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[ERROR] No.19456988 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

The Tau have superior combat walkers when compared to any other race in 40k, even the Eldar.

So why is it that they do not use them to fix the only flaw in their lineup, mainly close quarters combat?

A crisis battlesuit equipped with some form of melee weapon could easily topple a dreadnought or a wraithlord, if only due to superior mobility. Not to mention what such a suit could do against infantry.

Or do the Tau have some sort of code of honor that shuns melee combat that I have not heard of?

>> No.19457022

because then they'd be space marines

>> No.19457027

Simply put, they're too chicken shit to get up close to the 8 foot tall super warriors with chainsaws and the oversized screaming fungi whirling axes around their heads.

Well, all except one...

>> No.19457038

And even then, he's only got the guts to do that because he is allergic to Ethereal pheromones.

>> No.19457039

Fuck you, captcha.

>> No.19457040

because if theyre good at close quarters too, then they would be even better than spece mahrien and fanboys would weep

>> No.19457056

I want to see human Tau troops in a Tau version of the penitent engine.

>> No.19457058

>Or do the Tau have some sort of code of honor that shuns melee combat that I have not heard of?

Well, yeah...that's kind of their whole mantra. They see it as barbaric.

>> No.19457063

That's why I suggested they would use their battlesuits to make up for what they lack in physique.

>> No.19457075

>> No.19457077

Kroots are for that

>> No.19457088

Cowardice is a powerful beast. No mecha can protect you from it.

>> No.19457093

Why would they need to do that?

So long as they keep the Kroot fed, and the Gue'La Auxilia from thinking, they have all the meatshields and melee they could ever want.

>> No.19457102


>Honorable combat is barbaric

It's not the overly-weeaboo design for pretty much everything, it's not their rabid fans who scream about how they're the shining beacon of light and the last good race in 40k, and it's not TIDF that makes me hate the Tau.

It's the fact that a race who can't hold their own in a melee fight is completely undeserving of any kind of respect.

>> No.19457105

I for one embrace our new squat overlords

>> No.19457108

If they see melee combat as barbaric, why do they keep a species of cannibalistic aliens that feast on the hearts of their enemies as allies?

>> No.19457109

Its seen as "primitive" to their society. they don't even teach hand to hand drills in their cadres

>> No.19457112

Oh you.

>> No.19457120


Because they don't want them as enemies. That's why they don't ask too many questions about the Kroot Mercenary activities.

>> No.19457122



>> No.19457129


rest in peace old buddy

>> No.19457130

What was that word, citizen?

>> No.19457131

What even ARE Tau? Just a race of robots or something?

>> No.19457142

But doesn't associating with honorless scum tarnish your honor?

>> No.19457152

Tau being awful at melee is sort of their thing. However, there ARE ways around this that they could use their cool tech for to help make up for things.

For Example: Imagine a crises suit-esq unit that has NO weapons on it. It is just a battlesuit with jump jets and a huge honking shield generator... that it projects in front of it as a wall. Approaching enemy troops either cant move forward toward it, or move much, much slower. It would be a way to help shield them from their biggest weakness, not be a stupid rehash of a space marine unit, be fitting with their tech level, fluff , and ideology, and would open up new an interesting tactics.

It will, however, never happen. Because half of the work put into 40k is coming up with reasons why chainswords and their ilk are not fucking retarded. So anything that could possibly make chainswords less effective is going to be thrown right out.

Tau suffer from being a ranged focused army put in a game where all of the mechanics are melee biased, and the assumed board size is too small for them to use their superior firepower to do anything before they get overrun. Having great ranged weapons at a cost of losing automatically to anything within 3 feet stops being a good trade when your opponent always starts 10 feet away, not a mile.

>> No.19457153


Little blue bastards trying to usurp the galaxy.

>> No.19457161

Tau will get a 6th ed. codex where that flaw will be addressed.

>> No.19457162






>> No.19457166

Hahaha, yeah. I bet they are robots. Because they're so gay. Gay robots.

>> No.19457179

Why not just have drones that function similarly to these fuckers?

>> No.19457184

there tactics state that kroot ar not there for melee combat, but rather to complament the firewarriors, working well when working toghter. becasue as anyone knows, kroot are only decent in CC, and only so due to numbers+decent stats. being able to over run enemys, but the normal tactic being to use them as cannon fodder is a grave misappropriation of there skills. as they are flanking infantry.

>> No.19457204

The Tau value the Kroot for their stealth and ability to traverse rough terrain. How the Kroot actually engage the foe is up to them. I'd imagine the Tau in general hope they'll one day grow out of it, with the exception of the Fire Caste, who I can see being the only ones who appreciate the Kroot's preference for close combat - as "barbaric" and "unsophisticated" as it is.

>> No.19457209


Oddly enough, despite superior mobility, a crisis suit, even one with a Dreadnaught CCW would get it's ass handed to it by a dreadnaught. It's more maneuverable yes...but it doesn't have the reflexes for close combat. The dread has a sheer speed of reaction it can't match.

>> No.19457214

>No Kroot Shas'O

What about Anghkor Prok who is allowed to lead Tau and Kroot forces into battle?

Surely, you have not forgotten about him?

>> No.19457226

Just wait for the 6th edition codex where tau will get a melee deathstar unit that'll trump pretty much everything.

Or they'll get a jaws of the world woof woof-esque insta-kill attack like mostly everyone.

>> No.19457229

Why hit something with a blunt boring iron bar, when you can more easily vaporize it with pretty orbs of plasma

>> No.19457231

The thing is, a battlesuit is probably nimble enough to wield weapons like a humanoid does. This means it could possibly wield weapons like hammers and spears.

>> No.19457233

While they are one of the few races to use robots they are flesh and blood. They were found as a stone age culture, separated from the galaxy by warp storms for a few thousand years, and during that time evolved into 4 sub-species, the militaristic fire caste nearly wiping one of the others out until the mysterious 5 caste of ethereals came from nowhere and controlled everyone. They reached a high level of technology in those thousand years and emerged to try to get the galaxy to follow 'the greater good'. They are the 'good' 40k race because their end goal doesn't involve complete subjugation or extermination of all other races.

>> No.19457234

>"superior combat walkers"
>explode into little bits on contact with a krak missile or lascannon beam
Tankred frowns on you

>> No.19457243


And yet the Dread would still likely be faster (That and the fact that even with a power weapon...a Crisis Suit can't pen a dread in close combat)

>> No.19457244




>> No.19457245

Short blue guys with no protruding nose. They have fantastic sight, but focus on distant objects much slower than humans, which means that they have to have targeters for medium-long range combat. They have 3 fingers and a thumb, are shorter than humans (Not midget short, more so a head shorter than the average human), have cloven (hooved) feet, and their olfactory senses are inside their mouths. They can also see in infrared and ultraviolet. The Tau are broken up into a caste system (Fire Warriors, Earth Workers, Air Navy, Water Diplomats/Traders, Ethereal Leaders). The Ethereals hold intense sway over the Tau, to the point that a Tau will kill himself without a second thought if told to by an Ethereal. Ethereals have a small organ on their foreheads, which has lead many to speculate that the Ethereals not only use religious and cultural methods to control the other Tau, but also pheromones to literally control them.

They are extremely poor in combat, as they consider it barbaric and savage. As such, they mostly used ranged weaponry, and offset their poor focusing capabilities with advanced targeting systems and drones. They use mechas to augment their firepower further.

Only one Tau ever really fights in melee, and that's General Farsight (O'Shovah). Farsight basically stuck his middle finger up to the Ethereals and the Tau Empire, wishing to fight for the Tau race and not the Greater Good.

The Tau make allies, and have two confirmed bro's: The Kroot (cannibalistic predators who are paid in flesh), and the Vespid. The Kroot are pretty much an entire race of hired mercenaries, and the Vespid are almost 100% confirmed to be enslaved by the Tau (The Tau gave the leaders special collars to allow "Communication". Shortly afterwards, every Vespid was singing praises to the Ethereal caste).

>> No.19457256


Yeah, no.

It depends on the weapon the crisis suit has, but it's likely they can take out a CC dred easily with their agility by merely targeting the weakspots all over the dred design. One shot to those knees and it'll topple (in fluff, not necessarily game). with most weapons a crisis suit packs.

>> No.19457258

>This thread


>> No.19457264

daily reminder
The Tau are mine

>> No.19457266

Prok is definitely a canon character. He's the pre-eminent Kroot Shaper, and the one that actually negotiated the deal between the Kroot and the Tau, IIRC. Whether or not he's actually allowed to lead Tau, however, I couldn't say. It seems unlikely, beyond squads of Pathfinders or Stealth Teams assisting in infiltration/scouting missions.

>> No.19457267


I thought Shas was fire caste only, as in only that caste can take that name, and O is an OLD fire warrior. Or have they reconnected the naming conventions?

>> No.19457269


That's assuming a dread can't do the same. To a lascannon or a missile pod, the ENTIRE Crisis Suit is a weak point.

Dreads are a lot faster than their size and bulk would make them seem.

>> No.19457278

Tankred was only a baddass because plot armor. If he took half the railgun shots shown in the comic on the tabletop, he would have exploded like a chump.

It plot armor counts, though, I would like to submit the MC from Firewarrior as proof that Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, and demons are not all that impressive.

>> No.19457279

Anghkor prok exists, but has no formal rank. He's pulling it out of his ass


Not to mention things like Wraithlords

>> No.19457287

Yes, but a dreadnought still has the reflexes of a computer or space marine, whichever is better. It's going to be far ahead of the crisis suit the entire time.

>> No.19457294

Pfffffahaha AHAHAHA

>> No.19457299


Well yeah. There is almost nothing a Crisis Suit does better than a Wraithlord aside from fly and die.

>> No.19457306

>If he took half the railgun shots shown in the comic on the tabletop, he would have exploded like a chump.
what is "venerable dreadnought"

I've personally had a (venerable) Dread take three turns of shooting from a full broadside unit and survive till the end of a match

>> No.19457312


>> No.19457313

Remember that the Dreadnought pilot is directly interfaced with the suit...he thinks about moving his arm, it moves just like your's would.

The Tau's suits are mecha, the pilot has to think, act on the controls, and then the suit moves. It makes reflexive movement far less effective, and reflexive movement is key for melee combat

>> No.19457321

I once played against my Tau friend who had custom rules for a close-combat battlesuit squad.
They wiped out 5 PAGKS, 3 Paladins, and my librarian because he gave them S6 I5 Power weapons. He ended up tabling me because of all of the damage 3 battlesuits did. I'm going with the theory that because he plays Tau he has a very weak grasp on how CC actually works.

Pic related, he apparently based them off of a gundam or something.

>> No.19457326

While vespid and kroot are the only allies with current in game representations they also have Demiurg (space dwarves mk2) and the psychic Nicassar with BFG models. Lexicanum lists 4 mercenary races, one other race and humans, who all sometimes follow the Tau.

>> No.19457332


Reflexes don't help a crisis suit pilot using those plenty of feet of jumping room. You might turn fast, but if you can't reach 40+ feet you can't grab said suit.

Tau targeting systems are among the most advanced in the galaxy. That close is more than adequate to attack the human-meat driven dred easily.

>> No.19457337


>Yes, but a dreadnought still has the reflexes of a computer or space marine, whichever is better.

Near comatose marine that has been woken from a 400 year slumber, or a computer that no-one in the last 10,000 years knows how to program. OH WATCH OUT GUYS!

Either side is screwed. The blue midgets don't program for close combat because why the hell would you? And the marine might not be in the here and now but re-fighting the battle for the Lions Gate.

>> No.19457338


Consider that every Tau Firewarrior is equipped with a weak form of powered armor (yes, they use powered armor just to get up to THAT level of strength. Poor weak bastards) it seems unlikely that the crises suits are going to be behind that in terms of control systems.

>> No.19457344

>the pilot has to think, act on the controls, and then the suit moves.

Depends on what you're reading. Some sources have them as operated mecha like you describe. Others have them piloted by a mind-uplink, and work as an extension of the Tau pilot's body. Regardless, even if Battlesuits do work by mind-uplink, a Space Marine's mental reflexes and reactions are going to be better than that of a Tau, so it still has the advantage in such situations.

>> No.19457348

That still doesn't count for surprises. A battlesuit can ambush a dreadnought with a DYNAMIC ENTRY and drive it's weapon through the fallen dreadnought.

>> No.19457349

Now, I don't play imperial marines, so I'm going off the assumption that twin-linked bolters on the Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons is not just a chaos thing, but even CC Dreads have bolters on their fists. CC dreads will be shooting back at the crisis suits.
Shas is a caste name and it belongs to all fire caste members and only fire caste members. 'O is an honorific applied to leaders. A ship captain of the air caste would have 'O applied to his name, as would an official ambassador speaking for the ethereals, as does Aun'O, the most important ethereal there is.

>> No.19457352

Fire Warriors don't have powered armor

Stealth Suits do, but..

>> No.19457354

They are extremely poor in MELEE combat*, sorry.

The Tau are the only army to use true AI. The Imperium forbids it (Although some vehicles such as Baneblades have sentient "Machine Spirits"), the Orks are too crude to use it, Chaos uses possessed machines, Dark Mechanicus isn't a faction, Eldar use Eldar souls in walkers, etc. Drones are basically about as intelligent as a Border Collie, capable of being programmed and doing their job, but not much else. They use these for a variety of things, but oddly, not melee.

Farsight is only free from Ethereal control because he stays outside of the Tau Empire in the Damocles Gulf (An area the Tau are afraid to enter).

The Tau are the closest thing to a "Good-guy" race as far as many 40k players are concerned, because even though they commit genocide, blatantly brainwash each other and other species, they are still pseudo-Buddhist Communists with a dream of multiracial Utopia, whereas all the other factions (Sans Orks) are basically only interested in wiping out everything but themselves.

>> No.19457355


Human Meat? Marines are barely human. And if you are shooting ranged weapons, you are not in melee. If you are in melee, the dread is grabbing the Crisis Suit and tearing it apart like wet paper.

>> No.19457358


>S6 I5 Power weapons

...is this how CC feels to a Tau player?

>> No.19457361

Since you cannot read.


He is Shas'O all but name.

Not you again.

I swear you will be the death of me.

>> No.19457363


You should have slapped your friend, this coming from a Tau player.

Pic related, it's your friends faggotry.

>> No.19457364


I know that's how it feels to a Grey Knight player.

>> No.19457371

>Consider that every Tau Firewarrior is equipped with a weak form of powered armor

Source or shut up. Far as I've seen they just have armor plates strapped to em. Maybe their larger arm guards auto-reactive ability like the marines, but power armor?

>> No.19457389

Say, don't the tau have trouble making out things moving at a close distance? I'm wanting to say this is from Xenology, but my memory is hazy.

>> No.19457400




>> No.19457401

I wasn't going to slap him because honestly I didn't really care that much over losing a 40k game that we were playing to test said CC battlesuits.

>> No.19457403

>Since you cannot read.
>He is a shas'O in all but name
so you admit that I'm right? He isn't a Shas'O. Full stop.

>Tau targeting systems are among the most advanced in the galaxy
if "among the most" means "worse than Eldar, Imperial, Necron..."

Jumping into CQC with a dreadnought will net you a fist to the face. Especially when you're as big as a battlesuit is. Dreadnoughts can catch INFANTRY that are swarming around them.

>> No.19457404

To be fair battlesuits are S5, can have I3 the weapons they mount are pretty effective (so a melee replacement probably would be) and normal battlesuits aren't really trained for close combat. S6 I5 power weapons still takes it too far, but S5 I4 power weapons wouldn't be that bad.

>> No.19457416

Anedoctal evidence.


>> No.19457421

Xenology is imperial propaganda and should be taken as complete fabrication.

>> No.19457423


Eh, if Sisters can't get Init 4 on Penitent Engines, I don't think Tau should get it on melee-suits if they were to exist.

>> No.19457434


Lol, sounds like someone's butthurt that Tau are capable of strength with Space Marines on the tabletop.

Fluff has their CC weakness due to focusing times, not strength.


Fluff anon, is what we're talking about. You don't truly think that shooting doesn't occur the minute anything in the universe gets close do you? Or do you believe the tabletop ranges to be good representations of effect?

Regardless, bolts have shown to be capable of taking out an XV8, so it is possible, though it's not a given.

>> No.19457440

Dreadnoughts are also good at catching meltas and fusion guns.

>> No.19457446

True, however, the Kroot and Vespid are the most prominent.
The Kroot are basically "You are what you eat" personified, as they will literally evolve and change depending on what they eat. The are absolutely forbidden from eating Tyranids (It makes the hivemind control them) and Psykers (While the Tau are ignorant of the Warp and its danger, the Kroot are not).

The Kroot have "Shapers" who are basically wizened Kroot who know what eating certain things will do. They are basically badass geneticist hunters.

The Tau also make use of "Gue'vesa", which are basically Humans enlisted into the Tau Empire (Willingly or unwillingly). The Gue'vesa fill a roll somewhere between "meat shield" and "valued soldier", largely depending on the planet and battle. The Tau are however, not above letting a few Gue'vesa kick the bucket if it means a few Firewarriors get spared. Gue'Vesa techology is usually somewhere between Tau and Imperium, with Tau Pulse Rifles and Imperium Lasguns usually being used in the same squad.

Upon being inducted into the Great Good, Humans are required to no longer worship the Emprah.

>> No.19457449

>implying your claim wasn't equally Anedoctal
40k is a glorified dice game. Venerable Dreadnoughts have a much larger chance of survival against Railguns than Crisis Suits (or Broadside suits, or Crisis Commanders, or..) do.

>roll to hit
>roll to wound (2+)


>roll to hit
>roll to penetrate
>roll for vehicle damage
>re-roll from "Venerable" special rule

and if it's a one-on-one fight, the dreadnought is going to be packing a lascannon, which will insta-gib the battlesuit

>> No.19457453

IF the dreadnought is aware of your presence.

>> No.19457459

Why are we assuming that neither the battlesuits nor the dreads have any kind of backup whatsoever? Space Marines aren't the type to let such cherished heroes go around chanting LEEROY JENKINS way away from the rest of the force.
For that matter why aren't we all explaining just how silly he is to suggest that wraithlords are going to be outmanuevered by crisis suits?

>> No.19457462

actually they are allowed to do as they wish religion wise

>> No.19457463

Well, but he's not a Shas, so he could never be a Shas'O.
The proper term would actually be "Jikita'O" which means the same thing, but is for Kroot and not the Fire Caste.

>> No.19457466


Check BFG, see those ships that place the targeting right behind Eldar and Necrons? Good.

See those targeting systems in Aeronautica Imperialis? Good

In the 40k range you see those Targetting Array options on nearly everything and the markerlights? Yeah, thought so.

>> No.19457469

>implying Battlesuits wouldn't show up like a beacon on any sensor equipment the dreadnought has
jump jets are a liability when you're trying to sneak up on something

>> No.19457473

You forgot about the battlesuit allocating the wound to a shield drone and successfully making the 4+ invuln save.

>> No.19457481

>Tau targeting systems are worse than the equivalents

Doesn't seem that the other races' targeting arrays actually do anything for them.

Also, tau have sensor spines that allow their tanks to skim through terrain to use it as cover, without any downside to actually going through said terrain.

>> No.19457483

>still using melee weapons
yes, lets talk tactics

>> No.19457496

>Superior Combat walkers
I know some Titans that would like a word with you.

>> No.19457503

>not planting your power boot in tha enemies of teh emprah

>> No.19457506

>commit genocide

When did anything like this happen?

>brainwash each other and other species

They are accused of brainwashing other species. Take note these accusations come from their enemies who desire nothing but distort the good image of the Tau.

>dream of multiracial Utopia

Somehow is that a bad thing?

Very well, I concede.

However, he has the same honour and privilege of a Shas'O. What does a title matter, anyways.

>> No.19457510

>Implying a battlesuit made for close quarters combat wouldn't be outfitted with scramblers

>> No.19457515

Giving the mechas I4 is making them too fast. Then they're just as fast as a Wraithlord, and Eldar are all about PRETERNATURAL SPEED. You have to take into account other armies than marines guys. I4 is the providence of marines, eldars, nids and characters.

>> No.19457517

And in that case the question becomes whether or not the jet packs used by stealthsuits are specialised to be silent or if crisis suits have an equally silent running.
Yes, dipstick, and "kiting" (to use the vidya term) is how the tau canonically fight. We know the tau have incredible firepower. So do the Tau. OP's hypothetical assumes close combat with close combat weapons like knives and chainsaws.

>> No.19457527

you'll have to catch me first

>> No.19457543


I don't because those things are fucking silly. Unless you've got a guard of whatever the hell your troops are someone will run up to you, plant a couple of charges while they're under your guns and cripple you. A tank sized walker is less at risk from infantry than the "Gods", because at least the small walkers can either thrash like crazy or bring their guns to bear. Unless a titan wants to blow its legs off it needs the skitarii guard (or whatever) to keep the ants off its legs.

>> No.19457546

Jet packs do not really need to be silent if the effective range of the jump allows for dynamic entry from outside audible ranges.

>> No.19457552

Giving Crisis suits int 4 because of fluff is kinda like giving IG BS4 because they are shown as cadian shock troopers, and Cadians are " known crack shots"

it kinda breaks things a bit

>> No.19457558

Remember, the battlefields are littered with titans who disregarded infantry.

>> No.19457561

Maybe I3 +1 in assault because dynamic entry by jet packs ?
Also a cc crisis need hit and run.

>> No.19457564

That is why we had regimental doctrines to represent crackshot IG.

And since those don't exist because customization is bad and everyone should be the same, there is no way we can represent that.

>> No.19457568

There was originally going to be a close combat battlesuit released by Forge World after the XV-9, the XV-6. However, something killed that project. All word suddenly ceased, and nobody wanted to talk about it anymore.

It is a mystery.

>> No.19457572

You're resorting to greentexting? And when has anyone in the 40k universe had scramblers that worked on dreadnoughts?

>> No.19457577

Come at me Tau

>> No.19457582

from an old drawthread

>> No.19457585

Dynamic entry and other initiation-type combat techniques are represented by the furious charge special rule.

>> No.19457588

But the thing is that BS3 is SUPPOSED to represent people who are good shots.It's just that the game is so full of BS4 that it seams like BS3 sucks. Anything with a skill of 4 or higher represents incredible skill or decades or centuries of training.

>> No.19457592

But... the poster I quoted greentexted too.

>> No.19457593


IG vets do get BS4.

I think Tau Crisis/Broadside suits should get it too tbh, it's pretty dumb to expect them to have fire warrior BS forever while some Tau HQ's get BS5 base.

Farsight and Aun'shi (both I5) also prove Tau initiative can get higher than 2 or 3.

>> No.19457601

Only if the jet pack allows for supersonic speed.

>> No.19457609

He also supplemented it with an actual argument.

>> No.19457615

Not really. Even ranges akin to 100 meters are enough to mask the sound of the thrusters, especially on a battlefield where two sides are at war against eachother.

>> No.19457617


Except the average Guardsman is not a Cadian, not a Mordian, or Tallarn, etc.

The average guardsman is worse than todays soldier in training. I relate you to page 68 of the Dark heresy PHB for that little tidbit that's sure to piss off the IG fanboys.

>> No.19457623


Those are special characters. The fact that St Celestine has Init 7 doesn't mean that Sisters all over the place should be getting init 5.

>> No.19457625

I figure the reason Tau are terrible at close combat are for a few main reasons:

1.) First and foremost, game balance is required. Tau's shtick is needing to utilize mobility rather than running to pile in like several others.

2.) Tau shun close combat, as it reminds them of the Mont'au, or "the terror," the dark barbaric time the Tau endured before the Ethereals appeared. Thus they attempt to be more civilized and defeat their opponents through power projection over long distances.

3.) It is probable that Tau Crisis Suits' programming for movement and battle is still probably being perfected. Thus, pilots might find that they lack the precision they require for a hulking walking tank to be capable of fighting a smaller, nimbler foe. This could help explain why many of the stronger characters have higher abilities in close combat; they're outfitted with equipment that lets them fight as they need to in those situations.

>> No.19457630


>IG vets do get BS4.

And Vets are meant to be rare and the few hard bastards left after a few warzones. It's only the latest codex that allowed them to come out in such force, and look at what that did. Vet lists across the board. You table any guard but a veteran list and people start smirking because they know you just started the hobby.

As the other poster said, broken.

>> No.19457631


Indeed, it seems Only War is going back to 20+2d10 for stats.

>> No.19457638

Though it should mean that the sisters superior and their crew should be a cut above the rest.

Not like where the Shas'vre's are just firewarriors in suits.

>> No.19457640


But that's a fluff argument.

This is a game where a normal human cultist assassin is faster than a Space Elf or Marine veteran with centuries of training, as strong as an Ork Nob and has better weapon skill than the terminators of Imperium's super-secret lavishly equipped anti-Chaos Astartes.

>> No.19457648

gentlemen, if tau were to make CC suits, wouldn't they be stealth suits+?
i mean, they thrive on hit and run tactics, are equipped with things that NO other codex have, stealth feild generators, that (despite necrons) were unheard of awesome, but got shuffled behind because they have to get close to use there guns.,

>> No.19457650

can you post a screencap, I'm interested but don't want to find a pdf of the book.

>> No.19457654


To these sort of Imperial fans(?) thank you. Thank you for realizing that the system is flawed and the fluff we argue over is likewise tainted by armies favored and the grey information or red herrings fed to us by GW.

>> No.19457659

But Tau Suitss are weak as paper compared to other walkers.

Plot armor doesn't really extend to line troops. Tau Battlesuits couldn't be ninjas as superior dodging skills are received to heroes and units like Wyches, not massproduced robots and monsters.

>> No.19457663

>Stealth field generators
>Unique to the Tau


>> No.19457669


St Celestine is powered by Emperor's Jesus-magic and can resurrect after nukes.

Tau SC's like Aun'shi prove that mere training can get them to I5, which means Tau fluffwise have the potential without magic.

>> No.19457676


That's not stealth, that's misdirection!

>> No.19457691

These threads always ammuse me.

People bitch and moan about how good marines are, then want their army to be good at everything.
Yeah Tau not having bs4 sucks, but CC mechs? Really?
"I play Eldar, but they're all too easy to kill. They have advanced technology so they should all have t4 and 3+/4+ saves base."
This is what you sound like. Tau are a shooty army, it's their hat. I could see make kroot a bit better a cc, maybe the equivelent of Wracks with FNP or give them a regular 4+ save so they're tougher Boyz, but wanting to play Tau and still be good at close combat is like wanting to play Eldar and have the toughness of a Draigowing terminator list, or playing footslogging IG and then complaining that Dark Eldar are flying circles around you/

>> No.19457697

Fuck that's supposed to be a period at the end not a slash.

>> No.19457702


>> No.19457706

>Melee combat is barbaric
>Make robots that specialize in melee combat
>You don't have to sully your hands and you've filled a gaping hole in your strategy

Tau are silly for not doing this

>> No.19457716

Marbo has I5 too. That doesn't mean that any human could just train until he reaches that point.

Generally elite troopers receive boost of one to their trained skills. With superior technology or magic the elites could boost their stats beyond that for example harlequins, the halberd units of GK and arguable the dodge save of wyches.

>> No.19457720

No, you don't understand anything.
It's just about making mecha with sword.

>> No.19457721


What part of page 68?

>> No.19457733

Yeah, and all of us have the "potential" to be world class Olympic gold medalist runners, but most people aren't. Arguing that a special character has higher stats so the army he is from should have them is retarded. Hey look, Straken is S6, all guardsmen should be s4. Yarrick can get up after losing all his wounds, so all guardsmen should get FNP. Vect is WS8, so all kabalite warriors should be WS5.

>> No.19457735

Then why are marines allowed to be good at everything?

>> No.19457737

Why are all three instances of ``fl'' missing?

>> No.19457739


Because they make GW more money than all other armies combined.

>> No.19457740

Because they are ward's mary sues.

>> No.19457743


>Make robots that specialize in melee combat

Have you seen how their drones work? They're not exactly the greatest things and the fewer numbers they have slaved together the worse they get. Melee robots would quickly become ineffective and a waste of resource when you can simply try to blow the enemy to hell before he can pull a knife.

>> No.19457751

I have a question. If you have flamethrowers, why would you ever bother with close combat with infantry? If you have meltaguns, why would you ever get into a punching match with a dreadnought?
Lesser walkers, like War Walkers and Sentinels I could see someone charging, but anything packing a dreadnought CCW? No thanks, not when I can just shoot a meltagun at it.

>> No.19457757

I pretty much agree with you.

Like I said, base guard with BS4 would BREAK things badly...

Though I do miss doctrines in IG armies.

>> No.19457764

But the worst offender of jack of all trades master of everything are Kelly's Space Wolves.

Ward doesn't roll with shit like that. Sure his fluff is bad but he doesn't bring that shit over to crunch.

>> No.19457770


The entire section pointing out the grab bag that IG are, everything from ultra-violent savages to the trained experts.

>> No.19457777

do you count as being in nightfight? didnt fucking think so

>> No.19457794


No one is arguing about giving Fire Warriors BS4 or otherwise buffing baseline troopers. What players (reasonably) want is to have xeno factions' veterans scale in stats like Guardsmen get to do.

IG vets are BS4 and they're common troops. Crisis suits who are more analoguous to Storm Troopers (BS4) in how "elite" they are deserve BS4 too, as becoming experienced in shooting is kind of expected of them.

>> No.19457810

I'm not seeing it. Is is the no standard training thing? That doesn't mean they're trained more or less than a modern soldier, it even says it depends on the regiment. A backwater tribal with a spear won't receive formal training at a basic camp, but it doesn't say that the majority of the regiments don't have good training. In other fluff sources it even mentions how planets tend to send their best to the guard. If you look at, say, the National Guard as PDF then the Army would go and be the guardsmen.
>inb4 amerika army sukz
It's just to illustrate my point. That package is pretty flimsy. It flat out says training depends on regiment, no 'training sucks'.

>> No.19457814

No.. no
tau has the single strongest weapon in the game, Markerlight.

>> No.19457820


Dude, I play Tau. You're making us look bad. Eldar have better cloaking fields, we just happen to have more of it deployed out.

So you have Russian vs. U.S. ideals in those two examples.

>> No.19457825


>The average guardsman is worse than todays soldier in training.

>The entire section pointing out the grab bag that IG are, everything from ultra-violent savages to the trained experts.

So like the average solider picked at random from earth?

>> No.19457826

sorry for the temporary rage...

>> No.19457840


If you really played Tau you'd know Markerlights stack up to BS5 not 6.

>> No.19457841


Markerlights? Now that you mention it, pathfinders are another unit direly in need of BS4.

>> No.19457847

Battlesuit systems are less dependant on the pilot and thus the accuracy boost for the line troops rightfully comes from the wargear, either in the form of twinlinking or Targeting Array.

Snipers are Drone and thus can be veterans, though BS 2 is kinda stupid for something designed for sniping.

Pretty much the only unit that should get BS boost to the statline due to training are Pathfinders.

>> No.19457851


It's why my markerlights come from Tetras. It's like every problem with pathfinders was fixed.

>> No.19457852

Please respond (>>19457737).

>> No.19457858

Vanilla marines *aren't* good at everything. They're jack of all trades. A mech vanilla marines army will get out CC'd by Orks or Dark Eldar, get out maneuvered by Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tau, and will get outshout by Guard. They're good at everything and great at nothing. It's only once you get into Space Wolves (Which is literally Vanilla Marines but better and cheaper) or GK that they get broken.

And people bitching about marines being depicted as great at everything in the fluff need to shut the fuck up already. It's hat. They're really good because the Emperor needed really good space dudes to conquer the galaxy. It's always been in their fluff that they kick ass. Eldar are fast, there's lots of Guardsmen, and marines will always kick your ass if you don't outnumber them 30000000 to 1. It's just how the setting works.

>> No.19457861

sorry boss. forgot mah numbas again... ill just start lurkin again...

>> No.19457862

They are expensive.

>> No.19457868

>Battlesuit systems are less dependant on the pilot and thus the accuracy boost for the line troops rightfully comes from the wargear, either in the form of twinlinking or Targeting Array.

What people are suggesting, is that battle suits have a targeting array (thus bs4) as base.

>> No.19457869

>Out CC'd by orks

What. Maybe in numbers, but in killy power, nope.

>> No.19457883


Foxit PDF interactions.

>> No.19457891



Seeing how even third world countries will train their military better than gang members or savages, it stands to reason the average trained military man will be better off.

If you go a little further into the book, you'll see these Guardsmen aren't even given the ability to do very much at that. The descriptions for their abilities as conscripts are poor, but not spectacular as guardsmen either.

Nothing to suggest superior performance (as a base human) until further along where fluff has shown the IG numbers to radically dwindle due to commanders idiotic ways or enemies making them pay.

>> No.19457899

Again, that's their bit. A dedicated Ork cc army will crush the equivalent points cost in a standard vanilla marines list provided they get into close combat because marines don't have the numbers to make all those saves.

>> No.19457907

Melee battlesuits could work.

"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee"

>> No.19457912

Does it matter?

The price needs to be re-evaluated in the light of current design environment anyways. Thus the accurate suits are probably going to be cheaper in points than the current ones even if they keep the Array a separate purchase.

Tau are mass manufacturing all their weapons, they have no technoteological doctrine slowing them down and thus everything is pushed out in modular barebones form.

>> No.19457913

>The Tau have superior combat walkers when compared to any other race in 40k, even the Eldar.

That's your first mistake, tau are the only race without walkers.

When putting on a battle suit the size of a tank and you still only count as T4 with an extra wound, you know your tech is shit.

>> No.19457925

>Seeing how even third world countries will train their military better than gang members or savages

What the fuck are you smoking?

>> No.19457930


Furthermore, depending on the weight you give the Infantryman's Uplifting Primer It gets really hilarious... Normal IG soldiers aren't even given the means to recharge their powerpacks normally, or given the knowledge to operate the re-charger because that's super double secret information to the Imperium.

It's common knowledge, at least, to charge them with fire luckily.

>> No.19457932

The suits are ~2.8 metes tall.

Since when did tanks because so small?

>> No.19457938

Become so small*

Typo. Durr.

>> No.19457944

>There is no time for peace. No respite. No forgiveness.
>There is only WAR.

>In the nightmare future of the 41st Millennium, Mankind teeters upon the brink of destruction. The galaxy-spanning Imperium of Man is beset on all sides by ravening aliens and threatened from within by Warp-spawned entities and heretical plots. Only the strength of the immortal Emperor of Terra stands between humanity and its annihilation, and in his name, countless warriors and agents do battle against the encroaching darkness. Foremost amongst them stand the Space Marines, the ultimate protectors of Mankind.

>Across airless moons, within the depths of dark, twisted hive worlds and even in the immaterial realm of Warp space, battles rage that will shape the future of the galaxy forever.

>It is a universe that you can enter today, if you dare. But remember that this is a dark and terrible era, and there is no peace amongst the stars...

>The Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook is your essential guide to playing atmospheric battles in the 41st Millennium. It helps you field majestic armies of Citadel miniatures across the war-ravaged battlefields of the far-future, in the ultimate contest of strategy and skill.

>With 440 full-colour pages, this hardback Rulebook is packed with rich background and contains all the rules for fighting pulse-pounding tabletop battles. The Rulebook includes exciting features such as dynamic close-combat, flyers, psychic devastation and interactive scenery. As well as jaw-dropping artwork, contained within is a history of the 41st Millennium and a richly detailed guide to the races and weapons of the far-future. It also features a comprehensive hobby section to set you on the path to choosing, collecting and building your own Warhammer 40,000 army of Citadel miniatures.

>> No.19457950


In 40k, it's a little known fact that humans are 2 feet tall. Commanders are 3 feet, while spess mehreens push 5'5". The tanks are scaled accordingly.

>> No.19457955

Mobility counts for surprisingly lot. Even the most devastating of weapons is useless if it does not hit its mark.

>> No.19457959

>One of the many exciting features of Warhammer 40,000 is Psychic devastation, where Psykers wreak havoc on the battlefield. Psychic Powers is the complete set of Psychic cards, which be used in conjunction with Psychic Disciplines. They make a great accessory to your tabletop games.

>This set contains 35 large-format cards and come stored in a plastic fan-opening case, which bears the Aquila. There are 7 cards for each Psychic Discipline, each of which is represented by distinct artwork. There is also an instruction leaflet that classifies which powers can be used by the main Psykers in the Warhammer 40,000 universe.

>> No.19457962

>Commanders are 3 feet
I bet it's the hats.

>> No.19457964

>Pro Xeno AdMech dudes reverse-engineer Tau mechas
>Claim it's from a STC
>Imperium uses Mechs too
>Tau mad, Eldar jelly

Fire matt woahrrd, hire me;

>> No.19457966


Well, seeing the amount of ex-soldiers amongst the drug warlords in South America, I'd wager I was correct in my claim.

So, the real meat of the issue has another bone of contention. Do YOU lot have any source stating that Cadians are the IG standard?

Burden of proof is technically on whomever makes that original claim, but since many 40kfans like to make claims I don't expect whomever started that trend in thinking to pop up years later in a random thread.

I would ask for any proof of that though from anyone arguing now.

>> No.19457984

Kinda why I always wondered why CADIANS are shown as the standard guardsman.
Know about chaos and even its different sects and organizations
They know how to strip clean and resemble most weapons mechanically without rites of repair or litanies of cleansing
They are very mechanically savy without the admech telling them what to do
They are good shots
They don't need commissars unless they get VERY unruly. even then they are only there for administration, not morale

They aren't your run of the mill Guard regiments. But everyone wants to be like the Caians, because some planetary govenor read "Cadia Today" in his issue of Bolter and Eagle and wants to BE cadia.

>> No.19457993

>The suits are ~2.8 metes tall.

Jesus Christ, are you serious? How fucking tiny are fire warriors, cause that compartment that they pilot it from is tiny.

Still all of that armor and tech for what equates to T4 and W2 is retarded. Tau are frail and their tech works its hardest just to put them on par with everyone else in the galaxy

>> No.19457998


Would you mind telling me where this is from?
Thanks in advance

>> No.19458004

I do believe about a foot or two shooter than humans.

>> No.19458016

To be fair, it is tabletop so everything is skewed.

The tau also do have quite a leg up, it's impressive how such a teeny tiny empire can cause so much ruckus, isn't it?

>> No.19458020


They are shown as IG because the people who want to play the downtrodden, damaged, deranged, and utterly loyalist regiments aren't pretty, neat little soldiers.

I love the IG because of what they aren't, not for what they are. In a universe that literally threatens their souls on a daily basis, with information secrecy and fear doctrine, I love that the IG, the real IG are the greatest example of Humanity Fuck Yeah that has ever graced fiction to date.

>> No.19458021

"Ey Boyz! Ya sees dat dere big humie stompie thingie? I gots 'ere a new kind o' bomb. Ya stikz da meltie thingie to da plazma thingie to da magneto thingie and 'clank!' 'boom!' Watch da stompie thingie fall down. THen ya getz to choppin!"

>> No.19458022

I'm afraid I have no idea. It's on the Lexicanum page for Varro Tigurius.

>> No.19458033

>The tau also do have quite a leg up, it's impressive how such a teeny tiny empire can cause so much ruckus, isn't it?

This is what Tau players actually believe.

>> No.19458049


>Well, seeing the amount of ex-soldiers amongst the drug warlords in South America, I'd wager I was correct in my claim.

African child soldiers and the general level of training of the african militias, plus the sheer numbers skews things.

>ex-soldiers amongst the drug warlords

Great, so because the General is a great soldier the whole army is? Brilliant logic. It's more of a case of a soldier that realises he's not being paid enough, and that he can do a better job. Staging a coup doesn't make you brilliant soldier.

>> No.19458056

>That feel when the Emperor would ally with the Tau in a heartbeat if he was capable of doing so

>> No.19458064

Thank you, my good sir!
The Guard isn't the elite vetreans of Cadia, its the Farmer that had to lay down his life so that his family had a few more seconds to get to the escape shuttle.
Its the Man that lives in the worst conditions possible fighting against horrors that taunt him in his dreams, and he still fights, because others might live.
All they have is the guardsman to their sides, and a loaded lasrifle. Nothing else matters

They will hold the line.

>> No.19458066


3rd ed marine codex iirc. Its the art that is next to his codex entry.

>> No.19458072

just 11 more days untill we find out how far there spunk got them in the universe, since 4th

>> No.19458076

That feel when its because the Emperor made the Etherials to combat the forces of chaos for humanity.

>> No.19458079



>> No.19458089


I've always enjoyed the fact that the average guardsman was doing what he could with what little he had.

>> No.19458101


I'm not sure of your reading level, but I highly doubt there are African child soldiers in South America.

Furthermore, the standing armies of South America and various ex-Warsaw pact nations will more than outnumber those of South Africa.

Consider also this is just third world countries I use as an example, the standing armies of first world countries skew the numbers so heavily in my claims favor that your savages and gangers have no claim to anything other than a small minority.

>> No.19458128


>Furthermore, the standing armies of South America and various ex-Warsaw pact nations will more than outnumber those of South Africa.

YOUR reading comprehension needs work. I said "african militas". Not South African forces. You say soldiers, what you mean is formally trained members of a standing army. I'm saying "dude given a 70's era knock off of a chinese ak clone" in some African shithole that has a name on map that only the UN cares about.

>> No.19458200


You'll note that I made no claims to the militias. When I wrote "South Africa" it's because that had the largest concentration of ill-trained forces present on Africa.

North Africa has more than enough trained soldiers to outnumber the rabble on their own, hence why I used only South Africa in my phrase.

Good try though anon, but I'm still waiting for your fluff quote of IG average quality.

>> No.19458213

Just stop it, you double Gue'la.

I will accept the Tau being the progeny of the El'Dar sooner than the Tau being the experiments of the Tyrant of Terra. Both are equally false by the way.

There is no ''unseen'' outside hand puppeteering the Tau. The destiny of T'au as proclaimed by the master of the Undying Spirit is to unite this entire galaxy under the banner of the Greater Good. In order to achieve this the Throne of Terra must be toppled down.

Why would the so called ''Emperor of Mankind'' create a race that seeks to subvert his authority? Can you fill this hole in your claim, Gue'la?

>> No.19458224

No. They don't cause a lot of ruckus. That's what keeps them alive. They only remain alive because the Imperium is dealing with killer fungus that can almost literally never be removed, space dinosaur bugs coming from outside the galaxy, and killer zombie robots that can almost literally never be truly destroyed. A single spore is all it takes to spread the fungus, there are theoretically infinite of the dinosaur bugs, and every planet could in theory house a killer zombie robot tombworld without the Imperium having any clue or way of checking. The Tau are one Black Templar crusade away from being nothing more than a footnote on the history of the Eastern Fringe.

Here is the Spess Mehreens galactic view.

Here is the IG galactic view.

Now here is the Tau galactic view.

The entirety of the Tau force is concentrated north of Macragge, and east of Dreer. Dreer is a regimental tithe world, so it isn't much threat to the Tau, but Canta IX (A manufactorum forgeworld) is just a short hop away, and that's just the IG. An entire Black Templar crusade can be turned the opposite direction and stomp the Tau out on its way to another threat.

The Tau are one of many small Alien Empires. The only reason they are still around is because the Imperium is too busy fighting lions to notice the flea on its ankle.

>> No.19458225

I took a nap and a lot of people thought they were in charge

>> No.19458230


>Good try though anon, but I'm still waiting for your fluff quote of IG average quality.

I just asked what you were smoking after the
>Seeing how even third world countries will train their military better than gang members or savages

I still think you need to put the crack pipe down.

>> No.19458278


My prior post makes it clear any dissenting opinion will be gladly welcomed. Purely an ad hominem approach due to an inability to dictate the debate terms is not very well thought out.

>> No.19458297

>>The Tau have superior combat walkers when compared to any other race in 40k, even the Eldar.

>> No.19458335

Something to think about, OP:

Eldar have actual titans that are more mobile than Tau battlesuits. They also have those Wasp assault walker things, which, last I checked, were a ridiculously fantastic unit, better than Crisis suits at basically everything (better BS, better mobility, just as much firepower potential if not more, etc).

>> No.19458343

>Not an attempt to move towards a more mobile walker model, such as the Tau battlesuits

>> No.19458355


Actually, fluffwise the Dreadknights are not new, while the Tau are. Furthermore, their technology is modelled after existing Imperial technology (titans and Penitent Engines), and not after the Tau. Thus, you're kinda full of shit.

>> No.19458361

Do you know what a Knight Titans is?

It’s somewhere between an upscaled Dreadknight and a downscaled Warhound. Mobile, heavily armed, and heavily armoured. The only reason you don’t see them in standard 40K games is GW’s hesitance to incorporate the big Titan Legion stuff into the line.

>> No.19458372

The Tau can not defeat the Imperium by might alone (yet). The battle for the fate of humanity must fought in light as well as the shadow.

The Tau through espionage, trade, and diplomacy are spreading the ideals of the Greater Good within the Imperium. No part of the Imperium has not been touched by Tau influence (Even Terra itself), despite the efforts of the Imperials to quarantine the Tau.

The Collectivist teachings of the Greater Good is the bane of the Imperium. Slowly it is seeping into the minds of the Imperial populaces and encouraging them to open their ignorant minds and to lash out against tyranny.

You see, by simply existing and prospering the Tau are harming the Imperium. Weakening it until one day it will collapse then the Tau will come to pick up the pieces.

A failure who could not stop his people from succumbing to their own Mont'au, should claim credit for the success of others.

Sleep well, Tyrant, sleep well while the Tau make right what you made wrong.

>> No.19458374

I never implied that it was an attempt to copy Tau tech, just that it was an attempt to be more mobile than a metal coffin on two stubby legs.

>> No.19458470

Should not*

Anyways, that rumor said that Tau will play part in Chaos's ultimate destruction (I want to believe!). In no way did it say the Emperor was responsible for the creation of the Ethereal Caste.

You Imperials give your Emperor too much credit. If you could get away with it you would claim ''The Emperor did everything''.

>> No.19458480


Uh, no. The Tau don't really have much of a 'leg up' at all.

In the new Dark Eldar codex, there's a story about Urien Rakarth toying with the young and dynamic Tau. He basically fucks them over with ease, and they fall right into it because they are
A. Completely ignorant of pretty much any sort of galactic politics
B. Terrified of the massive Tyranids flooding in.

The Tau don't have the tact nor the manpower to survive in the 40K universe. The Imperium has tried several times to amass forces to destroy them, but something like a massive Ork Waaagh or a Black Crusade always comes up first.

Tau players should realize they're playing a shit army that has less chance of survival than the Eldar.

>> No.19458522

You amuse me.

You will serve us well in the coming days

>> No.19458530

When they are used up, may I have the pleasure of finishing them as they deserve, My Emperor?

>> No.19458544

Yeah I’m pretty sure it is implied somewhere that the ethereal cast was created by the eldar to unite the tau and give them another pawn to play with. Also Wraith lords Eat crisis suits for breakfast.

>> No.19458548


I despise you and all you stand for, false one, but I'd fight by your side any day if it would only cleanse the galaxy of these filthy xenos.

>> No.19458565



>> No.19458568

No. All that benefit humanity are to stay.
This is how it has always been. It wasn't until they ruinous Echlesiarchy gained power that this changed. Even the High Lords were informed that any aliens proving to be reasonable to humans were to be accepted. and those that only wanted destruction

Were to be removed.

>> No.19458572

>Tau are spear chucking savages that have barely discovered fire
>No Ethereals to be found
>Suddenly, warp storm envelops the planet
>As it dissipates, the Tau emerge with plasma rifles and battlesuits, led by these Ethereals that appeared out of nowhere

It must be Tzeentch. He saw that the Tau are not very ample targets for corruption, so he does the next best thing and rules them through proxy. This proxy being the Ethereals, who are probably Lords of Change in disguise.

There's also the curious fact that the first message the Imperium found from the Tau Empire contained the phrase; "Change is the one constant in the universe. The wise adapt."

>> No.19458574

>that rumor said that Tau will play part in Chaos's ultimate destruction

No, the Ultramarines found a prophesy by the Emperor, describing an alien race with little psychic aptitude being instrumental in the destruction of Chaos, and assumed it was the Tau. There's no reason why it couldn't have been one of the hundreds of small Xenos empires and species already ground out of existence by the Imperium or its enemies. For all we know, the species the Emperor referred to has long since vanished down Hive Fleet Leviathan's gullet.

>> No.19458591

Remember that DE were even less significant before the new codex. They were the least numerous and were pretty much unable to do anything of significant scale. Many though they will get squatted.

>> No.19458598

My lord what about the Eldar then, shall we include them?

>> No.19458601

My Lord Omnisiah, does that mean we of the Martian brotherhood are to figure out what part of their pulse tech keeps their plasma from exploding In the xenos' faces?

>> No.19458619

You say that like you expect the plot to advance or something.

Tau have local superiority. They're strong enough in their own region of space to fight off the average WAAAGH or hive splinter, or even an Imperial Crusade. A concentrated push by any faction would wipe them out, but concentrated pushes don't happen in 40k aside from the Black Crusades. Add in that focusing on the Tau would leave whichever other faction did the attacking exposed, and you see why they're still around. There's simply no way to destroy them without compromising your position.

>> No.19458621


That's changed in the new codex. They aren't a dying race, as the Eldar are. GW makes it very clear the Eldar will go out. I don't seem to recall any such claim about the Dark Eldar. They seem to be doing quite well for themselves.

I'm not talking about product lines, if that's what you're refering to. I'm talking about in-universe. The Dark Eldar can retreat to the webway for a time if need be. The Tau are like little rats running about, confused and scared. They're fair game. At least the Dark Eldar know about the workings of the universe. The Tau know nothing.

>> No.19458625

Yes, freaking hell yes. Seriously Plasma weaponry used to be standard issue till you guys went all "OH HOLY MACHINES" in the m25s and forgot fucking everything!
The Eldar will come around once Chaos has been crushed. They always have.

>> No.19458628


Most of them were wiped out by Slanesh. If humanity orgies enough, Slanesh will become powerful enough to finish off the Eldar.

>> No.19458631

dispite one of the events depicted in firewarrior, being a single tau, killing thousands and them taking down a lord of change nearly singlehandedly.

>> No.19458639

> kill an Ethereal hopping to broke tau morale
> get to fight a Lord of Change instead

>> No.19458655

But you hear his words, my Emperor! He would have us all but enslaved to them!

>> No.19458662


"The hand of each of the great starfarers is turned against the other, none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper." -Farsight

Something in your post reminds me of Farsight...

>> No.19458678

I know. I was just saying that DE were a shitty faction, get a new dex and became a true faction. Tau could definitely take the same path.

>> No.19458692

that pratteling tau is just a loyal citizen to the empire he serves. His people will realize their place at humanities side, and you shall call him your brother.
remember aliens that can be reasoned with can be strong allies in this fight for survival

>> No.19458693

My lord, we figure out how to do this ages ago. Tau weapons use a small charge compared to our imperial plasma. However our scientists made a break through a few thousand years ago in making a new type of plasma weapons far above that of even the Eldar, which is called Neo-plasma.

>> No.19458711

He wasn't an Ethereal, he isn't in on the conspiracy.

>Implying the plots of the Lord of Change can be understood by mere mortals.

>> No.19458716

That sounds like a drugs you'd find in raves.

>> No.19458717

> Urien Rakarth toying with the young and dynamic Tau

An entire Cabal of bio-terror fiends managed to take advantage of the Tau and get them off guard then escaped before the Tau reinforcements arrived.

So what? This is probably the first real encounter with the Dark El'Dar. The Tau give everyone a chance, Peace is way of Tau.

The Dark El'Dar choose to maul the Tau hand of friendship and defined themselves as Be'gel, and thus from that day they will be hunted and exterminated whenever they appear in Tau space.

>The Tau don't have the tact nor the manpower to survive in the 40K universe

Yet they survived while beset by all sides by forces who seek their enslavement and destruction.

The Tau beat back whatever challenge thrown against them (Gorgon, Dagon, War of Dakka etc) and are expanding into Imperial space.

This shows that the Tau are a power to be reckoned with.

>The Imperium has tried several times to amass forces to destroy them

Reclamation efforts =/= Crusades of Genocide

The High Lords of the Imperium doubt they have the capability to destroy the Tau and even if such an undertaking is possible it will leave the Imperium a crippled mess afterwards.

The Tau are not an easy prey to shallow for the Imperium. The Imperium will have content itself with trying to reclaim what the Tau have taken from them.

>> No.19458722

The fuck? Are you from Ryza? Why didn't you tell more people?

>> No.19458724

You see sir we contain the plasma in a magnetic field prior to launch and start the fusion cascade, then fire the plasma out the gun before the reaction reaches critical this allows.

What was that? Did you hear that?

>> No.19458725

Wasn't xenology that implied that, xenology being an excellent example of an unreliable narrator (though isn't a blatant as say the Uplifting Infantry mans Primer). Still ethereals did arrive very mysteriously, show great control over the Tau, the warp storm that protected the Tau is very convenient. It seems likely there was meddling, but the question is who and why. Still have some warp presence, are naive, no psychic powers to battle daemons, and accept psychic races in their empire so are a poor anti-chaos weapon. Eldar and now necrons have predictive abilities, the deciever and tzeentch plan for the long term so it could be any of them.

>> No.19458739



>> No.19458744

>> No.19458761

None of you saw that.

Sorry for the disturbance your grace, a servitor was acting up again.

>> No.19458769

There is one planet in the Imperium that has been on a constant defensive war for 10,000 Imperial years. They have fought off forces you can't imagine. Against forces more powerful than any you have fought

This is ONE planet, and there are millions more.

Its not a matter of the Tau empire being unstoppable, its a matter of you being un-noticeable.

Never the less you will serve your purpose in Cadia soon enough

>> No.19458775

None of you saw a single thing, now remember that.

>> No.19458777

In old fluff, safe plasma was a small man with strong bone thing.
The mechanicum accidentally a whole world trying to reverse engineering the thing and never tried again.

>> No.19458794

The only race of eldar that are dying off are the craftworlders. The exodites and darkeldar are getting along just fine and always have. i like to think of the CW eldar as a incubator for the god of death who, when he is born, will kill slanesh then bitch slap the DE back into shape and resettle realspace with them. Lets not forget the laughing god's heart chilling in lady malyas. In the end the tua are small fry with huge potetial to fuck shit up when they grow bigger, but the plot will never advance so all of this is a moot point sadly.

>> No.19458795

Thnx for the catch Comissar, would you like to chastise the acolyte responsible for it's maintenance, or should I?

>> No.19458816


TIDF, every time I see one of your posts I think of this lovely picture. Imagine you're the Tau in the Ultramarines grip.

>> No.19458824

I already took care of it.

No need to look around in this foundry.

Also if you hear a loud bang, that was on purpose, we're building a new generator facility on this very large section on the planet.

>> No.19458827

Oooooh, that place Leviathan ate. Okay, we'll get on the horn with Ryza, it's time for plasma and SCIENCE!

>> No.19458839

I will serve you well by pulling the PLUG on you, Gue'la.

Of all the Children of the Stars, which race has a great destiny ahead of them?

Only one who the darkness holds no sway. Chosen by fate to lead all to the bright future.

That race is the Tau. No other explanations are permitted!

>> No.19458870

Yep, Leviathan ate a whole race and empire without anyone noticing, including colonies and mercenaries all over the universe, on imperial worlds and armies.
That or racial simultaneous heart attack.

>> No.19458876

Can you please provide your contact information? We need to send servitors with the mur - i mean along with the dimplomats! Yeah, diplomats

>> No.19458877

>Pull plug on Emperor
>Usher in age of chaos and doom of the Galaxy
>Ethereals strip themselves of the flesh, regaining their true form as lords of change
>All other Tau are consumed by Chaos
>you lose, bad ending
>Play again?

>> No.19458893

That heart attack theory is just silly! Everyone knows it was Leviathan or racial liver failure.

>> No.19458914

>which race has a great destiny ahead of them?

None of them. This is 40k. You don't get great destinies. You get hollow prophesies, empty words, and dust and ash on the wind.

>> No.19458927

Liver failure ? they couldn't drink enough ?
> your whole race die because not enough booze

>> No.19458968

Necron Triarch Stalker
Wraith Lord
are two prime examples of superior walkers, both in fluff and gameplay.

>> No.19458972

No, their livers gave out from drinking to much. I may have misused 'failure' when 'poisoning' would have been a better descriptor. An average of three agriworlds worth of grain products has been redirected to food from beer production ever since then.

>> No.19458977

The Tau don't HAVE Combat Walkers, they're all just power-armored infantry with really big, clunky armor, or have you not you noticed that Crisis armor is inferior to Terminator Armor in terms of actual protection?

Wraithlord, that's a better case, but a wraithlord will kick the balls out of anything the Tau can come up with in melee, because it's possessed by immortal warrior ghosts or something, whereas the Tau are incompetent in melee to begin with, and don't get any better when they're lashed into a retarded flying robot suit.

>> No.19458997

It isn't power armour, it is canonically piloted, not worn.

>> No.19458998


The best prophecy one could hope for in 40k is that all the other races kill each other off before they kill yours off.

>> No.19459229

No rule: No TIDF in any Tau thread.

>> No.19459246

As I said.

The Imperials give the Emperor the credit for everything.

Why does the sun rise everyday? The Emperor. Why are Orks green? The Emperor. What keeps reality from imploding? The Emperor.

Why do I have this head shattering headache? THE EMPEROR! HE DID AND DOES EVERYTHING.....EVER!

I do not handle diplomatic duties. Mostly I just get drunk and use this terminal to engage the Imperials in pointless debates.

And each time I see Imperial posts, I think of this.

Poor deluded clueless Gue'la...

> and there are millions more.

By the right of the Great Destiny of T'au, they all belong to our Empire.

>its a matter of you being un-noticeable.

Perhaps after all the Eastern Fringes fall under our banner you will notice us, Gue'la?

>You get hollow prophesies, empty words, and dust and ash on the wind.

All are hollow lies and falsehoods save for that one promise on earth of Fio'taun and words of Aun'Va.

A promise that remained true for six thousand years. It is no mere words of prophesy!

No, It is the one single truth that makes any sense in this galaxy.

>> No.19459250

So my grasp on the nuances of the IG Codex is weak, but it is pretty funny that the most common uses of those Few Hard Bastards is on suicide anti-armor runs.

>> No.19459416

You'll get noticed looooong before then, tau. Probably a month after you take over a paradise world or whatever they're designated and some ranking politician throws a bitch fit and calls for a crusade. Then, it's just sheer numbers and time. The amount of men and material is going to be stupidly large, and I'm going to have to help the various regimental heads play nice, and eldar are going to get involved. Ah well. At least you bastards can actually think enough to talk, I usually have to deal with orks out here. And by deal with I mean apply welder mechadendrite to ork face.

>> No.19459455

Not if you're an Ork. Orkz are already the victors of 40K.

>In the grim darkness of the 41st millenium, there is only war
>there is only war

>> No.19459491

>The Tau have superior combat walkers when compared to any other race in 40k, even the Eldar.
False. the crisis suits aren't walkers.

>A crisis battlesuit equipped with some form of melee weapon could easily topple a dreadnought or a wraithlord, if only due to superior mobility
>Tau wrecking shit in close combat. Laughingwhores.jpg

>> No.19459497

Hey TIDF, how does it feel to know that Cato Sicarius like twenty of his friends blunted the entirety of your illegal crusade into Zeist?

I mean, when a Cardinal and his drinking buddies launched the Damocles crusade, it took the entire Tau Empire to fight them to a standstill. Does this mean that Cato Sicarius is more masculine than your entire Empire?

>> No.19459514

>Highly mobile ranged focused armies
Hmm, almost makes me want to try 40K.

What would be the investment to get a minimal Tau army? Is 500 points the size to start with?

>> No.19459614

And now, the opposite!

>Why are Tau so great?
The Ethereals!

>Who keeps the Tyranids from eating everyone?
The Ethereals!

>Who keeps the universe from imploding?
The Ethereals!

Hypocrisy shouldn't suit you TIDF, but it does. It does so well.

>> No.19459662

Because it amuses me to no end.

HUGE Tau loves you, TIDF.

and I do a bit too. B-but that doesn't mean that I l-like you or a-anything!! B-baka!

>> No.19459683

Well, that second one is semi valid. The Ethreals do keep them from killing and eating each other, and records indicate the tau have not, as a species, eaten other sentient lifeforms. Partially because kroot ate them first. Not sure what Vespid eat, now that I think of it.

>> No.19459701

amazing, in the midst of never ending hate toward the Tau and TIDF being a pompous insufferable asshat you are considering starting a Tau army? good for you, just don't let yourself become one of those people that gives us regular Tau players a bad reputation. for 500 points you will need 1 battlesuit commander, 1 firewarrior squad, that takes care of the base line requirements you should probably get either a second firewarrior squad or kroot and a few crisis suits. depending on where you buy from that alone will cost about $150 plus paints and codex.

>> No.19459705

>mfw everyone arguing over tau
i wanted people to talk about them..,. but not like this..

>> No.19459713

Dammit, misread Tyranids as tau. Disregard that.

>> No.19459733

Well, not that poster.

But it is YOUR hobby after all. Hell, I just started a tau army too, and I'm rolling Imperial Guard as my first.

I just love how they look and play. I'd say to just stop caring about what others think, and just hope the others respect your army choice.

>> No.19459734

Welcome to /tg/. We have a whole archive of things we've argued over

>> No.19459762

Like coasters. Especially coasters.

>> No.19459794

Any religion is allowed.
Hey, VOTOMS are about that height and they're for humans

>> No.19459796

Well I know I don't want a melee focused army, because that just seems boring to me.

I like much of the IG's tactics of gunlines and artillery, but I'm not big on their primitiveness.

Harassing infantry that the enemy can't quite charge into backed up by big things and explosions is my tactical goal.

>> No.19459799

And remember the time where we did the math on how many spiders could fit in a drow's vagina of all things?

>> No.19459809

this is the inevitability of every Tau thread. Sure it'll start off nice and civil but then somebody will see it and post something like "every tau player has his head stuck up his ass about the greater good." and then someone (usually TIDF) replies "none can stand against the greater good!" and then it becomes a contest of who can post the most bullshit to support their side of the argument.

>> No.19459844

Tau are technological without being mystic (eldar) or roid-rage Spees Marines and their Starship-Troopers:The Movie ally-fodder.

>> No.19459848

>Who keeps the Tyranids from eating everyone?
>Who keeps the universe from imploding?

The Ethereals and rest of tau never claimed such.

However they are working to prevent these things from happening.

>Why are Tau so great?
>The Ethereals!

Yes, but not only that. What makes the Tau great is that they are striving to solve the galaxy's dilemmas and unite all in a common purpose.

This great quest was inspired by the guidance of the Ethereals. It is when their right to claim credit for the superiority of the Greater Good (Over all other false doctrines. I am looking at you Imperial Creed) and glory of Tau Empire.

>Hypocrisy shouldn't suit you TIDF

Of course it is the dress of the Imperial not mine.

>Hey TIDF, how does it feel to know that Cato Sicarius like twenty of his friends blunted the entirety of your illegal crusade into Zeist?

It was a massive Coalition of Space Marine chapters that smashed into the Third Sphere Expansion.

Though it pushed the Tau back, it was an exercise in futility.

The worlds the Space Marines robbed from the Tau Empire in the Zeist were returned later to the rightful rule of the Tau.

>At least you bastards can actually think enough to talk

Sadly, you imbeciles are too stupid to actually listen.

It pains me that all of this mess could have been averted if the Imperials just came to us and talked things over like civilized species.

>> No.19459888

See, the problem here is that your idea is fundamentally unstable. You propose that through mind control and a forceful imposal of your will upon all life you can restrain, defeat, and control concepts you do not understand. You are much akin to a child who insists on sitting at the adult's table in a large feast.

>> No.19459937

As if Tau fans are any less annoying than any other pre-teen or neckbeard. I want to play a game, not get shouted at.

>> No.19459951

TIDF, you realize that all the hate for Tau here stems from you? I thought you were a troll at first, but anyone who spends the amount of time you do here can't be. You must be really fucked up.

Oh, and the Zeist worlds were never reclaimed by the Tau by the way. Sicarius was going to rip further Tau worlds away from you, but was redeployed to face the nids instead. You know, because you guys are so insignificant in comparison.

>> No.19459957

. . . !

>> No.19459962

Are you even remotely familiar with TIDF?

>> No.19459965

I seem to have forgotten:
Almost a direct quote, btw.

>> No.19459966


>> No.19459974

The major flaw with your greater good is that you did not account for us being selfish pricks with a large percentage of proud, insufferable bastards in the position to say what's good and whats bad.

>> No.19459997

Now that shit's annoying.

>> No.19460022


It's all in good fun bro. Jesus Christ, you know that when people are typing 'For the Emperor' in all caps, they don't actually mean it, right? You do realize that this is a game, and that people are just messing around with each other?

Or has this thread finally reached the no fun zone? Did 40K suddenly become a gentlemanly duel full of sophistication?

>> No.19460054

As the guy above me explained to eloquently, I don't think anyone does that seriously. You idiot. Then you have TIDF, who does that kind of thing seriously on a regular basis, causing much Tau hate.

>> No.19460059

I don't know about you, but Im trying to fing my pic of the comic where kharn becomes president to support my earlier post about humanity.

>> No.19460166

Uh, no. It happened at GW.

>> No.19460204

>You propose that through mind control and a forceful imposal of your will upon all life you can restrain, defeat, and control concepts you do not understand.

No mind control. No forceful anything.

The Tau seek to uplift the other races through wise council and suggestion. Doing away with their imperfections and molding them as productive citizens of the Empire.

This is done by showing them the benefits of Tau'va and teaching them its merits, rather than shoving it down their throats.

>control concepts you do not understand.

There are two concepts that matter.

Tau'va ( To be followed and obeyed).

Be'gel ( To be opposed and destroyed).

Understand them and all will be well.

> I thought you were a troll at first, but anyone who spends the amount of time you do here can't be.

I was screaming this from the moment I started. I am glad somebody finally believed me.

> Zeist worlds were never reclaimed by the Tau by the way.

-Third Sphere Expansion starts. 997-998
-As response the Zeist Campaign is called and it pushes back the Tau. 999
-Marines withdraw to engage in a far greater conflict leaving the retaken worlds poorly defended. 999
-The Tau resume their expansion and reclaim what the Imperium has robbed from them and expand further into Imperial space establishing colonies on the borders . 999

First, you want to bar me from other 40K threads and now you want to ban me from my own faction's threads?

What could I have done to deserve to be banished from your midst?



At least she is not as obnoxious as that Nonperson.

>> No.19460236

You only showcase your ignorance and your arrogance. Your fall will be hard, relatively speaking of course, and serve as a moment's amusement.

>> No.19460284

I don't think that anyone legitimately hates another race to the point of what I believe to be exaggerated in these threads.

To be honest, I like it. People are going well and it's fun to see others in character and what-not.

Others may just cry troll and hurl insults back and forth, but hell, it's good content in its own way.

>> No.19460291

Typical Imperial bahavior...

If I am ignorant, then enlighten me.

If I am arrogant, then humble me.

Or are you powerless to do anything expect issue insults and threats?

>> No.19460306

Having other 40k players derail discussion with DATS HERESY XDDD wasn't fun the first time, nor the hundreds of times after. It's even more grating when half the Imperial players at my LGS have decided they can make real-life discussions funny by spouting it constantly.

>> No.19460325

>There are two concepts that matter.
There are forces and entities at work in this galaxy that are well beyond your understanding. If you think your empire, already flawed in its bases, have any hope of defeating something it is apparently incapable of comprehending, you are doomed already. Furthermore, the only thing keeping you afloat and alive, the machinery you incapsulate your warriors in, send alongside, is a cautious thing you trust more than you should.

>> No.19460332

Show me a single credible source that states that the worlds were retaken.

>> No.19461555

Sure has been a while...

>> No.19461591

May as well set the record straight to make tau players look better. (Though I'm IG as well.)

Unfortunately, though the Space Marines had won the war, it was not possible to sanction a thrust into Tau held space as the individual Space Marine forces were required elsewhere in the galaxy and it was only reluctantly that Sicarius gave control of the defence back to the planetary governors.1

Yes, there is no mention of the Tau obtaining the worlds back. But to be fair, the Tau had to fight TEN chapters (Not the full chapters, mind you) of space marines.

Must have been some badassery going on on both sides.

>> No.19461667

I am sorry for being late.

This terminal suffered some issues. Here is your proof.

After the withdrawal of the Space Marines to fight in the black Crusade, the Tau expanded unopposed.

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