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15655931 No.15655931 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Am I the only one that'd like to see Chaos become a little more sympathetic? All we have right now is absolutely evil shits that worship horrible ruinous powers and want to kill everything.

It's just that the whole setting sometimes goes on about how each of them does have potential for something less evil: Nurgle is this loving grandfathery guy, Slaanesh is all about enjoyment and living your life fullest, Khorne has the whole martial honour and challenge thing going on, and Tzeentch likes progress and advancement which can't all be bad. But we never see any of this.

Like, what if there was a warrior of Khorne that marched into an Imperial settlement, challenged the mightiest warlord of the place, beat him in the fight, then left without killing anyone else? Or a Slaaneshi guy that's perfectly reasonable except for a bit of sex and drugs and rock'n'roll? Some more reasonable Chaos bunch joining forces with the Imperium to beat back some Tyranids and Necrons? What'd be so wrong about that?

Oh wait, not grimdark enough.

>> No.15655937

Liber chaotica, extremely good piece of fluff on the chaos gods, chaos itself and how they work.

Read it Anon

>> No.15655946

>Oh wait, not grimdark enough.
You answered your own question.

>> No.15655961

>warrior of Khorne
>not killing

>servant of Slaanesh
>not living to excess

>Reasonable Chaos bunch

>> No.15655969

There are chaos subfactions that are sympathetic or even tragic. Many heros that fall to chaos often state selfless and honorable reasons for doing so. The insane and evil depiction is mainly due to how the warp/deamons affect the minds of heretics. Although fluff has been leaning to ward making them the BBEG, they do have other motivations.

>> No.15655985

The Imperiun are such Christfags...

>> No.15656010

>>15655931
I always thought you'd be more inclined to see this sort of thing in WFB Chaos.

Whereas 40K Chaos just seems to be all HURR MAIM KILL BURN I DO COCAINE JUST AS PLANNED ALSO WHATEVER NURGLE'S MEME IS all the time.

>> No.15656015

There'll be a lot of stuff like you mentioned op. Like governors indulging a bit too heavily, and warriors becoming obsessed with martial skill. Starting on the slippery slope to chaos. Just that's all a grey area, is it heresy, is it dedication etc. You just hear about the blood thirsty monsters and shit more.

also
>not grimdark enough for the edgy 13 year olds (you know, gw's target market).

>> No.15656018

You have the right idea but are going about it the wrong way. It would be more like "Khornate attacks town, kills all the enemy soldiers, then leaves". It's still a rampage, and he's still crazy, but he's crazy in a very specific way.

Nurglites coming to a place ridden with disease and making everyone comfortable and happy while not curing anything so it's just happy people rotting and dying. Slanneshies that obsess over things OTHER than sex and drugs. That kind of thing.

>> No.15656023

>>15656015
But it always eventually devolves into the full-on complete douchebaggery. Unless they die first.

>> No.15656038
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15656038

>>15656018
>Nurglites coming to a place ridden with disease and making everyone comfortable and happy while not curing anything so it's just happy people rotting and dying.

Hospital clowns confirmed for heretics.

>> No.15656053

>>15656010
>Implying Nurgle has a meme
>Implying Nurgle is loved by /tg/
>Implying that Nurgle armies don't suck

>> No.15656056

>>15656038
Are you implying that the Make-A-Wish Foundation is really a Nurgle cult?

>> No.15656063

>>15656056
Yes. Yes, I am.

>> No.15656073

>>15656053
You might not love Nurgle, but Nurgle loves you.

Each and every one of you.

He loves you so much.

>hisinu swamp

He wants you to check out his new swamp also.

>> No.15656074

>Or a Slaaneshi guy that's perfectly reasonable except for a bit of sex and drugs and rock'n'roll?

How about an artist? He makes incredibly beautiful pictures and the highest pleasure for him is seeing others moved by his work.

>> No.15656076

The reason we don't really see this is because despite that duality, they're still horrible eldritch abominations we can never truly understand.

Nurgle is loving of all and a grandfather to his followers, but only because he thinks/knows that everything will fall to entropy and nothingness one day. So, he tries to be as sincere and caring to those he blesses, taking away the pain of the diseases he grants, because one can't touch Nurgle's power without being infected with ninety-nine strains of space AIDS. Whether he infests them voluntarily or accidentally, who knows. Maybe he can't help it, being the filthy fat hambeast he is, or maybe he does it so they can spread more entropy and bring about the end quicker, so noone has to suffer as much or as long.

Slaanesh is, well... Slaanesh is about perfection and excess. He... She... It, is constantly straddling the line between 'having a good time' and 'drowning myself in a lake of heroin because lol.' As are its followers. While it grants a damn good time to those who follow it, that time is going to be very short. The star that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

Continued.

>> No.15656078

Black Crusade is out soon, OP. Wait until then.

>> No.15656090

>>15656063
So Aperture Science is actually Nurgle's enemy?

>> No.15656100

>>15656076
And Tzeentch? He's a scheming bastard. His master plan may just be manipulating us into THINKING there's a master plan. He's the hardest to pick out as having any duality, because he's fairly bonkers and warps fate and all that. Oh, and you left out hope. Like the kind of hope a dying world of the Emperor has as Tzeentchi followers invade. Or someone manipulated by Tzeentchi followers. Or the planet descending into anarchy because MacGuffin. JUST AS PLANNED.

As for Khorne... Well... Khorne might have once been about martial honor and shite, and indeed, in Fantasy he was, but he's pretty much fallen to his bloodlust completely and gone from 'God of war, ambition, power' to 'God of irrational hate, genocide, violence,' et cetera, et cetera. He probably started down that road after Doombreed- Ghenghis Khan, except really evil and turned into a Daemon Prince- slaughtered his way across the world, and was presumably even more brutal and over-the-top than the real Ghenghis Khan. Khorne doesn't really prescribe to any proper honor anymore. His followers butcher everyone, combatant or noncombatant, for the most part, and he really only goes LOLHONOR over psykers, because apparently using warp powers is cheating.

tl;dr they do have duality, but they're still a bunch of Mythosesque pricks who're trying to fuck the galaxy now because the Emperor screwed them over when they made a deal and they mad.

>> No.15656108

>>15656090
Clearly they are a Tzeentchian cult dedicated to progress at any cost.

ESPECIALLY at any cost.

>offeChas science

They have a new subsidiary apparently.

>> No.15656115

>what if there was a warrior of Khorne that marched into an Imperial settlement, challenged the mightiest warlord of the place, beat him in the fight, then left without killing anyone else?

Like Skulltaker?

>Or a Slaaneshi guy that's perfectly reasonable except for a bit of sex and drugs and rock'n'roll?

Slaanesh isn't about drugs and sex, it's about pleasure and excess there's no 'a bit' about it.

>Some more reasonable Chaos bunch joining forces with the Imperium to beat back some Tyranids and Necrons?

Chaos doesn't mean you automatically hate everyone, that's more of the Imperial's problem in that case.

>Oh wait, not grimdark enough.

If you don't like grimdark then I don't know why you're into 40k.

>> No.15656118

>>15656108
WE DO WHAT WE MUST, BECAUSE, JUST PLANNED.

>> No.15656137

>>15656078
Second. Hard.

Go read the news posts on FFG's site about Black Crusade. They give fantastic examples of sympathetic individuals turning to chaos for meaningful reasons.

>> No.15656147
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15656147

>>15655931
Your arguments are very valid, and I approve of your prose.

>> No.15656148

>>15656118
It's either that or they're actually dedicated to finding new and inventive ways to collect on their facilities various insurances.

>> No.15656154

How about a Slaaneshi cultist that loves the pain of abstinence in the face of temptation. Addicted to everything under the sun, going cold turkey, and loving every minute of it.

>> No.15656169

>>15656115
>If you don't like grimdark then I don't know why you're into 40k.

I like the black comedy.

>> No.15656173

This bothers me too, how can chaos be seen as a threat if anyone who is corrupted eventually goes insane?

There have to be strong-minded rational individuals in chaos otherwise no new cultists would convert, the entire faction would be reduced to a glorified loony bin.

I swear I managed to phrase this better once, but oh well.

>> No.15656186

>>15656173
Fabius Bile and Ahriman, while having warped minds, seem to be actually capable of acting rationally instead of killing everything.

>> No.15656187

>>15656173
>no new cultists would convert

Why not? Power and immortality are pretty big draws.

>> No.15656188

>>15656169
Grimdark, black comedy and utter absurdity are all fine parts of 40k. Depending on what bit of fluff you're reading they appear in different measures.

>> No.15656192

>>15656187

Don't all those who die end up in the warp anyway? Plenty of time to convert to chaos then.

>> No.15656194

>>15656173
No. Only the weak go insane.

>> No.15656201

>>15656192
It's usually like being tossed into a wood chipper, but...being the Warp and all, I guess weirder things have been done in it.

>> No.15656203

>>15656194

>sanity is for the weak

Paradox detected.

>> No.15656205

>>15656194
There's a difference between 'insane' and 'frothing rabid animalistic KILLL EEVEERRYTHHHIINGGG IN SSIIIIGGGHT', though

>> No.15656218

>>15655931
Who can really see a warrior devoted to Khorne walking into an Imperium controlled hive or something, or a Empire controlled town/war camp, and demanding an honorable duel with out being jumped on and cut to tiny pieces by the guards? That shit would never go down OP.
Everyone knows that the poor warrior will be fucked over by the assholes of the Imperium/Empire before he even got to say a word. Stupid Imperium.

>> No.15656223

>>15656187
People are desperate and ignorant to the risks they're taking. For most people life is shitty. Selling your soul to some dark god who promises you power overwhelming doesn't seem like a bad trade when you've got nothing else to lose.

>> No.15656240

>>15656192
Most souls can't maintain consistency in the warp and just kinda dissolve.

>> No.15656242

>>15656218
I always loved the idea of Khornes champions almost entirely ignoring civilian populations in favor of dropping into heavy fortified areas. Planning out the raid to a point of perfection in order to take on forces that should by all rights slaughter them.

Khornes favored should want opponents worthy of Khorne. Worthy of Khorne should mean something beyond "I WUNT BLOOD" it should be about rage. Khorne wants you to rage against your enemy and he also wants your enemy to rage against you. Where civilians would fall into despair, and feed Nurgle, a standing, fortified and confident army will fight with hot blood, hot blood that is WORTHY of Khorne!

>> No.15656254

>>15656242
Maybe we'll see a return to that fluff with the new book. It'd be pretty damn awesome, jes. Jes. JES.

>> No.15656260

>>15656242
>Massacre the civilians
>Defenders and loved ones feel great rage
>They totally come at you harder than ever bro
>Blood for the blood god

>> No.15656278

>>15656242
Word.

I'm glad FFG's chaos book will be out soon. I'm tired of having the same conversation with every grimderp chaos obsessed tweenage 40kid.

Chaos as actual people is the only way to go. Grimderp evil for its own sake is just shitty.

>Khorne's pretty cool
Yeah Blood for the blood god!
>Well yeah the berzerkers are pretty cool too I guess. I always liked the honourable warrior route personally. Like the ones who only collect worthy skulls for khorne.
Dude everyone who worships khorne is a berzerker.
>Everyone? Really? Where did you read that?
Dude he's the blood god. All of his followers are bloodcrazed maniacs.
>Except no?
Dude!
>But... isn't that boring, stupid, illogical, boring again and boring a third time for good measure? Also look at all this fluff that says you're wrong.
Nope. They're all berzerkers. Don't give me that bullshit.

Ugh,

>> No.15656292
File: 378 KB, 718x1072, Khorne.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656292

>>15656260
>Massacre the weakling civilians who put up no fight and were basically defenseless before you, providing no challenge.
>You are dishonored before Khorne, who feels great rage at your incompetence and butchery of those too weak to fight back, who you SHOULD be inspiring to rise up against Imperial fascism and stagnation.
>Karanak devours your flesh and gnaws on your bones in retribution. You are left to roam the warp as an eternally tortured soul, even below the wretched Furies.
>BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.

>> No.15656294

>People wanting Chaos to be reasonable and logical
>Chaos is supposed to be the most unreasonable and illogical faction in an already unreasonable and illogical setting

why.jpg

>> No.15656299

Implying the orks aren't the only good guys faction in the game.

Seriously, everyone is so angst and dark, killing everyone in the most cruel ways, even the citizens. At least orks do it for the lulz.

>> No.15656304

>>15656260

>Kill his father
>Give the child his sword
>"Learn to use this, then find me".
>In time we'll fight as equals
>Blood for the Blood God

>> No.15656307

>>15656292

YES! YEEEESSS!!

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOOOD GOD

DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES TOO?! RAISE UP AGAINST THE EMPEROR, LET THE BLOOD FLOW WITH THAT OF HIS SLAVES.

That's just perfect.

>> No.15656308

>>15656292

No, that's doing it wrong. Kill the women and children, until the hatred and agony of the men is so much, they'd fight anything, kill anyone, to eclipse the shame.

Forge a new army from them, and head off to murder the world.

Khorne doesn't care where the blood comes from, only that it is shed.

>>15656294

Because some people *love* the idea of special snowflakes and noble demons. They want to personify what's impossible to put a face on; They want to believe that the enemy is 'like them', when the enemy only wants your dripping hearts.

>> No.15656310

>>15656294
The GODS are illogical but the followers are varied depending on how far down the path they are.

Someone who is totally lost to their god is as random and illogical as their god, a mere puppet to the will of that god. The followers of the Gods are more interesting in my mind when they are pretty far down the path but still using odd logical steps in order to justify their actions. They are far enough along to be a puppet but only because of really questionable leaps of logic.

>> No.15656316

>>15656308

Dude, you didn't get the point, you're still stuck with GW's grimdark edgy concept.

We're trying to change it!

>> No.15656322

>>15656294
Because otherwise it's difficult to suspend any disbelief that they even have followers. There's intentionally unreasonable and illogical settings and then there's unreasonable and illogical writing. This is the latter. Chaos is eldrich and unfathomable, but its servants aren't. Or shouldn't be anyway.

Kicking puppies levels of evil is just stupid.

And the most important argument of all, caps locked for emphasis:

MAKING ALL OF CHAOS BEHAVE THE SAME GRIMDERP EVIL WAY IS LAUGHABLY COUNTER TO WHAT CHAOS IS. IT IS COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS TO MAKE THE CLAIM THAT ALL OF CHAOS OPERATES IN A PREDICTABLE, UNIFORM AND ORDERLY FASHION.

>> No.15656334
File: 349 KB, 135x101, 1311254756661.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656334

>>15656308
>noble demons
You know, maybe you're right. They ARE mythosesque horror, so trying to make the concepts we can glean from them, and their followers, less objectively abominable is probably a farfetched id-

>special snowflakes
... Uhuh.

>> No.15656335

>>15656322
>Thinks that Chaos is Discord not Emotion
>laughingplaguebearers.jpeg
Those dudes are fucking humanities desire to bring order to the universe manifest.

>> No.15656336

>>15656308

You and fuckers like you. are responsible for the most grievous misunderstanding of Khornate philosophy

>Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, only that it is shed.

THIS IS NOT A CARTE BLANCHE TO MURDER THE WEAK.

It is saying that Khorne doesn't care if it is his followers that die instead of the enemy. All that matters is the battle is fought, that the battle is good.

The killing of defenceless children is less pleasing to him that of honourable combat between equally matched sides.

That's not to say his followers wouldn't kill children but understand what it actually means. Khorne is a god of battle and war. You don't have that killing the weak.

>> No.15656337

>>15656308
>Doing it wrong

You're actually saying that there is only one way to portray gods of the realm of chaos. Chaos!

...

What do you think the word chaos means you buffoon?

>> No.15656344

Both ideas for Khorne followers work. Both ideas make "sense" in the framework of that god. This is why I like Chaos in the setting. If you can come up with a halfassed reason for your follower acting the way he does, the twisted half warp mad follower will find that reason perfectly sensible.

The gods don't really care. Any sense of order to the way the gods works comes from human followers trying to make sense of the voices and whispers in their head.

>> No.15656346

>>15656304
>Kill the child before the father's eyes
>Have glorious combat now, not allowing the emotional wounds to heal
>Khorne's favoured survives and continues to rage throughout the starts
>BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.

>> No.15656347

>>15656335
Psst... chaos is a word. It means a thing.

Emotion is what daemons are conjured from. It is not the whole of what the warp is. The warp is quite unfathomable. Stop trying to declare that it is only this one narrow concept.

>> No.15656355

>>15656322
>it's difficult to suspend any disbelief

Why? Chaos is by its nature corruptive and again people generally like the thoughts of power and immortality.

>> No.15656358

Guys.

Guys.

You're all wrong.

But you're all right too.

It's CHAOS. It's the absolute essence of Entropy. It can do literally ANYTHING. Khorne can decide for a split second that he really wants to pet a kitten. There can be noble daemons, there can be pacifist daemons.

It's CHAOS. LOGIC DOES NOT APPLY.

>> No.15656360

>>15656337
What if "Chaos" is just a tacked on name they were given by the imperium? As I see it, the gods themselves have very clearly defined fields and behaviours (with the possible exception of Slaanesh, but even he is "rational" to a certain degree).
I think the problem lies with the followers. They're all more or less mortals, ill-equipped to deal with the full brunt of warp-influence and they power they gain from chaos. So they go insane and start behaving, well, chaotically.

But if you look at the strong-willed Chaosites, the champions and the like, they're very reasonable. Sure, they have their goals, like eternal war, spreading sickness, etc. but that's a question of relative morality not order or chaos.

>> No.15656361

>>15656347
There is a difference between chaos and Chaos of the warhammer universes.

>> No.15656362

>>15656304
You may have given me the desire to play Black Crusade once it comes out, and an idea for a character.

>> No.15656367

>>15656355
How exactly do you think corruption works?

One day you're a noble servant of the Emperor and the next you're killing children for Khorne because he 'cares not from where the blood flows' or something?

There's no middleground for you? Power and immortality are the only possible things that could motivate someone to worship elder gods? Absolutely no grey areas? Within 24 hours of vaguely thinking "gosh, praying to Khorne right now might save my family from these dark eldar raiders" you are a frothing madman berzerker for the rest of your life?

Damn bro. That's silly.

I recognize I'm strawmanning your position but like... it's kinda silly to begin with.

>> No.15656373

>>15656336
Khorne is a god of rage and hate, the slaughter of women and children is a good way to generate angry fathers and brothers.

>> No.15656374

>>15656361
>Stop trying to declare that it is only this one narrow concept.

Seriously dude. Read more fluff. Read like... any fluff.

>> No.15656377

Chaos is not inherently evil, they're just the extremes of normal human desires and emotions. Everyone is worshipping a "Chaos" god to some extent, since they embody literally every prevalent theme in the universe. Hell, Space Marines, the pure and valiant defenders of mankind, would probably make for great Khornates, just switch "For the Emperor" with "For Khorne", that's literally all that's needed.

>> No.15656392

>>15656373
Khorne is a god of rage and hate among a myriad of other things. Reducing him to "war, slaughter and haaaate!" is imperial propaganda.

>> No.15656394

>>15656373
And therefore ALL of his followers ALWAYS slaughter children.

Right.

The two positions in this thread are

"Khorne is complex. He likes many things including mindless slaughter"

"Nuh uh Khorne only wants mindless slaughter"

One is boring shit for 12 year old boys.

The other is the actual fluff.

>> No.15656399

>>15656377
Your fury thrills me, fills me with amusement and desire. Come now, priest, rake my face with your nails, gouge and tear my skin. If you hate me as you say, then take out my eyes and rip out my hair! Burn them on your fire. Show me you have passion, priest. Show me you feel fear. I can read your every anxiety, for you are no warrior to fight me. Even now your stuttering spirit edges to the throne of my master!

>> No.15656400

>>15656377
This. Chaos is the most interesting faction if you look behind the hole "durr, so evul"-crap. They're actually incredibly complex.

>> No.15656402

>>15656394
>One is boring shit for 12 year old boys.

>The other is the actual fluff.

Whom do you think the fluff is for, again?

>> No.15656403
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15656403

>Like, what if there was a warrior of Khorne that marched into an Imperial settlement, challenged the mightiest warlord of the place, beat him in the fight, then left without killing anyone else? Or a Slaaneshi guy that's perfectly reasonable except for a bit of sex and drugs and rock'n'roll? Some more reasonable Chaos bunch joining forces with the Imperium to beat back some Tyranids and Necrons? What'd be so wrong about that?

I love how /tg/ rags on about Matt Ward this and Matt Ward that, and when you speak up about your own ideas they are absolutely fuckin' terrible. Stay classy, /tg/.

>> No.15656404

>>15656367
>How exactly do you think corruption works?

Anything from a slow seduction to looking into the warp or getting hit with a daemonic spell.

Of course there is middle ground, you start off slow but there is an almost universal degradation to a tool of your god. In Khorne's instance he wants rage and so no matter the nobility of your ideals you'll eventually succumb to mindless blood letting.

>> No.15656405

>>15656394
This guy phrased it about as well as I think it could be. Although there might be some strawmanning, still.

>> No.15656406

>>15656377

No, no, the Chaos Gods as they stand are totally evil.

They just exist because they're the most powerful warp entities at present, and they feed off common emotions.

There's no naturalistic reason why they should need to continue existing. They aren't a constant.

If powerful enough warp sorcery/technology is used against them, they could be destroyed and the warp calmed. They wouldn't pop back into existence because 'lol emotions'. Slaanesh required quite an orgy to manifest, and there are a couple of hints of sorcerous magicks that were the actual spark that brought her into existence.

If the Tyranids ate everything, the Chaos Gods would fade away. If the Necrons destroyed all life (properly this time) the Chaos Gods would cease to exist.

>> No.15656409

>>15656373

Your failure to understand our master will be your undoing. Your blindness will only lead you down the path of weakness. Whilst you may sate your axe on the weak blood of the young and old and ill, mine shall be honed on the iron will of those I deem worthy enough to please our lord.

One day my frothing idiotic short sighted friend we shall meet, and when we do, it will be your weakling skull that shall be delivered to our masters throne...

>> No.15656414

>>15656402
Yes well done. The fluff has been getting shitty by focusing on garbage and dulling down chaos and has caused threads like these to complain about it.

You have successfully understood the reason this thread was started. Now would you care to participate in it?

>> No.15656420

>>15656406

>There is no good and evil. Only power and those too weak to seek it.

>> No.15656421

>>15656406
What if Chaos gods are all tragically misunderstood? They're actually neutral parties, simple embodiments of human vices, facets and passions, but all their followers just see the evil parts and the power that comes with it. So they embrace being evil, take the power, go batshit bonkers and spread the word to everyone else.

The thought of the chaos gods being depressed about the constant stupidity of their followers and their resulting inability to make any friends amuses me.

>> No.15656422

>Slaaneshi guy that's perfectly reasonable except for a bit of sex and drugs and rock'n'roll

Isn't slaanesh the prince of excess per chance?

If the warp could be safely controlled everyone would be just praying to the chaos gods but the way things are , even if at first you're only a bit into it, ugly things always lurk down the road.

It's how people get drawn into cults, at first it's wild sex and intense pleasure but then you can't pull out and things get messy

>> No.15656424

>>15656409

I believe the point is that the gods don't care. Khorne genuinely doesn't give a damn whether the stern avatar of death, or the gibbering madman is in the 'right'. As long as you keep killing people, he's happy. It doesn't matter if you challenge the finest warriors or murder children. It's all the same to him- It's blood, and blood is there to be shed.

>> No.15656429

>>15656394
>And therefore ALL of his followers ALWAYS slaughter children.

No, but there is nothing more Khorney about not killing children. Killing children is merely a good way to create rage which is what Khorne wants.

The two positions in this thread to me are:

"Chaos is fine how it is, it doesn't need to be logical or reasonable."

and

"It doesn't make any sense."

Good.

>> No.15656430

>>15656424
Indeed.

But to say that Khorne prefers mindless slaughter, frothing berzerkers etc is fucking stupid for that reason alone.

>> No.15656431

40k has no mother goddesses.

It is the embodiment of daddy issues, and all the fluff follows from this.

This results in crap for twelve year olds. Deal with it.

>> No.15656433

>>15656431

No. Fuck off feminist.

>> No.15656438

>>15656433

Go on, go whine to your giant daddy in the sky with his twenty sons, all of them with giant daddy issues.

You know you just want the Emperor to have sex with you lovingly.

>> No.15656439

>>15656429
No one is saying Khornates can't kill children. Hell they can kill all the children they want.

It's the "Every Khorne follower would be delighted to slaughter children" shit that we're laughing at and mocking. Not every follower of chaos is exactly the damned same.

>> No.15656441

>>15656430

Khorne doesn't have a 'preference'. I'm not even sure if the 'value' to a kill is anything other than arbitary, in fact. There might not be a difference between quality/quantity, other than the caparicious eye of the warp.

So, the knight in molten brass kills the finest warriors, and he's blessed for it- Which makes him think that it's the quality that matters. The frenzied berserker kills anything in his way, and is equally blessed...So he thinks that it's the quantity that counts, if he's even thinking at that point.

It might be either. It might be neither. It might simply be luck, that Khorne happened to be looking their way at the moment.

>> No.15656442

>>15656431
Isha

>> No.15656453

>>15656438

Do I look like a film screen to you? No? Then stop projecting.

>> No.15656455

>>15656442

Stuck in cage, footnote who barely figures into anything, doesn't count.

>> No.15656458

>>15656441
Indeed.

The only problem with the "mindless slaughter blood for the blood god" crowd is they insist on speaking in absolutes. There can be no compromise. Khorne can ONLY be their narrow interpretation.

Which is boring and contrary to established fluff.

>> No.15656461

>>15656431
Slaanesh, one of the big four.

>> No.15656463

>>15656455
>Disproves point. Doesn't count.

Baby's first debate?

>> No.15656469
File: 220 KB, 224x161, 1311256447994.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656469

>>15656453

>> No.15656476

>>15656463
Either that or a troll.

>> No.15656480

>>15656461

Slaanesh is a mother goddess.

The christ.

>> No.15656484

You KHORNE CARES ONLY FOR SLAUGHTER types are the reason I don't let new people into my rpg group without screening them anymore.

It's just so terribly boring, uninspired and ultimately ignorant.

>> No.15656493

>>15656480
From a certain, rather perverse perspective.

>> No.15656496

>>15656409
Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows. Strong, weak, innocent, guilty, pure, corrupt. All die, all are slaughtered, all bleed, ALL RAGE AGAINST THERE FATE FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN MIGHTY KHORNE WISHES IT SO.

YOU WOULD SPARE THEM KHORNE'S WRATH? YOU WOULD NOT GIVE THEIR SKULLS UP TO HIM? THEN WHEN WE MEET I SHALL HAVE ASCENDED TEN THOUSAND TIMES IN MIGHTY KHORNE'S FAVOUR WHILE YOU WALLOW AMONGST THE FILTH OR THE DEAD.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD. SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE.

>> No.15656497

>>15656480
Come to Mommy little boy. Let Mommy's sweet milk make everything better.

>> No.15656516

>>15656493

No, there is no perspective where Slaanesh is a mother goddess.

There is no fertility link, no link to maternity, no associations with anything besides excess and perfection.

>>15656497

...of course, Goddess of Mommy Issues might count.

>> No.15656532

>>15656439
>>15656458

I have seen no one ever actually do that. I've seen plenty of threads bitching about how people do that and instead putting forward the idea how Khorne followers should be noble champions because that's better and makes more sense.

>> No.15656548

>>15656496

Whilst you would glory in victories won against children. You think you please him with just slaughter. Why not destroy the planet from orbit with weapons from far away. Are the deaths not the same. I think it would better fit a coward like you, for clearly you fear a hard won victory against men and alien, axe to axe, blade to blade, with those who can defend themselves.

Ascend? The only thing you will be granted is madness. The only thing you shall be gifted is spawndom, so you may act like the beast you are.

You call yourself a warrior of Khorne. I spit on you and all like you and the hollow glories you proclaim. Khorne will be well pleased when I serve up your false skull as an offering in his name.

>> No.15656551

>>15656484
I can see Khorne as being most concerned with bloodshed, with less concern over where it comes from. That's rational. The problem is the idea that all of Khorne's FOLLOWERS are only concerned with bloodshed and savagery, because that's simply not true. Khorne has different aspects, because he's made up of different emotions, concepts and philosophies revolving around war, blood, honor, and wrathful emotions. These all come from many different people, some followers, some not. Khorne's followers are more likely to prescribe to one aspect- the honorable warrior, the berserker, the methodical warlords, or what have you- but Khorne himself, as I see it, cannot be examined such. Personally, I like the characters who go a step beyond slaughtering everything in sight regardless of what it is, or who orchestrate grander conflict for the purpose of conflict, perhaps. Whatever his aspects are and whatever he values, though, we know a few things for sure. He likes battle. He likes blood. He likes cataclysmic war. And these things he shall have.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

>> No.15656557

>>15656532
It's... in this very thread.

>> No.15656567

>>15656548
>>15656496
I'd just like to give you both some props.

While we're having our bitchfest argument you guys are roleplaying it out, and that's kinda cool.

>> No.15656568

>>15656463

Let me amend my point to '40k has no mother goddesses that do anything of SIGNIFICANCE'.

Tell me something interesting Isha has done, with relevance outside footnote status. Tell me someone she has affected personally.

>> No.15656577

>>15656568
Nurgle.

>> No.15656579

>>15656568

The Eldar.

All of them.

>> No.15656595

>>15656568
Man, those goal posts must be heavy, how do you keep moving them like that?

>> No.15656602

Actually OP, that was pretty much the fluff in the ondée books.
And because of their duality, chaos sprnt as much time fighting each other as they did anyone else.

Nurgle isn't just Nice uncle though, hé was hope.
Well, hope and the Will to live.

Slaanesh is motherless, but still aspires to fun and enjoyment, so even playing ball with your dog is slaanesh.

>> No.15656612

>>15656577

i walked into that one

but anyway dude 'with relevance outside footnote status'

>>15656579

srsly

how so

don't they all think she's dead

i'm not sure how that counts as 'outside of a footnote'

>>15656595

man clarifying the point is not goalpost moving

goalpost moving would be 'nuh nuh she doesn't count at all'

>> No.15656635

>>15656612
So, taking you at your word for something you said earlier, then reneged on- makes me the asshole?

>> No.15656641

>>15656595
Eh.. I sorta see his point. Lets not be complete dicks. He's just incorrect, not an asshole.

Isha is a mother goddess. She does have an important role in the dynamic of Entropy in the universe because of her relationship with Nurgle. When logic is applied to the fluff (I know I know) she is of no small importance.

However, just as GW doesn't focus on any of the cool parts of chaos anymore to make it more grimderp, they also don't focus on Isha or other stuff that wont appeal directly to tween boys.

So in a way the point is valid.

>> No.15656661

>>15656635
Don't think anyone called you an asshole bub. Relax.

This guy has a point about how the fluff is perceived even if we can prove him wrong in practice.

>> No.15656665

>>15656635
nobody has called anybody an asshole in this thread

calm down

>> No.15656672

I'm at the point where I'm almost convinced that there are no women in 40k. Just extremely effeminate males.

>> No.15656691

>>15656672

Sisters of Battle. Various Arbites, like Calpurnia.

>> No.15656697

>>15656672
> No women in 40k
Ah shit Outside of the SOB, Dawn of war and Ciphias cain, I can't think of any

>> No.15656698

>>15656672
There are thousands of women scattered across the 40k universe. Thousands!

There are the sisters of battle, several assassins, some inquisitors and so on.

There aren't quite as many women as space marines but there are several.

Now black people... there are less than a dozen black people in all of canon. And I'm including box art in the canon because I'm feeling generous.

>> No.15656700

>>15656548
My victories will be won against all, fool, until such a time as another more favoured great Khorne’s eyes slaughter me and adds my skull to the Skull Throne.
Khorne will accept all skulls, all blood, all slaughter, all rage. He cares not for your petty notions of nobility.

While you waste your time picking and choosing those you see as worthy, I will have already drowned entire worlds in blood, ALL FOR THE GLORY OF KHORNE.

I HAVE NO NEED TO CALL MYSELF A WARRIOR OF KHORNE, FOR ALL WHO LOOK UPON ME KNOW IT, ALL FEEL MY DIVINE TASK AND KNOW RAGE AND DEATH AND BLOOD AND THE UNIVERSE WILL QUAKE.

HAHAHA, as of my eventual fate? It matters not. All that matters is that the blood flows. Mine or yours, the strong or the weak, the bold or the pathetic, it matters not. IT MATTERS NOT SO LONG AS THE BLOOD FLOWS UNENDINGLY FOR THE BLOOD GOD.

>> No.15656709
File: 130 KB, 700x888, TechPriest-AkiZeta5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656709

>>15656672
Thanks for the excuse.

>> No.15656717
File: 184 KB, 900x1273, Mitionnary_Battle_Sister_by_40k_kun.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656723
File: 88 KB, 436x900, inquisitrix.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656729
File: 501 KB, 600x825, 1311258345061.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656729

>>15656700

Chapter Master Kyras? Is that you?

I thought you were cleverer than this.

>> No.15656733

But, can you prove that these women aren't just dudes whose geneseeds granted them shock absorbers for frontal impact?

>> No.15656735
File: 100 KB, 800x800, 1311258356271.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656742
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>> No.15656743

>>15656672

Don't forget that the Living Saints thus far- The ones we've seen, anyway- are all female. Come to think of it, there hasn't been a male Saint appearing- They've been referenced, like Thor, but none have actually turned up in person.

>> No.15656751
File: 78 KB, 394x750, 1311258456412.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>15656742

>> No.15656755
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>> No.15656758

>>15656743

I can't think of any important figures in the overarching mythology though. Maybe a footnote like Isha here and there, or the Living Saints which nobody really cares about.

The Horus Heresy was really just a giant hissy fit against daddy.

>> No.15656766
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>> No.15656773
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>> No.15656779
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>> No.15656784
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>> No.15656789
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>> No.15656799
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>> No.15656807
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>> No.15656812
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>> No.15656815
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>> No.15656819
File: 56 KB, 700x405, 1283234232826.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656819

Oh, are we dumping female 40k characters?

>> No.15656822
File: 244 KB, 1024x1463, rt04_into_the_storm_2_by_1mpact-d306tuq.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656822

>> No.15656823

>>15656815

>Dmitrys
>no horsecock

I am confused.

>> No.15656825

>Am I the only one that'd like to see Chaos become a little more sympathetic? All we have right now is absolutely evil shits that worship horrible ruinous powers and want to kill everything.

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

TAKE YOUR FAGGOT CONCEPTS LIKE CHARACTER DEPTH AND DEVELOPMENT AWAY FROM MY BELOVED 40K!!!!!

THE ONLY THINGS THAT BELONG IN WARHAMMER IS GRIM, DARK, AND GRIMDARK YOU INSUFFERABLE FAGGOT!!!

>> No.15656827
File: 498 KB, 600x847, 1265417613093.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656828
File: 45 KB, 600x752, WH40K_Sisters_Repentia_sketch_by_faroldjo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656828

>>15656819
That's the plan.

>> No.15656833
File: 178 KB, 900x1281, 2000_hits_by_davenported-d38rg25.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656835
File: 417 KB, 768x968, 1311259029548.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>15656823
Every time.

>> No.15656841
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>> No.15656845
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>> No.15656846
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>> No.15656852
File: 170 KB, 836x1210, 1241730470763.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656854
File: 271 KB, 765x1566, haemonculus_fran_by_dry850610-d40l7ma.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656856
File: 56 KB, 525x750, Enforcer_-_VP_Corbella.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656858
File: 111 KB, 842x595, 127151443299.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656859

>>15656845

Is that guy's nether regions aflame with the power of the Warp?

>> No.15656860
File: 96 KB, 700x413, wsg001_civilians.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656864
File: 419 KB, 700x963, 1266078641461.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656866
File: 283 KB, 2090x1230, derosasketch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656866

>>15656859
Chaos!

>>15656854
bueno.jpg

>> No.15656871
File: 335 KB, 1000x697, 1266937429326.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656872
File: 292 KB, 1600x942, derosasketch2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656876
File: 468 KB, 785x800, 1258364391427.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656877
File: 56 KB, 391x778, 1268450565452.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656877

>>15656866
Seeing those alternate concepts, it was really sad they went for such a boring design for Derosa in the end.

>> No.15656882
File: 258 KB, 800x1081, Enforcer_by_OmeN2501.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656884
File: 329 KB, 732x731, 1283389782930.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656891
File: 320 KB, 600x943, Ophelia_Imperial_Pyschker_by_Kharnate.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656891

>>15656877
I wasn't aware that they were official concept art

>> No.15656892
File: 160 KB, 460x672, 1290379031399.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656897
File: 87 KB, 567x667, 1311259544370.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>15656877

mm, that's the same design

'different hairstyle' does not count as a different design

at least not for me

>> No.15656898
File: 102 KB, 873x627, 1311259547841.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656899
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>> No.15656917
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>> No.15656924
File: 66 KB, 900x771, 1311259738267.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>15656897
Look at the one on the far end. Bionic eye, different outfit (veil, head dress, the neckline looks lower - generally more bizarre and esoteric looking), ear piercings, and a few other little things. It's just an all-round more interesting design. The one they went with is terribly dull, and makes her look more like some mid-level Administratum functionary.

>> No.15656928
File: 324 KB, 767x1300, karis_concept_2_by_dexterkong-d3cx6au.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656929
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>> No.15656938
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>> No.15656939
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>> No.15656943
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>> No.15656944
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>> No.15656949
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>> No.15656950
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>> No.15656952

First I made a post claiming that there weren't any women in 40k. Then I sat back and watched the thread get derailed.

I have done what no other could. I trolled /tg/.

>> No.15656953
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>> No.15656958
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>> No.15656966
File: 48 KB, 600x304, 1311260080237.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>15656952
Or gave people an excuse to salvage a thread being trolled.

>> No.15656970

>>15656924

I think you uploaded the wrong picture because I can't see what you're talking about.

>>15656952

Trolled /tg/ into contributing a valuable thread. Well done.

>> No.15656972
File: 382 KB, 744x700, 1276213524534.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656972

>>15656952
/tg/'s thread derail all the time. It's possible the thread might have devolved into bickering and arguing anyway; instead, it's turned into a civil image dump. If anything, you've prevented the thread from being trolled.

>> No.15656976
File: 127 KB, 900x608, 1311260148433.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656977

>>15656966
Wait, you mean... damn your impregnable troll defenses, /tg/! You used me all along!!

>> No.15656979

Orks are the only good guys in 40K.

Sure, they will kill entire planets worth of civilians, but that's only because they honestly believe the people on the planet are enjoying themselves while they are fighting. They only want to spread the love and let everyone have a piece of the action.

>> No.15656980
File: 42 KB, 400x667, 1311260200666.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
15656980

>>15656924
No. I mean this image here: >>15656866. The one my original post about Derosa linked back to.

>> No.15656982
File: 329 KB, 683x1085, 1311260203312.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15656991
File: 508 KB, 500x700, eldar_ranger_by_arkatrine_the_unpure-d2z0yb9.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>15656980
Er. Meant to reply to >>15656970, not my own post.

>> No.15656992
File: 581 KB, 1600x1800, 1311260285193.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>> No.15657006

I don't think sympathetic makes sense for them. They're comedy versions of Sam Neill in Event Horizon. You could make them into victims I suppose, trapped by Darkness whether they like it or not, even as they revel in it.

Orks could be made WAY more sympathetic though, like in Dawn of War: Retribution. I've always thought of them as having been designed long ago to be the Galaxy's immune system - they hate chaos and other things from outside like nids. But like any immune system, they can turn on themselves and their host, an autoimmune disorder on a giant scale.

>> No.15657011

>>15656980

Ah.

I don't like it. She looks like a Navigator dignitary or a Mechanicus high level diplomat.

She actually IS supposed to be a mid-level Administratum functionary you know. She just shot herself into Governorship after the entire Sector leadership fled.

>> No.15657013
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>> No.15657016
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>> No.15657029
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>>15657011
She was the aide to the governor himself, so I'm guessing that she was pretty high ranking. She wasn't nobility herself either, unless I'm mistaken, which is usually what's required to stop yourself from being augmented up to perform your role better.

>> No.15657039
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15657039

>>15657011
>She just shot herself into Governorship after the entire Sector leadership fled.

Right. That'd explain it, I suppose. It's still a bit disappointing though, IMO. The Imperium's at its most interesting when it's at its weirdest.

>> No.15657044
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>> No.15657045
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>> No.15657049

>>15657044

Not 40k, fyi.

>> No.15657055
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>> No.15657061
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>> No.15657062
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>>15657039
There has been a distinct lack of heavily augmented humans in recent years, at least art wise.

>> No.15657068
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>> No.15657071
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>> No.15657078
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>>15657113

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>>15657162

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>>15657276

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>> No.15657401

>>15657389

Where'd you get the Relic concept arts btw?

I dig them.

>> No.15657412
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>> No.15657425
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>>15657401
Just found 'em on /tg/, same with most of my stuff.

>> No.15657441
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whatthefuckamireading.jpg

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>> No.15657456

>>15657425
I wish a high quality PDF of Blood of Martyrs had been release. So much lovely art, so much of it marred by low quality compression.

>> No.15657458
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>>15657456
It's a shame, yea.

>> No.15657477
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>> No.15657483

We killed thousands, yet still they came. A living tide of traitors, herded by armored giants in red armor like so much cattle into the teeth of our guns, chanting that damnable litany that infests my head still. They waded, knee deep in blood, yet still they came. All to the horrid cadence of pounding drums, a driving beat that stretched the nerves of my men to the breaking point, and a droning mindless chant. Yet for all the cruel disregard their masters showed, every traitor died with a beatific smile upon his face...

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>> No.15657512
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>> No.15657522

>Like, what if there was a warrior of Khorne that marched into an Imperial settlement, challenged the mightiest warlord of the place, beat him in the fight, then left without killing anyone else?

That happened, word for word, though it was in Warhammer Fantasy.
A Khorne champion marched in and killed an cruel Bretonnian lord in single combat, then buggered off.

>> No.15657524
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>> No.15657525
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15657525

Slaaneshi cultist but also a total bro

>> No.15657533
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>> No.15657544
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>> No.15657554
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>> No.15657567

And there's the image limit. Enjoy.

>> No.15658175

>>15656053
>implying you don't suck dicks.

>>
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