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[ERROR] No.19657140 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

All right, let's sum up. This year in history, we talked about the failure of democracy. How the social scientists of the 21st Century brought our world to the brink of chaos.
We talked about the veterans, how they took control and imposed the stability that has lasted for generations since.
We talked about the rights and privileges between those who served in the armed forces and those who haven't, therefore called citizens and civilians.

You. Why are only citizens allowed to vote?

>> No.19657160

Because they're part of the ruling class and can be trusted to continue voting in their own self-interest.

>> No.19657168

Because I live in a fascist state more concerned with the propagation of the state than individual liberty or serving the citizenry.

>> No.19657178

Can we talk about what this has to do with traditional gaming instead?

>> No.19657179

They have proven to be dumb and loyal enough to join the military.

>> No.19657210

Because only Citizens have swallowed enough of the fascist propaganda to ensure that they will vote to uphold the status quo

>> No.19657214

Military-obsessed future? Is this Starship Troopers?

>> No.19657219

>>19657178

No.

This is wargames.

>> No.19657226

>>19657214
I think its the Bush Administration.

>> No.19657233

>>19657214
>Starship Troopers image
>Starship Troopers quote
>Is this Starship Troopers?
Nope

>> No.19657236

BECAUSE WE GOT SOME BUGS TO SQUASH, LIEUTENANT!

>> No.19657245

Is Military service the only way to get citizenship? What about Firemen, police, doctors ect?

>> No.19657250

>>19657245
You a bug lover, son?

>> No.19657257

Because they have demonstrated a willingness to put the interest of society above their own self interest.

>> No.19657259

No Klendathu Drop in the thread?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIGHCoVzqtk

>> No.19657261

>>19657140
Because a citizen has taken it upon himself the responsibility of the security of the body politic.

A civilian has not.

A citizen has proven themselves to be willing to lay down their lives for the good of our species.

A civilian has not.


That is why only citizens may vote.

>> No.19657264

>not being NPH with psychic powers
>whatever the year of that setting is

>> No.19657274

Because a tremendously naive writer really thought that a government where only the military can vote wouldn't become a nightmare. See: all those third-world countries where the military is involved in politics.

Nothing against the military, similar problems occur anytime only certain interest groups are allowed the vote.

>> No.19657279

Because having demonstrated their willingness to put their life at risk and suffer hardship to gain the right to vote, it is considered dangerous to keep it from them

>>19657245
In the book, I think that is the case.

>> No.19657283

>Vote
that's for pussies, i don't care being a citizen, the only thing i care is many bugs i'm going to kill today.

>> No.19657289

Your childhood called, just reminding you how awesome it was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL3obwVYdTg

>> No.19657301

>>19657274

You mean like only giving white domestic male wealthy land-owners the right to vote? Surly you can't build a successful country on that, right?

>> No.19657310

>>19657283
Oorah! Remember Buenos Aires!

>> No.19657339

>>19657301

>implying America didn't become a superpower after WWII
>well after universal suffrage for women and minorities

>> No.19657355

>>19657339

Not according to 'Murican education system.

>"US and A became the only superpower opposing bad commis immediatly as the Declaration of Independence was signed. Now children, who wants to eat Butterfingers?"

>> No.19657381

Personally I think the so-called "right to vote" is awfully overrated. So I don't get all the fuss about there being a completely reasonable restriction on who can help shape their nation's future.

>> No.19657405

>>19657355
funny, I learned we were essentially considered a backwater by european nations until roughly the time of the world wars

>> No.19657424

>>19657140
One problem about veterans, although it is a great standard to aspire to.

It does require perpetual war to equal something even moderately similar to a standardization of veteran experience.
And any good soldier holds peace in his heart as the ultimate objective. Otherwise he will become sloppy, undisciplined, bloodthirsty and mercenary.

Then you have the problem that all politics is invariably fought with spies. For the simple fact that spies will do what their told in terms of politics, as opposed to anyone else who wont.

Then lastly, explain to me how the military came to control the media?
Did they just keep killing journalists until they stopped being a special interest group?

This could never happen for the same reason that globalism could never happen. Humans diverge and specialise into races. Not the other way around.

>> No.19657430

Remember, aim for the nerve stem and but that bug down.

>> No.19657500

>>19657355

I think a campaign based on this would be awesome. Old-timey minutemen battling space-age commies on the wild frontier, anyone?

>> No.19657506

>>19657424
They probably offered citizenship in the early days to those who conformed to their ideal. Journalist says, "I'm gonna print the truth!" Politician says, "Print what we want and you can vote!" Journalist says, "Uh... Okay!"

>> No.19657520

>>19657424
I think the book's definition of veteran was someone who completed their term of service, with or without a war. The training is brutal enough to keeps out any one who can't handle the stresses of war and citizenship. That's a mercy for said civilian. But who knows maybe I agree with this because deep down, I'm apparently rich white uppity that wants to keep everyone down.

>> No.19657553

>>19657274
>implying having entitled OWS and babyboomer faggots voting and deciding policy isn't just as bad or worse.

>> No.19657682

In the book the pass rate is 10% which is pretty high and plato's republic, the basis of modern democracy, to become the leader of your city you have to have served so many years in your cities military.

>> No.19657736

also it didn't matter your abilities, as long as you were willing to work for your term, they'd find you a place.

there was a mention of blind, wheelchair guy doing some sorta job and still getting his citizenship.

>> No.19657741

>>19657245
In the book, you could take any form of Federal service to get citizenship. Carl, for instance, got R&D, instead of going into Intelligence like in the book.

>> No.19657859

>>19657736
That was only a hypothetical situation, but yes if the Federation recruiter did meet said guy, they would find some sort of job for him. The jobs they give you are hard and/or humiliating, so when you do complete your service, you'll appreciate the sacrifice you made for it.

>> No.19658126

IIRC it wasn't just military service, it was just dangerous, nessasary work. Although it bears mentioning that the top 10 most dangerous jobs list doesn't include 'solider'.

>> No.19658168

>>19658126
At this point in time, don't forget that this is the far future in a state of war so I'd imagine things have changed drastically.

>> No.19658201

>>19658168

In which way? Warfare's gotten safer and safter.

>> No.19658229

>>19658201
Well for one we're fighting human enemies, this is a society that's fighting against a whole species that basically has become made of killy. Even in the novels they're not an easy time there's a reason there's power armor as a standard troop outfit. The fuckers had lasers powerful enough to carve them up like a turkey on thanksgiving.

Really though the design of the movie bugs is more iconic they are not nearly as deadly.

>> No.19658250

>>19658201
It is the crazy zerg rush from the film it is dare i say it tau battle armor stlye fights were its just power armor running around killing bugs.

>> No.19658263

>>19657520
Only the MI had that brutal training. Federal service is more than just the MI and the Navy. If you end up doing bureaucracy during your federal service, you're just as much a citizen as a MI who did 50 jumps.

And Starship Troopers = fascism? Apart from Verhenhoven and Moorcock, is there anyone who really believes that pile of bull?

>> No.19658267

>>19658250
....what the fuck did you even say?

>> No.19658271

>>19658229
>>19658250

The movies are absurd. Zerg rushing aliens makes no sort of sense, as does the total lack of anything approaching modern combined arms.

They're scary and all, but the way they just shrug off bullets is silly.

And I mean safer in that the tail to tip ratio's gotten more and more towards the former. Yes, soldiers are there to die so we don't, but the majority of soldiers aren't anywhere near the real fighting.

>> No.19658298

>>19658271
actually shrugging off the bullets isn't that suprising, if you have any sort of distributed ganglia nervous system you'll have a creature with the ability to shrug off shots fairly well. I mean yeah, it will die with enough shots but generally bullets will not be nearly as effective.

>> No.19658367

>>19658298

When you're a giant ass bug scuttling along above ground saying 'lol, fuck that' to cover, a moments fire can easily have at least half a dozen bullets into you. That's going to fuck you up. And that's implying the RnD types don't start issueing HP, or what-have you, designed to internally fuck you up more so.

Plus, HMGs, Artillery, CAS, Armour, etc. Movies had basically none of that.

>> No.19658407

>>19658367
yeah see once combined arms are rolling around then it's a cakewalk. Which means things get much easier using rounds that break apart inside would be very deadly as it would shred nerves and muscle easily. Really a flamethrower would work the best as it would cook them from the inside like a lobster in water or some sort of microwave weapon.

Like I said the actual book bugs were a really nasty opponent as they had some not unlike tactics.

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