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19816727 No.19816727 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Has anyone broken Allies yet?

>> No.19816772
File: 216 KB, 771x800, 1330410027958.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19816772

2,000 points

>First Primary Detachment
2x Librarian 100
2x 5 scouts w/ sniper rifles 75
3x 3 attack bikes w/ multimeltas 150

>First Allied Detachment
Blood Angels Librarian 100
5 scouts w/ sniper rifles 75

>Second Primary Detachment
2x Librarian 100
2x 5 scouts w/ sniper rifles 75
3x 3 attack bikes w/ multimeltas 150

>Second Allied Detachment
Blood Angels Librarian 100
5 scouts w/ sniper rifles 75
attack bike w/ multimelta 50

> 6 librarians, 30 snipers, 19 multimelta bikes.

>> No.19816821

and I've heard talk of eldar/dark eldar allying into very potent deathstars.

Also you can fit three hundred scoring ork boyz in a 2,000 point battle, not that that's really an allies trick. Just fun.

I think the strongest combinations might come from astartes characters allying with battle brother hordes such as templars, blood claws or Imperial guard combined platoons.

>> No.19816830

>>19816772
That doesn't look so bad. If you want to break psychic lores nids, they can get 17 psykers all with access to the new lores I a single detachment

>> No.19816883

>>19816830
It's the snipers and the antitank that will really make it tick I think. The psykers are there for flexibility as well as buffs for the bikes when possible.

There are better lists though. Even just dropping some of the min/maxing to get the librarians their own bikes would help.

Still... a squad of six librarians marching up the field blasting everything and buffing themselves is rather intimidating.

>> No.19816906
File: 155 KB, 629x966, Slaaneshi daemonette.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19816906

What about this?

1,500
masque 100
3x herald of slaanesh w/ pavine 70
2x 5 daemonettes 70
primaris psyker 70
10 veterans w/ 3 grenade launchers, missile launcher + chimera 155
squadron of 3 devil dogs 360
squadron of 3 leman russ vanquishers 465

Sure it's a one trick pony but it's a hell of a trick.

>> No.19816928

>implying anyone will agree to play with two detachments at 2000

>> No.19817004

>>19816821

When the release new 'Dex and models I'm adding a CE detachment to my DE. Thinking Farseer + Rangers.

>> No.19817032

>>19816928
Doesn't matter its an option that doesn't need opponents consent, just like allies and fortifications

>> No.19817048

>>19817032

Wrong again, anyone can choose to just not play you if you want to be an asshat netlister as you'd know if you'd ever played instead of just theorying everything on the internet.

>> No.19817061

>>19817048

We got a badass over here who hates playing by the rules.

>> No.19817093

>>19816906
What's the trick?If we're talking lashing / pavane to bunch em up for templates, I wouldn't bother. Easier just to take more tanks for more blasts in the first place.

For Maximum butthurt use a CSM Sorc / Daemon herald. I'm thinking you can use both in the same turn to move shit all over the place.

I'm thinking you mean Demolisher's insteat of Vanquisher too?

>>19816928
I think most tournaments will just be 1999 anyway.

Fortifications are going to cause such assagony. Can't wait to see what retarded inverted pyramid bastions, and the Fortress of Solitude is just ridiculous.

>> No.19817127

I can see 6 vendettas and 2 stormtalons/ravens being a thing soon.

>> No.19817145

>>19817127
New Forgeworld Aeronautica book is legal for normal games. Should even the playing field with AA and fliers for everyone.

Except Tyranids and Sisters, lel

>> No.19817158

>>19817145
Is the a scan out yet?

>> No.19817178
File: 79 KB, 800x680, iaa1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19817178

>>19817158
Ships on the 27th. Can view the contents page on the FW site, looks good.

Sorry it's so small, all that's available

>> No.19817195

>>19817178
>Imperial Navy

Arvus and Aquila Lander were for Sister before.

>> No.19817204

>>19817178
Cool, I hope the barracuda gets a shot in the arm and a points cost decrease.

>>19817195
In previous IA books, imperial navy stuff could be used by any imperial faction.

>> No.19817226

>>19817178
I love how the 'nids continue to get nothing that can actually reliably hit a flyer.

>> No.19817241

>>19817032
It's after you hit 2000 points you can take another primary detachment, not when you're building up to it.

>> No.19817264

Someone please explain all this shit to me.

>> No.19817289

>>19817264
Allies: You can include units from 1 other army in your own list. You must take 1 HQ and 1 troop. You may then include 0-1 Elite, Fast Attack, Heavy or Troops choice. There are varying degrees of compatibility between armies, ranging from Brothers in Arms in which they're treated exactly as members of your own army to Desperate Allies, in which they're effectively enemy units that you're able to control. While you might think this would allow for interesting synergies between armies, in most cases it's been completely nerfed to the point of uselessness save that every Tau army is now going to have a Farseer or a block of terminators.

>> No.19817295

Oh yeah, Sisters can use Imperial Navy assets. Just nothing custom to them

Also note that the Tyranid flyer is a superheavy, so won't help outside of Apocalypse

>> No.19817353

>>19817295
Technically only marines get their own flyers in the Imperium.

>> No.19817392

Anyone thought of solutions to Flyer heavy lists for DE? Aegis is not in character so perhaps take War Walkers?

>> No.19817425

>>19817289

So are you trying to tell me that Tau are viable now?

>> No.19817440

>>19817425
12 firewarriors being assaulted will fire 48 shots at BS1. A Farseer nearby to cast Guide will make them twin-linked. You do the math.

>> No.19817460

>>19817440

>12

>48

What have I missed here?

>> No.19817465

>>19817425
Very much so.

Broadsides have gone from fucking disgusting to unfuckingbelievable against vehicles.

Fire Warriors got a sizable boost from the new rapid fire rule, and they can kill light vehicles very easily instead of just stun-locking them.

Crisis Suits got nerfed, but not horribly so. Taking a suicide Ethereal is actually not a terrible idea because Preferred Enemy gives re-rolls to shooting. Assuming you have a bonding knife in every squad, you can reliably keep a metric fuckton of Fire Warriors with twin-linked on the board and kick ass.

>> No.19817469

2500 Points
2x Melta CCS w/ Chimera
4x Melta Vets w/ Chimera
4x Manticores
2x Squadrons of 3 Hydras

Don't even need allies to break it, and with the new rules for blasts effecting vehicles manticores are the best anti-transports in the game, and can potentially kill AV 14 tanks, while Hydras can rape the skies.

>> No.19817480

>>19817469
>Manticores
>not atrocious with vehicles being soft as fuck

What world are you living in? If you don't get 1st turn you'll be lucky to have 1 left.

>> No.19817488

>>19817465

I just spit out what I was drinking. You owe me a new keyboard.

>> No.19817496

>>19817488
Your fault for having no self control.

Some motherfucker just pulled the suicide Ethereal trick on me today, actually.

>> No.19817502

>>19817469
>6th ed
>running Chimeras

Hahaha oh wow. Can't wait for all the MechVet fags to play against real armies and watch that shit evaporate.

>> No.19817544

>>19817440

Isn't Guide for Eldar units only the same way Markerlights are for Tau units only?

Maybe you're thinking of doom?

>> No.19817558

>>19817544
I think you can guide any friendly non-vehicle unit.

>> No.19817621

I have the codex with. It explicitly says:

Guide: The Farseer's prophetic powers warn him of the enemy's foul intent, allowing him to direct the fire of his warriors. Nominate one Eldar unit with a model within 6" of the Farseet. This unit re-rolls any failed to hit rolls in that turn's shooting phase. If the unit is using a guess range weapon, you may reroll the scatter dice instead.

Yeaaaah. You're talking about Doom, which allows the farseer to target any non-vehicle unit within 24", and that unit gets to reroll to wound until the start of the next turn.

>> No.19817632

>>19817558
No, it specifies in the codex: Cast on Eldar units not Friendly units. It cant be cast on anything else, not even Dark Eldar.

>> No.19817644
File: 274 KB, 873x627, angelsofdeath.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19817644

Seems the place to ask, I'm thinking of doing Dark Angels. Specifically Ravenwing, with a unit of 10 assault marines and the rest Deathwing. Apparently combat squading multiple land speeders is good now? Anybody have a consensus on speeders?

>> No.19817647

>>19817644
>Ravenwing
>good

I've yet to see this proven.

>> No.19817657

>>19817647

>Jink

>> No.19817668

>>19817657
>5+

Take 20 of them.

>> No.19817672

>>19817668
I thought jink was 4++

>> No.19817673

>>19817668

Rumour abounds that they will get a special 'Astartes' version in the new Dex.

>> No.19817688

>>19817469
Chimeras are far easier to kill, meltaguns are not that useful now that rapid fire weapons can move and shoot at full range, manticores need 1 weapon destroyed to knock all their missiles out of order and hydras are BS1 vs. anything that isn't a flyer, flying MC or a skimmer.

>> No.19817696
File: 98 KB, 851x868, enlarged a bit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19817696

>>19817178
Enlarged it to be somewhat readable.

>> No.19817697

>>19817647
Just wait til speeders get flakk shells and skyfire.

>> No.19817698

>>19817673
Why am I not surprised?

>> No.19817705

>>19817672
4 up, 5 up, who gives a shit. There are plenty of units that can do enough damage to bring down their effectiveness. The new allocation rules means the first things to die are going to be those special weapons.

Lootas, Bladestorm, Executioners, dakkapreds, dev squads with plasma cannons, Thousand Sons, Sternguard, I could keep going.

Ravenwing are not that good.

>> No.19817714

>>19817697
If they give my HWTs flakk shells I won't give a FUCK.

>> No.19817717

>>19817668
Something that looked interesting

Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing
The Masters Land Speeder

Interrogator-Chaplain
Space Marine Bike
Plasma Pistol
Combi-Plasma

Troops

6 Ravenwing Bikers + Chaplain
2 Plasma Guns
Power Weapon (Sgt)
Plasma Pistol (Sgt)
Ravenwing Company Standard
Apothecary
Attack Bike (Multi Melta)

3 Ravenwing Bikers
2 Plasma Guns
Attack Bike (Multi Melta)

3 Ravenwing Bikers
2 Plasma Guns
Attack Bike (Multi Melta)

3 Ravenwing Bikers
2 Plasma Guns
Attack Bike (Multi Melta)

3 Ravenwing Bikers
2 Plasma Guns
Attack Bike (Multi Melta)

Fast Attack

Ravenwing Landspeeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher
Multi Melta

Ravenwing Landspeeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher
Multi Melta

Ravenwing Landspeeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher
Multi Melta

Ravenwing Landspeeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher
Multi Melta

Ravenwing Landspeeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher
Multi Melta

Ravenwing Landspeeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher
Multi Melta

2000 Points on the head. Might change up melta for assault cannon, but probably not with impending flyer doom

>> No.19817725

>>19817632

It just says "Eldar" and was written before allies.

The rulebook says that Battle Brothers count as part of the same army for the purposes of psychic powers.

>> No.19817728

>>19817698

I know. They have to level the playing field though. After all SM Bikes are faster than DE Reavers, right? Right?

>> No.19817732

>>19817717
Have fun never winning an objectives game and those speeders will get swatted like flies at 2000.

Then again, the meta at my LGS is IG/ Ork/ Tau/ Grey Knights so maybe playing against Nids and Vanilla Marines that might actually work.

>> No.19817744

>>19817732
Nigga do you realize how good attack bikes are now

>> No.19817745

>>19817725
"Battle Brothers are treated as 'friendly units' from all points of view."
-pg. 112

>> No.19817752

My CSM can use all 6 battlecannon totting Defilers in a 2k game. I haven't used it yet but considering battle cannons are the bane of anything 3+ save I think it's pretty OP. I'll be using rhinos as their cover so they always get a 4+ obscurity unless it's indirect fire. The rhinos will have havoc launchers too so it's not a waste.

>> No.19817755

>>19817744
Is the answer "A T5 2-wound model that I still wound on 2s with plasma"?

Because if it is, I don't give a FUCK.

>> No.19817761

>>19817752
Imagine a 2000 point chaos army with max oblits

>> No.19817763

>>19817761
>18 oblits

Goddamn that's a lot of lascannons.

>> No.19817765

>>19817761
They removed their toughness 5. Changes nothing against lascannons. Opponents will fire a dozen krak missiles just to see me fail a 2+ save and take a whole obliterator off the table.

>> No.19817766
File: 179 KB, 450x365, codex-astartes.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19817766

>>19817752
>6 defilers
>6 battle cannons
>OP
>Not 18 Leman Russes
>Not 18 battle cannons
>mfw

>> No.19817774

>>19817766
So this double FOC thing is legit, then? I was hoping it was a misprint and it was only ABOVE 2000 where you could take 6 HS choices.

>> No.19817777

>>19817766
AV12 with 4+ cover at 50"+ granted the new deployment zones are kind when setting up.

Plus the twin linked autocannon now has a good use against fliers. Rerolling misses and not caring about BS3.

>> No.19817781

>>19817745

Guys it doesn't matter, just have the Farseer take the goddamned Divination standard spell and you don't have to worry about what it says in the codex.

>> No.19817784

Tau+Necron
Use a Death Ray to kill the Etheral.

>> No.19817789

>>19817755
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwmnR5UkgJI

>> No.19817791

>>19817755

LOL. Doesn't realize that Queer Angels will get a 2++ for no decent reason other than being better than Xenos and a new Dex.

>> No.19817794

theoretically 8 HQ slots with spacewolves at 2000 points
inB4: wolfwolfwolfwolfwolfwolfwolfwolfwolfwolfwolfwolf

>> No.19817798

>>19817774
0-1999pts. = 1 FOC.
2000+ = 2 FOC.

For each FOC chart you get 1 ally FOC. So in 2000pts. and above you get 2 ally FOCs (from the same codex).

>> No.19817829

>>19817794
BT here. We can have 10. Fuck you

>> No.19817855

>>19817791
Go back and look at that list, at 2000 points. It's 27 models.

TWENTY SEVEN MODELS WITHOUT INVUL SAVES AT 2000 POINTS.

You're almost guaranteed to lose half your games (1st turn). That's just not enough survivability without Jink.

>> No.19817856

>>19817829
IG here. We can have 18. Fuck you both. Up the ass.

>> No.19817862
File: 243 KB, 591x1067, bikes bikes bikes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19817862

Here's a skit I did for bikes on 5th edition. Do I really have to re-write this? Too tired right now to cross check it.

>> No.19817870

>>19817855
>bikes
>doesn't know that reserves is their friend

>> No.19817887
File: 44 KB, 533x800, white-scars-v-kroot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19817887

>>19817870
>bikes
>reserves is their friend
>bikes
>reserves
>mfw

>> No.19817890

>>19817855

Jink is invul... And no doubt they will get a special one.

>> No.19817892

>>19817870
>Feed me your army piece by piece with less than 30 models

It's like you want to give the game away.

I've played several games against Ravenwing armies, and every time they get bogged down in my speedbumps trying to get to HQ and HS choices.

There just aren't enough of them to stand in, all I have to do is make sure I don't spread thin and I'll just grind them down.

>> No.19817902

>>19817887
One sacrificial model on the table at the start of the game can fix that. Fall for it one, shame on the tau player, fall for it twice shame on the bike player.

>> No.19817905

>>19817890
No, it's a cover save. And cover saves are not difficult to crack.

>> No.19817908
File: 40 KB, 373x386, jink.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19817908

>>19817890
It sure is.

>> No.19817916

>>19817887
>Doesn't know he can't do that anymore since only 50% of your army can be in reserves

>> No.19817921

>>19817892
You're talking to someone different at this point.

Played bikes swarm-like before. I typed out:
>>19817862

5th edition with 3+ turbo boost save was mean. All ariving from a small corner of the table and having 1500+ points versus 300-ish points per turn was also mean considering two turns and they're on you. Only mech armies could really escape that in 5th.

>> No.19817927

>>19817916
That's even worse, honestly.

>> No.19817929

>>19817921
Oh and don't forget buying a fortification that fully hides a bike unit you may not even have to worry about first turn fire except indirect stuff.

>> No.19817934

>>19817921
Turbo is a 4+ now, and I don't play an elite army. I'll gladly let you grind through 3 or 4 Troops squads while my heavies blast you off the face of the Earth.

>> No.19817942

>>19817929
>spending 1/8th of your points on a fortification that you won't use

I must be spoiled or something. Ravenwing just don't scare me.

>> No.19817948

>>19817934
Sure have at it. Bike armies played air style(old term) have a reported 40%-ish average win rate. Considering the list is closer to a one trick pony and there's no true counter to a bike army with firepower alone or melee counters.

A terminator unit charged by 50 bikes in one turn can be wiped before fists get to swing for example. It's very easy to do that when you get into the control zone of within 18"(20" now this edition and pre measure). Turbo boost gets them there that quickly.

>> No.19817949

>>19817892
>18 bikes, including chaplain, apoth, interrogator chaplain
>10 plasma guns and 5 attack bikes with multi meltas which can be switched with heavy bolters
Good luck

>> No.19817952

>>19817942
>not used
But you hide behind it first turn to stop firepower. That's better then giving them a 2+ save for an upgrade.

>> No.19817967

>>19817949
>18 bikes

I only have to cause what, 54 wounds? Yeah, that's really difficult at 2000 points.

>10 plasma guns

Who is this supposed to impress? I throw that many plasma BLASTS at 2000 points.

>Chaplain, Interrogator Chaplain

400-something points of characters that together have 5 wounds on a 3+ save?

Why do you worship such a mediocre army? Any decent player can take it apart with proper fire management and average rolling.

>> No.19817971

>>19817927
That's why you seep strike all of dem speeders

>> No.19817972

>>19817952
You also have to go around it, taking inches away from your forward movement.

>> No.19817978

>>19817971
And do people generally leave tanks, Broadsides and various other Speeder targets hanging around alone?

I sure don't, and neither does anyone with half a brain.

Derpstrike only works if you're A) lucky and B) your opponent is a nitwit.

>> No.19817986

>>19817972
Often there's only a 30" gap and with 24" turbo boost that doesn't matter. Often found myself struggling to keep them 18" from their starting point because I went too far for my desired control zone. With premeasure, it's so much easier now. Begs me to use a bike army again actually.

>> No.19817993

>>19817967
I just feel like that army would be great to flank, especially since my speeders with whirlwinds can deep strike and my bikes come in other side

>> No.19818001

>>19817986
What armies were you playing against where you can trade rounds of shooting with that few models?

Lootas bury you, Russes bury you, Dakkapreds bury you, Sternguard bury you, the list goes on and on.

>> No.19818009

>>19817763
I did the same trick with Coteaz and monkeys. It's fun, but your opponent will hate you. You can fit 24 jokaero in six squads of four riding around in chimeras at under 1250.

>> No.19818029

>>19817993
Sure you can flank another low-number army, but if you're 18" away in 6th ed against most of the horde armies, those little 5-wound squads of 3 bikes/ 1 attack bike are going to get wasted pretty quickly.

>> No.19818048

I'll just ask this here without starting another thread:
What's a good special weapon to go with an autocannon in IG infantry squads? I'm thinking plasma gun, since they're both S7, so they work together.

>> No.19818052

>>19818001
Mid 5th I stopped playing 40k for a while (moved).

Before that I was notorious for picking off units 1v1.
Here's my old list.
2000 Points
165 (1) Captain: Relic Blade, Bike, Halo
225 (5) Bikes: Powerfist, 2 Flamers & (+1) Attack Bike, Multi-Melta
250 (6) Bikes: Powerfist, 2 Flamers & (+1) Attack Bike, Multi-Melta
250 (6) Bikes: Powerfist, 2 Flamers & (+1) Attack Bike, Multi-Melta
250 (6) Bikes: Powerfist, 2 Flamers & (+1) Attack Bike, Multi-Melta
250 (6) Bikes: Powerfist, 2 Flamers & (+1) Attack Bike, Multi-Melta
250 (6) Bikes: Powerfist, 2 Flamers & (+1) Attack Bike, Multi-Melta
120 (2) Land Speeders: 4 Heavy Bolters
120 (2) Land Speeders: 4 Heavy Bolters
120 (2) Land Speeders: 4 Heavy Bolters
(made from exactly 6 ravenwing box sets)
(field too long, one sec)

>> No.19818057

>>19818052

I used flamers because cover fucked over bikes when charging into terrain. There was usually some terrain in the middle (both players taking turns putting it down, so I put my portion in the middle). I would only need a little over 1" to fit my entire army through. I would be on the backline and often I had to turbo boost twice to get where I wanted to be. Avoiding most 24" range weapons and if they deployed to cover the whole table with 48" range guns I was out of range of about 70% of it in the start. I would deploy in an arc formation for each unit so when a blast scatters it never really got more than 2 models max with the 5" blast template. With cover rules as they were, it had to be indirect fire to avoid the scattering hits that often landed behind a unit or you fired it at the front unit meaning 1/2 of the scatter side it went hit nothing. So they often opted for my 4+ cover save and blasted in the middle of my army when they could.

My speeders were put in front of the bikes for a sacrificial turn of rapid fire to stop melee charges on my bikes. As you know it took 6's to hit skimmers that went fast in melee in 5th. So with the skimmers keeping a horde back I got two, sometimes three rapid fires on a horde melee army that likes to bog me down. Otherwise I went full monty and charged. I encircled transports disembark locations sometimes circle the whole thing in case it explodes and wipe out the unit inside because of the 1" distance rule.

It is a mean army.

>> No.19818062

>>19818048
Make friends with Special Weapon/ Heavy Weapon Squads.

Mixing them into line squads is useless.

Combined squads are going to be the name of the game with IG infantry.

>> No.19818064

>>19818048
Far back in the rear where AC's abuse their range a sniper rifle is good. Otherwise flamers are too good for what they are these days when you face melee or a failed charge and get to walk forward and template them.

>> No.19818070

>>19818052
See, THAT is a bike army I respect.

>> No.19818079

>>19818070
Thanks.

6 Ravenwing box sets and some special weapons bought separately are all you need to make it.

>> No.19818083

>>19818062
So naked infantry squads and HW/SWSs for heavy and special weapons?

>> No.19818096

>>19818083
Combined platoon of 50 with 5 flamers, meltabomb sergeants with power axes and one commisar with meltabombs+power axe. It's a melee squad that has bested a unit of 10 berzerkers with ease in 5th. This edition I'm not too sure, but with all the pile in steps it certainly is no puppy on the table.

>> No.19818103

>>19818096
5D3 hits from flamers and up to about 70 lasgun shots when using snapfire during an overwatch. Give them an order and you get another 50 shots on top of that.

>> No.19818112

>>19818083
Demo charge SWS and 3ML HWS have been doing very well for me lately.

You haven't seen delicious rage until you see a Terminator squad reduced from 10 models to 5 or 6 models after your opponent had to take like 13 3+ saves. Protect them at all costs, and I promise you they will not let you down.

3ML is a good mix for anti-light armor/ anti-MC duty, and the 2 small blasts even let you the squad help with anti-horde work.

>> No.19818121

I really want to run a list combining Chenkov and Karamazov as a gun-line. Dropping pieplates on my own men, killing off the remainder and bringing in more seems like it would be fun.

>> No.19818122

>>19818112
Hey here's a trick for Demo Squads. Know that outflank lieutennant that gets his platoon from a flank, and creed? Outflank with 6 demo charges.

Or use your valkyries/vendettas with that special disembark rule when it goes fast. Drop them down, 2 or all 3 of the demo charges survive and then throw them the same turn.

>> No.19818133

>>19818122
I just hide them behind Leman Russes, or inside buildings with no windows.

Your Vendettas should be busy hunting other flyers, not ferrying 6-man teams of Guardsmen.

>> No.19818136

>>19818096
I didn't ask "What's the most ├╝ber build for IG today to exploit the fuck out of?" I asked what goes best special weapon to go with autocannons these days. I already got IG up the wazoo, I'm just thinking of way to mix them up for this edition.

I already got my meat-shield units ("abhuman" platoon) protecting the front.

>> No.19818148

>>19818136
Guard is about using the right unit for the right job.

Putting special weapons is forgivable to give each unit some real bite without spending 35 base for the SWS

Putting heavy weapons in a line squad is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. Those guns need to be focused on big scary things while your Guardsmens' lasguns do the janitorial duty.

>> No.19818156

>>19818136
Give your guardsmen krak grenades since that hurts MC's and singular units can wipe out lots of tanks. Just costs 10 points. Lots of 60 point squads can wipe out a fuckload of things with their grenades and rapid fire.

>> No.19818195

Keeping on topic I think I broke allies.

Doomseers in a 2k marine scout sniper army.

All those 13 point sniper rifles getting rerolls to hit because they're 4+ to hit(another chance to get a precision shot) and rerolls to wound(another chance to roll a 6 to get ap1).

Do I get a cookie now?

120 scouts = 30 hits on a 6(20 hit first roll, rerolls get another 10 hits). Then there are 5 of those that get another 6 to get AP1. Rerolls to hit are +50% more firepower, and what hits that doesn't wound and gets rerolls are like having 25% more on top of that. (180 scouts+25% basically in firepower)

Cookies now?

>> No.19818432

Bump.

>> No.19818463
File: 174 KB, 515x357, 1302784935967.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19818463

>>19818195

Guide being cast on non-eldar is debatable issue.Doom is fine.

Why not just use the eldar rangers? They get AP1 with 6 to hit anyway.

>> No.19818485

>>19818463

This. DE player taking a Farseer + 2X Rangers as soon as new Dex and models are out.

>> No.19818495
File: 8 KB, 106x112, 1304940215587.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19818495

>>19818485

Consider a fire dragon exarch with tank hunter and crack shot, and stick him in an aegis quad gun.

4x BS 5, Twinlinked S7 shots that reroll to pen and ignore cover saves (such as flyer jink).

>> No.19818526

>>19818495

Yeah that is fucking awesome, but I spent so long modelling my Blasterborn...

Swooping Hawks may be worth a go though - would look cool next ot my Scourges.

>> No.19818564
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19818564

>>19818526

Intercept is literally useless unless your against a WS 9 vehicle, which isn't going to happen.

Skyleap is essential beyond words, since if you get deep strike mishap and your opponent places you next to a bunch of termies, you can just jump up again same turn. Deep strike and throwing a BS5 haywire with exarch seems the way to go.

Also yo yo bombing might be useful since less people will be in transports.

>> No.19818589
File: 918 KB, 1920x2560, 1304945422211.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19818589

Anyone got an good ally recommendations for CW Eldar?

DE Archon with fortuned shadow shield has potential (since he is an Eldar), 3x broadside...

One thing I was looking at was IG Soul shrivel from the pskyer battle squad, followed by telepath farseer's psychic scream. 3d6-2 wounds with no armour or cover sounds like deletion magic.

My friend reckons I should go with Njal for Warding with 3+ negation.

>> No.19818697

>My Space Wolves are Grimnar's Company.
>Realize I can ally with my Steel Legion army.
Fuck yeah this shit will be dope.

>> No.19818704

>>19818589
Basic dark eldar come with poisoned rifles. You can pack 40 of them and never look at 19 point rangers again. Double this out with dire avengers for volume fire as your other required troops and you have all the anti monster/infantry dakka you require.

>> No.19818711

>>19818564

Yeah I am really hoping for a new plastic set, if its anything like the Scourges it will be pretty much essential. With Scourges actually being pretty decent now I've just bought some more!

>> No.19818734

>>19818704

I presume you don't know about Precision Shot/AP1? Rangers are synergistic with DE.

>> No.19818748

>>19818734
You do realize that for every ranger you get you sacrifice 2-4 shots from a pair of dark eldar.

The math comes out close for wounding a monster, but against other things sniper heavy armies lack the ability to clear things like ork mobs.

>> No.19818774

don't know about broken, but my imperial fists are getting imperial guard sappers(vets/demolition) with basilisk support in future.

>> No.19818779
File: 221 KB, 500x336, 1334581056968.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19818779

>mfw when seeing all the dumb cunts in this thread who think that tournies will be running dual FOCs instead of 1850p games

fuck man you guys are hilarious

>> No.19818793

>>19818748
I take Shard Carbine Trueborn for that. I want something to sit in cover with a Farseer and pop the odd termie/character that my assault can't handle now.

>> No.19818825

>>19818779
it really is retarded. i don't get why people think that 2000 is the standard.

although 1850 is a fucking oddball number by itself.

>> No.19818846

When the new CSM dex is released I'm going to be making up this list pretty much. I've fluffed it as Ahriman has discovered a Webway Gate/something important on a planet and has corrupted the Primaris psyker into taking control of the nearest guard unit. It's purely a fluff list, not designed to win. The conscripts are basically meatshields for the important units as are the cultists. Cultist info is from the 6th ed stater leak, i've guessed the points.

Primary Detachment: Traitor Guard
HQ
Primaris Psyker-70pts

TROOPS
Infantry Platoon-795pts
Command Squad, Platoon Standard, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad, Plasma Gun, Autocannon, Chimera
Infantry Squad, Plasma Gun, Autocannon, Chimera
Infantry Squad, Plasma Gun, Lascannon, Chimera
Heavy Weapons Team, Autocannon, Missile Launcher x2
Heavy Weapons Team, Autocannon, Missile Launcher x2
Heavy Weapons Team, Autocannon, Missile Launcher x2
Conscripts

Infantry Platoon-840pts
Command Squad, Platoon Standard, Autocannon, Meltagun
Infantry Squad, Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Chimera
Infantry Squad, Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Chimera
Infantry Squad, Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher, Chimera
Heavy Weapons Team, Lascannon x2, Missile Launcher
Heavy Weapons Team, Lascannon x2, Missile Launcher
Heavy Weapons Team, Lascannon x2, Missile Launcher
Conscripts

FAST ATTACK
Hellhound/Banewolf, Heavy Bollter/Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour-145pts

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Squadron-425pts
Leman Russ, Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Extra Armour
Leman Russ Executioner, Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons, Extra Armour

>> No.19818849

>>19818793
>already taken ally
>cannot take a different codex ally
Alright then. CWEldar right?

Warwalkers with twin starcannons. Guide helps the shots hit home. AV12 in the front due to shields they come with, so they're somewhat tough. Outflank them if you must keep them alive to get a first shot off before being focused on. You will be shocked to see reroll hitting batch of 12 dice will do to terminators.

>> No.19818853

>>19818779
>>19818825

>Implying we give a fuck about tournie meta. Weblist fucking virgins. Contribute or GTFO.

>> No.19818865

>>19818846
And the CSM part.

Allies: CSM
HQ
Ahriman-250pts

ELITES
Chosen, Tzeentch Icon, Aspiring Champion, Power Fist, Autocannon, Meltagun, Plasma Gun x2-258pts
Rhino, Demonic Possesion, Havoc Launcher-70pts

TROOPS
Cultists, Leader, Shotgun and CCW, Auto Pistol and CCW, Flamer~76pts
Cultists, Leader, Shotgun and CCW, Auto Pistol and CCW, Flamer~76pts

>> No.19818870

>>19818849

Confused, I play DE and am thinking about getting a CWE Det. War walkers may be good against flyer spam with Scatter Lasers as DE haven't got much for that.

>> No.19818880

>>19818779
>>19818825
Got a tournament coming up, 2000pnts. Idea is to see what faggotry people will pull in 6th in a competitive scene. I am bringing one detachment of Space marines under Lycander.
2 tac squads(fist/melta/multi) 1 vanguard(with Lycander/combi plasma) in drop pod, 2 tooled Ironclads(In Drop pods) 1 dev squad (4xmissile) 2 Vindicators 1x10 man scouts. Nothing you couldnt do in 5th. I look forward to seeing how well new cheese deals with my older more balanced list.

>> No.19818883

>>19818853
>net listing
>not playing units that you think are fun
it's like you try to avoid fun

>> No.19818885

>>19818870
Yeah I only figured out a bit late you were DE primary and that CWEldar are the allies.

War Walkers are a good unit, they no longer have their starcannons forced to be twin-linked.

>> No.19818886
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19818886

>>19818853

Ok, so you don't play competetively, so what's the fucking point of even sticking to the FOC in the first place?

Wow, you are REALLY fucking stupid!

>> No.19818890

>>19818883
But units that do well are fun.
>I think you mean units that look cool

>> No.19818929

>>19818495
Hmm, conferring abilities to a mounted weapon seems a bit of a stretch. I'm not going to go all rules lawyer on it, since you're wasting a precious Dragon squad sitting on its ass in your deployment zone.

>>19818564
I was never really into Skyleap. Deep Striking repeatedly gets pretty dangerous, and you have to get pretty exposed to throw one Haywires. Might be safer then jet into a vehicle and throw one, then plant grenades with the whole squad.

Of course, I'd rather look at Scourges with a whole arsenal of deadly weapons, and no Exarch asking to be sniped.

>> No.19818943

>>19818929
Attack a vehicle. Bad situation, skyleap.

Return with a pie plate, run rule to scatter. Next turn remove another vehicle.

>> No.19818987

>>19818929
it seems to work fine, but okay you sit your ass in the depoyment zone, get a shot off on a single flyer and take 1 down. if they are running a flying list, that tower is going to be shot up and there goes the 100 point investment other than cover walls.

>> No.19819013

>>19818121
Doesn't work since Grey Knights aren't battle brothers with anyone.

>> No.19819023

>>19818943
Surely you won't hurt most vehicles with one grenade? One Glance or a pen on a 6?

..Unless I'm being majorly retarded, and you mean deep strike in, run next to a vehicle since you don't need an assault move to fight a tank in hand to hand or something. Is that possible in 6th?

>> No.19819036

>>19819023
can't move in base to base unless you are assaulting, you can't assault when you come from reserves

>> No.19819060

>>19819013
God damn it

>> No.19819062

>>19819023
Turn 1, move, assault if possible or move next turn and get that tank.

Next turn skyleap out.
Next turn drop back in in some area out of sight, run to scatter or if not peck away at some unit.
Final turn take out another vehicle move+assault.

Two vehicles for one unit, not rocket science. It's about being hard to catch/kill and getting your licks in.

>> No.19819087

>>19819013
neither are necrons. they probably tried to have them be battle brothers but it was too OP.
>necron warriors with charm
>scarabswarns with eternal warrior

shit is pretty beast

>> No.19819111

>>19819062
I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but unless you're attacking lone artillery vehicles there seem to be a few chances to get shot to hell here. Maybe I'll try them, great models at least.

>> No.19819191

bump.

>> No.19819444

>>19819111
It's pick and pull. Get your chance or make the opponent turtle trying to protect stuff. Think of what might be useful if you make him turtle.
>maybe a fast army likes when they turtle to circle them, etc

>> No.19819694

>>19818849
>AV12 Warwalkers
What the fuck am I reading?
War Walkers are AV10 all around dumbass
And Dual Starcannons is a terrible setup
80 points for 4 BS3 S6 AP2 Shots is awful. You put scatter lasers on them, 60 points for 8 BS3 S6 AP 6 shots is better.
Also be warned: War Walkers got kicked in the balls with HP, they only have 2.

>> No.19819775

Somewhat related: Would it be unreasonable for me to not want to play against allies or fortifications in pick up games? I'd be happy to do so, so long as the game was pre-arranged.

>> No.19820887

After playing four games with just Orks using 6th rules and literally finding only nerfs and nothing at all beneficial what so ever (feel free to correct me (oh GOD please feel free))

Is there any broken Ork ally lists? I'm close to just throwing them all on eBay at this point...

>> No.19820900

>>19820887

What nerfs?

>> No.19820962

>>19820900

I'm not going to list them all...

1. Furious Charge gimped, the initiative boost is a bitter blow, we strike last in virtually all situations now even on the charge.

2. Overwatch, whilst not a gimp, for an army that revolves around throwing incredibly lightly armoured troops into combat against everything, I've been stung in all four games by this.

3. Choppas and Big Choppas not having an AP value

I'm just looking for something... anything which'll give me a boost at this point, i'm pretty depressed.

>> No.19821957
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19821957

>>19820962
Aww, don't be a sad boss.
If you're looking for some light, how about these:
-Nobs are characters, which means wound allocation shenanigans
-Bikes give you real T5, meaning it takes a str 10 weapon to kill a nob in one hit, and a boss that can't be insta-killed by a str 10 weapon. Also, deffkoptas are even more delicious thanks to this.
-Nobody wants to assault a squad of Burna Boys, since getting d3 str 4 ap 5 hits on overwatch for every boy still alive will hurt. Also, hidden kombi-skorchas on nobs.
-Your new flyes are quite good, combining the durability of a flyer with a lot of this "dakka" thing I keep hearing about.

All in all, I believe that orks will do just fine in this edition.
Chin up and go and try new things if your old moves don't work.

>> No.19822016

>>19820962
You could try new things...

>> No.19822058

Where's the scan

>> No.19822076

>>19820962
>3. Choppas and Big Choppas not having an AP value

Wait, they didn't have AP before either. How is that a nerf?

>> No.19822258

>>19822076
But they fucking should have.

Back in the day choppa's forced marines to take a 4+ save. which was pimpin'. choppas deserve to return to their former glory. or AT LEAST have something over "Durr, generic melee weapon"

This also just piles onto the even more reasons why Slugga boyz are never going to be as good as shoota boyz. which is completely retarded.

Doesn't help that WAAAGH! Is pretty much dead either. all orks lists are just gonna go Straight dakka, which is fine, but fucking boring if everyone's doing it.

And lets not forget the "melee buff guy" (Weirdboy) is completely wothless in this edition
>>19820962

On the plus side...

Deff dred gotten slight toughness upgrade. 2 overwatch flamers, 3 hull points.

Waaagh! is pretty much only used if you roll dakkajets now. i play a Kult of speed, and i got mine in on turn 3 versus Grey Knights. fired 18 str 6 shots into some generic "deathstar" termie unit, shreded 4 of them. way too many saves. and i only had ONE dakkajet. i need another one, man.

Trucks/Battlewagon buff. actually more useful than ever.

T6 Wazdakka/Warboss, T5 nob bikers with 2 wounds, WS5, with a huge charge range. and the same old classic smoke saves.

Stormboys can pretty much cross a table into a charge now. and Zagztruk now more reliable (although only I 3 now)

Lootas still as bullshit as ever.

Awesome ageis / tower terrain. fun to convert and dead useful for killing flyers. (And hiding lootas)

Anyone with Mek tools (Mek Burna boys) can fix wep destroyed AND a hull point on a 4+ (My battlewagon never died)

>> No.19822301

>>19819694
Take 2 farseers, sling some Forewarning on them, then fortune them. Rerollable 4+ invul scoffs at 2 HP.

>> No.19822343

>>19822258

How did Trukks and Battlewagons get buffed? The only thing they got was being able to fire guns while moving, which was never important for Orks before (the firing guns part).

On the other hand:

- Open-topped vehicles explode just as hard on their occupants as any other transport now.
- No moving 12", disembark 2", assault 6" (20"). It's now move 6", disembark 6", assault 2d6" (avg 19"), the important distinction being it's much harder for them to get back into their vehicle after an assault.
- Like every other non-flyer, our transports are easier to assault.

>> No.19822383

>>19820887
Orks are great allies. Biker bosses are 'ard as fuck, killy, and cheap. Grots hold objectives cheaper than any other unit in the game. Boyz are fantastic light infantry. Lootas, big gunz. Good shit.

>> No.19822466

>>19822343
>Open-topped vehicles explode just as hard on their occupants as any other transport now.

When an ork truck dies you roll on the ramshackle table. if you get 1-2 your boyz only suffer a str 3 hit. fuck da police, Codex always overrides the rules

>No moving 12", disembark 2", assault 6" (20"). It's now move 6", disembark 6", assault 2d6" (avg 19"), the important distinction being it's much harder for them to get back into their vehicle after an assault.

Yeah but since when did us Orkz care about averages? I'm rushing in with about 4 trukka boyz, i'm gonna get some good rolls. orks always beat the average by sheer numbers. AND you're forgeting red paint.

>Like every other non-flyer, our transports are easier to assault.
Trucks now don't die to random glancing hits. it'll take at least 3 of them. and a Pen has to get a wreck (and we'll still only take str 3 hits if it does die.)

Battlewagons have 4 hull points and front armour 14. not easy to kill. and if anyone's gonna get close, bring out yer deffrolla

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