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[ERROR] No.16691106 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

I was talking to a buddy of mine earlier in the week and we've both known each other for about 7 years and both played 40k for over 10 years, but I realised today that he'd never played 2nd edition 40k. As much of a lore fag he was, and the stage he went through of 'Just buying the codexes' (It's call lapsing in, lapsing out, or relapsing guys, its just the gateway drug), He'd never even picked up a book before 3rd edition, despite being the same age as me. I talked to a load of guys at my wargames club and even guys much older than me, not many of them had much exposure to anything pre-3rd ed.

I don't like being some kind of rules hipster. I'm not trying to get a bigger e-penis by claiming to be an 40k oldfag, I'm just gutted that a lot of people missed out on the edition of the game that got me into it, an edition I loved, and edition where each codex was more powerful than the last, and no one complained (or I refused to listen if they did)

And well, I'm a sucker for nostalgia, so I'm going to share with you some gems from 'Second to None' edition 40k. Art, Rules, fluff, whatever. I'll start with pic related. Then we'll move on to Mr Wards favorite codex, Chaos, guard, sisters, etc. And just enjoy the Over Powered goodness of 2nd ed, the skirmish game.

>> No.16691152

Looking through the book, first thing that catches my eye... It has a fucking Further Reading section...

This introduction to the Space Marines is necessarily brief. Further information about the creation of the Space Marines,
the Horus Heresy and the Codex Astartes can be found in
Codex Ultramarines and, to a lesser extent, in Codex Space
Wolves. Our monthly magazine White Dwarf regularly carries
articles about the history of the Imperium and the troops that
form the Imperial armies. In addition Space Marine, Titan
Legions and Armies of the Imperium for the Epic system
include extensive information about the 'higher level'
organisation of the Space Marines

>> No.16691160

Oooh, Angels of Death, nice.

>> No.16691181


God damn man, never realised how fucking lame blood angels have gotten since then.

>> No.16691201

Did Cypher ever get nerfed?

Does he still have a C'tan Phase Knife?

>> No.16691219

I'm putting together a torrent/rapidshare of all the 2nd Ed Codexes. Some are damn hard to find

>> No.16691239

As far as I know, he always had it, but I don't know if he made it past 3rd edition.

>> No.16691281 [DELETED] 

With WS 7, BS 8, 3 attacks and LD 10, Maybe its best he didn't make the cut

Back to the Blood Angels. Mephiston sure looks a lot more like just a motherfucking heretical vampire than I remember.

>YFW Mephiston spelt backwards is vampire
>YFW its not but seriously, DAMN Mephiston, just fucking tone down WoD shit

>> No.16691313

Hey, started the hobby 2 (3?) years ago. So basically in 5th edition.
I don't know much about the previous editions. I once saw a picture of the starter 2th edition's starter set and if I much prefer the present one, I must admit that people would had great fun back in the time (a fucking pictures of a dreadnough to represent it! What more do you want?!).
But i'm a bit curious about 3rd edition. I know that the starter set was Black Templar vs Dark Eldar but I never saw pictures of it or what was inside the box. Anyone have some? Or could send me a link?
Also, I sincerely regret Makari the Grot. I readed his fluff and I really want him back. That lil' guy is awesome and I plan to model a unit of him. Just for the hell of it.
Also, sorry for bringing 3rd edition when it is a second edition's thread. I will post that picture so we could stick in the subject a bit.

>> No.16691323

In second edition, often the miniatures took the term 'Heroic Scale' to new and exciting limits, by creating miniatures so out of proportion, if someone with those body dimensions were actually born, there would be a 36th week abortion on our hands. But hey, whatever, it was the late nineties, and everyone's minis looked like that.

These two Blood angel commanders perfectly capture the spirit of deformity with their massive guns and challice

>> No.16691361

3rd edition starter! It was unbalanced to fuck. I bought two naturally. You got 16 Multipart Plastic Dark Eldar. They were the worst miniatures ever, and everyone used them for body parts on dead guys on your bases. No self respecting dark eldar player used them, except for converting Craftworld Guardians to DE.

Space marines had one of the brand new at that time multi part tactical squads with a flamer and missile launcher and also brand new, a multipart plastic landspeeder. You can already see the balance issues here... right?

You also got your templates, three barrels, a set of plastic jungle trees, some tank traps, some quick reference cards and the full fullsized rulebook. It was £49.

>> No.16691381

christ! its like between second edition and now GW artists learned 2 body proportions.

Also everything in these images look so static and boring. Im honestly surprised that GW ever had such bad art in official publications

>> No.16691387

He's long gone dude.

>> No.16691400


Nah. Cypher basically got the rules to use his plasma weapons in close combat. The phase knife got removed .

>> No.16691402

>2nd edition
>Tycho's iron sights are so huge that they obscure his scope

I guess some things never change.

>> No.16691405


The thing is, second did pretty much suck. The game was more or less unplayable because instead of having inconsistent balance and artificial power creep, it had no balance and no consistency to the rules. There were so many extra fucking effects on everything that turns took hours on modestly-large games. It was strange-rules-random fun, but not an actual wargame.

Also, the fluff was weak and mostly just not physically there. The reason there's more inconsistency now is because there's more fluff in any two modern books than in second total.

The one thing it did have was the Wargear book, which had some incredibly powerful short stories. They could learn a lesson from how well that set its own atmosphere instead of writing dumb bullshit fanfictionesque power trips about the latest stupid masturbatory character.

"Heresy is like a tree, its roots lie in the darkness whilst its leaves wave in the sun and to those who suspect nought it has an attractive and pleasing appearance. Truly, you can prune away its branches, or even cut the tree to the ground, but it will grow up again ever the stronger and ever more comely. Yet all awhile the root grows thick and black, gnawing at the bitter soil, drawing its nourishment from the darness, and growing even greater and more deeply entrenched.

Such is the nature of heresy, and this is why it is so hard to destroy, for it must be eradicated leaf, branch, trunk, and root. It must be exorcised uterlly or it will return all the stronger, time and time again, until it is too great to destroy. Then we are doomed."

Galan Noirgrim
Master of the Ordo Malleus
Prelude to The Abominatus

>> No.16691416


He got rules about a year ago in the Dark Angels focused White Dwarf.

He isn't a HORRIBLE character but he isn't as good as his previous incarnation.

>> No.16691418

You'll need the cards too, they're as important as the rules. I'm almost done with transcribing them but never quite make that final push on the Wargear deck.

Which books are you missing? I struggled with Eldar, still only have hard copy orks (not ruining my binding for ye, sorry).

>> No.16691420

On the Chaos Codex 2nd ed, there's this amazing piece by John Blanche. The size limits and the fact I can't get a good scan limit my posting, but he takes all the main Chaos Space Marine legions and draws them using references from actual models. Then he give modelling advice on how to make them. Its amazing, and I'm sad I can't post it, and sad I've never seen it replicated in a codex since (to my knowledge)

>> No.16691421

"The more I learn about these aliens, the more I come to understand what drives them, the more I hate them. I hate them for what they are and what they may one day become. I hate them not because they hate us, but because they are incapable of good, honest, human hatred."

Inquisitor Angmar on Tyranids

"Every time a human warrior dies in battle the Emperor's shrivelled eye sheds a single barely perceptible tear. His Custodians collect each tear in a golden cup and carefully fill tiny phials with the precious liquid.There are few talismans in all the galaxy as potent as the tears the Emperor weeps, suffused, as they are with his unimaginable might. But so tiny is each tear that each small phial, itself but the size of the tip of the smallest finger, contains thousands of individual tears. Only in the bloodiest wars does the Emperor weep freely, so that the golden cup runs over, fortelling of terrible destruction of the Emperor's armies."

>> No.16691434

Years ago the world of Chicano lay at the centre of a rich trading sector in the eastern part of the Imperium known as the Ultima Segmentum. The skies of Chicano were continually criss-crossed with the vapour trails of merchant lighters carrying precious fuel minerals to the orbital trading stations far above.

Interstellar spacecraft from the whole sector clustered around Chicano, their merchant crews bidding frantically for cargoes, while Free Captains stood ready in orbit awaiting the chance to snap up a lucrative contract. Below on the planet itself the mining machines and tireless fuel pumps worked at the harsh rock, squeezing the wealth of the world from the ground.

In control of it all was Lord Xian Torus, hereditary ruler and the ultimate power over everything and everyone on Chicano. It was he who approved the inheritance of the Mine Lords and who allowed the shipping families to pass on their ships and contracts to their eldest sons. As the whole world prospered so the ruler and Lords of Chicano also prospered and the planet's people grew to be rich and content.

Today Chicano is a barren rock where a few tired barbarians scrape a living from the ruins of its once thriving cities. The skies of Chicano are an unblemished blue and when a passing spacecraft is spotted travelling through the night it is accounted a rare wonder. Now Chicano is famous not for its wealth or commerce, but because it is the World that Died in One Night.

>> No.16691442

>weak fluff
What the fuck. Maybe you're thinking of 3rd edition.

The game itself has crazy rules, but far more tactics due to variable movement and strict target priority.

The Wargear book did have amazing stuff, though. Dark Communion oh my god.

>> No.16691447

From a thousand hidden cults the followers of Tzeentch revealed themselves: lords and labourers alike, they had undermined the rule of Lord Xian Torus in more ways than one. Tunnelling machines burst from beneath the royal palace, driven by the frenzied hands of the cultists, so that the palace and a greater part of the capital sank into a vast pit and vanished forever.

As the city collapsed so a million cultists sprang from their hiding places to reclaim what remained, the staffs of merchant princes, the retinues of Mine Lords, warriors of the Chicanan army, and even some amongst Xian's most trusted ministers were revealed for what they had become.

And from beyond the warp came the laughter of the Lord of Chaos, Tzeentch the Changer of Ways, and his minions rejoiced to hear him though for the first time they knew in their hearts what they had done.

>> No.16691457

I wish John Blanche would abuse the hell out of his Art Director position and put his stuff in all the codexes, all the time these days.

>> No.16691463


Fucking look at the rulebook. There's like fifteen pieces in total and most of the just openly suck.

Now look at the 3rd rulebook. There's more fluff in there than there was in most of 2nd.

There were some very good things in 2nd, and most of them were short stories in the Wargear book. But there was both much, much less of it, and just as high a proportion of bad. And it's pretty hard to put out that proportion of bad stories when there's like a hundred in the entire edition.

>> No.16691477

And tactics? Piss off. There are more things you can do, because there were like fifty times more things. But tactics implies there is a kind of plannign, and there was no plannign at all in second. It wqas just random-ass bullshti out of every orifice, and was gamable to the point where it was possible to put together lists that were literally factually undefeatable except by specific lists.

>> No.16691492

Look at the codices. They're thick as 5th edition ones and way better quality. Look at 3rd edition codices. They're barely more than pamphlets.

>> No.16691509

>The thing is, second did pretty much suck. The game was more or less unplayable because instead of having inconsistent balance and artificial power creep, it had no balance and no consistency to the rules. There were so many extra fucking effects on everything that turns took hours on modestly-large games. It was strange-rules-random fun, but not an actual wargame.

Yes, it was horrible as a wargame and turns took hours. So me and my buddies never played large games. It was a bad wargame. It was still a great skirmish game though. It was still in transition from skirmish game to full grown wargame. It was the middle ground. It had all this delusion that it could run massive armies, but realistically, it was still a skirmish game. A special character masterbation game, really. I loved it though, and it birthed Necromunda based on this style of gameplay, and people universally love that game.

>Also, the fluff was weak and mostly just not physically there. The reason there's more inconsistency now is because there's more fluff in any two modern books than in second total.

I really don't agree. The second edition books are HUEGly narrative in fluff. Every space marine book gives you the entire run down of everything that was fluffed at that time about space marines. The books if anything have too much fluff. You get the entire back story, plus about 10 stories a book, and Its also the first source of a load of the fluff we take for granted now. If rogue trader drowned us with information, and sometimes had pure fluff books, 2nd ed had about 50/50 balance, and definately more fluff than 3rd and 5th edition codexes. Especially for vanilla versions of races.

>> No.16691525

Truth be told, he's probably the best kind of Art Director, professionally speaking.

>"What I'm good at is capturing the quintessential feel of a character and bringing it to life in the Warhammer world. What Alex Boyd is brilliant at is making things look damn good. My artwork is generally not seen that much these days - I provide the language for the project and then place it within our universes. It's then up to guys like Alex to take that forward and produce the pieces that you see in our books."

Not that I don't love me some John Blanche.

>> No.16691526

Lol, no. You HAD to maneuver if you wanted to be able to direct your fire. You HAD to plan, because the other guy was on overwatch.
The 2e rules are hardly more complicated than 5th, and you're wearing shit-tinted glasses.

>> No.16691529

Not that I don't hate me some Boyd.

>> No.16691531

>The one thing it did have was the Wargear book, which had some incredibly powerful short stories. They could learn a lesson from how well that set its own atmosphere instead of writing dumb bullshit fanfictionesque power trips about the latest stupid masturbatory character.

I have this, and will post some stuff soon. I agree its probably the best of the 2nd ed stuff

Oh you meant the rulebook? yeah no. 3rd had all the fluff in it, 2nd was shit for fluff. But then 3rd only really had imperial stuff. None of the codexes had much in the way of fluff, so if your were a 3rd ed eldar, ork or xeno player, you were fucked, untill they started releasing armageddon and new codexes for the same edition and other shit. You relied on WD articles and shit.

>> No.16691539

2nd had no fluff in the rulebook, because there was Codex Imperialis, which is still the best summary of 40k fluff.

>> No.16691568

That is why the proportions are horrible, because the man cannot do proportions.

I started out with 2nd edition, and looking aback at it now, I find it odd that 1st edition really had all the iconic artwork and imagery. 2nd had some pretty bland art and it suffered greatly from being in the Red era. That and the rules system, well, frankly it still could have done with a GM to impose balance. At least it was satisfyingly chunky, and could have been streamlined down a good bit. Though doing that lead to 3rd edition.

3rd whilst bland-ing the fuck out of the rules system to a massive degree, at least brought back a good degree of the grim&gritty in the artwork, which in 2nd edition had largely been lost due to over sanitizing the game from it's Rogue Trader origins. Rogue Trader being famous for it's utterly fucked up in places fluff which did not really shy away from much, which helped the setting establish itself as something entirely different to other future stuff, even things like battletech which was in it's post-apocalypse knights in mechs phase at that time.

I kinda feel 40k is doing a bit of a loop on itself currently, getting back a lot of the colourful and cartoony but often somewhat bland artwork and imagery, especially in the models. Warhammer fantasy too got hit with it big over the past few years. I'm not sure this is a good thing, or at least a good thing in the way it is happening.

>> No.16691573

>There were some very good things in 2nd, and most of them were short stories in the Wargear book. But there was both much, much less of it, and just as high a proportion of bad. And it's pretty hard to put out that proportion of bad stories when there's like a hundred in the entire edition.

It just doesn't seem like you're looking at all the sources here for 2nd ed. So much fluff, and so much gold. You had hundreds and hundreds of stories in it, lots of gold, and lots of nto very fleshed out bits for your to add your imagination too.

I see what you're saying about 3rd ed, there were a lot of new stories, in a more consistent style, of a generally higher quality, but in terms of fluff, there was less overall. If you pick up codex: Space Marines 3rd ed and just look at it, compared to Codex: Ultramarines 2nd ed, immediately the 2nd ed book is nicer. Its thicker, its got mountains of information and fluff, and in many ways it has LESS masterbation about ultras than the current space marine codex

>> No.16691597

Early Blanche, not great at proportions, but he's still the best pure Artist GW have under them. There's lots of cool art, but Blanche has made the only pieces I'd consider beautiful. Also all that gritty 3rd ed art? definately all the pieces you're thinking about were also Blanche. I'd spit out my tea comically if I'm wrong.

>> No.16691607 [DELETED] 

>yfw Cypher will be in the next Dark Angel's Codex.

>> No.16691616 [DELETED] 

>as in You Fucking Wish

>> No.16691624

I guy can wish can't he? Cypgher is my favorite Dark Angels character. ;-;

>> No.16691627

For 3rd I mainly recall the guy who did the art for several of the comics as well, I think he started out on 2000AD. Tended to do lots of pics of heads. Wish I could remember his name.

>> No.16691655

Oh snap, tea succesfully spat out. He drew the Titan Comic. I know who you're talking about, but his name also escapes me. That wasn't really as gritty as blanches 3rd ed cover, or golden throne and administratum stuff, or his sisters stuff, but it was definately more like rogue trader, because rogue trader art was like 2000ad art. it was that whole 80's british comic aesthetic.

>> No.16691670

>Implying John Blanche isn't the greatest and most versatile sci-fi and fantasy artist of the 80's and 90's


>> No.16691696

Yeah. That guy.

Also, Adrian Smith never disappointed me with his art in any edition from 1st onwards. He just didn't get enough of it in 2nd edition, too much of the codex work (especially marines) went to Mark Gibbons. Who was nice an all, had some good pics, but was mostly kinda dull.

>> No.16691698 [DELETED] 

>yfw, both these were painted by the same guy

>> No.16691700

Wayne England.

>> No.16691724


Thank you, I can sleep now knowing that won't be bothering me.

>> No.16691738 [DELETED] 

>2e art

>> No.16691756

Sleep well, dearie.

>> No.16691789

I haven't been a fan since his stuff from the latest Space Wolves book on. Is that when he switched to digital? That might be it.

>> No.16691796

I'm an utter blanche fanboy, but even his minis are fucking sweet.

>> No.16691810

About then, yeah. His style didn't go through a super dramatic change, I'm okay with it, I'd rather real painting though, that integrity is something GW's art department needs to hang on to.

>> No.16691820


>> No.16691832

>Edition wars quickly break out into art artist appreciation

Smells like /tg/

Wonder how much Nlanche is on as art director...

I only ask because all the gold on these miniatures is gold leaf...

>> No.16691850

hmmm, you posted my image... and it deleted mine... MAGIC. But yeah, the gold on them, is gold leaf....

>> No.16691867

It's not very much gold leaf, and artist's gold leaf isn't really very expensive, especially that little. Probably just tiny scraps from his studio.

>> No.16691881

As far as I know, for GW and FW books, he's the only digital painter (well, I'm sure there are minor digital tweaks to tiddy and crop the works up for publication). But I'm an unabashed Dainton and Kopinski fanboy, their shit is tight.
Hot damn. Seriously, those plastic clamshells are the best idea GW has had in years.

>> No.16691895

I will never get to go to games day and bear hug this beautiful man.

>> No.16691959

>> No.16692006

I've met him at a few games days, he's very ecentric artiste' rather than geeky painter.

It isn't? Great, first airbrushes, now this. Soon I'll have an airbrushed, oil paint blended with sable brushes, magnitised changable backpacks, with gold leaf paldrons space marine army...

I'm going to have to start taking out insurance on my models....

>> No.16692036

I could never do any better or anywhere close, but is it me, or is the blending not as high quality as on the other models on this one?

>> No.16692047

Well this has to get posted... The model that won him the golden demon that got him the job...

>> No.16692057

I would like to know about the Savlar Chem Dogs, sir.

>> No.16692083

Does it need to be?

>> No.16692095

Buncha thieving gits. Almost as bad as ratlings.

>captcha: elfwas is
If you believe enough, yes...

>> No.16692106

I need heady source material and artwork. That was Garcia's favorite weed.

>> No.16692117

they never got mentioned in 2nd edition. Lemme dig out rogue trader a sec.

>> No.16692126


>> No.16692130

Don't waste your time, they were 3rd edition.

>> No.16692137

>> No.16692156

>searching for chem dogs
>find History of JonJon Blanchisan
>From the planet Steu - Diio

>> No.16692161

These would all be great for DH. I should bitz up some N/PC minis, now that I think about it.
Gaah, too many projects I want to do!

>> No.16692167

Not a wasted journey if I found Jonjon Blanchisan!

>> No.16692207

I fuckin' know, right? Makes me want to run DH.
>But I will never be ultramablanche, for my figs are much lamer, pic related.

>> No.16692233

Well its dark and grimey enough to match blanche, just needs more gold leaf and oil paint blending. Oh and converting through the wassu. Dude invented converting as far as an earlier posted pictures says

>> No.16692259

The pose is actually based on his illustration of the Grey Knights in Dark Millennium. Other than that, yeah, I know I know.
Thing is, I didn't really start painting that way to imitate his style. It actually started as "what happens when I shade white by blending orange into the underparts" and evolved that direction by the addition of devlan mud and swapping the white for dheneb stone. Then I saw that illustration, and was like, wait, I could sort of pull that off.

>> No.16692272

>Also, I fucking got the shoulder pads on the wrong sides somehow and this will haunt me to my grave because I love the mini other than that.

>> No.16692287

Damn son, that's some nice painting. Way better then mine. Also, does that really say "Steel" on his hip? These new plastics, I tell ya what.
I just have too much to do. I've filled some of the gaps in Pic related, and have all the pieces for his foot version, but then I've got regular troops and tanks, a skink SC, converting the Manticore and Zombie Dragon riders to foot models, and that isn't even getting to painting.

>> No.16692304

It says "steel" because GW decided that Imperial Guardsmen have the right to know why Grey Knights are exterminating them. So now Grey Knights have STEEL FAITH TITAN NEMISIS DAEMON INQUISITION GREY KNIGHT REALLY SORRY written all over them in friendly low gothic.

>> No.16692457

Not sure how hard it is to apply leaf to minis though. I get the impression it's difficult just on a flat surface. But that might just be an impression.

>> No.16692531

>> No.16692541

I'm glad he's posting his minis all over fan blogs now. What a bro.

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