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19766525 No.19766525 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Hey /tg/, I'm just starting out in the 6th edition of Warhammer 40k. I've been painting the minis for 10 years but I've never played a game, so I think it's time to change that.
Blood Angels have always been my favorite army aesthetics and fluff wise so I'm sticking with them. I'm trying my best to make a list that includes 60 assault marines, which comes out to 1410 points and they'll be accompanied by 3 sanguinary priests. Problem is, I don't know the 6th edition meta at all. Is max assault marines viable now?
tl;dr Will a blood angels army consisting of 60 assault marines get raped?

>> No.19766571
File: 143 KB, 800x600, BAterm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19766571

I guess I'll start posting some art in the meantime

>> No.19766577

Actually, Infantry are more powerful in 6th edition. 6 squads of scoring units with meltas and plasmas, and powerfists.
Just you might have problems against really shooty armies.

>> No.19766591
File: 234 KB, 1280x1180, BAassault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19766591

>> No.19766609

feel no pain is now a 5 plus I believe, So The sanguinary priests might not be as cost effective.

>> No.19766622

>>19766609
5+, but you get it against anything that doesn't inflict Instant Death. So it's a weaker save, but harder to deny.

>> No.19766635

Ahhh.
I guess it works then. Who will be your HQ?

>> No.19766664
File: 146 KB, 800x528, GATHERING OF ANGELS_edit_by_gorlak.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19766664

>>19766577
That was my thought process, I think I'll have the most trouble with mech and blob armies. A friend of mine will be fielding about 7 necron flyers in his list, I couldn't imagine how that would pan out..

>> No.19766704
File: 677 KB, 704x1013, sonsofsanguiniusbymajes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19766704

>>19766635
My first choice was the Sanguinor, but he seems far too expensive. To be honest I'm not entirely sure what would be synergistic with a full on assault army such as this. I would appreciate any advice given however

>> No.19766722

That might be really bad >>19766664
honestly, I would run a devestator squad or predators with las against him. otherwise It might be a slaughterfest.

>> No.19766723
File: 731 KB, 800x1151, tycho.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19766723

>> No.19766769

for 6th edition, Mephiston would probably be a good choice. He is a powerful psyker and can move 12 inches with the assault squads. he is expensive though, No HQ really gives a bonus to assault squads.,
Thought about A dreadnaught with a drop pod? bloodlances wreck shit up.

>> No.19766786
File: 120 KB, 600x450, 1338929997340.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19766786

Tau allies with Railguns. They might be a good choice,

>> No.19766804
File: 235 KB, 500x333, UNACKSEPTABULLLL.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19766804

>>19766664
>Imperial Fists logos everywhere

>> No.19766805
File: 148 KB, 593x702, baas.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19766805

>>19766722
What would you arm them with? A full lascannon squad, while probably the most effective, will be by far the most effective as far as I know.
He crunched some numbers and came to the conclusion that a single dark lance has a 2% chance to kill a night scythe, 6 8% chance to pen 2^ chance to glance. That's not even counting Doesn't count jink or stealth/shroud. Sounds so broken.

>> No.19766806

>>19766525
Yes, I love Blood Angels as much as the next Khrone worshipper, but assaults and BA got nerfed.

In addition to the normal assault nerfs, you lose I5 on charge from Furious Charge. Assault Marines are kind of meh right now to be honest.

>> No.19766881

>>19766806
It's true, due to the initiative reduction you end up losing a lot more models in combat now, and overwatch doesn't help. You also never really get to use Hammer for those I10 attacks since it limits your movement too much.

>> No.19766886
File: 166 KB, 428x599, 428px-Codex_Angels_of_Death_FCover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19766886

>>19766806
I thought with impact hits given to jump pack assaults made them better, maybe I was wrong? If that's the case then it seems this army isn't nearly as effective as I had thought...
>>19766769
I hadn't thought of Mephiston, but I'm in dire need of a psyker. If I can recall correctly a psyker is REQUIRED in an army nowadays. I feel like every character that BA get are overpriced sadly. One dread? You don't think as soon as it peeks it's sarcophagus around a corner it'll get penned?

>> No.19766929
File: 13 KB, 251x201, spacepalm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19766929

>>19766881
Goddamn

And here I was thinking it wasn't a half bad list, but come realization it's not that great an army to begin with? That's rather disheartening

>> No.19766937

>>19766886
The impacts hits are pretty weak in the first place, and if you do go for them you limit your movement since you have to pick you want to use the jetpacks to assault or to move with. And you want to use them for movement most of the time to make sure you get as close as possible to the enemy due to random charge range (worst thing ever is to lose a model to overwatch and fail a charge).

Combined with the fact that you don't get to strike at initiative 5 anymore, you end up losing significantly more models in assaults.

6 edition is kind of a big fuck you to BA, fast is ruined, no DoA, assault and FC nerfs, but hey, you can spam fliers after you buy the new models! FUCK YEAH, GW!

Honestly, if you want to an assault army that won't fold like paper and actually can win assaults you may want to consider Grey Knights, or wait for the Chaos Dex to see how World Eaters shape up.

>> No.19767005

>>19766937
It sounds like the entire movement phase would be a huge pain in the ass. New flyers? You mean the ones that were released a month or so ago, right? I don't think blood angels even get them.
I might take your advice and wait for Chaos, I'm also a big fan of Nurgle and Khorne isn't too shabby either. Grey knight interceptors didn't get nerfed with the new edition?

>> No.19767036

>>19766929
I meant Stormravens, which are pretty damn good now, as are most fliers.

>> No.19767061

>>19767005
Also, don't feel discouraged, a full Jet Pack army is very fluffy, and while it was probably more effective in 5th, it can still be fun in 6th, which is probably what counts the most when it comes to playing an army for most people.

It requires more finesses now, and they aren't as killy as before, but they can still get the job done.

>> No.19767074
File: 382 KB, 673x436, blood_angels.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19767074

>>19767036
Ah ok. Yeah, I've heard Sravens got alot better but they're rather expensive, right?

>> No.19767108

>>19767074
Model or point wise? Nevermind, it's yes to both. They may be expensive, and we still have to see how AA will work and who gets what, but it is possible and even likely that fliers in general will rule the meta, and Ravens are pretty decent fliers.

>> No.19767143

http://www.3plusplus.net/2012/07/blood-angels-in-6th-initial-analysis.html

A decent first look at BA in 6th

A Librarian makes a decent HQ considering that it's a psyker and that you're able to give it a jump pack

The DC is also worth taking a look at

>> No.19767170

>>19767061
The problem is with playing for fun, literally everyone at my LGS plays tournament tier lists that are built with utmost discrepancy. Most of these people have been playing as long as I've known about the game, even more so on some accounts. I'm trying to find a good army and make a good list so I have a chance, but I don't want to just copy their lists. As much as I want to play something different and new, I'm finding it more and more likely I won't be able to beat their vendetta/nightscythe spam lists.

>> No.19767180

Just so OP knows, the op pic isnt a blood angel. Its a blood raven....the more you know

>> No.19767212

>>19767180

That's pretty clearly a Blood Angel. I really hope you're just being daft on purpose.

>> No.19767225

>>19767212
Black shoulder rims with bone coloured pauldrons? Carrying a fuckton of blood angel gear?
Yep, its a blood raven.

>> No.19767239

I would avoid the 2000 point lists for now. Keep it at 1500 and make that all you own (about 1700 with options to change out models).

Twin lists are pretty mean when a new player has to face a veteran with such a thing. A list full of 30 dark reapers and such is pretty uncool for an army like yours to face.

So scale it down to a 1500 point list and have at least one long ranged vehicle to force multiple option firepower to fire at your tank rather than your troops. It could save you points in the long run. Such as lasguns+lascannon guard who forgo lasguns to fire lascannon(that would eat a marine) at your tank to protect his tanks from it.

Laspredator is an optional must to many marine armies.

>> No.19767249
File: 109 KB, 750x600, 553241474574812.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19767249

>>19767180

The Blood Raven's symbol is a blood droplet within a raven and the picture in the OP clearly shows a blood droplet with wings.

The winged chalice on the pauldrons is also a Blood Angels symbol.

>> No.19767290

>>19767143
Ugh.. Wow, that's sad. The negatives most certainly shit all over the 'positives'.
I don't mean to be pessimistic but I'm having trouble seeing light through this.

>> No.19767291

>>19767249
No, it doesn't. Unless you mean the chest which is obviously just a variation of the aquila.
Anyway, explain why a Blood Angel would have those shoulder pads.
Also the squad markings are on the knee, and a friend of mine, who is very into Blood Ravens, tells me that the Blood Ravens are known for doing this.

>> No.19767310

>>19767290
Be a better player then.

>> No.19767323

>>19767291
The black rimmed white shoulderpads are blood raven colours, but its covered in blood angel iconography. All i can say is that maybe thats a suit thats been "gifted in a ceremonial trade of arms"

>> No.19767335

>>19767310
I wouldn't even consider myself a player since I've never played a game of 40k in my life.

>> No.19767341
File: 49 KB, 300x392, 1302124888480.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19767341

>>19767291
>>19767225
>>19767180

>> No.19767344

>>19767180
>I've played Dawn of War, I know about 40K.

>> No.19767352

>>19767291
A great many chapters put squad markings on the knee. That and the blood ravens don't use the blood drop as extensively as the blood angels do, such as on the chainsword.

>> No.19767374
File: 97 KB, 854x711, Its Blood Angellic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19767374

>>19766525
>>19766525

>> No.19767382

>>19767323

Just because the shoulders are not red doesn't mean it isn't a blood angel. It could be a veteran that decorated his suit to his personal taste. Besides the artist who made that calls him a blood angel.

>> No.19767385

OP here, since BA seem to be a less viable option which army would you guys suggest? I don't like being a fairweather faggot but when you're playing against people like at my LGS you can't exactly play an ok list and expect to win. These guys are serious metagamers. And it's not even like they're mouth breathing neckbeards, they're really cool people but have a FIRM understanding of the rules.

>> No.19767402
File: 22 KB, 180x203, 180px-Blood_Raven.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19767402

>>19767374
No, this is a blood angel.
Plebs.

>> No.19767433

>>19767225
>Carrying a fuckton of blood angel gear?
It was a gift.

>> No.19767440

>>19767385

When it comes down to vastly more experienced players, it doesn't really matter to much what army you pick. At least with what I've seen. It's best to just pick an army you like, for whatever reason, and learn how to play it.

>> No.19767459

>>19767385
Just go with vanilla marines if you want to be more flexible, or Grey Knights, since with some google-fu you can make horribly overpowered squads. I'm talking terminators that all have two wounds, cover saves, and make assaults go through difficult terrain.

>> No.19767463

>>19767440
This +9001.
You're gonna lose no matter what, OP. Just stop being a bitch and learn how to play your army right.

>> No.19767481

>>19767440
I understand that it will be a steep uphill battle, but some armies will have me better off than others right? I hear tyranids aren't bad at all now

>> No.19767515

>>19767385
If you like it, just do it.

In 40K the gap between a "good" and a "bad" unit is small. I've fielded all sorts of units and great many of them are what many would consider "bad" and done just fine.

Only if all the other people playing did nothing but jump on the latest flavor of the month with cheesed up list, would you have trouble. There's a lot of talk about flyers and stuff, but apart from my Valkyries, I don't know anyone even thinking of throwing money on a bunch of new units just because they're "good". People usually play with what they got.


Most important is that you got an army you're fine with and which plays the way you want it to play. Through experience you can make it work the way you want it, regardless of what the meta says it best.

>> No.19767523

>>19767481

Some armies are easier to break, yes, but if an army has someone who knows how to play it they can win against anything. Hell, I know a tau player who beat our local grey knight player just because he knew how to play his army.

>> No.19767565

>>19767523
This can't be true. Any details?

>> No.19767583

>>19767515
The problem is a majority of players have new armies to assure success in the 6th, as I've stated previously with flyerspam.
Here's a list a friend of mine is running, 1850 points

2 overlords on cmd barge warsctyhe one with 3++
5 units of 8 warriors in night scythes
2 courts with solar pulse tek
2 doom scythes

>> No.19767586

>>19767481
You can never go wrong with Marines. GW loves them too much to fuck them up completely and they're forgiving to play with. Also, you don't need lots of models.

Not to forget cheap. Assault on Black Reach Marines x2 = tad short of 1200pts. without upgrades.

>> No.19767629

>>19767565

The grey knight player was just starting out and had picked his army according to what he heard was winning.
The tau player has been playing for years and even though he loses against most of us regulars, he puts up an impressive fight.

It was funny to watch, this kid had some list he pulled off some site but not instructions on how to play it. He didn't have good target selection and was bad at maneuvering his units. The tau guy just danced around him and shot him to shit.

>> No.19767651

>>19767523
I have a friend who took Tau to a tournament (never played with them before) and came second.

>>19767583
Well, it's nice to have spare money to throw around. If you're not willing to redo your army every edition, stick to basics. They never go old. I assure you, what's hot now won't be so in the next edition/codex, and the internets will be alive with the sound of whining.

Since 3rd ed. one thing that has always stayed as useful have been my Infantry Platoons, autocannon sentinels and Leman Russes. The rest comes and goes and I usually pick them to suit the opponent or mood I'm in.

>> No.19767692

OP, Necrons are the new Grey Knights if you want a strong army in 6th. If you want to stick to Marines, Grey Knights are still pretty good all around despite some nerfs here and there (almost everyone got nerfed hard though aside from Necrons).

The upcoming Chaos Dex may is a mystery still rule wise, but possibly a Khorne army can count as BA pending on the rules. I hear it's written by Ward, so it's gonna be OP as fuck and probably meta viable.

>> No.19767712

>>19767692
Do you know how necron monoliths have fared in the new edition? I've always wanted to make an army with like 2-3

>> No.19767730

>>19767692
It isn't written by Ward. That was a rumour a while ago but I believe GWS revealed someone else as main writer of the new chaos dex. Don't know remember, though.

>> No.19767734

>>19767583
Doomscythes can't dodge and shoot the bigass gun.
Random fact I learned yesterday, don't even play necrons.

>> No.19767761

Space Wolves are still mostly fine in 6th if you want a new marine army, and THUNDER WOLFLRY WOLVEN OF WOLFING WOLF got better too. Their psykers own too.

>> No.19767775

>>19767761
I though TWolf cav got nerfed?

>> No.19767780

>>19767730
Noooo, there goes my dream of canon Khorne Sorcerors....

>> No.19767787

>>19767583
I love lists like this. You're going to hold objectives with 5-man, unprotected infantry units? How quaint.

>> No.19767797
File: 35 KB, 300x390, St.Sabbat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19767797

I have been thinking about picking up the new rulebook and digging my Witch hunters army out of closet. I have a few questions, are Seraphim worth using now or at least not complete shit? I've also heard about the power weapon changes does the blessed weapon benefit from these changes? Finally should I go find the white dwarf pdf or just keep using my rulebook.

>> No.19767852

>>19766525
dont forget, Rage gets +2 Attacks now as well.

>> No.19767918

>>19767775
Their charge range is a bit worse, but they are mostly the same.

In any case, if you want to assault with Marines, you want Assault Terminators, and BA can give them a FNP of 5+ in additon to their 3++ vs AP 2 and S9 on the charge. So BA can have some amazing Assault Termies, though you do pay for it.

>> No.19767969

It's not even that assaulting is worse, you just have to go about it in a different way than before. Just a shift in tactics is all.

>> No.19767979

>>19767730

I think Kelly is writing it

>> No.19768001

>>19767969
Random assault range, overwatch, and lack of I5 for BA means assaulting is a lot worse for them.

>> No.19768108

>>19768001

They may not be the rape train they were, but by no means are they bad. The random assault range is 2d6 so it still comes out ~6 or more, overwatch can only be done once per turn so there is a way around it. No I5, so what? It just means you can't just point to an enemy an let them off the leash. It requires a little more forethought than that anyway.

>> No.19768412

>>19768108
The random assault may give you extra range, but it may as well fuck as you roll a 1 and a 2 and reroll to to snake eyes. Before you knew what you are getting yourself into, now you have the potential of wasting a whole turn and letting the enemy shoot you to death or counter-assault (which sucks for everyone by SW).

Overwatch may be once a turn, but again, before there was no overwatch.

>No I5, so what?
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

So the best part of playing BA assault army got fucked. No I5 is huge, because it means you end up losing a lot more models per assault then you used to. Now you are paying 50-100+ points

I don't see how this is even debatable, BA assaults got weaker in 6th.

>> No.19768489

>>19768412

I'm not debating that assaulting got a kick in the dick compared to what it was. But it's nowhere near as bad as people are making it out to be.

Besides, assaulting is still a potent method of attack, it just requires more planning and thought than before. You can't just throw assault units at a problem to make it go away. And overwatch allows dakka armies a chance to cause a little damage before being bent over and having a chainsword shoved up their asses.

>> No.19768604

>>19768489
I'm not saying the whole army is worthless, but it took a huge hit compared to some other armies. And it can't really be considered viable as an "assault army." Not that a JP only list was super competitive before, but it was fluffy and capable. Now it's just fluffy.

>> No.19768648

>>19768604

I think once 6th has been out for a while and gotten used to, the blood angels will learn to assault with the same ferocity they used to. They just won't do it the same way as in 5th.

>> No.19768686

>>19768648
Would be nice, but I'm afraid that they aren't just as cost-effective as they used to be. I'd rather relay on GH packs if I want an (semi) assault themed army.

But BA Assault Hammernators with a priest can be quite scary. S9, 2+ or 3++ with a 5+ FNP vs virtually everything if the first save fails.

>> No.19768701

How is the lack of I5 gonna affect TH&SS Termies exactly?

>> No.19768737

>>19768701
It isn't, who says it does?

>> No.19768766

>>19768686
Does Descent of Angels work with terminators?

>> No.19768803

>>19768686

It's all a matter of finding a way to make the most of them. Use them as more of a spearhead and not a sledgehammer. Use them to punch holes in certain units while you use your other units to keep the flanks clear.

>> No.19768823

>>19768766
No, because they don't have that special rules in their entry.

>> No.19768942

What's the new rule with the stormraven when you fire weapons and move? Or fire all weapons and move, whatever it is

>> No.19769085

>>19768942

I think it's

Stationary- all
Combat-4
Cruising- 4

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