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18073784 No.18073784 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

I've heard a lot of talk about how much better 40k was back in the day... so what the hell is the difference, anyway?

No, seriously.

Sum up for me. Both in flavor and gameplay terms - what is the difference between present-day 40k and 1e Rogue Trader 40k?

>> No.18073807
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>> No.18073819
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>> No.18073851
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>> No.18073858

Goofier looking models.
More humour in the fluff.
Gameplay that revolved mostly around epic conflicts between special characters.
Fewer overall unts on the table.
More of a narrative focus.
Less anal retentiveness over WYSIWYG

>> No.18073865
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>> No.18073876
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>> No.18073884
File: 112 KB, 1050x638, gallery_eldar_epicast_falcon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18073884

>I've heard a lot of talk about how much better 40k was back in the day... so what the hell is the difference, anyway?
most of the people who clamour on about that never actually played "back in the day" and have a woefully inaccurate depiction of that time period

>No, seriously.
seriously. Even though I've been playing for almost 2 decades I don't really have a complete grasp on the setting

>Sum up for me. Both in flavor and gameplay terms - what is the difference between present-day 40k and 1e Rogue Trader 40k?
Rogue Trader was more of an RPG.. or skirmish game than it was a wargame.

The tone of the setting was significantly grimmer, interspersed with brief lightheartedness and blatant pop-culture references. People generally forget how oppressively grim and dark it was back then, for some reason

I suggest Downloading Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned. Not only are they great example of old books, they're some of the best fluff for chaos you'll find.

Any of the 2nd Edition codices would also be a good read. The fluff nowadays is pretty much just an evolved (or bastardized) version of that time period

oh, and the models were pretty awful, for the most part

>> No.18073886
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>> No.18073896

>>18073865
DEM PAULDRONS.

>> No.18073923

The Emperor had descendents.

Few and far between, their genetic lineage diluted over the millenia, but occasionally their powers would flare up, and you'd get a Champion of the Emperor, known as a Sensei.

>> No.18073931

>>18073819
53rd Regiment is packing a serious dong.

>> No.18073962

So much has changed I wouldn't know where to start.

Right at the start, even before the Rulebook came out, there was barely anything of what we see today, just a small range of "Space pirate" and alien miniatures.

As things developed, things were sort of similar to now but with none of the massive background of fluff we have now. For example, the Ultramarines weren't a founding legion, the Horus Heresy was written up to justify Imperial units fighting each other, particularly for the "Adeptus Titanicus" game (for titans) which along with "Space Marine" (for troops) game made up the first edition of 6mm Epic. Felt more close to our current time, for example Marines weren't as Superhuman as they are now, and had Field Police to keep them in line.

>> No.18073967
File: 2.53 MB, 1171x818, TheOldDays.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18073967

I could upload the 2e and 5e core books and you could compare for yourself if you'd like.

The short version is that 2e was 'anything goes', to the point where it became a clusterfuck. You had space marines throwing void grenades that would eat anything the template touched up against an army with chainmail, swords and crossbows. You had no army lists, just prices for things - you could put together any sort of army from any groups. You had weird and wacky shit all over the place, with a backstory that had such grim moments that they were starkly out of place.

3e and later editions tried to give a more coherent focus to the game. The levity was mostly taken out to make the game fit the backstory. Codices existed. options were folded into other races or removed completely - Genestealers used to be a seperate thing from tyranids, and ask anyone at all about the squats. There was order, and there was balance, and things could grow from there without becoming the clusterfuck of WHY again.

>> No.18073992

>>18073962

cont

In fact a lot of what were "current 40k" units then are retconned to be "heresy era" now, eg SM jetbikes, and Forgeworld has made a few kits for some vehicles and power armour.

The game was massively detailed, with damage charts for different vehicles, skid rules for bikers falling off. Units like Terminators were massively powerful (in 2ed they have a 3+ save on TWO dice, though can't remember what it was in RT, if they existed) It took hours to play a game, and you really needed a third player to GM.

You could also use some RT units in Fantasy, as it was explicit at the time that the Warhammer World was one surrounded by warp storms in the 40k galaxy.

>> No.18074000

>First one is not the same character
>Second is a eggnaught(contemptor)
>Third and forth are epic
>Fifth HE'S ON A TRICICLE, NOW SHUT UP AND LOVE HIM.

>> No.18074001
File: 277 KB, 800x805, StoopidBeakie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18074001

Rogue Trader was before my time gameplay wise but I liked what I knew of the background then.

I played a little of second ed and read up a lot on the background then, really liked it but can see how it was a rules set more suited to skirmish battles than large scale games...the combat system especially could take forever with certain units. Necromunda used tweaked 2nd ed rules, still does though Underhive was shite, and was brilliant.

3rd ed was what I played the most and I did enjoy it though gameplay wise it did lack the character 2nd ed could have. Simple tactics and target selection was more important than some grand strat, but that was fun in its own way.

4th and 5th I didn't play so much as the rules started to take turns for the worst in my opinion. Stuff like "true line of sight except when it isn't" and so on. I think the stupid terrain rules were probably my biggest issue, and those on top of things like constant price rises and model quality/style issues eventually resulted in me not playing any more.

I still have an interest in the 40k background, but damn some of the crap they are putting into it these days is just rubbish.

>> No.18074032
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>>18073967
>Genestealers used to be a seperate thing from tyranids
that was in Rogue Trader

2nd edition is where they first tried to corral the game (and setting) into something coherent. And it was a pretty stark difference from Rogue Trader

>> No.18074042

>>18073967
>2e rules
Oh god, I still have nightmares about trying to sort out the Eye of Terror-sized clusterfuck that was 2e rules by the end. EVERYTHING was far more complicated than it needed to be. Play an average 4e or 5e sized game with 2e rules and unit descriptions and you'd easily be there an extra hour or two. Oh, and also everything was painted, both the show models and the artwork, in ridiculous bright neon colors. The nids vs. mehreens and eldar picture above is positively tame compared to RT and 2e flamboyance.

>> No.18074092

>>18074042

You also have to take into account GWs shifting to lower points costs per model and pushing up what points cost counted as an "average game".

Not that I'm disagreeing that the rules broke down hard when a large number of models were involved but I think the average game possibly had less models.

>> No.18074294

>>18074092
Yeah that's what I was trying to get at; 40k's been slowly shifting, for better or worse, from a smaller warband or skirmish-level game into the epic-scale battles we've come to take as standard. The rules from previous editions were designed for their expectations at the time period, which is why 2e rules had a tendency to drive people insane if they tried to run a large-scale, let alone what we would consider Apocalypse-size, game with them.

>> No.18074301
File: 1.31 MB, 1165x1694, Ghazghkull.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>18074000
Actually that first one is the same guy. Ghazkull was a randomly generated warboss in the back of an ork book.

I agree on the two epic minis though.

The last has them both on Jetbikes.

>> No.18074359

>>18074294
Which strikes me as funny because 40k's scale is really fucking wonky right now. Why would a fucking Chapter Master be present at a fight involving a minor fraction of his chapter and deeming himself worth fighting an insignificant portion of his adversary's forces?

And for that matter, the main armies that have dropped substantially in point cost since 3rd edition, are pretty much everything but the space marines...

>> No.18074424

>>18074359
>everything but the space marines...
no, the marines have dropped in cost significantly

>krak and frag grenades now free
>rhinos are only 35 points, come with smoke launchers and a storm bolter
>free special/heavy weapons
>other weapons reduced in cost
>sergeant dropped in cost
>basic marines down 1 point

and that's just the basic tactical squad

>> No.18074446

>>18074359

That's because GW jacks the Space Muhreens off. It's their money maker.

>> No.18074490

>>18074301
I know the jetbike thing, i was doing a joke since he looks like he's on a tricycle.

>> No.18074516

>>18074490
The Squats had actual tric

>> No.18074518
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>>18074301

This is the old Ghaz..ghaz...ghazghkull model though.

I wish I was slightly older, I'd love to have got a load of the old models, a lot of the time the painting and colourschemes don't help them.

I remember when WhineSeer did that "Firebase" fan magazine, one guy had a gorgeous black, bone and purple CSM army made mostly from the old one-piecers and the dreadnoughts and Chaos Androids (spiritual predecessors to the necrons) from the Space Crusade boxes. It'd be cool to have this slightly small, but cool, old "Furibundus" dread or whatever.

>Space Crusade dreads. Can't remember why some were tall with four weapon mounts, and the smaller ones had two with chin boltguns or something

>> No.18074532

>>18074001

FUCK, I THOUGH THERE WAS A NEW DEFFWOTCH STORY UP

>> No.18074539
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>>18074516

>> No.18074576
File: 25 KB, 267x233, oldghaz.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>18074518

>tfw you want to upload two pics with a post

This is the old Gazzy, aint it?

See what I mean about old models with newer paintschemes too

>> No.18074599

From the RT I've seen and heard about

1) Races were more uniform (everyone having guns).
2) There were space dwarves.
3) Tyrannids had centaur diplomats.
4) Genestealers weren't Tyrannids.
5) There was more humor.

I was introduced to the setting in 3rd edition; the birth of Slaanesh in the Eldar Codex was my first bit of lore.

The invention of the Tau was a big difference b/c it was the first possibly "good" race in the setting (all the others being shades of gray-to-evil). They were also the only manga influenced race.

5th Edition - With Necrons turned into Newcrons the setting's becoming gay. Part of its' appeal to me was the "grim darkness" many folks mock. Trying to make the factions seem less evil is a cop-out.

>> No.18074633

>>18074576
That's not the OLD ghas, that's the second one. Old one didn't have MALAKI GOBLIN HERO!

>> No.18074652
File: 10 KB, 397x264, Newcrons.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>18074599
> gay as a pejorative
> /tg/

>> No.18074661
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>>18074539


Love the semi-power armoured Scout Sergeant. Been looking for one.

Want a squad of the one-piece plastic Scouts in the "Lost Patrol" boardgame too. Don't know if they were just generally released or had metal counterparts, but they had like shin armour and "puffy" shoulders like WHFB Empire or something.

>a picture tells a thousand words. Sergeant looks the same as the one above but I'm sure these were all plastic.

>> No.18074666
File: 75 KB, 750x423, ork_perso_ghaz_0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>18074576
He's the one with the eye patch.

>> No.18074683

>>18073807
Macragge looks like he's taking a shit.

>>18073886
Reads like something by Alejandro Jodorowsky

>> No.18074722

>>18074359
>Why would a fucking Chapter Master be present at a fight involving a minor fraction of his chapter and deeming himself worth fighting an insignificant portion of his adversary's forces?
Because battles in 40k represent smaller forces that turn the tide of a war, compared to Epic which revolved around the entire war effort.
That's why 2 troops+HQ works, it represents a elite strike force sent to engage and eliminate a key objective. If you didn't think battles in 40k were merely "2 forces fighting" you'd understand this.

>> No.18074766

>>18074683
Taking a shit was common to a lot of marines up until 3/4e, because of the restrictions on casting techniques available to GW at the time.

>> No.18074811

>>18074576 That's the 2e Ghazzy
>>18074666 This is the original conversion of him.

>> No.18074847

One thing that I hate about 40k now is how Special Characters are far too commonplace. Guess part of that is down to how you have to take them to change your armies composition (eg Bikes as troops) rather than the doctrines system or supplement books or whatever.

Don't see the sense though, it's not really a cashgrab as you'd buy a generic HQ model anyway.

>> No.18074894

>>18073967
god damn, why didn't Eldar coneheads phase out too.

>> No.18074922

>>18074894
At least they're not quite as bad anymore.

>> No.18074960
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>>18074666
The ork on that banner totally has a swastika for a bicep

>> No.18074978

>>18074894

Because "Tactical Headbutt" is a phrase that requires more use, both in-game and in everyday life.

>> No.18074984
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> rogue trader

>> No.18075000
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>>18074960
It's a manji, actually. Now why he has a buddhist symbol for peace, that's another story.

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>> No.18075008
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>>18073967
>old days.jpg
>current Howling banshees.

mfw.

>> No.18075023
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>>18075008
> .jpg
> file is .png

>> No.18075042
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>> No.18075056
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>>18075042

>> No.18075069
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>> No.18075093
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>>18075069

>> No.18075130
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>>18074599
Let's fix this a little;

>1) Races were more uniform (everyone having guns).
WARGEAR was more uniform. Everyone could use everything, pretty much

>2) There were space dwarves.
Not just that, there were space lizardmen too, and space beastmen.. it was very much "fantasy in space" aside from the introduction of Space Marines

>3) Tyrannids had centaur diplomats.
>4) Genestealers weren't Tyrannids.
"Tyranids" didn't really exist proper until 2nd edition came around

>5) There was more humor.
there was also more senseless grimdark.

>I was introduced to the setting in 3rd edition; the birth of Slaanesh in the Eldar Codex was my first bit of lore.
it was handled with more eloquence in 2nd edition. I heartily suggest checking it out

>The invention of the Tau was a big difference b/c it was the first possibly "good" race in the setting (all the others being shades of gray-to-evil).
The Tau are also grey, merely less overtly black than the rest

>They were also the only manga influenced race.
The Eldar did that first. They're an amalgamation of several imported Anime and Manga from the 70's-80's, notably Space Pirate Haarlock and Bio Booster Armour Guyver (though there are others)

>5th Edition - the setting's becoming gay.
you're gay

>> No.18075150
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18075150

>>18075069

is that a Hrud I spy? Looks similar to the old Chaos Warrior with jezzail, which looked nothing like most Warriors of Chaos

>> No.18075166

>>18075130
Also tubes. In RT/early 2e nothing was Imperial enough unless it had fuckloads of tubes going in and out of it

>> No.18075188
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18075188

>>18075130
> They're an amalgamation of several imported Anime and Manga from the 70's-80's, notably Space Pirate Haarlock and Bio Booster Armour Guyver (though there are others)
Yes, but those shows are good, so they don't count.

>> No.18075211
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18075211

>>18075166
yes, but that's the same as anything made in the 80's and early 90's

Take a look at any "dark" cartoon from that time period. Industrial (tube-filled) hellscapes errywhere

Wish it stuck, to be honest. I love that aesthetic

>> No.18075220

>>18075188
TUUUUUUUUUUUUBES

>> No.18075222

>>18075130
thanks for your crumbs of wisdom; wed be fucked without you

>> No.18075294

Old 40k was so much better that I managed to get an ancient 40k epic scale set.

And Now I have 14 Land Raiders

>> No.18075354
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18075354

>>18074666
Oh my gods, orkz have BEARDS?

>> No.18075377

>>18075354
That one did.

>> No.18075393

>>18075377
But only that one

>> No.18075428

>>18075393
He was the first and last Ork to ever achieve facial hair. He felt right un-Orky.

>> No.18075442

>>18075354
Beard squigs were fashionable for Runthearders and the occasional madboy

>> No.18077219
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18077219

Obligatory.

>> No.18079684

saving

>> No.18080086

>>18074539

Gah nostalgia.

That top left space marine captain was one of the first 40k models I ever bought, not counting the free metal necron that came in white dwarf.

I was a fantasy player for all of 2nd ed 40ks time but I played a couple of games and a fair few of Necromunda.

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