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[ERROR] No.19812470 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Just a remminder, when you say "no" to the true Queen of Westeros, Daenerys "Stormborn" "Mother of Dragons" "Breaker of Chains" Targaryen, you also say no to a ruler whose primary advisors are Ser Barristan Selmy and Tyrion Lannister.

...also you out yourself as a showfag.

Speaking of which, I'm making a Hedge Knight in the ASOIAF RPG for shits and giggles, and in hopes of finding a game eventually. Any thoughts on what Benefits I should take? I'm going to make a giant, Dark Souls-style tank with plate armor and a tower shield if I can manage it

>> No.19812543

Don't have my rulebook to hand but take Massive so you can wield two-handed weapons in one hand, that way you can use a tower shield along with a massive war hammer, then take all the bludgeon fighter benefits, then perform a knockdwon attack on all enemies in plate, that way their is now way the enemy can stand back up unless he spends a shit load of fatigue points. You essentially win all combat.

>> No.19812573

Dany's only redeeming quality as a queen is that she's barren, and would thus fuck Westoros over for a minimal amount of time.

>> No.19812582

But Tyrion isn't her adviser...not yet anyway.

>> No.19812620

Showfag? lol. OP has outed themselves as a deluded fanfic author.

>> No.19812670

>wins the love of the smallfolk effortlessly
>leads the broken remnants of a Khalasar until they're an army big enough to conquer three cities
>has the only dragons in Westeros
>can actually play the game and be sneaky
>ate a horse heart without puking

I dunno, those sound like more and better accomplishments than any other claimant has, save perhaps Stannis the Mannis.

>> No.19812707

>fanfic author

Yes, the books written by George R.R. Martin are totally fanfic of the HBO show. I'm really amazed he decided to just make shit up and keep going when season 3 isn't even out yet! Man, will his face be red when he's wrong about everything, clearly.

>> No.19812728


That's how Robert won at the Trident, isn't it? He was just better minmaxed for melee than Rhaegar, but suffered later on for the points he took out of his motive-sensing and ruling skills.

>> No.19812769


Dany is idealistic and charismatic but she has proven herself as a horrible political leader. I mean freeing the slaves is a nice an noble thing to do but she destroys and destabilizes the region so bad that people are begging to be enslaved again if it just means they'll have some food to eat.

I think she's gonna get on the Iron Throne but completely bugger everything when she tries to kill all the remaining Lannisters, Baratheons, Starks and any other surviving house that led to her families fall.

and >>19812573
pointed out that she will have no heir to her throne unless she plans on making Aegon her heir.

>> No.19812787

>is so attached to those smallfolk she refuses to make good her threats to her enemies to ensure peace or go to the land where she has an actual claim on rulership
>chose to disrupt the economy of the free cities rather than head to westeros, sparking a huge ass war, reducing the likelihood that the free cities will have ships/food/other aid available to the people of westeros
>doesn't know how to tame those dragons, "baaawwwwww they'll eat people why didn't i realize that's what my house if famous for"
>won't be consistently treacherous or merciless to her enemies, what the game requires to actually win
>ok maybe some props for eating that horse heart whole

seriously, dany is an idiot. if there's anyone in ice and fire who's going to survive on plot armor alone, it's her.

>> No.19812790


I know the game isn't really 'canon' per se, but there was a line in there I liked when two guards are talking about that battle, about how when they were fighting on horseback Robert hit Rhaegar so hard that all the rubies encrusted into his armor flew off and their retainers on BOTH sides dove into the muck to get as many as they could.

>> No.19812811

>mfw I can be the size of Gregor Clegane and didn't notice it before

This sounds incredibly fun. Maul or Warhamma?

>> No.19812812


Ha lol, the reason I found out about this build is because my friend and I had an NPC dual for shits and giggles (using the stats from the campaign guide) he was Jaime and I was Robert, needless to say he lost, he didn't even hit me once.

>> No.19812823

>Fuck that shit, I'm going to Braavos.

>> No.19812850


Only ever played that build with a Warhammer. Which ever one has the least Shattering damage, if you deal to much shattering eventually they can stand back up.

>> No.19812882


Too bad he'll hit the queen more than you will.

I really like that the system lets you be well-rounded and still effective. Most games, you have to prioritize strength, or dexterity, or whatever sort of stat you're using for your fighting style. Not in this one. Neglect something completely, and it looks like it will probably kill you.

Think I should grab Blood of the Wildlings or something? Blood of the Northmen doesn't look that good.

>> No.19812883

It was only the well-off slaves, and some freemen, who wanted to be sold as slaves. The vast majority of slaves were pretty damn happy with how Dany was running things.

>> No.19812885

Try "future master of whispers.jpg" and/or "future queen of westeros.jpg"

>> No.19812923

This makes me think

How much would it cost to sic a Nameless on Aegon? He isn't recognized by anyone, nor has titles, so all those factors that make the price soar should be gone.

>> No.19812948


First part made me laugh.
Can't remember most of the benefits, as I said I don't have my rulebook to hand, I just remember the Knockdown/Bludgeon Fighter combo because of how much it annoyed my friend that I destroyed Jaime.

>> No.19812963

for reals, is there any reason why one wouldn't just flee to braavos and spend the rest of their life there? it seems exceptionally chill compared to the rest of the world.

>> No.19812985


Maul: Bulk 1, Shattering 1, Slow, Staggering, Two-Handed
Warhammer: Bulk 1, Powerful, Shattering 2, Slow, Two-Handed

The Warhammer has 1 more point of Shattering, and Powerful. The Maul has 1 less point of Shattering, and has Staggering.

I was originally considering one-handing a poleaxe, but whenever I tried to picture it it looked silly. Even for a seven-foot northern facesmasher.

>> No.19813002

Too many goddamn fireworshippers. Seriously, you can't hurt a fucking javelin without it piercing at least three or four of those fuckers.

>> No.19813057

so don't piss off the R'hlloroupies , doesn't seem too difficult. seems like a foreigner would be more likely to piss off one of the bravos though,

>> No.19813087


Until some bravo sticks a foot of steel through one of your less replacable organs for saying that you think the Black Pearl is hotter than the Poetess or the Merling Queen.

>> No.19813096

granted but she's still a piss poor leader. Don't get wrong, I love her character, marysueness and all, but she's still a terrible queen. She's well meaning but too unrealistic and at times i think she's a bit deluded. I just have no reason to think she'll do any better in westros.

with luck Tyrion can bring her down to earth. I originally thought Selmy was gonna do that but he's too much a boot licker to speak up to any great degree.

>> No.19813099


I think i'd take the maul, powerful can be, really helpful, plus the 1 less staggering will keep them down longer.

>> No.19813116


Most of them are pretty chill, though. At least in Braavos and Myr.

>> No.19813159

I read the books long before the show, and while my favorite character was always Tyrion, and I still have a small love for Bronn, on the other side, in the first books I did have a great respect for Daenerys, even through I actually hate any character that is "special" only because are born with said special trait, even so, Danny did amazing things, I respect that.

But in the lasts books she is turning annoying, I no longer feel happy to read her chapters, Danny is too proud to take council from anyone, and ignored all of Barristan’s advice that could have made her life so much easier, She refused to listen to him, or anyone else, too wrapped up in her romantic fantasies with Daario and her idealistic vision of the Mereen that she wanted to do what would have been best for everyone.

Really, Danny is a great character, but I no longer care about what happens to her, I won't miss her if she die.

>> No.19813167

can't wait to see selmy and the rest of dany's camps faces when victarion and moqorro show up. I can't help but laugh constantly at victarion, because he knows that other men play him for a fool, especially crow's eye, but he still walks right into their plots and plays his part perfectly.

>> No.19813172


...And now you're insulting Ser Barristan. What is WRONG with you, dude?

Dany's problem is the same problem that America has in the real world, trying to influence/rule a culture that is utterly foreign to their own. Unlike in the real world, though, there was no real way for her to do anything else. Theoretically, she could have just taken her Unsullied straight to Westeros, but that would mean freeing the slaves she needed and leaving the rest to the tender mercies of the various Pretentiously-Titled Masters. Also take into account that she's fourteen years old. Fourteen. Unless you're Arya Stark or a Mormont or a Wildling, teenage girls do not have their shit together.

>> No.19813206


Because Euron is setting himself up to have his asshole dominated. If Stannis doesn't somehow fuck him up first, the Tyrells will. Or the Warrior's Sons.

>> No.19813220


The Warhammer has Powerful, as well as more Shattering. The Maul has Staggering and less Shattering.

>> No.19813243


Agreed, except for anything involving Strong Belwas just being too fucking fat to poison. I laughed like an asshole at that.

>> No.19813244

I hate to say it, but Barristan the Bold has kinda turned into milkwater with age. I think he's cool, and his age means he knows the history and has excellent perspective, but he's a much better fighter than schemer/political mover. He should be in charge of the kingsguard and that's it.

>> No.19813253


America can get away with that sort of bumbling because our firepower is still greater than everyone else's COMBINED. Dany doesn't have that luxury.

>> No.19813254


Shit sorry bro, didn't read it right, still I would take the Maul.

>> No.19813322

recently Ser Barristan comes off as if he's shut down. all he wants to do is die protecting who he sees as their heir to the throne. there's nothing wrong with that but I don't really see him as the kind of person who can properly teach dany to be an effective ruler. I was hoping when he show'd up he'd at least tell her the truth about her family but the most we've got is him telling her that her father was kinda crazy which is a bit of an understatement.

>> No.19813421


I'm not 100% sure, but I think I remember that Robert was able to beat Jaime in either a melee or the practice yard, especially back when he was in shape. Jaime is (well, WAS) a really, really great knight, excellent with sword and lance, but Robert is just so much bigger and stronger that skill almost doesn't matter.

Pic related, since Rhaegar (probably) fought in a similar fashion to Jaime.

>> No.19813443

I'm pretty sure that was in the books, too. Rhaegar had a big dragon on his breastplate, all in rubies, and when Robert stove in THE WHOLE GODDAMN BREASTPLATE, HOLY SHIT SON the rubies scattered, and all the smallfolk that were fighting nearby scurried to try and pick some up. I think Arya talks about going to the river when they're nearby to look for rubies.

>> No.19813446


He just ousted Dany's husband, killed a champion gladiator in single combat while trollfacing as hard as he possibly could, and is currently in charge of Mereen. Barristan did shut down for a while, but that was after he turned in his white cloak the first time, he's back and more badass than ever, now.

>> No.19813482

he's also ready to completely fuck up the wise masters. i was so happy when i read that part. I hope he survives long enough to make it back to westeros and have a confrontation with jaime.

>> No.19813491

I always figured the main reason Robert won on the Trident was because he motivated by his love for Lyanna. (and by motivated i mean it turned him into a crazy berserker on the battlefield)

but didn't they kinda hint that, even as cheesy as it is, that love can make characters better than they are in the ASOIAF world? i mean it helped Jorah win the tourney for his second wife and motivated dany to eat a horse heart and burn a woman alive.

>> No.19813501

I'd like to play too, and I have in mind a young adult schemer who's a skinchanger. Yay animal assassins!

>> No.19813539

me too.
But I think Jamie is gonna win that fight.

Selmy is certainly gonna be a better fighter but I just think Goldenhand is gonna be able to win. it'd be a nice way for his character to come full circle from an evil fallen paladin to a good proper paladin.

>> No.19813561



>implying the books are better than the show.

>> No.19813594


Elder Brother on the Quiet Isle also found some of the rubies, apparently.

So...here's my little bit of speculation for the next book. I think that Sandor Clegane was the limping gravedigger. I think that his leg is going to be healed by the return of magic giving the Faith the potential to perform miracles again. I think he is going to become the Chapter Master equivalent of the Warrior's Sons, and fight against Ser Robert Strong at Cersei's Trial by Combat. By killing what's left of his brother, he'll finally be at peace. Whether he dies in the attempt, I don't know.

>> No.19813597


>> No.19813602


Can't we just appreciate slightly different stories in very different artistic mediums?

Also yeah, I like Daeny, but she gets a lot of what seems like pointless hate, so whatever.

>> No.19813614


There are no spoilers, Dance of Dragons has been out for a good while now. If you haven't kept up with the books, avoid threads on the subject until you do.


>turning a consensual scene that shows Drogo being very considerate and human into a rape scene

>> No.19813621

Last book, I would have been all about Dany. But seeing how badly she bungled everything in Mereen, I'm not willing to entrust her with another country ever again.

>> No.19813637


I'm just waiting for the scene where Jaime either learns to fight left-handed, or finds his gold hand can suddenly move. Assuming Catelyn Stoneheart didn't hang him and Brienne both.

>> No.19813648

Can this be a gamefinder thread?

Would anyone allow a magic using character like a Warg?

>> No.19813662


Love helps, but so does being a huge man with a huge hammer. Bishonen swordsmen don't do that well against sheer brute strength in this series.

>> No.19813676


I haven't read the books, but I remember some guy on /tv/ talking about how Robert 'barely' won against Rhaegar and that there were so many mitigating factors and that Rhaegar was winning and he only lost he cuz he slipped and oh god Rhaegar fuck my tender shitter

Is any of that true?

>> No.19813677

>Someone took her away from me, and seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind.

I think that love is just like any other powerful emotion, it can drive people to do extreme or incredible or moronic things, never necessarily for the better.

what i'm really hoping is that Barristan will be able to recognize that change, since nobody else(aside from Brienne) wants to believe that the Kingslayer is capable of being a good man.

that is some excellent speculation anon. also, god willing, Syrio and Benjen Stark will show up again.

i'm thinking that his sparring with ilyn payne, which were fucking hilarious to read, have been going on long enough that he is a decent left-handed fighter by the time he gets back to king's landing. and yeah, given that assupmtion. fucking catelyn stark.

>> No.19813682


Unless you're Bronn, but that wasn't Rhaegar's style since he went looking for Robert in single combat.

>> No.19813699


Warg is a benefit in the SIFRP rulebook, magic like Melisandre's isn't allowed however, although your gm can house rule it, ours do.

>> No.19813700

>baaaw take your armor off you fucking faggot we don't use armor in the arena THAT SHOT WOULD HAVE KILLED YOU IF YOU WEREN'T BEING A CHEATING FUCK.
>u mad?

>> No.19813707


I know, but some GMs might not be okay with it, or so I assume.

>> No.19813745

I'd like for Selmy to see the change in Jaime but i doubt it. Frankly I prefer the new Jaime being someone who is noble, honest and the real hero of kings landing but is totally fucked over by his reputation. makes his struggle that much more awesome.

>> No.19813791

You know what sucks? Barristan's actor is awesome, but he looks exactly like I pictured Ser Brynden Tully. No matter who the actor for the Blackfish is, he'll never match my mental picture of him because it's already taken by an entirely different character.

Speaking of, badass old knights are the best trope ever.

>> No.19813822

here's the blackfish

>> No.19813896


That's surprisingly acceptable. Fuck yeah Blackfish.

>> No.19813897

what i want is for Robbie Coltrane to be one of the many fat men, most ideally Tormund Giantsbane. could also do with some Brian Blessed, he would have been a fucking awesome Robert.

>> No.19813988


Brian Blessed being killed by a boar would be unrealistic.

>> No.19814046

I say no to all of them, I'm against nobility and for revolution. Lop off their overinflated heads, the all of them.

>> No.19814065


I personally believe that's a combination of the show getting things wrong, sexism, and summerfags who don't know how to read.

Stannis the Mannis is still the only king I'll bend the knee to, though.

>> No.19814088

>implying she's not an awful character in both medium
Oh you neckbeards and your waifus.

>> No.19814093



>> No.19814098


Daenerys hasn't messed up on anything Robb didn't do, except recovered from her mistakes. People love Robb and hate her. I'm not going to jump the gun on sexism though.

>> No.19814119


What the smallfolk think doesn't matter. We can find some new pretty little dove to satisfy their pining fantasies.

Since she's barren that's even more of a problem - we're going to have to deal with succession yet again when she's dead.

Besides, I haven't read the latest book but I heard the spoiler that there's a certain someone with more claim to the throne?

>> No.19814164


Robb is also a wolf-headed corpse. People tend to romanticize and revisionist the fallen.

>> No.19814184


>> No.19814202



>> No.19814215

Claim has been established as not mattering at all; otherwise Robert's rebellion wouldn't have happened, and even if it had, Stannis would sit the iron throne right now. It's all a fucking game, hence the title of the first book, and Dany has dragons, which are the most powerful playing piece.

>> No.19814218

thanks, Walder.

>> No.19814229

>Dany's only redeeming quality as a queen is that she's barren

I'm only a fourth of the way through Dance of the Dragons, so I guess there's still time, but, um, why is no one seeming to freak the fuck out about this?

It's kind of a big deal.

>> No.19814247

This is the single biggest issue. However, knowing prophecies, it might not be the case.

>> No.19814248

Yeah, considering they freaked out so much about a couple zombies they built a ridiculous wall using all of their primitive technology they'll probably just shit themselves to death upon seeing an actual dragon.

>> No.19814252

robert has claim through either his mother or grandmother, who was a targaryen. and even stannis recognizes right from conquest.
because no one knows, except for maybe jorah and the bloodriders.

>> No.19814258

Is Eldric Storm's claim or Stannis's claim stronger

>> No.19814265

Why would they?
Until they find Arya it's not like there's any other cute female protagonists they can throw their banner behind.

>> No.19814275


No one knows but her.


No, that's actually one of the prime arguments in favor of claim from an outside perspective: you knock off the Targs and suddenly it becomes legitimate for anyone who thinks they're tough enough to take a shot at the Iron Throne whereas they had been content not to for a period of 300 years or so.

Also goes back to Leviathan and Hobbes, which was the viewpoint at the time. Social Contract and all that.

>> No.19814278

brothers before bastards, trueborn sons before brothers.

>> No.19814302


>because no one knows, except for maybe jorah and the bloodriders.

Well, Dany herself knows! And she doesn't seem to have any "oh wait a fucking second even if I retake the throne for the Targareyans there is literally no way I won't be the last of my line. Maybe I should think about finding a solution for this" monologues

>> No.19814304

Exactly, Robert had a great-uncle or something. And still usurped the trueborn heir to the throne on a fucking whim, and was met with support.

Allowing that conquest can usurp blood right basically renders the latter null.

>> No.19814321

Maybe she hasn't clued into the fact that everyone with a noble rank is a bloodthirsty savage who will draw sword at the slightest excuse to grab a crown.

>> No.19814327

>Social Contract
Sure is summer in here.

>> No.19814350


>Allowing that conquest can usurp blood right basically renders the latter null.

Are you speaking morally or practically, because there is a huge difference there, although there are arguments against both.

>> No.19814369


>Sure is summer in here.

Actual summerfag detected. I'm known on /tg/ bitch. Check posting statistics.

>> No.19814373

robert's rebellion wasn't on a whim. he was freaking out over lyanna, yeah, but Aerys needed to go, he was paranoid and killing dudes left and right without any good reason. imagine if joffrey makes it to age 30, and that's an approximation of what aerys was like at the end. they settled on robert taking the throne because he had the best claim to it, so that in the future their descendants wouldn't start further rebellions.

>> No.19814400

I like Cleos Frey.

>> No.19814410

No one cares about a namefag, namefag.

>> No.19814415

>Dany Dany Dany abloobloobloo
>/tg/'s raging hard-on for Stannis the Mannis
>no mention of Jon Snow
Anyone who can't see how Jon Snow is clearly the bastard son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark is blind as an eyeless cave fish.

>> No.19814431

I feel bad for Stannis sometimes. Knowing his personality, he probably would have fought for the Targaryens if it weren't for his brother being the one to rebel. It must have been a massive moral conflict for him where in the end he chose family over duty, and Robert never even recognized it and instead shoved him on an island with an ugly wife to rot.

>> No.19814432

there's a good chance that that's the case yeah,
but it doesn't fucking matter as of the end of dance with dragons.

>> No.19814435

>Anyone who can't see how Jon Snow is clearly the bastard son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark is blind as an eyeless cave fish.

That's the thing: It's SO obvious that it causes people to question it.

>> No.19814442


Ahh, you're a migrant from /b/. Welcome!


/tg/ has the same response overall in every thread as to who they support. It's kind of circular.

>> No.19814443

>implying he doesn't warg into Ghost and then back into the John body that Melisandre's going to raise

>> No.19814464

what's worst is that even though ned and stannis had no love for each other, they would have worked together to put stannis on the throne and crush the lannisters.

>> No.19814470

Hey Traitors,

My name is Stannis, and I hate every single one of you. All of you are disloyal, treacherous, scum who spend every second of their day betraying their rightful king. You are everything bad in the world. Honestly, have any of you ever been the legitimate heir to the throne? I mean, I guess it's fun rebelling against your true king because of your own insecurities, but you all take to a whole new level. This is even worse than having the kingsguard beat a little girl.

Don't be a stranger. Just hit me with your best shot. I'm pretty much perfect. I was in charge of defending Storms End, and helped put down the Greyjoy rebelion. What wars did you fight in, other than "shoot crossbow bolts at peasants from behind a portcullis" I also get free onions, and have a banging hot red priestess (She just birthed a shadow; Shit was SO cash). You are all traitors who should just kill yourselves. Thanks for listening.

>> No.19814477

Quick question: Is the OP RPG still looking for people to fill up slots? As ive been wanting to play the game of thrones RPG for years.

>> No.19814486

It might not have been love, but they both had an incredible amount of respect for each other. I get the feeling that they both understood where the other was coming from.

>> No.19814488

>implying the black brothers aren't going to promptly set his corpse on fire for fear he'll come back as a white walker and wreck their shit.
well, if bowen marsh is the one in charge of the stupid mutiny, they might not.

>> No.19814502


Because she will have a child again, when the terms of the prophecy are fulfilled. Also, because nobody is rushing to make sure that the Queen will be pregnant and out of commission for several months. Also because she's viewed almost as a goddess by some of her followers.

>> No.19814505

>Stannis and Jon Arryn, two hard boiled detectives on the edge
>figure out about the whole incest thing, just on a, "lol i unno maybe" suspicion
>Arryn gets murdered

>> No.19814519

Stannis and Jon Arryn, two hard boiled detectives on the edge

I stopped reading there because it was perfect already.

>> No.19814528

>implying it's actually a prophecy and not a curse

>> No.19814534

man, that was the smart fucking thing to do. he didn't have to balls to tell robert to his face, 'btw your kids are actually jaime's', and he wasn't gonna stick around to get assassinated.

>> No.19814535

>relying on prophecies
You really think that's gonna work?

>> No.19814542


He actually says that very thing, either to Davos or Jon. Specifically that it was the hardest decision of his life, and one that he lost a lot of sleep over after making.

>> No.19814574

what's your favorite death scene /tg/? Mine is Lysa's. I cheered.

>> No.19814595

>Ahh, you're a migrant from /b/. Welcome!

Just...shut up. Seriously. Nobody cares about who a tripfag is, and claiming to be "known" on /tg/ is the sort of stupid, rabid attentionwhoring that makes most tripfags a plague. You got called out, either address Anon's claim about Hobbes or be silent, nobody here knows or cares who you are outside your behavior in this thread, which has been childish and petulant. Really, blaming /b/ and spewing summerfag accusations is utterly the worst sort of behavior. I myself am donning my name solely so that you can recognize me as someone other than the people you're debating with, and letting you know that even other tripfags are embarrassed.

Fucking Christ, you people.

>> No.19814612


Janos Slynt. I didn't really care either way for Jon until he took his head off.

>> No.19814621

It has every other time in the series so far


>> No.19814626

These deaths could have been prevented if:
Lyanna never went to the Harrenhal Tournament.

>> No.19814630


Stannis and Ned had some mutual, guarded respect going on even if they personally didn't get along. Both were just men who believed in doing things themselves.

>> No.19814637

Lysa's was gloriously deserved and had that touch of poetic justice that I love.

While it takes place before the books I love the descriptions of the battle between Robert and Rhaegar. with Robert smashing his warhammer through Rhagar's chest.

other than those id say either Tywin's death or Robb's death.

>> No.19814641

Goddamn Harrenhal, place fucks everything up for everyone all the time.

>> No.19814652


>You got called out, either address Anon's claim about Hobbes or be silent

Anon claimed nothing about Hobbes. At all. Just greentexted the words and said something about summer.

>that makes most tripfags a plague

I've never seen /tg/ give a fuck about tripfags.

>nobody here knows or cares who you are outside your behavior in this thread, which has been childish and petulant

>Can't we just appreciate slightly different stories in very different artistic mediums?

My first post in the thread. Point to where I've been at all childish and petulant.

>Really, blaming /b/ and spewing summerfag accusations is utterly the worst sort of behavior. I myself am donning my name solely so that you can recognize me as someone other than the people you're debating with, and letting you know that even other tripfags are embarrassed.

This is the internet: no one gives a fuck dude, and you're probably the anon I'm arguing with. Chill the fuck out and get back on topic.

>> No.19814655


Wouldn't Aerys still have demanded Rob and Eddard's heads, and Jon Arryn still defied them? Really, Lyanna was just the icing on the cake as an excuse to revolt, because it was a strike against Rhaegar as well.

>> No.19814662

alternatively, if sansa wasn't a traitorous cunt.

>> No.19814665

One is a steely lieutenant, who follows the law to the letter... the other is a good cop, with nothing left to lose.

Together... they keep Westeros safe from the- nope, fuck, he's dead.

>> No.19814668

>These deaths could have been prevented if:
>Lyanna never went to the Harrenhal Tournament.
Her rape could of been prevented if she wasn't dressed so slutty

seriously bro. bad form

>> No.19814669

Ned was the man.

Also what the fuck was up with his giant assfuck sword.

>> No.19814679

Alternatively: if the Lannisters weren't a bunch of NE incest bunnies.

>> No.19814689

Well, Valyrian steel is both lighter and stronger, so swords could theoretically be made much larger.

>> No.19814691


Ancient Valyria and burly northmen

>> No.19814695

Dude liked cutting off heads and normal swords weren't doing the job so he upgraded.

>> No.19814705

That's really it.

And not even, like, all the time. Everything can be traced back to them fucking in Winterfell and Bran seeing them. If they could have kept their pants on for another week, everything would have been fine.

Least until, like, Joff finally got the throne.

>> No.19814711




She wasn't so much traitorous as just deliberately taught to be as empty headed and naive as possible because those are the values of her society.

>> No.19814712

It's kind of sad that no one ever goes down swinging. They just get poisoned or backtstabbed. The only one off the top of my head that really went down fighting was the First Sword, and even he was given a fucking bullshit wooden sword because Martin's 24/7 HURR FUCK YOUR ROMANTIC IMPULSES.

>> No.19814721


Which reminds me, is there any indication of how effective a valyrian sword is against armor? Could a big ass sword like Ice, with a wielder strong enough, cleave through a fully armored enemy? I mean the whole deal, plate, chainmail underneath etc

>> No.19814724

One could argue that Rhaegar should have accidentally his father long before that.

>> No.19814734


Likely yes, iirc that's why they are so valuable.

>> No.19814741

I think Joffery would of been fun king

>> No.19814747

>syrio dead
nigga, we didn't see him go down, no body to speak of, and the kingsguard who attacked him (can't remember who) doesn't say shit about it later.

>> No.19814749

Since the book describes Valyrian longswords as going through steel chainmail like butter: probably.

>> No.19814755


Hm I don't remember that particular quote. My bad.

>> No.19814757

Gregor Clegane?
Cersei's fighting, too, just in her own way and terribly.
Robb and Catelyn? Heavily outnumbered, but they had a chance to make a fight of it.

>> No.19814759


Actually, from what I understand they're very sharp but not supernaturally so. The good thing about them is that they never dull and are unbreakable, but it really makes me wonder: and unbreakable steel would be much more fucking useful as armor, wouldn't it?

Also Valyrian steel is apparently the only thing that can hurt shadows, but that's game canon so take that with a grain of salt.

>> No.19814765


That reminds me, so Arthur Dayne Blade of the Morning, apparently one of the best swordsmen to ever live used said sword which was made from a fallen star, do you think that thing was Valayrian steel level or was he just unnaturally skilled?

>> No.19814769



Likely having to do with you confusing Locke and Hobbes. The Social Contract wasn't Hobbes', The Leviathan was.

>I've never seen /tg/ give a fuck about tripfags.

That would actually lend credence to you being a summerfag, but personally I'm of the belief that you don't need to be new here to be ill-fitting and pompous.

>My first post in the thread. Point to where I've been at all childish and petulant.
>Actual summerfag detected. I'm known on /tg/ bitch. Check posting statistics.

Nobody knows or cares about tripfags, aside from those running popular quests, who only matter to the participants in that quest. Also, you got upset at being called a summerfag. If you can't handle that, go back to being Anonymous or go, /tg/ is not obligated to be kind to you.

>This is the internet: no one gives a fuck dude, and you're probably the anon I'm arguing with. Chill the fuck out and get back on topic.

I can guarantee I'm not, and if you don't give a fuck, why are you arguing? You know what could have resolved this easily? Here, let me show you.

"Whoops, I got a minor topic wrong". The accusation of being a summerfag then gets glossed over as one of countless others hurled around at any time between late May and early September. You don't throw a fit and start the point-by-point rebuttals. You're on /tg/, you have no reputation to protect or uphold except as a group. You got mad, and you are having trouble dealing with it.

Now shut up and go to bed, Cersei, you're making the rest of us fa/tg/uys look bad.

>> No.19814773

But Boros Blount is still around in later scenes. If Syrio were still alive, he wouldn't be.

>> No.19814783

catelyn had a chance and fucking wasted it. didn't she grab the fool? 'i bet walder frey cares about this guy out of his hundreds of offspring'

>> No.19814784

Rhaegar would never do that.
i honestly think he had aspurgers.

every flashback we got of him shows he was aloof in mannor, and couldn't really grasp the consequences of his actions. Hence why he kidnapped Lyanna despite him already being married and not giving a shit when everything goes to hell. he probably never even connected the two events

>> No.19814787

It was definitely Valayrian steel level. Or better.

Martin says that Barristan vs Dayne are evenly matched, unless Dayne has Dawn.

>> No.19814790

It was probably as good, and maybe even better. Just with a very limited supply of iron.

>> No.19814795


I think it was much, much better than Valyrian steel. It was one of a kind.

>> No.19814801


He had no proof, really, and Stannis was aware that he had fewer friends in King's Landing than the Lannisters did. What could he do, publicly shame his brother by calling him a cuckold without evidence and face Jaime in a duel? We can't know for sure, but personally, I don't think Robert would have believed him.

>> No.19814803

Maybe what anon's getting at is that no one ever goes down in a fair fight.

It's always heavily outnumbered, a poisoned weapon, a result of political maneuvering, like all the examples you mentioned.

>> No.19814816


Get a grip you fucking faggot. The guy accused him of being a summerfag, he replied that clearly he wasn't if he looked at the statistics, and that was it. Stop making a tempest in a teacup you spergmonger.

>> No.19814819


I thought it was Meryn Trant, for some reason. Syrio had a broken wooden sword, Meryn was wearing armor and had a real sword, even if Syrio survived and ran off, he's unlikely to win, and we never saw a body or heard that he was killed.

>> No.19814820

Renly hated the Lannisters. Go to him and tell him. Renly had friends.

He didn't have proof, no, but Robert bore no love for Cersei anyway. I think the evidence he did have might have been enough.

>> No.19814830


Then why drag it out? Also, go back to sleep, Cersei.

>> No.19814842



>"ctrl f" mother fucker.
>Not knowing this is a thing

Now stop trying to save face new kid.


Both, but there may have been something more to it.

>> No.19814849


Were there other, unarmed Freys nearby she could have grabbed?

>> No.19814876

Jory got cut down in the middle of the road, but that's what happens when you cross Jaime Lannister. Doesn't mean it's any less fair.

Barric Dondarrion usually dies in fair fights.

Qhorin Halfhand, I guess. That was more of an elaborate suicide/sacrifice, though.

Oberyn Martell goes with Ser Gregor. See Jory's death for details, only larger and angrier.

The dudes from the prologue of the first book.

>> No.19814883


No. Well, yes. But I actually count Syrio's style of death as something that doesn't happen enough. Badass wall of a fighter has what is effectively an army dash itself against him until he finally goes down. That's cool; I like that. That's going down swinging. But even that was ruined by the fucking LOLWOODENSWORD.

Everything else is just fucking backstabbing sneak attacks or poisonings.

>> No.19814895

Wonder how I'd GURPS something like the Red Lady's magery. Been wondering since the part in DotD with her spilling royal blood to get favorable winds on the sail north.

>> No.19814909

Only one I agree with Oberyn Martell.

>> No.19814910


Do you count the thousands and thousands dead in various battles the reader witnessed, or only the named characters?

If the latter, that's thinkin' like a true Westerosi!

>> No.19814917

>he didn't have to balls to tell robert to his face, 'btw your kids are actually jaime's',
The fuck?

It wasn't a matter of balls. It was a matter of common fucking sense. If Stannis believed for an instant Robert would believe him, he'd have told him. Threats or no threats.

>> No.19814919

>Barric Dondarrion usually dies in fair fights.
i laughed.

>> No.19814924


The mistake you're making is that anyone cares about tripfags. Mine comes off as soon as it isn't needed, yours is used for attentionwhoring. Nobody gives a shit how long you've been here. Also:

>throws a fit about being called a summerfag
>accuses everyone else of being a summerfag

...but if you really want to make it a dick-measuring contest and see how long I've been here, you can always hop onto suptg and ask around. I could try to remember some earlier names I've used, if you like? SHOUTING MATSU for L5R threads is the only one that comes to mind, but I normally go Anon to save this kind of drama.

>> No.19814925

Jon Dayne?

>> No.19814944

and why would stannis think that robert should believe him? they borderline hated each other.

>> No.19814946


...also, this is a minor quibble, but swearing every time you get angry doesn't make you look mature. If you're really an oldfag, and act this way, that doesn't improve your situation at all, does it? It just means you've learned nothing.

>> No.19814947

Someone explain to me how it went from "The kids are not Robert's" to "The kids are Jaime's" in Ned's mine.

>> No.19814952

>Then why drag it out?

I'm not the one making giant fucking posts about how US TRIPFAGS AGREE. Jesus.


You're much worse than he is.

>> No.19814956


Listen. I don't give a fuck if you are a newfag or what. There is literally no drama in this thread that you're not just imagining.


If you can call fighting Gregor a fair fight. He even said he never learns his lesson.

>> No.19814958

there's the fight between ned and the last of Aerys' kinsguard. but that happens offscreen and before the books.

>> No.19814959


Hmmm, what about the men at the Red Wedding? Both the Greatjon and Smalljon made a fight of it, I remember.

>> No.19814960

The Darkstar?

I have no sympathy for him. In a land filled with actual badasses, he's trying to act the part with a "cool", "dangerous", and "edgy" nickname he's hoping will stick to him, and no one really buys it. It's pretty hilarious, actually.

>> No.19814972

He's the THAT GUY of the Dayne family.

>> No.19814973

Once again, NOT a fair fight! They were dead from the beginning. It doesn't matter if they took down 20 Freys with them - they were still outnumbered.

>> No.19814984

Was it six on three? I always forget.

>> No.19814986

>Martin says that Barristan vs Dayne are evenly matched, unless Dayne has Dawn.

So Howland Reed is now the best swordfighter in Westeros?

>> No.19814992

were you not paying attention when doran martell was talking. he calls him "the most dangerous man in Dorne."

they get captured, not killed though. and I said i laughed not because that's not true, but because of his multiple deaths as compared to most characters single death.

>> No.19814998


I meant Jon Snow = Jon Dayne.

>> No.19815006


If you don't give a fuck, why are you making such a big deal about it? You went into a rage over not being recognized and being called a summerfag, of all things. If you don't give a fuck, none of this argument would have happened.

Sockpuppeting as Anons to support you really doesn't lend you credibility either. Have you done anything worthwhile on /tg/, yes or no? If you haven't, it doesn't matter how long you've been here, and you've been throwing an amusing spazfit for nothing.

>> No.19815010

>Tyrion knows
>Littlefinger knows
>Varys knows
>Stannis knows
>Jon Arryn knows
>Fucking Lancel knows

That Cersei and Jaime are boinking is like the worst kept secret ever.

>> No.19815020

rumors of incest
joff looking like jaime
all of them possessing strong lannister traits indicating people with blonde curls on both sides
ned dislikes and distrusts the lannisters

>> No.19815021


You forgot Bran and Kevan, oh wait...

>> No.19815022


No, man. That's what I'm looking for. Almost no fights are fair in GoT. I'm looking for GLORIOUS deaths.

>> No.19815023


Arys Oakheart? He was pretty much cut down sword-in-hand by Hotah.

>> No.19815042


Do you really think anyone calling you out on being a bigger faggot than he is is a sockpuppet, you delusional fuck?

>> No.19815044

And I'm looking for fair fights. Stop being so self centered. It's not always about what you want!

>> No.19815051

yeah, but everyone knows that was a romantic gesture on his part, and not a real fight. he was throwing his life away then.

>> No.19815054


I don't think Lancel knew, actually. He confesses that he fucked Cersei to Jaime and gets all teary about it. He says that he was trying to be "like you, Jaime", but in context I think he was talking more in general than "I want to be like you so I'll fuck the same woman". If he really knew Jaime was fucking Cersei, he'd have had a good reason to expect Jaime to kill him for it.

>> No.19815072

>joff looking like jaime
I look a lot like my uncle.
>all of them possessing strong lannister traits indicating people with blonde curls on both sides
The only thing that the history shows is that Baratheon overpowers Lannister. Lannister could overpower many other noble families.
>ned dislikes and distrusts the lannisters

>> No.19815088


Get over yourself, Mwu, if you're going to sockpuppet at least change the way you word your posts.

>> No.19815090

> gets all teary about it

Don't mind me, just bein' one of the few decent Lannisters.

>> No.19815091

>Lannister could overpower many other noble families.

Isn't blonde hair extremely recessive in general?

>> No.19815100

Don't winters last 3 months in general?

>> No.19815104


I really hope he does become a badass knight-militant of the Faith. Westeros could use a few more young heroes.

>> No.19815111

That whole family are pretty alright. I never hated Kevan and Dorna, and it seemed like they actually cared about raising their children right.

>> No.19815113


Fuck it. You're beyond help. I almost hope the other faggot posts at the same time I do just to see you try and worm your way out of that.

>> No.19815122

What you did there?

I see it.

>> No.19815124


Fuck that piece of shit. He killed Robert.

>> No.19815125

are you being deliberately disingenuous by attempting to refute points while excluding the primary one?

>> No.19815126


What's wrong with Kevan?

>> No.19815137


>The only thing that the history shows is that Baratheon overpowers Lannister.

That was the point of what Arryn and then Ned discovered though.

>> No.19815143

Oh, I'm sorry, I kinda forgot that.

When were those 'rumors', again?

>> No.19815148

And you missed the entire point of the conversation.

>> No.19815151

>Lannister could overpower many other noble families.
Except we have no evidence of that, and ample evidence of previous incest in the Lannister family.

So do you have a point to make?

>> No.19815153


No, he just handed him wine like he was told to. Cersei, a big ass boar and Robert's own stupidity killed Robert.

>> No.19815157


It's not just that Joffrey looks like Jaime, it's that not a single one of Cersei's offspring resembles Robert at all, while every one of his bastards looked just like him as a kid with a few differences. Meanwhile, none of the three false stags shows even a single Baratheon trait, or any traits from anyone other than their mother. Jaime spends a lot of time around her and is known for being close with his sister, he likely assembled it from subconscious cues once he noticed how weird it was that none of them had any of Robert's features (or anyone else's) at all.

>> No.19815164


Or did I?

>> No.19815170


this is what actually happened, Ned went and got a book on Baratheon lineage from Master Pycelle, tracing back to every time the lannister's married into the baratheons, the offspring had black hair, but Robert's 'children' were the only ones without the characteristic jet black hair of baratheon, so he concluded they were bastards born of incest from Jaime and Cersei

>> No.19815193

Is there a download link to the book? I'd like to make a character just for fun.

>> No.19815194

around 297 AL, judging from Jon Arryn's investigation and death

did you even read the books?

>> No.19815196

And you both missed the point.

I get why Ned said "hmm, these probably aren't Robert's kids." I'm wondering how he lept from that to "They're obviously Jaime's children"

Y-yeah. Yeah, you, uh, you kinda did.

>ample evidence of previous incest in the Lannister family.

Name this ample evidence that Ned had.

>so he concluded they were bastards born of incest from Jaime and Cersei

Once again, "They're not Robert's" seems a reasonable conclusion to draw given what Ned knew. "They're Jaime's" seems errant.

>> No.19815203


Actually, no. He knowingly poisoned him. I think he explained it later as more "I want to be like Jaime!" shit, since now he's a kingslayer too.

>> No.19815204


He isn't sure, even then, until Cersei confirms it.

>> No.19815215


Sorry, hate to burst your bubble but the inglorious deaths are the whole part of Game of Thrones, when you play the game if you lose, you lose bad, it's not ever going to be fair or glorious, because the game is rigged, and only the most ruthless, cut-throat and treacherous of people win. The pitiful deaths of Robb and Ned were meant to show when you hold honor above reason, you get fucked up by people without scruples. The game isn't glorious or good for anyone, the small folk suffer, houses are split or outright slaughtered, and the realm bleeds.

>> No.19815217

>round 297 AL, judging from Jon Arryn's investigation and death

Once again, nothing that Ned got his hands on or obtained from Jon or Jon's death implied incest. It implied the kids were not Robert's, sure. But not incest.

>> No.19815231


I can only find the fluff book, the one with the actual rules has been taken down a bunch of places.

>> No.19815236


It wasn't poison, it was strongwine. He was just giving Robert the wine, which was already his duty. He was also, what, seventeen and impressionable? Cersei probably fed him a sob story about what an abusive brute Robert was to her, too.

>> No.19815242


Well, Jeoffery being a raging retard helps to lead to that conclusion.

>> No.19815247

>Name this ample evidence
Confirmed for showfag.

>> No.19815248

>the inglorious deaths are the whole part of Game of Thrones, when you play the game if you lose, you lose bad, it's not ever going to be fair or glorious, because the game is rigged, and only the most ruthless, cut-throat and treacherous of people win.

Stop reciting the back-cover of the book to me you fucking retard. I don't care. I don't care how fucking grim Martin wants to make his shit and how NO ONE'S GOOD! NO OOOOOOOONE! Even our own shitty medieval period had heroes and valiant deaths, and we had a hell of a lot less to work with than Westeros.

>> No.19815251


here you go, rulebook+campaign guide and all expansions.

>> No.19815257

Indeed: not only was all he did switch the wine for something with a bit higher ABV, Robert could at any time have stopped drinking but didn't.

Also, Robert was a brutish husband.

>> No.19815267

Or you could, just, you know, name the evidence.

That's would, uh, that would prove your point pretty readily.

B-but, no, keep throwing out unfounded and erroneous insults, maybe I'll see your side of things eventually.

>> No.19815268


>expecting heroes in a court intrigue fantasy series

you're reading the wrong books then. No need to get so ass pained because i tried to explain.

>> No.19815269


Well thank you.

>> No.19815270


The goalposts have shifted, too, from "going down swinging" to "meeting an honorable death in single combat". Even if you die fighting against overwhelming numbers, you're still going down fighting.

What about Yoren? He took a few of Lorch's men with him when he died.

>> No.19815272

That weak, thanks for the info though. Bumping in hopes that someone has it.

Actually, the genealogy which listed all Baratheons being "black of hair" even when with a Lannister shows that these children were of different birth. Their blonde hair solidified the theory that they were Jaime's.

>> No.19815281


It's only 'brutish' if your wife doesn't deserve it. Cersei actually deserved much, much worse.

>> No.19815285

I actually read the opposite; that every side of the war has heroes and villains.

>> No.19815289

You're looking for x in y, and are mad that you can't find it.

Go look somewhere else.

>> No.19815295


Any sites that don't require you to sign in to upload? I have the full book, here.

>> No.19815298

>expecting glorious deaths in combat in a fantasy medieval world with heavy combat
Goodness gracious what a fool I was.

>> No.19815300

It actually just got posted in the thread, but thanks for the effort man I appreciate it!

>> No.19815301

>Or you could, just, you know, name the evidence.
I'm having trouble believing you're this stupid.

You seriously don't know?

>> No.19815303

Cersei deservs death; however, when you're a massive war hero and you beat and rape your skinny wife, that's still brutish. Even if she is a bitch.

>> No.19815307

Yep. Go read something else.

>> No.19815313


Nevermind, forgot I had a Rapidshare account. Uploadan.

>> No.19815326


I totally get where you're coming from and it bothers me at times too, but it's kind of a big part of the books, what with using Ned Stark's death as an example on book one and all that. So, I dunno, you're bitching about something that is an important part of the books. Maybe you should read other books for that and try to enjoy what ASOIAF does bring to the table?

>> No.19815330

Obviously not. Enlighten me.

Just to remind you in case you've lost what were talking about, I'm looking for ample evidence of previous incest in the Lannister family that Ned had access to, thus making his conclusion that Robert's kids were Jaime's (as opposed to some other non-Robert man) reasonable.

>> No.19815331



>> No.19815337

You are now basically bragging about being retarded. Just wanted to draw attention to that.

>> No.19815349


>> No.19815350


And it's already up. Whoops. Well, I tried, sorry I wasn't faster, everyone. But at least you can all enjoy glorious House-generating mechanics and halfway-realistic heraldry!

Just remember not to be too anal about the whole no-metal-on-metal-or-tincture-on-tincture thing, a bunch of the existing noble houses already flagrantly violate it. Stark, for instance.

>> No.19815356

There are plenty of combat deaths. How about the Red Viper? He used poison, but Gregor sure didn't. He died in single combat, killed bare-handed.

>> No.19815363

Robert didn't even want to FUCK her. As for the beatings, ho ho, apparently they didn't go nearly far enough.

>> No.19815367

Next you'll be wanting me to prove that Ned Stark was a Stark

I'll walk you in a little, let you redeem yourself by either figuring it out or remembering it yourself. It isn't exactly a secret.

Did you read the books?

Do you know about any other Lannisters besides Cersei and Jaime?

>> No.19815369


I'm not disputing that he had an honorable death, I'm just saying that don't expect all the characters to have glorious deaths, to me that's boring, and i much prefer the way Martin took out Robb and the others. I hated him for it, but they made them that much more memorable because of that.

Look, this is a book about characters and their interactions, not some fucking mary sue swinging around his unbreakable sword of starkilling gifted to him by the wolf queen to slay the evil vampires of the twilight mountains. If you want fucking glorious deaths and combat every chapter go find some fucking other fantasy literature, you're asking for something that the series isn't about and then calling someone a retarde for pointing out your stupidity.

>> No.19815378


No. Nobody ever deserves to be raped. Although in this case, it's not like Cersei was actively resisting him so much as taking advantage of how drunk he was to prevent him spilling his seed in her after. He was admittedly too rough with her, though, thanks to all the wine he drank.

>> No.19815387


>> No.19815395

Name some of them.

>> No.19815397

Since we are on the subject of this game I have a question for you all. I want to make a character for an up coming SIFRP GoTE who is in a house that has pledged fealty to the group's house. How do I got about doing that without knowing the stats for the groups house?

>> No.19815400

Jon Snow = Jon Targaryen


Jon Snow = Jon Dayne

Which is more likely and which is better writing?

>> No.19815408


There are plenty of glorious deaths in combat. Ser Vardis Egan got one, after all. It's just that one-on-one duels haven't killed as many major characters as treachery or numbers have.

>> No.19815411

>Look, this is a book about characters and their interactions, not some fucking mary sue swinging around his unbreakable sword of starkilling gifted to him by the wolf queen to slay the evil vampires of the twilight mountains.

CLEARLY that's what I mean when asking for valorous deaths in combat in my knights and fantasy book, you raging autist. Holy fuck, must everything be one or the other in your stupid little kindergarden world?

>> No.19815413

Kevan, Lancel, Tyrion, Tywin, Genna, Willem, enough of should I keep going?

>> No.19815418

I can see Targaryen, since it is established Rhaegar had a thing for Lyanna Stark and Ned refused to tell anyone where Jon came from. This seems like pretty well substantiated writing.

What's the argument for Dayne?

>> No.19815424


I don't think the Sword of Dawn would have fucked lyanna stark, against the whole vows of a kingsguard and knight and such, and he was the epitome of a knight in chivalry and deed. Targaeryan makes more sense to me, but i hope Jon doesn't become king or some shit.

>> No.19815425

>Nobody ever deserves to be raped

Clearly you've never read an NTR doujin.

>> No.19815430


Jon Snow might also be the son of a fisherman's daughter, or a servant in the Dayne household. The thing is, it's well known that Ned Stark is incredibly honorable, and well known that it's really weird for such a man to have a bastard, especially since he acknowledged him rather than sweeping him under the rug. People romanticize things that are unusual. When a piece doesn't fit the puzzle neatly, people assume there's a story there.

>> No.19815436

John would make a good king. Lawful like Stannis the Mannis, but, you know, GOOD as well.

>> No.19815440

One of them engaged in an openly incestuous relationship.

Hint: It wasn't Lancel.

And it was well-known, not a secret at all.

I'll let you figure out the rest. Please don't be so obtuse you can't figure it out yourself.

>> No.19815444


And I don't intend to, if I can avoid it.

>> No.19815451


I actually don't mean the one on one duels. Those are done well and the endless fucking trials by combat ensure Martin will stay sharp with those. I'm talking about more wartime battlefield deaths; you'd think we'd have had more by now with all the shit going down in Westeros.

>> No.19815453


Oh i know, but it just feels sue-ish to me... but the writing does make perfect sense, as Ned would only take a bastard under his wing since it was his Sister's dying wish, and why he never told Jon or anyone else his heritage makes perfect sense, lest Robert demand he kill the boy or Catelyn cast him out.

>> No.19815465


Jon would have the legitimacy of Maelys the Monstrous or Daemon Blackfyre anyway, wouldn't he? As in, none at all?

I wish we knew more about Maelys, the idea of conjoined twins being knights makes me wonder what his armor looked like.

>> No.19815473

Since we are on the subject of this game I have a question for you all. I want to make a character for an up coming SIFRP GoTE who is in a house that has pledged fealty to the group's house. How do I got about doing that without knowing the stats for the groups house?

pic related

>> No.19815485

Are you trying to tell me that Ned concluded the children were Jaime's because Jaime's father married his cousin, an act that was hardly viewed with the same anathema as sibling incest?

Hmn. I don't seem to recall that line of reasoning from Ned in the books. I'll keep an eye out next time I read them.

>> No.19815500


Agreed, after some thought, we could stand to see a few more of those. What about Loras Tyrell? We didn't see it from his viewpoint, and I'm not sure if he's dead yet, but he did get doused in boiling oil after being repeatedly wounded in battle.

>> No.19815502

"A King can remove the taint of bastardy... Jon Stark."

>> No.19815508


I thought Maelys was just a huge dick, as for the Blackfyres though he would have no legitimacy from that line, as they've tried several times to usurp the throne during the Targearyan's reign. But he is still a bastard regardless since he was born to Lyanna Stark by Rhaegar out of wedlock, he still has no legitimate claim that supercedes dany or aegon. But then again since the rebellion it's not like he couldn't just take the throne if he really wanted.

>> No.19815509

[no spoiler] also, did you really have to go through the whole obtuse "DO YOU EVEN READ THE BOOKS" "MAN HOW STUPID COULD YOU BE" "DO YOU EVEN READ THE BOOKS HERE I'LL ASK AGAIN"?

Your first post could have been, just, you know, "Tywin married his cousin."[/still none]

>> No.19815514


Great Tyrell conspiracy: he's not really that badly injured. The evidence for the grand Tyrell conspiracy is really strong.

>> No.19815520


It's been a while since I read the first book, but I think he had suspicions (the children had no non-Lannister features), which didn't make sense when reading through the genealogy tome, and then I'm pretty sure Cersei outright confirms it because she's a dumb cunt.

I think Stannis knew that they weren't Robert's children, but only started claiming incest after Ned made his accusation after Robert's death.

>> No.19815551


I could actually buy that, it's certainly what I want to be true, and Cersei hasn't exactly been subtle in trying to piss the Tyrells off as hard as she possibly can.

The Tyrells might actually be my favorite family, refusing to invest themselves completely until they have the chance to turn the tide and win is a smart move. The Lannisters have pretty much spent their load, after all, while the Tyrells are still Growing Strong.

>> No.19815578

I love how Cersei refuses to take the rumors of a silver-haired, purple-eyed girl with an army and three dragons seriously. She's so convinced that Margaery is the queen destined to undo her that she's completely ignoring the little dragoness who is obviously the fulfillment of the prophecy.

Assuming Grand Tyrell Conspiracy, who else is looking forward to Ser Loras showing up to defend Margaery at her trial?

>> No.19815588

highgarden got the shit reaved out of it by greyjoy

>> No.19815602

What. A. Cunt. I hate little self-entitled brats like her. I can't wait until it looks like she's about to do it, conquer Westros, put herself in her "rightful" place, and then ... she fails. Uterly and irevocably fails. Someone breaks her, her army, and then she goes and lives the rest of her life in obscurity. I don't care who does it. Couldn't care less about the setting anymore. When there are no good men, like the late Eddard Stark, than nobody wins. Just look at the choices.

>> No.19815616

>The thing is, it's well known that Ned Stark is incredibly honorable, and well known that it's really weird for such a man to have a bastard, especially since he acknowledged him rather than sweeping him under the rug.

Who said it is Ned's?

>I don't think the Sword of Dawn would have fucked lyanna stark, against the whole vows of a kingsguard and knight and such, and he was the epitome of a knight in chivalry and deed.

We are talking about Ashara Dayne.

>What's the argument for Dayne?

As you wish:

>Lady Ashara Dayne hung around with the Starks at the Tourney of Harrenhal
>According to Selmy, one of the Starks bedded her at the Tourney
>According to Selmy, one of the Starks got her with Child
>She was pregnant before she committed suicide
>Barristan Selmy believes that the child was a stillborn daughter
>Cersei Lannister and Catelyn Stark believe Ashara Dayne is Jon's mother
>Ned refuses to answer
>John was born at 283 AL
>Ashara Dayne committed suicide at 283 AL
>Edric Dayne told Arya that he was milk brothers with Jon Snow with the wet nurse Wylla (who is another theoretical mother, but could also be the wet nurse of Ashara Dayne)

This leaves the 3 Stark brothers as the father, however:

>Ned Stark would be out of character
>Brandon Stark died in 281 AL which would mean she carried the child for 2 years which is heavily unlikely

That leaves us with one more option:

Benjen Stark
>attended Tourney at Harrenhal with brothers
>was the Stark in Winterfell during Robert's Rebellion (282 AL to 283 AL)
>joined Night's Watch after for unknown reasons
>reminds Jon that men of the Night's Watch leave family and loyalties behind
>unknown birth and death

It's a possibility. But a farfetched one.

>> No.19815619

Not quiet. Highgarden is mostly safe, it being the seat of the Tyrell's power an all. However, the Reach did get hammered pretty bad by the Ironborn.

The Shield Islands were smashed, and there are now longships on the Mander, which means that nearly 60-75% of the Reach is now under threat of potential Ironborn attack at any time. This pins the armies of the Tyrells and their bannermen in place, being defensive to protect their fields, holdfasts, and smallfolk who had (until very recently) been mostly untouched during the War.

However, now with Paxter Redwyne and Lord Admiral, the naval power of the Arbor is unlocked, and will come hunting for whatever is left of the Greyjoys.... Sure, the Ironborn are tough, but numbers matter, and much and more of the power of the Reach survives, despite Stannis' horrific losses on the Blackwater.

>> No.19815620

There is a great secret. One that most people do not know.

The Prince Who Was Promised is not a sacred figure, but one of tragedy. He is the harbringer of annihilation, and will bring about the rebirth of the god of darkness.

Any that might bring it about must be extinguished. For the good of the kingdoms.

>> No.19815642


Yes, right now they effectively have their forces split in the seige of Dragonstone and protecting their own lands, and they will destroy the ironborn fleet unless Euron's plan plays out. Euron seems just a random insert character in the plot, little information and background on him and his motivations, and his plan seems hilariously unlikely to come to fruition.

>> No.19815650

>Implying Dany didn't start from nothing and earn everything she has.
>Implying you're not a showfag.
>Implying your disdain isn't rooted in sexism.
I see what you did there.

>> No.19815669


Euron, in spite of how delusional he is, seems to be one of the few players that realizes the stakes he's playing for and understands just what he must dare in order to win. Evil, crazy bastard yes, but he gets it.

>> No.19815676


Game of Thrones, Shoju vs. Littlefinger.

Who wins?

Conversely, Shoju vs. Varys. 'For the good of the Kingdom' grudge match.


>> No.19815699


But Dany DIDN'T earn a damn thing she has. Her dragons earned it all for her.

She just so happened to have an asshole coward brother who married her off to a barbarian to get an army to get back a kingdom that isn't his and then dies to said barbarian who then dies and leaves her with enough stuff to not die then she gets dragons and everything becomes OK, regardless of supposed 'consequences' of anything and everything that happens to her. She comes out smelling like roses at each turn. She is a sue. And I am a bookfag.

Get fucked, Danyfag.

>> No.19815703

thing you're forgetting:
aside from his cunning and ability for the game, he can straight up murder a dude, being one of the best swordsmen in the empire DESPITE his palsy.

he could outplay a young Tywin.

>> No.19815704

Never trust the guy who walks up to the table and places all his money on one bet. Because he either knows something you don't, or is cheating. If anyone thinks Euron doesn't have a giant, convoluted, amazing longshot of a plan, they aren't thinking critically. He took the throne for a reason... That reason might have been to get Victarion and the Iron Fleet to go fetch his bitch, or that could just be a stepping stone.

However, I do have to agree with you. He feels very much like "conveniently inserted plot hook" so far, but we haven't seen any chapters with him as the lead.

Ser Loras, or his brother, would turn nearly anyone (except a very short list, most of whom are dead) into a thin, red, smear of paste on the ground. What I am more interested in is if Jaime will return from his meeting with Catylen Tully. And yes, I said Tully because while the Starks are all "herp durp loyaltywinterwolves lol," they shouldn't be shamed by having their house's name associated with that walking failure of common sense, critical thinking, and basic judgement.

>> No.19815713


>Shoju vs. Littlefinger.

Shoju does his thing, and Littlefinger is incorporated into the plan or killed outright. Littlefinger is more likely to survive if Shoju doesn't turn on him, but Shoju doesn't tend to underestimate people the way most underestimate Littlefinger.

>Shoju vs. Varys

Close match, but I'd narrowly give it to Varys because Shoju is likely to die in combat because he actually does some of his own fighting.

>> No.19815730


She's a subversion of a Sue.

She's set up and acts like a Sue, but her Sue:ish ways just end up hurting everyone around her.

I would be seriously surprised if the current Dany ends up the winner of anything without going through some serious character development.

Basically, Dany's character is a setup to screw with us, just like Sansa.

>> No.19815745


I didn't forget.


I agree that Shoju would die, but he'd die in a way that makes Varys look like shit. Shoju 1, but dead, Varys 1/2 cause he lives.

Littlefinger vs. Shoju though... jury's still out with me on that one. Shoju by a hair so far, since Littlefinger might get forced to call a favor that Shoju has already plucked, if you catch my meaning.

>> No.19815750


Princely! I've been looking forward to your quest thread all week, and started reading the sourcebook myself, hoping to run a campaign with some friends soon.

>> No.19815756

So is there any weight to the Dayne theory of parenthood.

>> No.19815760

Oh, also:

Game of Thrones Quest on Thursday (all day) and possibly a Q+A session tomorrow night.

>> No.19815771

About as much as the Benjin or Rhaegar theories... They all have a chance at being true, but we will just have to wait and see for a minute.

>> No.19815772


>leading figures in two subsequent uprisings.

It's pretty ironic really.

>> No.19815773


Well, sadly others getting hurt doesn't affect one's 'sue' status; coming out of all situations smelling like roses regardless of the consequences, which you did not suffer, is the thing that defines the sue here.

Dany is a terrible character and, though I haven't read Dance yet, and I bet Jorah dies, I would LOVE for him to gut that bitch. I would. So dearly.

>> No.19815776


Awesome, i'll take some notes.

>> No.19815793

>Who said it is Ned's?

I know that, I'm personally of the mind that Jon is Lyanna and Rhaegar's son, I'm talking about the various stories of Jon Snow's parentage and how it shouldn't be surprising that they conflict.

>> No.19815828


Eh. Shoju vs Littlefinger is a bit anti-climactic in that Littlefinger wouldn't have much breathing room due to Shoju deliberately targeting people like Littlefinger as part of his MO.

On second though regarding both matchups though, Shoju had some pretty crippling emotional/psychological weaknesses no one ever got to capitalize on because he hid them too well. If Varys or Littlefinger figured out that he was secretly an ugly cripple who wasn't the father of his own son, they'd play him like a fiddle.


Story Logic: fuck yeah.

Narrative Logic: conventional reader/writer wisdom dictates R+L=J.

>> No.19815834

Considering the Starks are loyal until you literally start murdering off the heads of their house, I wouldn't feel too much irony in that statement. And when someone comes to kill your dad, you stop them: If it was you, maybe you grab a knife or a gun. When you are Warden of the North, you call the banners. Its like a knife, but just a touch bigger.

You pay me honors I don't deserve. But thanks.

Some friends and I were sitting around, watching the show as it moved into the second season where we realized it had jumped the rails and was in brand fucking new territory. We started kicking around ideas that would be fun to watch, or just stupid, when my buddies gal said that she had wanted Arya and Gendry to run off and get married and shit. Which then meant that their first son would probably be heir to the North and the Stormlands. Mind=totally blown

>> No.19815845


Shame is though Gendry is a bastard, and unless he's the only surviving bastard(ie edric Storm dies) and Stannis dies...

>> No.19815854

>Stannis Broatheon

fucking dropped

>> No.19815870


He ain't exactly in a good place at the end of the fifth book, got a whole host marching from Winterfell to fuck his shit up at a lone tower in the middle of a frozen desert.

>> No.19815898

I've never understood the Sue accusation against Dany. She has dragons. Big fucking deal. Somebody had to have dragons, or there wouldn't be dragons, and dragons are awesome. She's 13 when the books start, and female, so yeah, she gets married off. However, unlike her shitstain of a brother, she actually makes the best of a bad situation and goes on to free several thousand slaves. And as far as 'her dragons did it for her': Drogon killed a grand total of like seven people. And the dragons got a bunch of people on her case and sending assassins after her.

She doesn't have unreasonable magical powers; she's fireproof. Wow. Apparently there's a precedent for that in her family. She wins and loses. She puts her people before herself, unlike ANY OTHER ROYAL IN THE FUCKING SERIES, and gets fucked over at every turn, by warlocks, that faggot husband of hers, etc. And she ends Dance of Dragons walking through the fucking desert with the shits.

>> No.19815936


Not to mention no one seems to remember the fact she spent her whole youth with Viserys running across the free cities from agents of the Usurper, having to scrape a living wherever they could. I don't find her that sue'ish, she has payed the price for her mistakes and has flaws and shortcomings, everything a real person has.

>> No.19815967

shes a sue on paper. in the sense that if you stated her out and wrote down her description and brought her to your average dnd group that plays in a low fantasy setting your DM would slap you across your face.

>13 year old lost princess
>white hair
>pale skin
>violet eyes
>blood of dragons
>immune to fire
>sold off to barbarian king
>raped by said king but earned his love
>lost her son and husband because a witch saw he was going to be ruler of the world and made her miscarry
>in a setting where there are no more dragons she finds and hatches 3 dragon eggs.

she's written very really well but she has damn near all the mary sue characteristics.

>> No.19815986

CAn someone post StannisTheMannis Muppet version.jpg please? Thanks in advance

>> No.19815990

From the point of view of the show, Edric Storm probably doesn't exist. That, or he was killed with the rest of the bastards.

Remember, we are talking about the show logic, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.

>> No.19816000


Read the books again. Everything she gets, the dragons give to her. they don't kill many of her enemies, or do much of anything, but they don't have to. they get here everything by EXISTING, and BEING HERS.

Quarth? Dragons.
Slaves? Dragons.
Khalissar (sp)? Dragons.
eunich army? (forgot the name)? dragons

Name me one thing she did that was notable that didn't involve her dragons somehow making the situation workable and I will give you an internet. Hell, Selmy and Strong Belwas end up with her because dragons.

when Dany tries to make decisions, she does things like Trail of Tears her khallisar through a wasteland, or get her loving husband killed. Which, oddly enough, always leads to her smelling like roses. She 'suffers' as a stepping stone to the next great thing falling into her lap, and she's never, ever as badly off as those around her. When you have a bubble around you that prevents the suffering of others from affecting you, you are a mary-fucking-sue.

GRRM inserted her for whatever reason, but she is what she is. And I for one hate her, and at the same time, am beginning to dislike where the story is going. Fuck Dany, Jon Snow, Arya, and every other character that finds gold in the pile of shit every time, and will continue to do so for the remainder of the series.

Only Arya has any redeeming characteristics whatsoever, and I still hate her. Sure she's suffered more than the other two, but she's still not paying enough of a price for what she's going to get. And you can't even tell me you don't see her getting her prayers answered, literally.

of course, this is all my opinion. feel free to disregard.

>> No.19816044

>from TVTropes: The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.

Her hair and eye color are weird, except when you take into account EVERY OTHER TARGARYEN EVER.

Her talents/powers include: fireproof. End of list. In a world with warriors who can take down legions of men, a King who is believed to be a reincarnated Zoroaster clone, who is served by a priestess who can see the future, summon shadows to do her bidding, AND IS FIREPROOF. HER ONE POWER ISN'T EVEN UNIQUE!!!! Aside from that she is pretty and of above average intelligence and charisma (in a world with an illiteracy rate akin to medieval England).

Her flaws include that she's horny, immature, useless in combat, hotheaded. Also naive and has too big a heart (I'll grant you THAT one is meant to be endearing).

The only Sue characteristic, really, is that she has dragons. And she has dragons because Martin wanted dragons in the book (after being convinced by a friend or family member, if his dedications are to be believed) and she was the character who made sense to have them.

>> No.19816126

Hating Dany for using her dragons is like yelling at Jaime for stabbing things instead of using his fists. They're a tool, and so far she's held them back; refusing to use them to destroy the fleet, refusing to use them in battle. She tricked the seller of the unsullied into handing over his army -- that was guile, the dragon in that case was a fucking prop. She took Mereen by turning the free companies against it -- that was guile again, and just a smidge of inappropriate sexy.

Also, Jon Snow gets stabbed by his black brothers at the end of Dance. After being sent to sit on a wall of ice for the rest of his life because he was born out of wedlock. You have a serious problem identifying Mary Sues.

>> No.19816198


Techically, all of the Targaryens are written as either semi-to full Sues or raving madmen. That's the point of that family. They are supposed to be this ever wonderful clan of ubermench that shits gold and smells of roses.

>> No.19816214


I'd add a caveat, though, Shoju didn't do nearly enough to ensure Kisada was actually going to support him. Then again, with the sheer level of propriety in Rokugan, he couldn't exactly go to him and offer an alliance the way Renly did to Ned Stark, he underestimated Kisada and paid for it.

>> No.19816219

Except they aren't. Rhaegar seems to be a Gary Stu because he's fucking dead and therefore perceived as better than Jesus. And due to my post, you are all now aware that Stannis the Mannis is more Sue than Dany.

>> No.19816245

>stillborn child
>dead husband
>brother died miserably
>the people she spared when she took their city tried to kill her and her dragon

I'm calling bullshit on you.

>> No.19816271


Led by callow, fat Ramsay SNOW. This is Stannis Baratheon, he's chewed up real leaders and shat out pieces bigger than Ramsay, and the letter Jon got was a fake, I've heard.

Also, Aurane Waters is about to deliver Stannis a brand-spanking new fleet, and a flagship whose figurehead boosts the perky tits of King's Landing's biggest cunt.

>> No.19816318


ASOIAF isn't grimdark enough for you? Wow.

Dany uses her dragons because her dragons are what she's got. That's her unique weapon. She's the one who double-crossed the slavemasters. She's the one who freed the Unsullied. She's the one who led her Khalasar across the Grass Sea. She's the one who conquered most of Ghis. Not her dragons. Her.

That's like claiming that Longclaw did everything for Jon Snow.

>> No.19816333


Didn't Barristan imply that Rhaegar was good at fighting, but not great, or am I misremembering?

>> No.19816356

Obviously he wasn't as good as Robert. Still, everyone remembers him as charming, handsome, kind, skilled at fighting (like the story of him winning the tourney and crowning Lyanna wasn't told to death), dutiful, etc. Because he's fucking dead.

>> No.19816362

My favorite scene in the books was when Jaime just casually backhands the fuck out of Red Ronnet in the bearpit.

"You're speaking of a highborn lady, ser. Her name is Brienne."

I'd been waiting for the golden pimphand ever since he got it, and he did not disappoint.

>> No.19816378


I actually wonder about the tournament, too, it's been shown repeatedly that beating a dickbag lord's son in front of him is a good way to earn his enmity, and Aerys II was the dickbag of all dickbags.

>> No.19816503


If I recall correctly he only won the joust. Jousts were more important because they were exciting. People loved the shit out of that stuff. Hence why people act like he won the tourney when he only won one event. There was also a seven sided melee (that I believe Robert won), an archery contest, a horse race, an axe throwing contest, and some other shit.

>> No.19816534


Fun fact: Seven sided melee is a much more valuable skill than jousting in real combat.

>> No.19816970

Read the books again. Everything he gets, the assassinations give to him. they don't kill many of his enemies, or do much of anything, but they don't have to. they get here everything by EXISTING, and BEING HIS.

John Arryn? assassinations.
Harrenhall? assassinations.
Joffrey (sp)? assassinations.
mountain of the moon castle? (forgot the name)? assassinations

Name me one thing he did that was notable that didn't involve his assassinations somehow making the situation workable and I will give you an internet. Hell, Sansa and Lord Robert end up with him because assassinations.

when Littlefinger tries to make decisions, he does things like get ned towardshis death, or get lysa to go near the door. Which, oddly enough, always leads to him smelling like roses. He 'suffers' as a stepping stone to the next great thing falling into his lap, and he's never, ever as badly off as those around him. When you have a bubble around you that prevents the suffering of others from affecting you, you are a mary-fucking-sue.

GRRM inserted him for whatever reason, but he is what he is. And I for one hate him, and at the same time, am beginning to dislike where the story is going. Fuck Littlefinger, Varys, Tywin, and every other character that finds gold in the pile of shit every time, and will continue to do so for the remainder of the series.

Only Tywin has any redeeming characteristics whatsoever, and I still hate him. Sure he's suffered more than the other two, but he's still not paying enough of a price for what he's going to get. And you can't even tell me you don't see him getting Tyrion's prayers answered, literally.

of course, this is all my opinion. feel free to disregard.
And for this I respect you.

>> No.19817146

So, when do you think Zombie Jon Snow is gonna get up and start raping shit? Before or after he is buried.

>> No.19817181

Are Polearms any good?

Also, does anyone know the actual rules to jousting? All I know is that two dudes charge at each other with tourney lances, and if you fall off your horse you lose.

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