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[ERROR] No.16254634 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

If the Custodians fought some Space Marines, would they easily win? I only ask because apparently they're trained as bodyguards and not soldiers.

>> No.16254655

One on one a custodian will win every time. in groups the space marines would win. Custodes work alone and space marines fight as a unit.

>> No.16254683

>bodyguards

Yeah, of the MOTHERFUCKING EMPEROR. We're talking about dudes that have experience from back before any space marine chapters were even founded. Custodes would wreck Astartes easily.

>> No.16254758

>>16254683
I don't know. I mean, back in the Heresy, when the Custodes still went to war, they would have ripped the shit out of any Space Marine to come their way. But they haven't left the Emperor's side for 10,000 years, and skills do get rusty...

>> No.16254775

>>16254758
10,000 years of nothing but alternating between guarding and training. Lots and lots of training.

>> No.16254788

The Thousand Sons killed a few of them.

>> No.16254794

Which sort of Space Marines are we talking about?

Normal, regular space marines?

Or stupid fucked up mary-sues that Matt Ward fanwanked to death Space Marines?

>> No.16254804

>>16254634
Big E > Primarchs > Custodes > Grey Knights > Astartes > Stormtroopers > Guardsmen > PDF > Militia

Or so I understand it as that

>> No.16254810

>>16254775
True. And they are to Astartes what Astartes are to Guardsmen. It's just that it IS training, and not actual war. But, hey, who knows what nifty Mechanicus holodeck shit they have for training rooms.

>> No.16254826

>>16254794
Easy. None of the above. The Custodes are the motherfucking Adeptus Custodes, created to be the Emperor's personal bodyguards and shock troops.

>> No.16254827

Custodes train with Blood Games. They're pretty fucking brutal.

>> No.16254830

Robutte Guilleman demanded to see the emperor once, when he wasn't being allowed to. The two custodes guarding the Emperor's room pretty much said "try it". Rowboat Girlyman backed the fuck off.

That gives a decent idea of powerlevel. A PRIMARCH was scared of them

>> No.16254833

>>16254826
>>16254794
DOH. Reading comprehension fail. I is sorry.

>> No.16254837

>>16254830
source?

reading about an ultrasmurf being told to gtfo would be interesting

>> No.16254847

>>16254758
>>16254775
>>16254826
doesn't the space marine modification make them live forever? Normally space marine doesn't last a 1000 years due to combat but it seems like most of the custodian would have been alive during the HH

>> No.16254875

They tend not to wear armor, and use a spear that is roughly equivalent to a lasgun/cc weapon.

>> No.16254890

>>16254875
They don't wear armour because they're tough enough to not need it. And their spear has a bolter on it.

>> No.16254893

>>16254634
one on one a Custodes, 1 Custodes vs. 10 Space Marines? Possibly Space Marines but with heavy casualties.

It depends on a number of things: What special black boxes the emperor put into his personal body guards that make them actually timeless, Custodes don't die from old age like space marines, the Custodes commander who served the emperor is still a high lord of terra to my knowledge. For all we know they have dark age tech inside them the likes of which the mechanicus would cream over: personal void shields, nano-tech regenerators, and who knows what else.

But honestly it all boils down to who is writing the book about what.

If it is a custodes book, then it will be filled with page after page of a single custodes dancing between chainswords to lop the head off of a library right before slashing several battle brothers in half.

If it is a space marine book, then it will talk about how a custodes cuts though several space marines in front of the MC of the book, only to have the MC challenge the custodes to a duel, which is long and drawn out, but ends with the MC of the book winning by a thin margin.

>> No.16254899

>>16254830
I know Constantine Valdor beat Horus in a sparring match. Custodes are fucking brutal.

>> No.16254919

>doesn't the space marine modification make them live forever?

I don't think so. The old Blood Angels codex makes mention of them living far longer than normal marines (to play up the whole vampire thing). Not sure if it stuck around in the new codex, but it seems to imply they have a lifespan.

>> No.16254934

>>16254875
They don't wear armor unless they are actually going into combat, but even then they could take on a space marine... which makes me wonder if they don't have internal force field devices.

Also their tanks are hover tanks, their dreadnoughts make other dreadnoughts look like tau melee battle suits, and their weapons are pretty damn powerful.

They killed about 6 orks per-second in a battle. 300 custodes vs something like 2 million Orks and the custodes won in record time with only 3 casualties, whose names were inscribed upon the emperor's breastplate so they would never be forgotten.

>> No.16254937

>>16254893

Most of what we know about Custodes in action is in The First Heretic. Outnumbered by Possessed Chaos Space Marines, they still manage to take down about half their opponents before they're overwhelmed and slaughtered.

Also, one Custodes killed a Chapter Master, and made a fair attempt to arrest Lorgar.

>> No.16254953

What exactly makes a Custodian so strong? Are they psykers? Are they immune to fucking bullets or something? Being really, really old and having better geneseeds can only go so far.

>> No.16254958

>>16254758
But the thing is, they're not just training. That hole in the warp Magnus ripped open, causing daemons to pour out into the throne room? That's still open. And the Custodes are still holding the line, beating the shit out of any daemon that thinks they're man enough to try to start something

>> No.16254963

>>16254937
Yeah, pretty much that. If the story needs that the custodes should fail, then fail they shall. Otherwise they kick ass.

Note that to my knowledge, this was the first time anyone had ever fought possessed space marines before, so they went against a huge number of foes that they had never fought against, and killed most of them before succumbing to plot narrative.

>> No.16254973

>>16254919
They live longer on average. The thing is, all space marines are biologically immortal, immune to aging. They just killed in battle before it gets advanced enough to be really old.

>> No.16254991

>>16254953

In 40k your age is essentially your power level.

>> No.16255005

>>16254953
Spess Mehreens are descended from the Primarchs. Custodes are descended from the Emprah. Each Custode is essentially an almost-primarch. And there's a lot more Custodes than there are primarchs.

>> No.16255006

>>16254958
>beating the shit out of any daemon that thinks they're man enough to try to start something
>man enough to try to start something

oh dear I had a brief mental image of the daemons being called beta faggots who were too pussy to do anything

>> No.16255011

>>16254937

but in all fairness, that was Lorgar. who by his own words admitted he isn't a fighter.

>> No.16255019

>>16254953
from what we can tell, the custodes were made with the emperor's own genes as opposed to space marine primarch genes.

They also are individually created.

They don't age, unlike space marines who age slowly but do die.

They are much faster and stronger than space marines, there are records of custodes beating primarchs, and the custodes actually helped teach and train many of the primarchs in fighting.

The primarchs were not afraid of the custodes, but they were wary of them, something that could not be said for anything else in the universe except perhaps chaos itself.

Custodes seem to not need to wear power armor to do the same things that space marines can do in power armor.

They have in one occasion been described as an "awe inspiring engine of death and carnage" by space marines that fought near them. I forget which HH novel includes this description but someone in this thread should.

>> No.16255027

>>16254991
by your logic, Ciaphas Cain is stronger than a Terminator marine.

>> No.16255031

>>16254958
I can picture that- Big ass rip in space-time, a bunch of daemons looking through from one side, and a single Custodes sitting on a folding chair saying "You want to start some shit?"

>> No.16255046

>Guys that guard the emperor.

Ok well assuming you kill one.

You realise these guys would have contacts in really high places right?

You'd probably piss off some high lord of Terra who'd then send assassins after you.

>> No.16255049

>>16255027
he after all a hero of the imperium.

>> No.16255053

>>16255031
Oh god, now I am imagining a custodes with a "The Emperor shall rise again!" Hat and a wife beater and jeans on a folding chair with a beer in one hand and his spear in another going "You pussies gonna start some shit today, or did you remember what you are... pussies."

>> No.16255057

>>16255046
He would send
EVERY ASSASSIN
after you

>> No.16255058

>>16255031
and now I'm picturing him with a small table next to the custode with a pitcher of green liquid, salt on the rim, and a pink paper umbrella.

he's wearing sunglasses.

>> No.16255065

>>16255027
>Ciaphas Cain is stronger than a Terminator marine.

Well, he *is*.

Have you read of the things he has done in our Imperium?

We'd all be fucked if it wasn't for him.
He is the most courageous man there ever was.

>> No.16255067

>>16255046
Well if you killed one of them you could probably take those assassins too

>> No.16255068

>>16255053
>>16255058
More like a cup of coffee and a newspaper

>> No.16255077

>>16255046
>killing a custodes
>worried about what the high lords of terra think
>Idontthinksotim.jpg

If you manage to kill a custodes, in the palace of terra... then you don't give a shit about what the high lords think because one you have the rest of the custodes now coming down on your head and two you are probably someone so badass or unaligned to the IoM that you don't give a fuck.

It would seriously take something like a phoenix lord, a necron lord, a chaos lord, a high chaos daemon, or an ork warboss to take down a custodes... and they don't care about what the HLoT think.

>> No.16255088

>>16255053
>>16255058
Actually I was picturing a metal folding chair, not a lawn chair.

>> No.16255089

The Custodian from The First Heretic (Vendatha?) managed to kill three Word Bearers in as many seconds before attempting to arrest Lorgar. Even when the rest of the WBs opened up on him and Argel Tal speared him through the fucking face with his sword, he survived. He was seriously fucked up, but the Custodes can take some serious punishment.

Even the Custodian with the vow of silence managed to hurl his spear with enough force that it caused everything in the possessed Xaphen's torso to explode spectacularly from his back.

>> No.16255100

>>16255068
any of the three would be fitting.

I like the 'relaxed on the beach' look.

yours is more 'eh, another day, another deamon'

>>16255053
this guy has the classic redneck remake another fine classic.

>> No.16255101

Between guarding the lower levels of the Imperial Palace from daemonic incursions and performing Blood Games nonstop for ten thousand years, I'm assuming that Custodes have had enough practice to stay sharp.

I know in 4th edition, it was mentioned that single Custodes would discretely go out across the Imperium, visiting certain warzones or areas of importance, making sure the Emperor's will was done. Always figured they divined those locations through the Emperor's Tarot, not having a clear idea of why those places were important but just doing it out of loyalty.

>> No.16255127

>>16255088
and we were aparently thinking of folding lawn chairs.

I got one of these. they're great

>> No.16255133

>>16254788
Yeah 8 on 2 and they were deamon infused and still lost all but one member.

>> No.16255142

>>16255089
that is actually more keeping with the old fluff of 40k, originally the fight between the lion and the wolf ended when one of them stabbed the other through the heart and the decided to call it a draw...

Damn 2nd ed fluff was crazy.

>> No.16255154

>>16254958

Pfft, they probably built a basketball court in there.

"Mikael Jordanus shoots! He scores! Aw shit, LeBronicus, one more shot and I- aww fuck, not again. Pass me my spear will you man?"

He then slaughters the demons that interrupted his game, grumbling about how he was about to win.

>> No.16255165

>>16254934
>>16254934
source on this information regarding custodes killing orks?
im assuming one of the HH novels

>> No.16255174

>>16255127
I kinda had this in mind, in the eventuality that a daemon does step through.

>> No.16255187

>>16255154

And lo, Custodian Jordanus did slay the dozens of demons that dared to creep through the warp rift, rip off each of their heads and slam dunk them through the imperial hoop.

>> No.16255195

They look pretty badass.

>> No.16255216

>>16255187
This is the birth of the Chaos Dunk

>> No.16255237

Are the Custodes more resistant to Chaos than the Grey Knights?

>> No.16255239

>>16255187
It's heresy, but I see them keeping score on the Emperor's chest. Or at least a scoreboard propped up in his lap.

>> No.16255264

>>16255165
not in a HH book, it was in one of the codexes that described some of the fights during the great crusade.

Apparently the WAAAAAAGH!s that the imperium face now are dull, faded echos of the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!s from the emperor's time, with warbosses being the size of gargants and etc.

It mentions that there was one waaaaaagh! that the emperor and his 300 guard of custodes fought, it contained about 3~ million Orks, and they killed them all in only a couple hours.

Some math-anon realized that the custodes had to have been slaying the orks at a rate of about 6 per second in order to have done it.

Now that is an average, I could see a thrown grenade taking out 20 in one second, and then maybe a couple seconds of lull follows or etc, but yeah... they are that badass.

>> No.16255270

>>16255237
The custodes have never fallen to chaos, they serve the emperor fully.

Whether this is just because they are in close proximity to the emperor all the time or something special he did to them, we don't know.

>> No.16255275

if they'er so good why not just clone them and make a whole army out of it?

>> No.16255288

>>16255275
why_didn't_the_eagles_fly_the_ring_to_mordor.png

>> No.16255290

>Whether this is just because they are in close proximity to the emperor all the time or something special he did to them, we don't know.

I imagine that since they knew him personally, they would easily be able to call chaos on it's bullshit when they start talking that traitor jive. Besides, emperor obviously gave them ridiculous amounts of power, what could chaos offer them besides freaky deamonette sexs?

>> No.16255291

>>16255275
Because only the Emperor knows how to make more, and he's kind of... yeah.

>> No.16255292

I remember the scene with the wary Primarch, but he wasn't afraid, or even all that wary, of the custodes himself, but of the Emperor that custodes represented. Not scared of the cops, but since his dad is the police chief . . .

And the Custodes died just as often against the Space Marines as the Marines died against the Custodes. You'd have some individuals taking more of their share of kills, and everyone else just dying. The Custodes have different geneseed, and are trained for a different purpose. Both excel in their specific areas of expertise, but in all other ways they are equal.

>> No.16255295

>>16255275
1 - Spess Mehreens going renegade brought the Empire to its knees. Custodes going renegade would destroy it.

2 - The Custodes are descended from the Emperor, and each one was custom-made by Emps. Current Imperial tech can't do that any more.

>> No.16255303

>>16255290
A promise that once the decrepit rotting corpse of the once-emperor past from this reality into the Immaterium the Emperor would be once again allowed to reincarnate and take control of the Imperium once more.

The Custode would have to be REEEEALLLY drunk to fall for it but hey, it's something Chaos can tempt them with.

>> No.16255306

>>16255275

Giving everyone the power of a Primarch and then a hundred thousand people with half their power was a bad idea and ended in civil war.

That should answer your question.

>> No.16255307

>>16255264

>One grenade
>20 Orks

Jesus Christ. That's not a grenade, that's a major fucking bomb.

>> No.16255311

i like the way ADB put it when the word bearers saw the custodes fighting: "lions, not wolves. Gold, not grey."

>> No.16255325

>>16255307
Just make sure to count to 3

>> No.16255369

>>16255264

Every swipe of a spear would probably instakill a whole squad of boyz.

Also, you have to take into account that the MOTHERFUCKING EMPEROR was fighting. He probably took out half of them by himself.

>> No.16255382

>>16255288
Because_sauron_had_flying_minions.JPG

>> No.16255415

>>16255275
>>16255382

Because_Custodes_are_difficult_to_make.JPG

>> No.16255432

Look at that dreadnought! LOOK AT IT!

>> No.16255434

>>16255292
>but in all other ways they are equal.
except that the marines are the mass produced version so they can fight all across the galaxy, while the custodians are the hand crafted guys whose job is to protect the most important guy ever.

Mass produced by their chapter < individually created by the Emperor

>> No.16255477

>>16255432
>>16255434

Nah, Guardsmen are mass produced. Spess mehreens are handcrafted but built out of crappier materials.

>> No.16255533

Guardsmen = Mass produced fodder-men
Space Marines = Master-modified men
Custodes = Artificial beings master-crafted in entirety.

>> No.16255575

>>16255434

Astartes are not the 'mass produced version' of the Custodes, nor are the Custodes the master-crafted version of the Astartes. They were made for two distinctive purposes, and each excels within that purpose. Outside of that, they are equal. Fluff-wise, canon-wise. If you want to go on believing Custodes > Astartes simply because you like them better, then go on ahead. But the only justification for superiority of one over the other is likability. Which one you like/prefer more.

>> No.16255807

>>16255533
>Custodes = Artificial beings

nope.jpg

While it's not known what goes on in the enhancement process, we do know that is an enhancement of something, or in this case someone, already there. Like an Astartes, though the process is different.

>> No.16255940

>Beat Horus in a boxing match
>Use bolters without power armor

>But the only justification for superiority of one over the other is likability

OH FO SHO DERP DERP

>> No.16256119

>>16255940

Considering that he didn't best the Primarch but was able to "hold his own?" Like some other Astartes?

Space Marines can lug heavy bolters around without the power armor. It just gives their strength a further boost that has an added affect of making typical bolters near weightless. Not required, just added boon.

So yes, the inherent superiority between Astartes and Custodes is either situational to their individual purposes or nothing more then an 'eye of the beholder' deal.

>> No.16256212

>>16255187
and for his efforts he was rewarded with the honourary title Aero Jordanus

>> No.16256335

>>16256119
An Astartes hold his own against Horus? riiiiight

And the point is they don't "lug around" they're bolters, they can run fight and fire them as good as Astartes can IN ARMOR, or better.

Also were created before the HH by Emprah with god knows fucking what dark age tech (enough to make them better than Astartes) and help train the mother fucking primarchs.

But of course likability is the only difference.

>> No.16256339

>>16256335
their

>> No.16256422

>>16256335

>An Astartes hold his own against Horus? riiiiight
Abaddon against Horus, Luther against the Lion, Kharn against Angron. I'm sure there are other examples, but each has trained with and against their Primarchs at some point. Luther trained the Lion, and Abaddon bested Horus once. It was apparently way in the beginning of the Great Crusade and Abaddon didn't really consider it a victory but just luck, but nonetheless.

>And the point is they don't "lug around" they're bolters, they can run fight and fire them as good as Astartes can IN ARMOR, or better.
No. The bolters are not weightless for the Custodes outside of armor. They may choose not to wear it, but that doesn't mean that they're fucking feathers to them. They both lug heavy bolters around outside of armor, but both train so diligently that it probably doesn't appear as such.

>Also were created before the HH by Emprah with god knows fucking what dark age tech (enough to make them better than Astartes) and help train the mother fucking primarchs.
Pre-Unification enhanced warriors were inferior to the post-Unification Astartes and Custodes. The Custodians as a force existed before the Astartes, but their individual sciences were perfected simultaneously. And many Marines trained the Primarchs as well, but by necessity it had to be outside members to be proper. They were their commanding officers. Enlisted men don't train their own officers. But veterans from another fighting force? Sure. But mostly it was other Primarchs.

>But of course likability is the only difference
Because I said it was the only difference. I never once said in any of my posts that each had their pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses.

>> No.16256479

>>16256422
>An Astartes hold his own against Horus? riiiiight
How about the time when a human actually managed to not only duel with ALPHARIUS, WHO IS A PRIMARCH, but also TO STAB HIM in Legion.

Fucking Abnett.

>> No.16256493

On a slightly related note, I have an idea as to what the black box matt ward put into the grey knights codex.

The emperor was created by sacrificing hundreds of shamans that had fuck high psychic signatures.

Now, I haven't read any horus heresy except mechanicum and the alpha legion books but what if the order is to call upon the custodes to sacrifice themselves so their combined lifeforce effectively creates a new emperor or revives the old.

I don't know, sounds like a good last ditch effort.

>> No.16256505

>>16256479
assuming that was the real alpharius, he took a sword in the chest like it was nothing, then killed the guy who put it there

>> No.16256520

>>16256479
>>16256505

It also made it obvious that it was allowed by the Alpha Legionnaire/Primarch(s)/idon'tfuckingknowanymore. He just stood there, looked down at the blade like it was not even an irritant, then said "That's all I'll give you."

>> No.16256523

Depends on the Era. Pre Heresy and Heresy Custodes were what you see there, huge badass frontline soldiers.

M42 Custodes are all individually super-augmented and trained with a bit more internal focus. They study (at, presumably) the Assassin Temples because they need to be able to stop them.

So imagine a guy with more augmetics than a space marine who is trained to spot Callidus Assassins and to take down an Eversor in hand to hand combat.

>> No.16256538

>>16256493

>100s of untouched by Chaos, Alpha-level psykers.
>The equivalent of Custodes.

Nope.

>> No.16256568

>>16255575
Custodes are superior, first example that comes to mind is one of the custodes who accompanied one of the traitor primarchs was able to kill more than a few traitor space marines during the heresy before being felled.

Another of the horus heresy novels have a scene with marines commenting on the absolute killing power of the custodes- except it was also commented that the only weakness is that while the custodes fought as individuals, not brothers like marines.

That was it.

>> No.16256616

>>16256568

And a single Thousand Son eviscerated a few Custodes without any psykering. In both cases, it was the writer making the threat an 'oh shit' moment, not an actual indicator of superiority for either side.

The whole fighting better as an individual instead of being better as a collective is their strength. What they do best. The Astartes are the opposite. Each side does have their strengths and weaknesses. Throw a Custodes at a Marine and the Custodes will likely win, though only in rare situations is the difference significant. Throw a squad of each at each other and you have one Hell of a fight. Throw a Company and you've got the Marines with the upper hand. Chapter vs. Chapter, Marines win.

That's just how it works. One's individual, the other is en masse. Neither is 'superior.'

>> No.16258748

This is Warhammer 40k. Obviously the best soldiers will never see combat.

>> No.16260077

So, what do the Custodes think of all this Emperor worship?

>> No.16260320

Are any of the Custodes psykers?

>> No.16261954

>>16255575

In "Blood Games" it was pretty specifically mentioned that the reason Custodes were rare compared to Astartes was because all Astartes could be created using the same process, while each Custodes needed it tweaked to their individual bodies.

>> No.16262025

>>16261954

Huh, thread's still going.

Wait, you agree with me, but it reads like you disagree.

"Water's wet"
"Yeah, but water's wet"
"What?"

>> No.16262109

Blood Games states that they are roughly equal and that if it came to a fight no one would place their money one way or the next. But it does say that some Custodes where noticeably larger and stronger, I'd presume that these were probably the Companions.

>> No.16262265

rolled 49 = 49

>>16262109

So . . . You were agreeing with me, okay. Maybe I'm just crazy and the way you word it only seems confrontation to me.

>> No.16262520

>>16255432
Its just a Contemptor Dread, bro, Forge World makes them. They're decent but not head and shoulders over other dreads.

>> No.16262592

>>16256422
>Abaddon against Horus
How did he pull that off without any arms?

>> No.16262612

>Astartes aren't as individually strong but are trained to work as a team
>Custodes are strong as fuck but don't have a bond of brotherhood on the same level as Astartes

So Astartes play Battlefield and Custodes play Call of Duty?

>> No.16262629

>>16256523
This.

Legio Custodes / Adeptus Custodes.

Two different things.

>>
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