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18933485 No.18933485 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

C'tan fluff says that the Nightbringer carved the fear of death in all living things expect the Orks. So why are Orks not fearless?

>> No.18933514

Orkz don't fear death.

It makes no sense

>> No.18933522
File: 43 KB, 411x200, Yarrick.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18933522

Because HFY.

>> No.18933527

Orks don't fear death. They do however have a self preservation instinct where they don't want to die, as it stops them fighting until Gork and Mork spit them into another body and that is just unacceptable. Besides losing means you have been krumped, and zog that.

>> No.18933542

People seem to have this discussion pretty well handled.
I'll be redundant though!
1)Orks can be fearless if they have 11 or more men in the squad.
2)Nightbringer brought about the fear of death, that has nothing to do with the fear of losing

>> No.18933544

>>18933527
Orks never lose though.
They die fightin so it dont count

>> No.18933568

>>18933485
Orks don't fear death, they just find it rather unpleasent.

>> No.18933622
File: 103 KB, 1366x768, Spacemarinechapter11p1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18933622

>"WE'Z ALL GUNNA DIIIIIEEEEE!"
>"BOSS! WE GOTTA GO!"
>"DERE'Z TOO MANY OF 'EM!"
>"DA BOYZ ARE ALL GONNA DIE! RUN!"
>"IT'Z TOO MUCH, INNIT!"
>"I WON'T DO IT!"

(Relic) Orks is made fer runnin' and screamin'.

>> No.18933632

>>18933622

QUIT YER RUNNIN', YOU LOOK LIKE A SCARED HUMIE!

>> No.18933646

>>18933485
Maybe the one who wrote the fluff was a puny eldar or 'umie.
And to them the orks do seem kinda fearless, I guess.

>> No.18933670

>40K
>Consistent Lore

Pick one.

>> No.18933683

Cause C'tan are dumb.

>> No.18933711

Its because there all filthy xenos

>> No.18933715
File: 93 KB, 1024x954, NightBringer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18933715

>>18933683
Take that back, sub-creature, or suffer my WRATH!

>> No.18933746
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18933746

>>18933715
Oh boy, another one for Cryptek Oak.

>> No.18933799

>>18933485
>C'tan fluff says that the Nightbringer carved the fear of death in all living things expect the Orks. So why are Orks not fearless?

An Eldar myth distorted by 60 millions of years of history says that. Doesn't mean this is what happened though.
That's like saying "The Bible says that humans were cursed with mortality after the Original Sin. So why people who don't believe in the Bible aren't immortal?"

>> No.18933813

Orks were created primarily for fighting the necron, so it makes sense that they'd be engineered to withstand the nightbringer.

>> No.18933824
File: 1.09 MB, 1279x1023, ss_de_ork.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18933824

>Orks aren’t afraid of much: they’re not afraid of death, or injury, and they positively enjoy battle. Nonetheless they do fear particularly horrific mutants, unearthly psychic powers and some other sorts of weirdness. To represent this, models must take a Leadership test when confronted by certain fearsome creatures or circumstances.

A little something from the Gorkamorka Roolz, which I just found out are actually hosted on the GW site (though there doesn't seem to be any direct way of accessing them other than via Google). For those interested:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1340010_GorkaMorka_-_Da_Roolz.pdf

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1340010_GorkaMorka_-_Da_Roolz.pdf

>> No.18933828

The ork worlds never had any shards of the nightbringer on them, so they never had to deal with him.

Instead they had shards of the muckerabout. The most terrible of the c'tan.

>> No.18933833

>>18933799
Because all humans believers or not share the blood of Adam and with it his Sin against god.

>> No.18933853

>So why are Orks not fearless?
Because GW's fucking retarded. And Fearless is a penalty that causes you to spontaneously fall-over dead, unless you're being shot at.

>> No.18933864
File: 149 KB, 668x864, NightBringer3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18933864

>>18933746
I WILL NOT BE CONTAINED!

I SHALL FEAST UPON YOUR TEARS AND SUFFERING!

>> No.18933900
File: 144 KB, 750x536, Ultramarine.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18933900

''And they shall know....NO FEAR''

As decreed by the holy Emperor of Mankind, only his champions are fearless.

>> No.18933940

>>18933485
Orks are too stupid to understand the concept of death.
SO they cant be scared cause stupidity

>> No.18933972

>>18933853
This! Let's give everything ld10 and/or fearless!!!
Pancake rules for president 6th ed

>> No.18933979

I've always liked to think Orks are just to stubborn and stupid to fear anything.

>> No.18934081

>>18933940

>Orkz
>Stupid

I think you mean kunnin'

>> No.18934090

>>18934081
No, they talk funny so obviously they must be stupid.

>> No.18934153

>>18933485
So guys.

Want to take bets about who is gonna win in the current major war between the the Boyz and the Bugz?

>> No.18934277

>>18934153
Nids are winning and the Swarmlord just spawned. They're going to win.

>> No.18934282

>>18934153
I really hope the orks do, but the latest nid codex makes it sound like they got the orks running.

Maybe if they added in the arch arsonist as a special ork character(largest warboss ever recorded, even bigger than ghazzy) who has twinlinked burnas(usable as power weapons even if he fires?) and 2+/4++ and gives his army preferred enemy on nids or maybe prevents some of their hive mind bullshittery spells like paroxsym(whatever that one that makes you WS1 and ini 1)

Or maybe he has a pet weird boy for an extra cost that gives him a null field to all squadmates against tyranids like blessing of the blood god( acts like a psychic hood against all other armies). Maybe even give him a retinue of nobz with burnas/klaws.

Hell I just want a newer, bigger boss than ghazzkul depicted in the rules. A man can dream.

>> No.18934312

>>18934282
Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka was actually one of the first 40k special characters. He dates all the way back to Waaargh: Orks.
SO, I doubt that's something you're going to get.

>> No.18934313

>>18934282

There's never going to be a bigger boss than Ghaz in GW's rules, his schtick is that he's "the single most influential Ork in the galaxy" as the book says. It's like expecting a Chaos Lord more powerful than Abaddon to pop up in a CSM dex.

Snagrod ain't no bigga or more inf-inful...stronger boss than Ghazghkull, Arch Arsonist is a fancy title for the leader of Charadon.

>> No.18934324

>>18934282
>largest warboss ever recorded, even bigger than ghazzy
Where does it say that? The Ork codex only says that his *empire* is the largest of its kind, not the Arch-Arsonist himself.

And besides, if anyone should be a new special character, it's the Mighty Mangler of Bork.

>'Ya fink I'm gonna stop wiv dat pasty-faced Grot of a planet starin' at me every night? I'm gonna punch out every single one of dem winky little gits up there or die tryin!'
>- The Mighty Mangler ruminates upon the heavens

>> No.18934343

>>18934324
Y'know who I want to have rules?
Mad Chainsaw Johnson of the White Scars.

>> No.18934344
File: 899 KB, 1920x1080, Swarmlord.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18934344

>>18934277
Yep, the Orks are screwed.

>> No.18934390
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18934390

>>18934090
But orks are "stupid". If one actually thinks or uses tactics or tricks -at all- they are seen as a paragon of genius among their people.

Even their "scientists" are mentally retarded, just slapping things together, shit that only works because they think it does.

They are comedy relief, only rarely do they get to step outside of that.

>> No.18934395

Didn't I read somewhere that there were Orkz floating around in space that were the size of planets?

>> No.18934410

>>18934390

>Orks are comic relief
>implying that's not Tau

>> No.18934415
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18934415

>>18934344
The Swarmlord has been beaten before.

>Marneus Calgar, having narrowly escaped death at the hands of the Swarmlord during their confrontation on Macragge, was to face the beast again on the blood-soaked fields of Ichar IV. Accompanied by Veterans from the First Tyrannic War, Calgar led a daring Drop Pod assault that cut the head of the Tyranid’s synaptic control, a battle that ended with the Chapter Master slaying the Swarmlord in single combat. Without the Swarmlord to counter Calgar’s brilliant military strategy, the Ultramarines proceeded to surround the remaining xenos swarms piecemeal, cutting them down with disciplined volleys of bolter fire and cleansing them from the surface of Ichar IV.

>> No.18934418

>>18934277
>Nids were retconned to be winning and GW never lets the Orks win.

Fixed that for you.

>> No.18934419

>>18934410
the tau as a faction are a comic relief, the orks, as individuals, are too.

>> No.18934459

>>18934390
You are the epitome of everything that is fucking terrible about /tg/ when it comes to Orks.

Orks are simple, NOT stupid.

They do not "Clap there hands if you believe". Their shit works. It's just confusing to anyone else because it's a mess of wires and redundant systems. The Waaagh-effect only keeps their weapons from jamming, and makes their otherwise unwieldy melee weapons a lot less clumsy in their hands.

>> No.18934472

>>18934415
That was Calgar and those were the Ultramarines. There is no Ork in existence who could equal Calgar and there are no Orks who are a match to the Ultramarines.

>> No.18934484

Orks have no fear of death.

Nobody ever said they don't have a fear of /pain/.

Even if they can live through much more of it than most folks.

>> No.18934514

The orks will win as they get a new codex sooner. Then when nids get one they win again etc.etc.

>> No.18934520

>>18934390
you retard

the orks and their technology are always described as "crude but efficient", the only few, dubious occurrences of the waaagh effect only have secondary, auxiliary roles: they negate small, barely significant flaws, or enhance slightly the features of otherwise functional systems. It also helps orks grow bigger.

>> No.18934521
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18934521

>>18934472
Not even (and god help me I can't find the pic)...Marneus Calgork?

>> No.18934528

>>18934520
Then why do red vehicles go faster?

>> No.18934536

>>18934528
Because the Waaagh-field keeps them from overheating and exploding in their faces.

>> No.18934547

>>18934528
Because orks paint the fast ones red.

>> No.18934549

>>18934528
Because of the god of Speed is growing in power, fed by orks, blood angels, saim-hann, and that one dark eldar kabal.

>> No.18934551

>>18934528
because the waaagh effect:
>enhances slightly the features of otherwise functional systems

>> No.18934553

>>18934484
Same guy here

Second idea, holy shit this makes way the fuck more sense

Orks are afraid of pain in the sense that dying isn't scary, but suffering before hand is.

But more than anything else, anything ever

Orks are afraid of LOSING.

See, this is why they puff themselves up as "da biggest an da baddest", and why they insist that they're right in everything they do. They don't want to lose.

This is why leadership tests are still necessary; da boyz need to be convinced by da nobz dat dey can still win. Otherwise their fear of failure and losing overwhelms them, and they become desperate to run away until they have enuff dakka to win the day.

tl;dr Orks aren't afraid of death, they're afraid of /losing/, and it's a damn good thing that so many factions in 40k equate one with the other.

>> No.18934556

>>18934521

allofmyteef.jpg

>> No.18934576

>>18934459
Canon had an ork big shoota that lacked a firing pin.
Likewise with orks flying planes that didn't have any gas.

>> No.18934580
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18934580

>>18934459
So this contraption right here is legitimately aerodynamic?

>> No.18934619

>>18934576
Sources?

I'm curious about it.

Especially as other sources show fuel as needed for ork vehicles.

>> No.18934647

>>18934580
by 40k standards, yes.

>> No.18934670

>>18934580
Is this thign flying?
Cause to me, to me it looks like, it looks like it's walking.

>> No.18934683

>>18934410
Calling the Tau comic relief is like calling a child that stumbles down and hurts itself comic relief. What kind of sick person are you?

The Tau are young and are still growing. Their path toward maturity is bond to have some mistakes brought upon by their inexperience.

Just because the Tau got their hand of friendship bitten a few times does not qualify them as comic relief.

>> No.18934684

>>18934670
It just hasnt taken off yet.
No but it is a converion right?

>> No.18934687

>>18934647
Gotta agree, it looks far more aerodynamic than many space marine vehicles.

>> No.18934690
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18934690

>>18934324
actually sir, the largest ork in recorded history almost strangled the God Emperor to death. he was saved by Horus. True story breh.

>> No.18934697

>>18934683
The tau will win 40k, MLP style

>> No.18934701

>>18934619
The latter was orks stealing Imperial planes that were grounded for refueling.

>> No.18934722

>>18934690
You mean it struggled to strangle him, in exact words.

>> No.18934732
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18934732

>>18934697
YAY!

>> No.18934740

>>18934697
MLP is about a race that forcibly subjugates other races and then makes them second class citizens?
Hardcore.

>> No.18934741

>>18934690
>largest ork in recorded history
People say this a lot, but I've never seen anything regarding the Gorro warlord's size.

>> No.18934748

>>18934741
(well, except for the fact that it was "huge")

>> No.18934755

>>18934701
I can't understand what is wrong with me, but it almsot has some sort of appeal. Stealing planes without gas, killing people with home made guns and then when IG opens the gun and only a few empty shells rattle around.

As long as it isnt shoot lazor from sticks!!!
It is almost spooky. I.. sort of like it.

>> No.18934759

>>18934740
>Griffons
>Earth pone

Yep.

>> No.18934774

>>18934740
>forcibly subjugates other races
Yeah, sometimes. It's a retcon, but still.

>and then makes them second class citizens
[citation needed]

>> No.18934794
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18934794

>>18934774
Gue'vesa are sent into combat roughly as well-armed as the Guard. They also use kroot as cannon fodder.

>> No.18934797

>>18934576
>>18934701
Again... sources!? And good luck on that.one.

>> No.18934811

>>18934740
They do keep talking sheep as their slaves.

>> No.18934837
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18934837

>>18934794
The Kroot battle doctrine favors the headbutting of the enemy and engaging in the savagery of melee. It is not the will of the Tau that complies the Kroot to throw themselves directly at the throats and weapons of the enemies.

>Gue'vesa

Picture realated.

>> No.18934856
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18934856

>>18934794
>In times of war, the Tau allow the Gue’vesa access to more advanced weaponry such as pulse rifles and carbines and other, more specialised equipment. These auxiliaries have become a respected part of the Tau military in the border regions, where they fill a tactical niche between the barbaric Kroot and the mainstay of Tau armies, the Fire Warrior teams. The Gue’vesa may lack the close combat savagery of the Kroot, but they are fully capable of using the more advanced examples of Tau technology, and using them to further the cause of the Greater Good.
- Chapter Approved: Tau Human Auxiliaries

>When they absolutely must storm defences, the attack will be led by auxiliary troops such as the Kroot in a variation of Kauyon. The assault troops are not used as pawns – the Tau way of war does not recognise the concept of expendable troops. Instead their safety is entrusted to the troops providing the covering fire who must identify and kill enemy firebases before the assault force suffers serious harm. The Kroot are frequently used as ‘stormers’ because their natural fieldcraft skills allow them to make the best use of natural cover as they advance.
- Codex: Tau Empire (4th edition)

>In recent times auxiliary troops such as Kroot are used as the lure, although some septs still regard the role as one that honours both hunter and prey and allow only bonded Fire warrior teams to undertake it.
- Codex: Tau (3rd edition)

>> No.18934864
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18934864

>>18934811
No, they are free to go, whenever they please.

>> No.18934904

>>18934856
There's also a BL book, I forget its name.
The Tau do lovely things like send Gun Drones into a hive programmed to shoot anything that isn't a Tau (might as well send fucking genestealers). The humans they subjugate live in ghettos. Then you have Fire Warriors using outright terror tactics.

>> No.18934925

c'tan fluff is retarded

>> No.18934944
File: 40 KB, 300x191, DC_Nightbringer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18934944

>>18934925

Say it to my face, Insect, SAY IT TO MY FACE!

>> No.18934962

>>18934904
>There's also a BL book, I forget its name.
That's what you said last time when you realized Tau didn't exist during the Horus Heresy

>> No.18934971

>>18934962
...What?

>> No.18934981

>>18934971
I'm taking a shot in the dark, you may know who you are.

>> No.18934982

>>18934962
No, it's not him who said that, it's me. and as I said, I am so used to discuss only HH books that I used "HH" instead of "BL". But of course you ignored that.

>> No.18935007

>>18934981
I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

>> No.18935008

>>18934982
Of course I'm ignoring it, why else am I talking to you like this?
Moving on, that Tau thread before was completely awful, wasn't it

>> No.18935026

Fucking Tau apologists "No! The Tau have never done anything bad ever, no brainwashing, no forced sterilization centres for conquered people's, no wholesale ethnic cleansing because their initial peaceful offers were rejected).

Yeah, and Chaos just wants to save people from the evil stagnant Imperium too. :P

>> No.18935048

>>18935026
>>18934982
>>18934962
>>18935008
IT BEGGINS!

>> No.18935055 [DELETED] 

>>18935026
Why are putting words into they're mouths-
>:P
Oh. You're a troll.

>> No.18935067

>>18935026
Why are putting words into their mouths-
>:P
Oh. You're a troll.

>> No.18935078

>>18935007
A few days ago, I, a different Anon, mentioned a BL book in which non-taus lived in ghettos. But, as I made the mistake of writing "HH" instead of "BL", that guy >>18934962
>>18934981
>>18935008
jumped on the opportunity to call bullshit because the tau didn't exist during the Horus Heresy, because of course, having canon material depict the tau as segregationists would ruin his idealistic vision of the tau. And since you referred to the same book, he assumed that you were me. Because of course, such a blasphemous book cannot possibly exist.

>> No.18935086

>>18935078
Ah.

>> No.18935107

>>18935078
You should, however, at least give some details. I'd be interested in looking into it, but I'm not fond of the tau.

As far as I'm aware, the only books with significant Tau involvement are Fire Warrior and 1 or more of the Tau books. Would it be one of these?

>> No.18935111

>>18935078
>having canon material depict the tau as segregationists would ruin his idealistic vision of the tau
No it wouldn't. Whatever made you think that? Because I've reminded you of a mistake? Does it bother you to the point of becoming defensive?

>> No.18935114

>>18934904
Do you mean the Last Chancers novel that covered the events of Nimbosa?

If you do then that was the action of a rogue commander who was consumed by his hatred for the Imperial Gue'la. This atrocity has shamed the entire Tau Emipre. It was denounced and rejected by the Ethereal Council and the Fire Caste.

This crime of a single individual does not represent the whole entirety of the benevolent Tau Empire.

His name was Shas'o Tash'var Ol'nan B'kak he was a student of Commander Farsight (The apple did not fall far from the tree). The Ethereal council wanted to call him back to T'au to face trial for his misdeeds, but sadly he was killed before that could happen.

>> No.18935134

>>18935107
So, I haven't read it myself, I read about it on a French rpg board a few years ago. It isn't Fire Warrior, and it's narrated from the pov of humans.

It also says that the tau are vegetarians because eating animals would not be nice.

>>18935111
Oh, then you're merely an asshole who automatically assumes that people are lying solely to piss them off.

>> No.18935150

>>18935114
I think it's that one, yes. It explains the high amount of mercenaries in the ghettos, besides.

>> No.18935192
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18935192

>>18935134
Now now, I've only done it to you. Don't go and say I'm doing something I'm not doing, again. I'm not automatically skeptical to everyone, just to those who sound like they don't know much of what they're talking about.

After all, you just said so yourself that your source of information was from a forum, which isn't so bad except you're now using it for an argument against a whole faction and player base.

>> No.18935193

>>18935107
Er, one or more of the CAIN books, rather.

>> No.18935220

>>18935192
As a matter of fact, you just did it again to him >>18934971 by assuming he was me.

>> No.18935223

>>18935193
Yeah, the first cain book takes place on a Tau/Human world. And is far, far more supportive of the Tau than Fire Warrior.
It's crazy.

>> No.18935238

Orks!

>> No.18935246
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18935246

>>18935220
Do ho ho ho! Oh well, some of the points still stand. and some of the others stand somewhere else.

>> No.18935294

>>18935223
Hmm...I was warned off reading BL books due to their supposedly bad quality and was told people do not take them seriously. I mostly stick to the official Tau knowledge, but if people are going to use these books as ammunition against the Tau then I must get my hands on them and examine them in order to give an unbiased and truthful analysis of the events in these books.

>> No.18935327

Interesting how this is spiralling into Tau-hate rather than MLP-hate.

>> No.18935334

To the guy who undermines the power of the Waaagh, it's said that often Ork shootas are nothing more than a metal box with some bolts inside it.

The Waaagh makes things work, that's the whole point of it. Things happen because the Orks believe it will happen, you gibbering imbecile.

>> No.18935342

>>18935294
What? You've never read Fire Warrior, let alone any BL book? Who the hell told you to do this? /lit/?
You're missing out.

>> No.18935352

>>18935334
That doesn't mean they can just pick up a stick and fire bullets from it.
It has to look like a gun and feel like a gun.

>> No.18935355

>>18935327
Not really. Maybe 1 or 2 posters.

>> No.18935365

>>18935352
You've never pretended sticks were guns before?

>> No.18935379

>>18935294
> I mostly stick to the official Tau knowledge
See, here you have a problem. BL books ARE official. Everything is official. That is GW's stance on fluff.

You have to treat it like history. Numerous conflicting accounts, whose validity you have to decide on an individual basis, and attempt to make a cohesive whole from.

>> No.18935411

>>18935365
Stop being stupid.

The waggh field is not "pretend stick is gun and it will fire bolts".

The waghh field was always described to make things work when they probably shouldn't work. Its supposed to be like a cartoon, where a character runs off a cliff, doesnt realize it and keeps running, and when he figures out where he is, he falls off;.

In the same vein, if an Ork is flying a rokkit, it will work even if it ran out of fuel because the Ork thinks its running fine. But if he sees that there is no more fuel, the rokkit will cease to function.

The waggh field operates on the ork perception of things.

>> No.18935412

>>18935334
Which explains why it's possible for humans to use them when there are no orks around.

Oh, wait, no it doesn't.

>> No.18935473

>>18935411
So what you're saying is, we need to make an army of Helen Keller orks.

>> No.18935484

>>18935294
BL books are good for background and ideas

They are bad for power level comparisons and should not be used as such.

Actual writing quality varies from terrible (see: goto, counter) to mediocre (thorpe, swallow), to good (mitchell, abnett, spurrier, dempski-bowden).

>> No.18935496

>>18935484
>abnett
>good
No.

>> No.18935503

>>18935294
codices are, from a literary standpoint, often worse than BL books, and from a fluff standpoint, the only problem with BL books is that they often contradict the codex fluff, which is only a problem if you assume that the codex fluff is "superior" to the BL fluff and overrides it, which is false.

>> No.18935513

>>18935484
>No mention of McNeil whats so ever
>>18935496
Yes.

>> No.18935518

>>18935496
he's a good comics writer, a decent book writer, a mediocre 40k book writer.

>> No.18935521

>>18935503
>>18935484
Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about "canonical background" will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history...

Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.

Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths.

I think the real problem for me, and I speak for no other, is that the topic as a "big question" doesn't matter. It's all as true as everything else, and all just as false/half-remembered/sort-of-true. The answer you are seeking is "Yes and no" or perhaps "Sometimes". And for me, that's the end of it.

>> No.18935532

>>18935521
Now, ask us some specifics, eg can Black Templars spit acid and we can answer that one, and many others. But again note that answer may well be "sometimes" or "it varies" or "depends".

But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies.

It's a decaying universe without GPS and galaxy-wide communication, where precious facts are clung to long after they have been changed out of all recognition. Read A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M Miller, about monks toiling to hold onto facts in the aftermath of a nucelar war; that nails it for me.

Sorry, too much splurge here. Not meant to sound stroppy.

To attempt answer the initial question: What is GW's definition of canon? Perhaps we don't have one. Sometimes and maybe. Or perhaps we do and I'm not telling you.

>> No.18935551

>>18935496
abnett is formulaic (like mitchell) but his background in comics isn't really suited to the imperial guard and leads to poor protagonists. his iron snakes book was pretty good, and i personally liked double eagle. also, the actual level of writing is quite solid. the terrible-tier cannot write a coherent story, the mediocre tier can keep it moving but there are still severe underlying flaws. abnett can actually piece together a coherent story without major plot holes (ravenor, eisenhorn), so this puts him a step above them.

also add farrer to the good list.

>> No.18935569

>>18935334
No, they really don't. You're following the greatest misconception about Orks that non-Ork players perpetuate. The Waaagh DOES have an effect, but it's nowhere near the Hurr-Durr level /tg/ and numerous 40k fanboys perpetuate. Orks can't treat a metal-pipe with astick attached as a 'gun' and having it shoot bullets because they believe really hard. They also can't fly a cardboard cut-out of a plain by pretending really fucking hard. The Waaagh has mostly a psychological effect on the Orks, and lets them overcome what would otherwise be shoddy equipment. Riveted armor doesn't prove as much of a problem for them (when history showed that riveted armor was terrible). Unwieldy and clumsy weaponry (like Choppas) aren't as unbalanced or clumsy in their hands. The redundant mechanics of an Ork gun won't jam in the hands of an Ork, despite being prone to jamming when fired by anyone (or anything) else. And using and operating another race's tech is often just a matter of rewiring the hell out of it and adding more rivets, even if would have a high tendency to overload or explode as soon as a non-ork tries to use it.

Orks are simple, not stupid. And they do not follow the "Clap Your Hands If You Believe" trope nearly as much as 12-yr olds would like to think.

>> No.18935572

My favorite Black Library author is Ian Watson.
Come at me.

Also Brian Craig is pretty good.

>> No.18935586

>>18935551
Abnett's marines are piss-poor, and his IG books are a hell of a lot better written.

He's even admitted to that, due to how hard it is to portray marines 'decently', while adhering to GW's mandatory "Bestest than everything else" mantra.

>> No.18935633

>>18935513
mcneil i'm not sold on
he's written some good stuff (storm of iron), some solid stuff (ultramarines) but then the killing ground was bland as all hell, and then courage and honour was fucking shit

>> No.18935635

>>18935496
He's mediocre-grade Sci-Fi writing, and nowhere near the likes of Azimov, Zelazny, or PJF. But he's certainly better than the rest of BL's shovel-fiction writers.

>> No.18935653

>>18935633
Have you ever read any of his HH? Those are some of his best work.

>> No.18935666
File: 114 KB, 573x592, 1291263077455.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18935666

>>18935294

The main thing you should realize here, TIDF, is that no one will ever give you the name of the BL book that supposedly has Tau forcing human auxiliaires to live in ghettos. The reason for this is obvious, there's no such book.

>> No.18935684

>>18935666
But...TIDF does know the book he's talking about...

>> No.18935687

>>18935586
his IG books have too much plot armour. mkvenner? mkoll? more like mkmary sues

i read up to gereon and the scene in one of the early books where an entire squad of khorne berzerkers ambushes a basilisk convoy and get fucking facemelted by a squad or two of ghost with no casualties was incomprehensible from an in-universe standpoint

cain had a whole damn squad with him against a single crippled berzerker and he still shit his pants and very nearly got his shit ruined

>> No.18935694

>>18935635
What is up with you and your high standards? Tell me what you enjoy then.

>> No.18935711

>>18935653
i read HH sometimes, which did he write?

i just remember that battle for the abyss was a forgettable book about a forgettable battle written by a forgettable author (counter)

>> No.18935722

>>18935687
>his IG books have too much plot armour. mkvenner? mkoll? more like mkmary sues

Compared to any other Space Marine novel? His IG Plot Armor is pretty fucking tame. Besides... unlike other BL Shovel-fiction writers, Abnett kills characters. I give Mkoll another 2 books tops before he goes the way of Brag, Caff, and all the others.

>> No.18935739

>>18935711
Fulgrim
Thousand Sons
Mechanicum
Outcast Dead

All of these were very, very entertaining

>> No.18935757

>>18935694
Nothing that bears the Black Library logo. That's for damned sure. If I want to hear a story about how amazing some spess-mehreen is, and how many thousands of people he killed in just one punch, I'd go to a Games Workshop store and ask little Timmy Firepants about his custom chapter.

>> No.18935763

>>18935739
fulgrim and mechanicum were solid then

didn't read the other two

>> No.18935777

>>18935757
Now you're just coming off as unpleasant and snide. I'm sorry I asked, sheesh buddy.

>> No.18935783

>>18935722
I dunno, Space Marine ended with all but one of the Marines dying. Plenty more non-protagonist Marines died throughout.
It's a fucking great novel.

>> No.18935792

>>18935757

Enemies of the Space Marines don't count as people

-Heretics aren't people
-Orks are enemy fungus things
-Eldar and Dark Eldar are enemy space elfs
-Necrons are hostile toasters
-Tyranids are space bugs
-Tau are space bovines
-Daemons are the creations of evil wizards

>> No.18935841

>>18935777
Good. You have to be unpleasant, and more than a little snide, to deal with a lot of 40k-fanwankers on /tg/.

>> No.18935886
File: 72 KB, 376x512, tyranid-warrior1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18935886

Soooo....we're still winning, right guys?

>> No.18935906

>>18935841
Preeeety sure your just a douche.

>> No.18935909
File: 21 KB, 272x299, Tau_Sympathizer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18935909

This is all I need to know about the traitors who ally with Tau xenos filth

>> No.18935922

>>18935906
>you're

>> No.18935926

>>18935909
Don't forget they will still your babies and sacrifice them to their gods

>> No.18935931

>>18935783
Yeah, and each one kills what... 700? 800 enemies? How many battle tanks do they kill due to 'tacti-cool superiorit?'

>> No.18935944

>>18935906
If it makes you sleep easier at night, then sure thing.

>> No.18936014

>>18935342
You guys told me and me being so naive and impressionable back then believed you.

>>18935379
>You have to treat it like history. Numerous conflicting accounts, whose validity you have to decide on an individual basis, and attempt to make a cohesive whole from.

Oh...I see.

Then the problem lays in convincing others of my valid view of history.

>>18935521
>>18935503
Thi...this will not make my job any easier.

>>18935666
There won't be after I gathered all the copies and burned them to ashes.

>>18935684
I THINK I know, but I am not sure. I need the details.

The accounts about the Gue'vesa describe them as enjoying their peaceful lives in the Tau Empire living alongside their Tau brethren in advanced cities of the Empire and working with them in farmsteads, AND then these claims pop up about the Tau mistreatment of their subjects. Of course most of these claims are lies nonetheless they must be studied.

>> No.18936036

>>18935684
pretty sure he's wrong, and that the last chancers doesn't involve killbot muderdrones

>> No.18936070

>>18936014
Alright TIDF. Do you have any questions involving BL books, at least Fire Warrior? (As a Tau fan I have read it) Maybe some book recommendations?

>> No.18936103

>>18936070
>Maybe some book recommendations?

Yes, that would be great. Any book that involves the Tau will do.

>> No.18936119

>>18936103
dark eldar codex
ork codex

>> No.18936130
File: 72 KB, 696x690, 1325081577382.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18936130

>>18936119
oh u

>suffrage rimesh

>> No.18936173

>>18936103
there are only like 5 books involving tau
last chancers... book 2 i think
cain book 1
fire warrior
courage and honour
... can't think of a 5th

>> No.18936185

>>18936103
Tau books? Alright, but Fire Warrior is the only one where it's being told from a Tau's perspective

Courage and Honor by Graham McNeil
Savage Scars by Andy Hoare
The Last Chancers by Gav Thorpe
The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer
And some Ciaphas Cain books too, though I don't know which ones

Don't expect much enjoyment besides the last 2 books and Fire Warrior (If you can find and read Fire Warrior), TIDF. They're decent at best.

>> No.18936192

>>18936103
>Any book that involves the Tau will do.

There's the first Caiphus Cain book. It's told from an Imperial perspective, but takes place on a world that's undergoing a peaceful Tau occupation. The Tau (and Kroot) get a bit of attention and don't turn out to be the bad guys of the book, working together with the Imperials to a slight degree.

>> No.18936211

>>18936173
>>18936185
might as well mention xenology

>> No.18936237

>>18936211
Yeah, though it's considered outdated and slightly (And possibly entirely) wrong. Like that drawing with a Tau with human feet. It also mentioned mind control implications, but that was contradicted by a Deathwatch book I think. An Inquisitor tried using a null on an Ethereal and nothing happened.

>> No.18936292

>>18936119
The War of Dakka and the War of Dark Revelations are not new to me. I have read them before and the latter one really cemented my loathing of the vile accursed Dark El'Dar. Whenever these degenerates are mentioned my teeth instinctively grind.

>>18936173
>>18936185
>>18936192
You have my thanks and appreciation, friends!

>> No.18936300
File: 17 KB, 970x66, xenology hooves.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18936300

>>18936237
BECAUSE USING A NULL ON SOMETHING IMPLIED TO WORK VIA PHEROMONES WOULD DO JACK SHIT.

Also, the feet were an art fuck-up because the artist was freelance. The text directly mentions their hooves.

>> No.18936316

>>18936300
Oh right, pheromones. My minds fuzzy. I remember there being some implication somewhere from something that the Ethereals used psychic mind control though.

>> No.18936338
File: 91 KB, 394x783, ethereals.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18936338

>>18936316
It's speculation, nothing more.

>> No.18936355

>>18936316
It's just one of the various theories the Imperium has as to how the Ethereals are able to command such loyalty from the rest of the Tau. There's nothing to actually support it beyond hearsay though.

>> No.18936362
File: 348 KB, 1095x1606, told tau.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18936362

>>18936338
Which has its own internal support, but of course isn't out and out stated.

>> No.18936365
File: 223 KB, 1280x960, WAIT WHY DOES HE HAVE A KATA-.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18936365

>>18936338
Well yeah. Anything involving general grimdark stuff with Tau are just vague implications.

>> No.18936394

>>18936338
So... sebuku?

Tell me again Tau fans, how are they not the most weeaboo bullshit in the game?

>> No.18936434
File: 389 KB, 1152x1601, 1335628517153.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18936434

>>18936394
Because they're actually influenced by multiple cultures, mainly China and Japan, but Greece and Israel as well.

And because the Eldar and the IG are weeaboo as well.

>> No.18936457

>>18936434
The GW line is that they are based on manga.
Deal with it.

>> No.18936479

>>18936457
GW is retarded. That's not a surprise.
Your move.

>> No.18936505
File: 112 KB, 374x306, deal with it nerd.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18936505

>>18936479
Retards or no, the line by the very designers is that they are weeaboo bullshit.

>> No.18936548

>>18936505
You say it's weeaboo, because GW said something retarded, which they messed up on to begin with.

>> No.18936569

>>18936548
GW still said it, and they designed it. No matter what you say, they know more about its design process than you.
Deal.
With.
It.
Nerd.

>> No.18936590

>>18936569
No, what you're doing is stupid. You are being so stupid you are being even more stupid then what you're basing your stupidity on, which is GW's stupidity, stupid.

>> No.18936623
File: 950 KB, 476x319, deal with it.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18936623

>>18936590
No matter how much you whine, you're still pretending you know more about the Tau than their designers.

>> No.18936635

>>18936623
Everyone knows more about 40k than the retarded designers. Tell me in anyway shape or form how you are not being an idiot right now.

>> No.18936669
File: 124 KB, 573x572, you.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18936669

>>18936635
>everyone knows more about 40k than the people that made 40k to begin with
This is you. This is what you sound like.

>> No.18936685
File: 33 KB, 437x464, StalinDearDiary.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18936685

>> No.18936690

>>18936669
GW Employee detected.

>> No.18936704

Looks like Summer started early, using year old memes and pictures.

>>
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