lost most of their interest in it. They have more important things to do in the Warp, and little to gain destroying the Imperium that they don't already have, and quite a bit to lose. The Gods matter, and their will and gifts matter, and you can get those much more easily in the Warp/Eye of Terror. The Imperium is good for material raids, pleasing the gods with conquest and holy sacrifices, and bloodshed. Only a few Legions still focus on fighting the Imperium, while most content themselves with gaining immense power and status while occasionally murdering ancient foes (see Thousand Sons). Abbadon and the Black Legion are the leaders of the Black Crusades, and they and the Iron Warriors/Alpha Legion are the only ones with enough of a hateboner to bother.

The Red Corsairs' passion and hatred will burn out in a few millennium, if they don't fracture and die (likely) before that.

Also here's your weekly reminder that most of the Black Crusades aren't about taking Cadia or direct conquest, and many of them have succeed in their aims.

>> No.19866468

>>19866384
>Important stuff in the warp
Like what?
Infighting? Ruling over rotting worthless words in a dimension nobodygivesafuckabout?

>Black Crusades suceeding
Seems like some desperate Tzeentch logic to me;
"Oh yea well it was all just a big feint and we really accomplished what we wanted to, CHAOS WINS AGAIN! What? No I'm not crying, Shut up!"

I thought the whole point was that the Chaos gods were jealous/resentful of the emperor for his declared divinity, and wanted to destroy the empire because they saw humanity as their playthings.

>> No.19866502

>>19866468
>words
Meant "worlds".

>> No.19866527

I keep hearing that the Red Corsairs are "Legion-sized" in this thread. I know they were called the Tyrant's Legion, but I thought there was only a few thousand. If that's considered a Legion, they'd be the tiniest Legion of all. They'd barely be able to best the pre-Primarch Thousand Sons or Emperor's Children, when they were said to be almost extinct. And yet I hear people here say that "only the Black Legion is bigger and badder."

What the heck happened to the Red Corsairs that I missed? When did they go from a few thousand to tens of thousands, hundred or more?

>> No.19866576

Deathguard- they look cool

World Eaters-I mean come on they eat worlds they must be cool. And red is my favorite color, also they look cool

>> No.19866614

>>19866468
The thing you're missing is that Chaos does not consider the Imperium to be its ultimate nemesis. Now, many chaos worshipers DO, but ultimately the Chaos gods don't really give a fuck about the Imperium any more than they do about any other humans (when it amuses them to do so), and that attitude filters down to the more connected followers. Now, some followers just cannot let go, but they're being Chaotic by doing that, they're being hateful, which is fine. The Chaos gods DID view the Emperor as a threat, but he was crippled and effectively killed 10000 years ago. The rotting remnants of his empire are not a threat to the Ruinous Powers, just a source for battle, emotion, goods, and slaves.

And the Warp has shit the Materium cannot imagine, and planet Imperialbumfuck or even Cadia can't provide the immense power that the Everychanging (not SP) Eye of ASzlotIt can, nor the entertainment that the 9193 Limbed Dancer of BloodSkulls can provide. Frankly, there isn't much to do OUTSIDE the warp save hunt slaves and kill Imperials. Not to mention that the favor of the Ruinous Powers, all important, is far more readily gained in the Immaterium.

also
>implying Glutton-Lord Achheris the Ruinor of the Cabal of Eyes cares whether High Lord Assfucker Supreme knows about his many-fold triumphs.

>> No.19866623

>>19866614
>they're being Chaotic
They're NOT, damn it.

>> No.19866651

>>19866614

Except that's not true, about Chaos not giving a fuck. They give all the fucks. That was the entire point of the past ten thousand years, and the whole reason why they tried to so hard to have a Heresy happen. Because they gave all of the fucks.

>> No.19866676

>>19866468
Also, yes, many Black Crusades have succeeded, because usually the goal is to cripple (not conquer) the Imperium (because Abbadon hates it more than words can describe), take slaves, wealth, and weapons/supplies back to the Eye of Terror seize hidden artifacts, and/or kill off Abbadon's Rivals, all of which require going AROUND Cadia, and none of which require conquering it. Now, a few crusades did try to take Cadia, and failed, but then Cadia has a ton of the Imperium's resources protecting it, vast naval superiority, a huge number of space marines protecting it, the benefit of chaos infighting (because killing the Imperium and getting enslaved by that one asshole you ignored is worse than losing, frankly). And yet Abbadon took half of Cadia ANYWAY.

Abbadon is a hell of a lot more competent that /tg/ likes to joke. I do like the jokes, mind you, but still, he is.

>> No.19866693

>>19866614
>Lol the warp is so awesome you can't even imagine how cool it is Chaos doesn't need your pathetic material universe!
>Oh but we desperately need your resources, materials, technology, slaves etc. because the warp is a desolate shithole.

Just admit it, it makes way more sense that Chaos is resentful of the Empire/Emperor.

>> No.19866699

>>19866676

Well, that's rather obvious, though. I think /tg/'s jokes on Abaddon are just that. Jokes. Abaddon has no arms because of someone posting a picture of an unfinished model of Abaddon, asking for advice. It's not like /tg/ actually believes he has no arms.

>> No.19866754

>>19866693
Chaos doesn't NEED a ton of supplies, it's just that they are unfairly distributed. Warlord A has a ton of manufactures, magical armor, horrible legions, ect, but Warlord B has 10000 followers, an Admiral he knows who can carry him, and very little in the way of weapons or ammo. Warlord A doesn't need to raid (but will at some point, because Glory and Bloodshed and also fighting the same dudes for 1000 years gets a wee bit dull), but Warlord B needs ammo and wealth so he can over throw Warlord A and get his shit, and the Imperium is as good a target as any, and not likely to piss off anyone that doesn't already despise him.

Also getting parts for Titans is hard, as is Gene-seed, even in the Warp (well, you CAN get it there, but do you want it to fuck you over? No, so you don't.)

>>19866651
They gave all the fucks about the Emperor, who was as strong as anyone has ever been, ever. Not the Imperium. Now, a damn large number of Chaos Followers do give a shit, and even those that don't hate the Imperium utterly, but still, the Gods themselves only see Imperials as another sort of plaything.

>> No.19866793

>>19866699
Eh, it often seems like some people on /tg/ don't realize that it's a joke, and that Abaddon is actually not just an incompetent buffoon, so it's good to give out this sort of info every once in a while.

And don't get me wrong, I love the jokes. They're damn funny. I just want to get the info out there. Feel free to ignore me or tell me to suck cocks if I'm being annoying.

>> No.19866798

Alpha Legion, because while other legions have their moments, they're the only ones with pragmatism, infiltration, and winning battles before they're even fought as official policy.

Also, a lone Legionnaire brought down an entire Smurf Chapter without firing a shot himself. And that's apparently a standard tactic for the Alpha Legion.

>> No.19866805

>>19866754

All the fucks they gave about the Emperor was about him TAKING HUMANITY AWAY FROM THEM. Because that would apparently damage them significantly enough to have all four of them literally risk their own existences to prevent it.

That's a lot of fucks to give, bro.

>> No.19866855

>>19866805
Or possibly killing them, who knows, if anyone could have done it it was the Emperor.

But yeah, they probably do care about humanity, if only because we've proven ourselves to be such good pawns/toys. But the Imperium can't take mankind away. The Imperium is dying, and has spent the last 10000 years desperately trying to stop its own bitter death, and has only barely managed that. The Chaos gods seem far more interested in fighting/competing with each other than the ultimately nonthreatening Imperium. If they did care more, Abaddon would be another Horus, the more devout legions would spend less time in the Warp, and the Imperium would get hit with the same sort of horrible manipulation that the Emperor fell to. Chaos doesn't want the Imperium to fall, or doesn't want it very much. Chaos followers like the legions and heretics DO, but why should the Gods care what their followers want? Let them prove themselves, or die amusingly.

>> No.19866889

>>19866699
That joke comes from the fact that the model's arms were notoriously unstable and prone to falling off.

>> No.19866899

>>19866855

No, only the Emperor can. But Chaos succeeded in taking the Emperor out of the equation. Humanity is their playground now, whatever its resistance. But wherever their attention lies, it's clear that Humanity is somehow important to them. Nobody goes to such extreme lengths, literally risking everything, for something that's not important. All four Gods wouldn't risk their own lives for the sake of a favored toy. And all the Emperor wanted to do was remove Humanity from their clutches. That was apparently a major deal to them, something they absolutely had to stop. And they almost did die for it to happen.

>> No.19866972

>>19866899
I don't know, seems like he was more trying to kill them via humanity than simply removing mankind from their grasp (which would have been impossible, being atheist doesn't stop the daemons, and cultists did and would still pop up).

But that doesn't matter for this argument, because I never said they aren't interested in Mankind. I said they didn't care about the Imperium as an entity. The Heretics and rogue psykers on Holy Terra prove pretty thoroughly that the Imperium isn't capable of prevent Chaos from using mankind. Nor do the Chaos gods need people to be their worshipers to fuck with them/use them. Chaos needs amusement and tools, and mankind is good for that, while not (without the Emperor) being able to stop the Gods.

Hell, could be that the Gods helped create the primarches (or whatever their involvement in the Primarch creation was) and do the Heresy was, in part, to create and then gain control of Space Marines, who are both very powerful servants and not banish-able. Seems unlikely, but Chaos is hardly predictable.

>> No.19867019

>>19866527
Badab War-era Astral Claws were around 5000-strong which was about as big as some of the smaller legions and half-strength for most.
Essentially, everyone heard that Huron and the Astral Claws are total badass space pirates who give no shits destroying the Imperium but love getting loot and bitches and have a pretty decent infrastructure left over (iirc they were left with a little less than full chapter strength after Badab).

>> No.19867033

It changes from time to time between Black Legion, Emperor's Children and World Eaters. Truth is, I like all of them.

>> No.19867054

>>19867019
Apparently the Legion size was upgraded to 100,000, which makes the Red Corsairs both more impressive and ludicrous.

>> No.19867146

>>19866972

Well, that's what I was alluding to about removing them from their grasp. Obviously them being in their grasp is important, perhaps because they actually need them. So removing them might kill them. But we don't know that. All we know is that the Emperor was trying to put as many barriers as possible between the Warp and Mankind. All we know is that his goals were to remove Mankind from their grasp. The consequences of it must have been dire, maybe a life or death matter, but we don't really know.

The Imperium and Mankind are pretty synonymous in 40k. It's the Imperium of Man after all. By saying "Chaos don't care about the Imps," you're going to have people assume you mean "Chaos don't care about the humans."

Either way, I don't think it's true. Chaos does care about the Imperium. The Chaos Gods don't see it as a threat any more, but many of their servants, whether mortal or not, do. If for nothing else, because it's the biggest center of humanity, and the thing that influences them the most. Humanity is important, and the Imperium is inextricably tied to humanity.

As for the Primarchs thing, it's heavily hinted that it might be the case. The Primarchs are made of more than just mortal 'stuff,' as Ferrus Manus' death showed. Chaos has stated the Emperor took from them the knowledge needed to make them (which might be a lie. It is Chaos.), and it was Chaos that cast them away to live on worlds that seemed they seemed to be in contact with in some way.

>>19867054
I was going to say that, what with the numbers spike in the Horus Heresy, the Traitor Legions are far and above 5,000. But when the fuck did the Red Corsairs get to be a hundred k?

>> No.19867286

>>19867146
I think part of the problem is that you're trying to understand the Chaos gods, while I prefer to assume they are somewhat unknowable, and most of what we know about them is probably partially wrong. How much are the Gods influenced by their followers, and how much is the reverse true? Anyway, I prefer to keep the mortal servants separate from the Gods, mostly because I think that the servants are having a rather big and extremely cruel joke played upon them. The biggest part of which is that the Gods seem to change men subtly into mockeries of their former selves, without the victims notice.

Anyway, I've got to go, but thank you for the interesting discussion!

>> No.19867721

>>19867146
>But when the fuck did the Red Corsairs get to be a hundred k?
Looking at the dates, it seems possible.
According to IA, Huron started expanding his armies before the war began (c. 900.M41) and raised an extra 1000 Marines.
By the time "major hostilities" began (I assume this means the year 906-908.M41, marked by the arrival of more loyalist Marines), Huron had about 3000 marines.
So it is possible that it only takes about a decade to raise a chapter's worth of marines. Going with 8 years as a standard time for this, Huron's been on the run for 88 years and assuming he's been building troops constantly, that's 11,000 recruits not counting renegades from other sources who might have joined them, so he might be a little shy of 20,000 marines which should be a bout the size of Thousand Sons.

>> No.19867830

>>19858999
>>19858844
>>19858701
>>19858429
>>19858143
The cabal in the Horus heresy told that the only way to defeat chaos was for Horus to win. he would win then the whole human race would be consumed in chaos, then horus would resent himself for what he did and somehow destroy all human life consuming chaos with it.
was in the book
easier to read for yourself than to explain
inb4: NOT CANON!

>> No.19867879

Also emperors children and alpha legion all the way.

>> No.19868204

>>19867721

Except that Huron's Legion's peak is said to be in during the Badab War. As the Red Corsairs, they never reached the same levels of strength and numbers.

So if 3000 is the peak, a hundred thousand is out of the question.

>> No.19868307

>>19867721
You have to remember though that when the Astral Claws were still loyal and expanding their numbers so quickly they pretty much governed the whole Badab sector, as well as pretty much absorbing the entire Tigers Claws chapter. While Huron still seems to be super busy growing his forces since going traitor, I doubt the Red Corsairs would be able to keep the same growth and recruitment rate they had when they were loyalists.

>> No.19868517

>>19867830
The ending to Legion alone is too open ended to definitively say that the Alpha Legion is/was loyalist or traitor. The other HH stuff written since then (Deliverance lost and two short stories) with the Alpha Legion doesn't really support the secret loyalist fanwank either. There seems to be some friction and scheming now between Alpharius and Omegon, but as always the motives and goals behind it are unclear.

>> No.19868532

>>19868204
no the newest fluff states the corsairs are NOW legion sized as in after the badab war.

>> No.19868798

>>19868204
The whole "rivaling a Legion" comes from Blood Reaver and it's been a while since I read it, but IIRC the Night Lords were impressed by the sheer size of his force.

>>19868307
True.

>> No.19871056

Okay, guys. 13 Black Crusades. I want to read up on the fluff. Major battles, players involved, what Abaddons "true" aims were, etc.

What fluff do I need to read?

>> No.19871975

No contest.
Iron warriors come second though

>> No.19872076

Huh, it's a bit weird seeing people mentioning Night Lords. I don't think many people cared about them before ADB wrote the books and short stories.

>> No.19875014

>> No.19875022

>> No.19875028

>> No.19875033

>> No.19875037

>> No.19875040

>> No.19875043

>> No.19875050

>> No.19875053

>> No.19875061

>> No.19875066

>> No.19875075

>> No.19875080

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e4bbLXCIRlY

>> No.19875087

>> No.19875091

>> No.19875100

>> No.19875110

>> No.19875114

>> No.19875129

>> No.19875137

And that's all I got. Probably.

>> No.19875188

Definately Night Lords.

Since they're not into that whole cliché "demons and daddy nev-Emperor never loved mee-hee" -crap.

They make all the other traitor legions look like braindead preachy morons.

I'd like them more if they had other motives than robbing shit for personal gain.

Would be cool if they emulated their dark father and became a legion of justice-dispensing batmen.

A LEGION OF VHAILORS

>> No.19875331

>>19875188

I find it most amusing how they used brutal force, terror/fear and other similar means to pacify the newly birthed Imperium and got exiled, in a way, for it when the modern Imperium finds that as the only way to keep its worlds in check.

>> No.19875360

>>19875188

Not that impressed with the Night Lords, while some of the named characters are trying to steer the rest of their legion away from it, there is still a problem of most of them being far to busy with being scary
sadists to actually care about winning.

Of course that is a overall problem with Chaos in general so i guess the Night Lords gets points for having at least some people aware of the problem.

>> No.19875484

Thousand Sons, followed in the distance by Word Bearers.

>> No.19875627

>>19875188

Except Rubric Marines are the closest to achieving Vhailor-hood.

>> No.19875705

It's tough to choose, I'm torn between 1k sons, Iron warriors and Emperors children.

>> No.19875725

>>19860084

With Sisters of Silence helping him along the way and all that.

>> No.19875853

>>19875705

What do you like about the Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children?

>> No.19875891

>>19875853
Well, I like the idea of ruthlessly efficient siege specialists, laying waste to massive cities and conquering worlds with cold, calculating brilliance.

With the Emperor's children, it's more to do with their personalities, snide creatures reveling in every possible pleasure the universe has to offer, and then some. I also like their mockery of The Emperor, shown through their battle cry and legion name.

>> No.19875925

>>19875891

They don't fight as a Legion though, do they?

>> No.19875998

>>19875925
I don't think so, but collectively, they're still known as The Emperors Children.

>> No.19876033

>Which is your favorite Traitor Legion and why, /tg/?
Death Guard.

The Great Father Nurgle loves his children.

>> No.19876153

>>19875925

Tore themselves apart practicing hedonism, from what I can tell.

I really wondered what they obsessed on after they went and tried to turn people into drugs. Aside from being fucking noisy, though.

>> No.19876347

>>19876153
Fabius Bile got out before getting hooked on whatever they where doing, though.

>> No.19876421

>>19876347
“The Dark Gods and their slaves have nothing to offer me now, but I have far more to offer them.”

>> No.19876429

World Eaters.

>> No.19876447

>>19876421

So he is the drug dealer then not the drug addict.

Hanging around Chaos High, offering the first hit for free.

"All the cool kids are doing it."

>> No.19876449

>>19875725
The same Sisters that were dying like flies?
Leman Russ, if you recall, was seemingly immune to warp fuckery all on his own.

>> No.19876461

>>19876153
...No, Khârn the Betrayer singlehandedly shattered their legion at the same time he shattered his own.

>> No.19876528

Posting this since we're on the subject of the Emperor's Children, and it was mentioned (ages ago) earlier in the thread.

>> No.19876637

>>19876528

Do you have perhaps the one of Grendel's World? It's about the Night Lords.

>> No.19876685

>>19876528
man, the lead up to the Black Crusade was great

Damn shame about the damp squib ending and subsequent retcon, really.

>> No.19876687

>>19876637
Nope, sorry. Just more Black Legionnaires being slaughtered.

>> No.19876710

>>19876685

Can't have the plot being advanced.

>> No.19876752

Word Bearers because of daemons and shit

>> No.19876829

>>19876710
It's a setting, not a plot.
How many fucking times does this have to be said?

>> No.19876983

>>19876687

It's alright, I downloaded the IA in the meantime.

>> No.19877047

>>19867721
>>19865880
But thats basically just taking every compatible applicant and only weeding them out down to the number of geneseeds currently available. Most chapters only let the baddest motherfucker even try to become space marines. Which means that even the nicest Astartes are made up of tweenage psychopaths.

>> No.19877150

>>19876983
>the all-pervading silence, coupled with the unnatural twilight of the nuclear winter, was profoundly unsettling even for the members of the Mortifactors

>> No.19877191

>>19877150

Mortificators are an Ultramarines Chapter right? All I can remember about them is they eat human flesh. Or was it Astartes flesh?

>> No.19877244

>>19877191
The fact that it scared them is nonsensical, because their homeworld is shrouded in perpetual night.
The Mortifactors meditate before battles for guidance, and eat the flesh of their foes and drink their blood.
Then they cut off the heads of their foes and strip them to the skull as trophies.

>> No.19877262

>>19877244
lesson: Space Marine Scouts are pussies

>> No.19877277

>>19877244

Heh, I like how the Night Lords had an effect on them then.

>>
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