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[ERROR] No.19346202 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Sup, /tg/

I'm looking to make my second army now (First one was IG) and I decided I wanted something really different. So, I thought I'd pick Space Wolves, since they're a bit more assault oriented, they have some really good psykers (Not to rag on Sanctioned Psykers... I heard they're a bucket and a half of pieplate spamman.) and you know... I'll actually get to use my armor saves.

So, I was wondering what's the generalities on most SW armies these days? What works well, what doesn't? I'm thinking I'll take a rune priest as my HQ. Also, pros/cons of Grey Hunters over Blood Claws?

Thanks.

>> No.19346757

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Wolves

>> No.19346811

Space Wolves are actually known for being one of the aggresive midfield armies with capability to run MSU(multiple small unit), Mech(to some extent) or Foot lists

They aren't assault oriented but they aren't slouches when it comes to assault. Counter-charge means that they're absolutly fine with being charged, and TWC(Thunderwolf Cavalry) provide excellent counter charge units. In terms of an assault army though, they have many things lacking. Some examples being high i values, higher WS values, more than 1 attack each. They have decent torrent units (not counting Blood Claws because they're shit).

Overall though, they aren't an assault based army. For that you'll want something like Orks(Battlewagon Rush), Dark Eldar or Tyranids.

>> No.19346820

>>19346811
Or Black Templars. Assault is their bread and butter.

>> No.19346911

>>19346811

This. You should never aim to be the one assaulting with Space Wolves. Set up a strong firing position, open up on priority targets and let them come to you. As that anon said, you're not afraid of assault, thank's to Counterattack. You'll hold , in time for your dedicated counter-assault units to come in and clean up.

For those purposes, I use Thunderwolf cavalry or ground-pounding termies. My termies are actually kitted for shooting as well though, so they not entirely useless at their job. My FLGS also has a lot of high terrain, so I can get away with footslogging it. Thunderwolf cavalry are generally a better bet. An Iron priest on a thunderwolf and cyber wolves is a cool and fun alternative.

>>19346202

Generally speaking, you'll want at least 2-4 units of Grey Hunters in mechs, along with 1 of Long Fangs. Long Fangs are SO GODDAMN GOOD. Get some.

A rune priest is a solid call. Don't get too hung up on the offensive powers either, Storm Caller wins games.

As to Blood Claws, they lack options that let them maximize their effectiveness. The only useful thing I ever got out of them was double flamers and a Wolf Lord with Saga of the Warrior Born to clear out hordes and even then they were dubious. Had they stuck to the idea of giving them 2 power weapon options to mirror Grey Hunters 2 special weapon options, they would be more useful. As it stands, not worth it. Anything they can do, Grey Hunters can do better.

>> No.19346918

>>19346820

Really? But, are black templars all that playable at the moment? I've heard their codex is ridiculously outdated...

>>19346811
Hm, well, aren't Nids one of the weaker armies currently? I'm not one of those people who ONLY builds tournament builds (In fact, most people would look at my guard list and puke because it isn't all meltas and chimeras) but I would like my army to be good...

I'm really open to suggestions, though, nothing is set in stone... What are the pros and cons of each...?
In return, I shall supply 40k art.

>> No.19346937

rolled 20 = 20

>>19346918
BT are playable. And a lot of fun. In games above 750, you get THREE HQ's. Plus LRC's, LRC's everywhere!

>> No.19346992

>>19346918

>Black Templars
While outdated, they do have some solid choices. They have oldschool Drop Pods which makes them immensely better at Pod lists then current Vanilla Marines. In addition, they get the Emperor's Champion, who's pretty cool guy, which let's you get a Vow. Accept Any Challenge is a good one as it gives Preferred Enemy(Your Enemy) but you always have to charge them. They run into some issues once you deviate outside their Elites and Troops though. their fast attacks are nothing special really (their assault marines can get Storm Shields though), and Heavy Support is about the same as Vanilla dex, only slightly more expensive. As a whole though, the dex still holds up to current rules as they recently got an errata that updated some things to 5th.

>Tyranids
Tyranids are actually quite legit in the current scene. The issues they face aren't really that their units are weak. It's that they're currently constrained to a few builds for competitiveness. Plus MC rules currently kinda screw them over. It's easy to over invest in them. But they also have some of the best Assault units in the game. Tyranid Warriors with Bonesword(Force Weapon) & Lash Whips(Your opponent is i1) with Poison Sacs (gives all their melee Poisoned(4+)) combined with WS 5 will wipe anything off the table. Their Elites is where all their Anti-tank is(Hive Guard, Zoans).

The issue they really have is busting mech at range. The best they have are Zoans with their S10 AP1 Lances. but they compete with Hive Guard with their S8, AP4 Assault 2 guns that don't need LoS and don't allow cover(most of the time)

>> No.19347041

>>19346918

>Orks

If there's any codex that can be considered the weakest in 5th, it's this one. They're relegated to a few very specific builds and half the choices in the dex are absolute trash (Trukks, Tankbustas, Weirdboy, Flash Gitz, etc,etc). They recently got a buff with the new Aircraft released in the White Dwarf that gives them the Dakkajet. But other then that.

Battlewagon Rush is a build that basically takes 4-7 Battlewagons, loads them up with boyz, then Tank Shocks all the things with Deffrollas.

>Dark Eldar
The name of the game for these guys is "Glass Cannons". They are amazingly offensive, but generally can't take a hit back. But great and killing you so you don't hit back, with a few exceptions (Wyches, Grotesques). Has many good builds, fast as shit and with more Lances then you can shake a stick at. Can do Assault very well thanks to Open Topped transports. Often choices will include Incubi, Wyches, Beastmasters and Talos.

>> No.19347057

>>19346911
Thanks for the good advice! I do like the idea of a midfield kind of park 'n' bark army...

I've never been too big on METAHL BAWKSES but, I think if I were running and SM army, I'd kind of need them.

So, as far as troop choices go, Grey Hunters definitely seem to be favored heavily over Blood Claws.

All the Rune Priest powers seem amazing. Is there any benefit of choosing Njal over a normal Rune Priest, though?

And Long Fangs would likely fill up my HS slots... The ability to split fire at separate targets is just incredible.

>>19346937
Really, now? How do they manage that? The only time I've come up against BT was when some local kid brought in them, and he only was using tactical squads with bolters and an emperors champion... Which I thought was odd, given the fact everything I'd heard about BT pointed to them being an assault army...

>> No.19347121

>>19347057

The fact that Njal costs like, 275 points or something like that. He has some neat other effects though, but generally too expensive over a normal Rune Priest.

Black Templars have a few rules to help them out as an assault army.

a) Preferred Enemy for everyone.
b) They run at you when you shoot them (no seriously, they do)
c) Their Termies can get Furious Charge or Tank Hunters.
d) Their heavy weapons are extremely limited. Lascannons are the choice for ranged anti-tank. Missiles for duality.
e) Their basic guys can take Bolt Pistols plus CCW. Combined with Preferred Enemy means you're torrenting a LOT. But sadly they tend to lack duality due having both Bolters and BP+CCW. Only one or the other.

>> No.19347161

>>19347041

>If there's any codex that can be considered the weakest in 5th, it's this one.

Tau called. They want their title back.

Trukks are awesome. What's that son? 18 inch movement and open topped? Hell yeah! Load up that fucker with 11 boyz + pk nob and go party. Shit, go all the way, get 4 of those fuckers and then 2 battlewagons with 19 boyz + pk nobz. Watch your enemy shit themselves as they see this screaming deathball of awesome roll over them. What's that? You're worried that they'll all get destroyed when the enemy starts shooting @ them? That's the idea son. These fuckers explode and they boyz are just laughing at the poor sod who got hit in the head with the engine. Next turn they crawl out of the craters and WAAAAGH your enemy (who has nowhere left to run) all while cheering in their cockney accent. Now tell me this isn't awesome!

>> No.19347212

>>19347161
Tau are actually quite at home in 5th. They live in a ranged combat world and assuming you don't just let your opponent slowly crawl up to you, you can just block their advance with Pirahnas, and the Kroot form their defensive bubblewrap.


as for Trukks, have you not read the Ramshackle rule?
a) 1/3 chance of it being destroyed, leaving nothing behind and forcing a pinning check (No craters are left behind, no wreckage from the Trukk is left behind, you are not completly open to being shot the fuck out of with no Cover Save)
b) 1/3 of the time to scatter away from your opponent then apply a
c) 1/3 of the time for it to be destroyed as normal, only HOLY SHIT! No wreckage left behind and no crators as well. I sure hope your 12 guys can survive a round of shooting when they're just sitting there in the open.

And lastly, Trukks are Troop Capacity 12. You do not have the numbers that the Ork statline requires for you to actually do assault "well". Combined with your absolute lack of any defenses, and that you're iniative fucking 2, you're dying before you even get to attack.

>> No.19347234

(OP Here)
>>19346992
From what you're saying, BT does sound pretty awesome. And the models and bitz you can get for them look really damn cool, too. (And let's face it, that's a part of everyone's decision.) Definitely considering them, now.
Nids seem nice, but, I've heard that any sort of anti-horde messes them up really bad... But the MCs also seem tough and draw a lot of fire. It seems pretty cool how the two approaches to handling them (Cleaning up the hordes, then the MCs or cleaning up the MCs then the hordes) seems to supply an advantage to the nids either way... Also when I played them, venomthropes seemed ridiculous. Are they?
>>19347041
I actually bought the ork codex first, because I was young and foolish (in other words, had just started playing and only had the BR box, and my brother took the space marine half.) and thought they seemed cool... But then when I actually played them and found out their t-shirt armor saves are so awful, I wept a bit... Cover hugging and meching seems to be the only possible way to do Orks, which seems boring to me. And lootas in the back. Plus the lack of any s9 weapons seems dumb.. No meltas either, which seem to be essential in 5th ed...
DEldar seem pretty cool... A friend offered me an army case, a mega force, a Lilith, a set of wyches, and some Incubi... All for like, 300... Which seemed pretty good, to me... Might see if he'd still do that, lol.
Also, as a side note, how do Salamanders run? They seem pretty popular from what I've read but I've never seen one actually run at my FLGS...

>> No.19347250

>>19347121
So, just run a rune priest then, got it... Probably in termie armor to keep him alive, yeah? Also, any ways to get FNP in space wolves...?
>>19347161
From personal experience, I hate tau railguns, but, that's just because they pop my Leman Russ's like bubblewrap.
But holy fuck, that does sound fun... Orks are going on the list of considered armies.

>> No.19347262

>>19347212
Where did you get the no wreckage/crater left? There's no crater from explosion if you're too lazy to make craters. Wrecked is a trukk destroyed lying where it got destroyed. As for result 3-4, it can be even more awesome since you can get even closer to your enemy. Check out miniwargaming Dans WAAAAGH batreps.

>> No.19348012

>>19347234

Venomthropes are good in specific cases. MC spam as it's hard to get MCs a cover save, while also giving your front line gants a cover save. But they're really only as good as the things near them. Plus they occupy Elites, which makes it compete against Zoans and Hive Guard(yes, both are really just that good)

>Salamanders
While Space Wolves tend to operate in the 24'' range, Salamanders operate in the 12'' range. Twin linked Meltas and Flamers makes them frightenly effective up close, but because they're up close, they need some kind of counter-charge unit. Luckily, Vulkan is pretty good in assault, as are Assault Termies with Thunder Hammers (which are MAster crafted, reroll a single failed roll to hit). They run a bit more up close and personal, but again. They are not meant for melee whatsoever.


>>19347262

the FAQ
Q: If I roll a Kaboom! result on the Ramshackle table, is
the Trukk removed and replaced with a similar sized
area of difficult terrain after any surviving passengers
have disembarked? (p41)
A: Yes

So, you are correct about craters. And it had been awhile since I looked at the chart. on a 5-6 you get a wreck.

So, to re-summerize:
1-2: Remove Trukk, add crators, take a pinning check
3-4: Scatter, it's random, chances are just as likely you'll fly away from your opponent than towards them. Apply 1-2 result.
5-6: Normal wrecked effect.

Now comes the issue with your argument. Quoting from the rules:
"If a Trukk suffers more than one Vehicle Destroyed! or Vehicle Explodes! result, roll one dice per result on the Ramshackle chart, but only apply the lowest result"

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