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[ERROR] No.19759745 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Is there any way to make combat fun for a bard?

Or is that just the curse of being a bard, that fighting is lame and stupid.

>> No.19759760

Clearly you need to turn the enemy to your side with the sheer power of your music rather then fight them.

>> No.19759763

>>19759745
Be less of a cunt.

>> No.19759764

Play an edition that doesn't suck.

>> No.19759770

>>19759763
my party members are the cunts

they wouldn't know a diplomatic solution if it sat on their face and sucked their dicks

>> No.19759771

The bard's lute is actually made out of shotguns.

Which explains why it sounds so awful.

>> No.19759774

The power of music can win any battle!

>> No.19759778

Harp Bow

>> No.19759780

With the power of love and a catchy tune, any battle can be won! Let nothing stand in your way, even death and betrayl!

>> No.19759785

>>19759780
>>19759774
Who the fuck just watched Robotech and why are they spamming us with Imperium vs threads?

>> No.19759788

BeepBoop-Just kill them all with hypnosis and combat drones.

>> No.19759790

>>19759760
>Macross Seven
mah nigga
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga_aTC1MCY0
>>19759785
>Robotech
>Not Macross
Are you really that stupid?

>> No.19759804

>Is there any way to make combat fun for a bard?
Like this...

>> No.19759819

>>19759745
Song of the Heart
Words of Creation
Dragonfire Inspiration
Inspirational Boost

Now! Sing the song that ends the earth!

>> No.19759829

Crystal Echoblade

>> No.19759833

>>19759819
>Sing the song that ends the earth
Okay.

>> No.19761030

Okay, since OP doesn't seem to come, I'll just ask this:

PF, starting at lvl 6 - and I'm going to play Bard - however I'm torn between three choices right now:
- Regular Gnome Bard, no Archetype for maximum utility and Performance Shenanigans (I'd have 25 rounds of performance already) and also of course all the skill from versatile performance (thing is, we may or may not have a rogue, so the skill monkey slot is already taken)
- Human Arcane Duelist with a Bastard Sword and Strength, his alternate features look neat, as well as Bladethirst, which gives free Keen to everybody and I'd get medium (and heavy sometime in the future) armour - of course I'd sacrifice all the utility gained from versatile performance etc
- Halfling Dervish Dancer - maximum dex, a sweet scimitar and cool full attacks but again with no utility

The question is, can I make a competent melee attacker with the archetypes (or is the Magus the go to class for that flavour)? Or should I stick with bard and inspire the shit out of my team as well as mainly assist with spells?
I'm kinda torn on what to actually think of the bard - gish? supporter? What kind of role does he have?

have some bardy girls in return

>> No.19761036

>>19759778
You mean this?

>> No.19761075

>>19761030

>> No.19761092

>>19761075

>> No.19761100

>>19761092

>> No.19761114

>>19761100

>> No.19761133

I play a bard, and I've noticed the GM is more lenient on my combat rolls, to let me actually feel like I'm contributing.
Feels bad man.

>> No.19761139

>>19761114

>> No.19761141

Fighting IS lame and stupid, especially compared to picking up hot chicks at the Inn.

>> No.19761142

>>19761139

>> No.19761159

>>19761142

>>19761141
Now you have reminded me once again that I can't find that one video with Kanyee the giant who gets some bitches at the clu- inn and makes the GM leave through this

>> No.19761179

>>19761159

>> No.19761213

>>19761179

>> No.19761217

>>19761213

>> No.19761228

>>19761217

>> No.19761243

>>19761228

>> No.19761269

>>19761243

>> No.19761313

>>19761030
Oh and also would it make sense to pick TWF with the Dervish Dancer/bard in general? The Dervish Dancers power are his full attacks, so it could make sense

>> No.19761314

If you're doing something as base and gormless as fighting then you're doing it wrong. A bard kicks ass with nothing more than a winning smile, an endless supply of wit and when all else fails, a face-melting lute solo.

Observe in pic related how the incognito bard doesn't just turn around and decapitate the uppity banana, but owns it in a far more profound way.

>> No.19761361

>>19761314
Man, if that security guard didn't get a BJ within the hour of doing that, there's no justice in the world.

>> No.19761692

>>19761314
No other ideas than simply staying out of combat? (and since this D&D-world, this is nigh impossible)

>> No.19761763

>>19761692

>> No.19761774

>>19759745
>Is there any way to make combat fun for a bard?

What's unfun about it for you?

The last D&D game I played, combat was essentially: the bard and cleric lay down their phat buffs, the wizard does battlefield control, and the multiclassed fighter/barbarian wrecks everything with his greatsword.

The rogue was the one who felt useless in a fight, because all he brought was DPS, but by the time he reached the enemies the fighter/barbarian had already zoomed across the battlefield and cleaved through everything -- and even when they were in the thick of things, the naked fact was that the fighter/barbarian could hit harder, more frequently, and more reliably.

>> No.19761820

In all honesty, I had the most fun playing a bard. Lay down buffs with normal bard levels, debuffs with dirgesinger, I once even completely avoided an encounter due to one of my songs.

>> No.19761999

>>19761774

>>19761030 here, but what do I do beside laying down buffs? I mean starting the performance and maybe one or two spells is fine and all, but what do I do AFTER? This is also why I am interested in the Archetypes, since I have the feeling they'd give me more viability in combat

>> No.19762176

>>19761999

>> No.19762212

>>19762176
failed Diplomacy check or successful Intimidate?
You decide!

>> No.19762246

It's called playing 4E. You know, the edition where EVERYBODY gets to have fun.

>> No.19762275

>>19762246
But this is /tg/

>> No.19762302

multiclas to barbarian, call yourself a skald, axe everything! ???? profit


... that how i do it

>> No.19762306

2 bucklers
1 whip
1 rapier
sing/dance
cast awesome spells

>> No.19762308

>>19762302
I believe the technical term is Bardbarian

>> No.19762350

>>19762212

>> No.19762375

>>19761092

I just watched frontiers two movies not long ago. Should I check into the original? That opening looked pretty stellar

Sage because my question has nothing to do with /tg/

>> No.19762377

>>19762212
I'm okay with strange outfits, but why does the girl on the left have a pyramid-turtle resting on top of her cleavage?

>> No.19762407

There is a Skald class if I remember right, in 4e. I'm not actually sure what it does, but from what I read it's a bard/barbarian hybrid class. Anyone confirm this?

I mainly ask as I said I'd play as one in my first ever D&D game in a week's time and have yet to find out what they do, as I don't own the books, and can't find a nice concise summary of the class anywhere. Are they worth playing? Anything that makes them inferior to a bard?

>> No.19762418

>>19762246
but people who play bards don't deserve to have fun

>> No.19762434

>>19761030

Go human bard, no archetype. Play the trip maestro.

Feats: Weapon finesse from Human, then Combat expertise, improved trip, and fury's fall.

This gets double your dex to your cmb for trips if you are using a trip weapon. Guess what, bard's get proficiency whip. Grab a rapier for damage but really, you shouldn't have to use it. When you can, get a dueling weapon from Pathfinder Society Field Guide. This ups your CMB further.

Put all your points into Dex and just enough into cha to cast your spells. Look through the SRD for good immediate action first level spells to help the party out of turn. On your turn trip the world.

Tell your party melee fighters to get combat reflexes because you're going to grab Greater Trip as soon as possible. Feed the people who do the real deeps even more free attacks.

With human if you feel like your spell list is too low, sacrifice some skill points to snag more known spells.

Oh and your inspire courage bonus effects your CMB.

>> No.19762485

>>19762434
Wow thanks, that's something I hadn't even remotely considered! Will definitely look into that!

>> No.19762505

>>19762485
also some more jubblies for your trouble

>> No.19762519

>>19762505

>> No.19762538

>>19759745
I played as a bard who specialized in grappling and hand to hand combat. He was a Mexican wrestler, I thought that fit pretty well with the whole entertainer/warrior thing. I once grappled an owlbear and threw it on the ground and dragged it around. DM wouldn't let me lift it over my head.

>> No.19762622

>>19762407

>Starting a new campaign 4E
>Decided to make a heavy metal Skald teifling
>Guitar great axe
>Drag my bros through the Far Realm as the only one left alive
>Rain fire and brimstone down on my enemies with headbanging
>Ride a top black dragon the through an armada
>Sit on a throne of bitches as the local nobility beg for mercy

>> No.19762655

>>19762519

>> No.19762662

>>19762485

One thing to note about this build. You can't cast if you have both your hands full. That's one of the perks of being an arcane duelist, although personally I feel you lose a lot more than you gain with that archetype.

Another note is that the whip has all kinds of downsides, like not damaging armored targets, no threat range, and provokes op attacks when used as if it were a ranged weapon. When you can, take proficiency in "flying talon". It's a 1 handed finessable reach weapon that has an inherent bonus to tripping. I'm not sure if it technically threatens at reach, but the proficiency feat is a cheaper price to pay than whip mastery and greater whip mastery.

If you could live without fury's fall for a level you could nab proficiency right away.

>> No.19762663

>>19762655

>> No.19762700

>>19762246
>Having THE MOST fun possible playing bard
>Wonder what these people are talking about
>Oh wait I'm playing 4e

>> No.19762707

>>19762662
But a whip is one handed - or do you mean using the whip + rapier?
Also since it'll be a human (feats fuck yeah), I'd probably get the flying talon - or how well does the spiked chain fare here?

>> No.19762717

>>19762707

>> No.19762720

>>19762308

NO, fuck you and everybody who says that "word"

>> No.19762738

>>19762662
Oh and why is the arcane duelist hurting you too much? Say you already have a rogue, who will be playing skill monkey for you, why not getting heavy armor (which actually doesn't impede your Perform skill)

>> No.19762748

The bard exists because there's always I chance something the bard can do will save the group, the bard pulls tricks of fate, magic, lore and good old smarm.

>> No.19762751

>>19762717

>> No.19762781

>>19762662

One more variation on the theme. Fighter 2 / bard 4. Take the Lore Warden archetype for Fighter. Lore Warden nets you Combat Expertise without having to meet the 13 int requirement. This feat is IN ADDITION to the normal bonus feat you get at second level fighter.

Finally, if you're happy with your number of spells known you might consider half elf. They can swap out their Skill Focus freebie feat for weapon proficiency in a weapon of your choice. I still think Human is better, but some people like playing something different.

>> No.19762782

>>19762751

>> No.19762784

>>19762748

A few good favors of the plots say.

>> No.19762798

>>19762700

As a fan of 4E I feel like groups that play it are either really fun or really boring. I haven't seen much middle ground at all.

>> No.19762808

>>19762782

>> No.19762822

>>19762808

>> No.19762857

>>19762246
If you need 4e to have fun playing a bard then you shouldnt be playing a bard...

>> No.19762861

>>19762822

>> No.19762907

Pic related.

>> No.19762915

>>19762707
Yeah, I meant if you were keeping the rapier out along with the whip.

>>19762738
As a dex based build, you don't actually benefit from heavy armor, so that's one point against it.

I personally don't like the feats arcane duelist gives and I've always felt that if you're playing a bard, it's to skill monkey it up, so why give up all those skill oriented benefits. If you want to give the party buffs and get into melee to wreck shit, why not magus? Scimitar Kensai Swordbound is a fun mix that laughs because he doesn't need a weapon or armor.

And for all the skill points the rogue has, he cant have all the knowledge skills and social skills and still maintain the rogue's staple of stealth and trappery, acrobatics, & escape artist. Knowledges can be very useful depending on the GM. Ours have generally used knowledge checks to nudge us down the right path.

If the rogue does focus social, well two heads are better than one, both in a mechanics sense as well as at the table. Its really fun having a character who can play off another's.

>> No.19762924

>>19762861

>> No.19762952

>>19762915

Also everyone lauds the Arcane Duelist's ability to give enhancements like keen to the party. They have spells for that, ones that don't require you to sacrifice giving the party that tasty tasty +x courage bonus to attack and damage.

>> No.19762960

IMO, if you're fighting as a bard you're doing it wrong. Think jack sparrow at the beginning of the first pirates of the Caribbean movie. Run away, and inadvertently resolve the situation by doing so. This can lead to some truly hilarious situations if your dm sees what you're doing and runs with it.

>> No.19762963

>>19762915
Well I think the Arcane Duelist is an interesting flavour, and as noted, I'd use human and go for Str + Bastardsword - but yeah, for melee the Magus seems to be the better choice
However in my game Knowledge (and mostly any other skill beside perception and maybe swim/climb, haven't even been touched, especially the social ones)
Social has been handled mostly through your own (the players) ability to argue stuff (and a certain willingness to go along the GM's rails)

>>19762952
Hm, you're actually right about this, I haven't looked to close at the bard's spells yet

>> No.19762985

>>19762924

>> No.19762990

>>19762960

>>implying my GM doesn't have his rails set up so this is almost impossible to pull off

Disregarding that, you do know there are enemies like undead or animals who can't be reasoned with?

>> No.19763000

>>19762985
whip bard?

>> No.19763013

>>19763000

>> No.19763082

>>19763013

>> No.19763105

>>19762990
>railroading
Oh man that sucks. Obviously it's hard to pull off in the classic linear dungeon, but you should do your best to escape the rails. Climb trees, run on rooftops, make sure he gets the hint that bards do whatever the fuck they want.

>undead
True, but it doesn't mean you can't try. I'm picturing a bard holding a group of zombies at bay while desperately trying to bargain with them. Bards are cool and all, but in combat they become comic relief. Embrace it.

>> No.19763110

Assuming 3.5 or close to... There's a feat in Races of the Dragon I think, lets bardic music add d6 fire damage to all allies' attacks. That always seemed like it had some potential, maybe with Master Thrower and an appropriately spammy weapon. If only Cloud of Knives was on the bard spell list, y'could get some King of Heroes shit going with Spell Thematics...

Also Knowledge Devotion if you can get away with that cheese.

>> No.19763134

l>>19763105
And one other thing, play the monkey island games. Observe insult sword fighting. If you're forced into open combat, use witty remarks to distract your opponent.

>> No.19763150

Either of these two gentlemen is acceptable.

>> No.19763182

>Roll whip build bard
>Play like you're Indiana Jones
>Always watch for levers
>Use Tasha's Hideous Laughter
>Always spout terrible puns IRL while casting it
>If possible, make them pertinent to the situation
>Trip ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
>Be humble as shit when party finally realizes they're only surviving thanks to your mad buffs and crowd control skills.

>> No.19763201

>>19762963

Granted the keen edge spell is not a bard spell. Still, at level 5 a bard grants +2 to hit and damage to himself and the whole party, or keen to one person

Arcane duelist would benefit more from a strength base build yeah, but I don't think there are any double str mod shenanigans to CMB. If you want to go trip monkey you'll be at a considerable disadvantage. Oddly Sundering armor isn't a bad tactic. If you get the armor to half health (not hard at all with a adamantine weapon) it halves the AC bonus of the item and you can use the mending cantrip to repair it after the fight.

If skills are not as useful in your group, then you certainly aren't losing much going Arcane Duelist.

>> No.19763207 [DELETED] 

>>19762990
Play a well-designed game. One that doesn't feature common enemies that make your character useless.

>play a bard if: you want to be the useless comic relief
ohwaityoureserious.jpg

>> No.19763213

>>19762990
Play a well-designed game. One that doesn't feature common enemies that make your character useless.

>>19763105
>play a bard if: you want to be the useless comic relief
ohwaityoureserious.jpg

>> No.19763276

>>19763201
Yeah, I was rather thinking using the Arcane Duelist for the damage (yeah I know Magus would be better here, but he is out right now because of the setting) - using the bastard sword and trying to rip shit with would be fun

>>19763213
Sorry, but let me paraphrase a quote of my GM after asking if and how far he is planning ahead
"Yeah, I usually plan ahead one or two scenes, but I know that you will do things that might screw up my story, so it's just one or two steps ahead."
As far as I've understood him, that means he plans out an encounter (but it is his story, so he sets up what happens), we can do some stuff in it and then we carry on.

But I've gotta go away now for some time, so thanks already for all the good suggestions

>> No.19763291

>>19763276

that's a dude, isn't it

>> No.19763445

>>19763291
Oh I hope so.

>> No.19763581

>>19763213
You're only the comic relief in combat, which should only be part of the campaign. And it's hardly useless. When you finish a fight by accidentally dropping a building on the enemy as you try to get away, or just enrage them by dodging every blow whilst rattling off a string of insults.

>> No.19763607

>>19763445
/tg/ - We're basically furfags.

>> No.19763637

>>19763607
>Liking men makes you a furfag

Women are disgusting after all.

>> No.19763662

Run the bard the way I run my mary sue bard NPC.

Have him use a songblade and a string instrument that uses an implement to play it, such as a violin or a fiddle.

Play the instrument with the blade, pretend it makes the sound of a full orchestra.

Now see what kind of auditory madness you can substitute the effects of your spells with that concept. Example: pushing people over with a thunderwave? YOUR VIOLIN PLAYS THE THX NOISE. THE ORCS ARE NOW 'DEAF'.

>> No.19763988

I find Bards to be the most fun when everyone plays gestalt in 3.5. I suggested to my group that we all be Bards, but have to pick a second class and then a prestige class that focuses on our differences in Bardyness. We have a Barbarian//Bard/Warchanter with his mighty Harmonizing Raging Great"axe."

My character is just a Bard//Paladin of Freedom for now, as he's the pilot of an airship that they all ride on. But, whenever he rides, he plays on his cello so that the entire crew works in top-condition. He *may* even affect the elemental that's bound to the ship. Then, when there's a fight, he equips his cello like a shield (there are straps on the back of it) and he uses his bow as a sword. The horsehair attached to the bow are actually unicorn hair, so no fraying from slicing bitches.

We haven't officially started yet, but I'm having so much fun just writing this character out.

>> No.19767315

>>19763581
This would be awesome if it was mechanically supported - and it is in some systems. In 3e/PF, your advice boils down to "be lucky as fuck".

>> No.19767425

>>19761999
>what do I do beside laying down buffs? I mean starting the performance and maybe one or two spells is fine and all, but what do I do AFTER?

Battlefield control and debuffs. A well-placed Glitterdust has far more of an impact than using an action to attack. At very low levels, or in situations where it doesn't really matter what you do, plink away with a ranged weapon.

If what you wanted was character based around getting in the thick of things and rolling very high damage on your attacks, bard is not a great choice.

>> No.19767610

>>19767315
Yeah, the rules suck for doing bards properly. I'm lucky to have an awesome DM who knows when to fuck the rules and do something cool.

>>
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