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[ERROR] No.15725500 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Why does every nerd cum over Lovecrafts shitty stories when much superior writers (Lem, Strugatsky brothers etc.) wrote entire books with similar themes (humans meeting with the incomprehensible alien beings) that are superior in every aspect?

Besides, Lovecraft? That sounds like some gigolo's pseudonym.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

>> No.15725529

Lovecraft isn't obscure enough for you, OP?

>> No.15725535

>>15725500
You're trying to troll, but we'll still have reasonable discussion anyway.

One of the main reasons is that a lot of things Lovecraft did, he did first AND took it up to eleven at the same time.

>> No.15725564

>>15725500
unlike those other guys, Lovecraft also had hilarious racism

>> No.15725587

>>15725500
among much of the fandom it is acnoladged that Lovecraft was not the best Lovecraftian writer. someone had a tier list a while ago.

>> No.15725593

>>15725564
One of my ancestory was gypsy. Will I turn into fish-person?

>> No.15725595

>>15725500

>> No.15725629

>>15725529

>Not obscure enough
>Enough
>Lovecraft
>Obscure
>2011

>> No.15725638

Why not go ask /lit/?

>> No.15725696

I am seconding Lem. That guy had absolutely amazing style of writing in his space stories. He was obviously very highly knowledgeable of space physics, spaceflight technology, nuclear science, computer science etc. I'd describe his Pilot Pirx series as the best hard sci-fi I had pleasure to read.

>> No.15725714

Hating Lovecraft is hardocre bro

>> No.15725720

>>15725696
In other words, Lem was an entirely different category of fiction and comparing him to lovecraft is like comparing candy to fried food?

>> No.15725764

>>15725720
this. Lem is an optimist compared to Lovecraft.

>> No.15725794

>>15725535
>One of the main reasons is that a lot of things Lovecraft did, he did first AND took it up to eleven at the same time.

False.

Moby-Dick tackled some of the same themes better than Lovecraft did.

>> No.15725822

>>15725764
Not all his stories are optimistic. Anyone remebers the one about the scientist who made these two polymer based things called "fungoids" that eventually took over his mind? That was creepy.

>> No.15725839

>>15725794
Lovecraft never wrote about whaling. If you mean characterization and such, well then I have to say not only is Moby Dick off topic but even Lovecraft gave his credit to Poe and Dunsany when it comes to who did what first.

What I mean is, remember John Carpenter's "The Thing", a more faithful adaptation of the short story "Who Goes There?"?. Ten years earlier lovecraft wrote a similar story, taking place in antarctica, in which the shape shifting shoggoths in the story are portrayed as herd beasts for an insanely advanced race. Yes, The Thing, as a herd beast, for something even crazier, and he beat the guy to the punch by ten years.

>> No.15725868

>implying I'm a nerd.

It's fucking hard to score Lovecraft books.

How the fuck could I score some books of Russian scifi writers, if every bookstore only sells standard bullshit scifi and fantasy like Harry Potter and The Culture?

>> No.15725870

>>15725839
I mean the cosmic nihilism, the awareness that there are things man can never understand, that human sentience is insignificant and irrelevant in the face of what else is out there, that discovering even a fraction of the truth will drive one mad.

Moby-Dick did that better than Lovecraft ever could, and I like Lovecraft.

>> No.15725881

>>15725868
>It's fucking hard to score Lovecraft books.

...What? Where the fuck do you live?

>> No.15725901

>>15725868
THE INTERNET, YOU DUSTY OLD FART!

>> No.15725903

>>15725881
The Netherlands.

If I want good scifi or fantasy, I have to go look around second hand stores for '70s paperbacks.

>> No.15725910

>>15725881

seriously. there's that series of 3 compilations of short stories and novellas. The Best Of or whatever, The Dream World Of and one that's mostly his earlier stuff.

>> No.15725917

>>15725901
>internet
>reading a book

Inlike some people, I want to read a book, physically in my hand.

Fuck e-reading.

>> No.15725920

>>15725903

>Also live in Holland

Maybe a fellow dutchman knows what the fuck is up with this.

Why is it godforsaken impossible to find any /tg/-related game in this fucking country, outside of 40k?

>> No.15725924 [DELETED] 

>dislike lovecraft
>get banned
>mfw

>> No.15725925

>>15725917

I think they were referring to buying them online, e.g. via Amazon.

>> No.15725932

MODS FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!!!!!!1

>> No.15725933

>>15725629

>> No.15725934

>>15725903
I hate second hand book shops that have bookselves of old sci-fi/fantasy books. I walk past one, everything goes hazy and when I come to, it's thirty minutes later and I blew the month's food budget on a shopping bag crammed with paperbacks.

>> No.15725940

>>15725870
Ah, the themes... did we read the same Moby Dick? I have been known to forget a line or two, but seriously I don't think we read the same book at all.

Assuming we did, what I like about Lovecraft isn't just the darkness and the "unknown", but how he can even take what is known and turn it on its head. "Yeah, you're just seeing one face of it. You're not looking at a square... no, not a cube either, it's a triangle, you're that blind. And it only gets even more bizarre as you go deeper." It wasn't merely "you can't know everything" but "What you know is wrong. You don't know anything. What you've seen is incomplete. You have seen nothing. ONE extra detail and it all flies out the window. ONE discovery, heck, even just a new point of view on things you already know, and your whole world view is destroyed."

>> No.15725943

>>15725917

Yeah, I'll agree. If I want to read a book, I like to have a physical copy in my hands. There's just something about turning that next page. Makes me sad that Border's is closing its stores.

>> No.15725949

>>15725924
Actually, it's shit tier trolling. He didn't even really try.

>> No.15725952

>>15725925
>buying books online

>not a book store or library

Hmmm, I can't help to question my own behavior right now. It is kind of... unsettling to admit, but I actually like wandering around book cases.

>> No.15725957

>>15725924
Actually he was banned for obvious trolling. Continue the polite discussion.

>> No.15725961

>>15725934

oh jesus, man. I walk by one of those, see something like this, and I'm just like "I have to know, dude. I have to know what this is."

>> No.15725968

>>15725952

Yeah, and when you're done wandering around book cases and don't find what you fucking want, you go online and order it.

>> No.15725974

>>15725949
That's very true, but there have been many threads that were much more unrelated to /tg/. It seems odd to ban this person for such a minor offense. Or have the mods decided to crack down since I left.

>> No.15725976

>>15725961
The old books were always the best. via the title and art alone you can't even tell if it's sci-fi, fantasy or post apoc.... back then...... it could be fucking ANYTHING.

>> No.15725977

Since we're discussing books, what is /tg/ reading now? I needa hit Border's before the store here closes and I'm looking for suggestions.

>> No.15725981

I'm taking a random guess, OP is the guy who was yammering about Cthulhu "getting killed" by a steamboat.

>> No.15725984

>>15725974
The mods are a bit random in their banhammer applications. Usually the mods follow the rules, and the mods are never 100% present.

>> No.15725986

>>15725977
Dante's Divine Comedy.

I've been reading it for a while now, but I'm not really progressing much.

>> No.15725987

>>15725961
brb, hunting down a copy of that book.

>> No.15725988

>>15725974

>minor offense
>dissing Lovecraft

lol no.

>>15725977

>I needa hit Border's before the store here closes

goddamn it's so depressing about that. I loved Border's.

>> No.15725992

>>15725925
Apparently Amazon doesn't ship to the Netherlands. Huh.

>>15725940
>Assuming we did, what I like about Lovecraft isn't just the darkness and the "unknown", but how he can even take what is known and turn it on its head. "Yeah, you're just seeing one face of it. You're not looking at a square... no, not a cube either, it's a triangle, you're that blind. And it only gets even more bizarre as you go deeper." It wasn't merely "you can't know everything" but "What you know is wrong. You don't know anything. What you've seen is incomplete. You have seen nothing. ONE extra detail and it all flies out the window. ONE discovery, heck, even just a new point of view on things you already know, and your whole world view is destroyed."

And I'm telling you that Melville did the same damn thing.

"Oh, it's just a whale. No wait, it's actually the rise and fall of western civilization. Oh, it's white, like snow... and like the ultimate annihilation of all souls and loss of individuality in the face of the universe's maw."

In fact, this right here:
>What you've seen is incomplete. You have seen nothing. ONE extra detail and it all flies out the window.

is EXPLICITLY in Moby-Dick, the realization that the whale is too big to be seen with your own eyes, that all your conception can't handle even one tooth, the revelation that God has no face other than searing, white nothingness staring back into reality.

>> No.15725999

>>15725977
Fixing to go to Boot Camp, but when I get back I am getting a Kindle and downloading whole libraries, first up is the Game of Thrones stuff, and then more of Sherlock Holmes.

>> No.15726009

>>15725977
I have been reading Jack McDevitt's stuff. I really dig the Alex Benedict series. Also I recently read Joe Abercrombie's First Law series and Best Served Cold. Both had some really funny grim humor.

>> No.15726013

>>15725987

You gotta know. You just have to know. There's a mostly-naked chick tied to a dragon's head, and some dark lord in the background. I see that, I have to know what the book is about.

Back in the day, sci-fi publishers knew what was up. You look at (pic related) and it's just like, yeah, Space Marines are going to fuck up some shit. Whatever.

>> No.15726021

>>15725920
I got Blood curdeling tales of horror and macabre for my birthday. and as a dutchman I must say that our local library has a bundle of his first 20 short stories.

but if you don't live where I live(NH) its some tough shit probrabbrah.

>> No.15726029

>>15725500

ReCaptcha : 62/0 rtifie

>> No.15726030

>>15725992
Ok, we did read the same book... not talking about it with you anymore. No offense, but... what happened in Lovecraft's stories HAPPENED, what you're describing is METAPHOR. Again, candy to fried chicken, not even apples and oranges difference, we are worlds apart here. Nice talking to you, though.

>> No.15726038

>>15726013
Its marketability man.

Sci-fi publishers can't make profits if they only focus on its core demographic, and the more obscene topics and themes may be uncomfortable for the public to swallow.

>> No.15726040

>>15726013

Not to sound like a flaming homosexual, but most of the newer 40k books suck. They've lost their charm.

>> No.15726050

>>15726030
This has got to be one of the most bullshit patronising posts I've ever read, and I'm not even the guy you are talking to.

>> No.15726057

>>15726040

There's still a bunch of good ones that are popping up here and there, depends on who the author is.

>> No.15726073

>>15726057

I'll agree with that.

>> No.15726083

>is EXPLICITLY in Moby-Dick, the realization that the whale is too big to be seen with your own eyes, that all your conception can't handle even one tooth, the revelation that God has no face other than searing, white nothingness staring back into reality.

Different anon, but I'm pretty sure that's in the bible, bro, or at the very least the old testament. It's hardly original, if that was the meassure of worth.

Still, I'm surprised you can't find that stuff in Holland and even more surprised that Amazon won't ship stuff to you. Are you sure you're doing it right?

>> No.15726084

Cause Lovecraft did it first.

>> No.15726087

>>15726040
They always sucked. I read Eisenhorn on /tg/'s recommendation. I wish I could have my time back, it was terrible.

>> No.15726089

Fuck you faggot mod. Go fuck yourself.

>> No.15726091

>>15726084
No the bible did it first.

>> No.15726104

>>15726040
>>15726057
>>15726073

Yeah, I pretty much stick to the Horus Heresy series, and if it's written by Graham McNeill, Dan Abnett, or ADB it's probably good. The rest is pretty hit and miss.

But goddamn, I'd read CS Goto if they put a naked chick tied to a dragon on the cover.

>> No.15726115

>>15726091

>The Bible: The Original Cthulhu

>> No.15726143

I did manage to score a bundle of early Lovecraft books here in the Netherlands.

A publisher in Den Bosch brought out that bundle.

We might lack a decent scifi market, but at least I can enjoy my books with a nice fat joint. For that extra edge.

>> No.15726155

>>15726091
>>15726115

I'd read The Bible if they put a naked chick tied to a dragon on the cover. Or, like one of those Conan covers, where you've got a buff barbarian dude and a scantily clad chick fighting off a bunch of apes with swords or an army of skeletons or whatever.

>> No.15726162

>>15726115

Now I have an idea for a CoC campaign now.

>> No.15726193

>>15726162
Hahahah, I did a Delta Green game, in which the players blew themselves up along with most of the American Roman-catholic bishops and archbishops.

>> No.15726205

>>15726155

>spongebob_with_wallet.jpg

Brilliant! And cut out all of the boring parts, too. Leave the sex, orgies, and murder intact.

>> No.15726229

>>15726155
>The buff Barbarian dude is Jesus
>the scantily Clad chick is Mary
> Fighting Legion.

>> No.15726232

>Banned
Lovecraft wins!

>> No.15726240

>>15726232

Lovecraft always wins.

>> No.15726267

>>15726240
naaa it's lovecraft everyone loses. EVERYONE, even the winners.

>> No.15726274

>>15726162
Man, where've you been for the angel thread that's been floating around on /tg/ for the past three days?

>> No.15726289

>>15726030
Ok, that's cool. I was about done talking about Moby-Dick anyways. My point is, Lovecraft wasn't "first" for anything he did. That even applies to your straight, "actually happened" cosmic horror as well.

Lovecraft borrowed a ton from his contemporary writers; not even all the monsters in his mythos are his own invention. Look at Hastur.

It's better to think of it as a writing circle of friends, who were all writing the same kind of stuff and so borrowed from each other all the time. Lovecraft would put Hastur in a Cthulhu story, and then someone else would put Yog-Sothoth on one of their stories, and so on. It was all cyclical and symbiotic.

Was Lovecraft the best of the circle? Maybe, maybe not. Was he its leader? Even more debatable. Did it improve his writing? Most definitely. But they all benefited from it, and giving Lovecraft credit for "doing it first and taking it to eleven" is just wrong.

>> No.15726301

>>15726274

Trying to think up a one-shot CoC campaign.

>> No.15726306

>>15726083
>Different anon, but I'm pretty sure that's in the bible, bro, or at the very least the old testament. It's hardly original, if that was the meassure of worth.

It is in the Bible, and Moby-Dick makes a lot of references to the Old Testament. Which only proves my point even more. Originality isn't much value when everything out there has been done a thousand years ago, and crediting Lovecraft with "doing it first" is simply false when Moby-Dick did it before him and Hawthorne did it before Moby-Dick and so on all the way back to Moses.

>> No.15726320

>>15726155
>Or, like one of those Conan covers, where you've got a buff barbarian dude and a scantily clad chick fighting off a bunch of apes with swords or an army of skeletons or whatever.

Read Judges. Or First Samuel. Maybe even Second Samuel and First and Second Kings. That stuff is in there, people ignore it on account of the New Testament. Which is a damn shame.

Who cares if the stories happened or if there's moral value to them? They're good stories. People should read the Bible more, religious or not.

>> No.15726326

His opinion was vitriolic, but I think it was just an opinion. He did list a few alternative authors

>> No.15726327

>>15726289
And all of them were pen pals, corresponding each other using letters.

My god... they were a equivalent to a bunch of tripcode namefagging writefags circlejerking in the postal service network.

>> No.15726331

>>15725587
>someone
Hahaha, are you serious? Someone said something? Oh well, I guess that mean we are all wrong.

Besides he did not do it for the money, he never worked in his life, and he wrote from experience.

>> No.15726337

>>15726240
>>15726267
>>15726232

>> No.15726468

>>15725986

Doing the same damn thing.

Read a Canto. Scratch head. Read what it actually means on sparknotes. "Ahah!" moment. Re-read canto now knowing what it is that I'm supposed to be getting out of it.
Rinse. Repeat.

I'm only about 60 pages in and am hoping that by 1/4 of the way through I'll be able to figure out what is going on without resorting to sparknotes.

>> No.15726481

Mexican here. I love Lovecraft's works, mainly the Dream Cycle, but I have to admit the guy wasn't a good writer. His writing style is just very poor (probably because he was a pulp writer paid by the word). But, here's a funny thing about his writing. It's better in Spanish. I read some his works in Spanish first and then I read some in English and I noticed the language and vocabulary used sounded less "forced" in Spanish translations. With most authors, I prefer the English originals (even if they use difficult words or elaborate phrases), but with Lovecraft, I just can't fin his writing as attractive as the Spanish translations.
But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

>> No.15726488

>>15726468
Bad news for you buddy. Inferno is easymode. Purgatorio and Paradiso are far more complex.

Inferno is Dante writing "shitty" on purpose, dumbing himself down and using what he would normally consider inferior rhymes, poor meter, and such.

>> No.15726513

>>15725992

That's not what I am liking Lovecraft for. I like his works for his clinical oddness. And I don't see that in Moby Dick.

Unlike Moby Dick, the Cthulhu mythos is freakish.

>> No.15726553

>Sci-fi publishers can't make profits if they only focus on its core demographic, and the more obscene topics and themes may be uncomfortable for the public to swallow.

Sci-fi publishers are simpletons then. The Cthulhu Mythos a-priori doesn't appeal to any demographics either and its themes and topics are highly uncomfortable for the public to swallow. Still it lives on after decades.

We live in times of economic risk aversion. Sigh.

>> No.15726559

Eschew Lovecraft.
Read Haggard, Kipling, Poe and Borges.
Win forever.

>> No.15726574

>naaa it's lovecraft everyone loses. EVERYONE, even the winners.

I thought that was life.

>> No.15726576

>>15726553
You should remember that Lovecraft actually had an audience with the horror and weird pulp magazines of his day. Even then he had a hard time getting published, and it is largely due to his loyal fans he rose to the fame he has today.

>> No.15726605

>>15725952
i know shit over in europe isnt the same as here, but maybe if you get a chance to travel to the UK or some big university town you might find a good used bookstore. college towns ALWAYS have used bookstores and thriftshops with shittons of books.

>> No.15726633

Sounds like a great long-time investment for a publisher then. Part of being a good publisher (or anyone doing business) is taking measured risks, meaning that occasionally you got to take the risk of pushing something you believe in, even if market analysis says otherwise.

>> No.15726682

>>15726633
Where I live, there's a publishing house that only publishes cheap books (20-50 pesos, which is around 2-4 dollars) and they have a whole line of Lovecraft compilations. Those books are probably their best sellers, too. I find it odd that he's considered a risky investment, particularly because most of his works are public domain as far as I know, so it's not like they're very costly to publish.

>> No.15726791

>>15726682
Licensing isn't the most expensive part of publishing, I'd imagine. But still, I concur that Lovecraft is a fairly safe bet, provided that you don't print too many copies. He is no bestseller, at any rate.

>> No.15726928

>>15726559

Borges: Brilliant ideas, reads like a professor emeritus delivering a lecture. Also, plot almost nonexistent; exposition is everything.

>> No.15726935

>>15726791
That's what I mean. it's not exactly the kind of books that can sustain your whole company, but it's far from being a safe bet.

>> No.15728359

rolled 6 = 6

>>15725500

Oh mod, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways...

>> No.15728395

sexy mod is sexy

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