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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.18339206 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

How long does it take a devastated Chapter to rebuild?

A chapter can rebuild as long as there one apothecary alive, right?

>> No.18339230

3-7 arbitrary plot units.

>> No.18339235

Dunno, but if Space Hulk is correct the Blood Angels were reduced to 50 members total at one point.

They seem to have recovered. In contrast, the Tiger Claws came back from the warp with about 1 company and it was ruled insufficient for them to rebuild (probably something else going on there too). But certain things need to be in place, not just an apothecary but his lab/medicae, as well as a recruit source, warp travel source, etc... a lone apothecary could theoretically build a chapter but the logistics are another issue.

>> No.18339297

the Blood Angels, as a loyal former legion, probably wern't allowed to collapse. In that case they may have drawn from the 2nd founding chapters to rebuild the core of the chapter

>> No.18339314

If destroying the geneseed hurts a space marine chapter this much, why aren't the enemies of man doing it more often.

>> No.18339325

Say, when a chapter starts or otherwise has massive experience problems, can it draw temperory members from other willing chapters?

How does that work out?

>> No.18339336

whatever the case, they were up and running 600 years when the Sin of Damnation came rolling around

>> No.18339358

Doesn't the AdMech store a considerable number of Gene-Seeds from the Legions to create new chapters? I guess they could rely on that if one of the more important chapter (HURR ULTROMORONS) is strongly decimated.

>> No.18339368

because apothecaries retrieve it on the battlefield, even before power armor. geneseed is as high up on the list as like terminators and dreadnoughts

and generally the geneseed vaults are the best-defended holdings of a chapter

>> No.18339373

Because we as players ten to assume that everyone in the games knows what we knows and it's a big mistake.
Most people don't know shit about anything. You start learning slowly as you climb the ladder and you've got to be pretty high on the food chain to know some secret.

>> No.18339406

I recall this having happened a few times.

>> No.18339430

The Chaos legions, the Eldar, and the Necrons know. Each of them are capable of seriously harming a chapter if they wish it.

>> No.18339439 [DELETED] 

They'll make a Day 1 DLC that will allows you to use Boo as a battle companion, complete with "Go for the eyes" and everything.

He'll be able to carry just as much stuff as Morte from PS:T, and has more hitpoint than all of the casters combined.

>> No.18339456


I assume this was meant to go to that Baldur's Gate thread?

>> No.18339480




>> No.18339487

I think that there are a lot of things that need to be taken into consideration here.

Firstly it's more a case of who survived the said devastation, rather than how many. If the Chapter Master, some Librarians, Apocatheries, Techmarines and a lot of Veterans are still alive and kicking, then the essence and know-how of the Chapter still exists and they can rebuild. However, if the survivors are some ragtag bunch from the support companies and the majority of their veterans and essentials are dead, then the Chapter has very little chance of rebuilding.

Then there's the question of logistics. Do they still possess means of recruitment? Have they managed to salvage their Arms, Armor and Geneseed? Can they rely on being supplied? If not, again, there's no hope of rebuilding.

Then we have how influential the Chapter is. A big-name Chapter that has a lot of allies among other Chapters and the Higher-ups (Inquisition, Mechanicus, maybe even some Lords of Terra etc.) in the Imperium has a good chance of rebuilding. For example, say the Crimson Fists suffer some devastating defeat, they could propably rely on getting support and recruits from Imperial Fists, Black Templars and other "relative" chapters.
But if some fairly new, low-key Chapter gets pulped.. You get the picture.

And so, if all aforementioned conditions are met, then a Chapter that has been reduced to say, 100 Marines, will propably take anywhere between 300-600 Years to rebuild to the same numbers they had before their loss.

>> No.18339513

>say the Crimson Fists suffer some devastating defeat

I ddon't think we need to be hypothetical about it with these guys.

>> No.18339516

Necrons know about gene-seed?

>> No.18339529

What happens to the survivors if the chapter can't rebuild?

>> No.18339538

Most likely absorbed into another chapter.

>> No.18339539



>> No.18339543


I don't actually know what usually happens, but at least in one of the Iron Warrior stories (the ones about Honsou) one of his underlings was from the dead Wolf Brothers chapter.

>> No.18339546

They retire and end up in some timeshare on Necromunda.

>> No.18339564

I have an image in my head of a chapter master and a hand full of apothecaries + a few veterans in a fortress monastery on a small planet slowly regaining forces for hundreds of years until they are large enough to make a massive, gusto filled campaign with the whole chapter. They promptly get reduced to tiny numbers again and the process starts anew.

>> No.18339621

Which enemy faction has the most confirmed ''chapter kills''?

I'm guessing the Necrons, right?

>> No.18339649

>I'm guessing the Necrons, right?
What? No, Necrons awakened only recently. I'm guessing Chaos (not even counting corrupted chapters, then it's Chaos for sure).

>> No.18339695


In this case, you should also consider Orkz. Yes, they allways are portrayed as cannon fodder in SM fluff, but their sheer numbers will make battles between them and the Marines much more numerous.

Then again, there's allways the Horus Heresy...

>> No.18339712

No Chapter (legion) got destroyed in that though.

If anyone, I'd say it would be the Inquisition.

>> No.18339743

Even if the Orks knew about gene-seed, I don't think they'd really give a shit about it. They might even let them KEEP it, because it makes da 'umies bigga an' 'arda an' more fun to fight.

>> No.18339813

Then again they might eat it.

>> No.18339827

I'd buy that for a dollar. And the chance to (safely) observe the results.

>> No.18339842

In Dawn of War 2, One of the Orks made a comment about cleaning out the space marines guts from their armor.

>> No.18339855

Oh hey, White Scars.

>> No.18339905


>> No.18339911


Because, when it comes down to it, the Space Marines rarely matter. They're awesome and competent fighters, and all that, but if you massed all the space marines together in one place, and pitched them against the entirety of the imperial navy or guard, the marines would be slaughtered in a heartbeat. Few marine chapters are actually significant enough to merit a dedicated attempt to dismantle them, especially when one considers that you can often evade them completely, or bait them to their destruction by invading something rather less ferociously defended than their gene seed stores.

>> No.18339917

Ultramarines: lost first company, and pretty much all their vehicles. 400~ years.
Lamenters: lost the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and tenth company. Splintered into two. One half, veterans and all rare gear. The other, all armor and remaining battlebrothers. Still not rebuilt, over 200 years later.
Blood angels: lost everybody, pretty much. 1000 years.
Grey knights: lose 'companies' constantly, but their recruiting lets them almost always maintain in excess of 1000 marines.

In other words, it takes a really, really long time to rebuild, and even more if what you lost is tied to the first company.

>> No.18339919

That's because he wants to try it on.

>> No.18339936

All chapters are required to send some gene-seeds to the AdMech who check it for purity and. In case of emergency, the AdMech can send some of the gene seed back to the chapter, but it's not alot. A gene seed takes 10-15 years to mature but they can be planted in anyone (although just who they're planted in tends to affect the quality of the gene seed). Extrapolating the numbers, it may take decades, or centuries for a legion to recover it's numbers. In which case, the chapter may be disbanded and the members transfered out to other chapters.

There are other concerns as well. Imperial manufacturing methods are rather, what's the word, shitty. You've got untrained workers building machines which they have no idea how they work. You've got a limited number of highly trained workers who guard their secrets religiously. You've got millions of worlds all making their own version of the same weapon with little to no standardization.

Support personnel need to be trained, weapons and armor need to be manufacture, and equipment may need to be redesigned altogether as the original blueprints cold very well be lost.

>> No.18339980


Successor chapters have a right to call upon the parent legion for assistance, which they'll never deny, but not everybody's ultramarine generous, or have the dark angels' gigantic stock of gear to just hand out.

Donated marines are absorbed into their new chapter, as is gear, but really valuable things are allowed to keep parts/all of their original colors.

>> No.18339997

They lost nearly 4 brotherhoods worth at once back before they only had 1000 at any given time, but then again they are also able to replace their losses much faster than common marines are too.

>> No.18340027

zactly, from what i've read even losing a suit of power armour is a huge loss for a chapter, they can make new ones but they'll never be as good and often are still made from salvaged materials.

Terminator armour on the other hand is irreplaceable. But it's probably some strange component like the materials used to create the fibre bundles that makes it so hard to replace.

I'd imagine they might have the knowledge to make the armour but lack the knowledge the make the materials that make the components that make the armour.

>> No.18340032

No one knows the true number of Grey Knights as far as I know. Apart from crappy fan made encyclopedia are there any solid non-fan anf canon sources to confirm that?

>> No.18340047


If they have a fortress, command structure, and veterans, rebuilding is easy.

That's why the crimson fists were able to recover faster than the ultramarines, despite taking numerically heavier losses.

>> No.18340058

I think it was said somewhere it takes 55 years to rebuild a chapter, mainly because of the gene-seeds that have to be harvested, and all.

>> No.18340064

Let's not forget that of the original 20 geneseeds only what 3 or 4 are still pure.
Most are diluted to shit (Raven Guard), flawed (Imperial Fists), mutated (Space Wolves) or chaos'd (every traitor legion)

>> No.18340073


The codex says there are about 1000 battle-brothers (terminators), 30 commanders/other important people, and maybe 80 each of purifiers, purgators, and paladins, plus a huge librarian cult and techmarine presence.

So more than 1k, but probably not more than 1500.

>> No.18340077

Every Crux Terminatus holds a fragment of the Emperor's own armour. It doesn't really get a lot harder to replace than that.

>> No.18340086

The current codex says 8 roughly company-sized brotherhoods, the Paladin Brotherhood(no numbers given, but likely around 50), and the Purifier Brotherhood(between 40 and 70). The old lexicon article said 7000, I believe, but they rarely cite a source.

I thought it was the Administratum on Terra, not the Mechanicus, that oversees geneseed purity.

>> No.18340109

yeah true.
but technically i think the Terminator armour would still work without the fragment, it's just no one would ever want to use it and the AdMech would freak the fuck out.

>> No.18340112


Terminator armor is hard to make, because the surgery and manufacturing facilities are complicated.

Spare parts are in very, very short supply, and a dedicated world could probably not make more than 10 a year.

>> No.18340127

IIRC, they can make new parts for Terminator armor, but the cost is so great and the process so painstaking that they prefer to just cobble together bits from old suits that don't work anymore. The Crux Terminatus is probably the only truly irreplaceable part, and the loss of one generally results in a penitent crusade to get it back (or avenge its loss).

Standard power armor seems to be easier to replace, each chapter has enough suits for every single one of its members. Even the Scouts; they have to graduate at some point.

>> No.18340135

No its the Mechanicum, they are tithed the geneseed and they monitor and grow others. Have you read Storm of Iron? One of the only places that has massive stores of geneseeds were in a empty and desolate world under Mechanicums command with a demi titan legion and what not. They have a big part in the Procurment, production and purity of geneseeds to see that new chapters are founded and mauled ones are rebuilt given the right situation.

>> No.18340142

I thought the Crux was an essential component in the whole energy field thingy.
>essential components
>everything would work fine with half the parts removed but NO IT IS HOLY STOP DOING THAT
For instance Heavy Bolters can be stripped down to almost nothing and they still work as well as ever

>> No.18340144

nope they stated in the old fluff that Terminator armour cannot be made at all.
there is only that many suits.
some worlds can make spare parts but no one in the imperium can make a new full working set.

Theoretically there would be a few components that can't be reproduced so a suit could be made useless by some really unlucky damage.

>> No.18340161

This does open up the question of where the Ordo Malleus gets their non-Astartes Terminator suits.

>> No.18340164

Rumored to contain. And it's only inside the terminator crux terminus. Now, not even all terminator armours have this, so it's worth is questionable at best. It doesn't do anything.

Who ever came up with that idea should be fed to a hive tyrand through its ass.

That's like the church making swords with small fragments of the True Cross inside the pommel for "I dunno, lol" reasons.

>> No.18340168

I wonder wether its easier to be in a Chaos Legion regardless of the horrors of the warp, would you still have a ton of equipment in backlog from the Days of the Crusade what with the whole IMperium geared toward arming the Legions and Armies of the Emps. I am sure they dont have issues like Imperium does.

>> No.18340174


Your average space marine knows how to maintain and repair his power armor, and will wear the same base for his entire career, with honor parts from other suits grafted to it as he earns esteem.

They're made to specifications by the chapter's techmarines and artificers, by hand, to fit each new marine.

If they were forgeworld produced, they'd have less problems keeping spares, but that'd probably not work too well, since marines differ so much between chapters.

>> No.18340189

Well if the cross fragments made the sword wielders capable of deflecting nukes, yes they would probably do that.
Then again any random IG officer can get their hands on that same nuke-deflecting kit in the form of a little necklace thing, so yeah.

>> No.18340192


Yes, but only the hardy stuff's survived, or is even in common use. Terminators, dreads, bolters, autocannons, rhinos, land raiders, so on.

>> No.18340201

One major flaw in the Terminator suits cannot be built / contain the Emperor's armour - Terminators were around when the Emperor was alive too, so all Crux suits are post-heresy.

>> No.18340205

according to some fluff, if you're a chaos space marine, the equipment you have is the equipment you get. There's no innovation, there's no new tech. there are daemon weapons and shit like that, but there's no new, more advanced gear.

>> No.18340207

>If every piece of the Emperor's armour were gathered up and put together the Emperor would stand X high, have X limbs and 4 heads

>> No.18340209

Most likely redesigned from old space suits. I mean I remember reading that Terminator Armour was primarily inspired by the massive hazard and Sealed protection suits used by starship crew in plasma containers and reactors to withstand the pressures and heat of the place. So I am sure adding a few extra plates of reactive armour isnt that hard if you have the money, which the INquisition especially the Malleus would have in a large supply. Plus you have to remember there are certain worlds where tech is far more advanced and abundant that in the rest of the imperium, it is a like a mish mash of everything and nothing all at once, you just need the resources to find what you need and get it.

>> No.18340211

>stated in the old fluff

Well there's your problem. Can't remember anything like that said anywhere else. Sure, they're rare, but they do make them. There not a single vital component in a terminator armour that can't be produced.

>> No.18340221

I remember being told about the Doom Eagles.

How they were slaughtered to one captain, who reported in to an inquisitor missing most of the left side of his torso. When asked if he was fit to serve he said he'd had worse...

The humorous situation aside, what would have happened to THAT chapter, with just the one guy.

>> No.18340232


All sources since 4th edition says the same thing.
You can make it just fine, but it's a very slow, complicated, and expensive process, like making endo-steel in battletech.

Grey knights likely have so much terminator armor, because they've got a special forgeworld and their own machine-cult dedicated to keeping them supplied with the really hardcore stuff, while ultramarines won't have either, so must rely on the limited output of, say, the salamanders, or some nearby forgeworld that can make 5 suits a year.

>> No.18340234

Wasn't the old fluff on terminator armor that the reason for the invult save was that the armor is just that thick?

Its probably made on the same forgeworld as all the Grey Knight's armor. They give everyone both regular and terminator armor, plus even the newer chapters have terminator armor, so there are at least a few places(Mars and other similarly developed planets) that can make it.

>> No.18340235

One guy promoted to Deathwatch / Inquisitorial retinue. Chapter declared dead.

>> No.18340243

They would send him home where he will be hunted by the local arbites and chased into the woods, where he will proceed to slaughtereveryone because "They drew FIRST BLOOD!"

>> No.18340246


Black shield, or assigned to another devastated chapter. It would take forever to rebuild from just one marine.

>> No.18340266

Would the mechanicus not have geneseed storage of that chapter left over to at least have a go at a mass restock?

>> No.18340270

Worse than taking forever, the entire chapter would be one geneseed flaw away from Flame Falcons levels of catastrophic failure. With only one base geneseed you're running an insane risk of accidental mutation and if it happens, the whole chapter is done for.

>> No.18340304

GKs just give one big middle finger to the whole deal. They own one of Mars' moons and have direct access to Xenos heretech. Their suits do not have Cruxes and date back to before the Emperor died. Their job is to slap daemon shit, and if getting that done means telling the Admech to shove their holy construction prayers up their metal asses, then so be it.

>> No.18340310

>Somewhere on Mars...

>"%$#@! Another Gene-seed stock-take... there goes my weekends..."

>> No.18340311


They store the original legion geneseed, because it's not as diluted as what you get from successors, but successor geneseed can be used to make more marines, too.

If the chapter in question is really just marine chapter MXXXVVII, they'll declare it dead, or merge it with someone else, then tell the parent legion to offer support, while they start rebuilding it.

>> No.18340328

Compare Murder and Tyrant class ships. Murder has superior plasma cannon batteries, which the Imperium can't produce nor maintain, yet Chaos can.

Infidel class escort, I believe (it was one of the 3) is built by mixing human and xenos tech and sports pretty fancy guns for a ship its size.

Kai gun, though, well, it's not really a thing anymore.

That Iron Warrior thing, where they feed gene-seeds and people into a machine, and it produces Marines ready for battle.

Then how do pre-Heresy, Chaos or non-Marine terminators get their 5+ Inv. save?

I tell you how, because the fragment, which is just rumored, doesn't do shit. The 5+ Inv. save comes from the fact that terminator armour is just that tough. The user will die before the armour breaks. In Storm of Chaos a Chaos terminator was shot at close range by a plasma weapon, and while the outer layers of his armour melted, and he felt the heat inside the armour, no real damage was done.

There's no magical shield or Emperor's holy aura there.

>> No.18340337

Quit your moaning Magos, you wouldn't have been doing anything better with your time this weekend anyway.

>> No.18340347

>How long does it take a devastated Chapter to rebuild?
This is my beef with the wh40k franchise.
Let's say a chapter is devastated down to 50% capacity. 500 marines. in ten years they have enough geneseed to restore back to 100% capacity. Ten years after that, they can double that capacity. Ten years after that, they're up to 4,000 marines. ten years after that, 8,000. so on and so forth.
>you're an idiot. there's only a few people that can be turned into a Space Marine.
MATH. Let's say that only 1% of 1% of a planet's population could become a space marine. If the planet's population is 6 billion, then they can easily get 600,000 marines.

Except that it's more like the worlds house trillions, and there are trillions of worlds, yadda yadda yadda, math says MILLIONS OF SPACE MARINES, FOREVER, but game fluff says "lol not really."

>> No.18340397

>You will never hold your mortally wounded battle brother in the middle of the ashes of a burning dead world

>> No.18340406

>"But! But! I was going to spend the weekend examining this new Servitor... She can do this this with her MkA46-Gemini-Theta implants you wouldn't believe!"

>> No.18340407


Actually, if you have the proper mindset, your physical attributes don't really matter. This is how the emprah made so god damn many marines in the olden days, and how GK can outlast the stupid attrition.

The main problem here is, many (most) chapters will have at least one retarded rite you need to complete to be granted full marine status. Like how salamanders force you up into this volcano, so you can kill a dragon lizard with two hammers, and your own naked ass.

They'll have really risky fasting, ritualistic orders for putting in the implants, and maybe won't even use drugs to put the patient to sleep before they start carving into his brain and chest.

Grey knights just tell you to run this gauntlet to castle greyskull. You made it? Here, have this terminator armor. We're gonna turn you into a space marine overnight, too, then you can go kill demons for a year, before you die in battle.

There's also the imperial decree that no chapter may ever number more than 1000 marines. Some don't care, and others just have no control over this, but most do care, because they don't want 10 other chapters busting their shit up for breaking this one vital rule.

>> No.18340422

A marine only produces 2 units worth of geneseed over the course of his service, and out of a planet of billions, there might be a dozen or so people fit enough to be considered to be marines, and most of those will die, leaving maybe 4 or 5 to become marines. Feral and deathworlds have hardier stock and yield more able recruits, but not all chapters have access to them.

Space Wolves are a bit of an exception, but they only recruit from their own feral deathworld and have a much lower level of geneseed waste than the more orthodox method.

>> No.18340443

Didn't Diodedede outrank Angelos at the time, btw?
He was the Honour Guard Captain, where Angelos was just 3rd company.

>> No.18340466

>This is my beef with the wh40k franchise.

Yes, and what happened the last time we had Marine legions in the hundreds of thousands, and one leader went "Chaos, lol"?

1000 isn't because "gene-seeds are hard" but because it's to limit the size of chapters so that when one goes bad, the entire galaxy doesn't have to pay for it. The number of chapters is what it is because they come and go, there's no cap to that, as far as I can tell.


You're forgetting that Marines pick people mostly from feral world, there a few million is a lot. We're talking stone/iron age worlds here. On SW homeworld people get around on wooden sailboats and have swords and axes.

And even then, the limit is 1000, though there are ways around this. Black Templar number in several thousand because they're so wide spread nobody can keep track of their numbers.

>> No.18340474

How long does it take to rebuild a steel rehn?

>> No.18340488

"It was a disaster, we shall never speak of it again"
Hairlord Cyrus of the Blood Ravens 10th Company

I'd say you cant rebuild it if you fuck it up.

>> No.18340501

Most chapters recruit from their own world. Some are more open. Dark Angels, Imperial Fists and Black Templars, I believe, have recruiting stations on several worlds.

>> No.18340514

Yes, Apollo did outrank him but not anymore.

Azariah Angelos is the new head hancho of the Blood Ravens.

>> No.18340543

What the fuck was the deal with the Blood Ravens 1st company anyway? Were they all nurgle warp zombies or something?

>> No.18340551

Dude it's Gabriel (M)Angelos and (filthy dog) Azariah Kyras.

Also this thread gives me ideas for a Black Templar successor chapter or just a general wiped chapter, only the initiates and their masters remain can they care for the entire chapter? Will the novices re-invent what it means to be a SPACE MARINE?

(imagine a reverse Kaurava where only the scouts survived)

>> No.18340561

>lol, sorry guys, but like, I don't know how many dudes we have anymore! No hard feelings, eh?
>well, we have some, mister Helbrecht.
>oh, in that case, I'll send invitations to all the crusades I know of, and we can have a massed barbeque on Mars. That way, you can count them yourself.
>well, uh, no. Just keep killing things, and we'll pretend this conversation never took place.

>> No.18340568

Azariah is a title. They used to have a chapter master called azariah vidya, the great father. Since then all chapter masters have been azariahs, finishing with kyras
Now angelos is master......so......

>> No.18340572

>Black Templars
Doesn't work that way cap'n

>> No.18340577

well space marines are not implanted with gene seed they are implanted with the progenoid glands in the neck and chest.
these glands collect genetic material from the space marines added organs so that the apothecary's can basically create copies of the organs in question. so in a sense as long as there are space marines alive they will retrieve more genetic material. if i remember right its like 30 years for the progenoid to mature enough for extraction of the genetic material, however if the marine is killed the gland itself can be used as a source of genetic material

>> No.18340578

Boreale put the scouts in charge of defending the beacons. It was probably all that faggot Cyrus's fault.

>> No.18340582

Corrupted marines , possessed marines, and Alpha Legion infiltrators.

Kyras and Galen almost corrupted the whole first company save for a few brothers and Apollo.

>> No.18340583

Vidya, who fought a farseer titled "The Joyful" and beat her, then claimed her sword as a prize.
>/v/idya hates fun

>> No.18340587

the swords of dorn are a bt successor chapter

>> No.18340605

And how could you hide that from everyone (Inquisition, other Blood Ravens, etc.)?

>> No.18340607

This amuses me deeply because Thule had those same corrupted as balls 1st company guys help him defend the Relic Vault in Dark Crusade. Then he has the balls to get uppity at me for using corrupted items in Chaos Rising.

>> No.18340618

Yeah, that would be fine
except that Thule after kronus, had a look at the relics there, and found out the secrets of his chapter

then he fucking BURNED them.

>> No.18340623

Kyras told the other ravens to STFU and deal /w it.
The Inquisition was busy looking into things like Angelos freeing a major Daemon, then running off with a notable Malleus artefact weapon, and Thule blowing the Kronus 1st to shit because fuck you he could.
After those two jokers, Kyras hardly even seemed like a potential heretic.

>> No.18340632

Davian Fuel died on Kronus, and was replaced by a similarly named battle brother, Dave Ian Fool. Hence the change in appearance, voice and personality.

>> No.18340661

The best part? There were GREY KNIGHTS on Kronus. And later on Kaurava. Grey fucking Knights, right next to the possessed 1st Company, and they never did anything about it. And neither did the Ordo Malleus after placing the whole chapter on the watch list for varied counts of heresy.

>> No.18340686

>not knowing Azariah Angelos

>> No.18340691

Most chaplains died in the Dark Crusade and the Steel Rain debacle. Also most librarians perished fighting the Hivemind.

So any possible way to detected the taint was lost to the Blood Ravens.

The Blood Ravens had Grey Knights adding them in the Dark Crusade. So the first company guys on Kronus were pure.

>> No.18340706

So where the hell was Toth during Retribution?
He knew Angelos in person, and yet was nowhere to be seen when Malleus sent out a fleet to nuke his home system.

>> No.18340712

>So the first company guys on Kronus were pure.
The Eldar thought otherwise.

>> No.18340728

Not just Grey Knights, Grey Knight Justicars.

My thought was that Kyras kept his "brothers" away from there and instead sent those in 1st company that he was pretty sure would turn on him if he made them the offer in hopes that they would get killed there.

>> No.18340735

7/10, would laugh again.

>> No.18340744

I highly doubt their purity, the reports from the judgement of carrion implied pretty much the entire 1st company and honour guard were corrupted.
Also Galen called down shitloads of traitor Terminators when cornered.

>> No.18340792

Eldar are troll tier

>> No.18340812

They didn't actually mention the First Company, just the Honor Guard. If I recall correctly, Galan seemed to be of the Fifth before he was possessed/promoted - all the dead members of the expedition you find are from the Fifth Company.

>" I, Epistolary Kyras of the Blood Ravens, do bind the daemon Kankeiros into the body of my brother Galan. In so doing I damn my brother's soul and give it unto Ulkair, who is master of Kankeiros. I do so freely as my part in a bargain with that selfsame archfiend. Through him shall we gain release from the confines of this derelict. Let all who gaze upon this text know the power of the Great Unclean One Ulkair."
Years later...

>> No.18340877

>Claiming Blood Ravens relics
>Burning the corpses of Blood Ravens (Geneseed inculded)

I think the Eldar have done this to make sure the Blood Ravens have no reason to return to Kronus.

They wanted the planet for themselves to keep watch over the necron there.

Unless these Grey Knights were stupid or blind, they would not miss the corruption festering in the Blood Ravens.

Or Perhaps Ulkair rot was so subtle the Grey Knights could not sense it.

It is possible.

Kyras and his retinue arrived after all opposing forces were cleansed from the Planet. Maybe by then the Grey Knights have left the planet.

>> No.18340915

Maledictus > Ulkair

>> No.18340977

>This prison cannot hold me forever. It is cracked and weakened, and its architect now feasts on Nurgle's rotted fruit. Why yes, perhaps I will have Kyras free me from the bonds he forged himself.

Poor Ulkair... He gave Kyras his heart, and the shallow fucker cheated on him with a bigger, more virile daemon.

>> No.18341059

Think about it.

What did Ulkair offer Kyras? love and affection? Disease and filth?

Maledictus offered Kyras true freedom, eternal glory, and the galaxy itself!

Kyras choose wisely.

>> No.18341399

>Swords of Dorn

No such chapter exists. Sons of Dorn do exist, and are an Imperial Fist successor, just like Black Templars.

New chapters are created from one of the original legion gene-seeds. You don't make a successor chapter out of a successor chapter. And even if you did, it would be one of those dark/cursed foundings, and we all know what happened to them.

>> No.18341416

The Blood Angels likely absorbed descendent chapters and borrowed some of their geneseed.

>> No.18341544

I'm pretty sure original legions have whole vaults of gene-seeds stored. After all, it's where new chapters are made.

Tiger Claws might have fallen the victim of pure politics.

Who says they aren't? It's just that 1) it's not common knowledge, 2) locating said gene-seed storages (chapters store part, Admech the rest in undisclosed location(s)), and 3) actually managing to even strike at those vaults.

In Storm of Iron the Iron Warriors fight long and bloody battle and takes great losses, including several companies and titans, just to get their hands on some gene-seeds. And their plan was a success mostly because they had knowledge what the place was for (not even the defenders knew, let alone the Marines that came to their assist) and had knowledge of the defences (their primarch had designed it).

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