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16975163 No.16975163 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So I've heard countless amounts of times that the Tyranid 5th edition codex is pretty bad compared to other armies out there right now.

Now my fellow elegan/tg/entlemen I ask you, what can save this army to become viable in tournaments?

I'd just like some of your thoughts because frankly I am bored and I haven't seen a decent Tyranid thread in quite some time.

>> No.16975180

Max hive guard.
Tervigons in your troops with termagaunts with devourers and adrenal glands.
Maybe a tyrannofex to scare people.

>> No.16975213

BIG buffs for their Monstrous Creatures

A larger connection to the whole "Hivemind thing" they have now. Something along the lines of "XBOX HUGE BUFF to units near certain Monstrous Creatures" that they have. Probably something like "without the XBOX HUGE BUFF hormaguants and such suck even worse than they do now" to balance it out.

>> No.16975233

I was more looking towards the lines of what rules need changing and what models need redoing.

Still, would love to get my hands on some more Hive Guard. Wish they were cheaper, but what are you gonna do, eh?

GW should have also maid a damn Tervigon/Tyrannofex kit, dammit. It would have sold like hot cakes. I really don't have the skill to convert my own and be happy with it. It'd most likely look like a mess.

>> No.16975235

Tyranids aren't bad, they've just changed. I recently came in 2nd at a tourney with this list;

HQ - tyranid prime w/ twin bonesword
ELITE - hive guard x2, hive guards x2, doom of malan'tai in pod
TROOPS - tervigon w/ adrenal toxic catalyst, tervigon w/adrenal catalyst, devourgaunts x10, devourgaunts x10, devourgaunts x10
HEAVY - trygon, trygon

1500 pts exactly

>> No.16975277

What I find, and I don't know if others agree, is that MC's are very laughably easy to kill.

Every army has high strength weapons with AP3 or better. Not to mention power weapons out the ass.

I just find it silly that a 200+ point model can be taken out so easily. They should be as hard to take out as tanks in all honesty. Or at least dreads.

I dunno, maybe it's just me but I just can't seem to be able to use any of my big guys without my opponent just laughing in my face for bringing them (not really laughing, but you get the picture).

I'm hoping 6th Edition will do something, but I won't hold my breath.

>> No.16975287

Should have said an abundance of high str weapons.

>> No.16975303

What are you guys using for Mycetic Spores?

I need some ideas on making some. I tried finding those dino eggs everyone talks about but they're so expensive nowadays it's ridiculous.

Any tips would be appreciated.

>> No.16975309

Right on the money man.

Nids are/should be a highly CC army. You shouldn't have units from gunline armies/all-arounders (fucking Assault Marines) who can wipe the flooor with us.

>> No.16975310

I think one problem is that GW forgot that giant alien monsters can have invul saves just for being giant alien monsters with awesome healing abilities. Seriously, that's an example of an invul save in the rulebook.
Well, that, and all MCs everywhere being T7+ would make them next to impossible to put down in combat under the current To Wound chart.

>> No.16975323

One guy used wiggle balls covered in green stuff

>> No.16975331

tyranid MCs being immune to ID and given an invulnerable save of some kind

Hell, giving synapse creatures/units a psychic power that equates to "target unit with X inches gains Eternal Warrior" would be a pretty good start. The only real issue I have with the book is that MCs are overpriced for what they are and that warriors (despite being pretty solid troops) fold like a stack of cards against any modern codex with S8 out the ass

Termagants and Tervigons are pretty good as is, as are Genestealers.. I'd just like Warriors and Carnifexes to be a little more viable

oh, and fix the Lictor Pheremone trail rules. Someone goofed big time on that

>> No.16975333

I just started Tyranids and 40k, I took the bottom half of one of those Glade plug-in egg things from my friend's house. I took some extra tentacles and shit, along with a good priming job, and made it look decent.

Also, a quick question, for someone who constantly loses due to poor army management - what should a list like this >>16975235 look like on the field? Gaunts first, I assume, but what should I use the Catalyst on? What should I drop the Doom next to? Where should my Prime really go? Any tips would be lovely.

>> No.16975335

wiggle... balls?

>> No.16975358

Wiffle balls. Fucking spell check.

>> No.16975366

Instead of Regen giving back wound on a dice roll of 6 it should give the model an invulnerable save.

Make it like a 4+ inv save. I mean come on, a huge Trygon dying like a bitch to some little guy with a tiny fist? Or getting pinched by some Ork with a power klaw?

... God damn Orks with hidden nobs. Grinds my gears.

>> No.16975405

Have the hive guard be up in front behind cover if possible. Have the Tervigon in back with the gaunts in front for cover. Dunno what I'd do with a prime at that point.

With the Trygons it's up in the air, really depends on what your opponent is using. I find that deepstriking is only good if you want to get pot shots behind some back armor 10 tanks/walkers.

>> No.16975421
File: 103 KB, 599x908, Swarmlord.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.16975444

They're fixing the hidden powerfist bit next edition, it the rumors are to be believed. Every however many wounds are determined by the attacker, but then again almost none of the MC's can insat-kill nobz, but you can with sergeants at least.

>> No.16975457

>Tyranids aren't bad

No, the Tyranid Codex is pretty bad. It can put out one or two lists able to hold it's own in a more competitive scene - but that doesn't change the fact it's an atrocious, poorly written mess. The internal balance is nothing short of abysmal, and it's noticably less powerful than the other 5th edition Codexes kicking around. I'll grant that Cruddace had a lot of good ideas when writing the book, but he's shit at writing rules and by and large couldn't do them justice.

>> No.16975459


Ouch, that's going to hurt my SOB a decent bit. Faith powers are unreliable enough without killing off the squad leader.

>> No.16975465

Oh, and the current No Retreat! rules don't help. Those guants over there lose by 7? Make a bucket of saves.
I think 4th edition capped at 3, right?

>> No.16975466

I'll try looking for said rumors, but if you have a link it would be appreciated!

>> No.16975482
File: 809 KB, 813x563, 1321069429909.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

So the army I just picked up turns out to be the weakest?
Fuck yeah.

>> No.16975487

No retreat is so dumb, especially in multi-assault combat.

Why do my other units take damage cause one lost the fight? WHY!?

>> No.16975498

Chaos Daemons and Tau are weaker. Dunno bout CSM though. Then again they're marines... so yeah.

>> No.16975504

Not quite the weakest. Tau, Dark Angels or Chaos Daemons probably get that dubious award.

>> No.16975516


Welcome to Games Workshop. That'll be $600.

>> No.16975539
File: 26 KB, 777x652, unyuugaunt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

This, so hard.

And let's not forget Raveners being one of the few units NOT allowed to use the Trygon tunnel.

>> No.16975578

I still don't get what Trygons are good for.

>> No.16975591
File: 35 KB, 910x616, studyfex.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

They're fire magnets that are also likely to cause a lot of damage. It's that simple, really.

>> No.16975597

I dispute that when it comes to DA's.
They have had strong showings in tournies with the updates.

>> No.16975607

uh, you can keep units in reserve you know.

Even if they have the deepstrike ability, you can choose -not- to deepstrike at the beginning of the game, in which case they arrive on your table edge (or trygon tunnel) when they arrive as normal

the issue is that it's a crapshoot as to when your reserves actually come. If nids could actually control their reserve rolls (re-rolls via pheremone trail, for example) it would be somewhat feasible

>> No.16975610

So I had a game last night. My warriors who were 50 points a piece had been assaulted by a group of Ork boys and a hidden Nob with a claw.

My unit, 400 points, his, like 180 or some shit.

All my warriors raped the orks, till there was like 3 or 4 left and the nob.

The nob? Killed 4 warriors by himself. The prime was changed to a squig earlier so i couldn't protect them from that bullshit.

200 points killed with a single, what 30 point model?

Those hidden power klaws man, dem power klaws.

>> No.16975615

I forgot to add how they're also good for making GW not sell any more Carnifex kits, seeing as they have 50% more wounds, 50% more attacks, Fleet and better initiative for just a points cost that's just 25% higher.

>> No.16975618


Purely with Deathwing. A regular DA army with Death/Ravenwing elements is just awful.

>> No.16975625
File: 722 KB, 2560x2370, 1319156758816.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Some Instant Death immunity (the Swarmlord can be instant killed even) at least on MCs, hopefully something purchasable on warriors. Also, invuln saves somewhere besides Zoanthropes would be nice god-fucking-dammit.

T6 prevents high-strength weapons ID kills...but does shit-all against force weapons or coup de grace or etc.

>> No.16975627
File: 21 KB, 770x574, beanstealercolonV.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Read the Trygon tunnel rule again. Only infantry may enter from there. Raveners are beasts, thus not infantry. The reserves issue never played into my argument.

~ Putting the Crud in Cruddace ~

>> No.16975630

Anyone else think Nids and Chaos Daemons should be allowed to assault after deepstriking?

Or would that be too game breaking?

>> No.16975631

The major gripe that I have with the new codex is that to make the list competitive in any way it must include a trevigon which severely limits the number of lists like >>16975457 said. Another are the useless monsters and options that were added, old one eye, pyrovore, strangle web etc. I'm looking are you

captcha: eyssysis cried

I bet he cried captcha after reading the codex

>> No.16975636

>what 30 point model

46, if I remember correctly. But still, you're right. Boosting Warriors up to T5 would go a long way towards making them more useful.

>> No.16975651

huh, you're right

well that's silly.

>> No.16975661

Maybe some nids should. Especially Lictors and maybe also Raveners, I'd suggest. Making it so that all nids can do it might just make spore-dropping everything a bit too good.

>> No.16975665


That's how the lictor used to be.. alas he deepstriked in a nerf bat

>> No.16975689
File: 60 KB, 777x652, tengentoppagurrenlagaunt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Man, what a sweet piece of art. That Tyrant looks so menacing - and kind of reminescent of the one on the front of the very first Codex: Tyranids.

>> No.16975693

I don't know if I'd call it awful, you just can't really pull any tricks and are a bit more expensive model-per-model compared to vanilla marines. Less that nothing works than that anything that can stop SM can stop DA. Well, except for Scouts. DA scouts are absolute garbage.
The funnest unit in a greenwing army is the company vets though. Don't have special ammo, but you can still spam plenty of combi/special weapons and toss in some CC stuff to boot. And our ven dreads are a bit cheaper (though they lack the extra BS, which isn't that big of a hit with a PC/ML setup).

>> No.16975703

Eternal warrior on one HQ would work, but not on any of the others. Even the marines keep that limited to the uppermost ranks only.

>> No.16975709

It's Technomancer's take (with God-Emperor of Mankind's colours) on the Swarmlord, just prior to his duel with Marneus Calgar at cold steel ridge.

>> No.16975728

The entire GAME has moved away from massed EW, and the real jist has been "remove from game" versus instant death.
I'd rather see a point drop for them, and stronger groups for warriors. I always liked the mixed unit tactics nids brought to the table, and how they had the match for each foe among their number.

>> No.16975735

He's just gonna get pelted with Str 8+ AP 1-3 weapons...

Ha! Made my night.

>> No.16975757

Marines are only 8ft tall and made of soft squishy flesh

>> No.16975758
File: 120 KB, 720x300, tervigonlol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Quite the forces at play then, both inside and outside the image. What a collaboration! If only I could draw like that.

>> No.16975773
File: 21 KB, 770x574, beanstealertears.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

D-don't ruin my fragile illusions!

>> No.16975786

I've had this duel, repeatedly.
Swarmlord and tyrant guard versus my captain and his assault retinue.
It always lasts at LEAST 4 rounds, we make way for our leaders to battle it out on the field while the rest of the armies wage war. I'm losing 4 to 3. Thinking about tossing in some lightning claw mooks....

>> No.16975790

Creedings, elegan/tg/entlemen,

Here's a rundown of my shop's simple competitive fixes for Tyranids in the 5th edition

1) Synapse grants Eternal Warrior.

2) Ymgarl Genestealers is a Genestealers Troops Upgrade.

3) Tyranid Prime is a Warriors Upgrade, similar to Chaos Champion.

4) Ravagers are Beasts.

5) Ripper swarms no longer take up a FoC slot but are still troops.

6) Gargoyles now have 2 base attacks and may take spinefists at no extra cost. Their special ability applies to their ranged attacks.

And to tie it all together,

7.) Flat 10% reduction in cost (rounding down) across the board.

>> No.16975807

dunno wtf I was talking about Ravagers, RAVENERS are already beasts. I was probably thinking of something else.

>> No.16975808

7'. They're on average 7' tall. Look at the damn Jess-Goodwin life-size sketch a little closer, and see he burned a foot.

>> No.16975834

Gargoyles don't need changed at all, actually. They're one of the few Tyranid units that are pretty damn good overall and don't need fiddled with.

Also, 'Ravagers are beasts'...do you mean Raveners? They already are beasts. I'd also be wary of moving the Tyranid Prime out of the HQ slot - at the moment, they're useful in low point games where you don't want an expensive HQ choice.

>> No.16975849
File: 21 KB, 665x517, preposterousmarine.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Synapse grants Eternal Warrior.
Might work, I guess. It used to, after all!
>Ymgarl Genestealers is a Genestealers Troops Upgrade.
Sounds good to me. Elites being as crowded as they are is really an issue with this codex.
>Tyranid Prime is a Warriors Upgrade, similar to Chaos Champion.
Neat! Solves the issues of Spores, reserves, outflanking etc.
>Ravagers are Beasts.
Raveners? They're already Beasts...
>Ripper swarms no longer take up a FoC slot but are still troops.
Interesting idea! I like it.
>Gargoyles now have 2 base attacks and may take spinefists at no extra cost. Their special ability applies to their ranged attacks.
I frankly think Gargoyles is one of the few well-balanced units in the current codex, so in my opinion that's a bit over the top. The spinefists option is a good idea, though.
>Flat 10% reduction in cost (rounding down) across the board.
Hmm, well, I dunno - I think points need a more individual adjustment than that.

Interesting ideas, though, don't get me wrong! I think it's nice your shop has attempted to address the issues in the codex.

>> No.16975853

Tau are good as shit if you can manage to avoid cqc.


>> No.16975858

To be fair, that first foot was a self-proclaimed blasphemer, that dared to preach the notion that the Emperor was not, in fact, 18 feet tall and constantly lit up like a spotlight.

>> No.16975862

>Gargoyles don't need changed at all, actually
Some way to make them troops would be nice

though I really want to see what a Ymgarl broodlord looks like..

>> No.16975869

You want to bring back the EW glut?
That just inflated prices across the board and it was lazy to boot.

>> No.16975888


>1) Synapse grants Eternal Warrior.
I like it.

>2) Ymgarl Genestealers is a Genestealers Troops Upgrade.
I can't really comment.
3) Tyranid Prime is a Warriors Upgrade, similar to Chaos Champion.

>4) Ravagers are Beasts.
Already are.

>5) Ripper swarms no longer take up a FoC slot but are still troops.
Still don't see too many uses for the little guys.

>6) Gargoyles now have 2 base attacks and may take spinefists at no extra cost. Their special ability applies to their ranged attacks.
Hot damn.

And to tie it all together,

>7.) Flat 10% reduction in cost (rounding down) across the board.
I like it.

I wish my store was like this.

All the people I play with spout crap like "Nids are OP" and just think that everything GW does is amazing and without error...

>> No.16975896

Could make them take double wounds instead or something. That it, if such effects have been removed completely from 40k for "streamlining".

>> No.16975938

That could be an army rule, but than i'd be wary of MORE musical wounds bullshit.

>> No.16975945

I don't think "Synapse grants Eternal Warrior" is a great way of fixing the rules, but the chap mentions he wants the alterations to be simple. A global house rule change like that is probably far easier to implement and for non-Tyranid players to remember, than individually tweaking each unit's stats and points costs

>> No.16975951

Tyrannofexes should be able to fire their weapons at different units. Makes em worth that obscene 250 points, or just lower their prices.

>> No.16975988

the EW "glut" was only present in tyranids

and it kept warriors and carnifexes from becoming the missile/forceweapon bait they are now

>> No.16975989

This is true. It is tough for Warriors, because ID wounds usually have to be given to undamaged models, right?

>> No.16975994

>1) Synapse grants Eternal Warrior.
Would help immensely in the current metagame

My personal thought - genestealers = power weapons - makes those fuckers truly scary.

>> No.16976008

they're already scary. They just need frag grenades, as right now charging into cover makes them take saves on their shitty 5+

>> No.16976012


All MCs in Tyranids Codex need a massive price reduction. Except maybe Tervigons

Cruddance was afraid of Nidzilla being the only playable list again, and instead of making other builds competitive he simply made nid MCs so expensive that they are unusable.

Tyranofexes could be worth about 200 points with their BS3, Carnifexes would be good buys at 150~180 points.

The way they are right now? Tyranofexes are only used because tyranids are awfully short of ranged anti-tank. And they happen to be the 'less worse' option once your hive guard slots are filled

>> No.16976018

Except in the current climate of the game where EW is a premium ability, would it justify the points cost, or a rise in points cost?
Most units with EW are not commonly used because they frequently are not worth the cost they command.

>> No.16976039


Sorry, meant carnifexes at 130~160, not 150~180

Really, their base price would be a good price for one that came with a HVC, or a CC kit.

>> No.16976047

One idea I had was that Tyranid units in Synapse range count as being equipped with Assault Grenades and having Move Through Cover. To represent the Hive Mind relentlessly driving those creatures in it's thrall onwards regardless of whatever's in their path.

>> No.16976048

Carnifex are 160 right now, why increase the price to 180?

In all honesty, they're worth 120-140 max without upgrades. They're just too slow and too easy to kill.

>> No.16976060

Maybe just get tone down the amount of ID that's in this game right now.

>> No.16976062

>Most units with EW are not commonly used because they frequently are not worth the cost they command.
see, most tyranid units are like that

except they don't get EW, and are generally shitty in terms of stats

>> No.16976090


I believe that currently warriors are too cheap to come with EW standard, and too expensive to not have it and be victms of S8.

Also, they have another, much bigger problem - Gaunts + Tervigon are simply much better for scoring.

>> No.16976106


I find it really strange that more things don't get move through cover.

I'd hate to take away the Striking Scorpions only real fancy shtick but really now.

>> No.16976126

T-fexes need to be BS4 and have at least a 30 pts discount.

Overall, Tyranid MC's need to be either cheap (50 pts) and able to squadron or have 2+/4++. That's the way that viable MC's like Spyders and the Dreadknight work and that's the way to make them viable without giving EW like candy.

On everything else:

The FAQ needs to be re-written:

Mycetic Spores have to work like Drop Pods, Hive Commander has to stack, Shadow in the Warp has to work on vehicles, Lictor's Pheromone Trail has to work while off-table. Those would make reserve/drop builds viable. Oh, everything can use the Mawloc's tunnel and their Blast have +1S and ignores cover (so is useful).

The other main issue is the woeful lack of ranged anti-tank. Which EVERYBODY NEEDS on 5th edition. So, Venom/Heavy Venom Cannons lose the "lol -1 to the damage table roll" so they don't suck so hard on the post-GK world.

In short, the codex needs a massive rewrite because, besides being underpowered is NOT FUN TO PLAY ON EITHER SIDE OF THE BOARD.

>> No.16976148


Keep in mind that when we are looking at warriors we are looking at terminator price ( ~40 points per model )

3W and 4+ does not make them resilient enough to justify that high of a price. Especially since they are much more vulnerable to anti-infantary and anti-ligh tank guns.

If you compare tyranid warriors with another units, you should be comparing them with terminators and hammernators for shooty/CC warriors. Thats what cost about the same as them on other codexes.

>> No.16976157


Oh, and Warriors need to be T5.

>> No.16976172
File: 218 KB, 842x451, ragedude.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Why were deathspitters reduced to tyranid storm bolters?
Why were venom cannons reduced to pseudo-barbed stranglers?
Why did some weapons warrant having monstrous creature variants while others did not?
Why was living ammunition removed altogether?
Why the severe reduction in interesting wargear and options? (feeder tendrils, 95% of Carnifex equipment, etc.)

Goddammit, I need to close this thread. I'm only reminded of how much potential one man managed to squander.


>> No.16976181

All Tyranids in Synapse range get an invulnerable save. In order to prevent it from getting too powerful, I think maybe their regular save should count as being invulnerable, but that would lead to 3+ invulnerables on bigger models. Or maybe just a flat 5+ invulnerable.

We don't get whining about Eternal Warrior being too good, and Tyranids don't suck balls. Also, Warriors are now T5.

>> No.16976241

So what makes Gargoyles to good anyway? They're just Termagaunts with wings that cost more.

>> No.16976262

5+ inv on big expensive monsters would just be a waste.

Sure it might save you hear and there but it's just not reliable. I can see it working on models under a 100 points or so, but on thing 150+? I'd so go with a 4+ inv for those, 3+ on models over 200-250.

Also, give the Swarmlord EW for christs sakes GW!

One force weapon gets through and that's it for my 280 point model? Bull fucking shit.

>> No.16976264


but now they can fly and outlank?

>> No.16976266

>cost more
1 point more.

1 point that gets you twice the movement as well as auto-wound on 6's to hit in close combat.

And depending on how willing you are to spend the extra points, they can have poison 4+ and/or furious charge.

>> No.16976278

Gargoyles can't outflank. They can deepstrike, though, if you feel for it.

>> No.16976280

That was sort of my idea. So Tyranids within Synapse range get their armour save turned invulnerable. Mean at least a 3+ invulnerable save on most big expensive beasties, while gaunts would just get a 6+ and Warriors a 4+.

Seems an easy way to fix most of the issues, though it would inevitably lead to overpoweredness. Invulnerable Hive Guard spring to mind.

>> No.16976281

They move faster and and have that nice Acid Spit ability that makes 6's to hit auto-wound.

If you give them Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands they can be pretty deadly in CC. Mostly against MCs.

Oh look, there goes more Nids out the door...

Why can't walkers be this fragile? I don't see my Trygons being immune to str 4 and below models like all Walkers are. And walkers are cheaper too boot.

>> No.16976360


Without Eternal Warrior, this is still a balanced fix. One Battle Cannon shell and a bad save, no more Hive Guard. I might be able to convince my local meta to give it a try.

>> No.16976534

Check these out and tell me what you guys think.

Not made by me, btw.






I think this guy solved a lot of problems with the dex.

Also, dat Hive Tyrant entry.

>> No.16976601


Gaunt squads, one left flank, one right flank, one center, t prine with center squad, tervibons staggered between the 3 squads. Its a synapse net that allows you to spread troops where they're needed or conenctrate everything into a lance point. Doom is a wild card. Might drop in and win the game, might drop in, eat shit, and die. I have had doom kill a dreadknight the turn he came in, in two separate games, for instance. Trygons are flexible, you can prop em up on the front lines for cover, bullet sinks, or reserve them to pop up later.

>> No.16976671

I'd change the wording so that it says "creatures within synapse range MAY treat their saving throw as invulnerable" to avoid nullzone-style shenanigans

but yeah, I like it.

>> No.16976755

Hmm, thought more of you guys would have been interested...

>> No.16976794

Reading through it right now. I really like a lot of the changes. I could go a bit farther with a few, but what's there is a huge improvement already.

>> No.16976814

Shrikes and Warriors have a problem where they can have double rending claws, but can't take a cool CC weapon with a cool ranged weapon.

>> No.16976818

If you wanna jot down your ideas it would be welcomed.

I want to try out a few games with these rules but I doubt my gaming group would let me.

>> No.16976861

Someone should send this to GW with a note attached saying "This is how you write a Codex you insufferable twats!"

>> No.16977672

Warriors were reduced a bit in survivability via wounds, despite the T5 boost. I'd still consolidate Tyranid Prime into their slot, making it an upgradable character. Perhaps slot the Doom into an HQ slot to compensate?

Pyrovores still need something. Not sure what. Maybe rending on their ranged attack.

Eternal Warrior Synapse upgrades would be nice for certain synapse creatures.

The Parasite still feels overcosted, as do the monstrous creatures.

>> No.16977801


Hey now, my Orks have shitty ranged Anti-tank options. And I manage to do decently in 5th ed.

>> No.16977948


you're missing the fact that tyranid players are all whinny, inconsiderate, twats that care only about their army. Case and point thinking every thing important should have high T, good armour, Inv., or EW across the board. They're all huge cunts, and the fact that they had the nerve to complain about chaos players complaining is insufferable.

The nid book isn't as bad as they say. It's the worst 5th book, a bit worse than SM, but the entire edition is so close that baring GK it doesn't matter. There is no making these people happy reasonably in my opinion.

>> No.16979124

If it hasn't already been said the following changes:
Lower point cost on Carnifex: Like 4th edition low.
Lictors: Run and assault after deep striking.

>> No.16979169

the easiest way to make pyrovores better is to give them the hellhound inferno cannon rules. Maybe throw in a special rule that lets them fire while pinned (going-to-ground) to represent them "locking down" their hand-claw supports.

>Lictors: Run and assault after deep striking.
with the new flesh hook rules, chances are you'll want to be shooting the rear armour of whatever tank you're charging. Allowing them to assault after deep-strikes would be a good fix, but their pheremone trail needs to work while they're off the board. Right now it's pretty useless

Orks need as much work as tyranids do, to be honest. They're both decent enough armies when you're playing casually though

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