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[ERROR] No.17695724 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Ok, let's say for some reason there are no Space Marines in the 40k universe. Now, with all this extra-money left over and the INCENTIVE to improve the Imperial Guard, what changes do you think would happen?

Carapace and Hellguns for everyone?

>> No.17695731

Are there still Chaos Space Marines?

Then what you have is a Imperium that will soon crumble.

>> No.17695735

I dunno. Given that there is less than 1 mahreen per planet, and spread that amount between the zillions of Imperial Guard, I doubt that abolishing them would make much material difference.

It's not like the Imperium gives a hoot about decent economics anyway.

>> No.17695739

>>17695731
this. Also the fact that there are dones of planets that will fall simply because by the time the IG finished mobilizing their ungodly amount of troops with their horribly inefficient system.

The conquers of the planet would be long gone.

>> No.17695742

>>17695731

Or were there never Space Marines in the first place?

In that case what you might have is a still living Emperor, a well to do Imperium and... fuck, I just realized how badly Space Marines fucked the Imperium over.

>> No.17695746

>>17695739
>dones
dozens* I've been doing that a lot lately

>> No.17695752

>>17695735
Yes, but if that sheer power never existed, do you think they would improve the guard so the even had a chance with all the wars they seem to be hell bent on causing?

>>17695731
Of course not, the Chaos Marines are converts, and they never even existed.

>> No.17695754

If there's no marines there is no heresey and if there is no heresey there is no golden throne and if there is no golden throne there is no god emperor and if there is no god emperor then the whole things shit.

>> No.17695758

>Now, with all this extra-money left over
>Implying the Imperium works that way

Capitalist pig-dog...

>> No.17695759

>>17695731
Pretty much. The Imperium needs the blunt, overwhelming numbers of the Imperial Guard and the quick response time and individual power of the Space Marines in order to survive. Take away either of them, and the Imperium's going to start falling apart pretty quickly.

>> No.17695761

>>17695742
you'd still have Chaos scared shitless of the Emperor looking for a way to off him.

Space Marines were the best bet.
IG may not be as strong, but they're far easier to corrupt

>> No.17695767

>>17695754

>if there is no golden throne there is no god emperor
>mfw

>> No.17695772

>>17695742
Frankly, if Emps never experimented with Crazy gene fuckery, not only would the reconquering of Earth have taken decades more and the Great Crusade then go as slow as a snail, Chaos would just have just corrupted some other high ranking officials and then you have the Heresy.

>> No.17695776

>>17695761

>IG may not be as strong, but they're far easier to corrupt

The first round of experimentation shows a 50% corruption rate for Space Marines...

>> No.17695785

>>17695776
if you're referring to the Horus Heresy it wasn't 50%. Horus had to spend time purging loyalists within his own legion.

>> No.17695793

>>17695767
Bring it faggot, my only /tg/ derived knowledge of the fluff will surely trump whatever years you've had studying the grand tomes of 40k Lore.

Also, it's a relitively well known fact the the emperor was all "No, don't worship me assholes" So if he was alive that propaganda tool moot. He's still super powerful just not called the God Emperor cause he is above that kind of GLORIOUS LEADER worship.

>> No.17695795

posting in a IG Fanboy troll thread.

sage for troll thread

>> No.17695798

>>17695795
that feel when you forget the sage

>> No.17695800

Teach everyone proper latin.

>> No.17695802

>>17695776
Half of those Legions only turned to Horus because the Emperor was a dick to them. Most of their actually corruption happened later.

>> No.17695804

>>17695793

>Implying he wasn't called the God-Emperor before the Heresy

Have you even read the Horus Heresy books? Like, even just one?

>> No.17695812

fun fact: The emperor was a genius and great leader.

But he kind of caused the Heresy by being a dick.

>> No.17695819

>>17695724
No difference whatsoever. One million dudes disappear from a universe of however many billion billions.

>> No.17695821

>>17695800
Also, dubs.

>> No.17695825

>>17695724

To be completely fair: The Imperium's progress is a lot slower. The Emperor's plan was always super-soldiers, beginning with the Thunder Warriors. Mortal men are simply too fragile.

Sure, you avoid the Heresy...But the Great Crusade is way slower. In fact, if you read 'Horus Rising', the Imperium would be *exactly* like the 'fake Imperium' they attacked in the opening of the novel.

Also, it really wouldn't be 40K without Space Marines.

>> No.17695840

>>17695724
That is a Ultra PDF right?

>> No.17695845

>>17695724
Considered that lmost every planet of Imperium was reconquered only mecause of space marines, i say thatmperial guard dosent exists anymway.

>> No.17695862

>>17695840
>Ultramar PDF.jpg
>Ultramarine Blue
>Inverted Omega

Pretty sure it's Nocturne's PDF.

>> No.17695866

>>17695804
Dude, did you even read my post? Like even one sentance? I'm making shit up as I go! And my first post was clearly "If you give a mouse a cookie" so why even try to take me seriously?

>> No.17695869

>>17695845
Question for you fluffhounds: how many marines were there supposed to be at this time? At present there's supposed to be, what, a million? That's enough to reconquer absolutely fuck all, but I guess their numbers could have gone down by a few million times or something...

>> No.17695881

>>17695866

I wonder how many pictures I have have the word Nigga in them? I guess we're gonna find out since you won't shut up, huh?

>> No.17695893

>>17695862

>> No.17695895

>>17695869

LEGIONS WERE HUGE, GENERALLY TENS OF THOUSANDS OF MARINES AT THE LEAST, BUT THERE WERE ONLY 18 OF THEM, SO IT PROBABLY EVENS OUT.

>> No.17695919

>>17695869
During the Heresy? 18 Legions, each Legion at 100,000 men. In contemporary 40k, there are 1000 chapters, at 1000 Marines strong. And yes, during the Heresy, it was enough to conquer the galaxy. That's the canon stance - you don't have to like it, you don't have to think it makes sense, but yes, Space Marines canonically are that good. The Imperial Army played a supporting role, but most of the work was done by the Astartes Legions.

>> No.17695927

>>17695919
>100,000

Er, 10,000, rather.

>> No.17695931

>>17695881
Jokes on you bitch tits, I'm off to classes. Have fun with that soul eating depression you seem to be dealing with though.

Also, before you go all LOL UNDERAGE B& they're college classes. You know, that place they wouldn't let you in because having a small dick is not the equivalent of being smart.

>> No.17695944

>>17695919
>>17695927
Was about to say Deathleaper... If you had messed that up then there was a problem.

>> No.17695946

>>17695931

Huh, seems I don't have as many as I thought.

Have fun in Art History fag.

Why didn't you take any science or math like your parents wanted you to?

>> No.17695947

>>17695893
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIINBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE

>> No.17695949

>>17695919
This could make sense if we assume that each planet has the surface area of... a small town?

>> No.17695970

>>17695949
Like I said - the canon, official stance is that Space Marines are powerful enough to achieve such feats despite being comparably few in number. You don't have to like it, but that doesn't change what the fluff actually says on the matter.

>> No.17695973

>>17695949
>complaining it doesn't make sense
>40k
oh fucking lol. There's your problem.

>> No.17695977

>>17695949

WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF 40K. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU.

>> No.17695987

>>17695973
>>17695970
No problem here. I'll just keep assuming my tiny planet theory is right. It seems cuter that way.

>> No.17695988

I still don't get what makes the marines so powerful.

I mean, sure, if there was, like, 10000 of them per planet I'd understand how they can do it but just 10?

So they got special armor and a good gun, along with longevity and the ability to survive grievous damage.

Not trolling, just trying to figure out what makes them so special (inb4 plot armor).

>> No.17696003

>>17695988
plot powers

>> No.17696008

>>17695988
10 per planet assumes 100,000 worlds in the Imperium. I think it's actually more like 1 Marine per planet.

>> No.17696020

Trying to make sense of 40k either makes you a troll, or one who profoundly misunderstands the setting.

Given this is your second thread (or first with one derailed) I'm going with troll.

>> No.17696023

>>17696008

So HOW?

I mean, yes, they have the experience of centuries and the bestest equipment the Imperium can offer, yet they are still dudes in armor with a gun, against a fucking planet. Sooner or later they WILL run out of ammo and energy.

>> No.17696034

>>17696023
You miss understand the purpose of Space Marines.

Here is an explanation.

>> No.17696039

>>17696023
that's there one weakness.
There's not enough of them.
There are not enough to defend every world.

For every planet you hear of the marines heroically saving, several more have fallen.

>> No.17696040

>>17695988
Superhumans with armour touch enough to repel light anti-armour weapons, capable of surviving for hundreds of years of nigh-on constant warfare and accumulating vast amounts of experience. All while being fearless and heavily indoctrinated. They're miles beyond regular humans and they're generally used in surgical operations where the quality of the troop used is vastly more important than the quantity. When used in line combat they're wasted, since attrition will eventually wear them down.

>> No.17696069

>>17696034
I like that they made an effort to make it make sense...

>> No.17696071

>>17696023
It's not like the entire planet is waiting for them when they land.

>> No.17696074

Marines basically drop in, break faces, and then move to the next planet. They don't sit around defending like the Guard and the PDF. That's how so few of them get the job done. Also, each one is supposed to be mini Napoleon/Hitler/Alexander/Churchill/Patton/etc.

>> No.17696078

>>17696023

It's not going to be the Space Marines fighting against the entire planet's military in a big pitched battle. Generally speaking, they'll quickly target and destroy enemy leaders and capital cities with massed Drop Pod assaults to leave the enemy disorganised and reeling. Fear and panic gives them a big advantage here, as Space Marines have quite the dread reputation. Once that's done, they'll then use hit and ambush attacks to further weaken the enemy by striking at critical strategic points, sapping the enemy's numbers and depleting their resources. Enemy counter-attacks are either evaded or drawn into ambushes and destroyed. This proceeds until they're softened up enough for the Marines to finish them off in a few pitched battles.

That's the in-universe justification. Again, no, from a realistic sense, it still wouldn't allow such a numerically inferior force to win out, but 40k is not a realistic setting.

>> No.17696087

this guy is just a troll, let him die from starvation.

What really matters is the OP mini? Where did it came from ? Conversion of a guardman ?

>> No.17696092

>>17696087
That's a Ultramar PDF.

Read the damn thread.

>> No.17696098

>>17696087
he has the branding of the Ultrasmurfs.
Clearly Macragge.

>> No.17696107

>>17696087
I'm pretty sure it's just a converted Cadian.

>> No.17696110

>>17696040
And Chaos Space Marines have all these advantages, plus the blessings of the Dark Gods and millennia more experience than the average loyalist. Yet things like this happen:

>Chaos Lord Ratathrax of the Night Lords invades Catachan. Sending vast anti-plant barrages onto the planet, Ratathrax robs the Catachan Imperial Guard of their most natural defence before systematically bombing the bastion networks into rubble. Ratathrax makes planetfall to enjoy the butchery first hand. Unfortunately for him Colonel Straken, lying in ambush in a quagmire of toxic sludge, waits for Ratathrax to remove his helmet before throttling him with a poisonous barb-root.

>> No.17696123

>>17696110
Dude's name's 'Ratathrax', I hardly think they'll let him win.

>> No.17696129

>>17696110
>Colonel Straken.

There's your problem. but for every Colonel Straken in the guard. There's a trillion who will die on their first mission.

>> No.17696137

>>17696110
And that is why you don't take of your helmet.

>> No.17696156

Is it canon that each heresy era legion was 10,000 marines?
The ultramarine background implies they just kept recruiting as fast as they could, which is why at the end of the heresy Ultramarines were half of all loyalist marines.
And why they had 20+ second founding chapters

>> No.17696159

>Skullcrusher
>Brother-Captain Haines stood among the front lines for 140 hours without rest, defending the civilians of New Vernun from marauding Chaos Space Marines of the World Eaters Legion. With this master-crafted power fist, he slew hundreds of traitor space marines and several terrifying chaos dreadnoughts.

Such is the wacky world of Dawn of War.

>> No.17696172

>>17696129
And Straken is the Catachan's Catachan.
If he and Sly Marbo somehow had a freaky love child...

>> No.17696185

>>17696156
>Is it canon that each heresy era legion was 10,000 marines?

On average. Some, like the Emperor's Children were smaller. And others, like the Ultramarines, were larger. But overall, it averaged out at about 10,000 per Legion.

>> No.17696193

>>17696156
No it is not canon.

>> No.17696200

>>17696185
didn't ultramarines get to some absurd size like 100,000?

They could have single handily ended the heresy if Girlyman didn't get tricked.

>> No.17696230

>>17696185
I've heard that Raven's Flight puts the Raven Guard's numbers pre-Isstvan at 80,000. If that were the case, I'd imagine the other Legions' numbers have been sneakily bumped up too.

>> No.17696261

>>17696230
>I'd imagine the other Legions' numbers have been sneakily bumped up too.

I really hope so, because other wise it turns out that the heresy involved a fraction of the marines that are supposed to exist in regular 40k. And that just doesn't make much sense when it comes to the narrative that the heresy was all about these grand, massive battles when something like the 3rd war for Armageddon or the 13th Black Crusade actually drags a similar amount of marines overall, if not more.

>> No.17696264

>>17696107

That helmet has to come from somewhere though. It doesn't look converted.

>> No.17696286

>The short answer is that I don’t know who is right. From conversations a few years ago (before the Heresy series started) I was always left with the distinct impression that the Legions each had many tens of thousands of Space Marines. A more accurate number may have been discussed in the meetings between Alan Merrett and the authors when the novels were being planned, but I wasn’t there so I can’t say for sure.

>One argument I’ve read that 100k+ Legion size is too big is that the rough number of Chapters founded when the Legions were split would show around 95% casualties in the Legions during the Heresy and the Scouring. It’s precisely because of these horrendous levels of casualties that I think the power of the Space Marines was wholly shattered by the civil war. Not only does the larger size of the Legions make more sense of their accomplishments during the Great Crusade, it also has more narrative poignancy to think that such huge armies were laid low, and the Space Marines fell from the highest pinnacle not only of spirit but also physical power.

>Like many things concerning the Heresy, others may have a different view.

>The lasting impression I always have of the Heresy is from a picture in the original Space Marine rulebook, showing thousands of Astartes disembarking from huge Capitol Imperialis super-heavy transports with immense dropships plunging down form orbit. In the world of 40K (or 30k) big is beautiful!

http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/jumping-the-fence/

>> No.17696320

>>17696261
>>17696286
I always assumed that all Legions were at least 100,000 strong at the beginning of the Heresy.
And then hundreds of thousands of Marines died, and the remaining Legions were broken up into 1000-man chapters.

I didn't know this was so disputed . .

>> No.17696345

>>17696320
it's 40k
everything can be disputed
and all but the most fundamental of fluff can be hand waved as propaganda.
It's up to you to interpret what's canon and what isn't.

That's why arguments like this are so pants on head retarded. It's why versus threads with 40k are just as pants on head retarded.

>> No.17696350

>>17696264
Something from Pig Iron would be my guess

>> No.17696359

>The legion size issue is contentious, with several types of numbers mentioned in separate sources meant to reflect a general or nominally-sized legion. As well as numbers directly given in sources themselves, several authors have commented on the issue. Pressed with questions about pre-Heresy organisation - although declaring there is not any real information about it - Andy Chambers answered that "Space Marines started out in Legions of approximately 10,000 strong (or more, depending on the specific legion), which were broken down into Chapter-sized Great Companies rather like the Space Wolves (who are renowned for not adopting the Codex Astartes alterations made by Guilliman post-heresy and who thus follow pre-heresy organisation more closely"5.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine_Legion#.TyLdU_l2P5m

>> No.17696386

>>17696264
It looks converted to me, as it has that sticking out bit on the back which the cadian helmet has and the two side parts.

>> No.17696447

Why can't we all just get along? :(

>> No.17696456

>>17696447
bit late aren't you?

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