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[ERROR] No.19478981 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

are you guys looking forward to 6th edition?

personally im nervous about them nerfing my leman russes, as well as hoping that they will somehow allow superheavys in smaller games (toned down of course)

>> No.19479035

>>19478981
>nerfing my leman russes
Very hard, tbh.
They are still cheap, still have all the improvements from the codex, and it will take a large amount of core rule changes to do something about that, if at all due to codex > rulebook.
And no, no superheavies in my games, kthnx.

>> No.19479045

Fuck GW

>> No.19479060

>>19478981
I do. Things I hope for: more scenarios-deployment types, let it be 4x4 at least.
I really liked the hull points idea that vehicles can take only a limited amount of penetrating hits etc., cause it will mean the end of mech everywhere.
Adding AP to close combat weapons will nerf the infamous Draigowing and will make certain units more viable.
Nerfing FnP and cover saves would be nice.
I also liked the idea of declaring when your units are going to arrive from reserve.

>> No.19479084

>>19479060
>nerf the infamous Draigowing
You are complaining about one of the less optimal GK lists out there?
Even then, the "mech everywhere" is the result of transports NOT being complete shit like they were in almost all other editions. Vehicles such as russes, predators, falcons, warbuggies have always been a important part of army lists.

>> No.19479093

Glancing hits can now destroy vehicles again.

Penetrating hits destroy vehicles 50% of the time. 50% of those times about half of the crew inside is lost.

Get the fucking guys out of the fucking metal BAWCKSES. I'm sick of playing mechwarrior.

>> No.19479094

If anything Russes might get a bit nerfed from the "speed of the vehicle modifies the rolls to hit with shooting" thing. They might be hit universally on a 2+ due to their slow speed.

>Hellhounds and Bane Wolves will be godlike if fast vehicles can only be hit on 6's
>Good thing I run a Valk airdrop army

>> No.19479107

Glancing hits can now destroy vehicles again.

Penetrating hits destroy vehicles 50% of the time. 50% of those times about half of the crew inside is lost.

Get the fucking guys out of the fucking metal BAWCKSES. I'm sick of playing mechwarrior.

Also, ALL PRICES CUT BY 80%. Maybe then we'd get some new blood that isn't 11.

>> No.19479113

>>19479084
Ok, draigowing is a bad example, ap3 power/force weapons will boost regular termies and 2+ units with no invul.
Sorry, I'm just sick of razorspam everywhere. I guess it's not metal box's fault, but netlisting.

>> No.19479115

>>19479093
>>19479107

How did that get posted twice, but one time one sentence was cut off? Weird...

>> No.19479146

i want a nerf to cc to vehicles, i seriously hate how a bunch of idiots wielding chainswords can easily take down a russ by running at it

>> No.19479148

>scouts will never NOT be troops choices
>MotF will never NOT be HQ choices
>TFC will never NOT be heavy support choices
>set for life

>> No.19479160

>>19479113
>razorspam
Guy, did you play 4th edition, where lazplas was king because it was the ONLY THING marines of any stripe had going for them?
3rd edition where Eldar vehicles were untouchable gods?
Your complaint is not new, it's been like this for years. Only transports got a buff to being actually of use, versus a guaranteed deathtrap.
I honestly don't want a return to dudes on foot everywhere. I LIKE having vehicles all over the place, big guns and big battles, troops taking potshots from cover and flanking enemy armor to take them out.

>> No.19479169

>>19478981
Looking forward isn't how I'd put it. GW hasn't given any clue as to what the next edition will play like, so they've forced me to be apprehensive about it. They haven't released any teaser rules or anything.

I do have to say I don't like the rumours of way more arbitrary randomness. Rolling lots of dice is fun and whatever, but games should NEVER be decided on single dice rolls. Keep in mind that a single 4+ roll might as well be a coin flip.

>Adding AP to close combat weapons will nerf the infamous Draigowing
>the infamous Draigowing
Draigowing is the closest thing to a fluffy list Ward Knights can do. Also it is the LEAST powerful of the major builds from the codex. If someone plays Draigowing you should thank them for playing a fluffy, non-exploitative army. Even if they're doing wound allocation tricks. Thank them for playing Grey Knights like Grey goddamn Knights.

Also AP to close combat weapons wont "nerf" them because a) the rumour is that power weapons will only be AP3 and b) the thing mediocre players whine about with draigowing is wound allocation, not armour saves. And wound allocation will be fixed.

>> No.19479185

>>19479169
>the rumour is that power weapons will only be AP3
I wouldn't mind this.
It makes units that pay premium fee for that much vaunted, near useless 2+ save a little more viable, and I like how it lines up to FF's game line, where power weapons penetrative power can still be blunted by truly good armor.

>> No.19479186

>>19479160
I don't mind mechinized armies, I play a mixed mech-blob IG army, used to be all-out mech, but I got a bored of it eventually. That guy complains more about netlisting then mech I think.

>> No.19479200

>>19479185
I like it too. It's not quite as good as throwing out the retarded AP system and going back to armour save modifiers, but it's the next best thing. It's the least stupid an AP system can be.

And it makes Mega Armoured Nobs something that will see gameplay for the first time since their codex came out.

>> No.19479209

>>19479160
I think the problem is that due to the units' point costs going down and game's point ranges getting higher the FOC is starting to feel restrictive.

In situation like that two in one choices like dedicated transports are getting better and better. Combine that with the fact that many transports increase unit mobility, are quite tough, can tank shock, often have good firepower and so on and you see why the mechanized lists are so much more common than infantry.

I don't want to see the return of useless transports and only foot armies either but the opposite extreme isn't any good either. At the very least troops shouldn't be able to score from inside the transport.

>> No.19479222

any legit leaks yet ?

>> No.19479238

>>19479169
Yup, Draigowing isn't the worst list GK codex can spawn.

>> No.19479240

>>19479209
Well the FOC has pretty much always been completely fucking retarded.

Once, long ago there were alternate charts, but they required special missions/permission to use.

GW's designers know, on some level, that the org chart is stupid, that's why every codex written in the last decade has featured ways to ignore it in some way. Either through 3-for-1 choices, shuffling certain units to Troops or Heavy, having units not count against the FOC at all and so on. Oh, and apocalypse obviously.

The points system is sufficient. Or at least, it should be, up until Apocalypse sized games, at which point you're already acknowledging that it's not balanced.

>> No.19479333

>>19479240
So, no-FoC or unique one for every army, or percentage-based?

>> No.19479344

If the book will be full color, I will consider buying it. And I cant wait for new rules, Im excited

>> No.19479364

>>19479333
All those would be rather broken.

No-FoC being quite bad is pretty frigging obvious. Percentage based would benefit cheap gunboats like Vendettas and Ravagers and make some more expensive choices useless. Unique FoC would be the best but the GW designers would shit that up too.

>> No.19479417

>>19479333
I personally would go with no FOC at all plus a restriction of 0-3 of any particular unit. Something like that.

OR keep FOCs but have three that any player can choose from: one as normal, one strike force with 1-3HQ/0-6Elite/0-1Troop/0-6Fast/NoHeavy and one support force with 0-1HQ/0-1Elite/3-8Troop/0-1Fast and 0-6 Heavy

Or have a personal FOC for each army.

Percentage based lists would be fucking garbage and it would screw up the whole game. Crypteks for example, count to the HQ percentage while Wolf Guard count to the Elite percentage. They're the same kind of unit though. Farsight Enclaves would be practically unplayable. You couldn't take Asdrubael Vect's pimpmobile unless it was a huge game... the list goes on. Percentages would break 40k entirely unless every codex was rewritten at the same time.

>> No.19479440

>>19479417
Alternative FoC charts would've been nice as well as swaping like 2 choices from, let's say, Elites for extra Heavy or something along those lines.

>> No.19479455

>>19479417
Dealio with it. We have had those kinds of restrictions in fantasy for over a year, and guess what? The game became more playable. You didn't have every fuckwit turn up with a 800 point character in 2000 pts, backed up by 2 other characters and a handful of troops. The game can only benefit by this kind of balance. Sure, you're going to have to play bigger games, but if you've been in the game for more than a year, you're going to have enough models to play larger points games.

TL;DR: stop crying now that you can't run lysander in 500 pts games

>> No.19479489

>>19479169
>a) the rumour is that power weapons will only be AP3

I heard it's actually AP2.

>> No.19479515

>>19479489
What the heck would be the point of that?

I think the stuff that says that it ignores armor now, like rending attacks and Lelith stay AP 2 but generic power weapons become AP3.

One thing they could do is fixing Lhamias when they are at it so that the poison stacks with other weapon attributes.

>> No.19479549

>>19479455
It would make some already marginal armies that have no good troop choices (like tau) totally unplayable though.

>> No.19479553

Ok guys the rumour is that heavy tank will get a boost. They will get to fire all their weapons and move 6" So your land raider which never got to fire its heavy bolter will now be able to. That means the leman russ will be able to fire all of its gun. Oh and the best part is they dont have to fire at the same target. So you no longer have to waste your heavy bolter shots while your battle cannon takes out a tank.

>> No.19479572

>>19479455
You don't have anything like that now, or at any point, even back when 40k was herohammer in 2e.
There was also the benefit of 40k and Fantasy being poles apart in terms of design. What works for one doesn't mean it will work for the other, the design philosophies are fairly divorced, unless there was a overall rewrite.

>> No.19479592

>>19479455
What a foolish post. Every single thing you said is dumb and obviously wrong. Good job.

>> No.19479593

>>19479553
Neat.
That might make some tanks really powerful though.

>> No.19479605

>>19479593
Main battle tanks are supposed to be fucking powerful though. Offset with that a guardsman with a missile launcher can take one out.

>> No.19479607

>>19479593
Thats kinda what gw wants. Everyone has bought a fuckload of transports so now they want to make people buy heavy vehicles again. So landraiders, leman russes, hammerheads, predators will now become the go.

>> No.19479613

>>19479185
So what's an Evicerator going to be?
Currently it's nothing more then a rebranded Chainfist.

>> No.19479617

>>19479607
>implying predators, leman russes, hammerheads aren't still some of the best units in their respective armies when it comes to dakka and weren't well used

>> No.19479632

>>19479617
Not nearly as many as are required. Unless you are playing on the tournament spectrum then most people will only have one of those. (leman russes being the exception).

>> No.19479652

But Power Weapons having AP3 is completely contradictory to their fluff.....

They're surrounded by force fields that agitate the atoms within a solid and break down the bonds between them, effectively rendering them to a liquid form.
The density/thickness of aforementioned solid shouldn't have any affect on that whatsoever.....

>> No.19479661

>>19479652
This. As long as something is made out of atoms, a power weapon can cut through it.

>> No.19479669

To be honest, the rules sound like the nails in the coffin that is Sisters for the next several years till they either finally get a codex, 7th ed comes out or GW finally officially squat them.

The rumour that you can either shoot or charge but not both, the notions that Flyers will become a 'Must Have' item, this idea I keep hearing that Psykers will join Hero-Hammer after GW removed all the Sisters anti-psyker abilities, the rumour that Invun saves aren't.

It sounds like in an effort to fix one or two little issues they completely overshot the mark and screwed everything all over again but in a different way.

Not that it matters, I packed away my Sisters back when the WDex came out and fucked everything over for no better reason then it could.

They were the only army keeping me in the game, I've been playing a lot of Infinity and Malifaux and if GW can't drag me back in in the next year or two, I'm going to be selling my Sisters and just focusing on the other companies.

>> No.19479673

>>19479652
No, not really contradictory to fluff. First off it's all abstract, second a 3+ save is supposed to be basically the best that armour can get. 2+ saves are reserved for near-unique equipment like tactical dreadnought armour (built for hanging out in plasma reactors as hot as stars) or for vastly powerful monsters that wont be badly hurt by a tiny sword, no matter how well it cuts.

But more importantly it's all abstract. Space marines don't actually miss every third time they shoot at a target either.

Also what happened to other units' fluff being important? Why don't we respect the fluff of a Mega Armoured Nob being able to take a few hits and being genuinely scary on the battlefield? This rule would make the nob fluffier while still keeping the power weapon fluffy. Win-win.

>> No.19479705

>>19479661
I can't believe I'm making this analogy, and I feel deeply ashamed for it, but remember that scene at the start of Episode One where Qui-Gon shoves his light sabre into that blast door?

He sure did slash through that door in one hit. Yep. That is what happened.

>> No.19479710

>>19479673

Unless you're an Eldar player, which would mean the only options you have that are halfway decent in CC (Banshees) now need a 5+ to would Terminators, and then they get their 2+ save.

Couple this with the fact that the only guns worth their points in the entire army that are AP 2 or less are Fire Dragon meltas (Which they also need to break heavy armor, and which die right afterward 90% of the time) and the Fire Prism/Falcon (Which get 1 or 2 shots respectively and have BS 3) Terminators become unstoppable killing machines against Eldar.

>> No.19479713

>>19479673
The only downside i can see to PW being AP3 is that it will probably see wolves and GK still very, very prevalent due to troop termies (almost) always getting that 2+ (and if the random psyker stuff except GK is to be believed, GK have that advantage too)

This would also probably be the final nail in the coffin of howling banshees for me, i don't take them regularly because scorpions do banshees job better whilst also doing their own pretty damn well and the banshees not even removing 2+, may as well have the extra strength scorps.

>> No.19479735

>>19479710
Yes. Eldar have an old codex.

>> No.19479743

>>19479673

>2+ saves are reserved for near-unique equipment like tactical dreadnought armour (built for hanging out in plasma reactors as hot as stars)

An electromagnetic field that tears apart materials at an atomic level =/= something really really hot.


>or for vastly powerful monsters that wont be badly hurt by a tiny sword, no matter how well it cuts.

I agree, but this should me more reflected by its toughness level, not it's armour. It should be like stabbing yourself with a pin, it can pierce your skin easily, but it's just too small to do any real damage.


>Also what happened to other units' fluff being important? Why don't we respect the fluff of a Mega Armoured Nob being able to take a few hits and being genuinely scary on the battlefield?

Again, his should be represented by increased toughness/wounds/inv. save, and perhaps some kind of 'terror' type rule that forces leadership tests on opponents.


>But more importantly it's all abstract. Space marines don't actually miss every third time they shoot at a target either.

Whilst yes, this is true, it's slightly different to the example you gave in that GW explicitly stated how a power weapon works, and so in order to change the crunch effect, they're either going against established fluff or the laws of physics.


>>19479705
From what I can tell, lightsabers are just plasma emitters, i.e. Very very hot.
As I said, hot =/= atomic excitation

>> No.19479746

>>19479710
except, the way to kill terminators has, and always will be, through massed weak fire, use dark reapers or other units with high volume of fire and force him to take 20 or so armour saves, he will fail some.
best way to kill terminators especially with all the stormshields out there is simply forcing lots of armour saves

>> No.19479770

>>19479746
Presonally i'd come to use dire avengers with an autarch for termie killin' as 7 PW attacks, 9 on the charge and a 5+ invun are surprisingly effective. also bladestorm before charge, usually kill a unit first turn, possibly before they strike back

>> No.19479771

we're close enough to release date that rumor mongers can drop accurate rumors. Take a look at bols from yesterday, the first set is probably from 6e, the second set looks to be based on the heretic/pancake edition.

So the guy who said power weapons were ap3 probably wasn't lying, I'm betting they tested them at ap3 before deciding they had to be ap2 and that rumor was based off a test version.

bols is probably going to drip more semi-accurate rumors today.

Personally I fucking hate 2d6 take the highest for charge ranges.

>> No.19479794

>>19479746
Which is highly comical if you think about it.
As per fluff PA is meant to be near imperious to small arms fire, Termy armour IS impervious to small arms fire and near impervious to any short of high explosive or anti-armour guns.
To break both the best bet is meant to be PW or lots of very high yield fire.

And yet in the game (And computer games) instead of simply having an 'impervious' rule that you pay through the nose for, the best way to kill either is just lining up as many of basic level troopers with el-shito weapons and playing the random numbers game.

>> No.19479806

>>19479794

It's kind of like destroying a Challenger II with 100,000 AK-47's.....

>> No.19479843

>>19479661
>>19479652
who gives a fuck about fluff if it makes the game shit

>> No.19479853

>>19479743

Wraithbone, Living Metal, Necrodermis, and probably some other materials are effectively Newmatter. Artificially created matter at the subatomic level which operates using different physical laws than normal matter.

It's perfectly logical to believe that a power weapon would not be able to cut through such things, as the people designing power weapons likely don't understand them, and the ability to decouple atoms may not apply to them.

>> No.19479858

>>19479743
In older editions of 40k and the rpgs, power weapons do not entirely invalidate armor materials.
Back in 2e, a terminator was worth every damn point because they were dead killy and hard as hell to kill, requiring your anti-armor to drop.
Dropping the "remove all armor" of power weapons is a good way to make highly armored units reasonable against other forces skirmishers that happen to carry power weapons. If you didn't pay thru the nose for the privilege of 2+ saves only to find that they don't actually help you that much, I'd agree with you.

>> No.19479862

>>19479853

Those materials should convey a close-combat invulnerable save.

>> No.19479867

>>19479743
>>An electromagnetic field that tears apart materials at an atomic level =/= something really really hot.

The original fluff explanation for terminator armor's invult save was that the armor was thick enough to shrug off anti-tank hits, so I don't think a sword, no matter how techno-magical it is, is going to do much against that. Not from a fluff standpoint anyway.

>> No.19479868

>>19479710
> Banshees
> Good
> Also implying Striking Scorpions and Harlequins aren't good CC, which they are
> Also implying any of this matters, because the Eldar use CC and not just wave serpents with scoring upgrades, fire dragons, other vehicles, jetbikes, and psykers

>> No.19479874

>>19479862

Or just a 2+ save, where 3+ is the fluff limit of "normal" armor.

>> No.19479880

>>19479867
>The original fluff explanation for terminator armor's invult save was that the armor was thick enough to shrug off anti-tank hits
Back in the day, the explanation for terminator armor's 3+ on a 2d6 was because the armor was the toughest thing you were gonna find worn by a living being.

>> No.19479890

What was the save modifier for power swords in 2nd ed anyway?

>> No.19479902

>>19479890
-5 or -6?
It's been a long fucking time, I've forgotten most of the numbers. I think it was 5, along with lascannons.

>> No.19479905

in 2e terminators had a 3+ on 2d6 armor save, and weapons had a -armor modifier based largely on strength.

So a str 4 marine drops your armor save by 1.
think of how it works in fantasy and add that to 40k.

Power weapons, don't remember, it doubled the bonus or something like that.

>> No.19479916

>>19479770
Where the hell does that happen?

A full 35-shot Bladestorm MIGHT kill 2 termies, and the Autarch might kill another. The DAs themselves are just there to watch the Autarch get one-shotted in the first round of strikes back.

>> No.19479928

>>19479902

2e power sword (and power axe etc) was just -3 to saves.

It didn't even fully negate power armor. The 3e skip that made it ignore all armor saves was a huge buff to all power weapons and huge nerf to anything with a 2+ save or terminator armor.

>> No.19479937

>>19479868
Clearly you do not play Eldar.

Harlequins are crap (5+ save?), Scorpions are ok, but obviously useless against Termies and really anything but basic Marines without a powerfist will kill them in pretty short order.

>> No.19479941

>>19479916

1.925 termies. 0.9625 if they have FNP.

>> No.19479945

>>19479928
yes because 3+ on 2d6 to 2+ on 1 d6 ins't what depowered terminators

and squat mining armor

>> No.19479966

>>19479710

>Couple this with the fact that the only guns worth their points in the entire army that are AP 2 or less are Fire Dragon meltas (Which they also need to break heavy armor, and which die right afterward 90% of the time) and the Fire Prism/Falcon (Which get 1 or 2 shots respectively and have BS 3) Terminators become unstoppable killing machines against Eldar.

Eldar do not use shitty banshees ever, and do not kill terminators in close combat.

In 5th edition most armies deal with the occasional 2+ save unit with volume of fire. This means shuriken stuff and scatter lasers in case of eldar, tesla and gauss for Necrons, splinters for Dark Eldar and multilazors and autocannons for Guard. These weapons work like before.

Any eldar player who uses Banshees as their anti-terminator unit uses models that will suck and fuck him up. Fire Dragons are the elite that works.

>> No.19479969

>>19479941
Eh, I was giving him best possible case with full attacks after the charge, etc.

And to respond to the person who was fussing about god-like Eldar vehicles: They cost as much or more than a Land Raider, didn't carry as many guys, and had dramatically less firepower. But yes, they were difficult to kill with just lascannons (assuming you weren't smart enough to have brought autocannons).

>> No.19480008

>>19479969
The only army that had freely available autocannons back then was Guard, and that didn't stop Eldar from being the most powerful army in the game, bar none, when armor was far more expensive per unit AND easier to disable.
Eldar vehicles could outrun and outrange most weapons, and were hard to kill to boot on top of having troops inside.

>> No.19480057

>>19480008
And they have been paying for it ever since then by having increasingly bad vehicles with every codex and rules edition until now, when they have pretty much the worst.

>> No.19480098

>>19480057
>every dex
In RT, 2e and 3e/3.5e, Eldar were top dogs.
Even in 4e, they could hold their own fairly well.
ONLY in 5e, where the power scale has begun to return to 2e levels compared to the massed depowering of 3e, do the Eldar falter with a dex that doesn't jive with the current design philosphy.
You are complaining that for the first time on 40k history, Eldar are not one of the best armies.

>> No.19480113

>>19479937
Clearly, sir, YOU do not play Eldar (and if you do, you really should not). Harlequins get an invulnerable save, ignore terrain, strike at S4 on the charge, hit and run, and can gain rending... and 4 attacks, per, on the charge. Scorpions get many, many attacks at a good strength, and infiltrate, meaning they can engage a target in CC a whole lot better than 'does my craft have assault ramps? Guess I'll sit tight lol' Banshees.
3 S4 attacks vs a 2+ => 2 S3 attacks against a 3++. Against even normal 'nators, 2 S4 attacks NOT on the charge against a 2+ > 1 S3 attack against a 5++.
A little math goes a long way, and Banshees don't go anywhere but the scrapheap.

>> No.19480170

>>19480113
I do, (and I really should not) but I do so without the putridity of Harlequins. Every time I tell someone they are bad they rattle off the Furious Assault or Rending thing. Sure, they CAN kill things, but are they good at it point for point? (i.e. compared to other assault troops) Not really. Provided nothing shoots them, (in which case flashlights click everyone dies) it's the save that screws them. A 4+ would fix them, but now that they're in the DE codex as well... too late for that.

Scorpions are ok for Outflank attacks against non-CC troops, but against any other army's combat specialists they are done. Banshees are tricky to use (and require a transport) but a pray-for-luck Skimmers Moving Fast (and Vectored Engines) can put them where you want them. As for Terminators, the only thing the Eldar have against them is a full kit Seer Council (at twice the price and hope the Farseer doesn't get fisted)

It would be nice if the Eldar had mastered front-door technology though.

>> No.19480231

for all this argument about power weapons and armour pen how come they get no bonus against tanks? If a power sword can cut through TDA and force an invulnerable save they should get something like +D3 armour pen as well.

>> No.19480270

>>19480170
The 5++ on Harlequins is for in the open or in CC. If they're not in either of those, keep them in cover or a vehicle. They were reprinted as-is in DE simply because they're actually surprisingly good for a 3e unit: 4 attacks, each hitting on 3+ and wounding on 4+, gives 1 and a 3rd wounds before saves- A Banshee's 2 attacks, hitting on 4+ and wounding on 5+, manage a whole 1/3rd. Even against a 2+/5++, the Harlequins not only win out, but can escape the combat. They also have a 5++ against power weapon return strikes.
The 3+ the Banshees have is no use against the heavy CC units they're designed for (because they have power weapons, too), and no use against masses of lesser infantry as it just disappears under a hundred blows. While the 5++ ain't much good against a hundred guardsmen either, it's a whole lot better against a power weapon.
Harlequins can actually take Terminators in a fight. Banshees can't. Striking Scorpions lose less badly against Terminators in a fight than Banshees, and kill swarms pretty well, too- against which Banshees tiny low strength attacks are just pansy.

All in all, Banshees are 'tricky to use', yep. That's because they're not very good at their job- a specialist meq-killer shouldn't need council support to do the job it's apparently 'good' at. Scorpions are just as good against most targets that Banshees are good at, and better against several others.
Both Scorpions and Banshees fail against actual combat units due to them not having invulns or toughness combined with too little killiness. This doesn't mean Scorpions aren't better than them, and Harlequins are better than both- while 2 points per model more adds up, it's not much to pay when it's the only actual good CC unit in the Eldar book.

>> No.19480288

>>19480170
>Scorpions are ok for Outflank attacks against non-CC troops, but against any other army's combat specialists they are done.

They're doing just as well as banshees against hammernators, better against gants, wyches, genestealers, boyz or guardsmen, and have 3+ saves.

>> No.19480308

Does anyone know who's writing the 6th ed? Cause I swear to the emperor if it's this Moron.

>> No.19480313

>>19480270

>Scorpions aren't better than them, and Harlequins are better than both- while 2 points per model more adds up, it's not much to pay when it's the only actual good CC unit in the Eldar book.

Too bad they don't have what it takes to fill an elite slot.

>> No.19480325

>>19480313

As long As I get my Aspect Stats, those +4's are mighty Excellent.

>> No.19480342

>>19479148

That's a terrible list and you should feel bad.

I could be that with DAEMONS. Honest-to-god Codex: DAEMONS.

>> No.19480346

>>19480308

Ward's been promoted to Alessio's former senior games developer position, which means he gets to write rulebooks for both Warhammer games.

>> No.19480359

>>19480098
Tier list time?

>> No.19480368

>>19480346
Wait wait wait. He has actively broken the game with the codices he's written. He has dicked over YEARS of fluff so his spesul snoflake Mary Sues can exist. He is reviled by so many of us that his very NAME has been banned from this board. And he gets rewarded for this? What the fuck GW? What the ever loving fuck?

>> No.19480380

>>19480368

Niggawhat. Disregarding his fluff, his rules are solid as fuck and the best coming out of GW at the moment. Who would you rather have? Cruddace jerking off to Guard all the time?

>> No.19480382

>>19480346

Emperor Help us all.

>> No.19480394

>>19480270
I know counting is hard, but comparing charging Harlies to stationary Banshees is a little silly no? Also 'cunningly' comparing the pre-save Harlie wounds to unsaveable Banshee wounds...? Are you even trying to fairly represent the two units here?

>> No.19480402

>>19480368

Did you not even read the warhammer fantasy 8th book?

Cause this is one of the first pages.

>> No.19480407

>>19480346

yea! all tau railgun will be noi assault 2 or heavy 4!!!!
i hate that man: he create two of the most stupid, broken codex in this late 5° ediction (and do no forget BA....).

Why i still play whit kelly one....

BTW hoping /tg will release some pdf, i rly hate to be forcet to buy the full un-poket ruebok version <_<

>> No.19480419

>>19480288
They could beat the guardsmen in that example, and possibly the boyz if they formed up right, but stealers? And Wyches just murder everything.

>> No.19480421

>>19480380
Army Book: Daemons of Chaos. You call that utter bullshit "Solid as fuck" and the best shit coming out of GW at the moment?

What about Codex: Grey Knights and fucking DRAIGO?

Or the utter bullshit that is Furioso Dreadnoughts?

What about that shit, huh?

>> No.19480433

>>19480402
Huh. So he abbreviates it Mat instead of Matt? I did not know that. You learn something new every day.

>> No.19480461

>>19479916
In my magic unit the marine players at my club are scared of. I honestly don't know HOW it happens, but every time it does, and i end up making the majority of my invuns despite them being 5+. The bladestorm is fairly useless tbh, but 1 or maybe 2 less is still less termies.

>> No.19480472

>>19480421
>Draigo
As stated before, he's not that bad. Abaddon will kick his ass most of the time, nobody bitches about him.
Every codex has something people whine about: Lash, Obliterators, Vendettas, Manticores, Long Fangs, Furiosos (btw, they aren't that hard to take down), Razorbacks, Command Barges etc.

>> No.19480485

>>19480472
It's more the fluff why I rage about him, and the GK codex. Oh, and plasma syphons. Should have added plasma syphons. Hell, I don't even use plasma weapons and I still think that is utter bullshit.

>> No.19480489

>>19480461
It's better to be lucky than good

But hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good re-roll at your side

>> No.19480492

>>19480380
Books Ward has written:
Fantasy Chaos Daemons
Fantasy Orcs & Goblins
8th Ed. Fantasy
Space Marines
Blood Angels
Grey Knights
Necrons

Bear in mind when I say "written" I mean that his name was the one featured most prominently on the title page. No book GW puts out is a one-man show, but a single designer usually gets appointed to draft up the initial rules for the studio to playtest from there. So let's look at Ward's rules. Both of his fantasy army books were objectively awful. Mat made daemons the most broken pile of abusive shit because, "it wouldn't make sense if Daemons weren't overpowered!" He actually said that. Similarly, Mat doesn't believe orcs should be allowed to win ever, so the 7th ed O&G book had all kinds of problems just to dick them over. To apologize for all this, they made Mat write 8th ed. WHFB, which is far from a unilaterally-loved set of base rules like 5th edition 40k, for example. I'm not saying nobody complains about 5e 40k, but I am saying that I hear less gripes about 5e 40k than I do about 8e fantasy. Maybe that will change with 6e 40k, but we'll see.

Ward's 40k writing is a little more solid. Space Marines was a great book when it came out, because it was the first 5th ed codex. It's dropped a lot since then, however. Grey Knights are very nearly a Fantasy Daemons-level book, but it's not like 40k hasn't had long-running top dog codexes off and on forever. Blood Angels is actually not a solid book. It looks like it until you realize that Ward basically made a marine assault army, which means you have an elite, expensive version of orks with FNP. Consider that BA have only won a single GT in all the years that codex has been out, and that win was largely due to paint scores. Necrons is probably the best we've seen out of Ward yet.

>> No.19480498

Here's the math for banshees vs terminators and hammernators

Against terminators (2+/5++) while charging 1/3 wounds, hammernators (2+/3++) 1/6 wounds. Stationary 2/9 wounds against termies, 1/9 against hammernators.

Scorpions charging against terminators and hammernators 1/6 wounds, stationary 1/8 wounds

Harlequins with kisses charging against terminators 4/9 wounds, against hammernators 8/27 wounds, stationary 5/18 wounds against termies, 1/6 wounds against hammernators.

For the record, a Fire Dragon's shooting does 14% more damage per point against terminators than charging them with harlequins...

>> No.19480527

>>19480308
>>19480368
>>19480382
>>19480421
>>19480485
>>19480407

>> No.19480569

>>19480489
To be fair, it doesn't hurt that the autarch and exarch hit on 3s, their wound rolls always just seem incredible whenever used. I don't even need doom most of the time.

>> No.19480570 [DELETED] 

>>19480394
I was trying to compare to charging banshees- though I did forget the bonus for a pistol.
Observe, though:
4 attacks hitting on 3+ > 8/3rds hits wounding on 4+ > 4/3rds penetrating 2+ armour on 1 > 2/9th of a kill = 8/36ths
3 attacks hitting on 4+ > 3/2 hits wounding on 5+ > 1/2 wound penetrating a 5++ on 1-4 > 1/6th of a kill = 6/36ths.

With correct math, Harlequins win. Now, imagine they're charging hammernators- where that 6/36ths the Banshees get is 3/36ths.

It doesn't go well. At all.

>> No.19480596

>>19479440
If we want this, we just need to go back to the more-specialized codices of earlier editions. Like the Craftworld Eldar supplement, or the Chaos Legions Supplement, which let you altar your FOC and other stuff based on your army's fluff

>> No.19480607

>>19480394
Trying, and failing. Fortunately, someone better at counting stepped in and proved me correct:
>>19480498

>> No.19480645

>>19480607
Well he was proving his own point, but still not yours. For 140% the price, they cause 11% more damage.

>> No.19480662

>>19480596
>>19479440
I might have to consider getting back into it then. The Forge World books are kinda going in this direction, which is nice, because it allows GW to have the ultra-bland tournament-stable base codexes for 40kiddies and still attract us grognards with stuff that is actually interesting. One can only hope.

>> No.19480678

pic related

>> No.19480682

>>19480645
Yeah, and they also have hit and run and a 5++. They'll survive longer if they stay in the fight due and can still leave the fight if things go south. In any turn against 'nators, they lose 2/3rds as many models as a Banshee unit. That's worth the increase in points alone.
Added bonus: They can carry melta, which is a premium- and the reason Fire Dragons > all other elites.

>> No.19480701

>>19480645

If you're going to talk about relative prices, at least go through the trouble of being consistent.

In this case, saying "For 140 % (137,5 really) the price, they cause 33% more damage against terminators when charging".

>> No.19480727

>>19479673

>Space marines don't actually miss every third time they shoot at a target

Actually, they do. Space Marines are known to be terrible shots and tacticians, which is what their every media appearance bears out.

Actually, they do.

>> No.19480738

>>19479705

Lightsabers are just glorified plasma torches.

Power weapons are a whole nother tier of stupid.

>> No.19480763

>>19480346

>Ward's been promoted to Alessio's former senior games developer position, which means he gets to write rulebooks for both Warhammer games.

>mfw

All you Ward haters get off the bandwagon and on my level

If the Necron codex is any indication, Ward can only mean good for 40k from now on

>> No.19480771

>>19480701
>>19480701
Dear good-math-anon, can you run us a simulation of how equal points of charging Harlequins/Banshees (my math works out to 8 and 11, respectively) versus 5Terminators would go until one side's wiped out, assuming no hit and run or outside help?

>> No.19480798

>>19480492
>"it wouldn't make sense if Daemons weren't overpowered!" He actually said that. Similarly, Mat doesn't believe orcs should be allowed to win ever
Source, please. Mainly for the second one. I think I've seen the original post the first quote came from before, and I highly doubt he was being serious when he said that one army should break the game just 'cos. If he did say that at all.

>> No.19480835

>>19480771

Max squad size for both is 10, so lets just say the banshees have an exarch or something.

Banshees shoot their pistols and charge, kill four terminators, lose one banshee and kill the terminator next turn.

Harlequins shoot pistols and charge in, kill four terminators, have about 50% chance to lose a member and then finish off the last terminator next turn.

Caveat for both situations is the possibility of terminator failing a morale check, disengaging and getting caught by higher I eldar which means it has a 50%-ish chance of dying to no retreat.

>> No.19480864

So, uh, how are tyranids looking for this one?

>> No.19480868

>>19480763

I really dont know where the mat ward hate is coming from. Having only read one of his books,the necrons, I find it to be pretty good. The fluff in it is decent, and the retcon wasnt something horrible (I still like oldercrons a tad bit better, but newercrons are pretty awesome too).

If I had to guess, its all the people who are playing against grey knights. If Mat ward writes the CSM book this year, and the eldar and tau one next year, then the only ones to complain would be IG and Tyranids. Tyranids have a pretty shitty codex already though, so they have very right to complain

>> No.19480883

>>19480868
also, putting matt / ward in your post makes the filter think youre posting spam. (the slash is so it doesnt see it.

>> No.19480886

>>19480868

This is the dude responsible for tyranids.

He might be writing Eldar or Tau right now, who knows...

>> No.19480918

>>19480868
Go read Grey Knights. Or the WHFB Daemons Book. Or the crunch of Blood Angels. THAT is why we hate him. We got lucky with the Necrons. The fluff was bearable, and the crunch wasn't as cheesy as it could have been.

And your forgetting Black Templars and Dark Angels. I pray to god he doesn't get the writing on the Black Templars. Considering how much he dislikes non-codex chapters, we'll probably end up with shitty units, getting killed off in droves in our fluff, and other faggotry. Or we'll get kick-ass crunch, but such horrible fluff that you don't want to play them ever. Or god forbid, we'll end up with Dreadknights.

>> No.19480921

>>19480368
>/tg/ in charge of having shitty opinions
His books make money. Alessio and Thorpe's did not.

There are other factors behind it, but his codexes (codices) are a major part in GW coming out of one of their worst financial slumps.

I like him. He reminds me of the days of Andy C and Fat Bloke.

>> No.19480928

>>19480868
The Newcron codex is without a doubt the most well received of Ward's books, though as with every codex you still get complaints about it, some legit, some "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD". What people have been raging about before then is the other stuff (mainly fluff and his Fantasy rules); his boner for the Ultramarines, Grey Knights killing Sisters of Battle, Draigo, etc. None of which really bothers me, but hey.

Oh, and people also like to make up reasons to hate him - "Ward sculpted the Dreadknight", "Ward invented Jokaero", and so on.

>> No.19480935

>>19480928
Jokero had been around in the fluff before I think. Still odd that the Ordo Malleus would use them and not the Ordo Xenos.

>> No.19480947

>>19480935
EVERYTHING in the Grey Knight book is based on older lore

>> No.19480948

>>19480935

They aren't necessarily a Malleus thing, in case you haven't noticed Ordo Xenos and Ordo Hereticus are in the Grey Knights codex.

>> No.19480963

>>19480948
I noticed that. Just still a little odd that the update of Codex: Daemonhunters would feature the other Ordos and the Jokero. That's my two cents on the matter.

>> No.19481009

>>19480928
>"Ward invented Jokaero"
This would make him a pretty cool guy imo

>> No.19481013

>>19480763
>If the Necron codex is any indication, Ward can only mean good for 40k from now on
If its any indication we will have butchered to hell and back fluff.
Flayed Ones are insane, C'tans retconned, FTL by other means than warp retconned... A lot more blatant Tomb Kings shit that was not fucking needed at all. He made Necrons from The Threat on the same, if not bigger, level than chaos or Tyranids, to non factor faction that wanted to rebuild their empire and live peacefully ever after.
Not to mention unbelievably stupid shit like leg powered ghost arcs and necron pilots.

>> No.19481021

I am quite interested to see if the rumors of the Tau pan out; not from any particular factional loyalty, but simply because it would be such a tremendous change to my perception of the setting.

>> No.19481044

>>19480883
>putting matt / ward in your post makes the filter think youre posting spam

Wait what? I can't say Matt [break] Ward? No way. (just tried to post and holy shit it does. Shame on whoever made that childish decision)

I really wish 4chan would list the things you can't say somewhere. I've had plenty of posts blocked over the years and never known what phrase in them was so offensive.

>> No.19481047

>>19480947
even the Dreadknight?

>> No.19481060

>>19480918
I play Templars and I seriously doubt ward could fuck up much with the templars fluff, the worst he could do is fuck up our chapters size and say fuck you, ur smaller then the ultramarines or you are codex sized. But he can't make us codex based because the very core of the reason the black templars were formed was that veteran imperial fists said fuck your book and fuck your rules, we're going to go kill stuff the way we like.
Ward's crunch is great and ya his demons codec in whfb was an abomination but you can't win them all. Grey knights and necrons are both solid books crunch wise and I expect him to continue doing well with crunch just maybe get a few more editors to check his fluff before it goes in the book. Whoever designed the dread knight though needs to be fired that sculpt is just fucking retarded.

>> No.19481064

>>19481047
To be fair, the dreadknight could have been based on previous lore.

It just wasn't.

>> No.19481067

>>19481044
Oh and his name is spelled Mat Ward. Which somehow isn't blocked. So... shrug?

>> No.19481069

>>19481047
Knight Titans, which were a fusion of Eldar/Imperial tech long before codex: demonhunters came out

>> No.19481081

>>19481013
you do realize that the necrons rebuilding their empire again means reconquering the entire galaxy right? And every dynasty except Imotekh's is doing it by all violent means. So They are still killing everything in this galaxy. Imotekh just has swag and can convince people to surrender.

So, In my opinion, Necrons are the second biggest threat the the rest of the galaxy. First is tyranids, and always will be tyranids.

>> No.19481082

>>19481013

>Necrons from The Threat on the same, if not bigger, level than chaos or Tyranids

Only fanwank made oldcrons this. Their in-codex had some vague wank like everyone else (telling and not showing is bad form, Andy and Graham), but the C'tan were routinely bested by Imperial Marines and Techpriests when they appeared in stories, the Oldcrons got their asses kicked majorly by Templars in comics and Abaddon in the 13th Crusade and they never even managed to destroy or conquer a hiveworld or a forgeworld.

Newcrons have the vague threat (the first few pages of the book says that if the Tomb Worlds are united the Necrons will destroy the great powers of the galaxy and rule forever) and the victories over Marines including First Founding Chapters to back it up, never mind victories leading to destruction and enslavement of imperial hive- and forgeworlds, their most important types of planet.

Oldcrons talk the talk but can't walk the walk, while newcrons do both.

>> No.19481089

Here's to hoping Tyranids get some love.

>> No.19481140

>>19481089
Considering what Cruddace did to them... not anytime soon. Sorry man. At least you have it better than the Daemons and Sisters players, the poor bastards.

>> No.19481205

>>19481081
I do, but it still leave bad taste in the end. They were supposed to be 40k SkyNet, but no, we cant have good things.

>>19481082
Because it was so vague everyone except it to be so much more. Not to mention it doesn't explain stupid retconns in newcrons anyway.
In any books and stories sm always win. Especially if they are not fighting against chaos. All xenos downplayed as much as possible, to the point of even wondering why they needed in 40k at all, sm vs csm all day everyday.

>> No.19481209

>>19481140
The latter of which was also a CrudDex.

>> No.19481210

>>19481082
>if the Tomb Worlds are united the Necrons will destroy the great powers of the galaxy and rule forever
>stealing the orks "ded killy but always arguein an fightin an cant agree on nout" fluff

>> No.19481217

fluff be damned, it's good to read the background and have nice stories and all that but I've got the black library for that. Sure Ward makes some stupid rules (plasma siphon, FNP bubble) but a large amount of his stuff is good.

If he wrote all the new stuff I wouldn't care.

>> No.19481221

>>19481210
necrons can't into originality

>> No.19481228

>>19481210
Or the skaven's
or the chaos guys'

>> No.19481269

>>19481228
Chaos at least attempts to band together every once in a while. Under a competent general, they'd be a serious threat. Instead, they've got Failbaddon, on his 12th try to take Cadia. If your wondering why 12th, it's because Doombreed ran the 5th Black Crusade, and actually got something accomplished through it, and because Doombreed is fucking awesome. Failbaddon took that opportunity to do the dastardly deed of... BURNING A SINGLE CITY TO THE GROUND.

>> No.19481282

>>19481228
Chaos was united, somewhat, in old books. But we can't have good things, so it's mindless frenzied warbands now, enjoy. Honestly i don't think GW will ever bring anything close to legions lists without special characters any time soon, if at all. And that's just rally sad.

>> No.19481292

>>19481269
I think Ahriman should just trick abbadon into launching a black crusade against the black library, just to kill the eldar. Then Ahriman can ascend to godhood, and lead the chaos legions in proper fashion. Be a chaos god in the regular universe.

>> No.19481334

>>19481292
Or Eliphias could take over. He is called the Inheritor after all. And isn't a total fuckup.
Also: Why haven't the forces of Chaos just Exterminatused Cadia if taking it is such a bitch? Seems like the logical solution. Admittedly, it is Chaos were talking about, holders of an idiot ball so big it makes Ward's look like a ping pong ball.

>> No.19481370

>>19481269
Number of Black Crusades Abaddon has led: 13.
Number of times Abaddon has failed to take Cadia: 1 (2nd Black Crusade)

>> No.19481386

>>19481370
More accurately, it would be "Times he wasn't pushed off like a bitch" and he didn't TAKE Cadia. He just landed. And then was driven off like a bitch after burning a few cities and burning shit.

>> No.19481470

>>19481334
>Elpihas
>not a fuckup
hah! Funny joke.

>> No.19481486

>>19481470
Total Fuckup. He hasn't tried and failed to take the same place 12 times.

>> No.19481487

I love how everyone KNOWS that Abbadabba tried and failed to take the Imperium 13 times but ignore that has never been his goal from any single Black Crusade and he has led several victorious crusades also. (Capturing half the Blackstone and destroying the rest he he realised he couldn't take them for one thing)

>> No.19481492

>>19481386
You seem to have misread that post. The point was that Abaddon has not made 13 attempts to capture Cadia, as is often thought by people who don't bother to read the fluff. Only one crusade prior to the 13th had the goal of taking the world - the other times Abaddon merely sent a token force to besiege Cadia as a diversion, or ignored it completely.

>> No.19481513

>>19481492
wait, cadia sits right outside of the eye of terror and he cant even take it? jesus, you have INFINITE DEMONS, why not just continuall ysend them until they run out of supplies/ammo/men?

>> No.19481526

>>19481486
He fucked up so badly that he's now Yabba Dabba's bootlick.

And at least Dooba has some victories under his belt, most dramatically the attack in the Gothic Sector, but there are others

>> No.19481540

I forsee 6'th edition selling very slowly.

Games Workshop is not drawing in any new blood with their restrictive prices.

I remember buying a box of Space Marines back in high school (2000-2001) for about $20.

Price was "just right". The sweet spot as it were. I could really spend it and not feel the ding to my wallet. Hell, sometimes I picked up a pack of models for an army I didn't have just to collect and paint them. $20 was pissing away money. Even a passerby (who ends up never getting into the hobby) but is swayed by the GW sales pitch could throw down $20 and not feel too bad about it.

$30-$40 for a box of troops is guilty money. $30-$40 makes me have to stop and "think" about what I'm buying. It's cheaper for parents to get their kids video game consoles at this rate.

>> No.19481543

>>19481492
But that's the thing. Cadia is the linchpin. As long as the Imperium holds it, they can keep the legions of the damned from flooding out. He hasn't been able to take it. Ever. That is why he's Failbaddon.

>> No.19481560

>>19481526
Still seems more competent to me. Sure, he's under Abbadon's heel. But if he ever breaks lose, I think we might have a truly dangerous Warmaster of the Black Legion.

>> No.19481592

>>19481560
>But if he ever breaks lose, I think we might have a truly dangerous Warmaster of the Black Legion
but you have no basis for that. Eliphas has done absolutely nothing of note, aside from "lead a failed invasion of a single planet" and "let Araghast die at someone else's hands and then get killed"

At least Babs has won a few battles without getting his ass killed by Blood Ravens

>> No.19481603

>>19481592
Just my opinion man.

>> No.19481669

>>19481603
Well your opinion is dumb and I hate you

>> No.19481711

>>19481669
And that's your opinion as well. Now let's get back to arguing like retards on the internet. 5e will save D&D.

>> No.19481928

>>19480918
Kelly has Templars, and Cruddance has Tau. This was confirmed awhile back.

>> No.19481954

>>19481928
what was the last codex Kelly wrote?

>> No.19481966

>>19480963
It also directly undermines the Sisters of Battle, who were generally reliant on the Ordo Hereticus for heavy support in prior editions.

But, given how little Ward seems to care for the Sisters, I'm not surprised. Now am I surprised that the Dreadknight is treated as an MC, but the Penitent Engine, which presumably inspired the Dreadknight and works on the same principle, is a walker, despite the SoB codex coming out AFTER GK.

Translation: bullshit

>> No.19481999

>>19481711
regardless, labeling Abby as a failure while also extolling Eliphas makes no sense. Eliphas is EVEN MORE of a failure

even if you like the guy, "seeming like a more competent leader" doesn't matter when you are repeatedly thwarted for no obvious gain. A 0% success rate is about as bad as they come.

At best you could claim that he survived to the present era from the Horus Heresy, but Dooba Dabba has done the same while also shaping the galaxy with his achievments.

Yeah, he's "failed" to take Cadia, the most heavily guarded planet in the fucking galaxy next to Terra, but Eliphas couldn't even take a single, backwater planet in the midst of open rebellion against it's masters.

>>19481966
The only time sisters have had any sort of link with the Ordos was the latter part of 3rd edition, when the Witch Hunters came out. They relied on the Ecclesiarchy in all instances before that (including the beginning of 3rd and the entirety of 2nd edition)

The "hunter" series of codexes has more retcons than the entire Ward library

>> No.19482003

>>19481954
I want to say Kelly did Dark Eldar, which was generally well received and considered balanced.

>> No.19482010

>>19481928
>Kelly has Templars.
Alright. Thank god. We're safe. I pity the Tau though.

>> No.19482012

>>19481954

Codex Dark Eldar, armybook Vampire Counts.

>> No.19482067

>>19482010
The impression I got was that Cruddance was very excited about the Tau project, and Tau is very mechanized, so maybe they will get more of the IG treatment than the Tyranid treatment.

Keep in mind that IG and Tyranids are VERY different and, while Tyranid players have every right to be pissed at what they got, that it came up short with Cruddance isn't all that shocking to me

>> No.19482079

People who rail on Abaddon fail to realize that not all of his Black Crusades have been about Cadia. (Excluding Crusades we lack info about. Also why the fuck is the field smaller fucking hell moot)

1) Managed to take thousands of planets, and actually broke through the Imperiums defenses. The Astartes, Mechanicus, and Guard had to unite to win. Chaos loses, but manages to fuck a lot of shit up.
2) Tried to do the same thing as before, but the Imperium had better defenses. Chaos loses.
4) Abaddon throws a small force at Cadia as a distraction, and sends the vast majority of his forces out into Segmentum Obscurus. On his way to Terra, they take many planets, and Abaddon manages to destroy the Citadel of Kromarch, and majorly fuck up the planet of El'Phanor. Chaos loses, but manages to fuck a lot of shit up.
7) Chaos flies past Cadia and disappears. They then perform hit and run raids, causing havoc, paranoia, and confusion everywhere. Blood Angels suffer a massive defeat on Mackan. Chaos victory.
8) Nothing major of not, except the Antecanis Massacre.
12) Billions dead, many Imperium planets majorly fucked up, 4/6 Blackstone Fortresses destroyed, 2 stolen. Chaos is pushed back.
13) The only one with the explicit goal of taking Cadia. Abaddon ultimately loses, but as it is the largest mobilization of Imperial troops since the Horus Heresy, Chaos can spring up elsewhere as the Imperium is distracted. Chaos loses, but Chaos gets to fuck shit up.

>> No.19482090

>>19482079

As >>19481513 said, he essentially has INFINITE troops at his disposal. He doesn't NEED to try and win. He can just keep wearing them down. And eventually, on the 56th Black Crusade, he'll take Cadia, because the entire planet is covered in so many bodies that there is no need for Spess Mehreen armies when Nurglish plagues can just reanimate a half mile high mass of bodies.

The Black Crusades aren't about taking Cadia: They're about fucking shit up.

>> No.19482136

im really looking forward to 6th ed as a necron player, but i haven't seen any rumors aside from what was in that leaked thing and some stuff in here

heavy vehicles being able to fire all of their weapons sounds nice for the Monolith, seeing as how thats what it used to be able to do -- though im still sad that living metal and its deep strike rules got watered down

and AP3 power weapons doesn't benefit my Lychguard unfortunately, wish these guys were 2+ so i could run warscythes

>> No.19482187

>>19481013
>Flayed Ones are insane,
They always were.

>C'tans retconned,
Previously, C'tan were massively shit.

>FTL by other means than warp retconned...
You do realize that the webway is how the Eldar travel, right? The C'tan travelling via the Webway and JUST below the Speed of Light (when not used Dolmen gates) is no different than the Eldar doing the same.

>A lot more blatant Tomb Kings shit that was not fucking needed at all.
Oh, so you liked previous "I am angsty and a robot beep boop WARRIORS AND MONOLITH ONLY GREY PAINT JOB NO CREATIVITY" style Necrons? I don't know about you, but most people LIKE being able to add some creativity to their army.

>He made Necrons from The Threat on the same, if not bigger, level than chaos or Tyranids, to non factor faction that wanted to rebuild their empire and live peacefully ever after.
What are you talking about? There could theoretically be a Tomb on EVERY planet. The Necrons are immortal death robots who think of non-Necrons in the same way we think of cockroaches. They want to find biological immortality (So as to get their honor back from the whole C'tan thing, while still keeping their immortality and superiority), then exterminate all life in the galaxy.

>Not to mention unbelievably stupid shit like leg powered ghost arcs and necron pilots.
Ghost Arks aren't powered by legs, and Necrons don't actually pilot Tomb Blades.

>> No.19482237

>>19482187
i think he meant "foot-powered barges" since the pilots have foot rests

speaking of barges, since Anrakyr supposedly can't use his powers from one i haven't used them

anni barges are kickass but i don't have the desire to buy and use three

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