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[ERROR] No.16511386 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Yesterday I was thinking about Mary Sues, and I suddenly remembered this series of stories I read when I was still big into meta-fiction.

The basic premise was that Mary Sues were like fiction parasites; they came into a fictional world and warped it around them by their existence and bad writing. Characters acted out of character, the sue had powers or was a race that did not exist in the setting, bad grammar and descriptions would distort the landscape, and at worse they could tear holes in the story by doing things they should not be able to. The main characters were agents of an organization dedicated to finding the Sues and disposing of them without reveling themselves to the natural occupants of the world. Now, if the agents ever tried to fight a Sue head on it would be a complete curb-stomp, so they had to kill them quickly and stealthily, in a way that is probable for the world (arrow to the head on Middle Earth, being shot in a more modern setting, I think once they fed a Sue to Discworld elves) while at the same time not harming the canon characters that would be inevitably worshiping them.

Thinking back on it the agents were annoying fan-girls and arguably bigger sues than the ones they were hunting, but I think this would make for an interesting game setting. Fearless agents diving into corrupt, twisted fiction and slaying the reality warping goddess at the center of it all, all while hiding your presence from the canon characters. I guess I was wondering what /tg/ thinks of the idea.

>> No.16511432

>>16511386
An interesting premise.

However it rides a slippery slope, for the players themselves becoming sues. One of the hazards for the organization, I suppose, become too much of a sue, you yourself end up becoming hunted.

>> No.16511467

Defenders of the Plot Continuum or something like that was the name, iirc. I'd be shocked if no one ever turned it into a seriously messed up woD fanline.

>> No.16511536

Man, I wrote a story like that as a kid and thought I was the shit (and was totally in love with The Matrix). I know how dumb it all is now, but I still think back to it once and a while and smile. Shit, I even have all the plots committed to memory.

Anyways, I could see that working. You are members of an organization dedicated to eliminate entities capable of warping realities to their whims. The problem is that the more you do that, the more you become "free" (so to speak), and at that point, it's really only your own self control and humility that prevents you from going AWOL, jumping into some offbeat reality, and making a paradise in your own image.

I could see it using something like FATE meets WoD, in terms of gameplay. Players would need to have lots of freedom to fight people who have lots of freedom, but be prepared to deal with the consequences on their own mental health.

>> No.16511545

>>16511386
That's what I remember happening in the stories, minus the part where you become the hunted. Instead, the whole organization became the exact thing they hunted without realizing it. It would have been a fitting end if I believed it was intentional.

I think the problem was with the tone. the stories were more of a vehicle for making fun of fan-fiction and were mostly lighthearted. What I'm envisioning is more along the lines of, I guess, Hunter. No taking anything in with you. No interacting with any of the important canon characters. You must use the equipment found in the world itself to engineer the death of an omnipotent, childish cancer before it tears the story completely asunder.

>> No.16511624

>>16511545
One of my other inspirations for this was a checklist of how to kill a reality warper on the SCP Foundation. Just replace ever instance of "type green" with "mary sue" and I think it works remarkably well.

Reality Benders (Type Greens) have a certain mystique among operatives. They have been attributed a variety of powers, from immortality to mind control. Some operatives even argue that it is impossible to silence a Type Green, and it is suicide to even try.

Bollocks.

The truth is, Reality Benders are human, and they have human flaws. Consider the following:

Reality Benders cannot predict the future and can be taken by surprise.

Reality Benders have limited range and cannot affect what they cannot percieve.

Reality Benders cannot impose their will on anything if they have no will to impose.

Reality Benders have human foibles and can be manipulated emotionally and/or rationally.

Note that this holds true for 95% of Type Greens. For the 5% that this does not apply to… well, you've got a slight problem.

>> No.16511636

>>16511432
I never asked for this

>> No.16511650

>>16511636

>> No.16511661

I remembered this thread.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13722924/

>> No.16511664

>>16511624
Never talk to the target. Never look them in the eye. Never do anything that will allow yourself to humanize them. When the time comes to make the kill, you must be direct, forceful, and without mercy. Don't do anything that will make that harder.

PHASE 1: Denial The subject refuses to acknowledge their Special Talent. The Type Green will attempt to rationalize away their abilities by various means. In some cases, the Type Green will end here: their ability will be self-suppressed, and they will not proceed. However, most then proceed to:

PHASE 2: Experimentation The subject acknowledges their abilities and begins to test the limits of their powers. In general, Type Greens tend to experiment in one of two patterns: slowly, methodically, and carefully, advancing a small amount at a time, or in a small number of sudden jumps. In any case, the subject will generally remain in this mode for some time, before proceeding to:

>> No.16511679

>>16511664
PHASE 3: Stability The subject reaches the limit of their powers, and determines the boundaries of their abilities. The Type Green achieves control over their reality shifts, and can manipulate them as necessary. More importantly, they can choose not to utilize their abilities, if needed.

Phase 3 is characterized by attempts to live a "normal" life. The subject will continue in normal routines, and aside from necessary precautions to prevent losing control, will utilize their abilities only in private, and only in a manner that will not harm others. These Type Greens may be classified as Threat Level 1 (monitor, do not engage), but should be monitored closely, due to the risk of proceeding to Phase 4.

PHASE 4: The Child-God Sadly, the majority of Type Greens will end at Phase 4. During this phase, the reality bender becomes obsessed with the power it possesses and will attempt to utilize it for personal gain at the cost of others. This phase is marked by reduced empathy for other humans, inability to accept personal faults, and increased megalomania.

Although warning signs are numerous, the key aspect of a Phase 4 is the use of their abilities to manipulate other humans. Teenage and young adult Type Greens will typically use their abilities for sexual purposes, while children will attempt to make strangers their "friends." Older adults may attempt to manipulate others for love or financial gain. Although a few cases have resulted where the Type Green then reverts to Phase 3, 99% of them will remain at Phase 4 until eliminated. For this reason, Phase 4 Type Greens should be considered Threat Level 5 (Immediate Threat) and eliminated immediately.

>> No.16511685

>OP's pic
>character on left not-Mary Sue
aaaaaaahahahahahhaha

>> No.16511690

So, a question about Sues? Can they exist if they're not in a setting that they're not originally from?

That is, if you took the offending fan-character from the setting it was inserted into, and put it in a setting where what that character is and can do at least exists is it still a Sue?

>> No.16511695

>>16511679
Any attempt to eliminate a Type Green must take into consideration the three factors for Dynamic Entry in close quarter battle.

Speed: Type Greens are able to quickly react to any threat. In order to ensure a successful kill, the operation must take no longer than one second from initiation of hostilities to termination of subject.

Surprise: Type Greens are able to quickly adapt to known threats. It is recommended that a bluff play be carried out: an overt threat is to be presented to the subject for them to fixate upon, while the actual kill is carried out from an unexpected direction.

Violence of Action: Any means of eliminated a Type Green must ensure a successful kill in one shot. Sniper weapons must utilize .50 caliber rounds, preferably hollow-point for maximum expansion, or armor-piercing, as needed. Firearms are, of course, a secondary kill choice: explosives are recommended, but may not be usable due to collatoral damage risks.

>> No.16511715

>>16511690
Yes.
A Sue is not a set of powers, at least not exclusively.
OP's pic is wrong.
Being a Sue is a matter of personality.

>> No.16511734

If you do such a thing, the worlds Mobius (SONIC WORLD) is lost to the tide, The world of the Dragonball is restricted for it's higher corruption factor (There are more sues funneling to or from the place to make it worth it, but it is an equal ground for those willing to risk their necks to get a study of the creatures and/or try to nip them in the bud), In fact, just say that the Mangaverse is too risky to tempt in general. Kingdom Heart universe is easiest to nip from, because many of the sues stemming from such are the type that are in it for emotional attainment, making them remarkably easier to attack than the head-on assaulting capabilities of many of the other zones.

Also, all agents are to be equipped with pouches of rocks, dust, and given a frying pan, because only the most mundane of equipment may harm the 'mangasue' variety.

>> No.16511740

>>16511690
The problem is that they're cancerous. They want to be the center of attention and will corrupt any world they come into. In the case your talking about, they would either be better at everything than Canon characters, or every canon character would become incompetent and fawn all over the sue.

>> No.16511763

>western author giving fictional character asian ancestry/parents/name
Automatic sue
>making up a stupid name for their stupid race
Automatic sue
>Flaws: Clumsy, bad at math
AUTOMATIC SUE

Everybody does this shit and tries to pass it off as a real flaw. Sure they say they are clumsy but then they turn out to be a master swordfighter or some shit when it actually matters. Most authors are so analpained about being bad at math that they make it seem like an advantage where their character gets +20 street smarts and common sense because they suck at algebra.

>> No.16511782

>>16511695
This sort of thing is the tone. Sues are unstable, extremely dangerous Child Gods, but that dose not mean that they are indestructible and you certainly can kill them.

>> No.16511786

This thread has potential. I look forward to see where it goes.

>> No.16511824

Should there be sues of the "Sanctioned Psycher" variety? Agents with such power trained specifically not to attack their own company, but to manipulate the environment to work better tactically?

>> No.16511859

Sues project a field that renders all fictional characters into drooling, lovesick, incompetents. They are very susceptible to suggestion from the sue, and can be made to do things that they would not normally do in canon. Characters that are less popular with fan girls are less susceptible. Agents are completely immune to the field because they come from the "Real World."

>> No.16511861

>>16511824
They'd be more dangerous than psykers, really.
How do we ensure they work for us?

>> No.16511882

>>16511824
You mean some sort of Editor able to lesson but not completely prevent the sues damage to the world?

>> No.16511899

>This entire thread
I smell a homebrew coming on /tg/.

>> No.16511927

>>16511715
>>16511740
No, no, I mean, into a setting where there is no canon. Where they are the main character(s). They're the hero(es). It's them.

>> No.16511929

>>16511882
Able to subtly change the "Words" to help the agents? I could see that working.

>> No.16511960

>>16511882
And repair it- fuck, that is an awesome name "The Editors".
>>16511861
They are still human. They may just volunteer, or may still wish for their family to be unharmed- or they may have even made mistakes and wish to correct it. Hell, some of them may even just plain not like the idea of fucking with reality, and use their powers to try to fix it, because order.

This idea is giving me Psychonauts vibes.

>> No.16511971 [DELETED] 

>mfw I was tempted to write a series of short stories about 'The Crafters'; basically the same idea; a race of extra-dimensional guardians who travel from Canon to Canon (often learning their tools, techs, magics, etc. for later use), deleting cancerous fanfictions and ensuring crossovers are mitigated with violence and diplomacy (often at the same time)
Good to know I'm not alone in my madness.
>>16511927
This is what my guys would call 'False Canons', and would be dealt with by bringing the most powerful weaponry from nearby canons to help kill 'em off. Monitoring this thread very hard.

>> No.16511978

>>16511927
Yes. The main character can be a Mary Sue.
See: Twilight

>> No.16511986

>>16511927
You can't just plop them in a blank slate and expect them to create a world. They're not creators. They're parasites.
They don't want to be the hero of their own story. They want to "has sasuke-samas babys desu-ne" or watch Arogorn and Legolace make out because it's "hawte."

>> No.16512011

>>16511971 here.
I'm thinking that these Sues have to have a source. it's very hard for these kinds of things to just spawn; there has to be a conscious force with an agenda making these things somewhere outside of the canons. Some sort of rival organization or malevolent sentience? I know with my version, I just called it/them the 'Grimdarkness' and the 'Rogue Crafters'. However, I'm sure we can come up with better names. 'Jealousy' comes to mind, as this is often where people get the ideas for these clusterfucks of fiction.

>> No.16512012

>>16511971

But wouldn't characters taking tech from each world be defecting from the company, and using an "Anti-hero" type set up, acting as wildcards that, though they may destroy the sues, will end up doing massive damage to the Setting afterall?

>> No.16512035

>>16511763
>>i'm retarded.
we noticed.

>> No.16512048

>>16511960
I don't like the idea of recruiting sues to the cause. I feel it humanizes them to much. If there are "Editors," they should be agents who studied sues in the field and learned how to do a few of their canon warping tricks, though nowhere near to the levels the sues themselves can.

>> No.16512060

>>16512012
There are some teams of Crafters who put the survival of the multiverse first and often set budding 'expanded universes' to waste gathering material (who you're talking about), but there are those who are more noble-bright, guarding the individual worlds, using their limited supply of original content and their own mettle to do the job.

"Arl... What have you become? These people didn't deserve this! Any of this!"
"They don't need to know why they were chosen. It's them or everybody this continuity is connected to."
"Is it right to kill for the greater good?"
"Is it right to spare them for some egotistical concept of right and wrong?"
"Would it matter what I said? Do you even care anymore?"
"...No."
>cue story-arc-ending struggle

>> No.16512071

>>16512012
Yeah, the agency's philosophy regarding canon should be somewhere along the lines of " bring only your wits, leave only footprints, take only memories."

>> No.16512080

>>16511978
>>16511986
So, it's more the personality, the want to meddle with the existing canon for a certain end, than the fact that they're just stacks of powers that make no sense to be on the same person, that makes them Mary Sues.

Though I'm sure the fact that, if they wanted to, they could do whatever they wanted and be better at it than anyone else that ever tried doesn't help at all, does it?

>> No.16512087

>>16512011
You could have it be an overarching, reality-warping self absorbed fangirl villain of some sort who is unaware that their fanfiction writing obsession is borking the multiverse.

>> No.16512105

Thursday Next books seem like good companion pieces.

>> No.16512107

Didn't we do the sue-pocalypse last year?

>> No.16512111

>>16512087
But then she too is really a Mary Sue creation of some deeper, unknown evil!

>> No.16512118

>>16512048
Sounds good to me, but where does the power of the sue come from?

Violent emotional outbursts affecting the environment? (Which would make 'baby sues' notoriously short lived, as they tend to either abuse their caretakers wrecklessly, killing them by strenuous use, or will use their power on the offensive, but with no focus, turn themselves into a grenade). In fact, all sues who try to manifest agression as a weapon should have a major chance to destroy themselves in the process- but those who can pull it off just managed to tap a force unwreckoned, untyped and non- manipulatable to other sues, as it becomes energy rather than part of the environment.

Sorry, rambling

>> No.16512137

>>16512071
Of course, this is the original intent. However, certain branches and rogue units have taken the philosophy of brutal pragmatism.

"Take what you must, lest the darkness destroy it. Kill what you must, lest the madmen consume them. Do what you must, for to fear the end of one world is to condone the end of them all."

>>16512087
Two ideas here.
1) This is all caused by an actual, RL person or group who is spewing pan-dimensional amounts of raw, polluted creative energy out there. The party will end the campaign confronting her on earth, battling her final, jealous creation on our planet.
2) A raw entity of uncreativity, jealous at the diversity and joy that the human collective produces, seeks to undo all of it by twisting it back on itself and breaking its back. The party ends the campaign travelling to a place beyond the space between worlds, destroying it and taking their place as the eternal guardians against another of its kind.

I like where this is going.

"Sir. The locals. They know what's going on. They haven't even seen us and they know somethings pouring in."
"Good. They know who to shoot at. Get the Progressors ready; we've got a story to edit."

>>16512111
>inb4 IT WAS ALL A DREAM on a scale that would make my players regret every second of the three years of weekly gameplay I would pour into this

>> No.16512141

>>16512107
This is not a sue-pocalypse. This is specialized teams going into stories and surgically removing sues from them. These ones can die.

>> No.16512154

>>16512141
Of course, sue-pocalypses do occur when Fanons (branches of Canons, relatively harmless) collide in the great superstructure of the multiverse. When crossovers do occur, they're going to have to send in armies of operators to neutralize the conflict (through arms or diplomacy), push the worlds back apart, and repair the damage so that 'everyone lives happily ever after'.

>> No.16512171

>>16512137
I like that. A raw font of corrupted creativity and jealous longing created from all fanfiction writers is causing disease in the story verse.

>> No.16512198

>>16512118
>>16512118
>where does the power of the sue come from?
How about
A) intense wish-fulfillment taps into some sort of dimension/nexus/sleeping god of incredible power that leaks into the related reality
or
B) some kind of trickster god is behind it all

Not very creative I'll admit though.

>>16512137
I like 1); I guess I like to think that in such a scenario that they are being created unaware by their creator simply because I can't tolerate the thought that a being would be aware of it's incredible powers and would squander it running around making intolerable character stereotypes.

>> No.16512207

I think that the agents should prize doing their jobs secretly. If you do the job right and the sue is removed, all memory of her and her actions fade from the world because she was never really part of it to begin with. The agents leave without anyone important knowing they were anyone but background characters. This policy is to prevent the agents themselves from becoming sues.

>> No.16512216

>>16512137
AND THIS SHALL BE THEIR BATTLEFIELD. AND THEIR WEAPONS SHALL BE SPIRAL.

>> No.16512229

>>16512171
>writefaggotry coming at ya!
"I shall not learn to 'tolerate' your planes and planets. I will never stop. My word is my own, and having it gives it every right to be spoken. The act of having an idea justifies enacting it. I say, those who dare to speak of 'creative integrity', 'originality', and other platitudes do not know what it is like to have been totally rejected for simply having suggested a new creation. Lo, and I shall subsume your weak flesh and metal and teach you the meaning of crafting... for all eternity!"
>>16512198
I'm leaning towards 1 as well. Makes it seem more fun if the party ends up landing in our world for the last few sessions, sneaking around with all this toon-punky tech from vidya and movies and such while learning of the true nature of the fabled 'Creation Core'.
>>16512207
I like this. You could run this as a cool variant of Delta Green if you do it right.
>>16512216
How did I not see this coming.

>> No.16512255

So, the Editors go around fighting sues who are damaging the multiverse just by existing, and rouge editors who carry contraband from from fiction to fiction to fight sues, and in the process are becoming a type of sue themselves?

>> No.16512281

>>16512207
I like the background characters idea. Like, Threndak Starcrusher and his band of henchmen Luke, Leia (who totally is in love with Starcrusher), and Han walked by a completely nondescript market stall on Tatooine. A few hours later, Threndak was tragically killed when his personal land-speeder exploded. The same merchants from before were curiously seen in the same area prior to the fatal accident.

>> No.16512310

>>16512255
Indeed. When the two meet, it gets tense.

"So, the heroes come at last. You're too late. The bomb's going to go off in 10 minutes. Take this whole fanon down."
"You used to be one too, you know. A hero. You don't have to do this."
"Shut the fuck up. You ain't a hero if you let your principles get in the way of the big picture. Kids like you are the reason the Grimdarkness is such a god-damn cancer. You won't kill it dead."
"You don't need to cut the cancer out of the body. Stop if from spreading-"
"I AM, DAMN IT. You think I don't care? I would have fed myself to it if I didn't. Just get out of here and go save somebody who's worth saving. Everybody on this plane is beyond it."
"I'm... I'm... I'm done. Done talking to you. You're beyond my sorrow or my pity anymore. I'm going to stop you from crushing another world, and if it comes down to killing you, so be it!"
>>16512281
I can see my players having competitions to see how many things they can insert themselves in. If they end up getting themselves killed or going Rogue because of it, so be it. More fun for me.

>> No.16512321

>>16512229
I never even considered that the agents would not just come from earth. Now I'm picturing the agency recruiting background characters who are about to die to fill it's ranks. Like some poor redshirts fall down a pit and are caught by a guy with a giant net and told a very shocking secret about the nature of their universe.

How do you get recruited to be an Editor?

>> No.16512354

>>16512321
Same way you get recruited by KronoTek in Darkest of Days (which inspired my Crafters thing, btw). Secondary or more civilian characters who are going to be killed or disappear in plot-related events are grabbed up by 'Jumpers', who take them to safety, and essentially draft them into the effort. Of course, while most are happy to help out the community at large, some want to just work on their own Canon, or even worse, begin going Rogue. This is something the Editors must watch for at every step of the training process, to be sure...

>> No.16512371

>>16512310
It also gives the PC's someone they can fight on their own terms. With a sue, if you walk up to slap he shit, it's going to result in a curb-stomp. With rouges though, you can have a fair fight with them.

>> No.16512386

>>16512310
"So Jillian Jackboot was shot in the head from nearly 70 paces while aboard the Black Pearl?"
"Aye, nobody saw who did it. All the men saw was a swirlin' of the waters and a flash below the surface a ways out after the lass dropped dead. Poor Jack is still beat up about it. He loved the girl."

>Coming summer 2012
>THE EDITORS

>> No.16512398

Before anyone tries to make a homebrew of this, ask Urch on sup/tg/'s IRC about his system. Runs off this thread.
>>16511661
Not what you're aiming for, but still grimdark as fuck.

>> No.16512402

What if a sue Kills a canon character? Like, kills Luke before the fight with Vader because shes the emperors super secret apprentice who no one has ever heard of? The canon would be proper fucked then.

>> No.16512419

>>16512402
Lazarus project style shenanigans? Or perhaps the bureau of editors uses some sort of time-bending to go back and repeat a mission until the canon is set straight, hence why we know the storylines as they are "intended" to happen in the "real world."

>> No.16512429

>>16512402
"OFFICER! OFFICER, LOOK!"
"What is it?"
"We're picking up a Critical Rewrite in SW-22! Looks cancerous!"
"Saints above... Alright. Send out mobilizations to all Editors within 4 Tales. Give them everything they need to know, and make sure they've got a Proofreader. There's going to be more than a bit of time-hopping for this one..."

They send in as many resources in as possible, remove the sue, and work literally backwards to patch the canon back together. Then, when they're ready, they just hit play, step back, and 'everyone lives happily ever after'.
>>16512419
Just about ^this, yeah.

>> No.16512475

>>16512402
One of the agents is elaborately altered to take their place so that the canon can go on uninterrupted.

Could be a mechanic to cycle out old characters and make room for new ones.

>> No.16512481

>>16512398
I don't really want it to be grimdark. At the end of the day I want the players to feel like they've fixed something wrong, that they've healed a sick reality. It's about the triumph of true creativity over banal wish fulfillment. Since they can't attack sues head on and can only use whats on hand in whatever setting they are in, they have to be creative with the ways they go about their job and work with the canon, instead of distorting it.

>> No.16512497

>>16512429
"Fire up the chronometron, team 4 experienced a critical failure on their lst assignment."
"Team 4, please report to the executive chambers for contract termination"
"Alright Team 7, go back and do it better."

>> No.16512524

Imagine the shenanigans if a sue entered the world of Hitman and was a better hitman than Agent 47, triggering a gigantic cycle of SPY vs SPY antics.

>> No.16512538 [DELETED] 

>>16512481
I'm running out of my alloted ^this for the thread. I want the players to have the high-fantasy-style sense of really being a force of good fighting wrongs with clearly evil justifications, rather than black-and-grey 'lesser of two evils' routines.
>>16512497
"The last team thought it'd be a good idea to sneak in a Storm Bolter."
"Oh, wow. Thought the strength of the spread of MLP-1923 could handle it, I guess."
"Retards. Stick to the hand crossbows like we planned."
>>16512524
This is just the tip of the iceberg for the comedy we could have in this system.
>mfw

>> No.16512557

>>16512524
Except for the fact that he would see her, forget he asexual, and fall instantly in love with her while she outgunned him at every occasion.

Of course, then the editors would have to deal with the sue and an infatuated 47. Don't like them odds.

>> No.16512601

>>16512557
"You know what? I'm calling for a Cancellation. Shit's broken. Old Fanon anyway."
"What?!?"
"Well... You know how I've said that half the time I say 'we're beyond Standard Operating Procedure', I'm wrong?"
"Yeah...?"
"Well, I've said it once before, and Iwas wrong the last time..."
"Sir, that's fallacious."
"Son, you don't need logic where we're standing in, now do we?"

>> No.16512604

>>16512557
>47, your focus is to eliminate operative Rayven Peterovnika Jewel III. What are you doing?
>I... I can't...

>> No.16512630

"Alright cadets, this will be your first assignment in the field. This dossier contains all relevant information. Now, based on this, what would be the most discreet way of removing her?"

>> No.16512650

Can I please get a cap of this thread? It is amazing in every way.

>> No.16512666

>>16512630
>Ork cadet raises hand, pushed back down by human next to him
"I... don't know sir."
"Correct answer. Personal experience tells me that whenever we suggest S.O.P., you can be certain the next case is going to throw it out the window in one way or another."
"Alright. Sir."
"Oh, and Grubbet?"
"Ya, Boss?"
"Whatever you would have said would have been the wrong answer. Just for future reference."

>>16512650
We could always go for an archive request on sup/tg/. Maybe get a sequel up tomorrow.

>> No.16512719

>>16512538
What if an agent had magpied some of the artifacts off of slain sues, and use some of the more stable ones in future missions, provided they fit the theme of the reality.

>> No.16512721

I once deconstructed my old furry characters in the style of the SCP Foundation to detox.

The Darkness ripoff (He had EVERYTHING by other names; didn't realize until well after I'd quit being a furry) got lobotomized and his powers reused to provide transportation for the Agency, and the Pikachu lightning mage was rendered quadrapalegic and used to power one of their Installations.

The idea behind the half-setting I built for them was that some alien (read: Out of Context Problem) civ was infecting various teenagers with "glands" that gave them stereotypical Mary Sue powers. The longer the gland remained implanted, the more powerful (and specialized) they became and the lower the chance of successful removal.

The Bureau implanted removed glands in their Agents in order to level the playing field.

It wasn't terribly good and I haven't touched it since I finished locking away my old characters.

>> No.16512728

>>16512630
"Sir, according to this the sue integrated herself into to separate times within the canon. Would it be exceptionable to inhume the target in only one of them?"

>> No.16512755

It would be cool if the agents always showed up in photos taken of the sue they are sent to eliminate. That being the only link they have to whatever world they enter.

"Here's Marigold Bellatrix on her date with Harry Potter at Hogsmeade. Oh that's odd, the barkeep in the background is looking right at them."

Moments later Marigold would be found tragically slain in an alley behind the pub they visited. It is assumed she was ambushed by Death Eaters.

>> No.16512772

>>16512719
So long as your not transporting one world items to another it should be okay. Of course, using a sues items could do things to your sanity.

>> No.16512794

>>16512719

Whacky hijinks ensue.

"you took WHAT, private?"
"uh... a storm bolter wielded by Blackfang Redtooth, the most successful space wolf scout to ever live, who fought alongside the Emperor during the Horus Heresy and stuck a fatal blow to Horus himself?"
"DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH PAPERWORK IS NEEDED TO GET PROPER CLEARANCE FOR THAT LEVEL OF SUE-TECH IN THIS COMPOUND?"

>> No.16512798

>>16512721
No no no, using sue stuff should be tantamount to using Warp Stuff. Nothing good should ever come of it.

>> No.16512825

>>16512772
sue-tech shouldn't do anything to sanity, unless you tried to take it apart and realized that there's no way this could ever work (an energy katana with no power source)

>> No.16512832

Removal of the Sue would have to retcon their existence- and that of the agents- from the fandom. I for one know that the lure of this game would be not only fighting uber-avatars, but it would also be interacting with the main characters of the setting. Sounds like a good bit of sci-fi time agent stuff... and now the gears are turning in my mind...

>> No.16512842

>>16512728

The question would be at what point in the timeline would she be able to cause the least amount of damage to the canon?

Who is more dangerous to the fabric of that reality, the Egyptian princess, or the star duelist who becomes a movie star?

>> No.16512862

>>16512666
This is a good idea, lets all request this.
this thread has received 1 of 4 requests needed to trigger archival.

>> No.16512865

Now this is an idea I can get behind. A shadow organization which jumps from reality to reality, trying to track down and kill Mary-Sues stealthily.
Organization could be like this:
-Agents: the ones that makes the bulk of the jumpers. Trained in various info-gathering skills, as well as covert ops and combat maneuvers.
-Field Operatives: The Agents that are usually sent into other realities, from the organization's reality. Usually is the jack-of-all-trades, from setting up a 'base' to killing a MS.
-Sleeper Operatives: Agents who are either a local recruited to the organization, or field operatives that stayed behind to monitor further changes to the reality in question. Sometimes they work like Delta Green, cut off from support most of the time and must make do with whatever's in the field.
-Editors: Senior Agents who have learned how to manipulate reality, although not as disastrous as MS does. They are expected to use their powers to minimize damage to the reality, although some have gone rogue and turned MS themselves.
-Overseers/Administrators: the higher-ups in the organization, they decide which team of agents to send to a reality, whether to recruit from a reality, and ruling stuff like that. They also keep a close eye on each other, because due to the power under their command, they could easily turn into MS in their own reality, which would be disastrous.

>> No.16512873

>>16512862
Speak of the devil. I just put it up on the sup/tg/ archives. Let's up-vote this and make sure we can head back to this idea that we all seem to love so much.

>> No.16512877

>>16512832
>Here's your new ship component, Mr. Solo
Thanks, pal.
>Oh and uhh... keep one hand under the table when you talk to Greedo if you know what I mean...
Uh, okay

>> No.16512895

rolled 33 = 33

>>16512825
Of course, it would still not fit into most settings.

Thus, using it would still draw anger from the others, and it would damage the setting.

>What would you run this in? GURPS? A Homebrew? Multiple?

>> No.16512898

>>16512798
But it's not sue-tech; it's two Sues rendered incapable of interaction and used as tools.

Oh well. Sure you won't reconsider?

>> No.16512904

>>16511763
Now, cannot actually do math at all is a flaw.

For example, their brain is impeded in such a way that they cannot even visualize what happens when you have 1 of the same object in each hand and put them together, you have 2 of the same object.

>> No.16512913

The world of literature is its own universe, made to mirror the wistful thoughs of the people of our universe.

Before sapience, the world was blank, a perpetual void of lonely emptiness. When the first storyteller, a caveman, scrawled a crude drawing on a wall and spoke of his hunt, a spark of light spread in a small corner of the darkness of this lonely realm, then it enveloped the entire void. In our world, we would call this a "big bang". With each telling of the tale, structure took form in the filled void. Each story was its own galaxy, and each planet was a variation or retelling of that story. This lonely void became a vibrant cosmos. The stories would shine and play forth whenever we read them.

>> No.16512918

>>16512895
That's tricky. GURPS might work, CoC reskinned might work, a homebrew might work... This warrants further thought.

>> No.16512929

>>16512832
I think that should be the difference between the Editors and the Sues. The Editors appreciate the world and the characters. Given the chance, they want to interact with the canon as it is. Speak to Han Solo as he is. See the rimfall of the Disc. Take in the sights of Water 7. Editors Appreciate, sues just use.

>> No.16512942

>>16512904
Well, do you really have two? What exactly is "one" in this sense - are we defining it as being the object? But that object is made up of probably order 10^23 particles. Really it'd be more correct to say we have a subset and we take its union with another subset in a well-defined abelian way.

>> No.16512951

But then, from the thoughts of people who had no experience with literature, came the disaster that would threaten to destroy this wondrous place, the Mary Sues. These people, who exist in our world, unknowingly created abominations that would cause chaos and destruction in the world of literature. These people's desires to be nigh invulnerable gods would manifest in their work, and threaten to tear the fabric of reality apart.

>> No.16512957

Regarding sue-tech (and sue-artifacts in that regard): I agree that they could be used by Agents, but only if they've done the paperwork and mandatory tests for it, and the artifact in question have been treated to lessen their corruption. So maybe there's a group in the organization that deals with 'sanitizing' what few artifacts the Agents bring back on their journeys. So yeah, an Agent may bring that energy katana he took from a 40k MS, but only if the setting he's headed towards allows similar technology (Star Wars, and he's stretching it).

>> No.16512967

>>16512918
http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm
For the more light hearted game this.

>> No.16512981

>>16512957
Of course, care must be taken to make sure that the fact that they are using such a powerful tool does not go straight to their head and put them on the road to going Rogue or becoming a Sue themselves. Thus, most operations that require SueTech are overseen by special Administrators who have had experience and have proven their loyalty to the concepts and practice of the Editors, so that they will be able to keep the Sue in check.

>> No.16512995

>>16512967
This actually looks like it'll do the job. It'll allow for characters from all over fiction to band together with one system well. I guess Anonymous delivers after all.

>> No.16513034

What do we do with Canon Sues?

Characters that were created by the author(or one of the writers in the case of a TV show) that fit all the definitions of being a Sue with the exception that they aren't a fan creation?

Characters who are official, but are the creator's very own Special Snowflake character?

>> No.16513039

>>16512981
Yep, that's the gist of it. That's why the Agent in question must fill out paperwork and do the mandatory tests (mental, physical, etc) to see if they are fit or not for a particular piece of SueTech.

Also, what about inter-reality connections? Will the Organization initiate contact with similar-thinking organizations/groups in other realities? Maybe even ally with them, for example?
Maybe the Time Cops have been informed, and is a valuable ally to the Organization? In exchange to the Time Cops' monitoring, the Organization gives them reverse-engineered SueTech?

>> No.16513053

>>16512995

Cognition Dictates.

Feel free to fill in the rest of this.

>> No.16513055

>>16512929
This is it exactly. The GM is going to have to be damn GOOD though.

>> No.16513083

>>16513034
Technically speaking, their's no such thing as a "canon sue", that's just a byproduct of newbies using the word too broadly.
Annoying overpowered self inserts are the right and privilege of every mediocre author.

>> No.16513086

>>16513034
All Canon is sacred. Even if Belle Swan is usurped by a sue, it is the sworn duty of the editors to set reality right.

>> No.16513127

>>16513039
No, everyone forgets them as soon as they leave. Editors could temporarily ally with fiction agencys, but a sues field would effect them as it would any fictional character.

>> No.16513147

>>16511661
This thread has.... inspired me.

If I ran a game or a quest off of this would anyone be interested?

>> No.16513186

>>16513147
Oh hell yes. A chance to prove that my Crafters idea wasn't just me being completely off the trolley. It would be an honor.

>> No.16513196

>>16513147
Oh, terribly. You'll probably have to go out and read some terrible fanfiction though.

>> No.16513198

>>16513083
>Annoying overpowered self inserts are the right and privilege of every mediocre author.

That seems almost paradoxical considering that our calling is to eliminate annoying overpowered self inserts.

What if some of these official Special Snowflake creations are nothing more than poorly disguised sues? Created by fans who have somehow infiltrated the official creative staff behind the universe in question?

>> No.16513250

>>16513198
Then they are still officially part of canon and agents can't touch them. If the character is truly terrible then perhaps a real editor will do their job for them.

>> No.16513278

>>16512865
Adding on;

Proofreaders: People of specialized type, sometimes Editors, sometimes Agents, it is less a job as much as a medal. If you claim you are a fan of a series, book, or that you have memorized it's originality, you have a chance to be declared a proofreader, who will direct Editors and Agents, instructing them on what the setting allows, what part of the setting is broken, and how to fix it- and if the Sue is clever enough not to be obvious, you are the one to fish them out. Disabled Agents with no other abilities may become Proofreaders as a job, if they wish to still work for the Agency, in which they will memorize tomes to keep the settings in line, but otherwise will be discharged to civilian life.

>> No.16513283

rolled 68 = 68

>>16511432

There was a thread on /tg/ a while back that imagined a world where Mary Sues take over and warp everyone around them to worship them forever.

One idea that developed later in the thread was that the people who fought back against them were in danger of being corrupted into a Sue themselves.

Give me a second and I'll see if I can dig up the thread from the archives.

>> No.16513286

>>16513250
>>16513198
If a character in a reality is too Mary Sue, but is also part of the Canon, then the organization sends an Agent to the reality where the writer resides, and try to either edit out the character from the work, or flunk the publication hard.
These kinds of Agents are sometimes called the Critics.

>> No.16513297

>>16513278
I love these different classes of operative. But how did the agency come to be? Who founded the Editors?

>> No.16513329

There's a difference between a game-changing author avatar and a character inserted to be the author.

>> No.16513361

>>16513297
Well it first came into existence when a few posters put up a thread on /tg/ about Mary-Sues, and how to kill them.
Look around. Write more. We are the founders of the organization.

>> No.16513415

>>16513297

It started with the starwars chirstmas special....


Nah, fucking around now.
It was begun under the Copyright association, who's goal was to protect artist's ideas. It was truly founded by Pope Alexander VI , in 1501, claiming that unlicensed book printing must be controlled, though it acted more as an information inquisiton, their first notable change to books being the Index Expurgatorius, or List of Prohibited Books, meant to protect people from their own, quite wild imagination. It's influence spread beyond the Catholic Church, of course, and now is only truly related to the pope at the roots.

Copyright is weaponised by the Editors, in order to keep sues from becoming majorly widespread- the more known a sue becomes, the more likely it is to thrive. This is why the sues Bella Swan, and the somewhat lesser known Sonichu, still exist to these days.
(Thats as far as I got )

>> No.16513417

>>16513286
I don't like it. Messing with canon is what the sues and the rouges do, not the editors. No matter how badly an Editor wants to change canon he should always reign that feeling in because it's not his place. It's the Authors.

Though that gives me an Idea for a third faction who goes around changing stories "for the better." Things like saving Romeo and Juliet or getting Harry to hook up with Hermione instead of Ginny. Or even something sympathetic like trying to prevent "One More Day."

The Fixers.

>> No.16513471

>>16513297
The origins of the Editors can be traced back almost as far as the existence of Mary Sues.

There have always been those who have looked down on people who would alter beloved realities to fit their own selfish desires.

Since the earliest days of fan publications, these dedicated fans, obsessed with maintaining all that is official and right in their favorite universes have fought against self insert characters who bend the reality of that universe around them.

Eventually these fans, obsessed with trying to alter the official canon as little as possible would form the organization that would later become The Editors.

>> No.16513485

>>16513417
now we're talking! These Fixers, even though they're not Mary Sue themselves, tend to disrupt a reality. Sometimes, the Fixers would cooperate with the Organization to dispatch a Mary Sue, but most of the time, the two are clashing.

>> No.16513490

>>16513415
Great. Now I feel /important/.

>>16513361
So that's the thing- the Editors have the tech necessary to jump from reality to fiction. On the Meta- Earth, present day- attempting to deal with the Sues creators will lead to death, and the Editors don't have that power. But letting Sues run rampart within leads to the buildup of overflow power that can cause cataclysmic events on Meta.

The Editor HQ exists outside of the spheres of influence, connected to Meta as a hub for the jumps. Recruited fiction-makers from Meta are suited up to engage Sues on their own turf, and some fields of engagement, such as the Twilight disaster, were outright debacles, with multiple teams defeated in open combat.

Essentially, each field has Suepower in it, but fighting the Sues within can decrease the potential for overflow.

Hm.

>> No.16513512

>>16513485

A prime example of a non-potential peaceful "sue" fandom would be the Star Wars Expanded Universe. A sprawling beast of fan-generated material serves as a friendly association with the Editors...

wait no, that wouldn't fucking work, they erase themselves out of everything. I'm too tired for this.

>> No.16513572

>>16513512
Nah, SWEU is more like a war-torn wasteland to the pristine wildlife preserve that is SW. It's suffered so much under Sues, and some of the Sues' power got seeped into Canon. For the Editors, this place is a danger level 4, where constant retcon storms happen.

>> No.16513589

>>16513485
"You have to let me through! Damn it, you watched this show! You know whats going to happen! HE'S GOING TO MAKE HER KILL THE JAPANESE!"

"I Know that! But it can't be helped. It's a plot point."

"It's a stupid plot point! It's nothing but contrived tragedy! Just let me give them a happy ending."

"NO! Contrived or not, this is a tragedy I am sworn to protect!"

>> No.16513632

>>16513589
Can fixers "Add" to the story? Or do they simply try to fix what is there?

Remember Serenity? How many Fixers do you think would be up there trying to really explain how the captain came back from the dead?

>> No.16513701

>>16513632
Maybe, if need be. Their version of people with reality-bending powers can make stuff happen that would lead to a good end/good story. Maybe one would disguise himself as elven archer #3278 that shot the fatal 'normal' arrow at Balrog, saving Gandalf. Maybe a team of Fixers would 'will' the ADFX-01's laser to miss the critical part of Crow's F-16 fighter jet, thus allowing him to eject and survive.

>> No.16513740

>>16513701
Would this possibly mean that the Fixers have very little group cohesion, often in internal strife for what SHOULD be left in, and what shouldn't? I, for some reason, imagine that fixers are likely to chance to full Sue, if they feel that it is neccisary to 'fix it'. Granted, they may be good enough to off themselves after they fix it, and just not fuck with it anymore, but after a taste of power? Who does want to let it go

>> No.16513754

>>16513632
I envision the Fixer MO Is to try and "fix" the story from within it. Maybe some can warp reality slightly like Editors. They're biggest advantage is that they have seen how the story plays out normally and will use that information to their advantage. Sues will derail a story, and Editors might not know enough about the world to see that something is off if they don't have a proofreader on hand. Fixxer usually know very much about the reality they infiltrate and if they have a good handle on the characters then they can manipulate them from the background to achieve the ending they desire. To achieve this, they may bring contraband into the story.

I imagine that they are very hard to root out if they want to stay hidden and the only time the story will seem in danger to an Editor would be when the Fixers Machinations start to take effect.

In this regard, they would be an even more dangerous opponent then the average sue. After all, most sues don't think.

>> No.16513786

>>16513740
Yes, I imagine that they would be less a group and more of a loose collection of individuals.

>> No.16513815

>>16513786
I think they work in something like cells, but with less cohesion between cells. So there may be the ones trying to save character X in a reality, and then there's another that's trying to save character Y from the same reality. And the two may clash, because character X and character Y were supposed to kill each other in battle.

>> No.16513822

So have we entered the Get Shit Done phase yet? Because the untapped epic in here is making me want to get on with it.

>> No.16513824

>>16513740
I think the difference between a fixer and a sue would be that, like editors, they appreciate the world and characters, but wish to improve the story itself. Yes, a fixer has the potential to go full Sue, but they would not use that power to become the center of the story. Instead, they would probably just use it to push the story along to it's own ends. But I imagine that they would only Sue out to effect a drastic change in the plot. After all, make to many waves and they bring the Editors snooping around.

A Fixer Sue would be a terrifying opponent to face. All the power of a sue and all the intellect of an editor.

>> No.16513831

>>16513754
>>16513786
Perhaps Proofreaders are the most likely to fall to becoming Fixers, in their favorite setting, so thus Proofreaders often stay in base while the rest explore? This is a tad unfair, but at the same time, the risk of damaging a tale is too great.

>> No.16513848

How would the editors respond to a clash between the SWEU and the SWEEU? Seeing as how the latter was designed to go after the former.

>> No.16513860

>>16513417
the consepept of a third faction (The Fixers who try and make things for the better) opened out dozens of doors.

The Deleters.
Those who think all fiction is harmful and must be destroyed.

The Censors.
Those who thing certain parts of cannons and specific cannons corrupt those who know of them.

The Die Hards.
Those fans that think the author has gone nuts and try to stear the cannon in a new of better direction.

The Freadom Brigade. <sic>
An organized group like The Editors but believe the realm of fiction is foe everyone and that Mary Suing is every ones right.

>> No.16513887

But are Sues truly the only enemy editors face?

What of Shippers, the sudden manifestation of horrors not in the form of a single character, but of the odd attraction between two story characters that defies the Canon?

What of the bleeding holes in the multiverse that produce Crossovers? They've been discussed a bit already, but are universal catastrophes also in the Editor's bag of problems to solve, or just assassination?

What of psuedo-official malignancies, like sudden cancellations, massive overextensions beyond jumped shark territory, or retcons and remakes? Do Editors plant the seal of approval on a product that is remade even after the author of the sacred Canon has expired, or do they seek the eradication of the younger-and-edgier filth that seeks to befoul the sacred text? Or are their dissenting views, even among the Editors, of the right to a particular concept and the policy they should hold?

>> No.16513916

>>16513860
I think the Censors and the Die Hards both fall under the Fixer faction.

Though I was toying with the idea of a faction who finds all fiction despicable and wants it destroyed. I was going to call them the Firemen after Fahrenheit 451.

>> No.16513930

>>16513887
>Do Editors plant the seal of approval on a product that is remade even after the author of the sacred Canon has expired, or do they seek the eradication of the younger-and-edgier filth that seeks to befoul the sacred text? Or are their dissenting views, even among the Editors, of the right to a particular concept and the policy they should hold?

"Word of God" guide us. "Word of God" teach us. "Word of God" protect us. In your light we thrive. In your mercy we are sheltered. In your wisdom we are humbled. We live only to serve. Our lives are yours.

>> No.16513953

Dunno if this is still relevant at all, but here's my definition of a 'Sue.

As stated before, I think it's a lot more a matter of personality than it is of OP. In fiction there are characters everywhere that are the best at what they do. Why do we pay attention to protagonists? Because they're extraordinary. No one wants to read about how Joe closed the Smith account and went home to watch True Blood with his girlfriend and then cuddled all night because she was on her period, unless it's written in such a way to convey a message about humanity.

Almost every character that is paid any mind is special in some way; Sam Fischer is the best spy in his league, Michael Westen was burned for a reason, Achilles is the son of a god and the greatest warrior ever, etc. Regular characters are always special if we're to pay attention to them.

Sues on the other hand are special, but they're sanctimonious pricks about it. Absolutely flawless. An inhuman machine that can only be hated.

>> No.16513958

>>16513887
I think it was already established that editors handle crossovers by sealing the breach and packing everyone back to their own world. It's the only time they are encouraged to directly interfere with canon characters during a mission.

When a series is canceled that's it. That Metaverce dose not move forward anymore. It just drops of. Sucks, but it happens.

I like the Idea of Editors having different opinions about remakes.

As for Shipping, that sounds like Sue effects. A sue hiding in the background. Watching. Perhaps being aided by fixers.

>> No.16513980

rolled 25 = 25

Anyone here heard of the Thursday Next series of books by Jasper Fforde?

The main character joins a group called Jurisfiction, which is tasked with a lot of what you all describe here: basically making sure that fictional stories are preserved according to their author's wishes.

It's a great series, I recommend reading them, and you can take a lot of ideas from it to use for a setting like this.

>> No.16513986

>>16513953
Being special or sanctimonious dose not make one a sue. If so, The Doctor would be dead by now. What identifies a sue is the effect they have on other characters. If the person is perfect and reduces all the other characters to drooling retard begging to be in their presence, it's a sue.

Also, the creator of the world dose not create the kind of Sue Editors hunt. The sue comes from outside the creators original design, and inserts itself.

>> No.16513993

>>16513916
Censors and DieHards and Fixers all seem similar to editors an may classify them all under the general term "Fixers."

But motivation wise are very difrent. Cencors have the grater good in there mind and want to slamp out creativity. Die Hard just want to stamp out new stuff like reboots or non author works that have been cannonised. No actual changing.

So wile there definably close they would never stand to be grouped together.

They also have very different methods and ideals if you approach a Die Hard like a Fixer you may get the DH yourself and the whole cannon blown up.

>> No.16514094

Alright Fixers, prepare for an emergency drop into the continuum code-named 'ASOIAF'.

We have scattered reports of a unknown targaryen girl showing up at the wall, quickly becoming involved with Jon Snow. Her purple dragon mount, Rhlorr-blessed katana and the ease with which she defended the Fist of the First Men all point to Sue Involvement.

Meanwhile, it appears that Robb Stark has been heeding the advice of a previously little known bannerman, urging him not to waste his time on frivolities such as weddings. We fear fixer involvement.

Go to work.

>> No.16514108

I've been reading this thread for the past hour and a half, and I'm liking what I'm seeing. i do have a question however.

The first mention of the fixers strikes me as perhaps being related to "shippers". They don't necessarily insert themselves or (usually) mess with the character's true personalities, but their influence would still create deviations from the norm of canon to what they consider "a better story direction".

would it be fair to lump shippers in under a sect of the fixers?

>> No.16514121

>>16513887
>What of Shippers, the sudden manifestation of horrors not in the form of a single character, but of the odd attraction between two story characters that defies the Canon?

The team straps up for a reverse-cupid mission, with the careful application of memory-altering technology--but only once the bond between the shipper and the plane of existence is severed.

>> No.16514142

>>16514108
Probably. The first example of a Fixer has shipping as a motive in it.

Remember Fixers are trying to affect change that THEY THINK will help the story. Shipping falls under that.

>> No.16514215

>>16513986
The Doctor ain't perfect. A Mary Sue Doctor would _always_ know what to do, and would have all the conflicts of the universe wrapped up nicely in his own little bowtie. Thing is, that's not how the show works...

>> No.16514234

"All right mew meat, this ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue ) is your enemy. This is the enemy of all Fiction. I expect each and every one of you to know this field guide by heart! Knowing the different strains of this disease could save your life, and lives of every man on your team."

>> No.16514276

>>16514215
Exactly, he had flaws and foibles. Just because he's a Super special last of his kind genius alien with a time machine and great taste in hats doesn't matter because he is a deep character. A real Character.

But I swear, sometimes during 10's run I had my doubts.

>> No.16514327

>>16514094
I know nothing about A Song of Ice and Fire, but how would a banner man work his way into a nobles confidence? Fixers don't have sue power.

>> No.16514338

>>16513824

It really should be noted, back before TV tropes when to shit, there was a whole sub-divide called Fixer Sues.

>> No.16514427

>>16513980
I've read this book, and I also recommend it! There are actually many similarities between this and the Shira Calpurnia series, which /tg/ if fond of.

Great books.

>> No.16514615

What do Editors do about Campers?
Extra characters that insert themselves... and that's it. Besides some extra bits in the canon where the Camper is intersecting with one or two of the characters, nothing is done to change the canon timeline.

And what about the Expansionists (who explore that which was not exppounded in Canon), the Rationalists(who dive into a universe and wrestle the narrative laws into something resembling logical order) and the Roleplayers(who explore a universe, but with limited powers)? They all do nothing to the timeline.

>> No.16515430

Why wouldn't Sues be a sort of corrupted Fixer from the start? That is, the Fixer goes into the story and thinks that they should fix it by taking over.

I have an idea that might help clear up how to identify Mary Sues from "canon" sues, as well as explaining the creation of Sues. The original universe itself and the characters within all resonate with a certain frequency, which is what is known as "Canon", and is granted when their Creator(s) give life to them. Anything that the creators make and add to the universe, be it a new character being introduced or tools that a side character uses, will also resonate with "Canon".

>> No.16515437

>>16515430
The reason that Sues are able to affect character personalities and ignore the universe's physics as they do is because their "Meta" frequencies disrupt Canon. Some Fixers are content to create hypothetical scenarios and see them play out, while others attempt to integrate themselves directly into the main cast (a process called "Self Insertion").

The degrees of Self Insertion varies, as >>16514615 shows. Some Self Inserts merely want to pal around with the main cast as the story progresses, some want to explore the universe, and others want to take over the story (Sues). By identifying what frequencies are not Canonical, The Editors are able to track down budding Sues with relative ease.

>> No.16515453

>>16515437
There is also a third frequency that is close in resonation to Canon, referred to as "Fanon". Fanon is the result of unchecked Fixer activity that grows to the point that it begins to share resonation with Canon, sometimes becoming indistinguishable from each other, and other times creating a parallel universe that becomes naught but a playground for Fixers. The real task of The Editors is to prevent this growth and to maintain the differences between Fanon and Canon, lest the former become accepted by the Creators as the latter.
Feel free to expand on this or flip me off. I need sleep, so I won't be able to respond immediately. Hopefully, this thread is still up when I awaken.

>> No.16515586

One thing the Fixers and Editors could clash over is when a canon character shows Sue-like qualities which leads to philosophical debates on the subjects.
Like for example... Terry Long.
Would any Editor really go out of their way to protect him?

>> No.16515630

Perhaps a Fixer splinter faction could be a 'purger'?
Like someone who just hates a work so much he/she goes out of their way to destroy it?
Like murdering the cast of Twilight, or Left Behind, etc.

In a way, they'd be even harder to deal with than Sues. Because literally all they want is to watch the world burn.

>> No.16516193

>>16515430
I always thought of Sues as a sort of disease that stories get. They may look and act human, but they are definitely not. They are way to powerful for that.And they don't act human. A human coming in from the outside would know that it is part of a story, but a Sue thinks that the plot is where they belong. A fixer would never confuse themselves with a character from a story.

Also, if Sues came from Fixers that would make all fixers kill on site, and a really don't want that. I like them a a sort of morally grey faction that could tempt Editors over to their side not because of the power they'll receive, but because their philosophy is attractive.

>> No.16516222

>>16511432
>>16511432

Reminds me of Witch hunter robin anime..... I now know what anime series to get again..... Ty

>> No.16516227

>>16514615
I think this is less other factions, and more what Editors do in their time off.

>> No.16516247

If I know Players, and I know Players, they'll find no less than 3 ways to break any given setting, even if they stick to the rails.
Here are some brief options:
#1: Players kill the Sue in one session after exploring approximately 3% of the world.
#2: Players side with the Sue.
#3: Players openly reveal themselves, and rally the forces of the world to exile the Sue
#4: Players openly reveal themselves, and convince the world to ally with the Sue
#5: Players openly reveal themselves, try to seduce/bar fight with the major characters, and ignore the Sue
#6: Players defeat the Sue, and declare themselves the new Sues of the world.
#7: Players get curbstomped by the Sue and die
#8: Players are fucking morons and require constant babysitting to prevent their reveal and/or curbstomp.
#9: Players stealthily try to raise the militarisation or tech level of the world, rather than try to combat the Sue directly.
#10: Players fanboy/fangirl over the fictional world, and the session devolves into fanboy arguing and/or fetish shit. At this point, No players, You are the Sue.

And that's just GENERAL options.
You put your players in Atlantica (Little Mermaid)? Expect the spetznas to roll by in a nuclear sub within 2 sessions.
Your players land in Star Trek? "Replicator, make an UNRESTRICTED AND BETTER REPLICATOR. New Replicator, make 1000 Captain Kirks and 1000 Captain Picards".
Any given setting can and will be fucked by sufficiently intelligent, creative, and mischievous players.

>> No.16516285

Wouldn't the Fixers have to blend into the world that they enter in order to prevent themselves from coming the problem?
What is the effect if they fail? What will happen if the Mary Sue ends up having its way and screwing over the plot?

>> No.16516288

>>16516247
But that's what they should be trying to prevent. Your not supposed to fuck the setting unless your playing as rouges. Fucking the setting could tear open breaches in the mutiverse. Do you know what happens to a universe that falls completely into a plothole? Remember the Star Wars Sequels? No, not the prequels, the Sequels. Episode 7,8,and 9.

Now you know why we don't fuck with reality.

>> No.16516305

>>16511386
To the OP I know exactly what series you were talking about.

http://indiemadnesse.sandwich.net/extract/extract.html

Thank me later.

>provision. cturyh

Captcha, stop trying to toss cthulhu into everything -_-

>> No.16516321

>>16516285
You got your terms mixed up. Editors go in and remove threats to canon, Fixers go in to change the story and make it "better."

And yes, editors attempt to blend with the setting they enter, don't bring anything in except their clothes, and don't take anything out but sue stuff.

The thing with a Mary sue is that it has already screwed up the plot just by existing. The Editors job is not to prevent Sue damage, but to repair it.

>> No.16516358

>>16516193
It's not that they have confused themselves as characters in the story, it's that they feel it is better now that they are the central focus in it.

Think about it: they can drastically affect character personalities to suit their whims; they know what is coming up in the story and can thus prepare ahead of time; they are exempt from the world's physics, making them capable of becoming gods amongst mortals.

It is an alluring and intoxicating thing, which anyone is possible of. Any time you read/watch a story and think to yourself 'If that were me, it'd be different', then congratulations - you just contemplated Self Insertion.

>> No.16516374

>>16513980
She even gets tried by Jurisfiction for changing the ending of Jane Eyre; originally Jane went with St.John and died along side him in India.

>> No.16516375

>>http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13722924/

Last surge of Sue ideas that i witnessed.

In case there's anything useful in there.

>> No.16516403

>>16515453
Would the Touhou series be examples of Fanon that became just as believed as Canon? I know ZUN did something or another with Cirno that was a reference to Fanon, and he collaborates with fan-groups all the time to make a new game that would otherwise just be a fan-made game.

>> No.16516436

>>16511971 here
>go to bed
>leave thread open
>wake up
>still here
Fuck. Yes. This is amazing. More development over the 8 hours I was gone. I'm so proud of you chaps sometimes. Everything you've thought up so far makes sense, the class/job/faction count has gone up nicely, and the overall setting is getting grander and deeper.

>> No.16516476

>>16516403
Nah, the Touhou series is much like the WH40K series: by it's nature it is discordant. Amusingly enough, Editors often deal with the more troublesome Mary Sues and Fixers by ripping open an inter-universal portal to a universe like one of these, where for all of their powers the nature of the 'verse is such that they w'll end up dead or assimilated in short order. Still, no matter how carefully done, tearing the local causality a new one is dangerous both to the Canon and to the agents and Editors on field.

>> No.16516497

>>16516476
to expand: many of these "overpowered" settings are useful in this sense. You know all the rage we have over the Culture? They prove themselves astoundingly, if unwittingly, useful in this sense.

>> No.16516546

>>16516476
>>16516497
If unorthodox, this video is an unorthadox example of a Fixer retroactively altering some of the laws of the Canon to destroy a Mary Sue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkBlf4ZdyeA

>> No.16516622

Right. So here's what I've worked out.

There are many Authors that write stories. Some good, most bad, often with bad storytelling elements. Many with wish fulfilment author characters.
These establish "Canon" of a setting. It's not always good, it's not always sane, it's not always happy and it's usually uncomfortable to anyone with taste. But it exists.

The players' organisation is dedicated to maintaining Canon - even in stories they deem unimportant, stories they don't like, or stories that they honestly find annoying and retarded.
This is because Sues are a greater enemy than bad authors, if only because even bad authors have at least SOME creativity.
Being picky about which stories to save is the first step on the road to ruin - you think you're better than some authors, or that some stories are beneath you. While this may be true, this hubris is a step on the road, that goes through being Careless about Canon, and ends at Sue.
You do not walk down that road.

Various factions exist to edit Canon. From those that provide explanations, to those who expand upon it, to those that correct bad storytelling devices used by the original author, to those who eliminate Author sues, to those who to those who fix mistakes the author has made in the plot, to those who insert themselves in the plot, to those who insert themselves at the very center of the plot and possess immense power, to childlike retard-gods who bend the plot around them in ways that makes any sane person's mind say "What the fuck".
The last is the worst, but they all mess with canon. They are all enemies.
>continued

>> No.16516627

>>16516622
>continued

Often times, an agent may question why they defend bad stories. Or why some of the milder alterations to Canon are to be demonised as harshly as the retard-gods. A fan may write a side-story that ends up being better written than the main story itself, and which only affects the main plot by giving side characters memories.
The agent kills the fan and undoes his entire story, and perhaps wonders whether he's making the right decision.
But, by doing this, he becomes more tolerant. Perhaps to replacing instances where the original Author has clearly done something wrong, or perhaps to fan works that alter Canon much more directly.
Many of these rogue agents direct their time and attention to hunting down "Author sues" and destroying any story they deem as shitty. Being adept at hunting sues and untangling stories, they tend to be good at it.
Eventually, they mingle with main characters. What harm could come of just -talking- with the main cast? But, drunk on power, they get used to this talking, and insert themselves... into the plot.
From there lies depravity. The agent's own sense of storytelling and logic, the agent's sexual fetishes and wish-fulfillment fantasies, and perhaps just the abuse of power for the sake of the abuse of power.

That is why no Fanon or 'Fixing' can be tolerated.
That is why all Canon must be protected.
That is what the PCs fight for.

>> No.16516630

>>16515453 here
>>16516403
Actually, I was thinking of Touhou when I wrote that part. It's probably the largest Fanon in existence.
>>16516476
You seem to have opened up a whole new can of worms. What do Editors do about roleplaying worlds that are made for Self Insertion?
I imagine that WH40K, DnD, and the like all have a certain framework, that is, the basis upon which the universe is different from others. Things such as backstory, gods, locations, and game mechanics.
However, they then allow people to create a world within the universe based upon that framework, and then more people to muck about in the other person's world.
So what do the Editors do in that situation? Do they /only/ stop Fixers who try to change the backstory? Do they allow slight changes in the framework for homebrew settings? Do they go after That Guys who try to metagame?

>> No.16516678

>>16516627
>The agent kills the fan and undoes his entire story
Nope. Rather it's just:
>The agent undoes his entire story
You see, out of everyone who writes fanfiction and such, most don't really 'do' anything in the parallel world that is the Living Dream. However, there are a large number who do influence this existence directly, and it is by the sublimation of their ideas into ink on paper or type on the screen and save it, that the change is directly effected.

The duty of the Agents is to stop this before this growth becomes too much, and begins to drain the Dream of it's life blood, Creativity. These stories must be fought from within, to undo the damage the ordinary teenage author has unwittingly inflicted. The story will still exist, but it's spirit is destroyed by the Organization, allowing them to mop up the taint and undo the damage with temporal maintenance.

>> No.16517371

Jesus, you guys are still at it? That's slightly insane.

So, to recap, we have the-
Editors, the PC-allied organization devoted to keeping the peace and the canon in Meta
Fixers, those Meta inserted characters that change subtle bits of the plot
and Sues, unallied characters that are unto gods.

The Fixers could be the opposing force to the Editor team, if they were organized and sending out in-canon groups to engage them. The Sues would be an entirely different matter, because both groups would want to take her out before the setting goes down with her. The Editors would live to extract the non-canon characters from the Fandom, because Canon seeks it's own level and will restore itself when it is not under outside influence.

>>16516247
As such, situations like this could occur, and would only be resolved once the responsible party leaves- that technological advance is written off in history, that charismatic leader that mysteriously disappeared is completely forgotten about by the next election period, and by the time Continuity is restored, nothing is different.

Perhaps the creation of the Editor society is Meta's discovery of a Fandom Machine, and the subsequent creation of a company devoted to sending tourists to locations that are identical to each Fandom. Sues and Fixers suddenly have the ability to alter the reality of the Fandom and the Editors must form after the fact to react to them and "write them out". As such, some Fandoms- the Star Wars universe, Transformers galaxy, and certain subsets of Anime- are completely written off the list for Fandom Machine tourists to visit, being hives of Sue-likely Fixer groups.

Like I said before though. The GM is going to have to know his shit, man.

>> No.16518749

>>16516358
The thing is that Fixers can not make a character behave out of character and they are not immune to the laws of the world. That's just a straight Sue. A Fixers power comes from the fact that they are intimately familiar with the setting and characters and can use this information to manipulate the story. They could use direct intervention, but only as a last resort. preferring to work from the background so the Editors don't catch what they are doing until it's to late.

>> No.16521047

So! Sues that are unto gods threaten the fabric of fiction itself. Fixers intend to bend these threads the way they wish to see the story go. And us? Woe betide those who would enter our the land of fiction and stories, to find and twist these tales of fate, and attempt to make it their own.

Welcome, Editors. We've got a job to do.

I'm in the process of constructing the groundwork for a game. If you're interested in GMing or playing in it, shoot me a message at my email and we'll figure something out, prolly latenight IRC.

Someone mentioned GURPS, but the best style might be a general homebrew, possibly d10 with simple combat, to be an accessible platform for the GMs. Ideas?

>> No.16521069

>>16521047
...what the fuck happened to my picture 4chan, I don't even have that on my computer

>> No.16521973

Forgive me, /tg/ for I have sinned.

Years ago I used to roleplay as a Super Saiyan who became a Planeswalker.
The Maryest Sue of all.

>> No.16522660

Is this archived yet?

>> No.16523382

Eric Fowl stepped into the interrogation room and sat down across from the boy. Well, he called him a boy, but the truth was that he was only a little younger than Eric himself. He was looking down at the table in front of him, betraying no emotion. He had been like that ever since his capture, seemingly determined to make this as difficult as possible.

Eric cleared his throat.
No reaction.
Well, no harm in making sure.

"Hello sir, my name is Fowl. Eric Fowl. May I have your name?"
Still no reaction.

"It's okay, I can do enough talking for the both of us. Do you know what I am? I'm a proofreader. It's a very special job here at the agency. What it means is, I am the ultimate authority on a particular fiction universe. It's my job to know when a story starts to go awry, or something impossible is happening in the world.I then advise the Editors we send in on where the divergence occurs and what kind of changes are being made so that they can correct the problem. The best of us, not me, I'm nowhere near that good, but the very best of us can actually feel when a story is going off the rails. Like a sixth sense. Or seventh or eighth depending on how many you have. I once killed a Sue that had 27. That one was a bitch and and half, let me tell you. Why would you even need that many? What exactly are you detecting that so important, you know?" He contemplated this for a moment. "Well, I guess it would be me, wouldn't it?"

Eric realized that he was now standing and gesturing with his hands. Embarrassed, he sat back down.

"Sorry, I get excited easily. The point is, I'm the reason we caught you."

Eric saw the kids muscles tense. He had gotten through.
They sat there in silence for a few minutes, then the kid let out a single, quite question.
"...Why?"

Eric tilted his head, quizzically. "Why what?"

>> No.16523416

>>16521069
I thought it worked rather well, anyway

>> No.16523664

Okay, try this.
The canon of a story will defend itself naturally. Have you ever noticed that in a lot of Mary-Sue fiction, the biggest bad guy around will immediately pick a fight with the Sue for no good reason? Think Bella Swan and Rose Cullen, Eragon and the shade whose name I can't remember. I think it was Urza or something similar.
These natural Sue-killers are devastatingly powerful and are good for killing Stage 3 or lower Sues. In many cases, bad fanfic writers use these to demonstrate the power of the Sue, but the real reason is that the plot rejects invasion by the Sue. The problem is, if the Sue escapes somehow (Elves roll in and save Eragon, Rosaline suddenly becomes infatuated with Bella as of book 3, et cetera), then it can progress to Stage 4, and the canon defense has no hope of stopping it. Only an Editor can intervene.
Once the Sue is dealt with, the plot can still be ruptured. The only way to fix this is to let the plot repair itself. To do this, someone has to lead the plot. An Editor has to be placed into CPI (Complete Plot Immersion), and take the Sue's place in the world. The Editor will have all of the Sue's powers, and remnants of his or her forceful personality traits will try to reassert themselves. The Editor must lessen the Sue's role in the story to the point that it devolves to a Stage 3 or less and the Plot can "kill" the Sue. Example:
The original Hero of Star Wars was Anakin. During his battle with Count Dooku, he switched from Stage 3 to Stage 4. The story retaliated by sending the entire Jedi Order against him, but he slaughtered them all with assistance from the Stormtroopers. He then helped build the Empire. Later, after the events at Sky City in Episode 5, he was killed by Editors. He was replaced by an Editor under CPI, who downplayed Vader's role until he could kill the Emperor and himself. Luke proceeds to take over the EU as a Jedi Master.

>> No.16523780

The simple question had the desired effect. The boy looked up, righteous indignation burning in his eyes. Eric had to hand it to the kid, he only shrank back momentarily upon seeing his face before launching into a tirade most editors had heard a dozen times before.

"Why did you stop me!?", he raged, shouting right in Eric's face."I was only trying to save a great man. Don't you understand? I was trying to save lives. I not sure see what you people don't get about that. Hell, you do it every day all across the metaverse. You remove sues and repair reality's. You protect characters lives. I was only trying to do the same thing. What right do you have to look judge me?!"

Eric wiped the spittle from his face with the back of his hand. He gave the boy what he hoped was a look of compassion. "Do you know why your here?"

"I was only trying to save-"

Eric cut him off,"You are here because you illegally entered fiction universe OP. Once there, you posed as a guard and infiltrated the great underwater prison, Impel Down, in an attempt to free Portgas D. "Fire Fist" Ace. We believe that you did this in order to avert the Battle of Marineford, and the deaths of both Ace and Edward "Whitebeard" Newgate, all class A plot points that Editors are authorized to use lethal force in order to defend. Your honestly lucky that we caught you as soon as we did.

>> No.16523814

protectors of the plot continuum. this is just one link, you have to dig through google for the rest.

http://www.misssandman.com/PPC/story.html


I've have an idea like this for a long time that I could never get to perfecting. My last attempt involved using the WoD system. Modified Exalted charms would represent the reality-bending powers, while each character would have stats measured in 'Real' and 'Fantasy' dots. Real dots were just that, highly effective against imaginary foes, and could not be taken away. Fantasy dots were powers and abilities that you only thought you had, (sues had tons) and while easy to amass, did not work quite so well in conflict with 'real' people.

I had an assortment of modified backgrounds...

'hideout' which was a stable place inside a work of fiction you could live and work in without worrying about messing with canon.

'insertion' meant you fit in naturally with the storyline, didn't cause disruptions with your presence, and could even hold rank or have influence in various groups within the story.

'cache' you possessed a hidden store of fiction-appropriate items to pick up whenever you needed to work in a particular story.

>> No.16523819

"Not just them," the fixer said, "everyone who suffered because of that war. Think about it, if it hadn't happened not only would everyone who died in the war still be alive, but the island under Whitebeards protection would still be safe and the worlds would not have been thrown into chaos."

"That may be true," Eric countered, "but without the war Luffy would not have met Jinbe, any on the Whitebeards, or Ivankov. Also, his defeat in the war prompted him to take two years off to learn haki and prepare for the New World."

"But he's just one person."
"He's also the main character."
"And it's acceptable to let everyone else suffer for his sake!"
"It doesn't matter how much they suffer! It's CANON!"

The were both standing now, nose to nose, red in the face. Eric was the one who sat first.

>> No.16523860

>>16511386
It makes Sues look like Lovecraftean horrors instead of bad writings. Not that it's a bad thing, hell it could make a fun one off game in CoC or something.

>Delta Sue

>> No.16523964

This would be perfect to set the mood for anyone who wants to play a setting like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_World_of_His_Own

>> No.16523976

"I'm sorry," Eric said, wiping sweat now from brow, "it's just that us Proofreaders get a little fires up about canon. Please, sit back down."

Something about the Proofreaders manner Seemed to drain the anger out of the Fixer. He sat back down, looking more tired now than angry. After a minute he asked Eric, genuine curiosity in his eyes, "How do you do it? You seem to love that world. How can you just let things like tat happen?"

"It's because I have faith in the author," Eric replied. "I have faith that Oda knows what he's doing with his world and is going to bring everything to a satisfying conclusion. As far as I see it, that's the only thing I have that you lack. Just a little faith."

The fixer considered Eric's words for a bit, then asked, "Whats going to happen to me?"

"Since this is your first offense I and in light of your reasoning, I'm recommending you be let off with a light sentence. Perhaps service to the agency, and then a probationary period on your home reality."

The fixer nodded at this. His job done, Eric got up to leave. As he reached the door he heard the fixer call him,"Eric?"

Eric turned to face him. "Yes?"

>> No.16524127

>>16523976
"What did that to your face, if you don't mind me asking?"

Eric let out a chuckle. "Well, every proofreader starts out a field agent, and most agents are assigned a main reality to defend. Mine was OP. I liked it. It was easier to police than most anime universes, not as many Sues to worry about. But when the war of the best happened, Sues flocked to it like flies to honey, each hoping to get a piece of that sweet, sweet spotlight. I got a whole team together to keep them from influencing the battle, and it was harder work than any we had ever done, but we manged to keep them from interfering with it."

"And one of them burned your face like that?"

At this Eric let out a hearty laugh, "No, got careless toward the end. Couldn't move fast enough. Got to close. Point is, Akainu did this to me."

With that, Eric walked through the door, leaving the stunned Fixer behind him.

>> No.16524300

>>16524127
>>16523976
>>16523819
>>16523780
>>16523382
SHEER BRILLIANCE.
That perfectly captured the essence of what we've been creating here. Well done, sir.

>> No.16524319

>>16523382
>>16523780
>>16523819
>>16523976
>>16524127
Beautiful. Working on some in-the-field write-faggotry because of this. All of my thanks.

>> No.16524660

Right! Shi/t g/ets done phase commences! Our headquarters will be on Mibbit for what may become an RP, hopefully. Get in here and discuss more about the possible mechanics and ramifications of using Risus as the game system.

http://mibbit.com/?channel=%23theeditors&server=irc.mibbit.net

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