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[ERROR] No.17339437 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

On the heels of the other week's starship combat discussion, lets talk about large-scale Rogue Trader.

What sort of fleets do players try to amass? How spread out are your resources? Do you consolidate power or are you in a phase of rapid growth? What are the key resources that the party needs to oversee personally?

Storytellers: how do you like to run planetary invasions? Do you prefer to randomly generate planets during exploration or do you prepare one at a time to always be the next one discovered? What was the largest conspiracy you ever had NPCs hatch against your party's dynasty?

And of course, as fitting a thread like this, you are encouraged to brag about the vast wealth and influence of your party as well as its holdings and exploits.

Imagedump to start us off.

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>> No.17339517

ship graveyards are an awesome plot device in any campaign.

>> No.17339537

No self respecting rogue trader owns less than three castles.

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>> No.17339587

Oddly enough my RT players have expressed no interest in in expanding their fleet. They like to invest their money in other ways and keep things quiet. Unfortunately for them though they dicked over the most powerful crime lord in the section last session by stealing a force staff he owned.

>> No.17339588

The hell is this place? That must have been hard as fuck to build.

>> No.17339594

>What sort of fleets do players try to amass?
The kind the book allows for - one ship. Maintaining multiple ships is the realm of Terran nobility and the Administratum. Your PF would run down real quick if you had to make maintenance rolls on multiple ships after every fight.

>> No.17339612

personally I rolled up thirty star systems and then have my explorers roll a percentile every time they explore --not travel to or through but actually explore-- a new square on the space grid. If they roll a 30 or less they find the corresponding system.

Keeps things a bit random for me too. I like that. If I feel like I'm exploring the area too I'll hopefully carry that theme over into the rest of my storytelling.

>> No.17339634

Forgot the location but the water goes away for a while sometimes

>> No.17339652

Not at all! There are rules for buying more ships in the core book iirc. And of course you can get command over additional ships through roleplaying means (piracy, salvage, navy alliance etc)

Of course how you want to run your game is up to you.

>> No.17339778

Mont Saint-Michel, in Normandy.

>> No.17339784

ever performed an exterminatus /tg/?

>> No.17339794

This is why I don't like Rogue Trader as opposed to Dark Heresy, or even Deathwatch. I was promised Star Trek IN SPACE FOR PROFIT, but my Ork pirate just has to stay on the ship and occasionally yell at the crew to shoot the gun harder while the other players wave their spessship dicks at everything they see and railgun it to death.

>> No.17339802

By maintainance you mean upkeep right?
Becouse that sounds overly cruel to me, forcing people to make tests at -30 or 40 minimum after each fight or loose their ship.

>> No.17339833

A) that might be your storyteller not challenging your players enough, or your party being too predictably gung-ho, rather than a problem with Rogue Trader itself and

B) You can't expect to be allowed on every away mission when you're an ork anyway. That's sorta what you get for playing a dangerous xenos that will be shot on sight on most Imperial worlds.

>> No.17339841


I've got a personal asteroid base/manor in orbit near Port Wander. We're looking into equipping it with Void shields and defensive batteries. Does that count?


Sounds like a problem with your group. Explorers should be leading through example and doing shit themselves, not sending waves of disposable minions or nuking things from orbit (though I've done this once, but only because they called my so-called "bluff" to do so).

Have you tried talking to your GM and explaining your expectations aren't quite jiving with the current feel of the game? I swear open communication and discussion between the GM and players of expectations, ideas, etc is what makes my group so damn fun.

>You can't expect to be allowed on every away mission when you're an ork anyway

Nonesense! Paint him pink, stuff him in some bulky clothes and tell everyone he's an Ogyrn or something.

>> No.17339913


>Paint him pink, stuff him in some bulky clothes and tell everyone he's an Ogyrn or something.

But dat ain't right an proppa, boss.

>> No.17340128

An asteroid mansion is a start.

You've got your home. Now you need your second home, your vacation home and your home-away-from-home.

>> No.17340232


>> No.17340388

lets talk resources.

Anyone have mining vessels in their fleet? You can make almost as much money as smuggling if you know where the demand is.

>> No.17340454

Our Rogue trader amassed a crusade fleet after convincing the Admech that the Orks of Undred Undred Teef had stumbled upon a working STC.
So we had an Exsplorator fleet and out ramshackle fleet of ex-navy ships and bulk haulers. Thanks to our GM not realising that we would loot anything not bolted to a space hulk our flagship was a lovely mix of archeo tec and xenos heresy. But we found ourselves tied into an unending war with the Orks.

>> No.17340525

Our GM had a full chart of the Undred Undred Teef system with known warp routes and planetary information being added as we found it out. We spent more time actually finding people to aid us in our war than actually fighting it.

Along the way the party also let off atomic on Scintilla as revenge for the navigator being snubbed at the feast of the emperor’s ascension blaming it on chaos forces in the expanse.
When the inquisition came looking bricks where shat but they bought the story about a chaos cult and we lived dine on luxurious space meats another day.

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>> No.17340661

>Along the way the party also let off atomic on Scintilla as revenge for the navigator being snubbed at the feast of the emperor’s ascension blaming it on chaos forces in the expanse.

Let no slight go unanswered.

>> No.17340685


Sadly my small fleet is nothing but warships. 1 Light cruiser, 2-3 frigates, and a Hazeroth Raider.

Hoping to acquire a transport somehow.

>> No.17340688

>You can't expect to be allowed on every away mission when you're an ork

Of course you can. You're sanctioned. The Rogue Trader can wave the documentation in peoples' faces and tell them to shove it. Alternatively, the GM shouldn't design adventures that sidelines you for considerable periods of time.

>I swear open communication and discussion between the GM and players of expectations, ideas, etc is what makes my group so damn fun.

This. A million times this. I once ran a segment in Footfall where the explorers were having their ship repaired. Pretty much everyone shat on them, misfortune came a-knockin' in half a dozen different ways and they spent several sessions there slogging through all the crap. I am very glad my players informed me that it was Unfun, and I have strived to avoid a repeat performance. I'm still throwing mountains of shit at them, of course, but it's the sort that's actually fun to deal with.

>> No.17340770

Planetary invasion? Well, the ground warfare rules from BFK are wank. Some bloke on /tg/ made them better, but I'm still reticent to try them. Especially since it's something that only one or two people in my group would enjoy.

The planetary invasion I've run involved one group of explorers infiltrating a solar empire of five worlds ahead of time, sowing havoc and me taking their deeds into account when the Imperium rolled up. They then took part in various key actions in the invasion of the homeworld (working with an armoured division driving into the main hive, preaching to and fighting with the Guard, running spec-ops and leading a bombing run against a massive fortress respectively). Achievement Points dictated just how big a win they obtained (and thus how intact the world was when they took it). Unless all the players are onboard for detailed strategic warfare (or you can handle it between sessions with those that are) I'd stick to focusing on the actions of the explorers within the conflict.

As for resources? The dynasty is newly forged and still tied to a pair of allied families which the Rogue Trader and one seneschal are each from. They've establishing more of their own holdings through wise investment and aforementioned conquered solar empire and they've got a nice bit of property orbiting Port Wander. They've helped sort out the affairs of the seneschal's family on a fledgeling hive world, training up a recently orphaned cousin (assassins) and utterly crushing the crime syndicate that was giving her trouble. They've also allied with another dynasty (down on its luck) and is currently helping defend a world full of recently acquired manufactorum investments from an ork invasion, among other things.

>> No.17340786

Acquiring a transport for background endeavours to boost the group's PF a little is on the cards, and I'm pretty sure other groups have had the same idea. Of course, an undergunned transport is going to be easy pickings for pirates.

>> No.17340790

Actualy, getting sanctioned is an costly elite advance. Once you have it, you don't need any kind of "papers", though, since you get the same tatoo as a sanctioned psyker, according to Into the Storm.

>> No.17340803

And this is why you always join the war, instead of starting them. Mercs can always refuse contracts. Especially when backed by a kilometer long battlecruiser

>> No.17340805

You're quite right. I missed that stonking 800xp cost. Surely the actual sanctioning, if not the reduced penalties for social interaction, should come about through play and not via an XP cost, though?

>> No.17340864

I think your paying for an understanding of humans as well, IIRC. Still, its steep for what you get. I'd reduce it or even grant it automatically if it means a player can play what he wants and not be sidelined

>> No.17342371

This is so stupidly wrong I am a-boggle at it. The corebook gives several examples of Rogue Traders with massive fleets in the background. The rules for losing profit factor most certainly do not mention anything about it occurring due to owning a gross of ships, much less smaller numbers. This is bizarre bit of wankery that is, happily, totally absent from the actual books and setting material.

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>> No.17342671

When I was running RT I had two Navy reservists in the party including the trader, needless to say they were working towards building a carrier battle group.
I knew what they were doing and fully encouraged it.
As far as fleet size I allowed each member of the party (seven in total) to command a ship if they wanted. I also allowed for the hiring of NPC captains for non-combat and regular trade route ships.

>> No.17343125

>> No.17343719

The only transport type ships I'd even bother using are Conquest-class Star Galeon, Carrack-class Transport and the Universe-class Mass Conveyer. Extra emphasis on the third ship so mentioned. Sunsear Laser Battery in the dorsal spot and a Sunsear Laser Broadside in the port/starboard slot = pretty well defended mass conveyor.

>> No.17344090

I've let players hire NPCs to fill Ship Roles on their own ships. They can only have a few active ones at a time, but it helps give each ship's crew a bit more personality and stops them from being utterly reliant on crew rating.

Of course, every other NPC ship of note in the game does the same, so they don't have too big an advantage.

>> No.17344098

I am GMing my first rogue trader campaign in 4 hours.
I have only GM'd around 5 games of paranoia and my players have immmensely enjoyed them.
Never played rogue trader, tough.

any tips?

>> No.17344101

Freedom and a large scale are the cornetstones of the game. Players should rarely feel like they're being forced into doing something and, if they do, it should be by circumstance rather than someone handing down orders. As for scale, expect the players to use the several thousand men they command and encourage them to think big. Selling 1000 lasguns to a primitive world is small time. Giving those lasguns to a faction and helping them establish dominance in exchange for exclusive trade rights is more like it.

Do you have anything planned so far? Going to use one of the pre-written adventures?

>> No.17344113

Are you saying that repairing a battle damaged spaceship has no effect on PF?

>> No.17344117

That's exactly what we're saying chief. If you've read the book, there's a section that covers shit like repairing damaged ships. It's handled like an acquisition with modifiers based on how much needs to be repaired. It's pretty cut and dry.

>> No.17344119

There is a line in the core book, hang on, let me look...

Chapter 9, Playing the Game. Page 274, under "Acquiring A Starship". It says "Because starships are extremely rare and powerful, only one warp-capable vessel may be acquired at a time." My GM, at least, used that as justification for only allowing us to own a single ship.

Rereading it now, though, and seeing the word "Acquiring" makes me it meant you can't buy more than one in the same Acquisition test, and we should be allowed to have multiple fucking ships.

>> No.17344125

so acquisitions never lower PF?that seems....odd...
So i can constantly buy things of a certain value and never get any poorer?

>> No.17344126

It's likely that your GM too made the same mistake. They include that so that players don't acquire an entire squadron or more of starships with a single roll.

>> No.17344127

Not that I've ruled. You'll need to make plenty of acquisition rolls to get one up and running but, once it's in place, I've assumed that the dynasty's funds can handle it.

Of course, the fluff of the RT books does sometimes mention that only the richest dynasties can maintain cruisers. Still, if you're going to impose a PF hit for acquiring more ships you need to tell your players this right at the start of the game. And then give them a PF boost when they're no longer responsible for maintaining that ship.

Yeah, your GM is a tool. Especially since letting players have multiple ships means you can spread the PCs out and ensure that fewer people are left idle and bored during space combat.

>> No.17344128

remember the scale : think BIG !
encourage them to take risks themselves and not to rely exclusively on their minions.
-at the beginning a space battle can be very long when players don't know what to do. Keep the first one simple and prepare cards or props to help them figure the rules and what to do.
- Depending on their classes and roles, some of them might have nothing to do during a space battle: ensure that they can do something relevant.
- keep the first game simple. Even do a milk run if you wish : let the players discover what they can do, and be used to their strenghs and weaknesses.
- be prepared to improvise : space is big, and they can go anywhere and focus on anything.

>> No.17344133

The rule with acquisitions is that you can't make an infinite amount in any given time. The core rules have the GM set a limit of how many you can make during a certain period and, if you've got Into The Storm, it's got rules for making additional acquisition tests at an ever rising penalty and risk of misfortune. You can also burn PF to boost an acquisition roll, representing assets being liquidized and holdings sold off to raise the capital for the deal, but in my experience very few people use this. -1 PF for a mere +10 to the roll isn't a great deal.

>> No.17344136

Well, regarding multiple acquisitions in a row within a single session outside of plot use, there's a degree of GM fiat (and optional rules included in Into the Storm). You can't reasonably make 20 acquisition tests in a single game day unless the plot calls for it for some reason. There too is the risk of a critical acquisition failure where you can potentially lose some profit factor. You can also burn profit factor for bonuses on the acquisition in the first place.

What ITS suggests is adding a modifier of -10 for each successive acquisition in a single game. This, with a bit of GM fiat, is the ideal situation in my opinion. The GM can put a stop to them when it's getting silly, and the game mechanics impose their own risks if you keep pressing your luck.

>> No.17344138

Damn, ninja'd by >>17344133

>> No.17344140

I see. Also, i just noticed the part where they say specifically that PF never decreases due to acquisitions. Interesting.
So I guess Misfortune is the only way a Dynasty ever has it's PF lowered.I've never really heard anyone talk about suffering Misfortune in their game session stories, I'm guessing most GMs are afraid to use them.

>> No.17344145

It's not that they're afraid to use them as much as you need something like four or five degrees of failure to make one happen in the first place, and even that's really only possible for big/expensive/both acquisitions, which cautious players tend to avoid. Besides, misfortunes aren't especially dramatic either, and as the book says, a skilled trader will still find a way to turn the misfortune into GREAT fortune.

>> No.17344148

I've used them once or twice but I figure that if I'm going to fuck with the players' resources I'm going to make a thing out of it and, often, that'll detract from what they're currently doing. I sprung one on them while they were tooling about the Malfian Sub while a newly acquired Dauntless got refitted and, long before that near the start of the game, some arbitrators wanted to search their crew for criminals and heretics.

At some point something -terrible- might happen and give the players a very strong reason to respond, but not now. They're currently busy helping an ally with their own misfortune and after that I figure they'll appreciate some autonomy.

>> No.17344249

Thanks for the tips.
I am keeping the first game simpler, I've made and drawn character portraits for main supporting cast, designed and drawn a new, tiny spaceship with a crew of 40 and that is the ~200m in lenght and 150 abeam to ease them into the rules and into space travel. I have no rogue trader character as of now and I've solved it by saying that currently there is no rogue trader in the family and that they have to proxy for them.

For first mission they're going to be captured by ork pirates and after orkz discover they have nothing of value they order them to get something of value for them. After that I have an astropath suggest them possible missions they can do. Easy ones and relatively small scale(few of them which give them an option of outwitting the orkz with major lulz), or they can do the fuck they want. Their current ship will be for free, and they can get a real ship when later PC comes in and takes up the role of rogue trader.

I went for the tiny ship start cause I think it would give them a sense of scale.

>> No.17344267

>designed and drawn a new, tiny spaceship with a crew of 40 and that is the ~200m in lenght and 150 abeam to ease them into the rules and into space travel. I have no rogue trader character as of now and I've solved it by saying that currently there is no rogue trader in the family and that they have to proxy for them.

I sincerely hope that this thing won't be capable of warp travel. Because, if it is, the players are currently holding an insanely valuable archeotech ship that most of the Imperium would gladly kill them to get their hands on.

You're also depriving them of their army of mooks and their flying gothic space city-cathedral. Which is terrible.

>> No.17344318

Part of Rogue Trader is that the PCs don't stand alone. They're powerful, important people. The Rogue Trader comes with an entire dynasty to command, or a section of it at the very least if they're merely an heir. The seneschal is presumed to come with a web of informants and agents. The Arch-Militant will often head up the ship's armsman contingent. The Void-Master will command respect from every voidsman aboard. The Missionary and Explorator will have a host of priests specific to their religions, along with domains aboard the ship. Even the Navigator and Astropath will have those beneath them in the form of lesser members of their respective breeds and personal servants. Having masses of minions and great authority is one of the core themes of the game and there's better ways to emphasise this than to initially deprive your players of these things. If anything it'll teach them to ignore their mooks and act like a group from any other RPG.

Of course, you can go overboard and encourage them rely on mooks too much, but that's a simple enough thing to counter. The PCs will almost always be more capable than their minions, after all, at least until they start using acquisitions to obtain rare and skilled servants.

>> No.17344348

Anyone know where I can find a game running this? I've always wanted to try out RT.

>> No.17344376

People advertise games starting up on /tg/ occasionally, and there's an IRC room on Rizon which all sorts of 40k RPG is based out of. You might also want to try checking for listed games on suptg.

The other alternative is to start your own game, but GMing is a whole different ball park from playing.

>> No.17344417


Nah, I'm not really good with GMing. What's the IRC room?

>> No.17344437

as others have said minions are essential, you should have an inner circle for each of the player characters.

Your trader and co. have lost a big part of what gives them
Influence; manpower! Having 20000+ bodies at your disposal means that you are a force to be recognized no matter where you go. Add into that the ability for orbital bombardment and every negotiation done with one is at gunpoint in some form.

There's also the fact that your ship is smaller than a torpedo. It may also be smaller than an Intrasystem courier ship but don't quote me on that.

>> No.17344444

>sincerely hope that this thing won't be capable of warp travel.
Abnett says that ships of this size capable of warp travel exist, and indeed are so common that no one bats an eye when seeing one.

>> No.17344466

quote plx. The closest thing I've ever heard of is in legacy by Matthew farrer and that was implied/mentioned as being unarmed and warp capability never came into play.

>> No.17344487


I think Eisenhorn mentions this, or it might be one of the Gaunts Ghosts books.

>> No.17344504


Eisenhorn's gun-cutter.

It's 80m long and warp capable.

>> No.17344508

It would have to be salvations reach if it's GG and just because an inquisitor doesn't batt an eye doesn't mean it's not rare as a (female) virgin working inna strip club.

>> No.17344522


No one gives a damn when the cutter hovers next to a building in a city.

Admech would be all over the thing if it was rare too.

>> No.17344528

It was not warp-capable. Too small.

He used to get a ride on the trader ship Essene when he needed to travel from one system to another.

>> No.17344532

dear god it must be for going into system slightly under the radar. There's no space for food, water or living quarters. Logistics people! A nice 2.5 kilometer long ship has plenty of storage space. 80 meters not so much. That's not even going into weapons space and nothing a Rouge Trader uses to visit a planet should be unarmed.

>> No.17344674

Its not warp capable, he has to hitch a ride with Maxilla. However, in Ravenor they ride around on a ship which only has a crew of 40, and is warp capable.

>> No.17344746

It's a gun-cutter. It's in one of the RT books. Let me look.

Aha, Into the Storm.

"The term "Gun-cutter" refers to a variety of armed and armoured spacecraft that can be used for orbit-to-ground transport, hostile landings, or even dog-fighting. They can also be modified to add crew quarters for as many as six and are prized by organizations such as the Inquisition and Rogue Traders (for whom a multipurpose spacecraft is a great asset).

Crew of 5, quarters for 6 additional, max space for 30 people (or equivalent cargo). Not at all warp-capable, I don't know what that first guy was smoking.

>> No.17345038

>> No.17345047

I dont know about underarmed. Should atleast be room for an autocannon or two...or if one would commit the sin of logic a warhound is 20 or so meters, bolt titan weapons to the gun cutter. Should be room for it. But remember kids, logic is a sin in 40k!

>> No.17345089


>autocannon or two; maybe a titan weapon
>not a macrobattery when weakest available to proper ships will hit everything in 10 square kilometer area when doing orbital bombardment

Shit son, you just missed the scale we're talking about.

>> No.17345099

Mate, gun cutter. Not frigate.
A guncutter is about 80 meters, not several kilometers.
Macrocannons are bigger then said guncutter so you cant really fit them onto one. However a warhound is 1/4th the size of said guncutter and so it should be possible to use titan weapons on it. On a proper ship titan class weapons are nothing but point defences. (Bfg rulebook talks about a frigate with hundreds of vulcan mega-bolters for point defences for you who will argue about that)

>> No.17346003

Abnett can fuck right off. He mangled plenty of fluff in his early days. It's your game, of course, but one of the themes of warp travel is that it's a significant undertaking. The amount of power a Rogue Trader has by being able to own multiple warp (which requires great funds) and have the freedom to largely do with them as they please (thanks to their warrant). Everyone else has to struggle to obtain a warp capable craft to run, let alone own, along with the rights to even travel a single pre-determined trade route. Having people zipping about freely in tiny space ship torpedoes those thematics quite soundly.

That said, it's possible to get relatively small ships which are warp capable without being archaeotech. The Viper-class scout sloop is just under 1km long and has a max crew of 7,500. Most ships can run at half their max compliment with only minor penalties, though the viper barely has any room for guns and is pretty fragile. It's never going to moor in-astosphere (though near-orbital docking towers can exist on forge worlds), but it's small and fragile enough that it can make players appreciate an upgrade to a frigate or even a cruiser.

The alternative, if you're really set on having them start with a small ship, is to have them start out as an heir and their lackies doing intra-system business and sorting shit out before earning a true voidship, possibly after a surprise assassination of most of the dynasty's leadership.

>> No.17346036 [DELETED] 

It sends people mad, or worse...

>> No.17346066

It sends people mad, or worse... It wispers to them as they sleep. All it takes is one moments loss of concentration!

>> No.17346095

That's written by Dan Abnett, someone who wanted his character to have a Millenium Falcon and didn't even provide any reason for the gun cutter - he just spat in the face of already existing fluff in order to make the idea of a "personal spaceship" to transport the Inquisitor possible.

Some people rely do turn up their noses at 40K's scale, and prefer things to be on a more personal level. They're too used to 60m long space frigates, without realising that the Star Destroy capital ship from Star Wars is smaller than almost every frigate in the 40K universe.

Then again, to be fair, 40K is OBNOXIOUSLY huge in every way.

>> No.17346097

That's not the warp, dickface. That's an Imperial ship, looking at an Eldar Craftworld, in real-space.

Suck it.


>> No.17346292

>> No.17346362

>Then again, to be fair, 40K is OBNOXIOUSLY huge in every way.

Something every Rogue Trader should aspire to.

As for Eisenhorn, wasn't it written about the same time BFG was coming out and just before how big spaceships were got semi-hard coded into the setting?

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>> No.17348173

What I find hard is keeping the setting moving behind the scenes. There's, what, a few dozen Rogue Traders in the same region of the PCs, some of them much richer and more powerful. Surely they should each be having an affect on the state of the region? But having them meddle too much can diminish the actions of the PCs. Any ideas?

>> No.17348675

That is tricky. Personally I like to just spend a few minutes during my session prep rolling up some random activities for big NPCs (assuming they don't have more pressing concerns). I use some of the same charts that the party uses to explore. So sometimes they find worlds or other resources before the party. This way the setting keeps evolving but it's still up to the players to interact with it.

>> No.17349871

D'you guys prefer having 'nemesis' warships that are frequently in the same area as the party and develop a reputation or a more diverse pallet with lots of variety in the enemy hulls but less familiarity?

>> No.17349888

A bit of both. My group have their rivals, but there's plenty of other threats in the Expanse for them to murder.

>> No.17350917


The way to ease them into the space travel/combat rules is to ease them into the rules. Making their ship bigger or smaller won't actually change anything, except for the guns available to you in ship-to-ship combat. (Which your ship is essentially incapable of, in 40k terms.) Game mechanisms don't scale up or down with ship size; a frigate makes the same number of dice rolls to do Warp travel that a battleship does.

If you don't want to bother them with tracking crew population/morale, then just don't bother tracking it. If you don't want them to do ship-to-ship gun combat, don't have spaceship fights for the first few sessions. It's that easy. Giving them a ship so small that it basically cannot be represented in the rules isn't actually going to help the players to learn those rules.

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