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19036301 No.19036301 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Sexual objectification: Is it a real and pervasive problem in role playing games?

Is the idea that a female character's Charisma stat is usually related to her looks while a male's is usually related to his force of personality a common one?

/tg/ loves "sensible" female armor. Is that armor meant to protect her life or simply her modesty? Is the armor's purpose to preserve her health or her looks? Is the obsession with heavy armor actually an obsession with defeminization of a female character?

Are those who rage at breasts on a breastplate sticklers for historic accuracy or feminists (or male apologists)? Are those who prefer skimpier or more feminine clothing/armor misogynists or sluts?

In a world of magic, high-science or other fantastical things, does a bare midriff or heeled boots cross the line into obscenity?

>> No.19036345
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19036345

>In a world of magic, high-science or other fantastical things, does a bare midriff or heeled boots cross the line into obscenity?

Well in medieval Europe, it usually did, and so it's not surprising that players in the medieval Europe mindset might think the same way.

Also consider Joan of Arc; in "medieval-era" fantasy, war is a man's job - and you dress the part if you're going to do the job.

>> No.19036354

>in order
Somewhat.
No. Male charisma is typically treated as appearance too.
Life.
Health.
Neither.
A little of each and some who are neither.
No, unless they are. Correlation is not causation.
No.

Now watch as this thread hits 300+ posts.

>> No.19036355

I don't understand sexism at all. Men and women are biologically different. Should we try and hold each of them to the same standards or should we make provisions for each based upon their gender?

>> No.19036367

Sexual objectification is an overarching social problem, on multiple layers.

It just happens to seep into role-playing games because those who play them are part of that culture.

It's more of a bad thing than a good thing, but it's not just one or the other. It simply should be lessened.

>> No.19036368
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19036368

disgonbgud

>> No.19036387

>>19036345
>Using a 19th century painting to illustrate anything medieval

>> No.19036390

>>19036301
I always assumed charisma of males would be the same for females.
As a guy with 18 your an adonis or are fucking persuasive or both.
A girl your beautiful or can bend any person to your will.

>> No.19036421

In most games I think the only time you'd get this is with npcs. Also possibly if a girl is playing. Though it
s strange to see a guy play a girl sometimes/

>> No.19036422

Yo. Listen. Conan the Barbaian. Sexual objectification... of a man.

I think we've already gone too far into PC territory by allowing female characters to be highly physical characters. In a perfect world there wouldn't be female armour because women wouldn't wear armour.

>> No.19036427
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19036427

>>19036355
You seem to be misinterpreting sexism.
Men and women are different, but there's two inherent flaws in approaching it simply like that:

>1
How exactly would you define male and female? Although XX and XY chromosome are best bet, it isn't that simple. Physical gender is a huge variety. You can see this in simply feminine men or masculine women.
So, you are right, men and women are different. However, technically everybody is different.
Simply having the correct reproductive organs does not dictate your hormonal levels as accurately as some might claim, and in consequence your behavior to some degree.

>2
Even if people are different, that doesn't mean that everybody should have basic rights.
Although certain things should be situational, when it comes to the treatment of people, it should be same.
Keyword there, treatment.
A woman shouldn't be called a slut just because she wears spaghetti straps just as a man shouldn't be called a loser just because he engages in a certain hobby.

That's my take, anyway.

>> No.19036442

>>19036390
But one almost never assumes that a woman with a high Charisma is anything but beautiful where as a man with a high Charisma can be assumed to be anything from a statuesque model to a scary ruffian to a successful politician.

>> No.19036454
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19036454

>>19036368
Real good

>> No.19036465

>>19036442
Imagine an ugly women with charisma. The only thing I can think of is babooshka with a rollingpin.

>> No.19036476
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19036476

>Guaranteed replies

>> No.19036523

>>19036465If you read the books for DnD even if you read the old ones. It says charisma applies to looks and persuasion.

>> No.19036539

I think I hear something coming...

>> No.19036573

>>19036442
Maybe these are your own sexist tendencies. It is pretty much explicitly defined as either, gender neutral.

>>19036355
This may be true, but are you really saying anything? If they are different then we'd ideally want to know what to what degree, and what degree it's related to physiology versus external pressures. I will hazard to say that most gender discrimination past and present is irrespective of any sort of objectivity.

>> No.19036581

>>19036539
rape train has no brakes.

>> No.19036588

>>19036465
Baba Yaga or the old witch in rag ? She speak, you listen, even if she's ugly. That's high charisma for you.

The somewhat tomboy that exude energy ? She speak, you listen. That's high charisma for you.

The disgruntled old female veteran that have more scars that every other men in his platoon together ? She speak, you listen. That's high charisma for you.

Charisma is not beauty. See Nymph and their mild charisma score. The only good things to be out of the Book of Erotic Fantasy is the introduction of the Beauty secondary trait if you really want to quantify the beauty of your character.

>> No.19036602
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19036602

THERE IT IS

>> No.19036616

/tg/ likes sensible armour because our idea of a real woman is the Maid of Tarth.

>> No.19036620
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>> No.19036631
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>> No.19036656
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>> No.19036665
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>> No.19036685
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>> No.19036694
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>> No.19036718
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That should do it

>> No.19036801

an Alternate Career named "Agent of the Lords Dragon"
how can this not be awesome?

>> No.19037181

>>19036355
>I don't understand sexism at all.
Baby boys cry more frequently than baby girls. Parents come to the aid of baby girls more readily than baby boys. That's sexism.

>Men and women are biologically different. Should we try and hold each of them to the same standards or should we make provisions for each based upon their gender?
That depends. If "holding to the same standards" means expecting women to use urinals, obviously we should. If it means having different standards for male and female firefighters, obviously we shouldn't.

>> No.19037241

>Is it a real and pervasive problem in role playing games?
Depends on the group

>Is the idea that a female character's Charisma stat is usually related to her looks while a male's is usually related to his force of personality a common one?
It can go either way, depends on who plays them/how you play them

>Is that armor meant to protect her life or simply her modesty?
Life
>Is the armor's purpose to preserve her health or her looks?
Health first, though if it protects health it should also protect looks
>Is the obsession with heavy armor actually an obsession with defeminization of a female character?
No, I(at least) think bikini armour is retarded and only has a place if protection isn't the only goal (ala gladiators, they need to know it's there champion in that suit)

>Are those who rage at breasts on a breastplate sticklers for historic accuracy or feminists (or male apologists)?
Not particularly, if they have breasts on the breastplate it's not the worst thing, and at least they're covered
>Are those who prefer skimpier or more feminine clothing/armor misogynists or sluts?
Don't know

>In a world of magic, high-science or other fantastical things, does a bare midriff or heeled boots cross the line into obscenity?
But you have so many organs in your midriff, and how can you fight in heels on uneven terrain

>> No.19037324
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19037324

>>19036422
>Yo. Listen. Conan the Barbaian. Sexual objectification... of a man.

If we analyze the usual graphical elements in cheescake Illustrations and try to match them with male characters... then it turns out that Spider Man is the only real victim of objectifications.

Just check for yourself. Dude constantly gets his spine fractured by artists in order to show off his butt and chest at the same time.

>> No.19037456
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19037456

>Sexual objectification: Is it a real and pervasive problem in role playing games?

If you're a whiner everything's a problem. It's mostly a nuisance otherwise. If the objectification's getting out of hand it's usually just a mark of bad storytelling and/or presentation, which means the whole thing is a pile of crap and to be discarded anyway.

>Is the idea that a female character's Charisma stat is usually related to her looks while a male's is usually related to his force of personality a common one?

No. Not in people over 14 years of age.

>/tg/ loves "sensible" female armor. Is that armor meant to protect her life or simply her modesty?

Neither. Believability is a value in on itself. Fuck modesty and fuck PC's life. You can reroll a character, I don't give a rat's ass if your's dies.

> Is the obsession with heavy armor actually an obsession with defeminization of a female character?

I bet some feminists like to think so. Because that way they can whine in both cases.

There's no point in defeminizing, if you can just replace the woman with a man and be done with it. Armor, like any concealing outfit can be used for desexualization - which can be a tool for good character presentation.

>Are those who rage at breasts on a breastplate sticklers for historic accuracy or feminists (or male apologists)?

How is that all mens' fault suddenly? Everybody pushing that idea should die painfully.

It's mostly a bunch of spastic consumers going through puberty and spineless artists doing fan service.

I don't like boobplates, but I don't like feminists even more, fancy that.

>> No.19037459

>>19037456

>Are those who prefer skimpier or more feminine clothing/armor misogynists or sluts?

"Sluts"? HOW did you come to that idea?

Why would misogyny affect what you want from a game at this level? You either want at least specks of realism or over the top surreal crap. Misognists don't automatically acquire some sort of insatiable urge to objectify, they just hate women. Kind of like inverted feminists, just without university grants.

>In a world of magic, high-science or other fantastical things, does a bare midriff or heeled boots cross the line into obscenity?

First of all, how DARE you imply you or we or anybody have the right to tell OTHER PEOPLE if they can have obscenity in their entertainment. Maybe they want to play in Gigerverse, fuck you if you'll try to stop them.

Secondly, it's largely subjective (just another reason not to butt into other peoples' shit), but almost always no.

>> No.19037561

Sexual objectification is where someone relates to a person solely on a sexual level, ignoring every other aspect of the person.

Dressing like a slut, having a body that adheres to male sexual ideals, and sucking every dick you come across isn't.

>> No.19037566

>>Sexual objectification: Is it a real and pervasive problem in role playing games?
NO! It is only a problem if you deliberately make it a problem. Sexual objectification has been around since the dawn of history!

>>Is the idea that a female character's Charisma stat is usually related to her looks while a male's is usually related to his force of personality a common one?
No! Charisma is neither physical beauty nor force of personality. Charisma is knowledge about how well one can deal with other people.

>>tg/ loves "sensible" female armor. Is that armor meant to protect her life or simply her modesty? Is the armor's purpose to preserve her health or her looks? Is the obsession with heavy armor actually an obsession with defeminization of a female character?
Because I am an artfag for female armor I am pretty easy. The best I like a middle ground between practical and stylized but fully practical is fine too as long as the wearer doesn't have a manface. But it also depends on what the person is supposed to be. I do not like chainmail bikinis, boobplates that obviously covers only the modesty zones. To me the word offense is HIGH HEELED ARMOR!!

>>Are those who rage at breasts on a breastplate sticklers for historic accuracy or feminists (or male apologists)? Are those who prefer skimpier or more feminine clothing/armor misogynists or sluts?
I don't know but claiming either would be gross generalization. Clothes and armor offer more than just protection, it gives a person an idenity. It gives you a picture about him/her, a message. How one interprets and reacts to it is up to personal preference.

>> No.19037585

>>19037566
>In a world of magic, high-science or other fantastical things, does a bare midriff or heeled boots cross the line into obscenity?
In a world of "IT'S MAGIC I AIN'T GOTTA EXPLAIN SHIT!" neither should matter at all because our understanding about the laws and workings of real life no longer apply and thus the unreal can become real, the wrong can become right. Some people may find it extremely difficult to accept this but this is also up to personal preference. Heck just a few 100 years our ago our idea of proper clothing was different.

Personally I really do not like high heels because I saw in real life how bad it can be and I do not associate it with women being more attractive to me, and in real life it is also no practical at all. A bare-midriff I can find attractive especially if the person has some abs but I find it better if some well made armor because I like good looking armor covers it because I can imagine the abs under it. It *could* be practical in a sense that it makes it easier to move. However I would prefer it covered.

>> No.19038106

Why do people still get upset over these things?
Why do I still get trolled into these threads? :(

Also: I love sexy armor. Sexy is not limited to skimpy. Some really concealing pieces still look very very nice.

>> No.19038227

>>19038106
It's not being trolled if you're not mad.

>Some really concealing pieces still look very very nice.
Have any examples?

>> No.19038418
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19038418

Somewhere, buried in all the skimpy armor pics.

>> No.19039523

I've been away from /tg/ for 6 months and these threads are still around? What a shithole.

>> No.19039606

>>19036301 Is the armor's purpose to preserve her health

This is armor's primary function. Whether you are a dude or a lady or somewhere in between, it makes no difference.

>> No.19040078

>>19039523
death, taxes and "skimpy armour what do" threads

>> No.19040872

>>19039523
Someone's jelly /tg/ has all the skimpy warrior girls.

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