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19832460 No.19832460 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So, which one do you prefer, the unknown robotic horrors from the beginning of time or Pharaoh Robot Skeletor?

>> No.19832482


Pharaoh Robot Skeletor, hands down.

>> No.19832484

They're one and the same. If you want the faceless, uncaring, shambling death-machines play as or imagine it as the Silent King's legion.

If you want more personality and story, play as one of the other dynasties.

>> No.19832554

Pharaoh Robot Skeletor.

>> No.19832592

>They're one and the same. If you want the faceless, uncaring, shambling death-machines play as or imagine it as the Silent King's legion.

The Silent King is the most caring Necron of all though.

>> No.19832599
File: 198 KB, 481x1423, 1305788135136.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

To be honest i preferred the Necrons before they got their own codex.

Before then they were just these things that the Imperium saw on the edge of the map.

Occasionally whole systems would go dark too quick for even a distress signal to be sent and no one could figure out what the fuck was happening.

A ship would spit a floating mausoleum and the captain, if he had the clearance to read some of the more odd reports, would order all the windows bard, the engines shut down and every fucking thing turned off. Then they would drift by as it drifted by. He would be holding a gun, not to protect himself, that is a childish hope. It would be to go quickly should anything unexpected happen.

There were vague things the Eldar sort of remembered from a time before humanity had even thought of climbing trees, let alone thought to come back down. Where they some sort of gods? Monsters? A race malevolent and terrible? Some sort of construct? no one remembers. The Harlequins, those great clown-historians, seem to remeber something. You ask them questions on the subject and they claim ignorance, but they also stop smiling and how often does that ever happen?

The orks, long suspected by the Mechaincus to be an engineered race themselves, seemed drawn to the rumors of their positions like moths to flames. No one quite knew why and the orks couldn't explain it.

Even deamons refused to talk about them. Was it fear or disgust? And what was it behind the Gates of Vaul that scared them so?

They were good in this role. They scared the shit out of any and everything ever. They were the ultimate 'shit got real yesterday, shit got soul-crushing today'.

Now they are just a bunch of bickering old men in chrome and it saddens me that this is a step up from their most recent previous incarnation.

>> No.19832624

You sir, just gave me goose bumps and an erection.

>> No.19832630

Unthinking robot zombies serving elder gods from beyond space and time. Haters gonna hate.

I understand that others may disagree, though, and are entitled to their own opinions, or to like the new fluff if that's their thing.

>> No.19832693

Necrons seemed really cool to me before the update, now they're just blatantly tomb kings in space.

>> No.19832696

unknown robotic horrors from the beginning of time

I wouldn't hate the new fluff so much if they hadn't retcon it in with a rusty corn husker, they should have left the C'tan as God of material universe and the newcrons as servant of the C'tan who got eaten allowing for sillyness.

>> No.19832703
File: 368 KB, 337x1325, Herald_of_the_Storm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I like the Newcrons overall, but would have preferred them to expand on the Oldcrons rather than rewriting them so drastically.

>> No.19832738

I would assassinate Ward with a spoon and go to the chair with a smile on my face if it meant you'd get his job.

>> No.19832740

They were always Tomb Knigs in space, just with no personalities.

>> No.19832772

Newcrons are the superior Crons in my opinion. There's always the Severed for the deadly toaster enthusiasts.

>> No.19832795

Newcrons, since there's less jerking off to "lol Ctan did everything lol"

>> No.19832801

I will take Skeletor over personality-free generic murderbots and their shitty, shoehorned-in elder god masters any day

>> No.19832816
File: 28 KB, 424x193, 25266.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>herp de derp no personality
Some higher-ranking Necrons retained their minds, but no one seemed to pick up on this.

>> No.19832850

I want my insane/reawakening and malfunctioning Necrontyr Necrons who had their link to the C'tan severed by someone, and didn't do well for it.

That way the 13 year olds can play "lol he has a monocle and he collects alien pogs" but it remains a fringe aspect of the faction, instead of now where it's the bulk.

>> No.19832852
File: 1.81 MB, 267x180, Umbrella_dinosaur.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

That fluff text:
> With eyes that had been lifeless crystals for sixty million years

That would roughly be when dinosaurs were on earth and I remember some rough rumors about the Old Ones being terran dinosaurs. Was that bullshit or is there some merit to those theories?

>> No.19832858


Holy fuck Anon. I just picked up newcrons and was pretty happy with the retcon. Now I just want to make severed world crons and play this.

>> No.19832901

I never felt like it oldcrons made much sense anyway as they were. They needed an update and they could have gone one of two directions:

1. Make them more unknowable, focus more on the Lovecraftian horror element.
2. Give them some personality so that we can put a face on them, even if it is a scary face.

In the 40kverse it's hard to take anything seriously in the first place, so they were better off going the slightly sillier route.

>> No.19832919

As much as I preferred the previous Necrons, can anyone else think of where they could have taken the new Codex without a huge change like this?

>> No.19832926

That is a great antagonist on thing lurking in the background, but as a playable faction? Doesn't work all that well. I would have liked them to be more in-between. Cut back on the blatant Egyptian stuff (though keep influences like having scarabs), the cartoon villain silliness (also stuff like using pilots for vehicles) while having some necrons ruled by independent lords who are more like the newcrons and others under the c'tan who are more like this post and oldcrons.

>> No.19832956

There was some vague notion that the dinosaurs were wiped out when Earth took an accidental shot during some old war at the dawn of time and this is responsible for that particular mass-extinction.

The Old Ones were not dinosaurs. They were traveling the stars long before dinosaurs were a thing.

>> No.19832987

>That is a great antagonist on thing lurking in the background, but as a playable faction?

I would never have had them as a playable faction.

IF you want Tomb Kings IN SPAAAAAAAACE I would have suggested using a fringe faction of the Eldar.

>> No.19832999
File: 67 KB, 600x970, Hammer-and-Anvil.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Anyone read this?

I wasn't really digging the newcrons, but this reay sold them to me.

>> No.19833024

The vehicles really irked me. It was like a piece of Newcron shit wedged in Oldcron fluff. Fucking levitating centaur buggies? It's just so awful.

You can justify individualism in the fluff without going full retard and turning them into Thrall wannabes written by weeaboos.

>> No.19833030

The basic view of them is a race of desperate creatures who found a way to escape their pathetic lives in necrodermis bodies, only to find out too late that the C'tan screwed them over.

Really, they could've been made into ANY kind of xenos empire, but they went with Tomb Kings in space because that's easier than thinking.

>> No.19833039

Sorry to barge in uninvited. I will not take long.

Curiosity is killing me, you see.

>unknown robotic horrors
>Pharaoh Robot Skeletor

Can you not have both? Is there something in the new Necron Background that nullifies the old incarnation of the Necrons?

>> No.19833076

It's sort of like saying "The Eldar are now Crusty Jugglers from Mars and their motivations are split between stealing the Emperor's Trix cereal and finding the secret behind Cinnamon Toast Crunch... oh and all the Craftworld Eldar that you're used to are just rare aberrations from the norm so you can still play them".

It's cool and all but still the new fluff is ultragay.

>> No.19833115

Newcrons are much more swag. Oldcrons were shitty and boring.

>> No.19833130

So why exactly did they have to transform Necrotyr into Necrons?

I mean what part of them was used in the construction of the robot bodies?

>> No.19833139

ward in shit fluff non-shocker

>> No.19833150


Their minds.

The bodies were taken by the C'tan while the souls were feasted upon by warpspawn.

>> No.19833153

I'd like a book to be written about them, call it Pariah. It's about a young null/blank/whatever who's viciously treated but somehow survives his youth, and gets scouted by the inquisition. He gets trained as a culexus and spends some time raping sorcerers and eating daemons, but he gets deployed against the Necrons, who are a new foe on the scene, to counter any possible warp-sorcery they might use. Silly inquisition.

The last few chapters are about how the Imperials get taken apart, and he's running for his life while Necrons stalk him at the edge of his sensors. Finally, run down and empty of weapons that did nothing against them anyways, he falls to the ground and tries to commit suicide, but is stopped by the Necron Lord.

He wakes up in the Necron tomb, where he is processed into a Necron Pariah. Reminiscent of that scene in quake 4 where you get turned into a Strogg, but less buzzsaws and more liquid metal.

Last bit is him waking up as a Necron and slaughtering the vermin that have encroached on his Lord's domain, but always been pestered by a tiny voice in the back of his head that this is wrong. Before a system update wipes it out.

>> No.19833156

Oh I see.

Thanks for the answer.

>> No.19833167


I think the trouble is that if some of them are not unknowable and horrifying, then it makes any that try to remain so seem silly in comparison.

>> No.19833169

Far as I can tell, their minds were moved into new bodies but their souls were claimed by the C'tan

>> No.19833190

>tfw dating a crazy dominant chick with a MC/hypno fetish and those last sentences would have ruined her panties

..Other than that, I like it!

>> No.19833201
File: 813 KB, 720x871, 1318104302586.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


The feel of them is gone.

Before they were some sort of faceless horror that left worlds barren when one of their vessels passed too close.

They were as uncaring as gravity and as stoppable as the tide. No matter how big your empire, no matter how grand your armies or impressive you technology when one of these started to drift across your borders you ordered everyone to back the fuck away and let it drift by because it would annihilate anything that got too close up to and including planets. And may the gods avert their eyes from you end should you actually wake them up.

What were they? Old. Possibly metallic. Or where those metallic things just hand puppets for something far more malevolent and godlike.

The greatest Ork WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!s, of the monumental sort they only seemed to organize when these horrors rolled by, could slow them down for a while and maybe divert their course a little.

Now we know hat they are. They are a bunch of senile old men lamenting their past glories and complaining about next-doors children on their lawn.

Now they let White Scar captains and Eldar rangers go in the name of fair play. The Firtscrons knew as much about fair play as the event horizon of a black hole.

Now they team up with Blood Angels to kill Tyranids where one they would eiter have ignored them for the insects that they were or murdered the lot of them because cold-blooded death emanates from them like radiation from uranium.

Now they write snarky letters to Inquisitors where the Oncoming Storm knew nothing of something as petty as ego.

>> No.19833206

I don't mind the background stories and everything, but before Necrons were an uncaring, menacing force that followed their silent orders. Now you have Necron lords feasting their enemies like Bond villains, giving their stuff to everyone (doomsday arks to Orks, labyrinths to Grey Knights, etc.) and their tech guys going all mad scientist. For SCIENCE!

I don't mind the expanded background, but I would have liked them to remain enigmatic and more faceless. I just like my machines more like SkyNet than Agent Smith. You never meet SkyNet, you don't know what it is thinking, and its minions are very determined on their goal, not feeling or explaining anything as they complete their missions. Agent Smith was all too happy to dine with you and tell you how weak and pitiful creature humans are.

>> No.19833221

I would kill for a Necron book. It's a shame my favorite xenos (Dark Eldar) got such a shitty one.

>> No.19833255


This thread has made me appreciate oldcrons far more, but I still love me some Trazyn.

>> No.19833281

I prefer the senile old men necrons to the robot tyranids necrons.

It doesn't really matter though, since no one is stopping you from modeling or playing your army the way you want.

>> No.19833314
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Newcrons, Oldandbustedcrons couldn't even comprehend this level of swag.

>> No.19833318

Are the newcrons personalities really that wacky? I have the old codex but I haven't really been involved with 40k that much for a while.

>> No.19833338
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>getting out-swagged by the Eldar in your own book
Just look at those stylish motherfuckers

Pose as a team, shit just got real.

>> No.19833341
File: 163 KB, 817x706, immortals speech.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The wackiest.

>> No.19833355

They are pretty wacky in 40k, were most other characters are 'TOUGH WARRIOR MAN' or 'RELATE TO THIS CHARACTER.'

>> No.19833374


Well, theres one whos a genius general, but his mind was screwed from the long sleep. He's delusional and believes all other factions are secessionists who need to be reigned in.

The only thing keeping him around is his loyal bodyguard. Anyone who tries to assasinate his lord either dissapear or are challenged to open combat and made a public example of.

>> No.19833379

It would have been nice if their vehicles weren't designed to be operated by pilots. Like the Monolith.

I know the fluff gives the excuse that the lords like to think they're alive and the crew is just to play to this fantasy (which reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVEOxSN8ILc), but that makes it even more retarded. Those vehicles have exposed crew, which in fleshy form would be even more vulnerable to enemy fire.

>> No.19833389


They vary

Imotekh comes off as super serious and seems to only care about conquering stuff

Trazyn is pretty wacky and mostly cares about collecting rare historical artifacts

Anrakyr is some kind of wandering hero

Zahndrekh is a senile old man who thinks he's still living in the past

Szeras is all about SCIENCE

>> No.19833393
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There is one who is Creed with a bigger ego and arrogance that would make Khorne look humble.

There is one who lives in a pocket universe that looks like the drains of every slaughterhouse and Dark Eldar cellar drain into it. It is where the flayed ones call 'BZZZZZZZZZZZZKKKKKKkkkkkkkkeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssjrsdssssskkkakakakakakkkaaak' which probably translates into home. Here they keep the skins they steal and here is where they have banquets of the corpses. Or try to.

There is one who obsessively collects historical artifacts. All of them, from everywhere.

There is one of them who thinks he is Robin Hood.

There is one who kidnaps people and loans out his services for fresh subjects to experiment on to try and reverse the biotransferance.

These are just the ones I can remember off of the top of my head. There may be more.

>> No.19833395


Hey. Hey, here's an idea.

They still have models, but still aren't a playable faction.

They're an endgame. If the game "ends," on a roll of a 6 (Or . Can't remember if high or low = game over), the Necrons awaken.

Each, a number of Necrons equal to (a number of 2d6 equal to the turn number) awaken and burrow out from beneath the earth. If the # rolled is >10, you get 10 Warriors and the remainder are Immortals. If >20, you get 10 warriors, 10 immortals, and 10 flayed ones. If >30, you get warriors, immortals, flayed ones, and wraiths. >40 adds Spyders, >50 adds a single Monolith (Regardless of how many is extra), and each additional 10 beyond 50 gives another monolith.

Each unit deepstrikes 4d6" from the center of the map, and follows a simple flowchart-style diagram ("1) If enemy is within range, fire on them. If not, or if unit is Flayed ones, advance to 2) kinda thing). At that point, each player has the option at the end of each of their turns to either continue playing, with Necrons counting as enemy units for the purpose of KP or objectives, or retreat from the field. Necrons take their turn after all the players have, operating under the directions of the flowchart. If the Necrons ever have the highest # of KP of all the players, or if they control the majority (or 2/3?) of the objectives, the Necrons win and both players lose. Otherwise, after the last player has retreated, the Necrons take their last turn and then the victor is assessed.

It'd make the game last longer (Ugh), but add a fucking terrifying possible scenario (Fluff-wise) and a really, really sticky situation on the tabletop should it occur.

>> No.19833404

Robot Skeletor, I love homebrewing and necrons have replaced orkz and Space Marines in my homebrewing wet dreams.

>> No.19833425
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>> No.19833452


I know they're meant to be crowns or tiaras or something, but whenever I see the headdresses on the new Necrons I can't help but think they're wearing their underpants on their heads. The driver in the background of that picture has it especially bad.

>> No.19833486

Imotekh WOULD come off as serious if he didn't have dialogue where he talks like Dr. Evil.

I don't understand why the same guys who were up in arms about the C'tan sounding like Bond villains are okay with this shit.

>> No.19833506

Imotekh is just a dude, not some ANCIENT EVIIIL.

>> No.19833520
File: 10 KB, 397x264, Newcrons.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.19833528

Oldcron fluff, MOST of the Newcron units 'cept Ultramarine Ark. Dat Triarch Stalker.
But 6th rolled around and they became Grey Knights 2.0, so my 'Crons got dropped for my Nids.

>> No.19833572

He's pretty ancient and evil. I mean, he predates the Imperium. In fact, he predates mankind.

That is more than ancient.

>> No.19833594
File: 1.35 MB, 1239x1735, Outsider 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Postan some fluff, because I can.

>> No.19833598

I hate all the newer units. They look goofy as fuck. Aside from the Wraiths, I don't think there's a single new unit that I would allow in my army. They're all so fucking ugly.

>> No.19833604

Double standards are rife in the 40k community.

For instance, gods are not allowed but Royalty and lawkeepers with a higher authority than their phaerons is okay? I don't mind Szeras, but it's still one step too far into the dirt for my liking. I felt like ripping out the pages of my Necron codex that goes into depth of the fluff, sendng them in the mail to 'Ward, with a note explicitly asking him to explain himself. I know he's not a great storyteller, but if thats the case they should pay someone else to write those sections.

>> No.19833612
File: 1.38 MB, 1325x1728, Outsider 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.19833633

Yes, he is actually ancient and kind of evil, but not the archetypal kind.

Him showing up and talking smack would be like a Chaos Lord doing so. Fine.
The Deceiver doing that kind of shit would be like if Slaanesh himself turned up to talk trash.

>> No.19833655

What's there to explain?

>> No.19833663

"The difference is that I know I'm right."

>> No.19833703


Didn't all of the remaining C'Tan devour other C'Tan? Why was only the Outsider driven mad?

>> No.19833712

Cegorach trolling him.

>> No.19833717

It's not really the same as a Chaos Lord. They're human. They're erratic. They have personal history with most of those they talk smack to.

Necrons aren't human. They are more ancient than the Eldar, and less relatable, and yet you NEVER see Eldar talking like Imotekh does. For a threat that was introduced as a terrible, uknowable horror passing like death itself through the void of space, this is a MASSIVE step down. These guys used to be the fucking boogeymen that everyone - absolutely everyone - was terrified of, not simply because they were advanced but because they couldn't be reasoned with or bartered with or even really understood. Now they mostly act like Egyptian Megatron.

>> No.19833729

OP, your question is stupid as the new rules and lore allow you to do either one at your leisure.

>> No.19833747

How is not being "Tyranids but robots" anymore a step down?

>> No.19833766

To expand on this - the Necron codex should not have given up a history. It should have been myths. Strange reports. Implications and half-truths. It should have hinted at things so terrible that no light could ever be shone upon them.

Why not? Why couldn't this be done? Shit, nobody knows where the Tyranids come from, really, and you don't see dudes complaining about that.

Necrons would have been WAY better had their codex never revealed their story, but rather detailed what happens when they appear now.

>> No.19833781

Guilt or the Outsider didn't devour them properly.

The real question is why was the Outsider trying to devour a WARP GOD!

>> No.19833803

A big tasty soul.

>> No.19833830

>Necrons would have been WAY better had their codex never revealed their story
Because the Daemonhunter codex was so much better due to not actually presenting any information on the army in question, and pulling from Black Library novels the rest of the time?
Look, I think that a person who is playing an army has the right to know the ins and outs of the group they have taken a shine to. If the game's armies were Imperium only and the xenos merely enigmatic foes, you'd have leg to stand on. No one should have to sit and wonder about the details of the force they plunked down good money to field.
Your example only works if 40k consisted of fluff alone, rather than a interactive wargame medium.

>> No.19833833

Trying to nom war-stuff was probably what pushed him over the edge.

Why was he trying to eat warp-stuff in the first place?

We said he started out sane. We never said he was all that bright.

>> No.19833836

It's a step down because it makes what were the most terrifying things in the entire lore into a bunch of walking jokes. Necrons are fluffy robot uncles now.

These guys were once the shit Chaos Marines left alone because it freaked them out. They were something that Hive Fleets took the long way round because something about them was so innately wrong that it frightened even their gestalt mind.

The old codex was shit too, but this recent crap is no better. None of these new lords actually have any real personality, after all - Ward's writing simply can't convey that. And the general feel of the army is "haha robot skeletor how funny" + every other dying empire in the setting. I mean, goddamn, did we really need ANOTHER once great and noble but now fallen empire? We have plenty of those.

The Newcrons might as well just be Eldar.

>> No.19833858

>It's not really the same as a Chaos Lord.

It is. You want them to be something that they aren't, and that's fine. But surely you can see the difference in a general talking shit and a god talking shit, right? Step up or step down, that's basically the difference.

>> No.19833910

The biggest problem with the oldcron fluff was that it didn't and it couldn't work for a playable faction.

The Ctan were supposed to be something similar to Cacodominus or Ghoul Star not something you can bring on the table to be killed by stray melta shot.

As a faction the Newcrons are million times better. Besides what they did with the Ctan was already retarded beyond belief even before Ward rolled out his vision. They were not unknowable Lovecraftian horrors, they were badly written Cosmic Marvel super villains.

>> No.19833911

Problem is, Necrons were originally designed as enigmatic horrors. That was what they were. Their identity - the thing that made them actually interesting - was that nobody knew what they were, just that they should be very afraid of them.

This is why both the codices are so awful. They tried to fill in blanks that were left there purposefully.

And, by the by, I'd be totally up for fielding an army of mysterious horrors whose backstory is primarily rumour and myth. That is after all what made people interested into the concept of Necrons in the first place.

>> No.19833919


Perhaps the C'Tan didn't know at that point what effect the Warp had on them?

>> No.19833941

>You want them to be something that they aren't

Correction, something they aren't ANYMORE. Because GW is determined to shit on everything it has actually done right. Characters like Imotekh should never have been even considered, because they the complete opposite of what Necrons were designed as.

>> No.19833956

> the unknown robotic horrors from the beginning of time
>Pharaoh Robot Skeletor
>pick one

Don't make me choose, Anon! I love them both!

>> No.19833964

How couldn't they? By that point the Eldar and Old Ones were hammering them with it.

So he is the Elmer Fudd of the C'tan?

''Be vewy vewy quite, I am hunting Wap Creatures''

>> No.19833974
File: 34 KB, 420x641, 0112.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Oh yeah, the Oldcrons were simply terrifying.

>> No.19833976
File: 47 KB, 839x290, c'tan-food.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

The Eldar gods had physical forms back then, right? Presumably Tsara'noga was hungry for Cegorach's body and its delicious energy.

>> No.19833979

It used to be because of the amount that he had devoured. The Outsider devoured a large portion of the C'tan at least 40% or something big like that. It was implied that the devoured C'tan's mind lives on in the host and that having so many of them in him is what drove him mad.

>> No.19833981

>Necrons were originally designed as enigmatic horrors
Not only did they never achieve that in the first place, the more that was done with them, the worse it got.
The Deceiver having conversations with people, the not named C'tan that got punked down by a mook with a melta bomb, the stories featuring misshapen necrons being used for target practice, all of these things essentially sunk them.
That they were derivative in the extreme and somehow were responsible for almost everything that happened in the setting didn't help. They needed a retcon, and the one they got allows for creativity from the player.

>> No.19833994

That is a notoriously inaccurate story. They would have phased out long before.

>> No.19833996

>Not only did they never achieve that in the first place, the more that was done with them, the worse it got.
uh, Necrons did exist before 3rd edition, you know.

Which is what that anon was talking about.

>> No.19833997

If Ctan fluff was so good was so good then how come the SC2 plot is so bad? It is done by the guy who invented the Ctan and it even has a Ctan in it and to be frank it is one of the most generic, boring and idiotic villains of all time.

>> No.19834025

Not always, there are Necron bits of trophy racks and certain things can disrupt the signal.

>> No.19834032

Before that they were just mysterious raiders and nothing more.

>> No.19834038
File: 458 KB, 1771x1480, 1318103384796.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>I mean, goddamn, did we really need ANOTHER once great and noble but now fallen empire? We have plenty of those.

This. So much this.

They should be very much at the height of their power.

Then why do they not do all that much subjugating and other shit? Because they have already done it a thousand times before.

They have already done everything before. Can you imagine something? Anything no matter how insane, inane, brilliant, petty, awesome, beautiful, horrific. They have done that as well. Don't care exactly what you were thinking. It doesn't matter. They have done it. Multiple times.

They have done everything. In every variation and combination.

So they sleep, because only nothing is left to do.

They are still at the height of their power. We do not notice them because its a big galaxy and any assholes who encounter them are never heard from again.

We never grab their attention because we are the ants that scurry across their lawn. Eye of Terror? How quaint. We built one of those once. Only on not such a meager scale, then we dismantled it because it looked untidy. Tyranids? We were here the 1st, 2nd and 7,632nd time they cycled through this galaxy. We we just as unimpressed the first time as we are now. Orks? You still have them? Eldar as well? They were mildly entertaining for a time.

The Cadian Pylons and Lyrixia and such things are toys left over from their infancy or things made by latter and now extinct cultures aping their betters.

But you never outright claim this or state it or write it down. You hint at it subtly with half-truths, contradicting creation myths and cautionary tales.


>> No.19834041

Not to forget that the Imperium has captured Necron tech for study.

Their stuff can be damaged so that the phasing out does not happen.

>> No.19834052

It seems that neither of you have the ability to read.

Show me a part of one of the posts you're arguing with that states the C'tan or the older codex were good? You can't. In fact, you should find that they condemn both codices as shit.

Jesus Christ were none of you guys around before 4th Edition?

>> No.19834057



>> No.19834058

Which is the point i think a few people are trying to make. They never should have been expanded upon. Just kept them as one of the 'other races with inhabit the universe of 40k'

>> No.19834060

which was his fucking point

>> No.19834068
File: 78 KB, 625x625, inigo1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.19834081

And again, then what?
Here is this new faction, we will do nothing with them to keep them "mysterious"?
That works in a book, not in a setting where people are expected to invest themselves into a group.

>> No.19834102

>They're so great
>They've done everything better than everyone else
>They're just sleeping because they're bored but they could totally beat everyone else easily

Mary sues.

>> No.19834121
File: 89 KB, 200x138, I was warned.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

You said it pretty straight that GW shat upon everything that was good about Necrons.

You can't just turn around and throw "GW was never good" after this >>19833941

Or well, you can, actually you just did. It kinda makes you retarded though.

>> No.19834161

But we are discussing them within the setting. Not within the business world. It is oblivious why GW makes some of the decisions it makes.

Letting such a race be played will always ruin them because of that very reason. It is boring the be them. They have no personalty. So of course you have to expand on them.
But from a fluff stand point only, they should have been left alone.

>> No.19834162

Oh look, you're still unable to read.

>Because GW is determined to shit on everything it has actually done right.

Implies that GW has done stuff right, and is now shitting on it. Oh shit son, it appears you are a moron with no argument.

Besides, I'm talking about stuff that came BEFORE the first codex they made. Yes, there were Necrons before that. Yes, they were better then.

>> No.19834165

Horrific things that have gradually lost all that made them people to the point that they are more of a natural force.

Sort of like murder if murder was gravity.

Unthinking things that are now more like the Wolf Machines/Inhibitors/Grub Eaters from the Revelation Space trilogy than any life they might have once have resembled. They have wiped out whole civilizations, cultures and species because they could and because it amused them to watch others suffer.

Or possibly not. Do they kill because they will it or do they kill because they are.

>> No.19834191

>Yes, there were Necrons before that. Yes, they were better then

No they weren't. THEY MYSTERIOUS YO, isn't at all good.

>> No.19834192

Wow you cannot into horror can you?

Or just writing in general, it seems.

>> No.19834203

>Lovecraftian horror
>mary sue
Get the fuck OUT.

>> No.19834228

It is a great deal better than what we have now.

James Bond villain star gods and derpy Megatron cyber-granddads. For fucks' sake, there was a time when GW actually tried to at least make its fluff a bit atmospheric and interesting. Necrons - both the C'tancrons and the Newcons - belong in an episode of Mighty Max.

Probably one of the fun, wacky early ones, before it got all dark and serious.

>> No.19834254

It isn't horror though, it 'look at how much I can wank a skeleton robot.'

Here's my idea for a race, they're called the super-gokus, with their Kamehameheat vision they can destroy whole galaxies and even the necrons are scared of them because they are so mysterious and powerful.

>> No.19834266

Unlike him, you fucking suck at writing.

>> No.19834287

I'm planning to build a battlefield that is necrontyr ruins, what did the necrontyr look like I'm planning to make a couple statues of royalty.

>> No.19834297

They looked like gaunt, gangly Tau.

>> No.19834304

I preferred the pre-C'tan Necrons too.
The though of a silent army marching forward destroying everything so completely that it may as well have never been there in the first place is a fantastically terrifying prospect. This vast army of ghostly spectres that can't be reasoned with, phasing in and out of existence as they stride across the city. Las and autocannon fire tearing swathes through one of them but unseen hands seem to quickly piece it back together. The other undying monstrosities around it carry on unphased by the incoming weapons fire. Until the last of the defenders is vanquished and the city is silent except for the metallic clank of robotic feet in the concrete and the other worldy shriek from their weapons as they begin deconstructing the city. Soon nothing is left of the city or its occupants. No craters or evidence of a battle. A ship arrives to answer a distress signal from the city but finds nothing. It is as if the city never existed in the first place.

>> No.19834306

Why argue with Newcron fans?

By necessity they are the kind of people who think zany-for-the-sake-of-zany is funny. They have introjected their forced laughter at "HAHA SPACE TERMINATORS DONT WEAR PIMP COATS AND TOPHATS IT'S SO SILLY XD!!!!!!" so successfully that it has become real laughter. They are beyond all hope. They cannot be redeemed. They are the exact same people who laugh at rapping grannies.

>"[intentionally retarded and cartoonish but nevertheless unstoppable enemy] isn't menacing, therefore no 'hopelessly outmatched' scenario is ever menacing"


>> No.19834308

they looked like giant metal skeletons with silly hats

>> No.19834332

Many people like it when things are kept enigmatic. That's why everyone gets angry when the Joker is given a canon origin story and why Zaros is the most popular Runescape god.

>> No.19834350

And why people liked Grey Knights before the new codex.

>> No.19834358

>The great modern fantasies were written out of religious, philosophical and psychological landscapes. They were sermons. They were metaphors. They were rhetoric. They were books, which means that the one thing they actually weren’t was countries with people in them. The commercial fantasy that has replaced them is often based on a mistaken attempt to literalise someone else’s metaphor, or realise someone else’s rhetorical imagery. For instance, the moment you begin to ask (or rather to answer) questions like, 'Yes, but what did Sauron look like?'; or, 'Just how might an Orc regiment organise itself?'; the moment you concern yourself with the economic geography of pseudo-feudal societies, with the real way to use swords, with the politics of courts, you have diluted the poetic power of Tolkien’s images. You have brought them under control. You have tamed, colonised and put your own cultural mark on them.


>But I can't build a TA Rhun-heavy Mordor army unless I know the exact nature of Sauron and everything about Mordor and the political structure of Rhun!!

>> No.19834369

I can see you cannot quite comprehend just how POWERFUL and MYSTERIOUS the super-gokus actually are. You see no one knows what they even call themselves, the term super-gokus is derived from ancient eldar language and means "they who are the most mysterious and powerful." In one ancient myth Khaine challenged a super-goku to battle but ended up loosing and eating 'the bitterest pineapple' (which is belived by imperial scholars to be his own asshole).

>> No.19834377
File: 508 KB, 2156x2878, 113_004.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

They probably looked like ugly vampire ghoul things. Or like H.P. Lovecraft

>> No.19834382

Grey Knights were cooler before "Demonhunters" came out.

it was just a slippery slope from there on

>> No.19834385

I thought I was the only one! I like the new Necron fluff and all but I wish there was some hints and suggestions that some legions were being ruled by hybrdized c'tans or some shit.

I guess I like their concept too much to accept their poke fate.

>> No.19834406

>>19834382 Grey Knights were cooler before "Demonhunters" came out.

Grey Knights were pretty much the same since 2nd edition.

>> No.19834409

They were reptiles however.

>> No.19834420

pretty much, but they were less well known and (seemed) significantly more "elite".

>> No.19834421
File: 151 KB, 383x788, slann0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Batracians, actually.

>> No.19834431

I don't remember them having an army back then.

They were just random robo raiders.

>> No.19834442

>Grey Knights were cooler before "Demonhunters" came out.

This also.

Before that all anyone knew was that they wore what looked like modified silver power armour covered in warp disrupting runes that were painful and sanity damaging to look at. Also they radiated psychic fire like a god-damn lighthouse. Also Titan was off limits to everyone but them.

For all anyone knew they might not have actually been Astartes under that suit.

>> No.19834446 [DELETED] 

I was thinking of using the Deceiver as a base, but with a more sickly physique, what do you think they wore?

>> No.19834458

I was thinking of using the Deceiver as a base, but with a more sickly physique, what do you think they wore?

>> No.19834478

Welcome to my LGS. Fedoras, forced laughter, and memes.
"We're only playing the game ironically" pretty much sums up the mentality, as cliched as it is.

>> No.19834482 [DELETED] 

Probably stuff like Zahndrekh and Anrakyr.

>> No.19834492

Probably stuff like Zahndrekh and Anrakyr.

>> No.19834499

I don't think the other end of the spectrum is any better.

Overweight and severely underweight guys with bad hygiene listening to metal and arguing about Emphras power level.

>> No.19834502

Pharaoh Robot Skeletor plz

>> No.19834506


>> No.19834512

Metal clothing may look bitching but must be uncomfortable as hell to wear

>> No.19834523

But THE METAL LIVES. That shit would be comfy.

>> No.19834527

Anything good about how the oldcrons were was thrown out with the last codex. That's why I prefer the newcrons, because while the old old concept was more interesting, it was done so fucking terribly that the majority of people are relieved that they just made them tomb kings in space.

>> No.19834536

Is that an actual pre soul forge Necron? (Cant spell their names for shit)

>> No.19834539

somewhere in the middle

for example there are (i guess) bitter fun-hating dicks on /tg/ who think all "board culture" is stupid, and there are guys who screenshot every single fucking thread or funny post, even ones that are references to previous posts with screenshots of their own floating around

there are a lot more of the latter though, just like there are a lot more redditfags who think wacky humour is instantly successful. same people who like dane cook and MLP.

>> No.19834561

they also wore cloth, though
and bling on top

>> No.19834576

>there are guys who screenshot every single fucking thread or funny post, even ones that are references to previous posts with screenshots of their own floating around
I hate those people. Same cunts who feel the need to tell us what their captcha was.

>> No.19834579
File: 69 KB, 400x554, druillet nosferatu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


no, but it might be an inspiration of their design. It's from Nosferatu, a comic by Philippe Druillet.

>> No.19834595

unknown robotic horrors, their hard science approach to things is a nice foil to the other fantasy based races.

>> No.19834608

>hard science


>> No.19834632

>hard science approach
Well, seeing how science was only exerted by a very enclosed elite of guys who felt the need to wear shiny robes and wield staves and called themselves "crypteks", I think that, on the contrary, they had a very superstitious and mystical approach of science.

>> No.19834633

I think he means hard science in that there's no warp magicks involved.

>> No.19834647
File: 37 KB, 1677x372, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Haters gonna hate

>etc. culdrwi

>> No.19834653

Uh, that's newcrons. The 'unknown robotic horrors' option certainly isn't the newcrons.

>> No.19834655

I play them as inscrutable, unknowable beings of a neutral alignment sort of like those hyper advanced robots at the end of A.I. but not speaking a language you understand and likely to vaporise you for reasons unbeknownst to you.

>> No.19834656


I'd have thought a bit like the Tau Ethereals, but more Middle-Eastern and not-quite-Egyptian.

I mean, the Ethereals are actually quite a bit sci-fi Middle Eastern as it is, but you know what I mean.

>> No.19834671

oldcrons were certainly no less superstitious than newcrons.

>> No.19834673

I think they have a good understanding of how their shit works. Its just they have certain honour codes and traditions to abide by.

>> No.19834686

Actually, the fluff specifies that even nobles and phaerons have no idea how their shit works, that's why crypteks are so important.

>> No.19834697

Newcrons have quite strict divide between scientists and politicians. They both try to cheat and lie to each other as much as possible so it is no wonder that the Crypteks tend to be, well, cryptic.

>> No.19834715

having a good understanding of how stuff works doesn't prevent you from being all spiritual and mystic about it. After all, necron technology is actually extremely close to what we would call magic in real life. And before the Enlightenment, there was little difference between practicing magic and science. There's no reason to assume that, just because they were advanced, the necrontyrs ever stepped away from that paradigm.

>> No.19834733

>Pharaoh Robot Skeletor?

When you say Skeletor are we talking about classic can't even dine and dash without He Man ruining his shit Skeletor, more recent actually a credible threat Skeletor, or movie Skeletor?

>> No.19834745

I like the Newcrons - they have soul.

Old Crons were just cheesefests for beards and 11 year old powerplayers who were traumatised by no longer being able to Rhino-rush with their Blood Angels.

>> No.19834752

The Crypteks are the SCIENTISTS. They were not designed to fight, they were designed to research strange shit, keep knowledge safe and guarded, and use it to improve the Necron(tyr) empire. They were basically a pan-galactic conclave of librarians and scientists.

Look at it this way. You know about atoms. You know about electricity, and cells, and all that shit. But you know extremely little compared to someone who spends their LIFE investigating and working with these things. Now, imagine the people who spend their life doing this have trillions of years of experience, can think and process information faster than us, have their brain hooked up to an encyclopedia, and can perform calculations in their heads that would make a computer shit itself.

The Necron elite know about atoms, but the Crypteks are the ones who build the Large Hadron Collider.

>> No.19834771

>New He-Man's Skeletor
>Credible threat
>Completely replaced in the last season.

Sure he wasn't as retarded as the She-Ra premier Skeletor that got smacked by He-Mans mother but still. The new Skeletor was crazy and I don't mean Joker style criminally insane.

>> No.19834947

The only change I didn't like in the new Nacaroons codex is that apparently they don't have actual FTL travel anymore, and instead just hack into the Webway or some shit. Which is dumb. Also Flayed Ones being made shitty. Is there anything in the 6th that's making them less awful?

>> No.19835009

You know how I'd like to play Necrons? Base them off Ancient China instead of Ancient Egypt; their Warriors have a sort of "terracotta army" feel to them. They'd still be a Dynasty and everything.

>> No.19835092

Funny thing is, Ahriman is closer to Skeletor than any of the Necron characters.

He's even got his own Castle Grayskull.

>> No.19835516
File: 112 KB, 900x712, 1324358473196.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I prefer the Newcrons a bit more than the old versions. Yes, some of the situations are silly or strange considering the previous fluff, but with a bit of work in terms of other fiction (say, a Necron-centered book by ADB maybe, please?) the effects of >>19832599 's post is still felt, but behind the scenes there is a massive set of power plays going on.

What I miss most from the Oldcron fluff is the notion that on some base level the AdMech reveres them as the ultimate form of life and wants so desperately to find their secrets, but are destroyed whenever they get a glimpse of the truth. I like the hordes of soulless monsters to be implacable, the Immortals to be direct and deadpan to the point of mild hilarity, and the few Necron lords and crypteks with some semblance of personality to be grandiose figures with wheels within wheels within wheels.

Although... I do also miss the Necron's ultimate goal of shutting out the warp entirely. That was at least different than the usual 'omnicidal to everyone just because' win condition.

>> No.19835534

well the thousand sons were meant to be the original tomb king's stand ins

>> No.19835553


Actually the tomb kings only got their army book after the necrons got their miniatures and WD proto-codex.
So, TS being even older than that, they can't be the tomb kings stand-ins at all.

>> No.19835570

A Necron focused book by Sandy Mitchel, just imagine it.

>> No.19835745


>> No.19835781
File: 543 KB, 826x750, 1328094208766.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I'm just imagining a Cryptek and his Pariah buddy being forced by Trayzn to scene for scene re-create the biography of Ciaphas Cain.


>> No.19835839

Cain meeting Trazyn needs to be a thing!

>> No.19836537

>How the Trazynch Stole Christmas!

>> No.19836559
File: 56 KB, 432x288, 1305597929091.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Well at least there is the possibility that some equally unskilled writer will in the future have the C'tan re-emerging repair themselves and rapecon the newcrons back to what they were before.

>> No.19836808

Although sometimes I think that the demystifying of shit fits the theme of 40k. Warhammer is all about decay, and the death of old and new things alike. It actively destroys the sacred and mysterious to make a much grimmer and darker universe. The God Emperor is just a corpse sitting on a big chair, The wise and farseeing Eldar of all stripes are just bitter, dying sociopaths who fucked themselves into oblivion, Tyranids are just hungry animals running scared, the Tau are dangerously naive, and Chaos doesn't even fucking know what it wants. The only race not trying to mask their shallow and callous motivations as some higher calling are the Orks, but they just don't give a fuck anyway.

So in a universe where Gods are dead, insane, and useless, where any real higher calling is pointless at best and self-destructive at worst, why would Necrons be any different? Sure there's something to be said for being one of a kind, but the Newcrons fit the theme.

They aren't, mostly, silent abominations with inscrutable goals, they're the same stupid, short-sighted, easily deceived violent assholes everyone else is. I think it fits 40k perfectly.

>> No.19836841

>The only race not trying to mask their shallow and callous motivations as some higher calling are the Orks, but they just don't give a fuck anyway.

Another reason da Boyz are the best thing in 40k.

>> No.19836867

Well, they already were like that before getting Warded. There was no need to make them even sillier than they were.

>> No.19836940

why do all the races have so much trouble being honest with themselves?

>> No.19836968

Self examination is a lot harder than picking up the nearest murder device and using it on your fellow sentients.

>> No.19836985

it's also more productive

>> No.19836988

It's also a lot less self-fulfilling.
Fortunately, in the grimdarkness of the far future, murder tools abound.

>> No.19837021


Denial is the easier option. After all, the only other alternative is for the Imperium to realise it has failed the Emperor, the Eldar to realise they are just unruly children who squandered all their gifts, the Tau to realise how self-servingly naive they are, the Necrons to realise they are just rustbuckets without purpose, and the Tyrannids to accept that sooner or later they're going to run out of worlds to eat or piss off someone/something that will eat them instead.

Orks are honest, and so are the Kroot. For them, it's either living for the moment or ensuring the survival of their kindred. The Enslavers, meanwhile, just bide their time.

>> No.19837034

man, even the Emperor fell into this trap when he suddenly forgot he was capable of being wrong

>> No.19837056


At best, his hubris may simply delayed Mankind's date with extinction. At worst, it may have made it utterly inevitable.

>> No.19837062

A punch in the mug is always right. He started being wrong when he retired on Terra and stopped punching things.

>> No.19837067

god the eldar just rub me the wrong way, like they aren't sorry they made slaanesh, their just sorry they didn't get away with it.

>> No.19837405

If there is ever a new dawn of war I want to see a necron lord piss off a farseer by repeatedly calling the Eldar Children

amusing nuagesc
yes indeed captcha

>> No.19837443

"You've foreseen your victory, space elf? Bazitch please, I've been running probabilities on this battle since before you were born. You might as well just take a lunch break."

>> No.19837501

So the new fluff makes the eldar the heroes of the war in heaven, right?

They kicked the necrons asses and forced them to sleep.

>> No.19837518
File: 232 KB, 484x343, everythingwillbeawesome.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

rolled 81 = 81

I giggled, good job.

>> No.19837676

yup, then they louse it up and fuck the galaxy them selves

>> No.19837677

I find it amusing people prefer Necron fluff back when they didn't have fluff because they were "Mysterious unfeeling things".

Which translates as "We were too busy to come up with fluff for them, but thought they looked cool on the tabletop."

>> No.19837886
File: 60 KB, 500x500, 1317534806912.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


yes because LOL AM CENILE ROBOT LOL I STOLE YOU STUFF is sooooooo much better.

>> No.19837913





>> No.19837937
File: 8 KB, 279x267, 1327718541413.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


wait so your arguement for the new fluff is it seems like the parody stuff of 40k on 4chan..

>> No.19837953

haha, you're really dumb and don't quite 'get' 40k, do you?

>> No.19837954

I like new Necrons

Because Cain WILL meat a yandere loli necron lady and teaming up will be required.

Amberle and the necron loli will not get along well

>> No.19837960

at least they don't go into a battle without head protection of some kind. unlike the worst faction that attracts the worst people in 40k.

>> No.19838023




>> No.19838030

the imperium is also retarded and lets a necron lord pretend to be a high inquisitor

>> No.19838038


hipster faggot much?

>> No.19838070

He IS an inquisitor

>> No.19838096

doubt that. as long as ward keeps getting work he will most likely do the 8th ed codex.

>> No.19838102
File: 37 KB, 324x605, Necrontyr-male.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Something like this maybe?

>> No.19838287
File: 11 KB, 400x393, 1324243857485.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Dunno what to think of this. Props to you though.

>> No.19838642

now we just need a way to make that female and hot.

>> No.19838674

you're saying it's not already?

>> No.19838714

check the fialname

>> No.19838781
File: 27 KB, 507x344, OccamsRazor.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.19838840
File: 142 KB, 900x950, 1326421432640.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Honestly I'd like a mixture of both Oldcrons and Newcrons. I liked the Newcron fluff initially because then they weren't space terminators working for 2 space soul-vampires (one of which had no personality and one which was just as 'Bond villain' as the current Necron characters); they could have a bit more personality to them.

But after reading posts like these two: >>19832599 >>19833201
I realized that the 'unknown robotic horrors' feel does work pretty well for them. But I also like the feeling of an ancient empire waking up and finding a bunch of upstarts in their old territory. So combine them.

The Necrons are coming back and they aren't some fallen empire. They have power beyond what any other factions can imagine. Much of the workings of reality are at their cold, metal fingertips. To all the other races, they seem impossible to read. They don't display emotion, they don't gloat, they don't make speeches, they don't speak, they don't communicate with outsiders at all. They just come, do what they want, then leave. They seem soulless and robotic to everyone. But they aren't. At least when it comes to the higher ups. The Lords and Crypteks can think for themselves and make their own plans. They're just really fucking old, so their goals and plans don't always make sense to the insects scurrying around in their old stomp-grounding.

>> No.19838851
File: 90 KB, 905x703, 1326421449667.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Sometimes what the Necrons want is kind of obvious. They suddenly arrive in an Imperial system and wipe out any human influence there. People are slaughtered, buildings razed, space stations destroyed. They clean the system of humanity's taint. Other times people are confused as to what just happened. A necron force shows up in a system, then lands on seemingly random planets, ignoring others entirely. And they don't properly take control of these chosen planets, they just take control of specific areas. Any intrusion is dealt with harshly, but they leave everything else alone. The Imperials can see they're doing *something*, they just can't tell what. And just as suddenly, they vanish, taking everything they brought, and possibly more, with them. The Imperials call it a victory, say they stopped the Necrons, but they never figure out just what they were there for in the first place.

Make that their fluff. They can do all sorts of shit that most races could only dream of. They can swat most resistance aside. They regard most races as nothing more than upstarts that aren't worth their attention. The only ones they remember, the Eldar and Orks, are nothing more than children playing with their parents' toys and a hard to cure disease respectively. The leaders of the Necrons can think for themselves and have their own agendas, but they are all so old, so beyond mortal wants and desires, their actions don't make sense to anyone not thinking in the extremely long term.

That's how I want Necrons portrayed.

>> No.19838883

The sentient t-1000 units were cold and pretty foreboding I feel like 'mysterious' better suits Necrons.

>> No.19838942

So I have some questions

Oldcrons (as they will forever be referred to now) served the C'tan right? And they were what exactly...? All I got from some fluff here and there was they were an old race of hyperadvanced beings similar to Lovecraftian Old Gods. But did The Nightbringer or Deceiver really look Lovecraftian? Sure they MIGHT have resembled Nyarlathotep in certain forms. Maybe even the fact that Lovecraftian Old God names were derived from some twisted Egyptian lingo.

But were they REALLY Lovecraftian in the sense that they bended reality?

>> No.19838946


This anon shares my opinion. Somewhere between the two would have been better.

>That feel when Warhammer background will never be decent again

>> No.19838970

This made me harder than I have been in ages

>> No.19839064

I prefer them as daemonicly possessed robots........
Chaos Andriods

>> No.19839085
File: 42 KB, 750x870, 1335025848333.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

They could bend reality, but not in the 'Lovecraftian' sense. They were just really powerful so they could bend reality to their whim, not that reality bent around them simply because they existed and were so utterly WRONG. The two C'tan most expanded upon weren't too Lovecraftian in personality either. The Nightbringer just wanted to eat everything and the Deceiver, while capable of making convoluted plots, acted like a 'Bond villain' with his gloating and all.

The Outsider, from what I know, did seem rather Lovecraftian though.

>> No.19839230

The C'tan were the VERY FIRST beings to EVER EXIST. They were ethereal, incorporeal, invisible, intangible. They were extremely vast clouds of pure energy. They fed on stars. They didn't give a shit about other stuff, they were just hungry (thirsty?), and fed (drank?) constantly. Sooner or later, they realized "Hey! I'm an extremely huge mass of energy! And I eat stars! And stars live a long time, but my eating them significantly quickens their inevitable death! I should fly!", and so they did, and they "evolved" wings, allowing them to fly to other stars. They were so above everything, they didn't even notice the Old Ones.

So, the Necrons find the Nightbringer eating on their star. Via technowizadry, they sucked the C'tan - the huge ethereal star monster - into a Necrondermis (Living Metal) body. They did this with many, many, MANY more C'tan.

The C'tan are not "gods" in the same sense that the Warp Gods are gods.Think of it this way: Imagine dropping a chemist, or a physicist, into the Neolithic era. His knowledge would be absolutely lovecraftian to the Neolithics. Why? Because while it is totally possible and understandable, they lack the knowledge to understand it. That's how the C'tan are. They are beings of pure energy, and as such, moving atoms around, or fucking with time, or just obliterating shit, is fully within their realm of possibility. They are scary BECAUSE they are "Science" and not "magic". The cold reality, is that something so terrible, so horrible, is possible. It's not something from space-hell, it's something from HERE and NOW. You cannot understand them in the same way a Neolithic Man could not understand quantum physics. It's just beyond you.

>> No.19839299

Ah, makes sense. That is much more Lovecraftian than Lovecraft imho.

>> No.19839311

Imagine being a Neolithic man. Your new "Sie-En-Tist" god-king looks down at your tools, and says "No! You men, go take your rocks, and bang on this specific stone!". And you do. He then lights a fire like it was nothing. Fire is precious, a gift from above, because of how hard it is, and this sie-en-tist just makes it like it was nothing! He then loads the rocks you broke up into the fire. And from it, comes this amazing new metal! It doesn't break, it can be hammered into shape! And then he shows you that he can make a liquid that burns like fire, and can be made into bars to clean with! Imagine that for a minute, the absolute mindfuck it would be like.

That's the C'tan. They are so incredibly powerful - because they ARE energy beings put into metal bodies, after all - that they just will shit to happen, and it does.

The C'tan feed off of energy. They don't eat souls. They "eat" the bio-electric signature from living beings. They find it tastier than stars, but unlike stars, this bio-electric food is infinitely replaceable, and doesn't make you as full as quickly. Stars are an infinity of whitebread, humans are a caviar plate on the run.

The C'tan only "fear" one thing: The Warp. They cannot interact with it. It doesn't make sense. The C'tan are beings of pure logic and science, the Warp is illogical, and makes no sense. That's why the C'tan wanted to "Shut down" the Warp. That's why the Pylons exist. That's why the Pariah gene was implanted into humanity. The C'tan want an endless, regenerating buffet of organics. That didn't work for them.

>> No.19839404

That's why I like the new fluff about the C'tan better. The whole "More than just 2, there's fucktons of shards out there" thing. Why? Because the Necrons shattered the C'tan. It says something about the implacable horde that is the Necrons. Through sheer determination, they turned those star gods into shards. And now, those horrible, evil, Lovecraftian monsters? They're in pieces, and are nothing more than willing servants. Imagine the U.S. shattering Cthulu and using his shards to fight Russia. That's what they did. And it also opens up a wealth of new possibilities.

The Deciever plots and schemes, and infiltrates human society? Yeah. It's part of a bazillion year scheme that the individual shard's Overlord owner has in play.

The implacable evil horde is still possible. Hell, it's better now. The OldCron fluff sucked, let's be honest. Rewind a few years back, and EVERYONE was saying they wanted EXACTLY WHAT WE GOT NOW. The Necrons are still the monsters that make the gods themselves shit themselves. The Necrons are still the horrible beings that are exterminating the Frogs creations. They just have personality now.

The Dolmen Gates thing is pretty pooey, I do agree. But that's just long distance travel. They can still rocket forward into space, just crashing their ships through Imperial cruisers and continuing on their journey. The Dolmen Gates are just used to move shit from one end of the galaxy to another.

>> No.19839593


that shit is cray

>> No.19839799

Since the earlier posts in this thread brought up the Old Ones.
If they arn't the Slann, there's a possibility I've always liked on the identity of the Old Ones, mentioned in Warpstone magazine.

So, Just Who Were the Old Ones?
This is very much the realm of individual GMs. Originally, the Old Slann were the shapers of the Warhammer World (formally named hear with the Old Slann project code WW1983/HAP.BA) and its races, but as the Warhammer game developed the Old Ones took over and the Slann became their subordinates. I've mostly gone with this idea, but I view the Old Slann (those of the First Spawning) more as junior partners or employees than as servants. I also view the skinny frogmen Slann of earlier editions of Warhammer Fantasy Battle as descendents of the Old Slann, but born outside the traditional spawning pools that gave rise to the current bloated Slann Mage Priests.

>> No.19839812


So, just who were the Old Ones and why were they wiped out by the collapse of the warp gates? My answer begins with the idea that the Old Ones were not entirely destroyed. Every member of th Old One race living on the planet was psykically linked to the warp gates in some incomprehensible tekno-psykic fashion. When the gates collapsed, the Old Ones were struck by a massive wave of uncontrolled warp energy, no matter whereabouts on the planet they were. The shock killed the majority of them, but some went mad and some became twisted by Chaos or Law. All of them lost their memories, completely forgetting who and what they were, forcing them to set out on a new road, forging new personalities and gooals. The effects were passed on to their offspring. Only a few of the first Old Ones still live, but most are asleep. However some of their descendants live on.
Here's the idea: the Old Ones and their descendents are the Dragons. For me this explains the Old Ones affinity for lizard races (including the Zoats) and the willingness of some Dragons to interact with the Elves, a race those Dragons felt they recognised for reasons they could never quite remember. It also gives the Dragons a place in the world, rather than leaving them as something a fantasy game has to include by default.

>> No.19839830

So yeah, heavily centered on Warhammer Fantasy. But I kind of like the idea of the Old Ones as ancient draconic beings, who are remembered only in myths.

They were around on terra when dinosaurs were, who they probably picked as their inheritors, until the Necrontyr and C'tan started wiping them out, leaving the Old Ones to uplift mammals instead.

>> No.19841754

My WHFB fluff knowledge is a little hazy, but what I can remember the Old Ones created the Slann, who moved the planet closer to the sun, and this melt most of the ice covering it and the dragons woke up.

So really, only affiliation the Old Ones have with lizards are the Slann.

Thorpe said once the Old Ones are not one race, but a group of the first great races.

So instead of a few powerful beings we now have every lord and lady of the Necron empire with equal pull on the world as a C'Tan did in the old fluff?

All the talk of Necron genius and power is no different from any other factions "we have a 'fuck you' button to the world and can press it any time we want" (Ork hordes and Gork & Mork, GK ultima decree or whatever it was, Eldar ynnead, etc.)

I don't remember anyone during the years leading up to the new codex going "You know what the Necrons need? To become another sentient race with a lost empire."

>> No.19841767


I remember many being taken with the idea once the C'tan retcon got leaked about 6 months before codex release, and even more complaints about C'tan doing everything during 3e, 4e and 5e.

We can take an empire over another set of dark gods - Necrons have more than enough differences to Imperium or Tau to make up for being an empire that wants to conquer the galaxy.

>> No.19841778

Both are good but I prefer the unknown horror from the dawn of time. It just fits my vision of 40k better - aliens are really alien and there can never be peace between them. When I have Necrons in 40k RPG, the low gothic speaking Newcron supervillians are laughably cartoony while the silent Oldcrons are grim, unstoppable death. So until expanded works deal with Newcrons and do something interesting with them, they'll just be stupid metal humans to me.

HOWEVER.... the C'tan were badly written in the old codex (they only became interesting after Black Library and others started to portray them as suitably Lovecraftian) and the new Skeletor Pharaoh gives more opportunity for modelling.

So I'm really mixed up about it. The C'tan were bullshit and needed toning down, the Necrons needed personality, and the Newcron codex is overall very very good with way better fluff than I'd expected from Ward, but I still miss the implied nihilistic horror of the Oldcrons.

If the expanded fluff expands the Newcrons into more than just "zombie robots all led by variations of Starscream from Transformers" then I'll love it.

>> No.19841805
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You'll have to wait for that forever - 40k has always been cartoony. Abaddon is often compared to Cobra Commander though with how he shoots his own men he's more like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCYgXLiLwsU .

Speaking of Transformers, Dark Eldar are full of Starscreams, as are some Chaos Marine warbands. When it comes to Necrons, the Stormlord is more like Shockwave with logicless Orks confusing him and whatnot.

>> No.19841876

I liked the old C'tan because they gave a polar opposite to the Chaos gods. Even more so, they didn't need warp magicks to bend reality.

Now they're just more like Jokaero, some stupid alien race enslaved by another stupid alien race to do their bidding. Necrons also lost their independence of the warp. Without the Eldar webway their worlds would be doomed to isolation, so what ever magical teleportations and FTL drives they have, they suck now.

That's one thing I never got, why must all scifi worlds have one, und only one form of FTL? In Star Trek it's warp drives, Star Wars has hyperspace, in B5 that strawberry jam place, etc. Why can't there be different ways each with their own pros and cons?

>> No.19841902


Warp and Chaos are the one of the defining things in 40k. Races that are excempt for rules, or "dark" versions of the Chaos Gods, should not be added. That just cheapens the setting.

C'tan hate is like now everyone hates Superboy Prime and other knockoff characters writers try to shove into everything.

>> No.19841997

yes, it's unjustified. You should hate the guys who are writing them, but not the characters themselves. They're just characters, not people.

>> No.19842035


Who said writers were unhated?

Since the writers interact with players by writing characters, a proper course of action would be to demand that writing change. And fortunately it did, at least where Necrons and C'tan are concerned.

>> No.19842066

Yes. Although the result was an unnecessary downgrade of the C'tans, when all that was needed to fix them was simply to dedicate a lot less fluff to them and to develop the necrons' fluff instead.

But what I'm complaining about is that some people here on /tg/ hate the C'tans PERSONALLY, as if the C'tans, simply because they were badly written, had wronged them, and needed to be punished in the fluff for their sins as characters against the fluff itself. Needless to say, that's extremely childish.

>> No.19842098


I for my part do not believe the downgrade was in any way unnecessary, it adds much-needed vagueness in the C'tan origin story (not necessarily living in stars at all or found by Necrons etc) and also adds to the thematic of decay and Grim Darkness by proving that not even ancient gods are immune to them - and necrons with their malfunctions certainly aren't either.

>> No.19842140

I, personally, prefer the Newcrons. They give you the ability to make your army unique. What I hate, other than the addition of the webway, are the people who say "you can have your oldcrons just make them malfunctioning necrons".

>> No.19842217

Newcrons, by far. Feels more like a complete faction than SILENT DEATH ROBOTS WITH MAGIC GUNS.

Even The Terminator had personality.

>> No.19842229

by your logic, everyone in 40k should become a harmless babby who believes himself to be super-powerful.
The positive effect of the "downgrade" is that it made them significantly more lovecraftian, but it was still a clumsy way of explaining why they weren't all that powerful on a battlefield.

>> No.19842242

Then just make them rebellious necrons.

>> No.19842260


Not at all, that's a slippery slope fallacy.

If I consider C'tan - who in any case were just another four evil gods except these ones could function in the materium - deserving of such treatment, in no way does that imply I want Abaddon to really be a grot using a hologram projector or something like that.

>> No.19842286

Well, actually it does, because characters don't "deserve" to be "punished" or "rewarded". We simply need them to be written coherently with the rest of the setting.

And I precisely suspect guys like you of actually wanting Abaddon to lose his warmaster title and even maybe his arms.

>> No.19842316


It still doesn't, but maybe the point goes across if I say C'tan are "good subjects for" instead of "deserving of". The retcon was indeed what I considered bringing them in coherency with the rest of the setting. "Materium Gods" weren't what was needed, and making the C'tan and Necrons subjects of decay and grimdark like other factions, and also lessening their separation from the Warp was a positive change.

As for whatever conspiracies you haved about the motives of those who approve C'tan retcon, doesn't really matter to me and Games Workshop writers are likely equally uncaring.

>> No.19842337


About the armless one...

Abaddon losing his warmaster title would be perfectly plausible and also doable without retconning.

Chaos is fickle, and Abaddon can lose in a fight (Stern and Eldrad have canonically forced his retreat from the field) and his personal spaceship can be blown up.

>> No.19842405

You see, before the retcon, they were already as "decayed" as the warp gods: they were simply hungry beasts with a childlike fascination for living beings and their psychology. That was in my opinion degrading enough. Maybe even too much. The new codex didn't only "kill" them, but also kept this "big dumb things" aspect. That's too much, and at this point, there's nearly no reason left to present them as gods.

>> No.19843332

How on earth does it cheapen the setting?

In their current form the C'tan make Old Ones looks like total pussies. Before it took great effort and scheming from their part to defeat the C'tan and drive them into hiding, but in doing so they destroyed themselves as the warp became messed up and the Enslavers ate them all.

Now the most powerful races in all the galaxy were just sitting ducks to the awesomeness of the Necrons, who in turn blew up the C'tan once they didn't need them like it was nothing.

So really, we just replaced the C'tan with the Necrons themselves as the scheming menace behind the scenes. "C'tans did it" is replaced with "Newcrons did it."

>> No.19845212

Haven't read all of this because i dont have much time, but heres what i think:
I always thought that they were the most tragic race in 40k.
Denied the joys of the elder race, they turn to merciless beings they elevate to gods only to be enslaved by them, forever waging the war of their unloving and uncaring masters, not able to ever loose their shackles.
Also, the horror thing one of the first answers mentioned BEFORE the first codex was awesome :3

Also, i think it kind of cheapens the emperor IF he only killed a shard of the dragon (was the dragon whole even with the new fluff?). Because before he barely managed to kill a god..if it was just a small part of one..

>> No.19845799
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Maybe the Dragon hid and slept the slumber of near-death to avoid the Necrons.

But then again I would also have it that the Emperor is just an old biomancer psyker that could cause illusions, he was the one warlord that got lucky and survived long enough to see the end of the warp storms and his ultimate goal was to become a god and he regarded humanity as nothing more than his stepping stone.

>> No.19845822

No, it was just a shard, Ward confirmed in white dwarf that the dragon got sharded.

>> No.19846006
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>> No.19846147

>Also, i think it kind of cheapens the emperor
Yeah, because cheapening the Old Ones (who couldn't do that), the Eldar (whose god maybe managed it, possibly), all the Young Races (who fought against the C'tan), the C'tan themselves and the Necrons is preferrable to that.
That piece in "Mechanicum" was atrocious and flew in the face of established canon (such as the C'tan hiding only on dead worlds), so good riddance.

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