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[ERROR] No.17241558 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Battletech General.

>> No.17241680

Did someone say Battletech? I thought I heard someone say Battletech.

>> No.17241775

Yes you did.
And speaking further on the subject, my friends have approached me about running a campaign against the WoB.
We've got... history with them. And they want to see how their old smalltime-mercenary-company-turned-lucky unit went.

What should I do with this lot?

>> No.17241821

>>17241775
HEAD STRAIGHT FOR TERRA, GUNS BLAZING!

>> No.17241826

>>17241775
Run them through a series of missions involved in putting down a rebellion on a world in the Chaos March, but in the end have it turn out that the "rebellion" was all WoB propaganda, and your group's mercenary company just helped them crush a legitimate government and add another planet to the Protectorate.

>> No.17241860

>>17241775 they want to see how their old smalltime-mercenary-company-turned-lucky unit went.


Well, if you're wanting to keep the general "feel" of the Jihad hit them in their barracks with a chemical or biological agent, or just nuke them offscreen. Bam. You die.

Remember, the writers wiped out entire units because they FORGOT they were "in place X on Y date" and WoB glasses the world. See also: The Black Thorns (who had a sourcebook and a couple of novels). Herb went on record a while back during a GenCon "meet the writers" panel that he would have happily wiped out every mercenary unit, warship, and house unit with more than a company of mechs to its name during the Jihad if he could have done so.

The whole theme behind the Jihad is: "What's your favorite unit? They're dead. Them too. And them. Both of those units are dead too. Oh, you just painted up a single Mech for a unit you've decided to get into? They're dead too. That unit you're THINKING of forming? They're dead. Pre-emptively."

>> No.17241893

Goddammitsomuch. What the hell are my A&A:VaS mini pics doing in my BT mini pics folder? Sorry. There you go.

>> No.17241896

>>17241826
But they only realize it when the faction leader they've been helping tells them that they've got another command coming in to garrison the planet at the end of your group's contract, and it turns out to be the WoBM... so there they are, already entrenched on the planet, about to face down their enemies whom they just helped capture it... will they just go apeshit on everyone right then and there? try to make amends with the remaining pockets of rebel resistance and help them fight a guerrilla war? attempt to infiltrate the WoBM and then stab them in the back when the moment is right?

>> No.17242073

>>17241893
You still have survivors like the Dragoons, albeit theres not much of them that did survive.

And honestly when you pair religious fanatics with weapons of mass destruction, thats the result you should get.

>> No.17242141

Useful. Very useful.
I'm willing to believe the WoB glass worlds. I'm willing to believe that they do so en masse.
But the thing is; these Mercs got LUCKY. With a capital FUCK!!!

I tried to put the spirit of the Jihad all over them last time. You know what they did? They were aboard a Jumpship and WoB sleepers attacked. This was in the old Battletech RPG, mind. The players burned through their Edge to survive a few attacks, got the Bio-chem suits on and threw WP nades everywhere.
They did the stupidest things and I was checking to see if they'd do something stupid like hull breach themselves or expose themselves to toxins.
Nope. Not once. They seemed to know where to curb their destructive tendencies, and somehow came out on top (say what you want, the WoB isn't legion, especially sleepers aboard a single ship). And they saved the day.
They even stopped the WoB's last-ditch effort to destroy the K-F drive and take us out with it.
I don't know what kind of supreme luck they've got, but it's scary.

They then mounted a Naval Gauss rifle on a 150T 'mech (the rest was Mguns and sensors) and fired from the ground to a Jumpship. Critted it. And blew an ammo bay to shit.
I need help.

>> No.17242172

>MFW they made pic related

>> No.17242201

>>17242141
sounds like you and they are doing it right

>> No.17242290

>>17241860
You know, the more I hear of him, the more does this Herb-guy sound like a sour old dingleberry with too much authority for his abilities.

>> No.17242347

>>17242201
Sounds like, doesn't it?
Thing is, the party consisted of a former Jade Falcon Mechwarrior who was on Tukayyid; a Diamond Shark Elemental dropout-turned-martial-arts-instructor; a Smoke Jaguar Bitch backup Mechwarrior; several NPCs who were mainly civilians we roped into being militia; and 'Cajun'.
I think I'll give a description of what the fuck I have to deal with.

The Jade Falcon, Hiru Stiles, managed to prove he deserved a higher rank than he got on the character creation by actually bidding for a new rank.
So I humoured him; setting him up against 3 other clanners all wanting the position. They all bid 'mechs of gradually descending power and he got sick of them just going under his bid by a few points of BV.
>"To the Spheroids with all of you. I will complete the trial in a Firemoth Prime! Can any of you beat THAT bid, quineg?"
He defeated a Hellbringer, Summoner, and Warhawk in that thing. It was close but he did it.
This was an early indicator of his luck.
On Tukayyid he lost his Timberwolf and had an Elemental in his Trinary Supernova jump him onto a Catapult so he could comandeer it. He shot the pilot in the face with a OSP'd Gyrojet rifle and took over. Then when he lost THAT he went Kong with a laser rifle and the Gyrojet rifle in the woods.
...
Took Com Guards a week to find him.
After nearly escaping the POW camp, he was picked up by Solaris VII and fought in a small-scale private stable for over a decade. He took to the new public adoration like a duck to water, where his natural luck and unbelievable gimick of trying to comandeer his enemy if he fell made him known. This is where the party met.

>> No.17242451

>>17242347
>Diamond Shark Elemental dropout-turned-martial-arts-instructor
Named Barret, this was truly a big black man and a half. He started as a martial-arts instructor for civilians and Merchant caste traveler post-Tukayyid. He was good at heavy lifting and pursued the academic arts of maintenance to earn his keep. When he got to the Inner Sphere he left the clan on as good terms as he could, and still has his old Merchant Caste buddies on speed dial (Contact (4)). On Solaris VII he was hired pretty much immediately as a bodyguard and bouncer for various establishments. Eventually he would try to capture a Djinn by grabbing onto it and ripping the face plate off and punching the controller's face inside-out. He lost his arm that day. And since developed a love for advanced mechanics and Ultra-heavy Protomechs and the like. But all that was after he was hired by the same small-time private group as Hiru Stiles, to be personal bodyguard to an Aging Clan Mechwarrior.

He also had TDS.
So we had a big black man who had one metal arm... named Barret.
Fuck.

>> No.17242570

>>17242347
Oh yeah, Barret's first action in the entire game was to pick up as big a chunk of girder he could from a collapsing scaffolding and hurl it at an Uller-Prime's visor. And did enough damage to insta-kill the pilot. MORE natural luck. Those Clanners, man. Those Clanners.
>Smoke Jaguar Bitch backup Mechwarrior
Played by Kai, resident THAT GUY.
She was just made with a basic Trueborn SJ Mechwarrior background. Did a few tours of duty but was captured by pirates and sold off to Solaris VII for a month's supply of rice. Hates Freeborn, hates Solhama warriors, hates informal language, and hates gung-ho attitudes.
When probed for more details, he shrugged.
Piloted 'mechs and not much else.

We eventually killed that bitch when we had a funeral for our 1st casualty. 'Cajun' 'overheard' her saying "Good riddance.".
Barret was sweet on that girl. So he got a 100Kg industrial wrench and belted her across the head with it. Again. And again. Not even Clanner luck could save her from BARRET'S Clanner luck.
Suicide by Barret was henceforth banned by Hiru.

I swear some NPCs were more colourful. Like the Serbian Engineer who kept a few of the more influential stables in good nick between fights with his own group and PMC guardians. Named Karl Sontag. Pic related.
It was said about Carl that if you gave him 100T of steel wool, he'd knit you an Atlas overnight. And not one of those shitty new ones, either. The Good old AS7-D. We saved his ass from an attack and got recognition for it. lulz were had.

>> No.17242585

>>17242290

Oh, not at all. Well, mostly not.

See, I knew him during the early FanPro years, and he was a pretty awesome guy. He still is, when he doesn't have to deal with the fan base. And that's the thing. He's become horrifically embittered about both life in general and BT in specific due almost entirely to actions DIRECTLY attributable to the fan base.

Remember, no matter WHAT the authors do, somebody in the fan base will get pissy. Partially this is due to aspie fans, but it's also due to the extreme factionalism that litters BT fandom (go on the official boards and look for posts by "Nightward", or "MadCapellan" as examples). Because BT is a wargame in a finite universe, for one faction to succeed at something, another must fail (say, to defend a world). Therefore, whenever one faction succeeds at anything, it's a GUARANTEE that fans of the "losing" faction will bombard the writers with flung shit over it. And since that shit flows uphill and stops at his desk, Herb gets ALL of it.

Add into that a divorce, and a layoff from his "real" job due to the location closing, and it's not especially surprising that he's gonna be bitter. Hell, the guy - to my limited understanding, granted - has actually received physical threats to his person from the BT community over the whole CGL Money issue and the Unseen Insanity.

...

>> No.17242618

>>17242585 con't


It may not be excusable for the Line Developer to act in such a way, but frankly it's completely UNDERSTANDABLE. I don't even see it as a matter of professionalism anymore; people are so rude to him and his staff on a consistent, never-ending basis that professionalism simply ceases to enter into it. It's self-defense at this point. So when he mentions wanting to wipe out huge swatches of the Inner Sphere, it's not because he hates BattleTech or other ignorant shit that some people spew out as a trolling point...removing factions and such shit from the game represents the only possibility of his position of Line Dev returning to anything even remotely resembling sanity.

It wouldn't work, of course...it'd just make EVERYBODY mad. But it's understandable.


tl;dr? Blame autistic/aspie fans for making Herb's life such a living hell that the only way to escape is to kill off big chunks of the game. As usual, fans are their own worst enemy.

(Pic semi-related. Herb doesn't have a hard-on for areospace, as idiotic channers here have claimed. He's almost completely indifferent to fighters, and HATES WarShips...as they render ground combat largely pointless if take to their logical conclusion, thus obliviating the need for "BattleTech" at all.)

>> No.17242647

>>17242347
>'Cajun'
I had to look twice at the character sheet. No name but Cajun on it.
He was apparently an FRR Clanwar orphan... but he was far too old to be. He fell in with Mercenaries who taught him the value of mechanics. He became an infantryman in the military training he managed to get, and somehow got extra training as an ODST of sorts.
An FRR ODST. It gets better.
He does 3 tours of duty, then quits. Not wanting to fight anymore. And he pursues his childhood passion: Mechanics.
In a Military Academy.
For 'mechs.
And then does a tour as a 'Mech engineer.

He could, by himself, fix 5 things and make 3: Energy weapons and Actuators could be fixed, but good luck making them. Everything else in his power was Armour (Slap some a-metal onna toppa the 'mech. It don' neeta look pwetty nao. Jus' neeta wowk.), Heatsinks (Gimme a thick hose an' somma dat donkey dick. Okay nao jus' need to drill a bigga ol' hol' inna lotta metal. Now we weld it togeva with gaps between da sheets of metal. Booya! Heatsink!), and Electronics (Solder dat der and gemmi a bitta dat der chip bowad. Kay nao we be gettin da good stuff.)
He would cop insane amounts of hurt and keep going. Mainly to say he'd never fight again, but he'd fight alright.

>> No.17242708

>>17242347
>>17242451
>>17242570
>>17242647
So they all lived through a WoB attack on Solaris VII, met a high-rank Comstar Operative based on Grey Fox with none of the crazy and more multi-lateral skills... and ended the campaign arc with a 150 tonner firing aforementionned Naval Gauss rifle into the reinforcements.
All the while, angry showpony mercenaries who were used to the easy life on Solaris getting their shit together and helping Hiru's smalltime stable tear the WoB's remaining presence apart.

They then liberated\\pushed back WoB assault on Ghost Bear Dominion worlds, and to this day, never stopped moving and fighting.

So what do I do to these guys?
They wanted a world, but knew the risks, so didn't take it. There's a lot they didn't do because of their preferred enemy. And they have Never. Lost. An. Engagement.
Help?

>> No.17242746

>>17242708
10 Mass Drivers shot into whatever planet they happen to be on. That'll teach 'em to fear the Word.

Or two level IIs of Manei Domani in celestials, ether one really.

>> No.17242778

>>17242746
I tried. Several times.
They didn't fear the Word, they only hated them more.
And the Stage IIs? One was eaten by their tech division and the other hunted them to an ACTUAL RETREAT.
And followed them.
Into artillery they had set up on the fly in the form of a Quad 'mech with a jury-rigged Long Tom.
Fucking Clanner luck.

>> No.17242780

>>17242708

Do you want Total Warfare-styled suggestions (wargame), or ATOW-styled (RPG) suggestions?

How "fair" do you want to be? Because depending on where and when they are, you totally can drop a nuke/germ/agent/orbital strike on them, call it a day, and point to the canon timeline for your justification. For instance, if they're on Galedon basically AT ALL during this timespan, they're dead (or if they somehow got offworld, the combined governments of the Inner Sphere will be hunting them down to ensure they don't spread the Plague of Galedon to another world).

Any weird rules or limitations on your campaign we should know about?

>> No.17242806

>>17242778
Okay, as Blake said "Nothing lives on a planet after crashing thirty jumpships into it."
Or something like that...

Wait, a Level II was killed by there Tech team?
Six squads of Nephilims or equivalents?

>> No.17242828

>>17242780
>Fuck you captcha
It's a bit of both.
We play it tabletop and RP at the same time. 2 turns in RPG is 1 round of Tabletop, 20M is 1 hex, 3d6 is 1 damage, etc.
I orbital struck them and invaded them and gassed them and all sorts. When I nuked their little dropship they only got angry and managed to use that goddamn luck to take a BIGGER dropship away from the WoB in radio silence (Angel ECMs made by Cajun a-la-carte).
They're nomads. Though they left for a while to hide in the DC. Nobody expects to find such rare success stories (of in total destroying a Stage III worth of WoB...) in the butt monkey land. They went deep into the territory and we left it there.

I'm going for fluffy and realistic. Sure the WoB isn't fair, but they only seem that way because they act the way your average non-good PC would act with the same resources.
The resource gap is the main thing here, it would seem.
Though I would like to have fun with them, not just Gygax the bastards.

>> No.17242862 [DELETED] 

>>17242806
No. Crushed by Aforementioned 150T monster.
Apart from the HEAVY cannon, they festooned it with Anti-BA gear. Then they threw away the cannon later on for an Arrow IV.
The tech division devoured the salvage for bits and schematics.

As for crashing Jumpships into a planet. I never thought of that.
And I don't think this little thorn in their side would attract such a large amount of the WoB's specific ire. Incidental engagements was all these guys have seen.

>> No.17242890

>>17242806
No. It was a mixed force Stage II. The 'mechs were Crushed by Aforementioned 150T monster.
And apart from the HEAVY cannon, they festooned it with Anti-BA gear. They also threw away the cannon later on for an Arrow IV.
And we had multiple other 'mechs.
The tech division devoured the salvage for bits and schematics.

As for crashing Jumpships into a planet. I never thought of that.
And I don't think this little thorn in their side would attract such a large amount of the WoB's specific ire. Incidental engagements was all these guys have seen.

>> No.17242913

>>17242828 Though I would like to have fun with them, not just Gygax the bastards.


OK, that's kinda the operative phrase here. so we won't do shit like having a LIII of Manei Domini stealthed-up cyborgs HALO drop onto their barracks in the middle of the night and kill everyone in their sleep.

Instead, let's look at the cost/benefit analysis here. So far, attempts on the part of the WoB to take out this merc unit have cost them a LII of Manei Domini and their Celestials, and a JumpShip. At least. And it will cost them even more to deal with these mercs in the future.

So don't deal with them. What does the WoB really specialize in? Manipulating information. Frame the mercs in question for something. You can go all Grey Death Legion on them and frame them for a massacre they didn't commit, or (and this is my preference) ensure that the Clan Watch discovers that they're doing something very naughty. Harboring a remnant of Kerensky's bloodline, maybe (timeline depending). Or that one of their Tech is a descendant of Amaris (see also: the novel "Star Lord") or related to Clan Wolverine somehow. This latter one, especially, WILL cause the Ghost Bears to flip the fuck out and come after them. Remember - during this time period, the GB are hunting down a Wolverine/WoB connection, and just land, kill EVERYBODY nearby, and ask questions later.

Now you've got a campaign where the PCs are being hunted by people JUST AS GOOD AS THEY ARE, and have to get to the bottom of everything and prove their innocence (and hopefully go after the WoB precentor who set them up).

>> No.17242970

>>17242913
What mech is that? It's on the tip of my tongue.

>> No.17242989

>>17242890
You said they stole a bigger dropship, and got rid of Level IIs.

Yeah the Word be hatin' on them. However >>17242913 is right. Just frame them for anything, say they want to put Sphereiod gene into a clan's truenames

>> No.17242997

>>17242970
Gargoyle.

>> No.17243012

>>17242997
Thanks.

>> No.17243024

>>17242913
I love you.
Though, as I've said time and again, these Mercs, dubbing themselves the Renegades, have a love for 3 things: Salvaging ANYTHING, Stealth, and Not having a base. Their so-called Barracks is a gutted and renovated Heavy Dropship loaded to the brim with EW suites and minimal weapons. Lotsa armour though.
Hell, when they approached me for this reprise, they said that IF the Renegades settled upon a world, they'd do it to some far-off back-woods rock with little to do and no reason to bother with them.
They'd then begin hiring, etc.
Point is, when questioned about fortifications, their overall idea was "Turrets emplacements are just tactically slow vehicles, bases are dropships like our last one, and long-range scanners are aerospace scout ships."
They really don't want a stationary base.

>"And if the WoB thinks sacrificing 6 K-F drives into a world's destruction is small potatoes, why does 1 Jumpship matter so much to them?"
Their words upon hearing the idea.
I like it though.

>> No.17243053 [DELETED] 

Their reason for not wanting a stationary base is because I did glass a world. They just got off in time to see the pretty lights.

Being framed for shit works well though.
I think it'll be something simple. Simple like saying the Renegades work WITH the WoB. Just look at how much of their tech they're using!

>> No.17243077

>>17243053
Blame that nuked place on them. Say they were working for the WORD there, and that's why they're still alive.

>> No.17243083

Their reason for not wanting a stationary base is because I did glass a world. They just got off in time to see the pretty lights.

Being framed for shit works well though.
I think it'll be something simple. Simple like saying the Renegades work WITH the WoB. Just look at how much of their tech they're using!

>> No.17243144

>>17243077
Yeah. Gonna.
It'll work especially well now that the only ones who would speak out for the Renegades (if they even would) is Comstar and maybe some Clan Diamond Shark merchants.

>WoB says Renegades are on their side to media.
>Gullible I.S. and Clans believe it immediately.
>Comstar comes in to say no, they don't work with the WORD.
>Shut up Comstar, get out of here.
>Comstar puts hands in pockets to bring up noteputer full of proob the WoB is wrong.
>Spaghetti everywhere.
>etc.

>> No.17243145

>>17242970
>>17242997

Gladiator/Executioner.

Gargoyle's the 5/8/0 80-tonner with the dual LB5Xs (pictured on the far left). Gladiator's the 4/6/4 95-tonner with x2 ERLL and a Gauss Rifle.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Executioner_%28Gladiator%29

>> No.17243157

>>17243145
I always get them confused for some reason.

>> No.17243183

>>17243157

No worries. I do too. I think it's the combination of the "G" names between the Clan Gargoyle moniker and the Inner Sphere name Gladiator...added to the Man O War Inner Sphere name for the Gargoyle logically matching up in one's head to the "Gladiator" moniker.

Having 2 names for mechs is confusing. Cool that they did it...annoying as heck sometimes though.

>> No.17243222

Only played Battletech one or twice. I really liked the game but not a huge fan of the models. besides Reaper any one have any suggestions for alternatives for the mechs?

>> No.17243292

>>17243183
Aha! Further evidence that the majority of robots' names start with the letter "G". Just ask /m/!

>> No.17243299

>>17243183

>> No.17243313

>Now you've got a campaign where the PCs are being hunted by people JUST AS GOOD AS THEY ARE, and have to get to the bottom of everything and prove their innocence (and hopefully go after the WoB precentor who set them up).

Excellent.
After bringing this concept to them, the players did a bit of the old waily-waily. But that's to be expected.
So, on their behalf, how well would they be able to hide after changing their livery and name and all that, then hide in some place deep in the DC?

>> No.17243315

>>17243222
-Heavy Gear
-see what if any non-Battletech mechs Ral Partha's got
-any little plastic toy robot that doesn't take up more than an inch of ground
-use the (slightly larger) Dark Age miniatures
-realize that while there's a lot of shitty designs, there's also some really nice ones and you'll be damned if you're not going to pick and choose the sexy-looking 'Mechs

>> No.17243344

>>17243313
Holo-pics, they better change thier faces, and the Clans might hunt them down through thier genes. So, they shouldn't make the WORD any more angry, and try and get the House on thier side.

>> No.17243352 [DELETED] 

>>17243222
If you're after some nice designs for looks, you could try the Dark age\\Clan 'mechs.
Though Clan has a nasty handicap in their BV.

>> No.17243397

>>17243344
>Change their faces
Hiru's Asian, he'll be fine.
But in all seriousness, they're probably going to be fine with that. They might try taking on apprentices and new recruits in the meantime. They're not looking to settle down, but more boost their numbers.
At this stage I'm sure the only way to get them to stop moving is of they think the WoB has decided to stop following.
And when they do think this, they say TIME TO MAKE MORE!
They immediately began planning forces using capital and favours they'd be able to pull in with the bounty on their heads. They're taking this seriously but with a hint of Kamina.

I think they want to take a WoB world (probably with the precentor orchestrating their smear campaign) or die in a blaze of glory.
Now I would like for them to be ABLE to succeed, but I'm not giving it to them on a plate.
What garrison forces would be planetside and what reinforcements could they get in the short-term.
As for what world, I don't care which. One that's within reach and not a rounded Borg cube.

>> No.17243509

>>17241826

Step 1: Do as >>17243397 suggested and have them pacify a world for WoB without realizing it (e.g., proxies, etc.).

Step 2: Have the WoB let the word get out who really hired them. For an added Fuck You, make sure the WoB goes open season on a few populations centers in the process.

Step 3: Your guys try to clear their name while taking down the precenter who fucked them while simultaneously surviving the fury of every major power in the area who thinks they're Blakist scum.

>> No.17243606

>>17243509
>That'stheplan!.jpg

Now they're counting everything.
The poor fools have decided to go with Comstar formations in a Clan way. They've got (In total) a Stage III's worth of gear.
They're proper fucked.

>> No.17243621

>>17243606
They decided to organise their forces, like their enemy?
Yeah, they're fucked.

>> No.17243818

So now, they've hit me with their basic force use.
They're calling a Dropship a Stage II on its own.
1 Stage II of 'mechs
1 Stage II of combat technician VTOL Battle armour
1 Stage II of 3 Transport VTOLs and an Aerospace fighter.
1 Stage II of 3 Tanks, 2 support vehicles (MBF\\Triage) and 5 PROTOMECHS
1 Stage II of Mixed Infantry.

The Word's plan is to let these Renegades get close. They'll let them come into their territory and act as if they've got the drop on the PDF there.
The Renegades will fight and die on this world. If they don't all die then there will be lots of attrition on their side.
There will be limited resources for them to steal or waste. They'll think they've got the drop.
Then the Word will reveal themselves to be their employers and that their money will be deposited forthwith, followed by an orbital landing en masse of Manei Domini and the general population will be gassed and glassed.

Should the Renegades try to leave, they'll see the news saying how they collaberated with the WoB from OUTSIDE sources. In fact from a plea of help by the civilians on a HPG frequency. Naming the Renegades.
If they stay and fight, they'll die. To a man.
If they try and evacuate whoever they can, they'll still be vilified by the majority, but those they take with them will be a good point on their conscience.

Amidoinitrite?
>trollfacingPrecentor.jpg

>> No.17243884

But one question remains...
What forces does the WoB devote to this farce?
I'm thinking a vast majority of CASPAR III Long-range chassis (both to waste little manpower and not get too ECM'd up).
How much? Etc.

>> No.17244238

>>17242347
>On Tukayyid he lost his Timberwolf and had an Elemental in his Trinary Supernova jump him onto a Catapult so he could comandeer it. He shot the pilot in the face with a OSP'd Gyrojet rifle and took over. Then when he lost THAT he went Kong with a laser rifle and the Gyrojet rifle in the woods.

This is much better than chatty zombie Falcons.

>> No.17244253

>>17244238
Chatty Zombie Falcon?

>> No.17244320

>>17244253

Origin story of Clan Jade Falcon - the founder's mech got blown up, she was SAAAD. So her dead Jade Falcon swooped down, gave her a pep talk and a Katana and sent her off to kill dudes.

>> No.17244347

>>17244320
Oh Right. Goddamn bird got a 'Mech named after it, too.

>> No.17244358

>>17244347

Nice image, but the tiny cockpit makes it look like the mech's a Superheavy.

>> No.17244606

You know, I can't help but feel the Jihad could easily have been fixed by simply having more comprehensible source material and letting the non-Wobbies actually win every now and then instead of RAPERAPERAPE until lolDevlin rolls up. The Clan Invasion being the prime example of how letting the losing side win every now and then by exploiting their weaknesses can actually turn out quite awesome.

>> No.17245048

>>17244606
>letting the non-Wobbies actually win every now and then
But they did win every now and then.

>> No.17245107

>>17245048
Yes, but it wasn't really anything major or important, and it usually ended with a Wobbie nuke anyway. It was more of a footnote buried somewhere. Until '74, it was pretty much all losses all the time.

We never got a Wolcott, or a Radstadt or any battle where defenders gave the invaders a bloody nose and sent them skulking back to lick their wounds. We got "Word of Blake forces are repelled, but not before deploying weapons of mass destruction".

Now, don't get me wrong, I actually like the Jihad as a whole. WWII in space is a fine platform to build on. The problem is how it was handled. Let's face it, the best parts of it were the resistance fighters beating back the Blakist menace against all odds. That's where the focus should have been, but it largely failed to capitalize on it, partially because the only books worht reading are Final Reckoning and the Blake Documents.

I maintain the story Eisenjäger from Total Warfare is probably the best piece of Jihad fiction written, and it's only a couple of pages long. Perfectly captures what it should have been. Dudes in busted up tanks making the ultimate sacrifice to fight an overwhelming threat.

>> No.17245120

I used to be a mechwarrior like you, but then I took an Arrow-IV to my Rifleman's leg joint.

>> No.17245131

>>17245120
I just wish to let you know that when I Highlander bury your ass, you will know why.

>> No.17245133

>>17245120

I guess they found the remaining 2 points of CT armour somewhere afterwards.

>> No.17245135

>>17241558

OP your pic is incredibly stupid.

The artist should realise that metal dosnt shatter like that.

>> No.17245136

>>17241860

I think the wipe outs were completely reasonable. Multi-regiment sized mercenary units are just fucking retarded even for BattleTech. When you added up all the multi-regiment mercenary units they were basically an extra House worth of military forces.

Mercenary forces IRL almost never worked like that. There might be a leadership core who arranged contracts, but then they would go recruit smaller groupings of men to make up their force size needed to fulfil the contract. Multi-regiment size merc forces did not exist continuously for decade upon decade.

A unit that size is to potentially destabilising that no sane leader would allow it. Mercs have always been useful but the usual way of things was to hire them into a unit run mostly by regular officers.

Even modern Private Military Contractors do not maintain standing armies. They hire individual mercs to fulfil a specific contract. The permanent staff of the company is actually pretty small.

BT mercs should have been massive at a few battalions. The standard merc group should have been the lance, which would be hired to work with other lances and individuals under regular House officers. Big merc groups would have been able to field a whole company.

This is how I am retconning things in my personal 3020's campaign.

>> No.17245170

>>17245136
Of course, with interstellar travel working the way it does and JumpShips/DropShips being relatively rare, at least early on, it makes sense for independents to form larger communes. The Periphery Field Manual outright states that pirates tend to form larger communes despite the increased risks for this very reason.

And then you have mercenaries like the Eridani Light Horses, who are more or less military regiments that have formed private armies.

Of course, I still agree with the decision to trim down the influence of mercenaries, if not their methods in doing so, because let's face it, most mercenary groups were author pets that constantly triumphed against all odds. They should be important and influential, but not able to take on entire regiments of House forces.

>> No.17245199

>>17245107

>Implying Dead Men Walking isn't the best piece of Jihad fiction

"Whats that Scientist? I have contracted lethal levels of radiation poisoning from the dirty bomb the Blakists threw at our vanguard? Bitch please, pump me full of suppressors and I will take a Nova of those warriors who are also dying directly through the worst zone of radiation to attack the Blakists as they load onto their dropships."

>> No.17245213

>>17245136
>The standard merc group should have been the lance, which would be hired to work with other lances and individuals under regular House officers.
The vast majority of mercenary groups were always very small in size. You just never heard of them, because they were too small to be noteworthy.

>> No.17245232

>>17245170
>Of course, with interstellar travel working the way it does and JumpShips/DropShips being relatively rare, at least early on, it makes sense for independents to form larger communes.

Only if the mercs own a jump ship, which is pretty much fucking retarded on its own at least for large jump ships. A tramp freighter that can haul a battalion? Sure. A mega-freighter that can haul multiple regiments? No fucking way, something that big would get nationalised by the SSW.

Also the issue of jump ships works perfectly fine with the regular officers + individual contractors model of mercenary work. The House furnishes the jump ship for the deployment, and the contract stipulates the mercs get dropped back at a hiring planet at the conclusion of the contract.

Smaller units can just buy passage on regular commercial freighters.

Also units like the ELH might have started as a multi-regiment SL force but should have been beaten down by attrition until they were "reasonably" sized. Most real armies can't afford to run full TOE, so no reason a merc unit descended from a military unit should maintain its TOE over several hundred years.

>> No.17245252

>>17245232
>The House furnishes the jump ship for the deployment, and the contract stipulates the mercs get dropped back at a hiring planet at the conclusion of the contract.
This is how it works for some of them. It is noted to be a particularly shitty arrangement, since Great Houses have a tendency to see mercenaries as expendable troops. Activating an escape clause is kind of pointless when you're dependent on your employer to withdraw.

>> No.17245265

>>17245213
>The vast majority of mercenary groups were always very small in size. You just never heard of them, because they were too small to be noteworthy.

Sorry, I don't buy that line, it is simply weasling to try and ignore the Fiction Vehicle units.

And really the issue isn't "the average merc group", it is that dozens upon dozens of regiment and above mercenary groups is just too destabilising to exist and counter to how mercenaries have tended to operate throughout history.

Big name units should exist on paper between contracts and hire to fill the TOE for a contract.

>> No.17245279

>>17245252

I know that. However given the scarcity of jump ships a mercenary unit owning a significantly sized one is just not believable.

If a unit owns drop ships they can just boost for orbit and wait for a commercial jump ship. Unless the merc group has hired on with a bunch of moustache twirlers they aren't going to get fucked with then.

And I am not talking about what did happen, but what should have happened. BT has way to much "tell not show" that contradicts what it is telling us (eg "jump ships are rare, every mercenary company owns one", "BattleTechs are precious commodities, oh wait no lets throw them away like cannon fodder because mercs are piloting them").

Early on they had a nice setting established but made it silly by putting the scale of forces an order of magnitude or two above what that setting could have sustained.

>> No.17245280

>>17245199
>A heartbeat later, a quartet of PPC bolts washed over his crippled Manteuffel, boiling away the armor to flash-fry the crew inside in a blinding burst of white-hot particles. But even in death, Sergeant Major Rolf Solomon knew one last moment of victory. At the end of the day, the Eisenjäger got their man.
I respectfully disagree, sir.

>> No.17245301

>>17245279
>Unless the merc group has hired on with a bunch of moustache twirlers they aren't going to get fucked with then
That's pretty much every Great House ever. Even the FedSuns would hire mercenaries and send them on suicide missions against Wobbies to try out the performances of their new 'mech designs.

>> No.17245334

>>17245301

Which is why I said I wasn't talking about how things worked in the fiction, because a lot of the fiction is not only internally inconsistent but plain stupid (ie real mercs do not sign on with employers who have a high chance of sending them on a suicide mission because mercs expect to be able to spend their money).

I am talking about taking the base setting of the 3020's and making it internally consistent and reasonable (and to ditch purely drama devices like moustache twirling House lords).

The Jihad was an attempt to pound the setting back down to a scale that more closely matched the original setting. I prefer to just retcon from the beginning.

>> No.17245374

>I prefer to just retcon from the beginning.

Because experience has taught us how well that works and how that totally does not end in: LOL THERE HARE MULTIPLE UNIVERSES BECAUSE WE REFUSE TO EVER LET GO OF ANYTHING THAT'S MAKING MONEY FOR US EVER!

>> No.17245403

>>17245334
To each their own. Personally, I ran a MechWarrior campaign where I altered the Jihad. Basically, the Wobbies failed to take Terra, which lead to ComStar shifting focus from the Clans to the Word. This in turn caused them to come in direct conflict with the FWL, which sparked a war. Essentially, instead of the Wobbies taking Terra and creating secret super-factories, they simply integrated themselves further into the FWL, eventually using it to form the Protectorate of Blake.

The idea was to make it more of a Cold War, with two power blocs using other states to fight their wars for them, eventually turning into all out war between the Blakists and ComStar, with the other IS powers cauht in between and forced to choose sides. It also served to make the Wobbies less of the nuke-happy bad guys, and turn both sides into massive pricks willing to use any means necessary to win a war of ideologies.

>> No.17245418

Did you see those mechs from the Draconis Combine?

They have curved swords.

Curved.

Swords.

>> No.17245430

>>17245418
>The Draconis Combine captured many HCT-3Fs, but could not convince their samurai to pilot a 'Mech that wielded a "barbaric" ax. It would be many years before the Combine engineers developed the Sword, and even more until they modified their Hatchetmen to utilize it.

Katanas are a big deal in the Combine.

>> No.17245446

>>17245430
does anyone have the battletech sword copypasta

>> No.17245453

>>17245430

That's because they are too weeaboo to face the actual reality of samurai fiction.

>> No.17245495

>bawww mercenaries in the battle tech universe don't work how mercenaries in history did!!!

Guess what? Its a thousand years in the future. Who's to say that fifty years from now, a regimental sized Mercenary unit didn't become standard issue due to some new development? Who's to say that in a future where military forces are ten times the size of any army the earth has ever seen, that a mere regiment isn't a drop in the goddamn bucket?

TL;DR Make your own setting if you don't like this one.

>> No.17245496

>>17245430
>Add Axe to the Kintaro
>Paint it red
>You can not count how few fucks I give

>> No.17245514

>>17245446
That's it. I'm sick of all this "1 damage/per 10 tons of attacking 'Mech" bullshit that's going on in the BattleTech system right now. Swords deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine sword on New Samarkand for 2,500 C-Bills (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid endo steel with my sword.

Draconis Combine techs spend years working on a single sword and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Swords are thrice as sharp as FedCom hatchets and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a hatchet can cut through, a sword can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a sword could easily bisect an AS7-K with ferro-fibrous armor with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why ComStar never bothered conquering the Draconis Combine? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their swords of destruction. Even in the Ghost Bear war, Clan soldiers targeted the No-Dachis first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Swords are simply the best physical 'Mech weapon that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the BattleTech system. Here is the stat block I propose for swords:

Physical Weapon
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
To-hit Modifier: +5
Damage Value: 1/per 1 tons
To-hit Location Table: Punch

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of swords in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Swords need to do more damage in BattleTech, see my new stat block.

>> No.17245573

>>17245514
>To-hit Modifier: +5
That's one shitty weapon.

>> No.17245605

>>17245573
Ah, it was supposed to be -5.

>> No.17245654

>>17245496
Haters gonna hate.

>> No.17245667

>>17245334

Even in pounding it back, the entire universe is a bunch of fucked up and unreasonable economic and technological fuck ups.

I'd be a lot happier with the fluff aspect if they would get their shit together in those aspects moving forward.

>> No.17245866

>>17245667

They might simply not have the expertise to fix that, or even to notice that something's wrong... sort of like how they depend on former fan-artists for all of their illustrations...

>> No.17245927

>>17245866
I think it's more of a Star Wars EU thing, where they'd rather try to explain the retardation than go wild with retcons. Also, BattleTech doesn't have that many retcons to begin with. I certainly can't think of any.

>> No.17246019

>>17245927

They do no retcon, which means that we'll forever have to deal with the JES I and other terrible vehicles from the Dark Age game.

>> No.17246028

>>17245927
This, more or less. Hell, the Blake Documents does its damndest to make sure even the Dark Age and Devlin Stone end up being less derptastic. Sure, they do this by implying Devlin Stone was a "just as planned" ploy by the Master to resurrect the Star League, but it sure beats MechWarrior Jesus. There's a certain comfort in the policy of "what's done is done", even if it also means we have to accept that we need to deal with the shitty parts.

>> No.17246063

>>17245927

One of BattleTech's "Main" attributesm, from the very first FASA days, is that "nothing gets retconned". The designers aren't about "LOL THERE HARE MULTIPLE UNIVERSES BECAUSE WE REFUSE TO EVER LET GO OF ANYTHING THAT'S MAKING MONEY FOR US EVER!" as >>17245374 retardedly claims. It's a deliberate choice so as NOT to invalidate the money that fans have already spent. They're doing it to help fans, not dick them over.

Now, it hasn't always been held to, that "no retcon" thing. However, major units (Light Horse, etc) and major units (Mauler, Atlas) and major events (Clan Invasion) will never be retconned, while details occasionally may be. This is especially true when talking about details from very early sourcebooks before the game line really got a good "handle" on the timeline of the game.

A good example is the rarity of JumpShips mentioned upthread. The JumpShips/Dropships book (FASA #1619, and was about the 5th book produced for the game in total) gives the number of JumpShips in the Inner Sphere as 2,500. The problem was, the level of trade and industry described in THAT VERY BOOK can't be maintained with only 2,500 JumpShips. Tis internal inconsistency persisted until StratOps, when it was mentioned that the "2,500" number was in error (it actually meant the number of JumpShips not in government-controlled hands, and thus might be available for purchase) and the actual number was at LEAST an order of magnitude higher, and perhaps two orders higher. Putting the real number of JumpShips at somewhere between 25,000 and 250,000 (most of TPTB agree on about 150,000-175,000) allow for the level of trade given in sourcebooks and enough JumpShips to actually transport the militaries we hear about.

So, a retcon? Yes. But a retcon to make the game more internally consistent.

>> No.17246069

>>17245927
Generally nothing really big.
The main thing that pops in my head is TRO fluff and battlemech development.
For instance, the Orion was originally referred to as the first true heavy mech, and other profiles point to mechs as gradually getting bigger and heavier, then they finally stat the Mackie and it's 100 tons.

>> No.17246072

>>17246019
What is wrong with that vehicle, or even the Marksman tank

>> No.17246081

>>17246028
>Master resurects Star League
>WoB goes on to resurect the Rim World Republic

>Glorious Phoenix II and Rampage II master race!

>> No.17246132

>>17246028
Actually, that was Final Reckoning.

While we're on the subject, has anyone heard anything about why they decided to continuously release confusing piece of shit books for the duration of the Jihad? I can assume they got negative feedback after the first one, so why release more in the same style? Seriously, the Blake Documents give more insight than the rest of the books combined, even if a lot of it seems dangerously close to retcons and/or asspull explanations ("No, the Wobbies had pretty much shit all in terms of armies! In fact, ComStar pretty much outnumbered them! How did they consistently kick the shit out of enemy forces several times as large even in straight up brawls? ROM did it!") for shit people complained about.

>> No.17246141

That's one thing I respect about BT: pretty much everything is canon, unless it's directly contradicted by something else that's MORE canon (and even then they'll integrate it somehow: See, the BT Cartoon).

So here's what I'm wondering; is BT moving towards some kind of new edition moving forward, for the post-dark-age era? They seem to be going towards a situation where clans and IS nations are more blended. I wonder if it's just the timeline advancing, or if they're moving towards a new edition of the rules, too.

I'm thinking the post-Dark Age "renaissance" is going to see a bunch of differences, like division of units into say "Clan/Royal House" quality (better tech, mech-heavy), vs. "Garrison/Inner Sphere" quality (lower tech, combined arms), maybe with a third "Primitive/Resistance" category (primitive tech, trucks, Industrialmechs, etc...) too.

Each faction has units of different quality levels available, but you can have some balance between the different kinds and mix and match more. (Also, make it resemble the medieval european feel a bit more: Knights in the "royal" category, republican cities like in Italy with "garrison" quality troops and peasant uprisings in the "primitive" category)

Then, collate all the rules together, you could streamline them a fuckton, standardize a lot more rules and which tech is available to who and to which kinds of units, and maybe even cut the number of tables down by an order of magnitude.

Thoughts?

>> No.17246176

>>17242141

You can prevent it from happening by letting them know officially, you can't mount naval-class (or sub for that matter) weapons on a 'Mech, even a superheavy.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,11961.0.html

>> No.17246207

>>17246141

I don't see what you're getting at. You can play that already without any rule-changes and that the royal units in the IS use clantech and the top-units in the clans have Omnis out of their ass is already an established fact.

What could happen politically is that the Successor States will be forced to change simply because the Jihad has lead to an increase in industrial output on too many planets, which in turn could strenghten the independance/local autonomy movements.

Plus they kinda demonstrated that they had no clothes and that their nonexistant pants were all the way down to their ankles when the WoB struck out at world formerly even untouched by the succession wars.

Which funnily enough would probably mean that the Kuritas and the Cappies with their recent resinification-policy are going to be the next big players.

>> No.17246231

>>17246019

The good news there is that what Catalyst can (and does do) is write in "upgrades" to the originals, or variants. So you've got a JES I Upgrade that boosts the engine up from a dinky 15-rated all the way to a 165, putting it into a respectable speed bracket instead.

>> No.17246236

I'm mostly thinking of the number of plot points where every IS nation seems to be getting its own "pet clan" of some kind or another. The Lyrans have the wolves in exile, draconis combine has the nova cats, rashalague has the bears, even castille has the scorpions.

Granted the relationships are different, but there's not much point in the hard line between "clan" and "IS" tech anymore. It seems like some kind of set-up towards a rearrangement that'll need to be reflected in the rules somewhere down the line.

>> No.17246285

>>17246236

The XTRO's begin to point much the same way- we're going to eventually see "Clantech" just simply be a better grade of technology- TRO 3085 already shows that so called "mixed-tech" designs go from being experimental to merely advanced design work.

The post-DA era will, IMHO begin the full intergration of tech, as it'll have been over a century since the two tech bases came together. We'll still see everything from cheapo stuff like the Arbiter through cutting-edge new designs that mix in the finest stuff around.

And then the Homeworld Clans/WoB/Wolverines will return with a NEW level of tech courtesy of the post-Reaving stuff and shit will be fucked up once again.

>> No.17246309

>>17246236
The Clans really don't share, though. Unless they're Diamond Sharks, who don't give a fuck about anything. The Nova Cats and Ghost Bears mostly keep to themselves, and they don't really have the ability to manufacture much in the way of Clantech in the Inner Sphere even if they wanted to. I seem to recall Davion targeting computers taking longer to make than the vehicles they're strapped to.

>> No.17246335

>>17246236
I dunno sometimes. While they keep adding new tech, they seem to shy away from letting something go totally obsolete, with the exception of stuff the Clans stopped using.
Look at how they just won't let standard ACs die with the special rounds.
Made even more hilarious since one of the big things of the LB-X was that it could use an alternative round.

>> No.17246340

I pretty much lost all interest in BT when they killed off the St.ives Compact but the newer non battlemech stuff has been drawing my attention again. Battle armor was always a awesome concept and the new aerospace fighters are pretty interesting. I even got a new favorite mercenary unit in the Medusans.
Space and orbital superiority takes away a lot of the importance of ground battles but that doesn't make it any less awesome.

>> No.17246378

>>17246340
To be fair, the St. Ives Compact was never "killed off". It was incorporated into the Capellan Confederation, while still remaining largely independent. Hell, it still has its own military, ranks and limited autonomy in terms of politics.

>> No.17246394

>>17246378
Being a captured bitch of a Capellan is still being a bitch. I feel sorry for them.

>> No.17246403

>>17246340

Even there, you've got some hope. Warships are...well, rare post-Jihad -> Dark Ages. The investment in keeping them up vs. the losses involved in trashing one means you see more invested in building combat-capable Dropships, some with orbit-to-ground weaponry...but they're far more fragile, so unless a defender is utterly out of aerospace assets, they've got a chance. Plus, you don't want to orbital bombard the shit you're trying to capture, and it's considered barbaric at best. Glassing planets is Blakist shit, and pretty much guaranteed to get you persona non grata with everyone...welcome to piracy.

>> No.17246408

>>17246340

Man, what's with you? You're not a clan player whose Clan got eradicated.

It's not like anyone's gonna stop you from fielding Victors and PPC Blackjacks in the same units in the colours of the Compact. Worst case you can simply field them as Cappies.

>> No.17246436

Running a St. Ives rebellion scenario sounds like a good time. With capellans as the antagonists you can fight against all kinds of sneaky shit.

They should just get rid of the LBX/AC distinction (or make LBXes be for clan units, and ACs for Regular ones) - just make the difference be between regular ACs and Ultras, where regular ones get all the special rounds (precision, AP, cluster, etc) and Ultras fire twice. Also, give ultras the un-jamming rules that rotary ACs have.

It'd make sense politically for most of these nations to have that kind of division in their militaries. You'll need a handful of elites to keep the planets in line, but they'll still need local troops to fend off pirates and bandits. And it's not like you want to nuke places from orbit that you want to keep.

>> No.17246443

>>17246394
Hey, you're lucky. They killed off tons of factions more important than the Compact. Being invaded AND still maintaining a largely autonomous state is pretty sweet.

>> No.17246478

>>17246443
Four walls around you with a stone ceiling is still a political prison. There's been upheavals in the Inner Sphere for less. I mean, damn, you had the Federated Commonwealth together, and they could have done something great together, but the freaking Lyrans gotta be all, "IT'S MY TURN!" and cause a civil war. Capellans are sneaky as rats, sure, but they aren't the most sane people in the world. You let that fire of discontentment flame and there's not enough water in the galaxy that will take out a fire kindled with the appropriate kindling. Think about one thing, say what you what about how the Compact was formed and by who's actions, but the FedSuns let St. Ives be the St. Ives, even after centuries of hell. That takes a lot of decency.
All you have to do is turn the screws on the Capellans, and no matter how sneaky they are, they will have to squeeze the people in the Compact which will be enough for the gates of hell to open up and House Liao to be a memory, and there to be a new house lord, one friendly with the FedSun, House Ives.
I would like to see that.

>> No.17246488

>>17246436
>Also, give ultras the un-jamming rules that rotary ACs have.
Agreed, though RAC rules for clearing should be altered in that case, mainly less of a modifier to the roll, or maybe let you clear the jam without the movement/firing restriction.
Or maybe you can choose, don't fire weapons or run and clear using just gunnery skill, or do both with the usual modifier.

>> No.17246490

>>17246436

The Ultras seemed to have been kinda fucked over by the appearence of RACs on one and special ammo on the other side, yeah.

>> No.17246500

>>17246408

Better dead then cultist slaves screaming "Xin sheng".

Makes the Medusans even more awesome in my eyes since they successfully took out a Capellan warship.

>> No.17246570

>>17246500
You... are aware that the St. Ives compact has always had a sizeable minority of people who self-identify as Capellan and that it was ruled by a Liao, right?

>> No.17246605

>Reading Handbook Major Periphery States
>Old lady talking about fighting mech-sized dragons and gigantic flying spiders

Forget about Natasha Kerensky, man, this is the shit.

>> No.17246631

>>17246605

Heck, there's worlds in the Inner Sphere with megafauna big enough to make high-caliber rifles kid's varmint guns, and the average farmer packs the equivalents of man-portable support weapons in the truck in case something gets uppity.

Many of which will attack a 'Mech. And be capable of damaging it, though the 'Mech will likely rape it firing back.

>> No.17246750

>>17246570

So? That's no justification for the Xin sheng invasion.

One of the main points of the St.ives Compact was to have that unique culture but without the crazy.

>> No.17247045

>>17246750
Actually, they were exactly as crazy as the Capellans. It was only independent for 30 years and the Capellans didn't really do anything crazy in the meantime. Hell, if anything the rise of Sun-Tzu made them far less crazy than before the St. Ives secession.

Also, if we take into account the Compact was founded on the oh-so-sane idea of "if you're going to execute my traitorous lover for crippling our military so badly it will take over two decades to recover, I'm taking my ball and going home," I'm inclined to say the Compact are the crazy ones.

>> No.17247222

>>17246631

Reminder that there is a pllanet named Hunter's Paradise which is literally choked with monsters like this, including the famous "T-Rex II" - which is named because it looks like a slightly bigger version of the extinct tyrant lizard.

People go on safari there. People GO ON SAFARI there. WHAT THE FUCK

>> No.17247249

>>17247222
Hey, it may be the 31sy century but somebody's gotta catch them all, I mean shoot them all.

>> No.17247308

Don't forget there's rules for mounting infantry platoons on dinosaurs as well. They can carry bonus support weapons then.

Oh, tactical operations, you so crazy.

>> No.17247362

>>17247308
Battletech, making that motivational poster with the dinosaurs with missiles and guns on them come true, one insane battle at a time. GOD I LOVE THIS SILLY GAME!

>> No.17247384

>>17247045

Are you really going to try and say the Compact was crazier then Romano liao? Really?
Sun-tzu didn't make them less crazy either, he just focused it. Barely at that with regard to Kali.

There was arguably a lover angle in the creation of the Compact but when you consider it from a pragmatist's point of view it was just the icing on the cake.

>> No.17247420

If they do make a new edition, I really hope they fix the BV system. The fact that right now, it makes more sense to put your best pilot into your shittiest mech is slightly retarded.

>> No.17247639

>Barely at that with regard to Kali
Let's not get into terrorist groups that actively fight the government. You might as well bring up the Word of Blake for all the relevance it has to Capellan government.

And do you have any concrete examples of Capellan insanity? Because I think I had a pretty good case with the whole "married the traitor directly responsible for the deaths of millions of her own people" angle for Candace being a psycho bitch.

And yes, it is explicitly said that she secedes along with St. Ives because she was fucking Justin Xiang Allard.

>> No.17247682

>>17247420
From a balance standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Your shittiest mech is probably the one that will benefit the least from having a 2/3 pilot.

But yeah, BV could use an overhaul.

>> No.17247695

>And yes, it is explicitly said that she secedes along with St. Ives because she was fucking Justin Xiang Allard.

Davions have been sighted in the Solar System!

>> No.17248033

>>17247639 she secedes along with St. Ives because she was fucking Justin Xiang Allard.


To be totally fair, it's not like Davions fucking Capellans is a new thing in BattleTech. And it's not like she wasn't asking for it by virtue of being Capellan, either.
(Yeah, sorry. BT fourms have my hackles up today over petty factional bullshit.)

>> No.17248300

>>17247639
Kali's thugee cult didn't fight their own government. They fought other governments. Usually with poison gas. The one time they did fight the capellans during the Jihad they turned on the themselves to ruin the Wobbie's battle line.

If you want concrete examples of Capellan insanity let me repeat myself. Romano liao and Kali Liao. One was a paranoid ruler who tossed out assassinations like candy and the other had her own death cult who deployed nerve gas in terrorist attacks.

Her people were the St.ives Compact. So marrying justin was about as far from psycho as you can get. What would be pyscho would be staying with the Capellan Confederation.

>> No.17248393

>Have BattleTech night at FLGS
>Kid shows up with Wobbie Shadow Division 'mechs, going on and on about how they're the bestest of the best
>Insists on using bullshit optional rules like Machina Domini interface
>Counter that in that case I will be playing a regiment under the assumption they are facing Kokuryu, using the Turning Point: Luthien special rules, giving me a -2 to hit across the board
>Kid cries about how it's "not fair", fully expecting us to let him get free stat bonuses, virtual immunity to cockpit hits and all kinds of bullshit without allowing us the courtesy of using similar rules
>Calmly explain that he's free to pay BV for his 2/3 pilots just like everyone else instead of relying on poorly balanced rules intended for campaign play only
>Kid storms out, tears in his eyes
>Never see him again

>> No.17248411

>>17248033
is there more artwork like this?

>> No.17248426

>>17248393
...did you just brag about making a small child cry?

Just because some kid is being a powergaming munchkin doesn't mean you drive him away from the game forever, it means you teach him how it's supposed to work and be fun.

>> No.17248486

>>17248426
We did. That was what the "calmly explain he can pay BV like everyone else" part was about. We also explained what experimental rules meant, that we didn't allow custom mechs except under very special circumstances and that we absolutely didn't allow VDNI, Machina Domini or pretty much any Wobbie experimental tech unless we also used the optional rules designed to balance it out. If he still continues being a smug little prick, I'm going to assume we're better off without him. He seemed to know the rules well enough that he really should know better anyway.

>> No.17248626

>>17248393

>Assume you're fighting Black Dragon Units
>3078

I hope you Dracs don't actually do this.

>> No.17248712

>Reading about this dark age shit.
>Everyone giving up their military forces and handing a good part of whats left to Devlin Stone, plus a large portion of their worlds as well.
>Everyone
>The Clans
>Clans giving up most of their military forces, despite it being the very goddamn focus of their entire way of life, and giving like half of whats left to the Republic of the Sphere

What the flying fuck. When the hell did the Children of Kerensky turn into a bunch of goddamn pussies.

Heres what should have happened:

"Hey guys, give me your most elite galaxy. Also disarm half your units to comply with my bullshit crazy personal philosophy"
"Why sure, if you manage to beat Alpha Galaxy in a properly bidded and live fire trial of possession. And if you lose, you have to give Terra to us."

>> No.17248798

>>17248626
>Use Manei Domini special rules in casual games without notifying your opponent ahead of time or letting him use special rules to compensate
Sure hope you Wobbies don't do this.

It was mostly just in response to his balls-to-the-wall insanity. Demanding to use rules that allow you a -2 to all target numbers, construct mechs without gyros, makes you immune to many forms of pilot damage and cockpit criticals and gives you free special skills, all of which doesn't really cost you any BV apart from the cheap as shit PA(L) suit is going all kinds of retard.

At that point, I consider it well within my rights to say my commander has incorrectly identified the Wobbies as Black Dragon remnants.

>> No.17248936

>>17242585

>look for posts by "Nightward", or "MadCapellan" as examples
>MadCapellan

wait.... I.... I'm pretty sure I knew that guy in grade school, middle school and high school.

unholy obsession with the Capellan Confederation, Sun-Tzu Liao in particular?
thinks the Phoenix Hawk is the greatest thing ever?
massive weeaboo who is also weeaboo for England?

oh god what has he done in the past 12 years or so that I do not want to know about.

>> No.17249029

>>17248936
>>17248936

Written some fanfic for legend of Zelda apparently. Kinda disappointed, I wanted some batshit crazy battle tech fanfic where House Liao wins the 4th succession war or something.

>> No.17249030

>>17248486
I'm sure it could be handled better in the future though. If you see him again and he cares to play with his Wobbie units, its just a simple modifier of (.75+[level of the highest implant/4]=???

So in theory if he cared to use VDNI, standard or buffered would equal a modifier to his normal BV of 1.5 or 2. Thats should be enough of an edge to benefit from double his BV.

If he/she is unwilling to cooperate in this regard then theres nothing anyone can do. I just dont think anyone should be sent out crying within reason.

>> No.17249119

>>17249029

well, there was the old "Vortian Empire" bullshit from when he was like 13, where he was of course the Emperor, and had Star Wars Star Destroyers loaded with Battletech 'mechs. and he apparently still had that concept floating around ten years later.

I'll have to dig up the creepy "Princess Elysia" artwork. It was some Sonichu level shit, man.

And yes, skimming his posts I'm pretty sure it's him. A few years ago I had some morbid curiosity about whatever had happened to him, and some googling led me to a Battletech forum where it was definitely him and he was using the name MadCapellan.

So now I'm reading his posts in his voice. Oh, god. That fucking bowl cut. That excess of saliva. That overenthusiasm. That weird hard-on for Ranma and Sailor Moon.

At least he never turned into a furry or a brony as far as I can tell.

>> No.17249229

>>17249030
If he comes back, I'm willing to discuss it. In all honesty, though, unless they modify the Manei Domini special rules something silly, I'm probably never going to allow it. He should be paying x1.82 the BV for the skills alone, and this isn't getting into all the other benefits.

It only ever works in campaign play, where C-Bill costs and component rarity actually matters.

And the way I see it, he deserved everything he got. Anyone familiar enough with the rules to actually have read the Manei Domini rules, know what they mean and building mechs capable of using them knows exactly what he's doing and how much of an asshole he is being.

>> No.17249266

>>17248936
>>17249119

lol he got fat

also I have no face to express my surprise that he was apparently not talking about an imaginary wife, or that his "wife" would actually be his sister in a picture.

>> No.17249294

>>17249229
Depends on which rules I'd say.
VDNI isn't much of an issue, especially if they're actually running Shadow Division mechs with small cockpits. Pain shunt could be tweaked some, mainly because as it is, it makes buffered VDNI inferior to standard, at least for TT rules.

>> No.17249444

>>17248712
The heavy demilitarization was focused largely only on the worlds controlled directly by the Republic of the Sphere, and the "giving up" of military forces was a move to end the ownership of war material by private individuals ONLY, essentially moving to end the feudalistic, individual loci of pseudo-independent military power that had arisen out of a necessity of decreased physical mobility from the Succession Wars and which had become an anachronism with the advent of a return to something like real technological infrastructure within places where they were able to actually extend the control of a strong central government.

The extent of these demilitarization efforts did NOT carry over to such an extreme extent throughout the rest of the Inner Sphere; the initial Dark Age fluff merely chose to not focus on these areas, and so people erroneously extrapolated the situation within the Republic outward to places where these things did not occur.

>> No.17249455

So I just won a 25th anniversary intro box, yet know very little about the game. What should I paint my IS and Clan mechs as? I'd prefer to have two different armies.

>> No.17249537

>>17249455
not my pic but take a look

>> No.17249569

>>17249455
Whatever you want.

go look at camospecs.com for inspiration

That being said, BT is not a particularly faction-based game by the rules, so don't feel the need to lock yourself into specific factional paint schemes when you might later decide you want to arbitrarily switch around which mechs you actually want to play with on each side. Sometimes it's more fun to paint mechs up in the same scheme lance-by-lance (a group of 4 mechs), or to use non-unit-specific camo schemes, rather than paint everything up from the same army. That's just my .02 though.

>> No.17249574

>>17249537

I meant what unit(s) should I paint them as. What unit would have a good excuse for having a horrific hodgepodge of mechs produced in every successor state, plus some captured Clan mechs.

Bonus points if it has an awesome yet easy to paint insignia.

>> No.17249617

>>17249574

Mercs, probably.

>> No.17249645

>>17249574
Go lyran

>> No.17249742

>>17249574
To be honest, pretty much everyone. The Successor Wars left a bunch of salvage, and mechs are way too valuable to just leave behind. Any regular regiment would field whatever it could. Fancy omnis and new homegrown models are for officers and elite regiments.

Hell, you had people cruising around in Succession War Panthers and Mongooses as late as the 3060's.

>> No.17249774

>>17249742

Wasn't that more because the DCMS had a massive, massive hardon for the Panther?

I mean its pretty easy to upgrade a design of mech if you only have ten thousand of it. When you have a million it becomes much less easy.

>> No.17249788

I just finished a game of DCMS vs Ghost Bears at 20,000 BV, and it kind of played out like any good Combine/Bear fight should, a complete slaughter.

It was mostly thanks to the layout of the map. You see, the Ghost Bear half was heavily wooded, with a sort of narrow passageway where the vegetation wasn't as heavy. This meant that while I could approach relatively unmolested, in order to take any kind of shot against the Bears with non-jumping mechs, I would need to push through there. He was free to switch the mechs guarding the chokepoint, though, giving him the luxury of avoiding critical damage.

The first couple of turns were quite good. My C3 Venom was pretty much untouchable with all these woods around. In fact, it was only hit by one volley of fire in the entire game, which unfortunately also killed it. But once the ECM mechs got into disruption range, shit quickly went downhill. Without my sweet short range bonuses for my gauss rifles, PPCs and LRMs, keeping my distance was no longer an option, as the Clanners were far more accurate and deadly.

Once I closed in, though, shit just turned completely chaotic. With a Bishamon and Black Hawk-KU on point, my mechs were far more suited for close range combat. The Venom was also annoying the Clanners by putting lasers in their rears, even managing to take out a Jupiter with a couple of well-placed headshots. It was basically a majority of our forces duking it out at point blank range, the Clanners seemingly disregarding their supposed dislike for melee attacks.

>> No.17249811

>>17249788

>Clanner disregard for melee.

If it was a home clan, I'd give you that. But by 3080 or whenever the Jupiter gets produced, the Clans themselves kinda consider Zell a suggestion. Hell one of the Ghost bears latest omni designs has a retractable blade in the Prime config.

>> No.17249813

>>17249774
It was more because they still worked. In many (but not necessarily all) situations, any mech is better than no mech.

>> No.17249818

>>17249788
sounds fun, how long did it play out

>> No.17249839

>>17249788
In the end, I lost the game, though the Bears only had a banged up Executioner and a fucked up legless Warhawk left to celebrate. With all said and done, I feel I did the best of what I could with what was pretty much a terrible scenario for me. Things were close at the end, and I feel the only reason I ended up losing was due to my poor rolling. I just couldn't seem to hit the same location twice, so I basically needed to completely demolish each Clan mech before they would go down.

Hero of the game was the Venom, which was an unhittable engine of destruction, taking on Clanner Assaults and doesn't afraid of anything. The worst fucking unit on any side hands down was the No-Dachi. It failed to impress on any level, even when it got up close and personal with TSM online. Maybe if it had decent jump jets and a hatchet.

>> No.17249885

>>17249839
>Hero of the game was the Venom, which was an unhittable engine of destruction
Yup, sounds like a Venom all right.

>> No.17249988

>>17249818
18 turns. It was one of the most intense games yet. By the end, we were chewing our finger nails every time the dice were rolled, because it was all hanging on by a thread. The battle literally ended with the Executioner and my Awesome fighting it out hand-to-hand because neither had the heat sinks or guns to have a shootout. In other words, the end of a Rocky movie, only with assault mechs.

>> No.17250002

>>17249988
>The battle literally ended with the Executioner and my Awesome fighting it out hand-to-hand because neither had the heat sinks or guns to have a shootout.
I think my dick moved a little when I read that.

>> No.17250015

SO FAST

NOT EVEN BATTLE CLAWS HELP

>> No.17250038

>>17250015

What 'Mech is that?

>> No.17250051

>>17250038
Its a hornet, aka "that little shit"

>> No.17250115

>>17250015
A challenger has appeared!

>> No.17250134

>>17250115
fuck this I'm going to space

>> No.17250154

OOH YEAHHH

>> No.17250181

>>17249988

how did you know I was listening to the Rocky theme?
>GONNA FLY NOWWW!!! FLYING HIGH NOWWWWW!!!!

>> No.17250202

>>17241860

>Everyones dead

But what if I like the Northwind Highlanders.

>> No.17250208

I wish Battletech was more like this and less derpy.

Giant robots (yes I know it's not a robot if they have a pilot, fuck you) just whaling on each other so hard.

>> No.17250214

Posting questionable designs, are we?

>> No.17250229

>> No.17250233

>>17250154

>> No.17250235

>>17250115
See, the funniest part is that the Hornet is actually slow for a 20 ton mech.
And I don't know if anybody's got shit on the Locust 6M.
XL everything + MASC = max move of 28. And even without the MASC it runs a brisk 21. While still having max armor and packing 2 ER medium laser and and ER small.

>> No.17250236

>>17250229
You know that's not that bad, aside from the train-shoes.

>> No.17250238

>>17250214

>questionable designs

>implying there is any other type of design in Battletech

>> No.17250258

Rocky music on shuffle is entirely too appropriate for Battletech.

>LIVING IN AMERICAAA!
>OW! EYE TO EYE! VISION TO VISION!
>LIVING IN AMERICAAA!
>HAND TO HAND! ACROSS THE NATION!

>> No.17250263

>>17250154
Am I the only one who actually likes the Yeoman? What you see is what you get, a metric fuckton of missiles. But where are the arms?

>>17250229
Oh, come on! That one is fucking awesome!

>> No.17250279

>IT'S THE EYE OF THE TIGER
>IT'S THE CREAM OF THE FIGHT
>RISING UP TO THE CHALLENGE OF OUR RIVAL
>AND THE LAST KNOWN SURVIVOR STALKS HIS PREY IN THE NIGHT
>AND HE'S WATCHING US ALL WITH THE EYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEE
>OF THE TIGER

>> No.17250289

>> No.17250297

>>17250263

Superior fuckton of missiles.
Because they put arms on it.
And put fucktons of missiles on the arms.

>> No.17250299

>>17250235

Well probably not any canon designs. But /tg/ has produced the Blaze series. A design by a crazed Ice Hellion Khan as an attempt to troll the other clans into thinking that the IH's made a quantum leap in mech design.

The Blaze Two model had like..... 43 hexes top speed or something silly like that.

The later models focused on making it actually useful in combat by giving it some minimal amount of armor and weapons. And one of them was a LAM because FUCK YOU WARRIOR CASTE.

>> No.17250301

>>17250134

Improved that for you.

>> No.17250314

>> No.17250319

>>17250258
>>17250238
>>17250229
>>17250214
>>17250181
>>17250154
>>17250015

How come battletech is supposed to have raging boner for technical accuracy, yet mech designs are so bloody retarded?

>> No.17250321

>>17250235
I'll stick with the Venom. 8 hexes of jumping is enough for me, and three medium pulses is respectable for a 35 tonner, even if it's just icing on the cake that is a C3 spotter that is virtually impossible to hit.

>> No.17250334

>>17250319

Because autists cannot into decent art.

>> No.17250348

>>17250319
We just have fun posting the worst of the worst. There's actually some lovely designs hidden away.

More importantly, the art really doesn't matter so long as the guns are more-or-less in the right places. The rules are the big thing, and how it looks is pretty much just fluff.

>> No.17250350

>>17250319

The fluff is, but the artists? No solid art direction, IMHO. You get a few really good artists that deal with a 'Mech in the whole (Flyingdebris, White) a few not so well in the same way, and some that don't even think about how the whole fucking 'Mech actually would work if it was a three-dimensional-solid.

This leads to some serious derpmechery.

>> No.17250353

>>17250319
It doesn't really have a boner for technical accuracy. It has just used pretty much the same system for so long that it has gained a metric ass-ton of optional rules. It's sort of like the Dwarf Fortress of wargaming in that it has all these ridiculous stuff thrown in that is supposed to mirror some kind of realism, but usually just ends up causing all kinds of retarded and retardedly awesome situations.

Hell, a lot of the optional rules are explicitly unrealistic, like having engine explosions despite fusion engines not working that way.

>> No.17250368

>>17250279
giggled madly at the filename

>> No.17250398

>>17250299

If you use a mixed tech base, allowing you to use an XL Gyro, and put in MASC and a Supercharger, you can get up to 68 hexes/turn. If you use the TacOps Sprinting rules, that gets you to 81 hexes/turn. You only have a half-ton of space left, but that's still pretty damn fast.

>> No.17250401

>>17250350

it's always entertaining to see FD try to take a derpy design and un-derp it.

>>17250353

>It has just used pretty much the same system for so long that it has gained a metric ass-ton of optional rules

Oh god this. I think they did actually have up to a third edition, but the rules never really changed that much. It's basically, I don't know, like if 40k third and fourth edition existed for 30 years.

>> No.17250413

>>17250297
But that one looks all kinds of expensive and fancy with its arms and little cockpit head and sticky out bits. The Yeoman looks like they took a pair of legs and strapped as many missiles as they could to them. And I respect that. There's a certain charm to designing a mech that is just a gun with legs.

This is also why I like the Hollander.

>> No.17250474

>>17250413

It's also part of the charm of the Urbanmech- it's a trash can. With legs. Yet you still love the thing.

>> No.17250517

>>17250398

Yeah I got a Quad up to 68 hexes before. How fast is that in KPH? And have we broken the speed of sound yet?

>> No.17250595

>>17248393
Man, and I thought BT players would be above this sort of assholery. Picking on children over a game of plastic miniature giant robots.

>Counter that in that case I will be playing a regiment under the assumption they are facing Kokuryu, using the Turning Point: Luthien special rules, giving me a -2 to hit across the board

Sounds a lot more like you're so hell-bent on winning against a kid that instead of sensibly declining you stoop as low as to trying to one-up them with your own "special rules". Real mature, champ, and completely counter-productive to introducing a new player to the basics of the game. You're making all of us look like losers.

>> No.17250643

>>17250517

734.4 kph, which is nowhere near the speed of sound, sadly.

>> No.17250650

>>17250517
For quick and dirty, just stick a zero behind the number of hexes = kph.
But when you start getting that fast it starts going off more and more, looks like that's about 734.4 kph.

>> No.17250651

>>17250595
>introducing a new player to the basics of the game
I'm pretty sure new players don't have the know-how to utilize relatively obscure special rules mentioned in the back of three specific supplements, and especially not enough to design mechs using those features.

If he was a new player, odds are he would go inside, say he wanted to play the Word of Blake and maybe ask a few questions.

>> No.17250678

>>17250651
Also, to be completely fair the universal -2 to hit against Black Dragons are actual rules for the Otomo in the Luthien supplement.

>> No.17250683

>>17250595

>You're making all of us look like losers.

Nah, bro. Playing Battletech does a good enough job of that already.

>> No.17250751

>>17250651
>>17250678
You underestimate newbies, especially enthusiastic kids. When I was a kid, I used to play - gasp - WHFB, and the very first thing I did before even putting down one single cent of my hard-earned pocket money on models and paint, I would scour my friends' army books and the rulebook for the most powerful - read, broken - possible army composition. The younger players are, the more important winning tends to be, and the more industrious they tend to be in trying to achieve it through technicalities.

Now, another thing that makes me suspect that he was a real spring chicken with the game was that he had no sense of communality and social context in terms of the game. BattleTech crowds are - or at least in most cases should be - laid-back, patient, and mature enough to play ball even with the strangest of individuals. The kid, of course, had no idea of this, and tried to go in guns blazing. And the idea about BT he left the game store with was hardly improved in any measure.

>> No.17250823

>>17250751
seconded...

>> No.17250867

don't wobbie special implants already come with BV adjustments what is the problem here

>> No.17250884

>>17250867
like I told ya on Rizon, its workable, but not perfect, the big offender is pain shunt

>> No.17250922

>>17250884

I don't even worry too much on that end. People put way too much into Blakists being OMGWTFBBQ, but they blow up real good anyway. Teach him of the joys of Thunder ammunition and jump-capable 'Mechs and such. Going "BWAAAAH HE MADE A LEGAL ARMY, FUCK HIM" is against the spirit of the game.

And this is from a guy who's played against most old-school cheese around, and some of the new stuff. Experience is the deadliest BV modifier out there, never mind stupid WoBbie tricks.

>> No.17250946

>>17250823
Ugh, I don't know why the two can't get along.

Love Armored Core, love Battletech, shit I just love mechs.

>> No.17251017

>>17250946

It's tough being a Battletech fan and NOT loving other mecha.

After all, you gotta know your roots- and your roots are oldschool giant robot shows. There's shoutouts to it throughout the entire time Battletech has been made, and they'll still be doing it when Herb is laid in his grave.

>> No.17251164

>>17250946
Odd enough. I've never seen any real antipathy between BT players and Armored Core fans, apart from this one image. Which I strongly believe to be an off-handed joke, and the target could more accurately be MechAssault.

>> No.17251194

>Jihad

Meh, in like, ten or twenty years, assuming the hobby lives that long, someone will rediscover a new memory core that lets them build warships and shit again and the cycle will begin anew. Personally, I always wondered why it wasn't every single successor states policy to secretly bury one on a moon somewhere every six months once they started to regain technology, so something like the succession wars could never happen again.

I actually kinda want to see a Amaris Civil War supplement/series, if only so I could then run a campaign about the Liberation of Terra, with fuckhuge space battles being a must. I know my players would try so hard to come up with some way to get past the SDS with minimal casualties though.

>> No.17251210

>>17251164
Shhhh dont speak of that game, whose very name should never be spoken by the human tongue, for it brough the end of days

>> No.17251233

>>17251210

But... I kinda liked Mechassault. Admittedly I was like 16 at the time, and didn't know anything about the game beyond "Weren't these guys in that MW2 game I liked?".

I also blame this game for giving me my life long raging fetish for the Cougar, Uziel, Mad Dog, and Timber Wolf.

>> No.17251287

>>17251164

It's because AC is basically "Eastern BT" and the other way around.

Both are pretty sweet with their in-universe consistency out the ass

>> No.17251395

Ok this goes out to those who have marauders/ marauder IIs of the unseen variety.

A good friend of mine gave me a fake cast marauder II mini, its horrifically mis-cast, but I will do what I can to salvage it. When it comes to pinning, and dear god does this need the mother of all pinning jobs, is it best to work from the feet up? or pin the arms and accessories and working your way down.

Also modeling tips will be appreciated.

>> No.17251668

>>17251395


There is no good way to pin a marauder. That dancing MAD in the pic you put up there? I made that entire mini on a bet that you couldn't effectively repose and pin a Marauder due to its forward-leaning weight and spindly arms.

So you can pin one. It just sucks. A lot. Especially the arms, where you have ONE chance to get it right, or "get a new arm".

On the advice front, how I would do it is totally dependent on the degree of reposing planned. If you're just gonna pin it and leave it in the "standard, feetplanted, Marauder" pose, the it gets a bit easier. Steps are in this order: First, cut the feet away from the base. You don't have to file them down to the right thickness, just get them so they're each seperate. Assemble each leg. Take the torso and drill out your antenna holes, if you want them. Do any reworking of the hip unit (say, if you want some rotation to the left or right) you desire NOW. Assemble the arms. Drill the pin-holes for the arms now, ensuring that the male half of the pinning is on the arms, not the torso. Attach the jump jet fins. Attach the arms. Attach the legs to the body. Attach the autocannon. Finally, fill an empty hexbase full of filler and wait for it to dry. Then glue your complete MAD onto the hexbase, using extra layers of sand to build up around the feet (covering the thickness of the base you cut away earlier) until it looks right. Assembly done.

>> No.17251763

>>17251668
hooo boy Notentirelyanon, you really ought to see this doozy... hold on and lemme see if i can get some pics

>> No.17251867

>>17251668

>> No.17251902

>>17251867

>> No.17252010

>>17251902
last pic

>> No.17252198

>>17251867
>>17251902
>>17252010

Jesus. That's one of the MAD II's that the fucker up in the Pacific Northwest who casts all the BT fakes throws out over EBay. I've got one, and with the exact same issues...except he didn't send the legs with mine.

Your biggest issue aren't actually going to be pins. It'll be cleaning the mini of mold lines and making sure there's actually sockets to attach parts to.

First, read this: http://camospecs.com/Article.asp?FictionID=6

Use the principles therein to ensure that everything will actually fit together.

You want to do your assembly in three general steps. First, legs to feet. Then, jump jet fins to torso and glue the whole torso to the legs. Then attach arms and the autocannon goes on last. If you're pinning (which you should only need to do with the arms), make sure the pins are in the arms and the sockets are drilled into the torso BEFORE anything at all is actually glued to the torso.

Good luck with that one, man. That guys' minis are utter shit. I don't even mind recasting of OOP minis (in-print min recasting though...), but doing them BADLY is unforgivable.

>> No.17252320

>>17250208
If your Battletech games aren't like that, you're fucking doing something wrong. Any serious game of BT always devolves into giant robots beating the fuck out of each other in H2H combat.

>> No.17252380

>>17250319
>How come battletech is supposed to have raging boner for technical accuracy
>raging boner for technical accuracy
>technical accuracy
are we talking about the same battletech?

>> No.17252589

Magistracy of Canopus signing in.

btw, is there a good list of what mech's the Magistracy most uses? Coming from the rpg side of things, and being most familiar with Houses (Marik in particular), im breaking into new territory for my group by getting much more interested in the periphery states.

tl;dr periphery noob, need a good list of common canopian mechs

>> No.17252639

>>17250263
>Am I the only one who actually likes the Yeoman? What you see is what you get, a metric fuckton of missiles. But where are the arms?

I've always been tempted to model a Yeoman, with a tiny pair of stubby T-rex style arms on the bottom of the launchers... literally tiny little stubs with two fingers on the end.

(I always thought of the yeoman's launchers as being a two-part structure, with the ammo in seperate bins on the sides, that are simply classed as arms for mechanics, while being integral to the rest of the hull. )

>> No.17252667

So I've been getting into BT recently, but I haven't messed around with the more advanced things like C3. What exactly does C3 do?

Also, how to people play in real life with double blind rules?

>> No.17252671

It has been years since I played battletech with my brother. How does the game balance Clan and Innersphere units? I seem to remember Clan technology being better in every way. Is it just a matter of IS players being able to field more mechs than Clan Players? if a clanner gets 500 tons of mechs on the field do IS players get 600 or something?

>> No.17252693

>>17252671
They came up with the BV and BV2 systems to actually balance forces.

I weep for early players that had people assuming tonnages were a balance mechanism for IS vs. Clan matches.

>> No.17252710

>>17252693
yeah I think the last time I actually played was 1995-ish. I don't remember how we balanced it. my brother always played Clan and I always played IS.

>> No.17252718

>>17252693
>BV2 system


God BV2 is both good and shit.

Speed is so fucking overvauled, MASC/SuperChargers rape your BV while Clanners need to be given 3/4 pilots to be able to compete for free.

>> No.17252762

>>17252589

Yay! Another MoC player! The more of us there are, the better the orgy. Or something.

Anyway, the nice part about playing MoC (aside from the tail) is that you get all the hipster cred of playing a Periphery Power and can field almost anything newTech short of WarShips due to the MoC's personal fiefdom (come Dark Age), the Capellan Confederation. Essentially, anything they get, we get. Oh, plus anything the Taurians get (except the crazy), we get too.

Aside from the "General" list of Inner Sphere Mechs (pretty much anything from TRO3025), the moC has access to some pretty cool designs; although the Light category is probably the worst. Here's some highlights:

Lights:
-Anubis: 30-ton HIGHLY mobile LRM-20 on legs. The ABS-3T version is nice too.
-Wolfhound: Yes, really. Specfically, the WLF-1 and the WLF-3M (a walking Light Gauss Rifle). The MUL says we get the WLF-5 too, but I think that's in error.
-Raven: through the Capellans. A great trolling Mech when you've got a dozen artillery units off-bard. A little slow for a light Mech in the modern era, but respectable for its capabilities nonetheless.

cont

>> No.17252765

>>17252710
Yup, that's what I thought. You must have been a masochist back then. I'd say right now though that the BV system slightly favors IS in larger battles. Especially if you're not using force modifiers. But the game is pretty balanced right now between IS and Clans.

>> No.17252802

>>17252765
good to know it's more balanced now. If I go out and buy the core rules right now how much of the game will be unfamiliar to me? I have heard there is a new emphasis on combined arms. like vehicles and infantry are a more important part of the game than they used to be.

>> No.17252844

>>17252802
Core rules have changed very little and they actually have them online for free.

There is more of a focus on combined arms with the newer stuff though, but you can still play good old battletech like you used to.

>> No.17252852

>>17242618
>as they render ground combat largely pointless if take to their logical conclusion, thus obliviating the need for "BattleTech" at all.)

What? Why the fuck would anybody want to own a completely glassed rock?

>> No.17252854

>>17252762 cont

Mediums:
-Eyleuka: like a Wraith, but cooler. Kinda dumpy-looking, though. Jumping 7 hexes + Stealth Armor is great, and it has the firepower the Wraith doesn't.
-Marshal: the base variant is pretty "meh", but I was able to get the -6MC variant canonized, which updates the arsenal to something useful (plasma rifle over MMLs). it's still quite slow, though...but that's a hallmark of the Mech I didn't want to change.
-Starslayer: This is essentially a Crab, but better. use at every opportunity to fill in holes in your roster. Always useful.
-Huron Warrior: Only ever field the HUR-WO-R4O model if you can help it. Gauss Rifle over an ER large, with the heat sinks to use them. Plus a war bonnet. How can you not love a mech with a hat?

Heavy:
-Jinggau: 65-tons 5/8/5 with a Gauss Rifle and a quartet of ER MedLasers. Great Cavalry mech, as long as you remember it's got fragile side torsoes and an IS XL engine.
- Thunder: the -2L model, specifically. An LB-20X and Streak-6 on a 5/8 70-ton Mech with Stealth armor to help you get in close. Pair 2 of these with 2 Jinggaus to form a nasty cavalry lance.
-Penthesila ("Penny") - it's got a bizarre weapon layout and look, but I just like it because it's got a butt-ugly style like the A-10 Warthog.

cont

>> No.17252898

>>17252854
Yo Canopian whore, I'm really happy for you, I'ma let you finish, but House O'Reilly is the best house of all time!

>> No.17252911

>>17252762
>>17252854

thanks man!

seriously, what drew me to the MoC - girls

>> No.17252960

>>17252852
I imagine a totally glassed rock would be quite pretty.

>> No.17252968

Oh goody, a BT thread!

Me and a friend are running a kind of co-op campaign, each of us running a tiny (read, reinforced lance) mercenary unit, and playing OPFOR for each other. We kicked each other's shit in on Detroit, then... acquired a small dropship each. Having won our first clash, my employer stiffed me, so I stole his shit.

Now it's my turn to OPFOR for him. I decided that HIS employers stiffed him as well, so he "borrowed" their small factory to effect repairs before leaving Detroit. Just as they're wrapping up, a pirate band (none less then the Death's Consorts) tries to raid the factory.

Wrong fucking factory.

Anybody have advice on how to run the pirates? I want my bro to get a shot at capturing the Manatee (which will be landing + deploying in-game,) but he's going to get hit by a decent number of infantry and tanks dropped by a Fury to cover the Manatee's landing (vehicular drop-chutes aren't in yet, so I'll just deploy those on the map edge and fly the Fury over, then off-map (if he manages to bring it down, he gets to keep that too.) I'm using a few periphery rocket-launcher specials, including the Karnov one (that should be fun.) And infantry in fast APCs.

Not sure which map would be best for it...

>> No.17253003

>>17252802

Infantry and tanks just suck less. Literally, the (optional, but used by everybody) rules in Tactical Operations flat-out said "the old rules fucked infantry and tanks in the ass just to keep Mechs special snowflake status, but fuck that."

The result is that infantry, tanks, arty, etc can be as good and actually much better then 'Mechs... in certain situations. And much worse in others. Mechs are still excellent units simply because they do just about everything pretty decently. A commander's wet dream, the best all-around jack-of-all-trades unit ever made. In any situation they have decent firepower and decent mobility.

>> No.17253032

>>17252852

You don't. It's so the OTHER guy can't have it.


>>17252854 cont

Assaults
-Pillager: Yup. The Stealth Pillager is on our equipment list, thanks to the Cappies. 2 Gauss Rifles, 2 ER Meds, Stealth armor, max armor, jump jets, and a standard engine. Good times.
-Devastator: Again, yup. Should we have this? Probably not. Do we? Aw yeah. 2 Gausses over 2 PPCs and enough ammo to fight all day (literally; I fought the same Devastator for 2 days at a GenCon canon event, firing every turn, and never ran out of ammo until an hour to go on the 2nd day). Just a great design.

Vehicle-wise, you're looking at SRM and LRM carriers (plus heavy LRM carriers!), Pikes, Manticores, Harrassers, Pos, and of course, Vedettes.

For Areospace...well...MoC is not an areospace power. The whole faction in 3085 has an estimated 200 fighters across their entire expanse. Light fighters are mainly the Cheetah and Thrush...mostly Thrushes. Medium fighters are pretty much just Lightnings with a very few Defiance Omnifighters thrown in from the Cappies. Heavy fighters are the Transgressor, the Měngqín (no, I can't pronounce it either), and the Troika. That's pretty much it.

Oh, and the pic is the canon version of the Canopian Marine combat armor. Yes, really.

>> No.17253165

>>17252854
>Penthesila
Only one issue with it: The left torso of the PEN-2H has only ferro-fibrous and endo steel crits. So any crit on the LT transfers to the CT... Which is one of those big no-nos of mech design, and a reason the Battle Cobra is disliked. Of course, that's better than sticking only ammo in that side torso, but that little detail hurts the design.

>> No.17253166

>>17253003
Thanks, that is good to know. I actually like the idea of combined arms Vehicles are really cool and it seems to me that a 100 ton mech, and a 100 ton tank, should have similar firepower and armor, the mech should be a little more mobile and the tank should cost a whole lot less C-Bills.

>> No.17253186

>>17253032

not bad! and the list is helpful too

Im reading my periphery handbook now, for the first time. wow, in an inner sphere with houses too ethnically dominated, and kinda stagnant in vision...

...i've found a place in battletech all about spirit, toughness, independence, and freedom - hot girls, and some "wild west" style.

love it.

>> No.17253215

>>17253186
>houses too ethnically dominated

Do we read the same Battletech or are you confusing Culture for Ethnicity?

>> No.17253354

Is someone borrowing these girls for BT posters, vice versa, or is someone borrowing for both from somewhere else?

>> No.17253366

>>17253215

probably confusing culture for ethnicity - im too used to Marik, where each sub house territory is described by there ethnic\cultural roots - greek, spanish, hindu, east asian, etc

Liao being very red china, Kurita being over dominated by feudal japan - Lyran and Davion not being as bad, but it still encourages a germanic\british feel.

>> No.17253704

>>17253354
I cannot open this. I have to much respect for them.

Yep. Even Evelyn. This is what League of Legends has taught me. Women have awesome superpowers.

>> No.17253779

>>17250314
>>17250134
>>17250181
>>17250229
>>17250258
>>17250297
What are these 'mechs? I have the feeling that I should know a couple of them, at least.
>>17252589
>>17252762
>>17248033
Also, yay! Moar BT pinups, please. Also, source?

>> No.17253802

>>17253779
>source?

League of Legends

>> No.17253814

>>17253354
The dude making the BT posters is taking those from random pieces of other art. Artist actually drawing them is called Ganassa.

>> No.17253832

>>17253779

Source is /tg/, naturally. Some kind anon made them, and lo! they were saved upon hard drives. Then the kind anon returned, and said that life had sucked recently, but he'd make more. We await his third coming and the promised bounty of hi-res scantily-clad women astride BattleTech faction logos.

>> No.17253842

>>17253354
Well, I'm pretty sure that most of those are by Ganassa, who's a hentai artist. I don't think they're Battletech-related, originally.

>> No.17253852

>>17253814
Well, I don't think most of the images on the Battletech logos are Ganassa's work, just this one >>17252762

>> No.17253862

WoB player here. Picked them mostly because I love the look of the Celestial series (visual consistency? in MY Battletech? It's more likely than you think) and looking for some good vees to pick up to go with them. And TBH, I ruined a good pair of pants over JFR myself, so I can understand wanting to go nuts. Looking forward to the inevitable return of the WoB after the Dark Age.

Also, is El_Mance still here? You mentioned you had a Jade Falcon in your merc band. Here's an idea- throw the turkeys after your guys instead of/in addition to the WoB. There's the preexisting Clan hatred of mercs, but you could also have it come out that your Falcon was from a sibko tainted by the Society's tampering- maybe a ROM agent slips that info to the turkeys to set them on your players?

igaimo HIV/AIDS? Another Society biological weapon, Captcha?

>> No.17253892

>>17252667
C3 lets you use the range modifiers for the unit closest to your target that is part of the C3 network, instead of the firing unit's actual range modifiers. There's a little but more to it than that, but I think that's the gist of it.

Also, I don't think anybody actually plays double-blind IRL because it's WAY too much hassle. Honestly, I think it's the best thing about MegaMek.

>> No.17253915

>>17253032
>For Areospace...well...MoC is not an areospace power.
I thought that, all things considered, as a Periphery power, the MoC "Navy" actually had a fairly respectable number of jumpships and combat-worthy dropships. But, as you mentioned, they aren't particularly noteworthy in terms of faction-specific ASF.

>> No.17253921

>>17253779
So... what were those various ugly mechs?

>> No.17253945

>>17253892

It is indeed. I've GM'd a couple of double-blind games using the guidelines in TacHandbook, with VERY experienced gamers who were used to double-blind historicals...and it still took a weekend to get through 14 turns.

Plus, you need three of everything. Really, the only time I've had a double-blind game done successfully was a summer campaign on Solaris VII where all the players had their own stables. The championship was a 1v1 duel, a double-blind game in the Ishiyama Arena tunnels.

I don't especially like MegaMek and I REALLY don't trust its RNG (it's technically "average", but biases toward the extreme results in my experience), but double-blind is far better done on a computer than by hand.

>> No.17254531

>>17253852
>Magistracy of Canopus
>Using a Hentai Artists' Work

I think he's doing it right.

>> No.17254682

What was the name of that new artist who did some pretty nice new designs for the previously unbelievably shitty protomechs, as well as some other mechs?

>> No.17254692

>>17254682
Flying Debris

>> No.17254695

>>17254682
Flying Debris
He's got a deviant art account.

>> No.17254769

>>17250867
I think the problem was the Machina Domini interface system introduced in the Blake Documents, which doesn't cost shit in terms of BV and actually makes the mech cheaper by removing the gyro modifier, despite giving you a ridiculous amount of benefits. Which I agree is complete bullshit. Also, Wobbie implant BV doesn't really work, as you only pay for the highest one, meaning you get pain shunt for free in most cases. Sure, you're paying slight overprice for your skill bonuses, but it's offset by the other bonuses to the point where it becomes an auto-use.

Just pay for the goddamn skill points like everyone else. Seriously, you don't see Clanners showing up trying to convince you to use RPG rules. Because that's what Manei Domini is, RPG rules. Most of the CBT rules seem thrown in as an afterthought, because it already has rules for sticking über haxx0r pilots in your mechs. Just pay for 2/3 pilots like everyone else.

>> No.17254995

>>17254769
>I think the problem was the Machina Domini interface system introduced in the Blake Documents
Final Reckoning. But yes, that's some bullshit. "Oh, it takes three cockpit criticals to kill me now! Also, my cockpit is my gyro! Also, I get -1/-1 for free! Also, I don't take damage from head hits! Also, I get free Special Pilot Abilities!"

>> No.17255299

>>17249988
>The battle literally ended with the Executioner and my Awesome fighting it out hand-to-hand

>> No.17255457

>>17253945
>>17242585
>>17242618

Sir Not Entirely Anon, I have good news and bad news for you: The Jihad which you so despise is over, and MadCapellan (who is a far better person than the way I think you're perceiving him) is now an author for Catalyst Game Labs in addition to being a fact-checker.

Catalyst has turned the utter crap that Wizkids dealt them into something decent. There are plenty of conventional BattleTech military campaigns all over the Inner Sphere during the Jihad, so get your head out of your ass.

And if I think you are who I suspect you are...don't take your issues out on the team just because those "aspie fans" have a different opinion of your own work than yours.

Nightward's changed his name, by the way. I'll let you figure out who he is, if you ever decide to come back.

>> No.17255513

>>17248936
>MadCapellan

Yes, that's him, exactly as you described. You do realize he's looking for you, right?

>> No.17255525

>>17255457
... is the toilet at the CBT forums flooding over? Because I'm seeing shit bleeding over my nice BT threads. And saying that something is staining 4chan is saying a lot.

>> No.17255582

>>17255525

Oh good, I do have the right person. How've ya been, Roland?

>> No.17255599

>>17255457
>Catalyst has turned the utter crap that Wizkids dealt them into something decent
That may vary from person to person. I still think it's bad and everyone involved should feel bad, but at least the thought of it doesn't make me want to throw up anymore. And yes, I know, badwrongfun. You guys feel free to enjoy it, and I'll feel free to dislike it and pretend it didn't happen. Live and let live.

Also, the fans are pretty much unpleasable assholes. I'll freely admit I whine like a motherfucker, and I'm pretty sure I'm not even one of the really bad ones.

>> No.17255628

>>17255582
Just an anon here, rather than whomever you were writing to. I'm concerned that people will start dragging interpersonal drama that site is famous for into /tg/ BT threads, which are generally civil in nature.

It's not just the drama I'm opposed to, of course - bringing any form of identity into the picture in general detracts from what's important, that being the game, and contributes into LOOK AT ME I'M A FUCKING INTERNET CELEBRITY-type behavior.

>> No.17255704

>>17255628
Oh. Right then. Carry on.

>> No.17255768

>>17255457
>Nightward's changed his name, by the way. I'll let you figure out who he is, if you ever decide to come back.

Its Stormfront, oh, I mean Storm Fury>? Or I think it is by the way he Aspies outs, quotes everything and doesn't back down until someone accepts his views of events.

>> No.17255809

>>17248300

I have the opinion you're extrapolating a lot more from the St. Ives Compact's mission than what's really canon, but hey, it's your game, your view of the Inner Sphere.

But personally, I find your view of the St. Ives being the "good, honorable, upstanding Capellans" and the rest of the Confederation being "bad, sneaky, freedom-hating Capellans" to be somewhat nonsensical, especially since both St. Ives and the rest of the Confederation were one single people for, oh, about 20 times the years that the Compact actually remained independent. Now I know you were only talking about leadership specifically, but leadership tends to color the masses of these fantasy factions, especially in science fiction where we can't keep track of all the burgeoning populated worlds (admittedly mostly lacking in fluff) at once.

To me, it's sounding as if everyone in the Commonality suddenly woke up one morning and said "I wanna be part of the Brady Bunch!" and proceeded to their local plastic surgeon to have their Michael Jackson procedures done.

>> No.17255846

>>17255809
I like to call it faction blindness. It's very common in the BattleTech community. People identify with their faction to the extent they become blind to their flaws and actually buy into the in-universe propaganda.

>> No.17255850

getting this thread back on track

dat Naomi Centrella, maybe I will make a MoC force someday

>> No.17255866

>>17255850
I don't really know a lot about the Magistracy. What's their shtick?

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