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[ERROR] No.18079740 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So the cleric, do you want him to be able to wear armor or just cloth?

I prefer the cloth type cleric personally. I you want to play a heavy armored holy man play a paladin.

>> No.18079745

Why don't they fucking wear leather.

>> No.18079779

>>18079740
fair enough, but more options is always good in RPGs.

>> No.18079781

>>18079745
Because your deity is your armor

>> No.18079784

>>18079781
I guess my problem is that I just want to be a sneaky priest.

>> No.18079814

>>18079784
Take vow of poverty.
Run around naked.

>> No.18079818

It's spelled out in the fluff that a Cleric isn't just a priest, he's a militant one, his job is to go around and enforce the will of his god. It makes sense(to me) that he would learn to use weapons and armor to better fight his god's enemies. A Paladin isn't a champion of a god, he's a champion of Good, who often happens to worship a god.

>> No.18079834

>>18079818
A paladin is a holy crusader, crusading in the name of his or her deity, and a divine spellcaster. Though paladins are typically considered lawful good, evil paladins and those of non-lawful alignments can exist, though all paladins must be of the exact alignment of their patron deity. All paladins are expected to be a paragon of their alignment and a model for others of their faith.

>> No.18079848

The cleric is the paladin, but better at everything.

>> No.18080112

Why not both? Armour is expensive, but if you are travelling and fighting you would be stupid not to wear it.

>> No.18080152

Armor over robes is the best way to proclaim your diety, letting the enemy know whose minions it was just bashed his head in.

>> No.18080201

>>18079834

>Implying anyone who LIKES to roleplay would ever touch Hasbro Adventure Playset…

>> No.18080219

>>18080201
Here, have a dose of 'Not Being a Fucking Idiot'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRZ1CYYIsCg

>> No.18080232

Clerics should be clothies. A cleric in plate is a fucking paladin.

>> No.18080235

>>18080201
Is that a stab at 4e, or D&D in general.
Just because, you know, we need to specifically know why we're ignoring you.

>> No.18080246

>>18080235
4e and 3e, I assume. All WotC versions.

>>18080232
I kind of agree, at least as far as D&D goes. They've gotten pretty redundant.

>> No.18080276

>The cleric is the paladin, but better at everything.
quoted for truth

>> No.18080355

>>18079740
>So the cleric, do you want him to be able to wear armor or just cloth?

That depends. Is he going into battle, or not? If he is, then he should be wearing armor. The only people who fight unarmored are peasants, conscripts, and other disposables. Asking if he should be using armor is like asking if he should be carrying a weapon.

(Unarmored soldiers did not become common on modern battlefields because weapons technology exceeded defensive technology. They became common because of the replacement of small, professional armies with masses of minimally-trained conscripts. When you have an unlimited supply of warm bodies, it doesn't make sense to waste steel on armoring them. With the return to professional armies, you have seen a return to armor in the battlefield. American soldiers in Iraq notably wore battle dress that could absorb gunshots from AK-47s and allow them to continue fighting: more Americans were killed by rocket launchers than by rifles in the invasion, despite guns being far more common.)

>> No.18080387

>>18080355
>Asking if he should be using armor is like asking if he should be carrying a weapon.
Well, maybe he isn't using a weapon. If he's a cleric, it's not so unthinkable that he might be diplomancing his foes into submission.

>> No.18080412

>>18080355
Man just for this post I'm going to play my next character who wears no discernible protective gear and yet has a seriously high AC through nonmagical means.

Enjoy!

>> No.18080426

>>18080412
>wears no discernible protective gear and yet has a seriously high AC
>implying that high AC doesn't make you easier to hit

Oh anon.

>> No.18080473

>>18079740

It's not about what you fucking prefer.

Knights in the middle ages didn't wear armor because it was pimpin' stylish. It's a war gear. You just don't go to war without it. Does your adventure demands that your cleric must wear armor? Then you put some fucking armor on. You're going to preach the word of god to little children in a quaint and peaceful village? Then you wear as much cloth as you like.

>> No.18080489

>>18080473
What is fantasy?

>> No.18080508

>>18080473
Nah.
It's always down to two things.
Deity's preference, and what's most aesthetically pleasing.
The two not having to be mutually exclusive of course.
For example, Sune's clergy are expected to wear sexy and revealing cloth (with excessive use of the color red) when not in battle, but when expected to be on the war lines they're supposed to wear the heaviest armor they can find so as to protect their immense beauty.
Aesthetically this might not be the most pleasing, so it can be altered by making sure the armor is gloryborn. That way the armor can look more or less like anything, even potentially covering less than the revealing clothes she normally wears and still confer full benefits of +5 Heavy Fortification Full Plate.

>> No.18080514

>>18080489
So if armor isn't useful at protecting people in your fantasy world, why does it exist? Because it's an incoherent and shallow setting that unthinkingly apes surface elements of disparate derivate works without including any of the background that made them make sense?

>> No.18080557

>>18080473

When your start ignoring some basic rules of reality for the sake of silly wish-fulfillment fantasy you end with things like a party of catboys fighting in school uniform and over-endowed bimbos in chainmail bikini. People interested in quality role-playing make a point of avoiding stuff that compromises suspension of disbelief within their games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

>> No.18080591

>>18080473
Except generic D&D fantasy is a world where divine entities actually exist and routinely empower mortals during combat.

>> No.18080603

>>18080557
>When your start ignoring some basic rules of reality for the sake of silly wish-fulfillment fantasy
Such as the creation and destruction of matter, the ability to summon potentially infinite energy, literally halting time and the movement of all things with no negative repercussions, non-aerodynamic flight...

>> No.18080618

>>18080591

How does this excuse them for wearing armor in any way? Even if this magically makes them much more resistant (which is already starting to sound like a bit of a stretch), armor would only still provide further and meaningful protection.

Look at Space Marines. They wear armor, despite the fact that The Emperor Protects.

>> No.18080625

>>18080618
Because same type bonuses don't stack.
So if your divine power were to give you an armor bonus you could never benefit off of armor unless it's superior to the magic.
And let's face it, armor is never better than spell-based armor.

>> No.18080635

>>18080591
Where the hell does that drawing come from? It's awesome...

>> No.18080641

>>18080603

It's all about that suspension of disbelief.

Magic is more easily accepted by players than chainmail bikini, because it's complex, dangerous, difficult to master and not altogether devoid of challenge. When you see a women fighting in loin cloth your mind just knows that something is up.

Unless of course if you're dumb. And God knows there are plenty of people like that playing games out there.

>> No.18080706

>>18080591
>Machinegun on wrist as backup weapon
>Melee weapon as primary weapon

How could you even BE this stupid?

>> No.18080739

>>18080641
That's a nice defense that. Saying everyone who disagrees is automatically dumb so that you can throw out their argument without another word.

Though on the topic, I find it depends on perspective and presentation (as well as system, but that's another argument).
Sure you see some bimbo running around in mail-bikini the mind immediately goes to the elf-paladin rape stories.

However, I find that when I hear or read of the bikini first, unless otherwise mentioned I immediately think of a large amazonian woman who can crush a man's skull with her barehands and generally falls into the barbarian category of "Too cool for proper armor."

Similarly, when looking at many wizard characters (or god forbid natural casters like Sorcerers) they tend to usually be these young adults or even in their late teens who by their mere existence shows that apparently mastering the arcane and bending reality to be your bitch is a fairly easy task.
Long gone is the day of the wizard who had to be carefully schooled and maintains a rigid handling of his regents and spells so as to not fuck up and blow themselves up.

Of course there are exceptions, and similarly when I first hear "wizard" I prefer to think of the old scholarly man who has trained his whole life for his limited abilities, but more often than not this idea is counted by either what precedes or follows the term.

>> No.18080748

>>18080706
Assuming the character is right handed.

>> No.18080762

>>18080706

Probably because in that setting swords are still viable since everyone follows the logic of anime, AKA blocking bullets with your sword or using some magic shield, AKA full retard. Never the less, I think its a cool picture.

>> No.18080772

>>18080762
Alternatively, some kind of energy shield in the shield?

>> No.18080780

>>18080772

Magic, energy, same I don't gotta explain shit scheme.

>> No.18081070

>>18080762
>some magic shield
Hey Dune did that long before modern anime.

>> No.18081098

>>18080762
Using blades and energy shields in worlds full of guns predates anime all the way back to pulp scifi novellas from before the era of TV.

>> No.18081127

>>18081098

Yeah I'm aware of that but for some reason whenever I imagine sword fighting in a modern or sci-fi setting it's always anime style. My bad.

>> No.18081145

>>18081127
DUNE, you fucktard.
You, and most of this thread, betray your own massive ignorance on the basics of the things you acredit to "anime".

>> No.18081193

>implying energy blades in manga weren't based off of StarWars lightsabers

You people know nothing of anime.

>> No.18081253

>Is he going into battle, or not? If he is, then he should be wearing armor. The only people who fight unarmored are peasants, conscripts, and other disposables.

Pretty much this!

>It's spelled out in the fluff that a Cleric isn't just a priest, he's a militant one, his job is to go around and enforce the will of his god. It makes sense(to me) that he would learn to use weapons and armor to better fight his god's enemies. A Paladin isn't a champion of a god, he's a champion of Good, who often happens to worship a god.

And this!

Always played my clerics in that way. I mean, even if I have Spells and Divine Protection, I don't want to insult my chosen deity by just relying on his/her divine power. If I were a deity I would be pretty much pissed if my clerics are all like "Hurrr, dunnae need armors, my armor is my faith only, my weapunz is my magics, lets go fight nekkid!"
I mean.. if you have some divine being that lends you its power to do miracles and shit, wouldn't it be better not irk it by calling on his/her power just to wipe your ass?

>> No.18081278

>>18081253
That image is the cutest thing ever. What was the name of the artist again?

>> No.18081314

>>18081070
>>18081145

Nobody remembers Dune anymore. These days unrealistic = anime and realistic = western.

>> No.18081337

>>18081314
So, comic books are now anime?

>> No.18081339

>>18081278
Uh, don't remember. They float around /tg/ and /a/ quite oftten though.

>> No.18081350

>>18081337

Yes.

>> No.18081359

>>18081339
>>18081278
Dont wory citizens! I, Man With Google, came to help you and provide source!

http://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=and

>> No.18081439

>>18081359

God bless you, Googleman.

>> No.18081818

>>18081359
Thank you, Google-Man, you saved my life today. I will name my unborn son after you.

>> No.18081847

>>18080473
>hey look, he thinks armor is going to help him!
>hey look, he just drowned trying to catch our unarmored asses.
>Laughingwoodkerns.jpeg

>> No.18082439

A cleric is an archetypal character. That is tends to be a class in class-based systems of which determine what kind of armor one can wear is hardly cause to demand one or the other.

That said, since it's usually D&D that sets the average on this sort of subject and thread, Clerics are proficient with armor, and have the ability to use it without taking huge penalties. That they can is a given with that proficiency, but that they should is not a guarantee.

Armor has some penalties to mobility and stealth. If your adventure or tactics or character concept calls for mobility and stealth, the cleric should consider lighter armor or alternative defenses rather than heavy armor.

If your tactics, adventure, or concept demands heavy armor to guard yourself or to keep up appearances, then by all means do so; that a Paladin is able to use similarly heavy armor doesn't mean that it is exclusively theirs. They get a full BAB and actual class features to work with, lame though they may be before 3.75.

Sometimes the clothy cleric works from the point of fluff; a diplomat in armor isn't the best way to set an ambassador at ease.

>> No.18082506

>>18082439
There are, however, a number of divine 'casting classes, some of which might be better suited to going without armor. Divine 'casting's lack of Spell Failure chance is a good indicator that the character class was intended to be used with armor, and the Cleric, being an individual who takes their faith to places of danger and uncertainty, would probably know the value of not getting stabbed or beaten on a regular basis, and how avoiding harm can benefit one's self and one's efforts to convert the world.

For alternatives, see the Mystic (Dragonlance setting) Favored Soul (Complete Divine) Inquisitor (Pathfinder APG) and Oracle (Pathfinder APG). Any of those four works well as a non-armored cleric; the Mystic is a philosopher and spiritualist, not an agent of a religion. The Favored Soul and Oracle are chosen for their roll; the former doing what they will with their divine gift, and the latter following the path of their unsolicited patron whether they like it or not. For the sneaky, under-handed Cleric, the Inquisitor works just dandy; a bard's spell system and skills with a cleric's spell list and plenty of class features to make the character potent in their own right.

More armor-focused characters would do well to consider tapping into Paladin in one of it's forms, or Crusader if they wish to augment their martial capacity without losing the flavor of their character. Both of these offer full offensive options while still retaining the characterization of a a mortal in service to a divine entity.

>> No.18082595

I know that the original cleric from 1ed was based on the knight templar/ and priests with maces. But for modern fantasy gamers who's biggest source of inspiration is Computer/console gaming its not a big armored dude we think about. It's the white mage type character.

Why not divide it into two different classes instead.
Templar, original cleric.
Priest, cloth wearing buffer/healer

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