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[ERROR] No.19818447 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So thanks to the 6th edition we recently started talking about all the armies and one in particular seems to have everyone envisioning a grim future for it: Sisters of Battle.

I can't help but worry about them, especially due to some parts of their current track record according to 1d4chan:
-A whole Order turned to Chaos by one Slaaneshi Keeper of Secrets.
-A whole Order Mind Controlled by one chaos Psyker.
-Three whole Orders killed by the Space Wolves Astartes chapter when they try to inquire about that ship full of unarmed priests the Space Wolves shot down earlier.
-99% of sisters in the galaxy vanishing due to to a retcon in the two whole paragraphs of fluff given them by the 5e rulebook. Considered by most to be proof of what was to come, considering the clown-car that is the current Sisters of Battle army on tabletop.
-A whole shrine-world of Sisters killed by Chaos Dreadnought. Said dread shrugs off meltas, meltabombs and multiple Exorcist volleys, a Living Saint even gives up her divinity to stop it, and fails. It's destroyed instantly when a Marine throws a hammer at it. We are not making this shit up.
-An entire convent of Sisters killed by Grey Knights, their bodies violated and their blood applied to the Grey Knights' armor, so the Grey Knights can be immune to demonic corruption, even though they were already immune to all forms of demonic corruption, due to the fact that they are the Imperium's daemon killers. See also: Khornate Knights. Alternatively, this can be viewed as a middle finger at the feminists. God-Emperor knows that those are nothing but trouble.
-Necron Lord Trazyn the Infinite keeps the head of Sebastian Thor mounted on his wall like a Deer Trophy.

So what do you think will happen ? Will they be simply forgotten ? Will they scrap them ? Or is the WD codex just a place holder for a real update like in the case of Blood Angels ?

>> No.19818482

>>19818447
>-A whole shrine-world of Sisters killed by Chaos Dreadnought. Said dread shrugs off meltas, meltabombs and multiple Exorcist volleys, a Living Saint even gives up her divinity to stop it, and fails. It's destroyed instantly when a Marine throws a hammer at it.
>We are not making this shit up.

Yes you are. You have to be.

>> No.19818487

>> No.19818504

> 99% of sisters in the galaxy vanishing due to to a retcon in the two whole paragraphs of fluff given them by the 5e rulebook. Considered by most to be proof of what was to come, considering the clown-car that is the current Sisters of Battle army on tabletop.

Please. Some explanation/citation needed, or this didn't happened.

>> No.19818511

>>19818504
It's nothing. I swear though if the SoB fanbase actually believes this and spouts this whole "Games Workshop is misogynistic" crap, then they are whinier than eldar, pre-5th dark eldar, and tau put together

>> No.19818540

>>19818511
I'm not at that point. IMO we're stuck in that catch-22 where the army doesn't sell well enough to warrant a plastic rerelease and it doesn't sell because of old, vastly overpriced sculpts

>> No.19818573

>>19818540
They should just make a Codex : Battle sisters, with options to take inquisitors as characters like in the grey knight codex.
There : you have a fine counterpart to the full psyker-marines codex, with hordes of fanatical units instead of an elite army.
RELEASE THE PLASTIC SISTERS/ARCOFLAGELANTS/PRIESTS/FANATICS ALREADY !

>> No.19818585

SoB are the whipping girls of 40k, even moreso than the Eldar.

I don't think they've ever won a single fluff victory on their own.

>> No.19818604

Can't have pretty ladies in my ALL GRIMDARK ALL THE TIME universe.

Man, I liked the Sisters.

>> No.19818615

>>19818604
Why cant they be ugly then?
Also Wyches.

>> No.19818624

>>19818615

Dude have you SEEN their models? They're already ugly as all fuck.

>> No.19818627

>>19818482
I truly honestly want to believe, man. I mean fuck, a reasonably-prepared Guard regiment could handle a single dreadnought.

The fucking GUARD, man.

>> No.19818629

>>19818585
You mean outside their own Codex ?

>> No.19818633

>>19818624
I... i like my SoB models...

>> No.19818674

>>19818627
Well the Dread obviously had some grade-A plot armor to withstand Meltas or you know, a Living Saint.

My guess it's just more of Black Library bullshit. Or the Chaos codex. I don't read either so someone please enlighten me.

>> No.19818689

>>19818540

According to several sources there are plastic and Finecast SoB already sitting in storage waiting for release early to mid 2013.

>> No.19818717

>>19818447
>actually caring about what happens in the terribly written fluff
Ishiggitydadadaaaah.

>> No.19818776

>>19818627
Black Library book, Fire Born I think it was?

>> No.19818874

>>19818689
I'll believe it when GW officially announces it.

>MFW after the price gouging the plastic models cost as much as the metal models do now if they are finally released.

>> No.19818892

>>19818776
The only thing that shits on SoB worse than the codexes is the Black Library novels.

They do not have ONE positive depiction of them in the novels. Not one goddamn positive depiction. In every one they are retarded and their enemies have outrageous plot armor.

They've fallen a long way from the hunters of chaos space marines they used to be.

>> No.19819027

>>19818892

Does this remind you of anything?

>> No.19819070

>>19819027
oh god

oh god it's back.

>> No.19819118

>>19818892
They aren't horribly portrayed in the Shira Calpurnia novels, the worst scene in it is when the bad guy's mega-combat-servitor kicks everyone's ass, and that's because he'd spent more on that servitor than most people would on a Space Marine. The rest of the book they spend being helpful allies to the Arbites.

>> No.19819159

Is there an instance of the sisters of battle not dying horribly and actually winning?

>> No.19819228

Let's review the Inquisiton, then...

Ordo Malleus: Army of Primarch Psykers with xenos tech, Daemon weapons, and Nemesis Dreadknights. In game they get Draigowing, Purifier fuckery, Psyflemen, etc.
>Verdict: OP in game and in fluff

Ordo Xenos: The best Space Marines of every other Chapter band together to be hardcore. Represented in game by Codex: Space Marines, the Mario of the codexes.
>Verdict: Pretty legit

Ordo Hereticus: >>19818447 I have never seen Adeptas Sororitas at my store, though I have a friend who might get back into 40K if they got a good codex
>Verdict: areyouserious.jpg

GW is insane or sexist or both synergistically to shit on an entire Ordo this hard in its fluff, let alone grind it under their glacial release schedule, too.

Or is it correct to blame their current troubles in game on just one man, He Who Is Not To Be Named?

>> No.19819234

>>19818892
Wait, what about their own books ? Like Red & Black for example.

>> No.19819257

>>19818892
Now that's not right at all!
Though he paints them as slightly crazy zealots, any time a SoB pops up in the Caine novels they're depicted pretty well.

>> No.19819269

Maybe if rogue psykers become a legit threat in 6th they might be relevant again.

>> No.19819313

>>19819228
>GW is insane or sexist or both synergistically to shit on an entire Ordo this hard in its fluff, let alone grind it under their glacial release schedule, too.

They need a punching boy to hype the other codexes to look badass and since SoBs are already in a state where almost no one plays them the bitching and cash loss will be kept to minimum.

Think the Justice League cartoon: for a good chunk of the first season Superman was getting bent over by everybody and their mom just to make everybody else on the team look better. You could say that IG used to be the punching bag but now that it's becoming the Batman of 40k (you know, fanboys fapping to how they're/he's the best because they're only humans in a world of super people and consequently should be able to beat everyone else because humanity fuck yeah etc) so they can't beat them up anymore.

>> No.19819357

>>19819313

Isn't that what the Avatar is for?

>> No.19819373

>>19819313

Ah, the Worf effect. You do raise a good point: Sisters occupy kind of a weird midpoint between very human Guardsmen and very inhuman Space Marines, being normal humans bodies with supernatural faith and power armor. This a is really interesting niche, why don't they use it as more than a stepping stone for Daemons? If you want a bodycount, have your bad guys kill some PDF- that's what the PDF's are there for, canonically!

>> No.19819401

>>19819373
Also orks

>> No.19819424

>>19819373
It's not serious business if your codex's fluff talks only about killing armies without a codex of their own.

>> No.19819457

>>19819373
Yeah, that's pretty much the thing that draws me towards them. In a universe full of daemons, mutants, techno-organic abominations the Sororitas are just humans who stand against those things with only their faith to protect them (well, and tanks, but never mind those). But unlike the Guard they're generally not just a faceless mass of dudes that gets torn apart with regularity.
They're kinda like the Bretons in Fantasy in that respect, and that's why I like them. Even if the last "codex" took some character out of them.

>> No.19819487

>>19819424

>Open DE Codex
>And then they off with a brazillian slaves

sadface.jpg

>Keep reading
>"And then they trolled the Tau. And then they trolled Iyanden. And then they trolled Ahriman. They trolled Salamanders JUST TO TROLL THEMSELVES"

Oh, Phil...

>> No.19819527

>>19818892
there is the short story about a sister fighting alongside an Ultramarine on a war torn world when the two run into a demon prince of nurgle. The ultramarine is turned through mindfuckery and the sister makes it her personal mission to bring the traitor to justice.

I can't remember the name but its in one of those collections of short stories

>> No.19819533

About thier only decent depiction was in the Ciaphas Cain books. They were efficient, deadly, and all about the purging. Fearless to the point of obsession, but not entirely beyond reason, as Cain managed to talk them out of holding an undefensible position, with a "Live to purge another day" speech.

He also boned the head soritas, because 1) no vow of chastity and 2) he's Cain.

>> No.19819548

>>19819457
Reminds me a bit of why I loved DH Storm Troopers:

>Guardsman: Oh look guys, we Guardsmen have it so though, fighting off Orks from behind a gunline of some of the best heavy weapons Imperium can offer, with the full support of planes, bombers, fighters, artillery and tanks. You goddamn Glory Boys can fuck off.
>DH Storm Trooper: ...
>Inquisitor: Ready Storm Troopers ? I'm sending you to fight on a planet occupied by Chaos Space Marines and their unending army of Daemons. And no, you're not getting any tanks. Man up, you got Hellguns - that's way better than those poor Guardsmen !

>> No.19819552

>>19818447
>According to 1d4chan
>a wikipedia run by 4chan users
Oh well in that case we know this is all reliable fact.

>> No.19819595

>An entire convent of Sisters killed by Grey Knights

>On the morning of the ninth day, Sisters of Battle from the Order of the Ebon Chalice assault the basilica. Some Battle Sisters are corrupted on contact with the Bloodtide. Those who endure fight valiantly, but most are slaughtered by the Bloodletters atop the basilica walls.

>entire convent

>> No.19819637

Does someone have a source for the dreadnaught story?

>> No.19819662

What is it about 6th that has brought out all the whiny bolter bitches?

Seems to me we should be hearing a lot more from nid players, or another army that actually got fucked by 6th.

>> No.19819673

>A whole Order turned to Chaos by one Slaaneshi Keeper of Secrets.

Greater Daemons are really powerful, this isn't bullshit.

>A whole Order Mind Controlled by one chaos Psyker.

Same here, Psykers can be insanely powerful.

>Three whole Orders killed by the Space Wolves Astartes chapter when they try to inquire about that ship full of unarmed priests the Space Wolves shot down earlier.

They were trying to invade Fenris.

>An entire convent of Sisters killed by Grey Knights, their bodies violated and their blood applied to the Grey Knights' armor, so the Grey Knights can be immune to demonic corruption, even though they were already immune to all forms of demonic corruption

The Grey Knights have proven immune so far, that doesn't mean they don't take precautions. They have a perfect track record, and they'd like to keep it that way.

>> No.19819683

>>19819662
The amount of nids not complaining when they rightfully should be is actually very surprising. They literally are underpowered by all measures of the term in 6th edition.

Nid players confirmed for least amount of faggotry.

>> No.19819695

>>19819662
I wouldn't say Nids got fucked, Fearless, Rage and Monstrous Creatures got better.

>> No.19819710

>>19819695
They can't take any allies, thats pretty damn huge. Can't say for 100% since its still a new edition, but chances are that ally combos will be at the top of the meta.

>> No.19819714

>>19819683
>Nid players confirmed for least amount of faggotry.

Hahaha. No.
They totally flipped their shit when they got their codex and when they saw their allies table. No faction has the least shit players.

>> No.19819718

>> No.19819722

>>19819673
>ship full of unarmed priests
>invading Fenris
Oh yeah, I can totally see that one.

>> No.19819742

>>19819695

With the rage rules now, what's even the point of using synapse?

Just dump your guys out, let them feed, and then go home

>> No.19819745

>>19819673

What I don't understand is how turning a battle nun into a hat wards off corruption.

>> No.19819748

>>19819673
>Space Wolves shoot down ship of unarmed priest
>Kill three orders of sisters
>The Imperium, instead of crying "Heretic!" goes, "Oh you crazy spess wolves".

And /tg/ thinks Ultrasmurfs are painfully speshul snowflakes.

>> No.19819758

>>19819722
It didn't say the Priests were unarmed, but they even if they were, they still came to Space Wolf territory without permission. But the Sisters came later to Fenris.

>> No.19819777

>>19819745
Some of the Sisters had shown themselves immune to the effects of the Bloodtide, the Grey Knights took that immunity from their innocent (or was it pure?) blood.

>> No.19819810

>>19819745
Holy pure blood works as a shield against evil daemon blood, because spess magic. Also something about nanites. Or something.

>> No.19819838

>>19818604
>>19818624
Sisters are the manliest army in the entire fucking game.
Chisel jaws and all.

Pic related.
It's a member of the Order of the Superior Incarcerators.

>> No.19819845

>>19819777
So why isn't that considered heretical as all fuck? Oh look, those Sisters are so pure and fervent in their belief that the demons can't touch them. Surely they must be under the direct protection of the Emprah himself. Let's murder them all and use their blood in a ritual that's as Khornate as it gets.

>> No.19819853

>>19819745

Murdering your allies and painting your men in their blood sounds...kiiiinda like something that would only occur to someone corrupted by chaos?

If this was in the hands of better writers I'd assume we were being set up for a big reveal that the incorruptible grey knights have slowly been succumbing and their own secrecy and massively overblown self-importance hid the fact from everyone - even themselves - until it was too late.

>> No.19819882

>>19819845

It's because GWs writing quality has taken a turn for the retarded recently, and it doesn't even have a central codification to keep everyone on the same page of stupid.

'All the shit's true, maybe' is a good thing for readers. It's a dick-in-blender stupid thing to tell the writers.

>> No.19819906

>>19819845
>So why isn't that considered heretical as all fuck?

Weaker men may not judge the Grey Knights. Besides, who the fuck else would know about it?

>Oh look, those Sisters are so pure and fervent in their belief that the demons can't touch them.

The Daemons could touch them, in fact the Daemons massacring them. They just did didn't go crazy when contacting with the Bloodtide.

>Surely they must be under the direct protection of the Emprah himself.

No.

>Let's murder them all and use their blood in a ritual that's as Khornate as it gets.

Oh, yes, the psychic Space Marines denying the Khornate daemons the shedding of blood and then utilizing said blood and sorcery so that they could defeat a Bloodthirster is totally Khornate.

>> No.19819917

>>19819845
Why does the Imperium cover everything in skulls? Don't they know they're just feeding the power of the Blood God?

>> No.19819942

>>19819533

>he also boned the head soritas

What, when? I don't recall this during that book.

>> No.19819961

Sup.

Can anyone give me any justification why the eldar and tau are battle brother?

>> No.19819965

>>19819906
The grey knights are already fuck-all powerful and incorruptible. Why did they even need the blood of allies who withstood corruption and could actually help?

>> No.19819970

>>19819961
Because when they're not trying to kill you, the Eldar are trying to work with you, and the Tau will work well with anyway

>> No.19819971

>>19819965
Because of him.

>> No.19819979

>>19819942

It actually wasn't Cain who boned the head sororita, it was one of the other Councillors. It was meant to be a red herring early in the book by implying he was sneaking out to do heresy stuff.

>> No.19819981

>>19819961
Both can be pretty reasonable, and they have no reason to hate one another.
Also it probably decreases Xenosplayer bitching, can you imagine if only the Imperial factions got Battle Brothers?

>> No.19819989

>>19819961
At some point Eldrad said something about the Tau possibly becoming useful in the future. The Tau are jus desperate to be accepted in the Cool Xeno's club.

>> No.19819990

>>19819970
Has there been any precedence of eldar/tau cooperation in the fluff?

>> No.19820012

>>19819965
>The grey knights are already fuck-all powerful and incorruptible.

So far. If you've never had a sunburn does that mean you should walk outside on one of the sunniest days you've ever experienced with no sunblock?

>Why did they even need the blood of allies who withstood corruption and could actually help?

They couldn't help, they were being butchered, and they hadn't even made it to the heart of the taint yet. The Grey Knights would likely also have had to kill them after the Battle anyway.

>> No.19820046

>>19819981
>A dying race
>Allying with a race that sterilizes people left and right

Oh...Boy.

Brace for hilarity ladies and gentlemen.

>> No.19820065

I feel as though there should just be an Inquisition codex.

>> No.19820070

>>19820046
They've never, and have never shown interest in, sterilizing Eldar. And it's not like the Eldar would care about them sterilizing humans.

>> No.19820077

>>19819906
Dude, Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, just that it does. The grey knights did him a massive fucking favour.

>> No.19820079

>>19820065
Codex: Grey Knights

>> No.19820098

>-A whole shrine-world of Sisters killed by Chaos Dreadnought. Said dread shrugs off meltas, meltabombs and multiple Exorcist volleys, a Living Saint even gives up her divinity to stop it, and fails. It's destroyed instantly when a Marine throws a hammer at it.

What the fuck? How can anyone write something this retarded?

>> No.19820100

>>19819917
The difference is they are all human skulls. The symbol of humanity in a universe of monstrosities. It's the same reason anything and everything had a cross on it during the height of Spanish Imperialism.

>> No.19820105

>>19820077
That statement refers to Khorne not caring whether the blood shed is that of his Champions or his foes.

>> No.19820120

>>19820077
How? The Sisters were going to get killed anyway, the Grey Knights merely took away the satisfaction of the Daemons by denying them the kills.

>> No.19820122

>>19820105
And the blood of his foes was shed, just not by the daemons. Blood was shed, and Khorne's enemies fell. Seems like the GK did him a favour to me

>> No.19820127

>>19820100
But Khorne is the Lord of Skulls, therefore anything involving skulls empowers him.

>> No.19820148

It's almost like GW is turning one human faction into such a little whipped bitch in both the fluff and the game that nobody wants to play them AT ALL, so they can justify cutting said human faction out of the game due to poor sales and focus on making more money off people buying allied units thanks to the massively retarded allies table in this edition.

Naw. No way they'd do that.

>> No.19820168

>>19820120
The very fact that the Grey Knights were there to end the daemon incursion meant that they weren't about to die anymore. Last I checked GKs are supposed to be ridiculously loyal to the emperor, so you'd think the survival of a group of people who are so fervent in their devotion to that same emprah that they can literally work miracles would be at least of some importance to them.

>> No.19820170

>>19820070
>the eldar faces when they get secretly sterilized by the tau after helping them out

the tau are crafty they have state of the art sterilizing tech that even the eldar won't detect.

>> No.19820173

>>19820122
>And the blood of his foes was shed, just not by the daemons.

No, but by Stronger foes, the daemons were denied blood, worse, the blood was turned against them using sorcery.

>Blood was shed, and Khorne's enemies fell. Seems like the GK did him a favour to me

Favor would be letting the daemons slaughter the Sisters and letting Khorne have the world, not denying him it, in part thanks to the use of sorcery - which Khorne despises.

>> No.19820175

>>19820122
In fact, let me elaborate.

Daemons don't have blood, so it doesn't cost blood to generate them
Sisters and Greyknights do have blood.
All the Sisters and likely one or two greyknights were killed, and their blood was shed, regardless of who by.
Dead daemons don't shed blood, so Khorne has not lost any blood with their loss.
Overall net gain of blood for Khorne.

>> No.19820183

Moving off the Bloodtide thing for a sec, am I the only one who noticed that the Sisters have their own goddamn fluff page and miniatures section in the 6E rulebook? Which is, you know, far more than they got in 5th edition?

>> No.19820185

>>19820120
Yeah what other people said: Khorne only cares about things getting killed. He doesn't even care if his OWN guys get killed. The simple act of killing empowers the guy.

In short: Khorne is the most powerful chaos god in terms of raw power, but generally too busy gutting itself and everyone around it to be of any real use. Otherwise known as "Why haven't the Orks taken over the galaxy yet?"

>> No.19820202

>>19820168
>The very fact that the Grey Knights were there to end the daemon incursion meant that they weren't about to die anymore.

The Grey Knights kill those humans who know of them, unless they are authorized to know, so that the Grey Knights can retain their secrecy.

>Last I checked GKs are supposed to be ridiculously loyal to the emperor

True.

>o you'd think the survival of a group of people who are so fervent in their devotion to that same emprah that they can literally work miracles would be at least of some importance to them.

Untrue, the Grey Knights look down on fanatics.

>> No.19820219

Pathetic mon-keigh females thinking that their Emperor is a God.

>> No.19820252

>>19820170

In the Grim Darkness of the 41st millennium, there are zero babies.

>> No.19820264

>>19820202
Well that just goes to show that every single part of current GK fluff ist fucktarded instead of only the blood tide.

>> No.19820268

>>19820219
Better than your gods.

>> No.19820271

>>19820268
Least my gods can walk mon-keigh.

>> No.19820276

>>19820264
>Well that just goes to show that every single part of current GK fluff ist fucktarded instead of only the blood tide.

They've been team killing since long before Codex Grey Knights.

>> No.19820284

>>19820183

I did notice that, they got an entire entry with all of the other major races which SURELY suggests they are not going to be squatted any time soon.

That said, >>19818504 asked for citation on his quote, and its right there in the new rulebook on page 195 that the numbers of Sisters are down to several major orders numbering "several thousand" and many smaller orders number a "few hundred". Compare this to the Guard, who in the same rulebook as specifically stated to have recruitment numbers running into the "billions" in a single day. That said, page 195 also mentions that the Sisters have a major role in protecting Shrine Worlds, various shrines and artifacts and pilgrimages, which would be impossible with only a few tens of thousands of soldiers. So perhaps this is just GW not making sense.

>> No.19820288

>>19820264
Yeah, the Grey Knights never harmed innocents before. This is all that fucker Ward's fault.

>> No.19820297

>>19820271
How can they walk when they're dead?

>> No.19820300

>EIDF

wat? when did start you appear?

>> No.19820306

>>19818447
>A whole Order Mind Controlled by one chaos Psyker.
And this was the faction that originally was tasked with keeping Psykers in check which they achieved by pure FAITH?

...what the hell?

>> No.19820312

>>19820297
Silly mon-keigh thinks my gods are dead.

>>19820300
I've always been here, watching from the shadows.

>> No.19820324

>>19820297
What is already dead may never die, Mon'Keigh.

>> No.19820326

>>19820306
No, they were originally just a Cult that Vandire got to suck his dick.

>> No.19820330

>>19820288
Yes they did...

They were just never as 'sue'-ish.

>> No.19820339

>>19820326
Nono, I didn't mean that it was their primary purpose, just that apparently, they were aboard the Black Ships in older fluff.

>> No.19820342

>>19820312
>Silly mon-keigh thinks my gods are dead.

It's true, the best you've got is a big matchstick that can be taken out be a ballsy Space Marine.

>> No.19820346

I want to complain about my codex

>> No.19820356

>>19820339
>Nono, I didn't mean that it was their primary purpose, just that apparently, they were aboard the Black Ships in older fluff.

Got a source for that?

>> No.19820368

>>19820356
I think he took it from http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Ships

>> No.19820369

>>19820330
>They were just never as 'sue'-ish.

How are they more so now? Super special psychic marines has always been "sue-ish."

>> No.19820376

>>19820346
Thy should just remove all those chaos codices and arm books and write Realms of Chaos 2.0.

>> No.19820410

>CSIDF
>EIDF

We just got rid of TIDF.

We don't need anymore of you guys!

>> No.19820415

I thought sisters came off far better in this rulebook than the previous one.

For a start the got a page of fluff and at least one page of models (maybe two but the scan is missing the page before so I don't know, if someone with a copy would be willing to tell me whats on page 261 and 262 that would be great), as well as a few mentions else where in the fluff section. This is up from the single sentence they got in 5th.

The also got a place on the allies matrix and all their units and weapons where in the appendices. Not the sort of thing you'd expect to see if the army was being squated.

A few reliable rumour mongers around the internet as well have been saying for some time that the new models were complete, and are pretty much just waiting on a codex/release date. Although that was back just before the white dwarf codex came so who know what happened to them, hopefully no dropped molds this time.

>> No.19820417

>>19820288
>>19820276
So wait, GKs kill people involved in their operations because first-hand experiences with daemons could cause corruption down the line. That's why the other guy said the Sister's were marked for death the second the GKs touched down on the planet. But then they bathed in the Sister's blood specifically because they've proven to be immune to corruption.
Suffice to say, that doesn't make any damn sense.

>> No.19820421

>>19820410
The blue skin is still here.

>> No.19820460

>>19820417
They also kill to make sure that they themselves stay secret. Only certain people are allowed to know about them. Even most other Space Marines don't know they exist.

>> No.19820466

>>19820284
I think that while the major orders have been decreased in size, they might have meant that "many" mean thousands if not millions of lesser orders that maintain shrines and whatnot.

My reasoning on this is due to having to argue with people who think that in one of the main books when it mentions a dozens of galaxies devoured by the Tyranids, the writers probably meant lots of galaxies and not a specific number.

>> No.19820486

>>19820460
Except for your dashing Gabriel Angelos and Davian Thule.

>> No.19820489

>>19820421
>not knowing that Tau skin is supposed to be grey
So much for the all-encompassing wisdom of the Eldar.

>> No.19820500

>>19820489
canonically, it's usually grey, but can be blue, dark red, yellow, and even green.

>> No.19820502

>>19820486
Most, not all.

>> No.19820515

>>19820460
Such as, oh I don't know, members of the Ecclesiarchy like Kazamarov? But more to the point, I refer back to my initial point:
>GK fluff is fucktarded

>> No.19820518

>>19820489
Tell me mon-keigh, why do some of you call each other white when you are pink?

>> No.19820541

>>19820515
>Karamazov

Is an Inquisitor. They're allowed to know.

>GK fluff is fucktarded

I think you're just butthurt.

>> No.19820603

>>19820466

It would have to be millions for it to make any sense even in the slightest, but I don't trust GW's sense of scale any further than I can define it.

>> No.19820604

>>19820515
>members of the Ecclesiarchy like Kazamarov

The Ecclesiarchy fucking hates Karamazov. He is also an Inquisitor.

>> No.19820621

>>19820421
Nope.

He retired.

>> No.19820635

He is?

>> No.19820636

>>19820621
When did the blue skin retire?

I gazed upon him this morning.

>> No.19820641

>>19820518

Barring a truly phenomenal heatwave, we're closer to white than we are to pink. Tau are closer to grey than they are to blue.

Much like how Eldar are closer to homosexual than they are to hetereosexual SHAPOW

>> No.19820643

>>19820183
Squats had there own stats and pictures in the 2nd edition Rulebook.
Chaos Dwarfs got a ravening hordes.
Dog's of War had a white dwarf codex before being discontinued.
The only thing that I think will save sisters is that they put them in such a central role in the main fluff.

>> No.19820649

>>19820603
>It would have to be millions for it to make any sense even in the slightest, but I don't trust GW's sense of scale any further than I can define it.

Very true. And considering the billions of worlds the Imperium controls, it makes a lot of sense. My take on it is that the GW writers have a hard time talking about small elite forces and then using the word "millions" to describe them. I could be wrong and the writers could really be that stupid but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

>> No.19820673

>>19820541
Of course he's butthurt. Pretty much every army in the game is becoming second banana to overstated and overpowered twats dressed in tin. I'd take a sisters army over a GK army anyday. Better yet, why not just have an inquisition list and be done with it?

>> No.19820680

>>19820636
The real guy retired way back you probably saw one his clones.

>> No.19820716

>>19820673
>Of course he's butthurt.

Why? Because of fluff in a game? That's not something to get butthurt over.

>Pretty much every army in the game is becoming second banana to overstated and overpowered twats dressed in tin.

Hardly.

>I'd take a sisters army over a GK army anyday.

So?

>Better yet, why not just have an inquisition list and be done with it?

Do that then, nobody's compelling you to buy Grey Knights.

>> No.19820727

>>19820673
Sisters would sell even less than they do now if you threw them in with the gk codex

>> No.19820755

>>19820716

>Pretty much every army in the game is becoming second banana to overstated and overpowered twats dressed in tin.

>Hardly.

Confirmed for Space Marine player.

>> No.19820764

>>19819710
>They can't take any allies, thats pretty damn huge.

To be fair, Nids aren't exactly a foe that can be reasoned and/or allied with, especially when the only form of contact most people have is with the receivers (I.E., basic Nid troops) and not the one(s) in actual command.

>> No.19820765

I wish they'd get rid of SoB so we can have squats again. Whole army is a joke.

>> No.19820778

>>19820765
Can we get rid of the tau first?

hardly anyone plays them.

>> No.19820781

>>19820541
Like much of 40k, GK fluff is mostly an assortment of things that a 13-year old would find SO AWESOME. But there's just so much of that in there that it sort of creates a singularity of stupid.
The blood tide is just an extra egregious example because it shits over another army for pretty much no reason at all. It's probably supposed to show just how super-serious GKs are about demon purging, but the whole scenario is just incredibly artificial. The whole point of GKs is that they're supposed to be nearly immune to corruption to begin with, nothing there suggests that they'd be more susceptible to being corrupted (after all most of the Sororitas managed to resist as well) and there's also no precedent for the whole blood-ritual stuff to ward against corruption to begin with.
So in the end you just have the GKs slaughter a bunch of women to bathe in their 'innocent' blood (which also makes for some hella weird undertones, but that's yet another topic) for no adequately explained reason. As a matter of fact it pretty much makes GKs appear less capable just so we can see some Sisters being slaughtered.

In retrospect it seems I am in fact kinda butthurt about it, but it's also hilariously bad writing.

>> No.19820784

>>19820541
>>GK fluff is fucktarded
>I think you're just butthurt.

Nah. He's right, it's stupid. I realize most Spess Muhreen shit is, but the GK especially.

>> No.19820792

>>19819533
>>19819979

Either way, its pretty fucking sad that the best thing that ever happened to them in a book was meeting Cain.

>> No.19820803

>>19820765
And Biker Dwarves from Space aren't?

>> No.19820818

All the space nazis are fucking beyond stupid. I have no idea why anyone even bothers with them other than POWER ARMOR, SO COOOOOOL.

>> No.19820819

>>19820803

I would buy that army in a heartbeat.

>> No.19820830

>>19820803

thatsthejoke.png

Though sad fact of the matter is that Squats (being a joke army) would still better than SoB.

Trufax.

>> No.19820848

>>19820830
Why do you hate women?

Are you a misogynistic pig?

>> No.19820891

>>19820755
confirmed hemorrhoids

Necrons and Dragon Dildo Eldar say hi

>> No.19820957

>>19820781
Its just the GKs way of dealing with the fact that they don't have penises.

>> No.19820974

>>19820781
>The blood tide is just an extra egregious example because it shits over another army for pretty much no reason at all.

How? It's a positive portrayal of the Sisters if anything, but it doesn't matter, Codex grey Knights is there to glorify the Grey Knights and not other armies.

>The whole point of GKs is that they're supposed to be nearly immune to corruption to begin with, nothing there suggests that they'd be more susceptible to being corrupted

Except the Bloodtide is something they haven't faced before, so they take precautions.

>there's also no precedent for the whole blood-ritual stuff to ward against corruption to begin with

The Grey Knight's ammo is consecrated with the blood of the pure, such blood has shown to have negative effects on daemon shit.

>So in the end you just have the GKs slaughter a bunch of women to bathe in their 'innocent' blood (which also makes for some hella weird undertones, but that's yet another topic) for no adequately explained reason.

Besides the whole protection thing.

>As a matter of fact it pretty much makes GKs appear less capable just so we can see some Sisters being slaughtered.

It shows that the Grey Knights are willing to kill innocents.

>> No.19820979

>>19820891
Orks, nids, eldar, tau and (possibly)daemons wave in response

>> No.19820982

>>19820604
I doubt Ecclesiarchy hates a monodominant witch hunter.

>> No.19821013

You mon-keigh don't even realize that your so called Blood Tide is nothing but monomolecular machines used the Blood Thirsty One.

>> No.19821039

>>19820982
Have you even read his fluff?

>Despite this Karamazov had earned the undying enmity of the Ecclesiarchy

>> No.19821041

>>19820974
>How? It's a positive portrayal of the Sisters if anything, but it doesn't matter, Codex grey Knights is there to glorify the Grey Knights and not other armies.

If you're this impenetrably fucking stupid then it's really no use talking to you. That doesn't GLORIFY the GK, it makes them seem inept and stupid, while simultaenously shitting on the Sisters. It cheapens them both; no one gets anything out of it except Ward who now gets to beat off furiously at night knowing that his weird snuff fantasies are canon. Ugh.

>> No.19821054

>hurr Ward snuff fetishist why you haet sisters WAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRDDDDD

Having their blood used in an anti-daemon ritual is nothing compared to this:

>The potent weapon had been gifted to him personally by Erebus after the 13th’s heroics upon the stinking deathworld of Jagata VII, when the Coterie had brought down the defences of a war shrine of the Adepta Sororitas, ensuring a crushing victory against the hated sisters holed up there. Every last sister had been stripped of their armour and their flesh ritually debased before being staked out around the outskirts of the defiled shrine, their bloodied forms affixed to crosses hammered into the earth. There they were left to perish, vast swarms of blood-sucking insects rising from the surrounding death-marshes and descending upon them. Their screams had been sweet music to Sabtec that night.
- Dark Creed

>> No.19821073

>>19821054
It's not space marines doing it. Ward can't beat off to that.

>> No.19821107

>>19821041
>If you're this impenetrably fucking stupid then it's really no use talking to you.

You sound mad, sir. Please step away from the internet and take a few deep breathes.

>That doesn't GLORIFY the GK, it makes them seem inept and stupid

How so? They have a plan and the plan works, the fact that they intentionally killed innocents makes them ruthless, but not incompetent.

>while simultaenously shitting on the Sisters.

They don't get shit on, they are made out to be incredibly pure and are even described as valiant.

>It cheapens them both; no one gets anything out of it except Ward who now gets to beat off furiously at night knowing that his weird snuff fantasies are canon.

No, stop, if this was Wards fetish he'd stretch it out, but he doesn't, the Grey Knights kiss earth and then cut down the Sisters. It's over quickly and with scarcely any detail on the act.

>> No.19821153

>>19821039
Was that in Codex Witch Hunters? I don't much care for Wardian fluff.

>> No.19821185

>>19821153
>Was that in Codex Witch Hunters?

Yes.

>I don't much care for Wardian fluff.

Well it's not mentioned in Ward's Codex: Grey Knights, so I think you must care for it more than the rest of the fluff.

>> No.19821232

>>19821185
Well ya got me.

>> No.19821279

>complaining about 40K fluff being filled with retardation and grimdark to the point of silliness

It's like complaining about a toddler jamming a dime up his nose. That's just kind of what they do, because nobody at GW knows any better. At least after a few years the toddler will wise up, which is more than you can say in this case.

>> No.19821290

>>19821107
>How so? They have a plan and the plan works, the fact that they intentionally killed innocents makes them ruthless, but not incompetent.

You need to keep in mind that the author has complete control over the framework of this story. There would have been dozens of ways to make the same point (re: ruthlessness) without having it appear this arbitrary. For a simple, much less problematic example: Use the most faithful Sisters as a bait (because the lead daemon wants them dead or w/e) and call in an orbital bombardment on them at the right moment.
The thing about capability is mostly with regards to the GKs theroretical incorruptibility. After all they undergo all kinds of rigurous conditioning and modification and whatehaveyou to be maximum resistant. And with having uncorrupted Sisters (i.e. devoted, but unaugmented normal humans) right there there's nothing the GKs would have to fear. The author essentially shows that the GKs are afraid that even with all their rituals and preparation they can't accomplish what even mostly normal humans manage. And incidentally the only solution to this is making hats out of them. It's just incredibly contrived.

>They don't get shit on, they are made out to be incredibly pure and are even described as valiant.

What matters here is their eventual fate. The ultimate lesson of the story is that even if the Sisters have a quality that apparently goes above and beyond what the GKs are capable of the only thing they're ultimately good for is being ground up and literally be used to make the GKs even more awesomer.
Being pure isn't the Sisters' only quality, they are a veritable fighting force of their own. But once the GKs turn up they aren't even allowed to fight back using their own skill, they are reduced to just a physical ingredient for making the GKs stronger.

>> No.19821298

>>19821107
>You sound mad, sir. Please step away from the internet and take a few deep breathes.
Oh lord: enough, you faggot. Acting like a pod-person isn't helping your argument.

>How so? They have a plan and the plan works, the fact that they intentionally killed innocents makes them ruthless, but not incompetent.
From all the lore preceding it and following it it's contextualized as unnecessary and just gratiutous bolterbitch killin' and completely dismantles the idea of them being austere, stoic warrior-monks into yet more RAAAHHH PURGE THE UNCLEAN space retards that 40k already has too many of.

>They don't get shit on, they are made out to be incredibly pure and are even described as valiant.
They're instagibbed and torn apart like red shirts and reduced to clothes for another (better!) chapter. I don't mean to be one of THOSE guys but the only way they could've gotten it any worse is if they'd been raped on top of it.

>> No.19821438

>>19821290
>For a simple, much less problematic example: Use the most faithful Sisters as a bait (because the lead daemon wants them dead or w/e) and call in an orbital bombardment on them at the right moment.

How is that not as arbitrary?

>The thing about capability is mostly with regards to the GKs theroretical incorruptibility. After all they undergo all kinds of rigurous conditioning and modification and whatehaveyou to be maximum resistant. And with having uncorrupted Sisters (i.e. devoted, but unaugmented normal humans) right there there's nothing the GKs would have to fear. The author essentially shows that the GKs are afraid that even with all their rituals and preparation they can't accomplish what even mostly normal humans manage. And incidentally the only solution to this is making hats out of them. It's just incredibly contrived.

The Grey Knights ammunition is covered in the same sort of blood because it has anti-daemonic properties. This isn't just an ass pull, and it shows that the Grey Knights are cautious. Chaos is a massively varying threat, just because they've proven incorruptible so far doesn't mean they should just blunder into things without trying to find some sort of additional protection.

>What matters here is their eventual fate.

No, everyone dies eventually, but that's not all that matters.

>The ultimate lesson of the story is that even if the Sisters have a quality that apparently goes above and beyond what the GKs are capable of the only thing they're ultimately good for is being ground up and literally be used to make the GKs even more awesomer.

They are shown to be exceptional, the fact is that the Grey Knights steal the show is because it's codex Grey Knights.

>> No.19821445

>>19821438
>Being pure isn't the Sisters' only quality, they are a veritable fighting force of their own.

Yes, and they "fight valiantly."

>But once the GKs turn up they aren't even allowed to fight back using their own skill

Because the story isn't about them, it is about the Grey Knights and their methods.

>> No.19821457

Well I have to say, this is all terrible.

>> No.19821495

I don't understand the whole 'blood of innocent sisters' thing.

GK armour and weaponry is already sanctified in the blood of innocents. Furthermore, they're covered in anti-chaos inscriptions (down to the bone) and have weird faith magic protecting them. Why would they need MOAR innocent blood? This is the point at which caution becomes stupidity.

Sisters have the whole acts of faith things going for them, but this only works when the Sisters are there in force and - this bit is the really important part - alive.

I don't have a problem with GKs killing allies if it gives them some boon (this is 40K, after all), but this doesn't seem to grant them any advantage they don't already have. It just makes them look like retards.

>> No.19821498

>>19821298
>Oh lord: enough, you faggot. Acting like a pod-person isn't helping your argument.

Deep breaths.

>From all the lore preceding it and following it it's contextualized as unnecessary and just gratiutous bolterbitch killin' and completely dismantles the idea of them being austere, stoic warrior-monks into yet more RAAAHHH PURGE THE UNCLEAN space retards that 40k already has too many of.

They've been team-killers for ages and I don't see how killing some 'clean' people and using sorcery makes them more "RAAAHHH PURGE THE UNCLEAN space retards"

>They're instagibbed and torn apart like red shirts and reduced to clothes for another (better!) chapter

They're killed in an off hand manner because how they die isn't relevant. And Codex Grey Knights isn't the place for them to be propped up.

>I don't mean to be one of THOSE guys but the only way they could've gotten it any worse is if they'd been raped on top of it.

Would you be this mad if it was a bunch of Guardsmen that got culled? Or are you just an angry white knight that can't see women die?

>> No.19821518

>>19821495
>Sisters have the whole acts of faith things going for them, but this only works when the Sisters are there in force and - this bit is the really important part - alive.

They don't need to be alive, as you mentioned before, Grey Knights already use blood, but that doesn't need to be in a still living person to retain its properties. there's also the remains of Saints and the like.

>> No.19821521

>>19821438

I'm gonna agree with your opponent. It's a case of taking something beyond its extreme and on into silly season, and to the detriment of the group you're trying to talk up. The GKs, who are supposedly incorruptible, face a threat alongside pious regular human beings who are apparently strong enough to resist said threat, and instead of them thereby being all the stronger, they slaughter that ally out of FEAR (an emotion supposedly unknown to SMs) of potential corruption maybe, then reduce them to glorified body paint. So what if they save the day at the end; they've been reduced from "incorruptible" to "Barbie Dress-Up: Demon-Fighter Edition", cowards that hide behind the blood of innocents when by all rights they should be 1,000 times more incorruptible than that which they sacrificed.

Let's give a hypothetical example, and see your take: let's say that the Space Wolves were renowned masters of wolf-taming. No one can out-wolf the Wolves, save this ONE Fenrisian clan that can tame even the most un-tameable wolf. Now, what do the Space Wolves do? Do they learn the secrets of this clan to augment their own abilities, or redouble their efforts and outdo them in the end? No, they kill the whole fucking clan, wear their heads as codpieces, and suddenly they're DOUBLE WOLF-CHARMERS.

Silly, no?

>> No.19821546

>>19821498
>Would you be this mad if it was a bunch of Guardsmen that got culled?

Did they kill the guardsmen from the outset, do a ritualized dance in the remains, and then go fight the daemons, or did they regrettably have to purge their erstwhile allies after a daemon incursion? Because the distinction matters.

>> No.19821551

>The Grey Knights ammunition is covered in the same sort of blood because it has anti-daemonic properties. This isn't just an ass pull, and it shows that the Grey Knights are cautious. Chaos is a massively varying threat, just because they've proven incorruptible so far doesn't mean they should just blunder into things without trying to find some sort of additional protection.

You literally missed his entire point, dude. His point was that if the Grey Knights are so much better and more incorruptible than the Sisters, and yet a good number of Sisters remained pure in the face of overwhelming Chaos corruption, then the Bloodtide should have had no effect on the Grey Knights, thus negating the need for the protection of innocent blood. You can say they were "just being careful" all you want, but the fact remains that according to the "rules" set up by the author, the whole act was unnecessary and in fact was more than a little ridiculous.

Also, has nobody noticed that the Bloodtide happened twice? "The Bloodtide Awakens" occurred in 034.M38 according to the new rulebook, followed by "The Bloodtide Returns" in 876.M41.

>> No.19821555

>-A whole shrine-world of Sisters killed by Chaos Dreadnought. Said dread shrugs off meltas, meltabombs and multiple Exorcist volleys, a Living Saint even gives up her divinity to stop it, and fails. It's destroyed instantly when a Marine throws a hammer at it. We are not making this shit up.

Can someone site this one?

>> No.19821562

>>19821518
Uh, no, the weird blessing magic that seems to work in 40K doesn’t require stuff to be alive, but the actual acts of faith that make the sisters famous do.

Look it up. The faith powers sororitas get are basically the result of them all believing fervently and furiously together in the same place. It’s like a Waaaagh. Once they’re dead they’re not generating the gestalt effect anymore.

So, yeah, since they already have the blood of martyrs and innocents and the like smelted into their armour, and the gestalt faith powers sisters generate only happen when there’s loads of them around and they’re alive… the GKs basically seem to have just gone fullretard.jpg and forgotten that they already have the purest magical faith blood around protecting them. It really does make them seem very incompetent.

>> No.19821586

>>19821546
This, so much fucking this. Team-killing allied Imperial forces after a battle to neutralize any further threat of corruption is in fact perfectly reasonable given the threat level and the Grey Knights' secretive modus operandi. /tg/ has never really had a problem with that.

Killing them during a battle to fuel blood magic of a type hitherto seen ONLY around Khornate devotees is contradictory and stupid, and reeks of bad writing. /tg/ is monstrously enraged by this.

>> No.19821609

>>19821107
Mary I know you feel the need to defend your shitty fanfiction but doing it on an anonymous image board where everyone already know what a shitty writer you are won't help. Come back after a few writing classes and you might understand why your GK fluff is so horrible.

>> No.19821626

>>19821586
>seen ONLY around Khornate devotees
actually, spilling the blood of the pure for the purpose of staving off daemons has been in 40k for years

it's also something that had some weight in history, too

>not to mention the way the Imperium treats most of their holy figures (tearing them into tiny bits and glueing them to trinkets to use the lingering power left in the remains)

>> No.19821648

>>19821521
The resistance of Sisters is different than that of the Grey Knights, one is from faith so strong that it can cause miracles, the other is all manner of arcane protections and an iron will. The Bloodtide is no ordinary daemonshit, but a corrupted weapon from the DAoT.

>and instead of them thereby being all the stronger, they slaughter that ally out of FEAR

It doesn't say they were afraid, they just took precautions.

>(an emotion supposedly unknown to SMs)

Just suppressed.

>
Let's give a hypothetical example, and see your take: let's say that the Space Wolves were renowned masters of wolf-taming. No one can out-wolf the Wolves, save this ONE Fenrisian clan that can tame even the most un-tameable wolf. Now, what do the Space Wolves do? Do they learn the secrets of this clan to augment their own abilities, or redouble their efforts and outdo them in the end? No, they kill the whole fucking clan, wear their heads as codpieces, and suddenly they're DOUBLE WOLF-CHARMERS.

Do they need to tame wolves better? Do they have the time to study the clan, or is time of the essence?

>> No.19821652

>>19821609
I mean Matt

>> No.19821657

>>19821551
The Grey Knights may have already been able to resist the Bloodtide's warping effects without any fancy blood magic. But to march into its very heart and banish it? Perhaps they needed the extra help.

>> No.19821667

>>19818892
Actually, there are the two SOB novels. Faith & Fire and Hammer & Anvil

>> No.19821703

>>19821657
>>19821551
The time in the codex was the first time we know of when the Grey knights interacted with it. The first time it was unleashed was by Kernax Voldorius and he killed billions it.

>> No.19821716

>>19821652
We know who you meant. 'Mary' is a perfectly legitimate sobriquet for that faggot here.

>> No.19821775

Nothing said that the Grey Knights would be corrupted by the Bloodtide, just that it was a risk and that by taking the blood of the Sisters there was no longer any risk. Why not throw on a bulletproof vest?

>> No.19821788

That bloodtide shit was horrible because it made Grey Knight's seem like a poor man's version of the SoB while simultaneously shitting all over the SoB.

Oh yeah and the snuff part too, I guess.

>> No.19821801

>>19821775
Because in a book meant to glorify YOU, the bulletproof vest seems to be better than you in ever single way at a third of the points and intended or not you come off as a petty faggot for backstabbing those better than you at what you're MADE to fucking do. It's such a fucking clusterfuck and just horrible, horrible writing, Matt.

>> No.19821824

>>19821788
>That bloodtide shit was horrible because it made Grey Knight's seem like a poor man's version of the SoB while simultaneously shitting all over the SoB

How? The Grey Knights were able to banish the daemon, something the Sisters couldn't do, and the Sisters were said to be pure and valiant.

>Oh yeah and the snuff part too, I guess.

How is it snuff at all?

>> No.19821854

>>19821438
>How is that not as arbitrary?
I meant arbitrary with regards to the specific nature of their demise. And it's really just meant to illustrate that there are lots of workable scenarios that wouldn't be nearly as problematic.

Which leads me back to the overarching point, which is more meta in nature. It's not really about whether the GK's actions in that scenario made sense or not, it's why this scenario occured in the first place when the author has complete control. As you've said yourself, the codex is about the GKs first and foremost, so why include the Sisters at all? They play a comparatively tiny part in the fluff and after they've been all but divorced from the Inquisition so there's really not much that links them to the Grey Knights.
I'll try to express this another way: Imagine you're the author and you want to write a story to illustrate the ruthlessness of the GKs in the course of their duty. Okay, so you settly for having them end up having to kill some people even though the victims have shown themselves to be completely pure. There are a huge number of ways to achieve this. Yet for some reason you decide to construct a scenario where the GKs (which you are supposed to glorify) need some extra special protection and that the only way to get it is to pretty much bathe in the blood of the aforementioned pure people. This is just an incredibly specific and arbitrary way to do this. That the victims are are a group entirely composed of women just makes things extra weird. The result is a story that muddles the inital point and appears to place more emphasis on the GKs methods rather than the motivation.
At this point it's really not surprising that readers will be put off and start to question the author's motivation.

Oh man, I'm writing way too many words on bad 40k fluff.

>> No.19821870

>>19821801
>Because in a book meant to glorify YOU, the bulletproof vest seems to be better than you in ever single way

How? Some of the Sisters got corrupted, and all of them were getting their asses kicked by Daemons. They Grey Knights remained totally uncorrupted and kicked the Daemon's asses and dispatched the Sisters. Seems to me the Grey Knights are the superior force.

>intended or not you come off as a petty faggot for backstabbing those better than you at what you're MADE to fucking do.

Nothing said they back stabbed them, or did killed them for petty reasons. The Sisters were dying, the Grey Knights won.

>It's such a fucking clusterfuck and just horrible, horrible writing, Matt.

I honestly don't see it, nothing in warhammer is great, but I can't see why people get so mad at this piece of fluff.

>> No.19821873

>>19819673
I think it's more the fact that Furry space dumbasses who live on a world 90% uninhabitable can magically fight off an army much bigger than theirs.

Don't give me the excuse that Space wolves are good at fighting, they're combat doctrine is based around running up CLOSE on wolves and hitting things.

Battle sisters Doctrine is killing things with CLOSE RANGED weapons designed to fight whirling dumbasses flapping their mutated dog dicks around.

>> No.19821911

>>19821775
>Why not throw on a bulletproof vest?

It's a Batman comic. Batman's going up against new supervillain Bulletstorm, whose entire shtick is "hose them down with endless lead". Batman's suit may be MOSTLY bulletproof, but not necessarily completely. Superman, however, is both completely bulletproof and in the neighborhood.

Sane answer: Work together. Use Superman as a human shield and wade in behind him. Or Supes acts as a distraction, while you disable Bulletstorm.

Ward answer: "Break out the kryptonite skinnin' knife, Alfred, I needs me a Superman suit."

>> No.19821935

>>19819853
I know we've said before that the worst game would have 40k's "he who shall not be named" as Fluff-writer and WotC's Monte Cook as rules writer.

But is there an opposite? Is there a GOOD fluff writer or rules maker for either system...and what would the game be like if they teamed up (and fought crime)?

>> No.19821936

>>19821911
The best part is, how the fuck is Sister blood magically pure?

Is Purity of thought and belief like cholesterol or some shit?

>> No.19821967

>>19821667

Are they any good?

>> No.19821982

>>19821936
Midichlorians.

>> No.19821983

>>19821873

They not only devised the Longfang cannon, they then mated it to the Land Raider. A Space Wolf is made for killing. They'll kill you from down the block if need be, but they're happiest when they're tearing your throat out and get to watch the light go out of your eyes.

The Fang is studded with orbital rape CANNONS, not really, really fucking long chainswords.

>> No.19821998

How's the 6th edition for the boyz?

>> No.19822002

>>19821935

The sisters WD dex was nearly perfect. AFAIK Ward wrote the fluff and Cruddace wrote the rules. No, I'm not joking.

>> No.19822007

>>19821854
>And it's really just meant to illustrate that there are lots of workable scenarios that wouldn't be nearly as problematic.

I don't see how the situation is at all problematic.

>As you've said yourself, the codex is about the GKs first and foremost, so why include the Sisters at all?

To show that the Grey Knights are not nice guys, but not to focus on it.

>They play a comparatively tiny part in the fluff and after they've been all but divorced from the Inquisition so there's really not much that links them to the Grey Knights.

Just as much as Guardsmen and Space Marines, who also appear along side the Grey Knights.

>There are a huge number of ways to achieve this.

And this way is no worse than the others.

>Yet for some reason you decide to construct a scenario where the GKs (which you are supposed to glorify) need some extra special protection and that the only way to get it is to pretty much bathe in the blood of the aforementioned pure people.

They are glorified, but it is their skills in sorcery and preparedness and not their purity in this example.

>This is just an incredibly specific and arbitrary way to do this.

As would any other fictional story be, it's all set up so that specific things happen.

>That the victims are are a group entirely composed of women just makes things extra weird.

Why does that matter at all?

>The result is a story that muddles the inital point and appears to place more emphasis on the GKs methods rather than the motivation.

There motivation is already clear, why shouldn't we get some of their methods?

>At this point it's really not surprising that readers will be put off and start to question the author's motivation.

Again, why? The Sisters are casually cast off, they hardly matter and are just there to frame the Grey Knights.

>> No.19822009

>One by one, the Death Guard were afflicted with a plague so virulent that even their multi-lung and oolitic kidney failed to protect them. They remained conscious but were paralyzed and helpless to do anything other than endure the burning pain that filled their bodies. Only their unquenchable instinct for survival preserved them.

>That instinct was pushed to its very limit, and then the background hum of the warp shield generators died and was replaced by a distant vibration that grew steadily more intense. Suddenly, the sound turned into the buzz of a million wings as countless black, bulbous, Warp-spawned flies poured through every bulkhead. The Destroyer had arrived, foulest of Nurgle’s plagues. The flies swarmed over the paralyzed Death Guard, fed off their sweat, infected their wounds, and infested every orifice.

>Throughout the vessel, the bodies of the Death Guard twitched uncontrollably, as the plague flies laid their eggs inside them. Flesh and armor swelled as the corruption filled the warriors. Their bodies bloated and distended until they burst, leaving entrails hanging from their wracked bodies and pus-filled lesions all over their skin.

Fucking GW, why do you insist on fetishizing the Death Guard?

>> No.19822014

>>19821626
>actually, spilling the blood of the pure for the purpose of staving off daemons has been in 40k for years
I'd appreciate a source for that...I'm fairly well-versed in 40K lore and there's nothing I can recall that mentions that without also mentioning that it's a Chaos ritual.

>>19821648
>The Bloodtide is no ordinary daemonshit, but a corrupted weapon from the DAoT.
Not true, actually. The Bloodtide used by Daemon Prince Voldorius was indeed an archeotech nanite weapon, but the Bloodtide commanded by Ka'jagga'nath was never mentioned to be the same. It's simply a daemonic ocean of blood that corrupts things to Chaos, whereas Voldorius's Bloodtide was purely used to kill.

>> No.19822055

>>19822002
>WD Sisters codex
>nearly perfect
Good Lord, you've got to be shitting me. That piece of crap is "nearly perfect?" Like hell it is.


Get out of here, Ward apologists. We've provided perfectly sound arguments, it's not our fault if you can't stop wanking it to Khornate Knights.

>> No.19822057

>>19821911
But what if Superman had already proven ineffective at combating Bulletstorm and was dying while Batman couldn't get close without getting shot?

What if they were also not friends, Batman didn't care about his life and Bulletstorm was goigng to blow up the whole world if Batman didn't stop him right the fuck now?

>> No.19822072

>>19821873

Aren't space wolves one of those chapters that is massively over strength?

Anyway, the Fang is a very fortified position and Fenris is a deathworld that is almost as dangerous as Catachan, I'm sure plenty of the attackers died to the weather and wildlife.

As a sisters player I don't really find it odd that they lost, you don't attack a space marine chapter with anything less than a full crusade, especially one as old and renowned as the space wolves. It does seem a little out of character for the sisters to attack such an obviously loyal chapter, but I guess they do what the heads of the ecclesiarchy tell them.

>> No.19822093

>>19822007
>And this way is no worse than the others.

And by the sheer number of people who disagree with you, you're wrong. Subjective metrics can only be measured by aggregates. So far, it's just you -vs- everybody else.

>Why does that matter at all?

Game of, by, and for manchildren, multiple instances of fetishization by the playerbase. Don't make me break out the Eldar rape diorama.

>Again, why? The Sisters are casually cast off, they hardly matter and are just there to frame the Grey Knights.

And they do - they frame the Grey Knights as being less pure than the SoB, and unable to stop this menace without teamkilling faggotry. And I'd argue that their normal teamkilling faggotry ISN'T, as it's "purge the tainted". In this case, they were DEMONSTRABLY untainted, otherwise why use their blood at all?

It portrays the GKs as the opposite of their archetype - None Purer.

>> No.19822115

>>19822014
>Not true, actually. The Bloodtide used by Daemon Prince Voldorius was indeed an archeotech nanite weapon, but the Bloodtide commanded by Ka'jagga'nath was never mentioned to be the same. It's simply a daemonic ocean of blood that corrupts things to Chaos, whereas Voldorius's Bloodtide was purely used to kill.

It wasn't the same, obviously. It had likely been changed by Chaos, but it's from the same source. Voldorius awakened it, but it returns with Ka'jagga'nath.

>> No.19822132

>>19822007
MWIDF pls go

>> No.19822142

>>19822055

I was responding to a post talking about the worst game possible being one where Ward writes the fluff and Monte Cook writes the rules.

I meant to say that the sisters WD dex got pretty close with Ward for fluff and Cruddace for rules.

>> No.19822156

I personally believe that many Grey Knights fall to Chaos but are quickly put down by their brothers or that many are killed before they corrupt after a set time of service or just due to the slightest suspicions of those around them. The whole "No Grey Knight has ever fallen" is a lie they have concocted to hide the fact they are deeply flawed. Their zero tolerance for possible corruption policy on anyone who they have fought with is partly to do with keeping their reputation.

>> No.19822158

>>19821870
>How? Some of the Sisters got corrupted, and all of them were getting their asses kicked by Daemons. They Grey Knights remained totally uncorrupted and kicked the Daemon's asses and dispatched the Sisters. Seems to me the Grey Knights are the superior force.

The Grey Knights have equipment that's a thousand times better, carefully pruned and maintained genetics, several lifetimes worth of experience fighting off daemons and corruption (and ONLY daemons and corruption), and are ultimately wholly and entirely engineered for this one purpose. The SoB had NONE of that shit and ultimately did more single-handed than the GK before they decided to kill them and steal their powers and the glory.

They comparatively suck, and that's a PROBLEM in a book meant to deify them. It's not a stretch to say that if the SoB had as much as the GK had to work with, then going by the fluff in this book they would have managed to do better than them even WITHOUT tearing their unguarded dicks off and splashing the blood behind their ears for demon-b-gone.

>> No.19822160

>>19822055

Nearly perfect is stretching it, but it's hardly that bad.

>Problems
Non-scaling faith points
Limited unit and wargear variety (par for the course for WD codexes unfortunately)
Overcosted non-special HQ
Horribly over priced razorbacks instead of immolators
Troop units are probably a little overcosted.

>> No.19822201

>>19822007
>I don't see how the situation is at all problematic.
We know you don't, that's why we're arguing with you. Why did you even write that?

>To show that the Grey Knights are not nice guys, but not to focus on it.
Kinda did focus on it, it was the central point of the entry and the main reason why they succeeded, as poorly thought out and poorly written as it was. We also already know that they're not nice guys, but we never knew they were Khornate devotees as well, which is what it all implies.

>Just as much as Guardsmen and Space Marines, who also appear along side the Grey Knights.
Guardsmen and Space Marines are canonically stated to be the greater bulk of the Imperium's frontline fighting forces. Sisters do see frontline battle every now and again, but that's not their primary function.

>And this way is no worse than the others.
When it turns the Grey Knights into Radicals who use Khornate blood magic against Chaos, yes, it is worse than the others. The point of the Grey Knights is not to be Radical.

>They are glorified, but it is their skills in sorcery and preparedness and not their purity in this example.
Why are the Grey Knights using sorcery? Sorcery is Chaotic, and is forbidden by the Decree of Nikaea. Sorcery is what non-psykers use to manipulate Chaos. It is the tool of heretics, Chaos worshippers, and Radicals. The Grey Knights are none of the above, so why are they using it?

>As would any other fictional story be, it's all set up so that specific things happen.
But it's poorly set up, and self-contradictory within the "rules" that it itself establishes.

>> No.19822215

>>19822201
>Why does that matter at all?
Because unless there was a good reason for it, it's on the same level as a That Guy DM inserting his particular sexual fetishes into a game, i.e. it shouldn't be allowed.

>There motivation is already clear, why shouldn't we get some of their methods?
I agree, but if their methods are self-contradictory, poorly set up, and generally out of place, then they shouldn't be included.

>Again, why? The Sisters are casually cast off, they hardly matter and are just there to frame the Grey Knights.
Again, their inclusion in this particular way breaks the in-universe "rules" that have already been established.

>> No.19822220

>>19822093
>And by the sheer number of people who disagree with you, you're wrong. Subjective metrics can only be measured by aggregates. So far, it's just you -vs- everybody else.

I think it's just white knighting combined with Ward hate and thus people are just getting mad for no real reason.

>Game of, by, and for manchildren, multiple instances of fetishization by the playerbase. Don't make me break out the Eldar rape diorama.

MLP is fetishized, it doesn't mean the writer shares those fetished. Grey Knights killing Sisters could be fetishized, but there is no indication that it was intended to be. If Ward had gone over it in laborious detail I could see it, but their death was a single sentence almost totally devoid of any detail.

>It portrays the GKs as the opposite of their archetype - None Purer.

It does not, Sisters were corrupted while no Grey Knights were, Grey Knights were clearly the purest people there. What it does show is the different methods used to achieve there purity, the Sisters get thereon faith alone, while Grey Knights rely on more esoteric means.

>> No.19822231

How is the latest Chaos Space Marines codex?

I was thinking of making a Sister (loyalist) army using their rules so I could get some mutations to count as faith powers. Besides, Living Saints are little more than Demon Princes for the Emperor.

>> No.19822238

>>19822142
>Ward for fluff and Cruddace for rules
Should have been the other way around.

>> No.19822254

>>19822115
>It wasn't the same, obviously. It had likely been changed by Chaos, but it's from the same source. Voldorius awakened it, but it returns with Ka'jagga'nath.
Speculation and self-made canon. There's nothing actually stated in canon that supports that.

>> No.19822257

>>19822238

I find it quite hilarious

>> No.19822293

>>19822220
>Sisters were corrupted while no Grey Knights were, Grey Knights were clearly the purest people there

Again, GK had equipment and genetics engineered to prevent corruption and were there for like five fucking minutes before deciding LOL LET'S KILL EVERYBODY. SoB had been there much, much longer, and never even CONSIDERED slaying each other to wear their fucking skin, while it was the FIRST idea that the GK had. They slaughtered what should logically be their lesser in daemon-slaying and it was only through the SoB's blood that they managed to do what they did.

Logically speaking, the SoB were clearly purer.

>> No.19822298

ITT: green text and rage

>> No.19822304

>>19822220
>I think

No, you really don't. This thread is proof. You've been shown multiple arguments by multiple people and repeatedly plugged your ears and gone, "LALALALA, IT'S ALL OK, GREY KNIGHTS FLUFF FINE, LALALALA."

>Grey Knights were clearly the purest people there.

Then why did they need Sister blood?

Answer these two simple yes or no questions: Were there Sisters that remained uncorrupted? Would the Grey Knights have remained uncorrupted had they not performed the blood rite?

>> No.19822350

Sisters alone:
- able to resist Bloodtide
- unable to banish Bloodtide

Grey Knights alone:
- able to resist Bloodtide
- unable to banish Bloodtide

Grey Knights anointed with Sister blood:
- able to resist Bloodtide x2
- able to banish Bloodtide

>> No.19822391

What Ward apologists forget is that by using blood sorcery, the Grey Knights are resorting to Radical techniques. Why are the Grey Knights suddenly Radical in their views on Chaos?

>> No.19822395

>>19822350
Actually. It says the first thing they do is to turn on their allies in true khornish fashion. And anoint themselves with their blood.

Then they turn towards their enemies.


It says nothing about them not being able to handle the bloodtide without betraying their supposed allies.


And yes, I know the GK's are to kill all witnesses, but it is kind of RETARDED to kill the allies — who obviously resist the Bloodtide — before it has been defeated. That's on Kharne the Betrayer level of strategic thinking.

>> No.19822411

>>19822350
Exactly as we've been saying, a poorly-conceived idea from a bad fluff writer.

>> No.19822417

>>19822201
>We know you don't, that's why we're arguing with you. Why did you even write that?

Because it's simply not more problematic than any other situation you try to put.

>Kinda did focus on it

The didn't, the killing of the Sisters happened in a single sentence, that showed their ruthlessness, not wearing fancy bling afterwards. Even the talismans of purity aren't wholly necessary as Librarians repel the Bloodtide.

>we never knew they were Khornate devotees as well, which is what it all implies.

Sorcery is antithetical to Khorne.

>Sisters do see frontline battle every now and again, but that's not their primary function.

But they do see frontline battles, so there is no reason not to include them, especially when the Battle occurs on a holy site.

>When it turns the Grey Knights into Radicals who use Khornate blood magic against Chaos, yes, it is worse than the others. The point of the Grey Knights is not to be Radical.

Khorne is not into magic, and the point of the Grey Knights is to be a force against Chaos, they're beyond Radical and Puritan.

>Why are the Grey Knights using sorcery? Sorcery is Chaotic

Sorcery is not Chaotic, it is merely another method of utilizing the power of the warp. Nikea banned the Librarians in the Space Marine Legions. It is also 10k years old.

>But it's poorly set up, and self-contradictory within the "rules" that it itself establishes.

Where does it contradict itself?

>> No.19822427

ITT: people who are shocked when the schoolgirls in a hentai film get raped by tentacles.

"Outrage! Its like, these girls only purpose in this plot is to get abused!"

>> No.19822464

>>19822427
No, more like. "I have this gun here, and I need to kill that guy over there, so I'll shoot my friend here, take his gun, and shoot the badguy with both our guns."

The fact that it is sisters is less important. The reaction would've been the same if it was, say, a group of tallarn raiders who remained pure thanks to faith.

>> No.19822470

>>19822298
SO MUCH THIS.

Seriously, I was going to start getting into the game, but this thread has managed to single-handedly turn me off to the idea. All this going around and around in circles greentexting arguments about a poorly-balanced set of rules and horrifically confusing, inconsistent, and poorly-written fluff makes my head spin.

Great job, gentlemen. I hope you're satisfied.

>> No.19822472

>>19822427

No, it's more:
>Guy A: X is awful.
>Guy B: X is not awful!
>Guy C: Here's 10 reasons why X is awful.
>Guy B: *subjectivity and tap-dancing around X*
>Guys A and B: *facepalm*

>> No.19822484

>>19822254
Ward is the creator of the Bloodtide, Voldorius is behind the first instance of its release. The Bloodtide then returns, it is different than how it is in the Hunt for Voldorius, so we can only assume that it has changed.

>>19822304
>No, you really don't

I do, and what I get from it is a lot of: They were girls and got killed, so Ward has a creepy fetish.

>Then why did they need Sister blood?

Because Grey Knight purity comes from their rituals, not their faith.

>> No.19822494

>>19822417
>Sorcery is antithetical to Khorne.
I think khorne daemons get summoned, and daemon weapons and engines get made by type of sorcery. Other than khorne hates it.

>> No.19822498

>>19822391
It's more interesting than more NONE PURAH.

>> No.19822504

>>19822470

Good. You should know out the gate that it's a lot of argument about silly shit, a bad ruleset that's an excuse to sell minis, and a heaping helping of wank. If that turns you off, then we saved you ALL THE MONEYS.

If you can take it in stride (I'm arguing for the sake of arguing, frankly) and feel like plonking cash on fiddly little mans, then WH40k is for you.

>> No.19822520

>>19822470
If it makes you feel better, most of the people I know irl aren't this autistic about it.

Though threads like these reinforce my belief that this is a game that should only be played with friends.

>> No.19822537

>>19822395
But by killing their allies who were proving ineffective, they were able to win more easily.

>> No.19822586

>>19822395
>Knowledge is power, especially when dealing with the forces of Chaos, and so a Grey Knight Grand Master will think nothing of declaring thousands, even millions, of innocent dead in order to protect that secret. They are not doing it out of malice but because such acts will eventually save billions. By the same token, if slaying their Battle Sister allies provides the pure blood needed to enact a banishing ritual against Warp-spawn, then a Justicar may well order it.

The blood was needed to walk into the heart of the Bloodtide and banish Ka'jagga'nath. I assumed the Grey Knights would have been able to merely resist the Bloodtide's effects to begin with, since that way they don't come across as 'inferior' to the Sisters, as has been complained about in this thread.

>>19822411
Cool counterargument bro.

>> No.19822588

>>19822484
>They were girls and got killed, so Ward has a creepy fetish.

The barest resemblance to that argument has been made twice out of the dozens of posts replying to you. And the ACTUAL argument is, "By making it Sisters instead of someone else and making it pointless and self-defeating, the very passage invites arguments of creepy fetishization."

Also, you gonna answer my yes-no questions, or just continue to rationalize?

>> No.19822592

Ohh gee, I wonder what's on /tg/ at the moment, maybe a SOB thread for me to talk in...

...oh fuck, not this shit again. I can honestly say, as a SOB Player, I Have Stopped Giving a Fuck.

While I wish Sisters didn't job as much as they do, I've stopped being willing to argue about it. This topic needs to just die. Retreading it just makes people dislike SOB players and riles up rage on the SOB player end that should have faded already.

>> No.19822612

>>19822504
>>19822520
Samebro here. I still enjoy painting shit, it's just that I'm not going to shell out ALL THE MONIES for a whole bunch more minis if I'm never going to actually USE them.

That and /tg/ sometimes delivers on writing really good fanwank. Actually, in a lot of ways better than the official wank, from what I can tell.

>> No.19822618

>>19818447
>An entire convent of Sisters killed by Grey Knights, their bodies violated and their blood applied to the Grey Knights' armor, so the Grey Knights can be immune to demonic corruption, even though they were already immune to all forms of demonic corruption, due to the fact that they are the Imperium's daemon killers. See also: Khornate Knights. Alternatively, this can be viewed as a middle finger at the feminists. God-Emperor knows that those are nothing but trouble.

>> No.19822623

It's a sad fucking day in /tg/ history where they take the side of Ward writing about the most Mary Sue of all Spess Muhreens against an army that has pipe organ missile launcher tanks.

Every day is misogyny day.

I bet if they fucking Grey Knights had found, say, an impossibly outmatched Guard regiment who against every possible bit of common sense had held onto their faith in the Emperor and HELD DAT LINE with nothing but grit and determination, and then fucking slaughtered them all themselves and painted their armor with their blood, nobody would be defending it as anything other than shit writing.

>> No.19822642

>>19822623

Yes. Yes. A thousand times yes.

>> No.19822671

>>19822642
Yeah, GK slaughtering Krieg grenadiers would be shitty.

>> No.19822687

>>19822618
Damn, wish I had a Slowpoke reaction image handy...

>> No.19822697

>>19822623
Not it's because /tg/ is outgrowing pointless mouth frothing against ward. Or his fluff, while not the best, isn't faggotrocious. And aside from a few early bumps in Warhammer Fantasty (OP Daemon, and gimped orcs), has proven to be to be a consistent and relatively balanced rules writer.

Basically no point in trying to make him the enemy of /tg/ using buzzwords.

>> No.19822724

>>19822697

...Are...are you serious?

Oh I get it, you're just trolling...right...right?

>> No.19822736

>>19822697
Good point, my spiritual liege!
Seriously, you've been proven wrong (over and over, actually) on the fact that what the GK did IS demonstrably the shittiest course of action, EVEN if you ignore all previous fluff stating them as immune to corruption. Your reply is perpetually YEAH WELL THAT'S JUST, LIKE, YOUR OPINION, MAN. Why should we even bother with you at this point?

>> No.19822751

>>19818447
found the Medusa

>> No.19822758

>>19822724
I hope he's serious, he's right.
There are writers out there far more deserving of the shit Ward gets. Cruddance comes straight to mind.

>> No.19822765

>>19822470
Well for what it's worth, going full neckbeard about 40k fluff is kind of a guilty pleasure. It's not surprising that threads like these are the most popular outlet for this kinda thing. In person most people have the sense to keep it down.

>> No.19822767

>>19818447
well chaos is always ...good

>> No.19822814

>>19822588
>And the ACTUAL argument is, "By making it Sisters instead of someone else and making it pointless and self-defeating, the very passage invites arguments of creepy fetishization."

Why should the fact that it be Sisters matter? The fact that they're female matters not at all.

>Also, you gonna answer my yes-no questions

Okay, but not I'll answer how I choose.

>Were there Sisters that remained uncorrupted?

Yes. At least so far.

>Would the Grey Knights have remained uncorrupted had they not performed the blood rite?

Maybe, it says that they no longer risked corruption, not that they would have been corrupted.

>> No.19822815

>>19822160
I have to diagree with some of those points:

>Non-scaling faith points
Not a real issue as instead we gain a self-replenishing pool. Under the old FOC you usually had only around 4 squads (1 Serpahim, 1 Retributor and 2 Dominions) you needed to buff with their acts. Now with multiple FOCs you can field break it up into two detachments with separate faith pools until a new FAQ addresses this.
>Limited unit and wargear variety (par for the course for WD codexes unfortunately)
I'm a person that finds the SM codex to be practicaly bloated with too many options and lacking focus so it never hurt me so much. Granted, it's an opinion, not an argument. My only problem was the lack of variety in the number of faith acts - one per unit made it a bit monotone to me.
>Overcosted non-special HQ
True. But who really uses them when you have Uriah FUCKING Jacob ?
H>orribly over priced razorbacks instead of immolators
Umm, what ?
>Troop units are probably a little overcosted.
True. While I'm not sure how you should properly price an unit with access to some sweet weapons, a 3+ save, BS 4 and other important stats. Still, taking away all their sweet acts of faith and increasing their price is a bit dickish.

>> No.19822824

>>19822592

Another SoB player, I was hoping to maybe talk about playing them in 6th, what sort of time frame people expect to see the next codex and what the hope to see in it.

Instead we get
>Bloodtide
>Squatted

I seriously could not give a fuck who kills who in whose codex. Watching people argue about it reminds me of teenagers arguing over Naruto or dragon ball characters, it's just retarded.

>> No.19822856

>>19818447
indeed

>> No.19822927

>>19822417
>Because it's simply not more problematic than any other situation you try to put.
Clearly it is, or we wouldn't still be arguing about it.

>The didn't, the killing of the Sisters happened in a single sentence, that showed their ruthlessness, not wearing fancy bling afterwards. Even the talismans of purity aren't wholly necessary as Librarians repel the Bloodtide.
If the Librarians could have repelled the Bloodtide the whole time, then there was no need to slaughter the Sisters at all, which reinforces our argument that it shouldn't have been included. In any case, either the killing of the Sisters was necessary or it wasn't, and being vague about it is poor writing.

>Sorcery is antithetical to Khorne.
Broadly true, but you forget that there are some forms of sorcery that even Khornate worshippers use. Daemon-summoning rituals are sorcery. Blood rituals to invoke Khorne's favor are sorcery. This is also canon.

>But they do see frontline battles, so there is no reason not to include them, especially when the Battle occurs on a holy site.
See the second point.

>Khorne is not into magic, and the point of the Grey Knights is to be a force against Chaos, they're beyond Radical and Puritan.
See the third point. Also, saying that the Grey Knights are beyond Radical and Puritan is just the kind of "omg-super-speshul-Mary-Sue" attitude that we resent so much. Nothing in the Imperium is beyond the Radical or Puritan distinction. If you use Chaos against itself, then you are Radical, and thus on a slippery slope to Chaos corruption. This is why it's stupid to have the Grey Knights be Radical, because their whole point is to be more or less immune to Chaos corruption.

>> No.19822977

>>19822927
>Sorcery is not Chaotic, it is merely another method of utilizing the power of the warp. Nikea banned the Librarians in the Space Marine Legions. It is also 10k years old.
You betray your ignorance of the fluff. The Decree of Nikaea actually allowed for the creation of the Librarium corps among the Space Marines. It outlawed sorcery as being inherently Chaotic. It goes beyond mere psykery. Even non-psykers can practice sorcery; it is almost literally witchcraft in the 40K sense. Also, its age has absolutely nothing to do with it. It still stands as law in the Imperium.

>> No.19822982

>>19822815

Does an extra detachment give us more faith? If so then that's not so bad.
>True. But who really uses them when you have Uriah FUCKING Jacob ?
Whilst he is cool and Celestine are cool, it would be nice if the generic HQ choices didn't cost more points than them whilst being far less effective.
>Horribly over priced razorbacks instead of immolators
In the current rules, immolators are no different at all to razorbacks other than costing more points. In the previous rules this was fine as they could fire the heavy flamer while moving, as well as having a firing hatch at the rear. It was nice having something that helped differentiate them from space marines, more than anything.

>> No.19822991

>>19822815

>Not a real issue as instead we gain a self-replenishing pool.

I'd say the self replenishing is nice but, however, that doesn't stop it's non-scaling being a problem. It leads to a glut of points at 500 and then not enough for any real amount of use at 2000+. Options like that should scale appropriately.

>True. But who really uses them when you have Uriah FUCKING Jacob ?

That is, unfortunately, the crux of the issue. There ISN'T a reason to take them next to Uriah Jacob. Generic HQs should offer something of use.

>> No.19823013

>>19822977
As far as I get it, psychic powers are directly interfacing with the warp and drawing on power yourself, whereas sorcery is like a ritual process that opens up that kind of connection independently.

>> No.19823057

>Truly, the separation between psychic power and black magic exists only in the minds of men and is wholly dependent upon whether the observer views the wonders of the galaxy through the veil of science or sorcery.

>> No.19823064

>>19822724
>>19822736
>>19822758

I'm terribly serious my good anons. I swear by the River Styx that I think ward is not that bad of codex writer.

Pic unrelated.

>> No.19823077

Speaking of actual gameplay, I'm thinking some Imps would make for a good allied detachement? A Primaris Psyker for some psyky shenanigans, some cheap/disposable troops and most importantly a flyer and/or some long-ranged AoE fire support.

>> No.19823113

>.>
<.<

dem sistas

i doubt they will get squated

as to your track record thingy

greater daemons and psychers are fluff wise very powerful so in GWs retarded fluff yea it could happen

the dreadnaught thing...yea kinda stupid XD

>> No.19823114

>>19823077

I had planned the same, until I realized that I couldn't actually put my Sisters in the Valkyrie (I have an Inquisitorial Valk painted up and everything)

Unfortunately, as much as I like Sisters, any 'Adding Guard to Sisters' situation is likely done better with 'Adding Sisters to guard'

>> No.19823168

>>19823077

I was thinking of doing the same, modelling them as Arbites with an Arbite gunship, maybe painting a bastion up as a precinct fortress.

Another idea for allies I had was modelling some Sisters of Silence and counting them as grey knights, taking a storm raven for AA. Not all that fluffy but it would be a fun project.

>> No.19823171

>>19823113
> >.>
> <.<
> XD

You're either new here, or intentionally baiting fa/tg/uys

>> No.19823186

>>19823113
>XD

Get out.

>> No.19823204

>>19823113
>those emoticons

>> No.19823294

>>19823113
> <.<
> XD
> "Dem sistas"

>> No.19823311

>>19823171
it seems to have worked

carry on

>> No.19823335

>>19821873
Holy shit you are retarded.
The Ecclesiarchy showed up because they wanted to investigate the pagan rituals of the Fenrisian people and purge/convert them. Because the Imperial Cult is considered fucking retarded by almost all Chapters, they open fire immediately.

A year later the Ecclesiarchy and three Orders show up to avenge the incident, three weeks later they turn tail realizing they were going to get the shit beat out of them by the Wolves.

>> No.19823369

>>19823294
chill bro o_0

>> No.19823449

>>19823369
Welcome to 4chan
Emoticons are the easiest way to ensure hatred on most boards
Also, you are a cunt

>> No.19823478

>>19823449

nou

>> No.19823654

Oh, Oh - I forgot to mention this earleir: 20 pts for a Heavy Flamer ? What the hell Crudance ? If anything Sister should have them for 50% off.

>> No.19823976

>>19823654
And Sacred Standard is exactly the same as Company Standard.

>> No.19824008

>>19823478
that has not been relevant in a long time, you should lurk moar

>> No.19824030

>>19819695
They have literally zero anti-air. Like, not even the potential of it.

>> No.19824083

>>19819695
This plus Fliers.
You could theoretically run Gargoyles out, shoot, run them off the table, and come back in next turn.

>> No.19824100

I'm a writefag, never a 40k one before, and all this thread has made me want to do is write a good SoB story.

Need something meaty. Something that'll really show how admirable and pure they are. Probably stuck on a planet fighting off something horrendous. Open to suggestions, my knowledge of them is pretty shitty.

>> No.19824281

>>19822160
> Nearly perfect is stretching it, but it's hardly that bad.
Underpowered among the current codices, brain dead choices and dumb down special rules. Even for free it would not be worth the money.

>>Problems
> Non-scaling faith points
Not only it's not scaling, but their use is pretty much pointless

> Limited unit and wargear variety (par for the course for WD codexes unfortunately)
Also half of the said units are really bad. Canoness, Celestials, Penitent Engines, vanilla priests, arco-flageallents... With the new rage rule the repentia might be useable, but I wouldn't hold my horses on that.

> Troop units are probably a little overcosted.
Not "a little". To be on par with the efficiency of the old SoB with the Faith rules, they would need to be around 8-9 points per mini. But knowing that would have needed to have post-elementary school maths skills, what the writers don't have.

The whole codex is horribly boring, with the only valid build being Jacob + Conclave with Crusader and DCA, St Celestine, Seraphims and/or Dominion and Exorcists, plus the mandatory 2 troops units.

>> No.19824301

Sisters need these things to be made awesome.

>Giant Cathedral tank
>Repentia get FNP
>Plastic sisters
>Basic squads get 2 special weapons
>groups of easy, cheap Redeemer priests
>Redeemer special character
>Faiths changed from personal units to arm wide buffs and bonuses, special characters can give special blessings.
>fluff about a new crusade to purge everything making the sisters of battle unite under one unified goal.

Fuck every other group, the sisters of battle are the wild fanatic crusader army that makes the templars look like male versions of them.

>> No.19824312

>>19824301
Basically, sisters are the units that get shit done, the unwashed masses are there to die gloriously for the Emperor and her daughters.

As it should be.

>> No.19824333

>>19824030
If your army lacks Skyfire, then use fortifications until your codex comes out. All the fortifications with weapons have skyfire options for cheap, with lots of shots and good strength.

It's not the ideal solution, but it can work.

>> No.19824346

>>19824100
A planet in the midst of civil war between loyal Imperial citizens and heretic rebels who have lost their faith in the Emperor and decided to abandon the Imperium. Brothers fighting brothers, fathers fighting sons, and despite things getting more and more grim, it's the Sisters that keep the faith strong among the loyalists. They inspire loyalty and devotion through their passion and example, instead of instilling fear and discipline amongst their peers. When the guardsmen see them on the battlefield with them, they're filled with a sense of duty and courage

>> No.19824360

>>19824333
'nids can man them, so they auto shoot at BS2

>> No.19824368

>the Emperor and her daughters.
>Her

HERETIC! NO MERCY FOR THOSE WHO MISSPEAK HIS NAME! BURN!

>> No.19824381

>>19824312
>As it should be.
why would they waste the time when they could just spend the money to make more mahreen codices.

sisters are the least popular faction, even when they were new. it seems they made them to show feminazis that there are human women fighting see, see.

>> No.19824385

>>19824368
It was the Compicator! Foul hereteks wish to bismerch the speech of a devout servant of the Emperor!

>> No.19824386

>>19824381
Because they are the only group to truely grasp the fanatical side of the Imperium.

In all honesty, Fuck the Space Marines, the SoB need a good spot and have the potential to be badass.

>> No.19824405

It wasn't a fucking Chaos Dreadnought.
It was specifically said to not be a Chaos Dreadnought.
It was a Daemon Engine of some sort that the Marines were also unable to stop, and the thrown thunder hammer FREED the daemon and made it WORSE until the Living Saint broke her vow of silence to banish it.
But I wouldn't expect /tg/ to read the fluff it bitches about.

>> No.19824414

that feel when 3 SoB armies showed up at the shop after 6th. they make a good allied contingent.

>> No.19824427

Why doesn't /tg/ just write a SoB codex, balance it well, give it a little fan made fluff and homebrew it?

Play with the rules at your local game store, share them around, be creative.

>> No.19824435

>>19824360
Assuming you meant they can't man them, since otherwise I don't understand what you're saying

But I don't see why Nids couldn't man them, does it say that in the FAQ?


Idk if this got touched on earlier in the thread cause its a long thread, but I just want to ask if anyone else has seen the great anti-charge potential the Sisters have? With the ability to put a Heavy Flamer, a Standard Flamer, and a combi-flamer in each Troop Squad, Seraphim Squads with 4 hand flamers, Dominion Squads with 4 normal flamers, and Retributor squads with any mix of heavy weapons, I see anyone who wants to get into close combat with these girls going through one hell of a nasty Overwatch round.

>> No.19824443

>>19819683

>nids
>underpowered

clearly you have not had drop nids slammed up your ass

>> No.19824459

The Worf Effect..

The Sisters were written as a bunch of no nonsense bad ass battle nuns, in the long history of their order only one single sister had ever fallen to the lure of chaos. and that sister has not been forgotten the incident poured over many times. Their power comes from fanatical faith in the emperor. They existed as a loophole in the charter of the church that they would have no "men" at arms.

since their release they have never been too well received. poor timing that when the gross majority of players had Marines or some variant and the rules were wildly in favor of all manner of smurf the sisters all metal model range, high price point, and moderate tabletop success meant they went on the back burner for some time.

Now whenever a GW writer wants to make a threat seem very powerful they grabb and smack around the Sisters, they are the GW Worf of the imperium. Big bad daemon shows up, first thing it does is slap Worf around to show they are serious. This happens again and again. We all know the IG die in the millions, so we are desensitized to it.

>> No.19824551

>>19824459

This man speak sense. You all could learn from him.

>> No.19824577

>>19824346

On one of a million battlefields sits a lone Guardsman, kneeling over the corpse of his own brother. The bloody combat knife is still in his hand. He looks up from his brutal work to see that all around him, his regiment is falling back, being driven from the field by the heretic dogs his own blood had fallen in with. Expecting nothing but swift death, with all he'd ever fought for being destroyed around him, he holds onto his faith, begging the Emperor to save his world.

And from on high his prayers are answered, as dozens of Seraphim soar down on the battlefield like angels of vengeance, raining cleansing fire on the infidels. Penitent Engines explode from a blasted ruin, their claws opening the traitor armor like so many tin cans as they take them at flank, their pilots singing hymnals to the Emperor's glory as they carve through the lines. A swell of glorious music joins those voices as the bulk of the Sister's force rumbles forward on foot, their mighty Exorcists tanks laying down a righteous storm of fury.

As the traitor filth is pushed back, the Canoness herself steps out of the dust, the fire on her back bathing the guardsman in warmth and light. She orders her Hospitalers to see to his wounds, but he refuses their ministrations, and asks the Canoness if she heard his prayer to save his home.

She smiles, and says "The Emperor heard your prayer, my child. And you are still here." She lifts him to his feet, returning his Lasrifle to his hands. With no hesitation, he charges back into the fray.

>> No.19824581

>>19818627

The IG isn't the target of Ward's incessant addiction to large-scale snuff fapfiction.

>> No.19824626

>>19824551
>>19824459

I do love the sisters though, and it pains me to see them used like this in recent years. I Already have a sprawling army of all metal troop steel legion guardsmen so i don't think I can sink money into building a SOB army unless I came into a serious windfall.

The last straw for me was the grey knights debacle, it was out of character for them, and just made no sense. Seemed like a very juvenile mind had written that bit of fluff and just picked on the sisters as a convenient target. So i just began to refuse to acknowledge the GW fluff on them in the same way that the late WOD fluff writers would start killing off things that they simply did not like in the meta that previous writers made.

IF/When the SOB ever get a new range of models and genuine codex i'll pay attention to them, but for now sadly they are an old fond memory.

>> No.19824755

>>19824577
Could do with expansion. First couple parts read like a battle report. Describe and invoke, don't name.

Otherwise, nice. Like the part at the end.

>> No.19825080

>>19824755

Yeah, I was just trying to get an idea across in one post. I was originally just making an outline for the writefag, but I ended up just tweaking it a bit so it could be a codex-sized scroll blurb.

You could probably reword it as the Guardsman making a personal journal entry with almost no effort.

>> No.19827969

Anyone got some awesome painted Sister minis to show off ?

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