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19717354 No.19717354 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

6th ed Eldar thread?

I've seen people saying Vibrocannons are the new rock and roll because of glances. What the hell is that all about? Three vibros produce a SINGLE 36" line, so each vehicle along the line only gets one glancing hit. How is that any good when you could spend the points on muthafookin' War Walkers and cover them in S6?

>> No.19717391
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19717391

>>19717354
Oh, and a fun titbit I spotted on a forum. Allies of Convenience are counted as 'enemy units' that can't be shot at. This should mean that the Imperials can't take a Farseer with Runes of Warding as psychic defence without shutting down their OWN psykers.

For maximum effect, wait until you've started playing against Grey Knights with a Farseer ally before pointing this out.

>> No.19717432

>>19717391
I should point out though that there's an alternative reading. As the ALLIES are called 'enemy units', it's arguable that the Runes would instead shut down the Farseer's own powers... because he is the enemy.

So, if the feelthy Imperials take their own psykers, argue reading one, and if they don't, argue reading two! Easy.

>> No.19717449

>>19717432
People like you are why I haven't played 40k in two years.

>> No.19717466

>>19717432
But what if I'm playing for fun and not to be an asshole

>> No.19717481

>>19717354
>What the hell is that all about?
people still don't understand how vibrocannons work, after all these years

fuck, I hope they fix them in 6th.

>> No.19717526

Their platforms are T 7 with a 3+ save
When you shoot at the artillery, you remove closest models first
When you shoot at the artillery, you always use the toughness of the gun--however the crew can use their cover save
The gun will always work provided you have one crew

3 Glances reliably kills every vehicle in the game.

Barring LR/Monolith/Ark

>> No.19717587

>>19717526
Yes, but to get those three glances you need three SEPARATE Vibrocannons, taking up your entire Heavy Support allowance. So that's one vehicle a turn, at pretty short range. How is that better than 8 S6 shots from a War Walker?

>> No.19717616

>>19717449
>>19717466
OK, OK, I was being facetious about going with both. I'm not actually an asshole.

But the first one appears to be correct and I think it's a good thing. Unlike other sides, Space Elves really RELY on support from their psychic powers to be effective. The idea of repeatedly being shut down because the cheesetastic opposing army has grabbed their own pet Farseer... that's pretty annoying for the pointy-eared ones.

>> No.19717648

>>19717616
I should also add that the real solution would be GW actually giving other armies some psychic defences. Space Wolves get good ones so that helps. Kind of shocked that Necrons didn't since they're supposed to have a 6th edition-ready codex.

>> No.19717663

>>19717587

That's a dead vehicle (Or vehicles if they try to run together) a turn. For 150 pts? a pop?

War Walkers aren't in anymore. Their weak armor just got weaker with the new shooting/chart--and the squadron tables got less friendly. I play Crons and would giggle inside (outside I would shake your hand, introduce myself and hope we had a good game) if I see Walker spam across from me.

>> No.19717680
File: 65 KB, 439x467, 40K Characters 56.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19717680

If I paint some Eldar to look like they're Tau converts and field them as allies, how much will I piss off the diehard Eldar fans at my LGS?

>> No.19717714

>>19717680
>implying diehard eldar fans leave their basements

>> No.19717730

>>19717616
Chaos Space Marines had exactly two good powers: Warptime and Lash of Slaanesh. The deny the witch rules have brought Lash down (and I'll admit it needed a nerf) at the cost of making all their other powers (which are all glorified guns) even worse. Also the new perils of the warp rules are a minor nerf to the mark of Tzeentch; a boosted invuln save is no longer even bad insurance against perils.

>> No.19717735

>>19717663
Again, though, by doing that you're using up your entire heavy support allowance- so no Fire Prisms, Reapers, War Walkers, Falcons- and you're only popping at 36" range with a... less than mobile unit.

>> No.19717744

>>19717663
You realize squadrons got buffed, not nerfed, right? You no longer lose a walker on Immobilized results. 2 HP does suck a bit, but they were already pretty fragile.

>> No.19717746

>>19717680
>implying after 4 editions of being the GW's bitch there are any eldurp fans left.

>> No.19717761

>>19717663
one: vibro cannons have only a 36" range
two: no heavy support choices at all after that
three: artillery isn't all that durable, even with the T7 boost

>> No.19717779

>>19717735
Forgot to add no Wraithlords either. It's an interesting trick, though. I guess you could shut down areas of the battlefield quite nicely...

>> No.19717787

>>19717354
Read the codex dude. Vibro Cannons cause D6 hits on any unit the line passes through, and each hit auto-glances a vehicle.

So each one causes D6 glancing hits, insta-killing most vehicles on a 3+, and they give no fucks when firing at Flyers.

>> No.19717816
File: 15 KB, 346x65, Screen shot 2012-07-02 at 11.50.55 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19717816

>>19717787
Only a SINGLE glancing hit.

>> No.19717853

>>19717761
No u. UNITS get D6 hits, VEHICLES get a single glancing hit. And that's D6 hits or a single glance from the whole battery, not each vibrocannon. So the absolute maximum is 3 glancing hits, IF you use up all your heavy support choices on Vibrocannon.

>> No.19717873

>>19717787
I think you're trying to claim that a vehicle is a unit. I'm 90% sure that's wrong, but I'm willing to be persuaded.

>> No.19717876

>>19717735
>>19717587

if you play at 2000pts or more, you have 6 heavy slots!

>> No.19717954

>>19717876
If you play at 2000 points or more you need the 18 War Walkers for torrent fire to wear down the 12 MC lists you'll be running into, or flyer spam.

>> No.19717993

>>19717876

but only if you also bring 4 troops and 2 HQ

>> No.19717997

>>19717954
wraithguards and firedragons handle MC better or you can ally with Deldar and take splinter spam and your own flyers.5

>> No.19718003

>>19717876
>6 Fire Prisms
>Why can't I hold all of these combined shots

>> No.19718011

>>19717993
Eldrad + farseer + why arent you already taking 2 HQs and 4 troops?

>> No.19718019

>>19718003
Check the Apoc Rulebook

>> No.19718022

>>19717997
You can't really take that much splinter spam or flyers, even at 2k with grand armies. You'll get a max of 4 DE troops and 2 Flyers. And you still need 2 HQs from DE then.

>> No.19718034

>>19718019
I don't have the book with me. What does it say? You can't combine more than three fire prism shots? Is the Apocalypse book still usable in 6th ed?

>> No.19718047 [DELETED] 

>>19718011

because i play guard. fuck HQs and 1 troop slot can bury half the damn table.

>> No.19718049

I want to start 40k and want to play as the most vain, racist, better-than-you-because-we-are-master-race assholes around.
That is the eldar right?

>> No.19718050

>>19718034
Merging shots begins leading to bigger blasts, the damage still goes up

>> No.19718059

I havent gotten ahold of a new rulebook and my powers been out since friday. I heard flying MCs are getting a buff? How are my nurgle deamons and nurgle csm gonna be? I almost alwats run fluffy lists.

>> No.19718072

>>19718059
check the FAQs first. I think there are no more double toughness value. It uses the higher one. Plague Marines are T5 (I don't exactly remember).

>> No.19718097
File: 38 KB, 500x667, 1340442649842.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19718097

Could anybody help with my 1000 point Corsairs list? This is what I have so far:

Prince---Lasblaster, Jet pack, meltabombs, and shadow field 162

Corsairs x10---Lasblasters, 2 eldar missile launchers (krak), and jetpacks 145

Corsairs x10---Lasblasters, 2 eldar missile launchers (krak), and jetpacks 145

Corsairs x10---Lasblasters, 2 flamers, and jetpacks 127

Corsairs x10---Lasblasters, 2 flamers, and jetpacks 127

701 points, what should I get with the other 299?

>> No.19718133

>>19718049
Either Eldar, DE, or Necrons.

>> No.19718207

>>19718049
Yes, probably. In my head the Craftworld Eldar are actually quite nice, but I don't really have anything to back that up.

>> No.19718216

>>19718097
Probably your choice of Hornets, Warp Hunters, or Nightwing Interceptors.
Hornets are wonderful S6 or S8 spam, Warp Hunters have that wonderful AP1 D-cannon, and Nightwings because you might as well hop on the flier bandwagon - Eldar probably aren't getting any anti-aircraft ground units for a while.

>> No.19718305

>>19718059

Flying MCs can now Vector Strike, which does D3+1 base strength Ap3 hits when the MC swoops. Swooping turns the MC into a flier (5+ cover jink save, can't be assaulted or assault, only hit on 6's by non-Skyfire weapons). They can vector strike any unengaged enemy unit they fly over when Swooping.

For Nurgle stuff, and indeed, for all cases of this, additional incriments of toughness DO make you harder to inflict Instant Death on. Whereas before, T4(5) meant "Instant Death on S8 or higher", now you just use the bracket amount for everything. This doesn't affect Plague Marines greatly, as they just have 1 wound, but Feel No Pain is also now only negated by Instant Death, so only S10 attacks deny them their FNP. On the downside FNP is now 5+ but overall, it's a buff.

>> No.19718326

>>19718059

>I heard flying MCs are getting a buff?

MCs that previously moved as Jump troops have been amended as Flying Monstrous Creatures (there are a few exceptions, check your FAQ). An FMC may choose between two different movement modes at the start of the phase: gliding (you act just like a jump unit), or swooping. A swooping FMC can't be assaulted/assault, moves 12"-24" a turn (MINIMUM 12"), can only be fired at with snap shots (BS1, unless you have skyfire), can perform a vector strike (d3+1 ap3 hits on any unit underneath FMC's movement trail, str as per model), can opt to Dive upon being successfully wounded (before saves, gives model a Jink cover save), but any successful HIT has a chance (roll of 1-2 per hit) of causing the FMC to crash out of the sky and suffer an s9 hit with no saves, and act as though it were Gliding for the rest of the turn.

>How are my nurgle deamons and nurgle csm gonna be?

FnP is now taken against anything that doesn't cause Instant Death, and models with split Toughness Scores now ignore the lower number, they have a hard toughness score equal to the number in parentheses.

>> No.19718417

>>19718326
Just to clarify for the "grounded save" for the flying MC it is one 1d6 (1's and 2's causing the str 9 hit) if a unit makes one or more hits. So only one test is made even if a unit makes 8 hits. If it hits the ground all shooting from other units against it for your turn is normal. However if he does not get grounded you can shoot with another units.

If a different unit then shoots at the same MC then as long as it makes one hit it can force that test again.

>> No.19718434

>>19718216
Can I ally them with regular eldar?

>> No.19718458

>>19717816
A single glance per hit. Everything is a unit, even an independent character. They all get D6 hits, vehicle or not.

>> No.19718472

>>19718458
Forgot to finish. It's saying don't roll for pen value because that roll is replaced by automatic glancing.

>> No.19718500

>>19718458

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just can't honestly see that being the intended ruling. Even in 5th ed, D6 auto-glances is rather crazy. Did anyone actually run them as that?

>> No.19718511

>>19718500
Glancing table for 4th edition for - weapons weren't too great. Worse in 5 th edition, which they were working on. They knew vehicle edition was coming.

>> No.19718572

>>19718458
Was about to say 'nope, units aren't vehicles', but then I looked at page 3 of the rulebook and...

Holy shit, by 6th Edition rules you're right!

''a lone character, a tank, a war engine or a rampaging monster can also be considered to be a unit in its own right"

So, yup, it's definitely arguable. The rules are ambiguous (why 'A target with an Armour Value that is hit', not 'for every hit'?), and I don't think it's what's intended, but... it works.

>> No.19718582

>>19718511

Reading the entry in the codex, I'm struggling to understand why they wouldn't write "A target with an armour value that is hit by a Vibro Cannon always suffers D6 automatic glancing hits" if their intention was that vehicles got hit D6 times just like units. I mean, each additional cannon doesn't increase the number of shots, just the strength, so it's not like 3 cannons would produce 3D6 glancing hits. The wording GW chose just seems to support the idea that it's really just 1 glancing hit.

>> No.19718605

>>19718572
In fact, looking back at it 5th ed is even more clear by including Vehicles in 'Unit Types'. Oh, geedubs, when will you learn to write rules?

>> No.19718617

>>19718572
Yeah, I had to re-read the eldar codex because I felt sorry for them. Seeing what tidbits came out of it and low-and-behold I found a few things. Posted it in a bubbling 6th ed thread yesterday and now I read it in OP's post, and it gets refuted so I mentioned why it works.

I also pointed out haywire grenades (shortly) before others mentioned it. Mind war cannot be "Look out sir!" blocked, so their snipers eating special weapons and psyk's eat characters. All four farseers in 2k. Pretty nasty.

Aside from the wraithlord challenging, I forgot what else I mentioned. (That was someone elses find) I did however mention power axe banshees were to get initiative 10, but that was shot down by a FAQ I hear?

>> No.19718625

>>19718582
Vehicle squadrons wording in 4th edition had to be catered to.

>> No.19718648

>>19718625
If I'm going with this... I guess a vehicle squadron is a unit, so the unit as a whole takes D6 hits. Not as good, but then it can mean putting glances on vehicles that aren't actually under the line.

>> No.19718663
File: 50 KB, 438x406, vibro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19718663

>>19718648
Yeah I was about to say after putting up the whole vibro cannon rule.

If you hit all three vehicles in a unit of vehicles, you hit them 3D6 times and that would be nasty.

>> No.19718679

>>19718617
>power axe banshees were to get initiative 10
Not sure that works by the wording. Unwieldy doesn't reduce the Initiative, it just says 'strikes at Initiative phase one'. So your Banshees can still be Initiative 10, but they strike at PHASE one. I don't think there's a contradiction there, since the phase is what ultimately matters.

>> No.19718694

>>19718663
Depends on whether the individual vehicles in a squadron are units themselves, I guess...

Urgh, GW and their failure to word rules properly.

>> No.19718695

>>19718663
Hit enter before I went to the next paragraph when I switched songs and misclicked. Bugger.

"A target with an armour value that is hit by a vibro cannon always suffers a single glancing hit; do not roll for armour penetration"
This does not limit the hits taken. It skips the dice roll and it says don't roll for that.

You can blame the writer for being backwards and not skimming down the wording.

>> No.19718739

>>19718695
-Units (including Vehicles) suffer D6 hits.
-They are hit D6 times.
-When they are hit, you don't roll for AP, they just take a single glancing hit.
-They are hit D6 times, so D6 glancing hits.

>> No.19718781

>>19718739

Don't you at all think that "single" has any meaning there?

>> No.19718803

>>19718739

Also, it's units that are "hit" suffer d6 "hits." Which I guess will probably be errata'd to "wounds."

>> No.19718847

>>19718679
A vehicle hit(single hit) is glanced, don't roll for penetration.

Understand it now?

>> No.19718915

>>19718847
I don't buy it and I strongly doubt that anyone has ever played Vibrocannon like that before. But then... has anyone ever played Vibrocannon?

'A target with an Armour value that is hit' = a target that takes 1+ hits. This is just like when you say 'that guy hit me'- you don't say how many hits, it's just more than one.
'always suffers a single glancing hit'
so the hit or hits become a single hit.

>> No.19718954

>>19718915
I mean
>it's just one or more
You have convinced me that it's arguable based on Read As Written, but if it came to a vote I'd go for the single hit because I think that's what's intended.

>> No.19718978

>>19718803
>Which I guess will probably be errata'd to "wounds."
That's not how GW works. As a company they don't really care about making their rulesets consistent or unambiguous. Banshees were waiting for an errata on attacking into cover all the way through 5th, and still need it now. Three FAQs later... nothing.

>> No.19719101

>>19718978
The chinese statline has HP for hull points.

>>19718915
Ok look at it this way. Each vibro cannon rolls to hit. Then it draws a line to see what units are hit from one vibro cannon. Someone can easily confuse this "Wait, which one is the true hit?" so they clumped it as "Each vehicle is hit D6 times" separately.

"For each vibro cannon that hits"
"If any hit the unit suffers D6 hits"
"Vehicles hit suffer a single glancing hit"
Key word for the third one on vehicles (targets with an armor value) for each hit(D6 for the unit) they get a hit, a glancing hit.

>> No.19719114

>>19719101
This was also the first "draw a line" style weapon in 40k since 2nd edition IIRC, so you can say they evolved the wording since then.

>> No.19719179

>>19719101
Problem is still the 'single glancing hit'. It doesn't actually say 'for each hit' and I think there's a reason for that.

>> No.19719180

>>19719101
"For any vibro cannons that hit"**
Sorry, mis-worded.

If any hit, they draw a line. All of them give a bonus regardless if they hit or not (otherwise it would be str 4 if only one hit). If they all missed they couldn't draw a line anywhere (which can hit friendly units!) to try and hit as many enemy units as possible.

>> No.19719187

>A target with an armor value that is hit by a vibro cannon always suffers a single glancing hit.
So you shoot a vibrocannon and hit a single tank. It takes D6 hits, so you roll and score 3 hits.
>Did the tank take a hit?
Yes, it took three hits, so it meets the requirement for 'having taken a hit.'
>Then it suffers a single glancing hit.

Doesn't matter how many hits it takes. As long as it takes a hit, which it always will, it suffers a single glancing hit. The rule can easily be read both ways. In fact, there's already pretty strong evidence to suggest it works this way: a unit of 3 vibrocannons rolls to hit 3 times, but it doesn't matter how MANY of them hit, only that a hit occurs amongst the three of them.

And I say this as an Eldar player with vibrocannons.

>> No.19719230

>>19718739
>hit
>roll d6
>6 more hits
>roll 6d6
>more hits
>more d6
>more hits
>the never ending story of 1 minute in 40k, and the truth as to why it's still the 41st millenium

seriously

>> No.19719243

>>19719179

The only roll negated is the one made for rolling to penetrate the vehicle. Every hit a vehicle takes is hit once.

In 4th edition the term vehicle was tossed around for even bikes, jetbikes and so on. They couldn't use that word. So when they had a vehicle unit, and no allocating diagram like they put in 5th edition you could hit each vehicle D6 times instead of the unit. That is why it's a separate paragraph, that's why it has to say each vehicle hit by the line in the vehicle unit suffers D6 for the unit and not D6 for each vehicle in the unit.

They didn't call vehicle squadrons in 4th a Unit. So it was possible to get 3D6 hits if the line goes through all three.

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