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16300366 No.16300366 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What drives people to create Mary Sues?

Is it just lack of imagination or is there more to it?

>> No.16300389

Mary sues are fun to create and roleplay as.

Who wants to create a character who is lacking and has weaknesses?

>> No.16300410

Well, when I did it, I didn't know I was doing it. So ignorance.

Fulfillment. People disliked how a setting is playing out and want to change it radically.

They may do it for satire or parody, like the original Sue or my Emperasque.

Self-insertion. They're so lonely or stubborn that they can't think a story is complete without them.

Etc. It doesn't boil down to a single cause.

>> No.16300437

Maybe it has something to do with immaturity.

Most the times people, including myself, create mary sue characters when they are quite a bit younger and just starting out into roleplaying.

You're more interested in just being awesome and great as opposed to anything to do with story/narrative/whatever. But eventually, as people develop and grow they start to see this one dimension of 'being too awesome and loved by everyone' and eventually branch out into what is generally considered to be 'higher quality' shit.

Chances are, if you're dealing with someone that makes a mary sue, they are infantile in mind, or are just brand new to the whole concept of roleplaying/storybuilding/etc and just don't know any better.

>> No.16300463

>>16300366
self fulfilling fantasy

>> No.16300491

>>16300437
People like this poster are why face punching was invented. I'm not saying you should always punch one of them in the face, but given the chance, give a bitch a smack.

>> No.16300497
File: 8 KB, 200x250, 1243958377267.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16300497

Some of us are just born with that gift.

>> No.16300533

>>16300491

I'd say he pretty much nailed it. What's your problem?
>his character is a sue, I'm 12 and what is this

Oh, I see. Carry on.

>> No.16300555

If a character has mary sue traits (reincarnation of a god, superpowers in a low power world, gets through a difficult situation without much trouble)

Can it be counterbalanced with flaws? (bad social skills, lack of critcal thinking skills, being used as a superlackey for the commander, instead of taking charge)

In my own universe, this is a character of mine. They are fantastic at combat, but hindered in social situations. She has no romances, nor well known major goals, going where the tide takes her.

What do you think, /tg/?

>> No.16300591

>>16300533
I'd say that's because you and he are the same people so of course you think he nailed it. Pretentious little gits usually think all their opinions are completely right.

To anyone with one of these in your FLGS Remember: punch a bitch now and spare yourself the annoyance.

>> No.16300625

>>16300591
Arguing that someone is someone on a board where the default name is Anonymous is rather sad. If it is him let him self inflate his ego otherwise you make yourself about to be a dick

>> No.16300631

Marry sue is not a thing. It's a meaningless label that gets applied to poorly written characters.

A good writer can make an uber powerful flawless character and still have it be believable and compelling.
Additionally a bad writer can make a level 1 commoner and have it be a bland self insert.

that said, a bad writer will more often pick the first option and fail at it. For reasons other posters have detailed.

>> No.16300637

>>16300625
Agreed.
>>16300591
This guy is starting to sound like a dick flapping in the wind, butthurt about people dissing mary sue creators.

>> No.16300648

Probably in the same vein as Imaginary Friends. Just making up the most perfect character ever, and the Sue-Makers are fascinated with their imaginary hero/superkawaiidemonangel. That's why they want nothing to happen to them, ever. They're their favorite creation, their perfectly little toy or imaginary friend they made up and love and cherish. DO NOT STEAL!

>> No.16300669
File: 66 KB, 103x83, 1274060021116.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16300669

>ask /tg/ to determine how good or bad my character is

>just people complaining about who is samefagging or not

okay.png

>> No.16300711

>>16300625
It's more of a public service announcement or the emergancy broadcast system of pretentious gits. it's a plan of action for the masses.

So in case of a pretentious git like the one depicted above please deliver facial beatings to them as soon as possible. Dreadsocking or some other suitable means of administering said smacking is acceptable.

>> No.16300772

Fa/tg/uys arguing aside, I always thought sues were created by ignorance/lack of experience, or because sometimes it's fun to have a satirical game with sues.

Most people unintentionally make sues when they were young and stupid, but with time you learn not to, or you learn how to do it in such a way that it becomes more comical than annoying.

>> No.16300795

>>16300631
>uber powerful
Yes, good writers can make those work. I've seen it done.
>flawless
Never seen that work.

>> No.16300815

>>16300631

Flaws are what make characters interesting. They create conflict, raise questions, and cause reactions.

"Flawless" characters are boring and predictable. Characters that believe they are flawless, are flawed by default.

>> No.16300848
File: 14 KB, 300x212, 1315438606503.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16300848

>>16300815
thus making them flawed and therefore not mary sues?

>> No.16300867

Small penis or not being at peace with their fatness.

>> No.16300868

>>16300848

There's a huge difference between a flawless character, and a character that believes it is flawless.

A mary sue would be a character the author tried to make capable of anything, better than everyone, and hated by no one. Often some super android in sci-fi. It's a coy way of hand-waving the author's inability to make them converse like a reasonable person.

A character that believes it is flawless is likely a super villian of some sort trying to become a god.

>> No.16300885

Youthful stupidity. When I started roleplaying, everybody there was also about 13-16, so everybody wanted to duplicate their favorite anime characters. I personally played a character based off the necromancer from Diablo 2.

As I (and the different people I roleplayed with) grew older, there came a certain annoyance with other people saying "no, fuck you, I don't react to your shit", and it got replaced with "Always winning is boring as balls".

In short, Mary-Sues are easy to copy and paste, and horribly easy to roleplay.

>>16300711
So, what, your social interactions are based off the faggots at a gaming store? Huh, no wonder you don't get what it means to be an adult.

>> No.16300897

>>16300868

You mean all of my PCs?

>> No.16300902
File: 13 KB, 251x328, Bella_Swan[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16300902

A mary sue doesn't have to be uber powerful or flawless, just an idealized self insert that the plot revolves around.

>> No.16300923

I don't think there is one real definition of Mary-Sue.

At least, not that I know of. You hear so many of them anyways.

>> No.16300933

>>16300897

Mean what? I'm just talking about characters.

I don't know anything about your PCs.

>> No.16300936

>>16300923
If it fits the original Mary Sue from A Trekkie's Tale, then it's the real definition.

>> No.16300938

>>16300902
>>16300868

Both entirely legit ways to spot a mary sue.

>> No.16300966

>>16300491

Disregard this fucknugget, >>16300437 hit the nail on the fucking head. Only know two people who make like Mary Sue characters and both are the most immature and impatient people I know.

>> No.16300985
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16300985

>>16300591

LMAO pic related

>> No.16301048

>>16300815
I just wish this approach didn't spawn the occasional twat who takes it in the opposite direction and creates nothing but flat, brooding, amoral, vaguely psychotic human shitstains as characters.

>> No.16301293

>>16300868
What about a character that's:

- superior to everybody in one aspect but average in all others
- hated by everybody without exception
- is driven by a compulsion to kill and is portrayed as somebody who deserves to be treated like shit for it

How would that character do?

>> No.16301405

>>16301293
You mean a min/maxing powergamer who roleplays his dumped Cha score?

>> No.16301509

>>16301293
A character like that sounds obnoxious.

>> No.16301567

>>16301293
>>16301509
>>16301405
Sounds like a professional. Well the first two could apply to any profession from an accountant to plumber. The last one puts it in line with someone in the military with any MOS other than infantryman. Sniper. Or fighter pilot. Or tank gunner.

>> No.16301579

The real mark of a Mary Sue is how their universe bends over backwards to accommodate them. Skills, abilities, awards, and prestigious accomplishments, all rack up for the true Sue with little to no effort on his/her part. These skills usually come with no trade-offs, like they do in real life. Some people are great athletes, but they spend their whole lives preparing and training to compete on the Olympic level. Some people are really smart, but they spend all their time reading, studying, and learning.
Look at Eragon: motherfucker becomes some kind of great swordsman in like four months, learns to read even faster, learns magic pretty much completely in a summer, and generally is given everything he wants.

>> No.16301589

I don't believe for a second that a flaw justifies additional powers or leeway unless the flaw is on the power itself. One of my D&D characters is a barbarian who is strong and intelligent, but she is completely mute. Another of my more freeform roleplay characters is completely blind, but she is just about as dangerous as your average 15 year old girl would normally be sans eyesight. Neither of them have incredible gimmicks.

>> No.16301609
File: 14 KB, 300x300, 1292973877898.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16301609

>>16301589
>freeform roleplay

>> No.16301617

escapism fantasy.

>> No.16301623

>>16301293
>driven by a compulsion to kill
This right here is stupid.
No one does things because they were "driven by a compulsion."
Come up with a real reason for hwy your character kills people. Is he just a psychopath who enjoys killing for the feelings of control and power it gives him because he was abused as a kid? Is he a pragmatic mercenary who uses the gold he earns as a shield to the harm he does? Is he a sincere believer in a religion (or cult) that advocates absolute destruction of non-believers?

>> No.16301640

>>16301623
>Serial killers, how do they work?

>> No.16301676

In writing/movies/shows, I'd say it's a question of how much the surrounding universe bends over and facilitates the character. Is the character nigh-universally loved, even if they're kind of a jerk? Things just happen for the character without much/any effort? It's stuff like that. Basically, unrealistic interactions with their surrounding world are good hallmarks of a Sue, regardless of how the character is described (beautiful, unattractive, etc.).

>> No.16301682

>>16301640
There has been too much psychological research on serial killers and their motivations to just spout off some bullshit about compulsions. That's just lazy writing.

>> No.16301710
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16301710

>>16300555
Being a sue can not be always counterbalanced with flaws.

As most of the flaws can make a character specialsnowflakes if you implement them wrong.
and no, social flaws are not a good choice if you think your character is a sue.

Half of the annoying stuff of a sue come from his flaws, like harry potter being orphan, like having a scar on his forehead with a special shape, like being followed by a lich... etc.

And worse is when you see social flaws. "he is stupid/shy/antisocial... but everybody loves him"

also sorry for the bad english.

>> No.16301752

>>16301710
There's a difference between flaws and marks, or other things. A flaw is a legitimate detriment or something else. Someone can be socially awkward and have close friendships, granted, but they're also going to have problems with new people. A scar doesn't count as a flaw. If Harry had to walk with a limp his entire life because of being wounded as a baby, THAT would constitute a flaw and give him a legitimate reason to love the feeling of freedom that comes with flying on a broomstick.

Basically there's mental and physical flaws, but for it to be a flaw it has to detrimental. Otherwise it's just a character QUIRK or feature.

>> No.16301775

>>16300591
why don't you explain why he is wrong, because he seems right.
And frankly, if you don't explain it in the both posts you did, sadly you're probably a 12 year old.

>> No.16301803

>>16301752
depending on the game a scar is a flaw:

-People can identify you easily, for someone like harry with lots of enemies this is bad.
-People to some extent are supposed to be impressed in a bad way with a scar. Though for some reason for harry this does not happen perhaps because it's small, it is still a minor disfiguration.

>> No.16301890
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16301890

>>16301803
If anything, scars are far more on the achievement side, and are just visuals to show how super fearless hardcore team deathmatch someone is. Like you said before, if it was something that hampers performance, then it could be something seen as a flaw. Hell, even if it's just a psychological effect, like that feeling of a powerful hero feeling vulnerable the moment he recieved the scar, that would work out nicely if done with moderation

>> No.16304167

>>16301682
So uncontrollable urges are lazy writing, even though it's possible in real life.

>> No.16304232

I think, from experience, that the whole 'mary sue' syndrome is part and parcel of the average person's growth while learning about cooperative storytelling and roleplay.

See, the problem is most people come into RPG's with certain expectations. Those are that, for the most part, they expect to be main characters.As such, in most stories, they have either great, unique powers, or are idealized/perfect in certain way.It stems from the unspoken understanding that for some reason, their character should for some reason be the center of attraction.

Eventually, people realize that cooperative storytelling requires you to pull back. Not everyone can or should be X Legendary person reborn, or the chosen one of a prophecy, or this amazing badass that makes everyone weak in comparison.

I always tell newcomers to think of the Ryu example.Look at Ryu from Street Fighter. He's a martial arts expert, amazingly skilled,and possesses abilities far beyond human skill, and even above his average peer. But then look at his flaws.

He's average looking, even while having great muscles.
He's socially awkward, even perhaps stunted.
He's a hermit, and has little, to no understanding of the modern world.
He's technologically incompetent.
He's single minded and prone to flights of travel, even when offered a chance to stay in somewhere where he's wanted.

All those things- those negatives- are precisely that. Negatives.They are not 'positives in disguise' or not explored- they are part of his character just as much as the good parts.

In time, people realize what I mean, and everyone stops making Drizzit Clones.

>> No.16304354

I find it terribly ironic that people complain about 'mary sue' characters, when they play them all the time.

For the most part, people don't even see it. Every character we play in a fantasy setting is an aspect of ourselves, doing stuff we can never do... this is what makes it fun.

If you want an example of a true 'non' mary sue, look at spiderman.

His life is one horrible situation after another, without the benefit of huge gobs of money to keep him warm at night. Everyone he loves leaves him or dies horribly. What is worse, is that his powers fail to protect him against bullets (which for some reason, his foes almost never freakin' use)

It is inevitable that you all play Mary Sue's, however, the trick is to not shove it down the throat of the other players.

>> No.16304457

>>16304232
Drizz't been kind of fucked over lately, though.

He just spent 70 years searching for a mythical city and lost the remainder of his surviving friends in the process.

>> No.16304603

>>16304167
People don't just have compulsions for no reason, idiot.

>> No.16304640

>boring as fuck guy wants to post to /tg/
>has absolutely nothing worth talking about
>Hmm, What should I talk about?
>AHAH Mary Sues
>Hey guys, why do?

short answer: It's what they're used to


So Babby plays video games all his/her life where their character is the do-no-wrong, best-at-everything immortal superprotagonist who can be a master swordsman while maxing out his super killy death spell and shooting an apple off a man's head from 800 yards. Mix this experience with the fact that they don't exactly excel at life and use video games to forget that they're a failure and you've got good old Mary Sue, who lifts the hearts of all people, looks so beautiful but deadly at the same time with a sword that is psychically controlled and can slice a man in twain at the mere thought of it.

I have 2 would-be Mary Sues at my table, I just straight out tell them to leave their inferiority complex and daddy issues off the table.

>> No.16304664
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16304664

Probably the same reason someone let mutants into the Inquisition

>> No.16304685
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16304685

IMO To counteract the effects of creating a Mary Sue, one must, before putting pen to paper, take two pills of "Give them human wants". No one sane wakes up and says "I want to simply be the baddest motherfucker on Sesame Street"

Also, seems like a LOT of you favor "Oh, well, I'll make my character socially inept in favor of combat skills...trololol I'll call this my detriment and not be a Mary-Sue RITEGUIEZ?" When we all (Read: DMs) know you only do that to break things and not have to think.

>> No.16304733
File: 245 KB, 617x865, adm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16304733

>>16304664
or babies in the Admech

>> No.16304738

>>16300591
Start learning how to check for samefags and stop being such a butthurt underage.

Sooner or later you'll too realize, that your Mary Sue Persona isn't that great to roleplay with.

>> No.16305002

>>16300366

Fear.

Fear of failing, fear of embarrassment, fear of being shunned, fear of being unable to escape. All of which most fa/tg/uys are particularly susceptible to.

Mary Sues never fail, cannot be embarrassed about anything since it'll always be 'just as planned,' and the universe revolves around them so they'll always have lots of adoring friends and admirers. It's also a clear escape from whatever is bothering the offender.

Never mind that the Mary Sue is repulsive in reality, and may or may not necessarily be 'fun to play as'; the drive to create one comes from fear.

>captcha: THE risking

Yeah, that's what Mary Sues DON'T do, as they're incapable of failing.

>> No.16305033
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16305033

>>16300491
>>16300591
>You're wrong!
>Doesn't explain why that person is wrong
STOP POSTING IF YOU AREN'T GOING TO DEFEND YOUR GODDAMN POSITION YOU ASSJACK

>> No.16305053

>>16304685

>No one sane wakes up and says "I want to simply be the baddest motherfucker on Sesame Street"

I've woken up thinking that before...

>> No.16305113

Because they are much more fun to emulate in games or media than in real life.

Nobody wants to be friends with a Mary Sue in real life. You have two guys. One was born into a wealthy family, is handsome, intelligent, physically gifted, never had to work a day in his life, doesn't pay his own bills, always does something right the first time he ever tries it, never suffers from hardships or accidents, and always, always gets whatever girl he smiles his gorgeous pearly whites at.

Fuck that guy.

Guy number two, grew up poor, got picked on in school, went to prom alone, got fired/laid off due to budgets from at least half of the jobs he's ever had, struggled in school/college (not necessarily because he was unintelligent, he just usually had other stressful events distracting him), and isn't the picture of perfect health. He smokes and drinks. His facial hair is kinda scraggly. He laughs at inappropriate times/statements/gestures. He's most likely single, and not by his choosing.

Guy number two is either you or a friend of yours. Why? Because he's a real person, who has been a part of the real world. Mary Sues live in a quasi-ethereal state, barely in contact with the world. They never seem to receive negative effects or have anything just "not work out" for them. They absolutely cannot into reality, whereas the second guy has been around, had some knocks, and you can connect with him, because at some point you have had the same experiences.

That's why we hate Mary Sues, but continue to have them created/shoved at us. We all want to be them at some level, even though we despise them.

>> No.16305159

>>16305113
>Guy 2
Fuck you, are you watching me?

>> No.16305170

>>16305113

You're a social pariah, aren't you?

You're friends with guy 1 because he gets you cool shit, into the best parties, and if he's not a dick and you're not skeletor, some overflow pussy.

Guy two sounds like he has a shitton of baggage I don't care to listen to.

Real people don't have to be the dregs of society. Real people can be average, have nothing tragic happen to them, work or don't because of something in their past, and so on.

Why would I want to be friends with someone that smokes and drinks, has no job, and has a history of being poor? Not to mention socially awkward. If I wanted someone to cry to, I'd cry to a hooker. At least I don't have to listen to her bullshit after I give her twenty bucks or feel obligated to buy her lunch because she's "a little light this week"

>> No.16305199

>>16305170
>You're friends with guy 1 because he gets you cool shit, into the best parties, and if he's not a dick and you're not skeletor, some overflow pussy.
>friends with someone superior because you can feed off the scraps

BEEEEEEEEETAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAS

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

>> No.16305252

>>16305170

Tone down your madness a bit there, lad. "Real" people have just as much bad as good happen to them. Sure, Guy number two has had it rough, but it's not all bad. He has real friends that both depend on him and that he can depend on. He may not be entirely healthy/fit, but he doesn't have cancer/AIDS/STD's. And, he's not black.

So, really, he has just as much going for him as not.

I think you're just mad at something.

>> No.16305270

>>16305170
are you even joking?
If you find a guy that looks like guy1...
you need to go deeper.
you'll find the memories of his failures, his moments of happiness, the hopes and plans for the future.
you will also find that some of the things you're struggling for, he sees as part of his normal life.
that's what makes him an hated guy1, but that's not enough to make him a soulless mary sue, so in contact with the universe that it bends over backward for her.

>> No.16305271

>>16305170
>friends with guy 1 because he gets you cool shit, into the best parties...
>dregs of society

Looks like we know which one you are, eh?

>> No.16305294

Guy two does not sound that great to be around. And no its bullshit to claim people who have not had serious set backs are not 'real people'

>> No.16305310

>>16305170
Guy 2 is basically what the average person is like, some just manage to hide it better.

>> No.16305317
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16305317

>>16305113
>Fuck that guy.

>> No.16305349

So you guys think people with easy lives are bad people? Good to know I guess.

Talk all you want, but if Guy 1 rolls up in a BMW inviting you to a Victoria's Secret party, are you really going to get in Guy 2's Datsun to go back to his place and watch Terminator?

Fuck off.

>> No.16305364
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16305364

>>16300366
...How can you not know the answer?

Self-insertion is wish fulfillment, and nothing more.

>I wish I was pretty and I lived in the magic world of <insert series> and everyone loved me because I was the best at magic/technology/etc

>> No.16305365

>>16305349

Because you totally drive a BMW and go to Victoria's Secret parties.

Try harder.

>> No.16305369

Wish fulfilment.

Furthermore, one guy's "awesome" is another guy's "fuckin' stupid."

>> No.16305383

>>16305365

When did I say I was Guy 1? Show me when. It's called an example and I was using it to illustrate my point that you guys are hipster douchebags who think being poor is cool.

>> No.16305394

>>16305383
I don't know about you but the sooner I graduate uni and leave the working class the better.

>> No.16305421

>>16305394

>Implying I was ever a part of the working class

Perhaps I should have said "think being poor makes you a better person" because that's much more relevant to the topic at hand. I have quite a few friends who moved out right after school and have lived in poverty for the past few years because they think it'll give them character or some shit. Pisses me off.

>> No.16305438

>>16305310
>>16305271
>>16305270
>>16305252
>>16305199

You guys have a pretty simple idea of what "friendship" is.

The value of a person is not in their background, but in their personality. For all we know, Guy 2 is a good guy, and holy shit, Guy 1 is too. Just because Guy 1 has a lot going for him, doesn't make him a piece of shit, and to refuse his friendship because things come easy to him is just retarded.

You can go be "alpha" with the poor guy. Since evidently, making reasonable, intelligent comparisons is "beta". And Guy 2 doesn't represent average as described. It may be average if you're white trash. But the average person holds a job they hate and is of moderate health, and came from a middle class home with nothing really traumatic happening to them.

What gives you the impression that scalding your cock with a hot iron makes you more of a person? I'll chill at the starbucks across the street with Guy 1, while you get a "real friend".

tl;dr: Friendship is for more complex than having them on your facebook/google+(for the hipsters) profile

>> No.16305445

>>16304733

What sick man allows babies into the hallowed Adeptus Mechanicus?!

>> No.16305456

>>16305438

>Google+
>Hipster
>implying Google+ isn't loads better than Facebook.

I use both, but even an idiot can see Google+ is better.

>> No.16305492

>>16305456

What makes one social network better than the other? The people on it. And everyone I know has a facebook. Only a handful have moved to Google+.

More importantly, I don't give a damn. I use facebook once a week. And I say "use" with a very loose "it's on my bookmarks tab so I click it" definition.

>> No.16305497
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16305497

...of love.

>> No.16305513

>>16305438
>Just because Guy 1 has a lot going for him, doesn't make him a piece of shit,
It kind of does. Human beings, psychologically speaking, don't notice absolute states, they notice change. A person who's spent their whole life getting whatever they want isn't going to appreciate things as much as a person who's had nothing; if they have a million friends, there's no reason for them to appreciate you. It's just plain fact.

>> No.16305519
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16305519

>>16305113
I dislike people like you. Someone doing well doesn't mean you should hate them. Yes, the world is unfair, but being bitter doesn't change anything.

>> No.16305525

>>16305513

>plain fact
>spouts nonsense opinion

>> No.16305580

>>16305513
>A person who's spent their whole life getting whatever they want isn't going to appreciate things as much as a person who's had nothing;

I think every member of AA kinda shits on your little armchair hypothesis.

Nice try though. Newsflash: Poor people can be flaky douchebags too, and it's not uncommon either.

>> No.16306113

>>16300366

>life is boring
>gaming lets you be awesome.

Taadaa! The Konami Code for why people game.

>> No.16307676
File: 164 KB, 479x640, expert cirno.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16307676

>Mary Sues

Lack of understanding that the determined struggle of the imperfect man is more special, noteworthy, and commendable then somebody who has already achieved perfection. This is a symptom of youthful inexperience and associated immaturity.

You can see this lack of understanding in everything such people do. Putting women on pedestals and thinking that the best lover possible has no flaws is another symptom (the extreme end of this spectrum is the MAI WAIFU guys who actually try to fall in love with imaginary characters because real women could never possibly match their perfect fantasy woman.)

>> No.16307686
File: 95 KB, 592x358, gazeebo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16307686

>>16307676

A wise man once said to me, "love is insanity, because we love people BECAUSE of their flaws, not in spite of them." This is perhaps the most basic, essential lesson that defines the transition from boy to man; a most fundamental insight into the human condition. And a very similar lesson applies to the characters we admire and love: we love them because of their flaws, not in spite of them. And part of the celebration of humanity is how our "flaws" aid and improve us as much as they hold us back. We are not Vulcans, we are not perfectly logical. While we can easily use logic and conceive of a perfectly logical being, we ourselves are emotional, primal creatures and, at the end of the day, that's what makes each one of us unique and novel. Logic is mathematics; same input, same results - for all. Emotion is a vast sea of possibilities and clashes; it's dynamic and exciting.

The immature man doesn't understand this, which is why a defining feature of the Mary Sue is how they're Always Right; either incapable of making mistakes or taking a single unrighteous act, or simply being lauded as perfect by all no matter how heinous their acts.

They don't understand that the stubberon, cranky, grumpy Guard Captain that still manages to save the day no matter what is far more interesting; because his flaws make him an engaging, disruptive force in the world, and because he represents the essential struggle of humanity: he must triumph over himself before he can triumph over external threats.

>> No.16308323

Egocentrism I think. The main attitude in mary-sues is I don't want to lose and its all about me.

Some of my players made mary-sues and even I have been guilty of creating mary-sue NPCs. What I found in common is that we like to win in easy mode. Its basically "I can do waht I want" without assuming consequences.

>> No.16308554

>>16307686
People say this a lot, but I've yet to see anyone actually back it up with evidence.

I suppose it's just another one of those assertions that people think is so deep there's no point actually thinking about it.

>> No.16308578

>>16305438
But really though, the question is if Guy 1 actually wants to be friends with you.

>> No.16308607

Look me in the eyes and tell me honestly that you've never had fun switching on God-Mode and fucking shit up. That's the core of it. People want to be "awesome".

There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is when people are never willing to try anything else.

>> No.16308635
File: 76 KB, 239x239, 1312180981463.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16308635

>>16307686
>>16307676
+1
I like you

>> No.16308669

People like winners. A Mary Sue can't lose by design.

>> No.16308849
File: 17 KB, 354x256, skeletorangry.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
16308849

>>16305170
> he gets you cool shit, and if he's not a dick and you're not skeletor, some overflow pussy.

God FUCKING dammit, this ALWAYS happens! You got my hopes up, you sadistic bastard.

And stop reading this in my voice!

>> No.16308971

>>16308669
I think this is what you were getting at, but just to expound:

Someone who struggles, both with their own flaws and external forces, and comes out on top is admirable to us. Someone who never had a chance of losing is boring and contemptible. Basically, they're cheating. And it cheapens the struggle.

>> No.16309286

>>16308971
Ah, so it's because they didn't really earn their victory and/or their power.

>> No.16309432

>>16308849
Ha, didn't read that in his voice.

>> No.16309558

>>16308971
Maybe it's just because I've heard it far too many times in my life, but this reasoning annoys me.
Some people have natural talents. Some people have the ability to avoid trouble. It's a fact of life. It's no reason to hate people.

Usain Bolt is the fastest man on Earth right now, and yet he still lives a relatively normal life. He eats chicken nuggets and goes out drinking. That is no reason to hate him.

>> No.16309644

>>16309558
It's because the people who have natural talent and are successful actually work and sweat for their riches. Even Usain Bolt had to endure many hours of training to become that fast. He's earned the right to showboat and slack a little through that effort.

>> No.16310505

>>16309558

As has already been said, Bolt didn't just put in a month at the track to get where he is. He worked for it, and earned it. Sure, he has potential that quite a few others (me included) don't have, but that's not a guaranteed success. It still took effort.

Mary Sues don't...really exist in real life. But if one were to...they'd be given everything on a silver platter like Paris Hilton, only instead of being despised and ridiculed as a vapid cunt she'd be loved far and wide for her beauty and patience with harassment by the vicious police.

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