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[ERROR] No.18843851 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Possibly looking into a Tyranid army a little down the road. Wondering what /tg thought about them.
>Have you fought them? What did you think?
>Do you run them and what do you think?
>Strengths and Weaknesses of codex?
>Fun stories
>I've heard how the carnifex arn't what teh used to be.

>> No.18843868

I've heard that most women into 40k prefer Tyranid armies.

>> No.18843886

>>18843868
And orks, too.

>> No.18843916

>>18843868

O rly? Why dat?

>> No.18843950

>I've heard how the carnifex arn't what teh used to be.

I got my army back in 4th edition. Started with a Battleforce, played a few games, the other dudes began to fear my 'fex because it could bust out like 10 attacks on a charge. Maybe more, I forget. But anyway, I bought another one and a Hive Tyrant and sent them down one flank, the other guys concentrated fire on them because they could really fuck shit up, but they ignored the rest of my army. Then I lost interest in 40k and moved onto tabletop RPGs, and only learned of the carnifex's downfall later. I've wanted to get back into the game from time to time, but fuck it, I put a decent amount of time and money into my army and I don't want to start a new one.

>> No.18843956

Carnifexes were nerfed to hell.

Nids cannot kill vehicles at all, Even if you spend a couple of hundred points on a anti tank bug its lightly to get singled out and taken down in the first few rounds.

>> No.18843967

>>18843916
They can relate to creatures that can rip your body into pieces, control your mind, and consume whole worlds.

>> No.18843969

Tyranidfag reporting in. It's a fun army. Your units are fast and hit hard, and you have lots of reserves options, but your guys are individually weak, and aren't good vs. vehicles. You get Monstrous Creatures instead of vehicles, too.

Carnifexes are decent, and have an awesome model, but you really gotta run multiples and be careful, because they die pretty easy for their points cost.

Tervigons and Doom of Malan'tai are your codex's cheese units. They are both laughably overpowered. Hive Guard and Genestealers are both solid, versatile units, and will do much of the actually killing in your army. Gargoyles and Hormagaunts are cannon fodder of the highest quality- get lots of them, and use them as mobile cover for your heavier hitters.

>> No.18843975

>>18843967

LOL

Well done, sir!

>> No.18843981

>>18843956
Are you talking about Tyrannofex? Because Hive Guard kill vehicles dead just fine. The only problem they have is range and for that you have Onslaught.

Of course 3 anti-tank units in the army isn't nearly enough.

>> No.18843989

>MFW when i've got a 2k point army of nids and i've never played a table top game because i'm told nids are shit

>> No.18843994

>>18843981
>3 anti-tank units in the army isn't nearly enough
Welcome to playing Eldar.

>> No.18844002

>>18843916
several possible reasons:

they are attracted to their tentacles and horsecock guns

they find them "genderless", and think that playing them will help them integrate in the community better (because they won't be seen as sluts or as girls trying too hard to be like boys)

they find them cute because girls are fucked up and think that everything is cute.

>> No.18844020

>>18843989

Just go ahead and play it. They aren't a terrible army at all. They are just mid tier right now, because two of the best armies, Space Wolves and Grey Knights, have a strong matching vs. them.

>> No.18844067

>>18843956
Heavy venom cannons are still a viable option, aren't they?
>>18843967
This explains everything...
>>18843851
strengths: they wrote the book on MS's
can easily outnumber even a green tide list
cool models
can rip monoliths and LR's apart

weaknesses:Grey Knights
high model count(pic related)
lack of effective ranged anti-tank

>> No.18844090

One of my most active opponents in 40k is a nid player, and what I can tell, is that the army is pretty good for both the hurr roflstomp player and those who actually know what tactics are.

To show my point;

I've played against a roflstomp list of Doom of Mallantai drop podding/hive guard through cover shots/Swarmlording Genestealers everywhere- goodyness to a more "retro style" nidzilla list with Carnifex squads, again the swarm lord, and a host of unbelievable amount of nid warriors.

Fuck all your shits, carnifex squads are PAIN. Just because they no longer are one-man-armies but a big horde-supporter-squad in a fucking HORDE army doesn't make them bad.

The face of your opponent when you allocate those wounds is priceless, he told me countless times.

fuck yeah carnifex squads. would play nids just to prove a point, but I like my dreads to much.

>> No.18844098

Someone should post the googly eye tyranids.

>> No.18844124

>>18844098
Hugs?

>> No.18844149

>>18844098

>> No.18844155

Oddly enough, carnifexes now are killy as hell as dakkafexes (Give them 2 pairs of the TL brainleech devoureres) They end up getting something like 8 S5 SP5 shots or something (I don't recall the brainleech profile) and can ream small MEQ units and shake/stun the hell out of light vehicles and walkers.

>> No.18844162

>>18844002
>they find them cute because girls are fucked up and think that everything is cute.

If not for this quality I would assume the human species would have died out long ago.
Who else would screw something with hair growing out of its asshole?

>> No.18844165

>>18844155

They get 12 twin-linked S6 AP- shots.

Survivability is still a problem though.

>> No.18844170

>>18844155

I run mine with Stranglethorn Cannon and one TL Devourer. What do you guys think about that build, btw? The Devourer's demoralizing effect synergizes with the Strangler's pinning tests, and c'mon, it's a pie plate on an assault weapon.

>> No.18844176

>>18844155
I thought the new dex make dakkafexes impossible/shit

>> No.18844186

>>18844162
Have you tried shaving?

>> No.18844250

Nids are fun, but are by no standards a competitive army. There was zero tyranid players in this years Adepticon.

>> No.18844254

>>18844186
You know hair grows back right?
and have you ever actually tried to shave your ass before?
1) you gotta do it yourself (unless you find someone who can do it for you, weird BTW) and your basically flying blind
2) It itches like a motherfucker afterwords, fire ass fo real
3) only other option is nair or waxing it, both of which are the most painful experiences you'll ever do to yourself.

>> No.18844271

>>18844250
And it was composed of like 240 players, that says a lot.

I don't see why everyone hates Ward, Kelly fucks over more codexes than Ward ever will.

>> No.18844305

>>18844271

You do know it was Cruddace that did the Nids right?

>> No.18844317

>>18844271
you can tell it was Cruddance because he has a giant raging hard on for single build armies

>> No.18844326

>>18844305

Dude's stealthy as fuck, all that poo fans keep flinging hits Kelly - if it's the 1% that gets past Ward.

>> No.18844339

>>18844271

How so? I didnt know Kelly had a major influence on the nids codex?
Also didnt think he did a bad job on the new Dark Eldar. Sure it's not crazy strong or OP but I feel its a solid codex. There are some shit I'd change in a heart beat however.

>> No.18844371

>>18843851
>Do you run them and what do you think?
They're my first and main army. The codex has a lot of flaws, but I think there's enough in there to love that if you like the army, you can have a lot of fun with it.

>Strengths
Wide variety of units and potential army builds. While Tyranids are thematically a hordey assault army, you can do a lot with the book. From small, elite armies to shooty forces, or an army that enters entirely from Deep Strike and more.

>Weaknesses
The book suffers from really poor internal balance. There are a handful of units that are virtually worthless, and others that are so outclassed by other things in the book they're barely worth fielding. This is less important if you're not interested in playing competitively, though - if you stick to the casual scene, it doesn't matter if your lists aren't stuffed with the best the book has to offer.

>> No.18844451

All 3 of them are shit-tier developers. Kelly only knows Eldar and "no-options, Aspect Squads" unless Jervis comes in and goes "Hey, let me tell you how to make my Space Yiff codex." Cruddace is FNG (Fucking New Guy), and is buffing the shit out of armies he likes while being utterly incompetent concerning what the current Meta is and how to leave an army worth playing in it. And Ward is "Everything Plus ALL THE KITCHEN SINKS". Oh sure, his codices are 'balanced'... against each other. But he's only the median between the 3 because he's written the most books and set the fucking meta to be so unforgiving on non-Imperial armies.

All 3 are shit. All 3 should be axed. And all 3 are a rampant examples of what's wrong with 40k.

>> No.18844463

>>18844371
Hey DL, I really love the gargoyle models, how would you suggest fielding them?

>> No.18844489

>>18844451

Ward codices are balanced against SW, Guard and Dark Eldar too.

Which pretty much means 5th edition codices (which are majority of 40k codices) are balanced, excluding tyranids and sisters (both Cruddace).

>> No.18844534

>>18844254
I have. You could try using Nair too.

>> No.18844537

>>18844451
>>18844317

On that note, why is Ward and Kelly are the seeminly only two headlining each codex back and forth? Where da fuck is everyone else?

>> No.18844546

>>18844537

They put Cruddace on Fantasy projects after Tyranids, though he found time to make the SoB rules.

Two out of five 8e fantasy armybooks are Cruddace.

>> No.18844556

>>18844463
A largish brood, about 20 or so. A full brood of 30 is best, but can get a little unweildy to use. They're fast enough that you'll want some sort of quick Synapse unit to baby-sit them. The Parasite of Mortrex is ideal for this as he can join the squad, so won't be at risk of being picked off. Shrikes can also work but they're rather fragile. Flyrants are also a possibility, but are very expensive and tend to die in the first shower of heavy weapons fire. Upgraded with Toxin Sacs, with their Blinding Venom rule, Gargoyles can force enough saves of a target to trouble even Space Marines. Send them down a flank, pick off isolated infantry units, then if they're still alive, swing round to support your main line as it attacks the bulk of the enemy army.

>> No.18844583

It's a gimpdex, and there's no reason to buy the models or the book for the army, since it can't stand up to anyone competent, even if they're using a piece of shit book from the olden days, like orks.

Cruddace dun fucked up.

>> No.18844596

>>18844489
>SW, Guard
>imperial

No shit.

His codices are also full of stupid "Gotcha!" gimmicks that are seemingly designed purely to raep-fest anyone who doesn't know exactly what they do, i.e. GK auto-win Grenades, Purifiers, Blood Talons, or "Lol whole world is Dangerous Terrain".

5th ed is a clusterfuck of gimmicks and special-stue rules for the sake of special non-USR rules. All 3 writers are to blame, and not one is worth keeping. I won't say Gav's sorry, biased ass was any better, but I will say Epic is certainly the only 40k game worth playing right now... Unless you want to play Grey Knights, IG, Blood bloods, or Spess Furries.

>> No.18844617

>>18844596

Booo, anti-infantry options that kill infanttry!

>> No.18844650

>>18844596

You can get GK super grenades on very few units, dealing with that unit is no harder than dealing with any other deathstar. Gimmick it is not, it's just another way to make a scary melee unit and we have had those since the game was introduced.

Army-specific rules are also awesome and differentiate the armies further. It's not like they're hard to learn or understand, and they utilize rulebook concepts, like how solar pulse uses night fight and writhing worldscape uses dangerous terrain.

Using non USR special rules isn't a new thing either. Trying to cut them resulted in "less is more" which was horrible.

>> No.18844693

I always find it funny when someone uses the SOB "codex" to fault Cruddace. Yes he should be vilified, but not for that. The Blood Angel WD-Codex travesty was just as bad. And the reason why BA and SOB both sucked so badly, was because they were given a scaled down list of rules to get the fanboys by until we get to a real codex for them. "In the meantime, nobody should pick the army up as a new army, because we want you to buy -insert new flavor- that we actually spent money on and can earn a profit from!"

Army lists printed in WD are not about generating buzz or being marketable. They're about getting the existing player-base by with sub-par rules and to urge those same players to possibly shelve the army and pick up something else in the meantime.

>> No.18844811

>>18844650
Army wide special rules are not the problem. UNIT special rules for the sake of not being a USR (no matter how closely worded, without the penalties), or as a "this army only" countermeasure for a problem with the core book (i.e. Lumbering Behemoth or BA's "Fast Vehicles").

>it's just another way to make a scary melee unit
In other words, a gimmick. It's a "Gotcha!" A "Hurr, pity you didn't realize I had -x- equipped which you didn't know about"

>> No.18844851

>>18844617
>Booo, anti-infantry gimmicks that wipe units off the board worth 2x or even 3x as much points!

They're not anti-infantry. They're anti no-fun-zone auto-wins.

>> No.18844852

>>18844811

So vehicles should be slow and unusable as gun tanks, cost nothing so you take them, or all be blessed with fast? What do you want the developers to do about Alessio fucking over tanks in 2008?

>> No.18844871

>>18844851

Yes, they're anti-infantry. Why aren't you preventing the opponent from using these things in the first place?

Do you think he should have no options for mass removal of your shitty 20,050 orks that take days to move?

>> No.18844896

>>18844852
>What do you want the developers to do about Alessio fucking over tanks in 2008?

I don't know. How about take a clue from other game companies and actually fix the problem! Wow, what a novel fucking idea! It's called an "errata", and it's not a new concept. Especially since vehicle-costs were not reduced for 5e's "pill-boxing". That way you don't end up with shit special rules designed to allow only the 'dev-favorites' work like vehicles should.

>> No.18844943

Get 'em if you aren't playing to win at all costs.

1. 40k has a steep learning curve. 'dexes like nids have an even steeper one.

2. Plan to lose every game for a year.

3. As a new player in a tournament-- if you see the other guy is playing Space Wolves or Grey Knights, just forfeit the round and take a lunch break. You'll do better for not having been raped.

Pic is Strange's Techno Tyranids. They took first overall in BoLSCon 2009.

>> No.18845007

Tyranids' strength lie in swarming your opponents in huge amounts of cheap, expendable infantry. Their weakness is in everything else. They can't hit for crap so you have to stack the odds by having huge swarms attacking a single model en mass. They are useless now against vehicles. You have to keep track of a huge army and make sure you have enough Tyrants and Warriors to maintain effective synapse control otherwise everything goes to shit.

Back in the day the Carnifex used to be the big bad any 'Nids list. In 4th Edition they were highly modular and the new plastic model set openly encouraged all kinds of shamelessly broken Carnifex builds. Naturally players ruined them so in the new 'Dex Carnies were scaled down and are basically useless. This served GW's plans two fold as it stopped people from having fun and allowed them to shift more emphasis on their even bigger, more expensive model kits that are now required for any kind of Tyranid victory.

>> No.18845014

>>18844871
>Do you think he should have no options for mass removal of your shitty 20,050 orks that take days to move?

Only so long as those shitty 20,050 Orks which already have core rules working against them have no answer to anything.

Again, Anti-Infantry options are fine. But "Lol I 100% win combat" when there are armies originally designed to be combat-centric, is fucking stupid. It's why Nids are sucking so hard, beyond the Mechanized-emphasis of 5e, and why Orks are now a shooty army first and hardly worthwhile for a pure-combat army.

>> No.18845023

>>18844943
I'm so confused at that pic

>> No.18845079

>>18844811

BA fast vehicles and lumbering behemoth are not "answers to rulebook problems", they are rules to make certain units unique and fun, and those units also pay the penalty for, BA rhino chassis vehicles pay 15 point premium for fast etc. They're balanced with non-fast SW/SM rhino chassis.

There is no problem here, you're basically complaining about meaningless things.

>baw grenades are gimmick because I'm too stupid to read an army list or ask about stuff
Actually, not any more so than something like a squad of nobs (even in 3e). "Baw i didn't know those guys were that much stronger than boyz". Psychotroke Grenades are balanced and come on expensive HQ's or single wound IC's that take slots from some of the better units in the codex. It's like a CC squad with a character in it would be more dangerous than one without! Shock!

>> No.18845097

@ Deathleaper's Fangirl: Thanks for the advice on my neon Dark Eldar the other day, by the way. I stomped that asshat Space Wolf player pretty hard. He ragequit after 3 turns.

>> No.18845113

>>18845079
I have less of a problem with the grenades as i do the psybolt ammo on dreads, shit ruins my medium creatures all day

>> No.18845131

>>18845097
Seriously? That's awesome! I'm really glad to hear you did so well.

>> No.18845145

>>18845113

Yeah tyranids get fucked by psycannons. But then again, they're also fucked by Vendettas, obliterators, vindicators, leman russes, devastators & long fangs...here we have Cruddace's fuckups to blame. Synapse creatures should have 4++ against shooting attacks to balance the loss of EW.

>> No.18845155

>>18843994
prism, wraith lord, seer council, falcon, reapers w/ missie launcher, fire dragons even pathfinders are pretty reliable can openeners. Also haywire 'nades.

>> No.18845157

>>18845113
This. The actual rule isn't at fault, but the price tag being at least a third less than it should be is.

Plus you have special shit like the Plasma Siphon that, while not that widely used, is such a blatant fuck-you for Tau when the FAQ came out that it's fucking ridiculous. It'd be like if the Necron codex included a shuriken siphon or similar stupid bullshit.

>> No.18845182

>>18845145
>Synapse creatures should have 4++ against shooting attacks to balance the loss of EW.

No, to balance the loss of Eternal Warriors, Tyranid Warriors and other midweight creatures should be hiked up to T5. Possibly dropped to 2 wounds in the case of Warriors - it's something that'd need to be playtested. Either way, they're immune to most forms of Instant Death which gives them the staying power they need to actually be useful, but the really obscene weapons (st10) or deadly psychic effects (Force Weapons) can still pick them off in one go.

>> No.18845186

>>18845145
I think I would give all of GW head if they would give Tyranids Eternal warrior while in synapse like the good olde days.

My zoans always get one shot by fuckin S8 Autocannon dreads.

>> No.18845187

>>18844596
>>auto-win grenades
They may be useful, but they're far from auto-win. Assuming you get assaulted by someone with them(all of 3 IC's, 2 of them terminators) only 2, maybe 3, are all that useful.

Purifiers can nuke hordes pretty effectively, but only if you're crazy enough to assault/get assaulted by them.

>> No.18845222

>>18845157

But here's the thing, the syphon has to be within 12'' of the Tau unit and you get two at most, which costs you both your HQ slots.

Fireknife Crisis Suits can get away from that, deathrains don't give a shit, railguns don't give a shit, fusion blasters don't give a shit. Not to mention all of these (and even rail rifles and plasma rifles) will instagib the inquisitor.

Pulse weaponry had not been a Tau mainstay for years before the GK codex came out. It doesn't really change anything.

>> No.18845225

I will forever rape Tyranids with Imperial Guard.
The codex is utter shit, but a well-built 'nid list will obliterate everything in the game.
That's not the Guard.
'Nids have one weakness, fundamentally; They have to outnumber their opponent. And when your opponent matches every warrior in your army with a tank?
That's when shit gets reaaalll.

So yeah. Also, learn to spam Trygons. They're probably your best HS option.

>> No.18845268

>>18845187

In the adepticon semi-final round, a wraith squad took out a purifier squad with a Grandmaster w/ psychotrokes&rads and Coteaz attached. It can indeed be done.

>> No.18845286

>>18845131
Yup.

Game was Seize Ground, Pitched Battle Deployment at 1,500 points.

Highlights include Reavers and 3 Venoms leaving him with 2 of 18 Longfangs alive T1, his troops leaving their Rhinos to assault the bikes, then Incubi, Archon, and assorted rape piling out to murder his troop choices. He looked around the board on the top of 3 then forfeited.

Afterwards, I helped him assemble his new Thunderwolf Cav and he bought me a meatball sandwich. Life was good that day.

...thanks for turning me on to Reavers with Caltrops, by the way. They've been really, really helpful.

TL;DR: Listen to the Fangirl. It knows what it speaks of.

pic is Strange's list in 2010. The portals were Mycetic Spores.

>> No.18845427

>>18845079
>BA fast vehicles and lumbering behemoth are not "answers to rulebook problems", they are rules to make certain units unique and fun, and those units also pay the penalty for, BA rhino chassis vehicles pay 15 point premium for fast etc.

You're a fucking idiot if you don't think Lumbering Behemoth is there specifically to let IG tanks operate how vehicles should be operating! The ENTIRE GODDAMN REASON Lumbering Behemoth came into being, was because an IG fanboy developer said "bawww 5e doesn't let my gun-ladden tanks move and fire to any degree! I know, I make rule that slows them down and lets them fire main-gun as well as all others!". It's one of the many, many shitty rules in 5e designed to circumvent problems with the core rules. Fast BA vehicles are as well, but you are correct in that they pay a paltry 15 extra points for their tanks to do so. Oh sure, that matters for the transport spam... but 15pts is cheap for Vindicators or Baal Preds.

>Psychotroke Grenades are balanced and come on expensive HQ's or single wound IC's that take slots from some of the better units in the codex
If they were +50pts then you might actually have an argument about them being balanced. But they're not, they're a relatively cheap upgrade to a low-cost IC (or an HQ you'll be taking anyways), and allow the unit to effortlessly win combat against damned near anything.

Nobs in contrast are a unit that abuses the 5e core rules through an oversight due to shitty game design. The Wound-Allocation Abuse units are universally hated by me, no matter which army they are in. They are not a gimmick, but are certainly fucking ridiculous and one of the reasons I hate 5e. You will find no argument from me if you wish to complain about them.

>> No.18845475

>>18845225
Trygons are not really that good of a unit when they always, inevitably, without fail, totally, definitely, 100 percent of the time, get shot to pieces on the turn that they appear.

Doesn't matter if you deep-strike, start with them on-table, have 3 of them, houserule so creed can outflank them in a doubles match, have 4 of them in an all-vehicle/monstrous creature match with baneblades, titans and stompas on the field. They ALWAYS become the top of the opponent's this-thing-must-die list. A waste of about 200 points or whatever, at least in my experience.

>> No.18845501

>>18845286
>TL;DR: Listen to the Fangirl. It knows what it speaks of.
only so far as sisters or nids are concerned.

>> No.18845564

>>18845286
>Reavers and 3 Venoms leaving him with 2 of 18 Longfangs alive T1

Aaah, that's what I like to hear. Space Wolves getting a good kicking always warms my heart. I'd be curious to see whether he seems more open to playing with less competitive lists now that he's had a sound beating at his own game.

>> No.18845637

>>18845427

As I said, the Lumbering Behemoth is an attempt to make Leman Russes more unique and different from other tanks, including IG tanks. It is not game breaking and Russes will take back seat in most tournament lists to units that do not have it. The Russes pay for LB by costing loads of points and since they're BS3 their shots are not all that reliable.

Fast rhino chassis has been a BA theme and they too pay a premium for the privilege. 15 points is over 10% increase even in the case of predators and vindicators, it is significant and balanced with SM equivalents. If fast vindicators were best in HS slot they'd actually appear in BA lists as often as Long Fangs appear in SW lists, which is not the case.

>If they were +50pts then you might actually have an argument about them being balanced

I have an argument now and it's a good one. They come with expensive HQ's that either can't be transported in rhinos/razorbacks or take slots from purifiers. By no means are they autowin, never mind worth 50 points.

I don't know where you got the idea that I'm complaining about 5th edition nobs. I'm saying that you're whining about having to ask things or knowing what things do in tabletop, and that your argument about psychotrokes boils down to "I didn't know that unit can do that". Which is what a bad player who can't distinguish nobs form boyz during 3e would say about 3e nobs.

As for game mechanics, psychotroke-carriers obviously aren't overpowered or best choice for the slot. If they were, it would show in lists (again SW and long fangs are a good example).

>> No.18845710

I know I'll be getting some "lawl you fail" and variant rages from this but I play space puppies and I don't consider them to be an "auto-win" race. I find myself being beating by Vanilla marines and fast zeno's armies (I.E eldar/dark) and don't get me started on Grey Knights.
Yes we excel at close combat, its a widely used army in the tournament scene and the codex contains cheese, of which I try and avoid. But I don't enjoy making the cheesy "fuck you i win" lists. My friend plays DE and beats me 50% of the time. This is probably due to me avoiding strong cheese lists,(and I can't roll for shit) but I thoroughly enjoy them for their fluff and make my lists based on fluff.

>> No.18845746

>>18845564
The wolf list doesn't look to be changing, 'cept to include Thunderwolves at higher point values.

That said, he's starting a Draigowing army that looks like:

Draigo
Librarian

Two units of Paladins

Stormraven

1 Psyfileman Dread
(Additional 'dreads to get to higher point levels)

It's not Coteaz or Purifier spam, and he considers it to be the fluffiest thing since Pomeranians. Maybe it's a step in the right direction?

>> No.18845825

>>18845710
Space Wolves have a huge number of fun, cool, and playable units. IMO, There's nothing wrong with Space Puppies... or any other 'cheesy' 'dex for that matter.
provided.

It was more a problem of attitude and getting over the myth of invincibility I'd created in my own head. I'd convinced myself that playing against this guy was a foregone conclusion, and that made my games against him less fun.

>> No.18845879

OP here, I see my thread has gotten side tracked
Thanks to all who gave me some productive feed back and didn't rage all over my thread.
I probably will invest in them since I'm into "Fun" armies. Not "win" armies. Were that the case I wouldn't have made this thread and instead would just buy GK

>> No.18845884

>>18845637
>As I said, the Lumbering Behemoth is an attempt to make Leman Russes more unique and different from other tanks, including IG tanks.

3e IG codex: no unique move/fire rules for the Russ.
3.5/4e IG codex: again no unique move/fire rules for the Russ. Defensive Weapons are now specified as Str 6 or less (3.5 Trial Vehicle Rules were Str 5 or less). Russ can move and fire 1 main gun and all heavy bolters, or just Ordnance.
5th edition hits with it's "pillbox guntanks", making defensive weapons Str 4 or less. Suddenly a special rule is needed that slows down the Russ and allows it to fire more weaponry while on the move, as well as not count the main-gun Ordnance for purposes of firing weapons.

That is a direct circumvention of 5e's shitty pillbox-guntank rules. And nothing but. Whether or not the Russ is a 'tournament competitive' choice has no bearing on LB, because the Russ is already hamstrung in competitive environments due to melta, lance, and CC attacks hitting rear armor. Competitive value has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on LB being a rule for the sake of special unit rules, for the sole purpose of circumventing bad written core rules.

>> No.18845917

>>18845879
>I probably will invest in them since I'm into "Fun" armies
personally I'm more interested in "Fun" games, which is why I don't play 40k anymore.

>> No.18845941

>>18845746
Switch out the Librarian and Storm Raven for Venerable dreads and that's what I usually use.

The thing with Grey Knights is that unless you bring full March of the Ancients and don't mix and match commanders, the list is going to be fluffy because:

A. none of the Brotherhoods(minus 1st and 2nd) have a set makeup
B. 1st and 2nd tend to lend their guys out like 1st company does in regular chapters
C. Dreads are scarce among Grey Knights

>> No.18845974

So, OP, what are you thinking about doing for a list? Are there any models in particular that strike your fancy?

>> No.18846023

If you like lukewarm fluff, no conversion or counts as opportunities, and are looking more for a game than a hobby Warmachine is actually pretty good.

Also, significantly cheaper than 40k.

>> No.18846049

>>18845884

>3e
>4e

As hard as it could be for you to fathom, GW can balance codices and revise their ideas about how certain units should work. One ordnance tank is not equal to another in fluff, and thus it is plausible to add such a rule to Russ. If it was an attempt to "get past restrictions", Space Wolf vindicators would have it too. But it actually isn't, and has everything to do with game balance. Why pay a premium for a static BS3 ordnance platform when you have basilisks and stuff - hell Russes were shit in 4e but basilisks were around.

You've not been exactly showing any capacity of knowing about game balance though, so keep ranting about meaningless shit. 4e had some contenders for gimmicks, so that you may know what actually is one. Blessed hulls were designed to fuck up two xeno armies and nothing more. Those were removed for a good reason.

Core rules for 5th edition concerning ordnance are working fine, and those units that get leniency are of the weaker sort. That's called balancing. You see lumbering behemoth on a Manticore? Does Manticore exist in the same army as Russ? Does Manticore get taken more often than Russ?

>> No.18846082

>>18843969
Doom isn't laughably overpowered any more. The Errata that you get cover saves from his drain and the clarification that you cannot drain units in transports held his cheese at bay. Plus send enough rockets (or GK Rifleman Dreads) his way (or one lucky one) and he's gone. Not saying he's bad but he's not OP

>>18843969
Not to be a bubble burster but I'm pretty sure you can't allocate wounds on to the squad. They specifically tell you that if one model takes an upgrade they all take it. Therefore they are the same models and when you take wounds they simply all go on to one model until it is dead and continues.

As to OP's questions:
I have played against them, and with their new codex have never lost to them. (Nid player converted to SW, sorry lol)

I used to run them, not too impressive. They're mid tier, lower if you listen to people bitch about them enough.

Strengths? They have some really good units.
Weaknesses? They have SOME really good units. And some of which are congested into a single FoC slot.

No room for stories on this post. Sorry.

Carnifexes are NOT what they used to be.

>> No.18846411

>>18845974

Was lookin at playing a sort of elite-ish list.
Genestealers
Warriors
Hive Guard
Raveners
Some MC's
Tyrant or Tervigon

>> No.18846505

>>18845974

And I suppose models that "strike my fancy" are the Lictors, the new hive tyrant and tervigon plastic kits and....well I actually really like all the models
Would also like to make my own broodlord

>> No.18846550

>>18845222
As I said, it's not a versatile or even threatening piece of wargear. It's just the sheer fact that the FAQ was so clearly anti-Tau. It'd be like if you could buy a melee weapon like a plow or something for a Deathstrike missile launcher that instantly destroyed any Eldar vehicle it touched. Sure it's useless, but why the fuck did it have to be that specifically aimed at a single army?

>> No.18846589

Skit on their troops and what to do regarding them. People are most confused with them.

Carnifexes are great, they're more balanced than straight melee or firepower. Like a balanced dreadnought, but you charge with three and with the melee rules only one needs to be in contact for all three to get their full attacks. Before MC's used to get in each others way as solo creatures. Now that squad rule is there and they can wipe entire squads of storm shield terminators without being picked off one by one.

Same deal as imperial guard leman russes, a single russ won't have drawbacks of being in a squadron / one carnifex can be mycetic spore deep strike into enemy lines. But you have have 9 of either of them if you want to.

Codex runs fine. It's just really expensive to change themes with tyranids since you almost have to buy a whole new force to do so. All their units are very mono-capable.

>> No.18846601

>>18846550

I agree completly. It's a total "fuck you noob" weapon *blanelty* directed at Tau. It's as if when making the codex they realised "aw fuck, plasma sure will fuck us up and them pesky ranged Tau could chew us up at range. Hmm ok fuck them then"
MAREEENS RUULE! WOOO!

>> No.18846628

>>18846550

On the other hand, FAQ proved that GW is shifting to a more fluff-based approach in their rulings, and is also defining weapon groups pretty decently. Another example is the definition of what is daemonic and affected by anti-daemon measures - not just the models with daemon special rule but Obliterators, Possessed, CSM princes and Mandrakes.

>> No.18846634

>>18846601
Hell, I'd be fine with plasma siphon if it still affected actual plasma weapons, just not Pulse (Carbines, rifles, burst cannons). I don't have an issue with specialized wargear, but I do when it's aimed specifically at a single army and affects a large portion of the available weapons for the army.

>> No.18846706

>>18846634

I agree. They found a chink in their armour so they "fixed" it without any reguard to balance and I suppose "race sensitivity" for lack of a better term
I play daemons so dont get me started with Daemonbane
Yesh I get it! They're GK but don't punish me as a player for choosing Daemons for fuck sakes.

>> No.18846714

>>18846706

At least Blessing of the Blood God is useful now.

>> No.18846799

>>18846714

/indeed

>> No.18848635

>>18844943

That, that. Fuck man, I don't even...

>> No.18850582

Speaking of Grey Knights...

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