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[ERROR] No.16490561 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Could someone explain the Tau to me?

I've recently taken an interest in 40k because of how often you guys talk about it, and a friend of mine who plays the tabletop game was explaining the races to me today. I picked up on the basics of it. The Humans praise the emprah and purge xenos and heretics, the Eldar are backstabbing space elf pricks, the Orks are basically the Orcs from Warhammer Fantasy Battles but in space, the Necrons are robot skeletons that want to destroy everything, etc...

But something just felt a bit off about how he described the Tau. A peaceful, diplomatic race that wants to create a utopia society and only fight because other races attack them? At least that's what it sounded like. It almost made them seem like the "good guy" race, which just felt out of place considering what else I've heard about the setting while browsing here. In the grim darkness of the future, isn't there only war?

I was just hoping you guys could maybe clear this one up for me. Thanks in advance.

>> No.16490616

If by peaceful and diplomatic, you mean invaders and indoctrinators...then yea. They encroach on other occupied systems and try to take over. Also, their methods of "persuasion" are basically indoctrination into the "Greater Good".

Still some would say the are the..."less evil" of 40K but they are still douches.

>> No.16490646

If the Tau existed in our time, they would be a rogue state of the worst sort. Imperialistic and proud of it, totally convinced of their own society's superiority and right to dominate all others. The ONLY thing that makes them MARGINALLY less evil than the Imperium is that they are at best tolerant of other species so long as they swear loyalty to the Greater Good. They will also try diplomacy before shooting everything.

So yeah. In a world of horribad people, they're the lesser of all evils. Marginally.

>> No.16490654

Space Commies.

They preach on and on about the "greater good", and will enforce that shit with extreme firepower if you try to resist it. You WILL become part of the Tau empire, or you WILL get shot to shit.

For your own benefit, of course. They wouldn't want to demolish your home and destroy your livelihood for no good reason, now.

If your friend painted it as "Oh, they're largely peaceful and only fight because others attack them first" he's probably a Tau fan and is trying to give them the absolute best light possible to win you over to the side of the Greater Good as well.

He also seems to have missed the 'Nids, which are a hive mind dedicated to just plain eating EVERYTHING.

</Much of the Above based on what I've gleaned from browsing /tg/ as I have an interest in 40k., but not the cash to play it>

>> No.16490690

Considering that the "Greater Good" essentially equates to the completely arbitray will of the Ethereals, they are actually morally worse off than the Imperium.

At least the Imperium knows that they blindly follow the will of the Emperor (in theory), and don't make excuses about it or pretend it is something else.

>> No.16490697

>>16490561

If you want to get a good picture of the relationship between the Imperium and the Tau, to see both sides' views on each other, I recommend this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrHhS5IkRR0

Also, if you've taken an interest in 40K, I highly recommend the game that dialogue comes from: Dawn of War.

>> No.16490702

This thread pretty much covers it.

Also there are rumors that the Tau use mind control to dominate their populace into following the Greater Good.

>> No.16490717

>and only fight because other races attack them
Full bullshit. They fight to expand their empire. This attitude is so ingrained into them that before the Ethereals came along the four sub-species nearly shot each other into extinction. With flintlock weapons. After the Ethereals came and united them, they reverse-engineered technology so that they could attack everybody else instead, so as to spread the Tau way of life.

>> No.16490753

Alright then, thanks everyone. I figured there was more to it than that.

If you guys don't mind me asking another question, my friend also made mention that "There were space dwarves on tricycles, but the setting got too grimdark for them and they're all dead now"

Could anyone elaborate on that?

>> No.16490773

>>16490753

Ah, you're talking about the infamous Squats.

Yes, they were basically space dwarves. Games Workshop retconned them out of existence, or rather, had the Tyranids devour them all. So yeah, they're gone.

>> No.16490775

>>16490561
Meh their leaders use pheromones to control them.

>> No.16490781

>>16490753

Well, I suppose we -could- . . .

>> No.16490784

>>16490561
Troll thread, I daresay, where the OP feigns ignorance and then gives faggots an opportunity to rant and scream about the Tau.

>> No.16490793

Sheesh, /tg/ is ignorant on the Tau.

>> No.16490795

Y'all Gue'la postin' in a troll thread.

>> No.16490799

>>16490753
Rogue Trader and 2nd ed. had "Squats" which were essentially Space Dwarves. They did indeed use a tricycle vehicle. GW didn't like their implementation and essentially wrote them out of the game. They're no Longer canon. The Space Dwarves of 40k are now called Demiurg, but they exist only via some concept art and some ships for Battlefleet Gothic.

>> No.16490848

>>16490753

Warhammer 40000 used to be a small side-project of Games Workshop, basically making Warhammer but in space. Along with space elves and space orcs and space Empire, there were space dwarves. However, they were very silly and had a stupid name and really nothing much about them that was worthwhile. After years of none of the members getting around to writing another book for them they gave up and wrote that the Squat worlds were eaten by the tyranids. The end.

They were pretty much a bad idea from the start, and didn't have enough to distinguish themselves from the Imperial Guard except for their silliness.

>> No.16490858

>>16490773
Yeah, the only descendant of humans or just human faction in general that was progressing in tech and actually doing well. GW couldn't have the idea of people being happy in this setting so they killed the Space Dwarves with the Space Bugs.

>> No.16490866

DoW is a bit imperial-biased in all its naration.

Tau are pretty much Star Trek's Federation. When compared to Klingons, Borg and the Dominion, They're sort of the good guys in all that. Put'em in many other settings and you've got an expansive communist rule that wants everyone to adhere to their standards of equality.

The Tau have much to offer. They're basically the ONLY race in 40k that doesn't want genocide of everything else by default (only each-other before the ethereals came along). The Greater Good is as close as you can get to functional, theoretical Communism (as opposed to the regimes that call themselves that despite being tyrranies or oligopolies at best) as most would bother imagining. Everyone works together, everyone benefits, now stop shooting eachother in the face and help me build this bridge.

They offer "join us" first. When that doesn't work they try to at least get trade agreements and alliances because, well, that IS a good close second thing. When that doesn't work they'll try and do so covertly, while trying to at least get a non-aggression pact. When that doesn't work (and non-aggression not working means "NO! XENOS MUST BE PURGED" is the answer after all", they go 'fuckit' and send in an invasion force, if they don't think their water caste can subvert the underworld to their side instead.

The only (and rumored) internment camps were for soldiers that had willingly joined and then betrayed'em. Its still the nicest bunch you can hope to meet or join in 40k; they'd just be considered a forceful encroaching empire in almost any other setting. Even then they only got THIS quick to fire (and that's pretty slow) after realising that there's gargantuan other races out there whose MO is "kill maim burn".

>> No.16490869

>>16490848
>really nothing much about them that was worthwhile

o rly?

>> No.16490879

>>16490869
o rly o rly?

>> No.16490902

>>16490879
still more o rly?

>> No.16490923

>Tau thread on /tg/.

Here we go....

>> No.16490924

>>16490866
Tau=Federation

NOPEjpg

These guys would be the evil facist aliens in most other settings. In 40k they are as idealistic and impractical is teenage anarchists.

>> No.16490925

Oh yay. They have tanks. That is so great and distinctive I could bubble from the amazement.

>> No.16490933

I thought the Tau were basically Noobs in space?

I mean in Warhammer 40k novels, Imperials laugh at their reasons for claiming territories (i.e. securing economic bases, Ciaphas Cain laughed at it because its the oldest trick in the book)

>> No.16490938

>>16490654
Tau are not Communist in any way.

>> No.16490942

>>16490925
Tanks with RUNES and FLAMING HAMMERS and cool distinctive designs. And airships. Let's not forget airships.

>> No.16490947

>>16490924
Tau are the Roman Empire in space. Believe themselves to be superior, highly imperialistic, use auxiliaries, etc.

>> No.16490955

>>16490866
Oh, Ordos Hereticus inquisitor chick, I so want to bone you.

>> No.16490959

>>16490924
>Basing your knowledge on a faction only on grimderp implications
You might as well talk about Ultramarines when you're only knowledge on them is based off Matt Ward's fluff

>> No.16490981

>>16490959
What other fluff do you have?

>> No.16490982

>>16490959
>implying implications

>> No.16490984

>>16490981
On Ultramarines or Tau?

>> No.16490987

>>16490982
>implying implications were implied

>> No.16491000

How can the Tau be communist if they follow a caste system and have clearly set hierarchies? Is it just me or do people on /tg/ just not understand the word communism?

>> No.16491004

>>16490993
Except the Tau are Plato's republic. Hell the fact that they have a caste system should be enough to tell they're not communists.

>> No.16491010

>>16490955
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZzmtifzWQg&feature=player_detailpage#t=223s

>> No.16491033

>>16490993
Communism states that everyone is equal. The entire Tau philosophy is based around everyone being unequal and assigned to different roles based on their strengths, that's Utilitarianism and about as far from Communist as you can get.

In turn these castes are ruled over by another ruling caste, who oversee and dictate work - again, not Communist theory at all.

One thing that is Communist is that the government owns the means of production, but does not, as far as I know, redistribute it equally, among the workforce. This also applies to all 40k factions, aside from the Dark Eldar who are Randian as fuck.

>> No.16491039

>>16491033

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is Leninism.

>> No.16491043

>>16490987
>implying implied implications were ever implicated

>> No.16491049

>>16490993
finishing the story

>>16491000
We're using the word to refer to what the USSR and China called communism.

Not your impossible, philosophical ideal that has never been really attempted let alone achieved.

Also Marx himself advocated a "dictatorship of the people" lead by a bureaucracy of professional revolutionaries as the transitional stage to communism.

just deal

>> No.16491053

>>16491039

But that's not really the Greater Good.

>> No.16491054

Tau philosophy dictates that we murder, maim and castrate lesser races... For the greater good.

>> No.16491057

some of these people are right some are wrong all you need to know from what i read is that the beef th tau have with the imperium is that on a tau world a army of space marines came cause there were zeno there on a planet in there space but not colonized so the zeno push back all the tau to there basically command hut then the imperials come in and sweep the floor of the zeno then go to this command bunker where the last of them were and they opened the door and said "are you apart of the greater good" the space marine looked right at him and shot him right in the face and said "no" then killed them also this person they killed was a eternal basically the highest class you can get in there system.

>> No.16491061

>>16491039
That's Marx, and is one slogan, not the whole of Communism.

>> No.16491072

>>16491054
>"The alien is not intrinsically evil.

>Do not hate him. Pity him his ignorance.

>Seek to understand his differences

>And acquaint him with his inadequacies.

>Only then will he accept his place

>in the Greater Good."

>> No.16491080

>>16491072
Well shit Ghandi.

>> No.16491082

warhammer 40K in a nutshell

>> No.16491083

>>16491057

. . . What?

>> No.16491089

>>16491061
>>16491039
It's older than Marx or Lenin and it's not actually an integral tenet of Marxism/Marxism-Leninism. Marx makes a passing reference to the saying when he says that such a slogan could only be adopted as policy in a post-capitalist society.

>> No.16491107

>>16491049
>We're using the word to refer to what the USSR and China called communism. Not your impossible, philosophical ideal that has never been really attempted let alone achieved.

What the USSR and China did was an attempt at Communism. If the ethereals were similar to a Communist party, they would claim to be holding power temporarily only for as long as it takes to eliminate class (or caste, for the Tau) differences. They would also claim to be holding power only as the servants of the Earth Caste. I don't think they say anything like that.

>> No.16491110

>>16491033
>Government owns the means of production. This also applies to all 40k factions except DE.

Well no.

The Mekboy owns his stuff, the Warboss just beats him over the head until he give it to him.

The Eldar are an example because their communally owned machines make everything for them.

The Crons are owned by their Lord and God. Which ever one it is.

The Imperium has vast trading houses and and factories that are owned privately. The great houses of hives often own the factories. But the Mechanicus does own all it's Forge Worlds and some factories are run by Adeptus Terra. But capitalism is still alive and well.

Chaos pulls magic bullshit out of their 4th dimensional asses.

>> No.16491129

>>16491049
>Also Marx himself advocated a "dictatorship of the people" lead by a bureaucracy of professional revolutionaries as the transitional stage to communism.
Oh my fuck what is this shit
Marx didn't even cover professional revolutionaries as a topic, that was fucking Lenin and the vanguardist revolutionaries are distinct from the bureaucracy you gigantic numpty.

>> No.16491132

Here is a good video on the way the Tau treat other races with their diplomacy and "Greater Good."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYAjyJvPFfI

>> No.16491141

The Tau are expansionist conquers who fight for the Greater Good. What's the Greater Good you ask? Their way of doing stuff, which happens to include assimilating other cultures, caste based society, and slavish obedience to a cast that uses pheromones to mind control their population. The Tau have plenty of Grimdark, they're just better at hiding it and have better PR. After all, if everything you knew about the Soviet Union came from Soviet propaganda you'd think it was an awesome place too.

>> No.16491154

>>16491141
Likewise one would believe its hell with all the American propaganda they ate up.
Ehe-he-hem.

>> No.16491157

>>16491033
So, what we can tell from the posters here..

1. most of them don't know what real communism is, and love branding anything not "good ol' american capitalism" communism.

2. If you betray the Tau, you will suffer, but then again, betraying anyone tends to make you suffer. At least the Tau allow you to live afterwords.

3. On the whole, the Tau are the least asshole prone race in the galaxy that have a prominent role.

A lot of people here hate them because they don't like anything not human.

>> No.16491174

>>16491033
>Communism states that everyone is equal
It kind of doesn't. It says that in the primitive pre-class societies that was true, but ever since then that's just not been the case. Right now there's a productive class (good guys yay) and an owning class (pigfuckers boooo) and ideally the productive class should rule absolutely ruthlessly over society until the class distinctions of society distinctions are erased. THEN we can all be equals.

>> No.16491175

>>16491110

Eldar aren't communist, they're post-scarcity. Everything they need to live is provided for them, as are the means by which they pursue their Paths. Communism implies some sort of trade, or at least barter, and I'm pretty sure Eldar don't even use money.

>> No.16491176

>>16491141

What makes the Tau grimdark is not Stalinism. The communism is a thin veneer that represents the bright paint over the racist, imperialistic center.

Its not the Tau are a mercilessly egalitarian, anti-individualistic bureaucracy that erases people's lives and speaks in doubleplusgood doublethink.

It is that the Tau are a bunch of hyper-patriotic provincials who lump other races into their preexisting way of doing things, trying to make less-good-Tau out of other races and wasting the potential of utilizing different tactics from different civilizations and species.

They're the Japanese empire - racial superiority and ultra-nationalism wrapped up in a phony multicultural philosophy emphasizing harmony.

>> No.16491178

>>16491174
Woops, multiple distinctions. I'm sure you get the gist of it.

>> No.16491183

>>16491157
>they don't like anything not human
Nonsense. We absolutely adore the Orks, and to a lesser extent we like the Kroot too.

>> No.16491187

>>16491129
Marx wanted a group of intellectuals to guild the people to his communist ideal after a revolution.

Yes, he didn't actually say "professional revolutionaries" but really what else would you call them. They would be politicians or popular revolutionaries by the very nature of how the leadership of a revolution is formed.

Of course the whole labor value theory of economics is flawed to shit anyway so the entire underpinning for the idea is not really that valid, especially today.

>> No.16491192

>>16491175
>Communism implies some sort of trade, or at least barter
yer wot
One of the big points of communism is the elimination of commerce.

>> No.16491193

>>16490947
EVERYONE'S THE FUCKING ROMAN EMPIRE IN 40K

GOT MORE ROMANS HERE THAN DURING THE FUCKING ROMAN ERA

>> No.16491198

>>16491187
>Of course the whole labor value theory of economics is flawed to shit anyway so the entire underpinning for the idea is not really that valid, especially today.
I'm sure you'd get that impression from a capitalist education in economics.

>> No.16491210

>>16491082
The bit about the eldar is great.

>> No.16491212

>>16491176
>They're the Japanese empire - racial superiority and ultra-nationalism wrapped up in a phony multicultural philosophy emphasizing harmony.

This. Definitely this. The only thing lacking is that they're not claiming that their 'harmonious union' is to fight against evil (white) imperialists, while actually being even more evil imperialists.

>> No.16491213

>>16491192

That doesn't mean the elimination of money. Everyone in a communist nation is still paid for their labor. They're just paid the same wages as everyone else and they use that money to get what they need or what.

For the Eldar, everything is simply there for the taking. The Eldar use what they need and aren't expected to pay for anything, or even have a job. They're expected to pursue Paths and contribute to the society by means of making sweet art or learning how to be killing machines.

>> No.16491222

>>16491213
>That doesn't mean the elimination of money. Everyone in a communist nation is still paid for their labor. They're just paid the same wages as everyone else and they use that money to get what they need or what.
Just stop, seriously.

>> No.16491228

>>16491187

Labor added theory of economics is the basis of classical liberalism. There literally would not be free market theory / neoliberalism without the moral philosophy of the Whigs and later the Liberals that built upon the proto-revolutionary French economic theories of physiocracy and gave it moral dimensions, such as in the works of Locke where the entire concept of a man's right to his own private property is based on the idea that it became his by him adding his labor into the raw materials of the environment.

Labor added does not reflect the realities of a market economy, and thus an economy in general, as supply and demand effects price. HOWEVER, the legal system and cultural embrace of the market and the sophisticated structures around private property developed in the 18th and 19th centuries were based on the philosophical concepts tied to value added based agricultural economics.

>> No.16491244

>>16491222

The Soviet Union, at least, still used money.

>> No.16491245

>>16491213
Yeah, you pretty much made the Eldar sound Communist there.

>> No.16491255

>>16491245

Uh, how? Communist nations still had their people working jobs. Eldar don't have jobs, they all essentially have hobbies that they're REALLY obsessed with.

>> No.16491257

>>16491244
The substance of communism isn't kalashnikovs, red banners and state capitalism.

>> No.16491259

>>16491245
eldar interactions with other eldar are basically ideal communism

>> No.16491273

>>16491255
The Eldar are Communist as in they've achieved something a lot like Communism (unlike any real-world countries)

>> No.16491278

>>16491259

Well, ideal communism and actual practiced communism are two very different things.

>> No.16491284

>>16491259

Sounds like you could actually explain Eldar society as a form of guild (based on a specific craft) rather than industrial (everyone working in a given type of means of production) syndicalism.

The skills still necessary in the Eldar's post-scarcity society are divided among certain specific castes/religious orders, guilds basically, and people are expected to join a guild and devote their life to it; and as long as you do that, your other needs are taken care of.

>> No.16491296

>>16491273

It's more accurate to call the Eldar's society post-scarcity, though. Kinda like Culture-lite.

>> No.16491297

>>16491244
>>16491257
The whole confusion here is basically whether 'Communist society' means (a) a society which has achieved Communism, or (b) a society whose leadership professes Communist ideals.

>> No.16491298

>Eldar are communist
That explains why they are such pathetic failures in fluff.

Dark Eldar on the other hand exercise capitalism at its finest.

>> No.16491299

>>16491278
You could say that the eldar are communist rather than attempted communist. Clearly there is some difference in elder psychology that makes it actually work for them.

>> No.16491308

tau are my favourite, its because of firewarrior, that was the first glimpse of 40k i got and loved the shit out of it (dunno what /tg/ thinks and i dont really care)

the thing that i like about em after reading most (maybe all) of the codexs, and every time tau are mentioned, they are noted to have respect for their troops. where IG for example expend their men for the sake of victory, the tau will not allow their soldiers to die needlessly, that also goes for auxilery. the tau care more for their human allies than the humans care for humans.

>> No.16491326

>>16491296
No reason why a post-scarcity society can't be Communist.

>> No.16491331

>>16491299

I think it's just the fact that they understand if they don't abolish unnecessary labor, wages and trade and allow all of their people to freely pursue a way to contribute to society they're completely fucked.

I mean, they're still fucked but imagine how much worse they'd be off if they weren't able to have all, or nearly all, of their population able to defend their homes.

>> No.16491338

>>16491306
The really funny thing is that the fluff says almost nothing about economics. Probably because that wouldn't be very interesting fluff.

>> No.16491339

>>16491308

Except that's wrong, Kroot and the Gue'la auxilleries are LITERALLY nothing but cannon fodder for the Tau. Humans don't get any better things than the average Guardsmen, not to mention that the Tau in Firewarrior was possessed by a Daemon of Khorne (In the book) to be able to even kill the first Astartes you saw.

>> No.16491355

Reminds me more of the resource based economy the Zeitgeist Movement talks about in their movies.

>> No.16491391

>>16491308
>its because of firewarrior, that was the first glimpse of 40k
Yeah my First glimpse of 40k was playing a friend's copy of Dawn of War Dark Crusade because they where the the only ones that looked interesting plus their commander didn't sound like a dick like the other ones
I mean we had 3 human factions, elves, orks, and robots

>> No.16491412

>>16491339

Wrong.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080420071331/http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/tau-auxiliaries/

>Those humans who have joined the Tau empire have been provided with the technology required to prevail on the Tau frontier. They have limited production capabilities, allowing them to construct equipment ranging from simple farming tools to a copy of the standard issue Imperial lasgun. In times of war, the Tau allow the Gue'vesa access to more advanced weaponry such as pulse rifles and carbines and other, more specialised equipment. These auxiliaries have become a respected part of the Tau military in the border regions, where they fill a tactical niche between the barbaric Kroot and the mainstay of Tau armies, the Fire Warrior teams. The Gue'vesa may lack the close combat savagery of the Kroot, but they are fully capable of using the more advanced examples of Tau technology, and using them to further the cause of the Greater Good.

Note "provided with the technology required to prevail on the Tau frontier." "These auxiliaries have become a respected part of the Tau military in the border regions" "fully capable of using the more advanced examples of Tau technology". And "Their offspring" as well. As much as /tg/ likes HURF DURF XENO LOVER STERILIZED CANNON FODDER and LOYALIST GUARD SO BADASS BALLS OF STEEL HUMANITY FUCK YEAH FAPFAPFAPFAP KILLS THEM ALL NAO it is not canon.

>> No.16491419

>>16491339
source?

everytime i read or hear about the tau i hear their impervious to chaos and that they dont even register in the warp etc

also they may be the ones to rush the gates of a fortification, but they had adequate support and wont be sent into a meat grinder

read the codexs (not just taus aswell)

>> No.16491421

Don't the Tau covertly sterilize the non Tau races in their empire?

>> No.16491435

Suddenly Grey Knight

>> No.16491447

Tau is north korea.

>> No.16491448

>>16491421
It's not canon
It was only done in 40k DoW Dark Crusade Tau ending

>> No.16491451

>>16491435

Why would you do that?

>> No.16491453

>>16491412

I'd say Gue'Vasa are are the best you could be in 40k canon - the badassery of the IG combined with the ridiculous firepower of the Tau - going by the fluff for both they should be unstoppable. If only the rules reflected what the more creative Humans would do with Tau tech.

>> No.16491477

Its Grey Knight time bitches.

>> No.16491492

>>16491306
I know that feel

>> No.16491502

>>16491421

That was only the humans that didn't openly convert to the Greater good, they sterilized them on Kronos, according to DC. The ones that did defect to the Tau I assume were just left alone, ESPECIALLY considering O'Kais' dialogue in the game.

Also, has no-one made the connection that O'Kais is the same Kais from Fire Warrior? I mean, that Tau is BAD-FUCKING-ASSED.

>> No.16491522

>>16491502
>>Shas'o Kais is the same Kais from Fire Warrior
Actually, no. Kais is a semi-common name for tau, like "Larry" or "James", and means "Skilled". The Kais from Fire Warrior was urged by Khorne during the game and is currently chilling in an asylum for either A) having gone full MAIM! KILL! BURN! sometime post-game, or B) telling his superiors how he single-handedly killed hundreds of Guard, dozens of Astartes, a fuckload of daemons, and soloed a Lord of Change. Possibly both.

>> No.16491527

>>16491502
the only problem is Kias is the Tau version of John smith.

>> No.16491538

>>16491502
I thought he got put in a psychiatric ward for being crazy, though it would make some sense. He can't fight as a foot soldier ever again, but inside of a Tau battlesuit he might still be useful if he's not crazy. Also Tau only live to be 40 years old or something like that, so I didn't think he had much of a career left anyways.

>> No.16491540

>>16491502
> Single fire warrior versus daemon prince
> Who won?

Fuck yeaaaaahhhhh.

>> No.16491558

>>16491538

you imply hes getting too old? the game goes over a '24 hour' period, also he was fresh from training or some BS

>>16491522

in the game the visor records everything, if he went to an asylum it be for the former reason, not the latter

>> No.16491563

>>16491110

>The Imperium has vast trading houses and and factories that are owned privately. The great houses of hives often own the factories. But the Mechanicus does own all it's Forge Worlds and some factories are run by Adeptus Terra. But capitalism is still alive and well.

The Tau have vast trading houses and an entire caste devoted to commerce. The Imperium controls everything, they grant writs and marks to trading houses, but in the end, if it's needed by the Government, it's taken without asking or explanation. Inquisitors can take whatever they want.


Face it, the Imperium is far more communistic than the Tau, no matter how hard you cry about it. The real answer, of course, is that they are all fascist.

>> No.16491568

>>16491538
yeah Normally you live till around 40 UNLESS your destined for awesome then you just keep going fueled on being epic Like Farsight.

>> No.16491574

>>16491522
Didn't happen in the game, and the book ending is most likely propaganda, since the notion of a god intervening to possess an individual mortal, let alone a tau is... well, not impossible, but certainly 100% unprecedented.

>> No.16491617

>>16491540
as well as Tau being supposedly immune to Chaos influence - the case for O'Kais being the same guy (the likelyhood of Tau brass studying the combat recordings, seeing what he did - READ: SOLOING A GODDAMNED DEMON PRINCE) Might have meant he was bumped up a few ranks quickly and, as
>>16491558
says,
Kais was fresh from training at the start of the game, implying he was just a very, very good warrior.

>> No.16491633

>>16491522

>The Kais from Fire Warrior was urged by Khorne during the game

Not true, the idea of a Khornate Tau is ridiculous at best, and insane at worst. Nothing like it happens in the game, he partners up with the Space Marines in order to fuck the chaos threat for the Greater Good after his Ethereal is slaughtered by Chaos.

>> No.16491655

>>16491633

The book says the dude from Firewarrior was possessed by either Khorne, or a Khornate daemon. Nothing else disputes this and with GW's stance on what is canon, it's fucking canon.

Also Daemon-possessed Tau? See: Farsight Enclave

Farsight wields a Daemon/Relic Blade.

>> No.16491681

>>16491306

What else is there?

>> No.16491686

I've started with a Tau army recently. I hope to create some more variety in septs like there are space marine chapters.

>> No.16491690

>>16490848

What's so interesting about Dwarves in Warhammer fantasy, and why doesn't it work in space?

>> No.16491694

>>16491655
Exactly true. Everything in 40k is canon, but not necessarily true -- just that someone believes it to be true.

So most likely either one lone tauboy didn't kill an army of SM and CSM himself, or he did and a retarded inquisitor went "Oh, well the only logical reason is space Satan."

>> No.16491702

>>16491538
>>16491558
It's not that he's too old from the land on this planet, now we're going on a ship oh wait we're getting boarded, now you board their ship, now we're going to this other planet, now we're done. It's more that the game was set several hundred years ago. Firewarrior was set right when Tau were first introduced.

Heck, if the setting is now a good thousand years past from then. Kais the Firewarior should be dead for about 700 years now.

Shouldn't the Tau technology have advanced in that time? Where are the grav deathspheres armed with meson canons or whatever?

>> No.16491718

>>16491655

What'd you mean, nothing else disputes this? Tau as a race dispute it, having no real presence in the warp and no psychic influence to exploit as way in.

That the book says it is, I think, ropey at best, and with Relic's free rein with canon, I'd go with Relic over the book.

[tghasnospoilers] It's mostly just 'cause I want Kais to be the demon-soloing badass thoughout the games, though. Even Grimdark needs some heroes. [nospoilers]

>> No.16491723

>>16491655
>The book says
No it didn't.
The book said that Kais was guided by an undivided daemon. Kais wasn't possessed, but more like guided. His instinct and intuition was simply enhanced greatly.

>> No.16491727

>>16491655
And where has it been stated that the blade is Daemonic? Hell if anything I would Say it is one of the Eldar gods swords Sure still technically Daemonic but not Lolrandomchaos type Daemonic.

>>16491686
Not too bad but Thin your paints

>> No.16491738

>>16491702

That game really shows how badass the Space Marines are, though. that first fight with them proper, on the Tau Bridge, is just brutal.

>> No.16491743

>>16491727
Its implied because the blade was found on a once conquered chaos planet.
Or something like that.

>> No.16491756

>>16491718
>a single Tau firewarrior takes on dreadnoughts, dozens of SMs and perhaps hundreds of guardsman alone is a hero
>a single Eldar stops an entire hive fleet tendril alone while on a planet, just fun
>a SM or a guardsman does anything beyond their station: MARY SUE
The only thing worse than the Imperial focus that GW has is the people who backlash against it, with predictable results.

>> No.16491775

>>16491690

I don't really understand why GW couldn't just make squats more integrated into the imperium instead of just abolishing them altogether. Have them work as maintainance crews or something. The Imperium already has space ogres and space halflings, why not give space dwarves something to do if they can't be their own faction?

>> No.16491782

>>16491756

Fuck, man. I would pay THROUGH THE NOSE for a Call Of Duty-style game abotu an Imperial Guardsman, who has to fight the normal things an IG is expected to fight. That game, done canonically and 'realistically' would be FUCKING BRILLIANT.

>> No.16491796

>>16491775
There is a Dwarf archetype in 40k even with the Squats being Nid food, but they haven't been expanded that much. The only thing we do know about them is that they are a trading partner with the Tau and they have some amazing ships, and of course a hatred for Orks too.

>> No.16491818

>>16491756
no normally its some Xenos does something cool and different Imperium fanboys rage and NOXENOSSCUMCANTDOTHATYOUSTUPIDSHITLOBSTERFUCKKNUCKLECUNTMONKEY.
Yet make it a human and all is fine.

Also you got it wrong
> A xeno does anything close to win = BADWRONG Cannot do that xeno faggot you fucking mary sue hipster cock gobbler.


>>16491743
Arthas Molch (or something like that?) its described as a Dead world could be anything hell could be the remains of a DAOT world or a Necron world or a Ex Space Slann world. its not got the look of your usual chaos shit so it could be anything.

>> No.16491822

>>16491796
Demiurg.
>>16491775
Because the focus that they had in the grand scheme of things had them militarily identical to SMs, they were eternally at odds with the Mechanicus, etc. GW basically wrote themselves into a corner.

>> No.16491845

>>16491782
You start off as some PDF fighting the Tau. Typical BROWN AND BLOOM battles in cities. Then your squad is sent out to defeat a Tau squad. Everytime you're about to fight, some piece from a spaceship crashes and interrupts everything. You get separated from your squad, and you have to go through an underground area. At the end, just as you emerge, so does a Tau from an alternate opening. You point your guns at each other, and you get yourself a Mexican Standoff.

And then your radio goes off. Your comrades are screaming, they're being torn apart. You look at the Tau, and he's getting the same thing. Suddenly all of the sky is filled with horrible creatures and space ships. The planet is now a free-for-all, and you've got to get out. You've no choice but to team up with the enemy before you.

Would you play it?

>> No.16491851

>>16491818
>>16491756

gotta ask, what the fuck is mary sue? some american thing?

>> No.16491863

>>16491818
Gimme an example.
When a non-Imperial force does something ridiculous, it's usually not MENTIONED.
Tau Firewarrior.
Maugan Ra.
The Eldar in the whole of the Eye of Terror campaign if you go by the victory margins.
I don't complain about them, let everyone have their big damn moments, it makes the game fun. But don't bitch and moan when someone you don't like does something ridiculous in a setting built on those things.

>> No.16491878

>>16491845

I don't know, I imagine more:

>You're fighting across a brown and bloom city against chaos cultists, having taken up arms against the PDF on some backwater planet. There's a long fight up some slope to a planetary comms array, and you're almost there when

>Drop pod his the ground, Chaos Marine steps out and it's HOLY FUCK THESE GUYS ARE TEN FEET TALL AND HOLDING CANNONS BIGGER THAN MY CHARACTER

>DEMONS, DEMONS EVERYWHERE

>EVERY FIGHT IS LIFE OR DEATH

>HOLY SHIT IT'S LIKE FPS DEMON SOULS

Allofmymoney.jpg


However, your idea is also fantastic.

>> No.16491893

>>16491851
A mary sue, by the literal term, is a female character fanfic introduced into a story that by dint of the author, is inherently superior to the pre-established characters without going thru the situations they have to earn them.
>see: Fanfiction.net/Eragon
The more popular term is a character that is exceedingly powerful in relation to the standard ability of his faction/race or relative to the setting.
>See: Draigo
The troll terminology is literally an insult to a disliked character.
>See: Draigo again

>> No.16491895

>>16491878
Heh, might as well warm up MW2.

>> No.16491918

>>16491895

Imagine the Juggernauts. Only they're ten feet tall. Only there's a whole army of them. And they're firing guns that can blow you to gutsy peices in a single shot. And they have chainswords. And can be possessed by Daemons.

Oh fuck yes, I would play the shit out of that game.

>> No.16491926

>>16491878
>>HOLY SHIT IT'S LIKE FPS DEMON SOULS
>Demon's Souls
>FPS
Icameonthemonitorlookathowbigmydickisjesuschrist.png

>> No.16491931

The Tau are made 40k appropriate by their hypocrisy. It's glaring once you actually see it, and it makes them a lot of fun to play with.

I mean look at what their state actually represents.

-Dedicated hyper-imperialistic philosophy
-An incredibly racist society, in which one's station is totally defined by genetics, even within the same species
-Zero interest in the sovereignty of neighbors or in their beliefs or cultural imperatives
-Militant attitude, possessed of a warrior caste
-No compunctions about the use of brutal and overwhelming force to subjugate weaker species
-No compunctions about lying, deceiving and betraying more powerful enemies to steal their territories
-Absolutely no respect for the lives of conquered people beyond their immediate utility.

Theoretically, they're still a morally superior state to the Imperium, but only by OUR moral standards. Ironically, it is their own philosophy that they flaunt at every turn, and that's the clincher. They're building a stratified and racist empire on a mountain of corpses, in the name of egalitarianism.

That's why they're grim and dark. That's why they belong in 40k.

>> No.16491943

>>16491918

Ollanius Pius: The Game

>> No.16491945

>>16491931
Yeah, except I don't play by the ethereal's rules anymore...

>> No.16491950

>>16491878
The best (and most realistic) guardsman game would be...
>drops you in in the middle of a battle
>you're holding a lasgun, fuckin' chaos marines or some shit incoming
>someone yells 'hold the line!'
>you shoot wildly
>guy next to you goes down, dropping autocannon
>you pick it up and shoot even more wildly
>holy crap, you killed one!
>suddenly, chain-axe through the face
But then... the camera zooms up and out, fixing on your body for a couple of seconds to give you time to mourn, then zooms away and drops down... into the viewpoint of another guardsman.
>hold the line, fire wildly, get killed
>rinse and repeat
You could even choose a body to jump into, so that when you get sick of being killed over and over you can be way back with the artillery, or a sniper. If you manage some suitably heroic feats of line-holding you get the chance to be a commissar, a dude who actually gets some armour, or... a leman russ driver.

>> No.16491984

>>16491950
>I would play this too
Dude, why not just play 40K: BATTLEFRONT

>> No.16491986

>>16491950

No, while the rank and file get slaughtered by the dozen, there is story after story of some nameless IG just manning up and stopping whatever despicable force assaults him with his adamantine Power Balls. The IG are known for their heroes, a game would play a bit like Fire Warrior, only harder and with more gratuitous violence.

>> No.16492010

>>16491984

MY MONEY JUST FUCKING GODDAMNED TAKE IT

>> No.16492026

>>16491950
A Commissar is fine too.

>> No.16492028

>>16491950

FUCK YOU!
GIVE ME THAT GAME.
I WILL PAY YOU ANYTHING!
I WANT.

>> No.16492039

>>16491986
Those stories usually involve a named hero, like Straken or Marbo.
In the stories without them, it's space marines that come down and save the day.

>> No.16492048

really guys? do you not know how 40k games go?

>its ohfuckohfuck help us SM orks are attacking IG
>SM comes and turns the tide
>HOLY FUCK SINCE WHEN DI CHAOS GET HERE!!
>dont worry guiz our eldar enemies are here to help

this is the story line of every fucking 40k game, i swear to god

>> No.16492057

>>16492039

Well they're named in the stories, it's kind of weird having a nameless lead in a story like that. I just mean that they're often just basic Guardsmen, and only sometimes higher rank or special in some way. The greatest part of IG fluff is the 'everyman holding the fucking line with two-tonne balls of iron' aspect.

>> No.16492073

>>16492048

Exactly. I want a 'hardcore' FPS based on the IG.

>SHIT THESE GUYS ARE TEN FEET TALL AND COVERED IN HALF A TANK

>FUCK THESE ALIENS ARE FASTER THAN I CAN SEE AND FUCK SHIT UP JUST AS SWIFTLY

>THESE XENO FUCKS CAN SNIPE ME FROM A BAJILLION MILES AWAY I AM SO FUCKED

>ORKS, ORKS EVERYWHERE

>> No.16492093

>>16492048
>Space Hulk: ALL of them
>Chaos Gate
>Final Liberation
>Space Marine
DoW is not all 40k games, guy.

>> No.16492094

A while back /tg/ worked out a hypothetical 40k FPS where you're on a troop transport when its Gellar Field fails/demonic incursion occurs (consequences of this are arguable). You'd fight your way across the ship as discipline breaks down, trying to get to the bridge. Along the way you'd have the chance to resist/give in to various chaos influences, possibly leading you to fall to one of the sides of chaos and opening up different options with different groups you run across. Upon reaching the bridge you could either choose to drop the ship out of warp and hope to find help, or fully deactivate the weakened Gellar Field and make the entire ship a sacrifice to your chosen god.

>> No.16492111

>>16492094

Whether the player character survives or not, the SM would just KILL WITH FIRE anything that came into contact with daemons. It'd make for a canonical but anti-climatic ending. Very grimdark (which would kind of work in the setting).

>> No.16492124

>>16492073
But you'd die really quickly. Unless it was squad based combat with good AIs.

>> No.16492128

>>16492073
This would make an epic game that I would gladly pay money for.

>> No.16492137

>>16492124

40k: Imperial Commando (with that gorgeous Republic Commando AI)

>> No.16492239

>>16491782

Can you really expect a lone guardsman to survive by himself on a wartorn planet?

>> No.16492267

>>16492239

It's a game. It could take a couple of liberties, as long as it were ball-breakingly difficult.

>> No.16492275

>>16492239

Stormtroopers are one step up, but they are still just elite Guardsmen.

Those would work.

>> No.16492294

>>16492239
don't underestimate the power of plot armor

>> No.16492317

Guys.

Hey guys.

LISTEN, GUYS.

What if you are like a IG on mars. MARS RIGHT?
And shit.. like demons suddenly turn up ALL OVER THE PLACE.
You need to find a way to survive, but as the game progresses shit get's worse and you are the only human left in the facility. You start to become very good at slaying countless of incoming demons, so good you start to lose it a bit.
And eventually you end up in the deep underground complexes of fucking MARS, where titan parts are made.
Finally you face the Demon Lord who started it all, enhanced with cybernetics, a cyber demon if you will.
You manage to kill it with all that you got, the only Guardsman left.

The game might seem to be finished, but the big TWIST COMES IN. You find out that YOU ARE THE TRUE DEMON WHO STARTED IT ALL.

OMG GUYS YOU GONNA PAY FOR THIS SHIT?

>> No.16492330

>>16492294
If the tech-priests were to discover plot armor, would they regard such an advancement in defensive technology to be heresy?

>> No.16492346

>>16491061
>not the whole of communism

but is it is still communism no?

also what makes Karl Marx less communistic than Lenin? no matter which one said it they believed in communism.

>> No.16492358

>>16492346
Marx said it, and the fact that it's not all of Communism means that it's not enough to define something as 'Communist'. E.g. a central tenet of Islam is that there is one God, but you can't say 'therefore Muslims are Christian'.

>> No.16492377

>>16491033
>communism
>everyone is equal

Let's see...North Korea, China, USSR. Yep everyone in those countries are/were treated equal huh?

Communism is bullshit. Anyone who actually buys into that system being remotely possible in anything less than a perfect world must be retarded.

>> No.16492407

>>16492358
one could actually say that all Christians are muslims, but heretical ones.

>> No.16492413

>>16492377
Ooooh, an opinion!

>> No.16492464

>>16492377

North Korea is no longer Communist.
The word "Communism" was taken out of all their government-approved texts.
North Korea has never been communist.
Hail Dear Leader.

>> No.16492499

>>16491845
Army of Two: 40th K?

>> No.16492601

>>16492377
JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE CALLS THEMSELVES COMMUNIST DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE.
JUST AS CALLING AMERICA "THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD" DOES NOT MEAN YOUR EDUCATION SYSTEM IS BETTER THAN FINLAND'S.

>> No.16492658

>>16492601

this, although said like a full retard, these people claim to be communists, but they are not, communism is the best , ONLY IF ITS DONE PROPERLY, which it isnt, and it NEVER will be, dont assume nations are commies just cus they say they are

>> No.16492678

>>16492658
>communism is the best

You mean by making hard work and ingenuity utterly irrelevant?

>> No.16492689

>>16492658
communism isn't done right because the people who created it lied to themselves about human nature. That is not PARTICULARLY damning of communism, because so did the people who invented democracy, and modern monarchy.

In fact, the only system that seems to get the results it is attempting to get is fascism, but that comes with an unpleasant helping of murder and ethnic cleansing.

>> No.16492700

>>16492689
>but that comes with an unpleasant helping of murder and ethnic cleansing.

Along with heaping piles of bureaucratic inefficiency, corruption, and a tendency to form unsustainable economies that can't quickly adapt to changing circumstance.

>> No.16492703

>>16492601
Well let's be fair, calling America the best country in the world just makes it the best country in the world.

Finns could all be rocket scientists and they would still be an inferior people. I mean Jeez, Finns? What an example.

Now if you had said like, Belgians, or Spaniards, maybe it would be more convincing.

>> No.16492704

>>16492689

i know, dont get me wrong, im not saying ' huur communism is evil', not anything like that, im jsut saying for it to work EVERYONE has to be willing to give for their community and country

but as you said people are not that way

>> No.16492737

>>16492700
Yes, but those frankly take a back seat to the murdering in my issues with fascism. Also, I wouldn't exactly call it "corruption" when it's basically the plan in the first place.

>> No.16492752

>>16492704
you said it is best if it is done properly, and i pointed out that it basically cannot be done properly, with the subtext that no one really cares how awesome things are in your thought experiment about governments for people who don't have human flaws.

>> No.16492778

>>16492678
THE PROFIT MOTIVE DOES NOT WORK.
STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THIS, ALSO THE FACT THAT GRAD STUDENTS AND POST-DOCS STILL WORK.

FURTHER, MOST PEOPLE WHOSE WORK IS ACTUALLY HARD GET PAID PEANUTS.

>> No.16492783

>>16492703
any group whose cultural identity basically owes it's existence to anti-russian sentiment is Grade-A in my book.

>> No.16492795

>>16490561
>"good guy" race
Tau are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Tau are marvelous. They cause marvels.
Tau are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Tau are glamorous. They project glamour.
Tau are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Tau are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said tau are nice.
tau are bad.
— molested quotem Terry Pratchett made the original one,

>> No.16492804

>>16492703
>Finns could all be rocket scientists and they would still be an inferior people.
>Be finn.
>Okay.jpg
Time for drink

>> No.16492807

>>16492778
>THE PROFIT MOTIVE DOES NOT WORK.

Bullshit.

>STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THIS

I'd like to see those studies..

>ALSO THE FACT THAT GRAD STUDENTS AND POST-DOCS STILL WORK.

Advancement prospects.

>FURTHER, MOST PEOPLE WHOSE WORK IS ACTUALLY HARD GET PAID PEANUTS.

Most people who work hard and get paid peanuts work menial jobs that require no skill what so ever. Regardless of whether this is a result of circumstance or their own stupidity.

>> No.16492873

>>16492778
>rage has no trip

>> No.16492941

>>16492807
GOOGLE MOTHERFUCKER.
IT'S FAIRLY EASY TO FIND, TOOK ME ROUGHLY ONE MINUTE.

ALSO: I'LL LET YOU USE "ADVANCEMENT PROSPECTS" AS WRONG AS IT IS.
LAB WORKERS, RESEARCH ASSISTANTS, SOCIAL WORKERS, PEDAGOGUES, TEACHERS.

>> No.16492966

>>16492873
I like it that way. Certainly doesn't subtract anything

>> No.16492985

>>16492941
>GOOGLE MOTHERFUCKER.
>IT'S FAIRLY EASY TO FIND, TOOK ME ROUGHLY ONE MINUTE.

It's YOUR unsubstantiated statement, back it up or piss off.

>ALSO: I'LL LET YOU USE "ADVANCEMENT PROSPECTS" AS WRONG AS IT IS.
>LAB WORKERS, RESEARCH ASSISTANTS, SOCIAL WORKERS, PEDAGOGUES, TEACHERS.

All of those jobs either present the possibility of advancement in potentially lucrative fields or easy to maintain employment, there's also no accounting for the idealistic minority. Most people pursue good wages, stability of employment, and ease in varying orders of preference for employment. Also, you said teacher twice.

>> No.16493000

>>16492985
To be fair, the statement that the profit motive DOES work is ALSO unsubstantiated.

>> No.16493020

>>16493000
To be entirely fair, you are correct. But one needs only look at the many things that have been done in the name of profit to realize that it's an important element of society. I'm no dupe that believes capitalism is sunshine and roses that will result in everyone driving fart powered supercars in a libertarian paradise. I'm well aware that it often simply results in people using underhanded methods and sheer financial momentum to keep competitors down. I just have no faith in the prospects of a society where doing the bare minimum nets you the same standard of living as putting in 110%.

>> No.16493069

>>16493020
why does linux exist

>> No.16493083

>>16491412
>>16490866
Oooo, informed opinions. Thanks.

>>16492499
That'd work, I'm in.

>> No.16493086

>>16493069
Butthurt nerds. But I see your point. Profit isn't the only possible motivation to advance something, and in retrospect I didn't mean to give that impression. I just feel that it's one of the most effective.

>> No.16493125

>The Greater Good is as close as you can get to functional, theoretical Communism

No. Go away.

>> No.16493140

>>16493125
i could find the perfect reaction image, or craft the perfect comeback, but it is three in the morning so i am just going to fall back on ye olde standby

No U

>> No.16493215

Could someone explain the Soviet Union to me?

I've recently taken an interest in that "WW2" because of how often you guys talk about it, and a friend of mine who plays the tabletop game was explaining the factions to me today. I picked up on the basics of it. The Americans praise the capitalism and purge Nazis and Communists, the British are backstabbing colonial pricks, the Japanese are basically the Nippon from Warhammer Fantasy Battles but in modern age, the Nazis are totalitarian nuts that want to destroy everything, etc...

But something just felt a bit off about how he described the Soviet Union. A peaceful, diplomatic state that wants to create a utopia society and only fight because other powers attack them? At least that's what it sounded like. It almost made them seem like the "good guy" country, which just felt out of place considering what else I've heard about the setting while browsing here. In the grim darkness of the 1940s, isn't there only war?

I was just hoping you guys could maybe clear this one up for me. Thanks in advance.

>> No.16493769

Well you see OP, I-

>*191 posts and 28 image replies omitted*

>....

>> No.16493974

>>16492407
>one could actually say that all Christians are muslims, but heretical ones.
The other way around. Islam arose after Christianity, and Muhammad had some contact with Nestorian missionaries in his youth. Jewish and Christian religion was initially considered to be "obsolete ancestor" of Islam, which is why they weren't converted forcibly.

>> No.16494412

>>16492317
IG aren't culled from Forge Worlds. The AdMech have their own IG force, the Skitarii. They're like the IG but with better equipment, and bionics.

>>
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