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15512930 No.15512930 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What is /tg/'s opinion on the alternate history fanfluff by some fags on the Bolter and Chainsword forums? Personally, I think it has its faults (I'm looking at you, Brothers Goge Vandire and Sebastian Thor of the Word Bearers), but is still pretty cool.

>> No.15512941

Uniformly awful.

>> No.15512948

Fuck that artwork is amazing.

>> No.15512952

some cool ideas, some interesting twists and a few good cultural references, but poor writing, and very heterogenous fluff, some plot-holes, some inconsistencies. Like canon fluff, actually.

but most of /tg/ hates it for another reason: "LORGAR MURDERED MAI SORORITA WAIFU BAWWW!"

>> No.15512965

>>15512930
Utterly pointless marine wankery. Why come up with something new and interesting when you can flip the Horus Heresy around?

>> No.15512972

>>15512930
The Dornian Heresy is retardedly awful.

>> No.15512977

>>15512972
Horus' Heresy is, too.

>> No.15512982

Is fucking awful. Turns everyone important into MEHREENS. Has shit like "BLOOD ANGELS GO NURGLE BECAUSE THAT'S SO UNIQUE AND UNEXPECTED".

>> No.15512984

I'd much rather see a reimagining where the Horus Heresy ended in a proper stalemate, and a cold war ensued. Horus and Emps were both crippled. Pretty much a universe where the Horus Heresy continues, and the fighting never stopped long enough for the Imperium to catch its breath and institute galactic wide reforms.

>> No.15512991

>>15512977
The books? Yeah, you're damn right.
Why the fuck wouldn't it have been the Sanguinian Hersy, anyways? He was the real loyalist equivalent.

>> No.15512995

>>15512982
actually, nurglite blood angels make at least as much sense as khornate or slaaneshi blood angels. Fluff-wise, and flavor-wise.

but making it all just as planned by Nurgle since the very beginning was stupid and asspulled.

>> No.15512997

>>15512984
Because the Imperium'd lose.

>> No.15512999

>>15512984
so.. 40k but Horus is a cripple instead of dead?

>> No.15513006
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15513006

>>15512952
If Sisters are all dead, does this mean Female Space marines are aloud?

>> No.15513014

>>15513006
Yeah, they're aloud. They're noise marines, they yell and cry and bitch all day long about how they need to be respected, have rights and whatnot.

>> No.15513019

>>15512991
No, since Horus Heresy alliterates, it will become the Sanguinus Secession.

>> No.15513024

>>15513019
Hell, works for me. It's just that Dorn is a fucktarded choice.

>> No.15513025

The ultramarines already think that they are the most perfect creatures in all creation and that the light of the astronomicon shines out of Marneus Calgar's ass. Breaking away from the imperium to start their own techoprogressive Protestant space kingdom is something they should have done in the canon timeline a long time ago.

>>15512984
This would actually be pretty cool.

>> No.15513035

>>15513024
Not really, Dorn is competent, charismatic, and badass. But it's true that the whole "fallen angel" stuff would have worked better with Sanguinius.

>> No.15513062

>>15513035
Aaaand so was Sanguinius. He is STILL idolized by the entire Imperium. All the Marines loved him. All the PRIMARCHS loved him. HORUS loved him.

>> No.15513076

>>15513062
Dorn had a fancy powerclaw, Horus too, that's enough for me.

>> No.15513092

>>15513076
I thought he had a sword.

>> No.15513095
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15513095

>>15513076
Sangy only needs his bare hands.

>> No.15513103

>>15513092
look at the few illustrations: he had a chainsword ON his powerclaw.

>> No.15513106

>>15513062

Sanguinius was the more logical choice. Dorn was well liked, but not so much his brothers would follow him into hell. Sanguinius was the only Primarch genuinely beloved by everyone, without the tinge of jealousy or spite.

I can honestly see Russ, Lion or Vulkan siding with Sanguinius over the Emperor, but not Dorn.

>> No.15513110

>>15513095
Sure, but no matter how strong he may be in the fluff, he's still even less manly than Fulgrim, and that's saying a lot.

>> No.15513123

>>15513110
Why, because he was BEAUTIFUL?
Manliness is not proportionate to how beardy you look.

>> No.15513154

>>15513106
Well, yeah. Sanguinius was just a great guy in every way, and incredibly strong. I can see him being discovered first and becoming Warmaster.
Then Chaos.

>> No.15513162

>>15513123
He wasn't beautiful, he was pretty, not the same thing. And also because he's been reported to cry a lot. Emps too, but less often. Sanguinius is a martyr more than a hero, unlike the other primarchs.

>> No.15513175
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15513175

>>15513103
You mean pic related?
>>15513162
I thought he was the strongest Primarch other than Magnus I think.

>> No.15513186

>>15513175

Russ is the most likely candidate for the title of "strongest Primarch".

Remember that he and his legion were explicitly created to take out other legions, and their Primarchs

>> No.15513190

>>15513175
he was stronger than magnus.

about as much as Horus, actually, if not even stronger.

But still, he's a whiny victim. Every primarch can inherently kick massive amounts of ass. Saying that Sanguinius could kick more than the others is nitpicking, when talking about his supposed manliness.

>> No.15513194

>>15513186
So? That can be done with numbers and tactics adapted to counter other chapter's tactics.

>> No.15513199

>>15513175
no, I do not mean pic related at all.

Is it an illustration?

Is it Dorn?

Are those chainswords?

No, then it's not what I'm talking about, and you're stupid for even assuming that it might have been.

>> No.15513209

>>15513199
The dude in the picture, while not Dorn, wields power claws with chainsaw attachments.

>> No.15513215

>>15513209
which is about as remotely related to what I was saying as Louis XIV is related to Genghis Khan.

>> No.15513216

>>Why the fuck wouldn't it have been the >>Sanguinian Hersy, anyways? He was the real >>loyalist equivalent.

I'm going to call BS on that. Its Dorn or the whole thing doesn't quite work.
Bloodangels and Spaceyiffs are codex divergent not because they use different tactics (even if they do) but because they have so much 'touched by a chaotic element that it effects their style'. Unless like, ultramarines with Black Thirst makes sense to you. Well it would if they were chaos, wouldn't it?

Dornians are so imperial its almost BORING, but they're not the Ultramarines. Perhaps the smurfs might have done an alternative spin for the War-hampster, but for all the Elite Angel Of Death Awesomeness of the BloodAngels, it was Dorn who flew his own vessel to Earth and Discovered the Emperor (rather than the other way round).
From that point on, beating the shit out of Rogal Dorn was a way of proving you were a primarch or something, it was a standardised test.
I think that gives Dorn an interesting plot reason if nothing else, for the Dornian heresy.
Blood Angels,on the other hand should be the alt-heresys version of the cannon's version of the World eaters, with black thirst instead of psycho surgery...
Nurgle (in MY eyes) makes sense for the sons of Sang in the same way as 'Nosferatu' is a facet of vampire, as Undead are a facet of Nurgle.

If you wish to disagree, thats the point I'd like you to engage.

>> No.15513222

>>15513194

Unlikely, unless Wolves and Russ have naturally superior tactical acumen and at least equal physical prowess when compared to any other Legion and Primarch.

>> No.15513226

>>15513222
He could easily be a powerful Primarch in the big leagues with Magnus and Sanguinus, yet not the most powerful.

>> No.15513228

>>15513216
I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, except that I like BAs as nurglites a bit more than as khorneates, but that's not relevant.

>> No.15513232

>>15513216
They weren't touched by ANYTHING at that point.
Nurgle is inexcusably retarded.

>> No.15513236

>>15513216
The Red Thirst only came about because Sanguinius was killed. Before the Heresy they were fairly standard Marines. If Sangy went over to Chaos there is no garauntee the blood lust would ever kick in.

>> No.15513258

The Girlyman Heresy was fairly good I thought, a few fluff inconsistencies but overall quite entertaining.

>> No.15513266

>>15513258
>herpaderp THEY TAEK SUPERIOR TAU TECH DESU
Yeah no.

>> No.15513274

>>15513266
I said entertaining, mostly because I could imagine Matt Ward crying while reading it.

>> No.15513278

>>15513274
The fuck cares about Ward? It was unequivocally shit.

>> No.15513295

>>15513266
No, fuck you.

That's awesome and anyone who disagrees is a damn dirty little faggot.

>> No.15513306

Interesting idea, awful execution.

>> No.15513312

>>15513295
No, it's fucktarded and so are you.

>> No.15513374

>>15513312
>>I agree with everything you say and apologize for my immense retardation

Fixed.

>> No.15513380

>>15513374
>I am a huge faggot please rape my face.
FTFY

>> No.15513383

So what do you guys dislike about it?

>> No.15513387
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15513387

>in dornian heresy Ultramar breaks off from the imperium
>falters and fails horribly without the imperium

>> No.15513389

>>15513383
Everything but the art.
Art was cool.

>> No.15513404

OP, here. There seems to be a lot of hate for the Dornian Heresy. If given the power, what would you guys do to improve it?

>> No.15513414

>>15513404
make it not a "everyone who was bad is now good" story, keep a mix of tainted and untainted legions that weren't and where corrupted.

>> No.15513475

>>15513414
Yeah. For a start I don't see the Blood Angels ever turning just on the words of Dorn. Or the World Eaters ever remaining loyal.

Personally I don't think Dorn had the charisma to pull off a clean 50/50 split the way Horus did. He was no Primarchs confidant, guiding light or inspiration. Just a competent leader who gave some advice.

If anthing I could only see him filling the Lorgar role. The man who pushed the bright star into heresy, not the one to overtly start shit. Though again I don't see Lorgar as being a possible loyalist. He turned to Chaos long before Horus did.

I can very easily see Ferrus Manus as a traitor, Lion, Russ and the Khan too. Even Vulkan, Corax and Guilliman. The only canon loyalist I can't see turning is Sangy.

All the traitors I can see staying loyal except Lorgar and Angron, since most only turned on Horus' say so. If Horus stayed loyal, most of them would have too.

>> No.15513486

>>15513404
It's because it's the worst sort of fankwank: it tries to make the marines even more important. They're a big deal in 40k, sure, but they're not the be all and end all of the Imperium. That was the case back in M30-31, but not now. Humans run the Imperium now. For some people that just won't do.

>> No.15513503

Whole thread is kind of undercutting Dorn here. He was the only other primarch who Horus said he would be unable to defeat, and he was absolutely the symbol of everything Imperial. He is the loyalist counterpart to Horus, he was the most successful primarch before his recovery by the Imperium and he was the opposing commander at the Siege of Terra.

tl;dr - Dorn makes sense. Dornian Heresy is still pretty stupid though.

>> No.15513505

How the fuck did Sebastian Thor, a skinny little preacher who never actively fought in any thing, end up a Space Marine?

Macharius has a better claim for being turned into a Marine before any of the priests in the background, and even that would be pretty freaking stupid.

>> No.15513513

>>15513503
That isn't the point. He commands no special loyalty from his brothers the way Horus and Sanguinius did. Say all you will about his ability, but he lacked the charisma to pull off a full blown civil war.

>> No.15513534

The Roboute Revolution

With his swelling legion ranks, Roboute shows his martial prowess to the Emperor and is declared Hand of the Warmaster, and is told to watch over Horus by his brother Konrad, who see a future stained by blood at the hand of a foul Warmaster.

Aiding in the battle in Davin, Roboute takes the blow that would have felled Horus, proving Konrad's vision wrong. But, the wound was taken in the head instead of the side. The fallen demi-god's dreams were filled with visions of endless blood soaked Ultramarines, and Roboute standing, dressed in the regalia of the Warmaster, holding his brother Horus in his arms, fighting off unseen enemies, his chapter warriors too few to stand against them. Roboute began to believe if his chapter was big enough, he could stop the disaster that he foresaw.

>> No.15513536

>>15513534
Ultramarine recruitment went into overdrive, hundreds of marines pouring into his chapter. But the dreams did not abate, so the Primarch began lowering the standards for Space Marine recruitment, without the knowledge of the Warmaster or the Emperor. This brought less well trained Marines into his chapter and placed under Roboute's command enough for three legions, but caused the visions to abate...for a time. But they returned with more force. The same dream, with the same outcome, but the assailants were visible this time. The Custodes! The Imperial Palaces own guard! And it was then that Roboute realised, in his fevered state, that his vision showed him the corruption made manifest that he was now sure resided in the Imperium rulers! But...that meant the Emperor, his father, could be corrupted too! He had to find out more, but the visions could be only a few years in the future, and he could not wait!

And thus, Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines brought his forces together and headed towards Terra, and his furthest fall. For, in millennium to come, he would known as Arch-Traitor Guilliman, The Fell Hand, The Doubter, Slayer of he who he had sworn to protect.

Only a few knew he didn't know he was in the grasp of Chaos, until it didn't matter.

>> No.15513547

>>15513513
An alternate history where Sanguinius is the figurehead of the Imperium and Dorn the schemer behind it might have been interesting. It'd probably rely on Sanguinius having being injured but not killed in the battle with Horus, and perhaps mentally incapable.

>> No.15513558

>>15513547
In my opinion if Sanguinius had survived the Heresy he would have been dubbed Vice-Roy by the other survivors.

And he'd probably blame himself for the Emperor being crippled, so an evil Dorn could very well feed that guilt and coax Sangy into pulling the life support and becoming the new Emperor.

>> No.15513565

>>15513558

Viceroy?

He'd be the heir!

>> No.15513576

>>15513565
I think Russ said he believes Sangy was intended to be the Emporer's heir as he's listing the Primarch 'roles' in Prospero Burns.

>> No.15513578

>>15513576
Primarchs Roles? Elaborate please.

>> No.15513583

>>15513578
Horus was 'the General', Russ 'the Executioner', Alpharius 'the Intel-Officer', there was a small list. Can't remember specifics.

>> No.15513649

>>15513583

They were mostly ass-pulls crafted by Russ and the Wolves to assure themselves that they were cool. A lot of Prospero Burns deals with their own self-delusions, which they never escape from.

>> No.15513674

>>15513649
Oh look, its this guy again!

>> No.15513736
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15513736

>>15513534
>>15513536

Moar?

>> No.15514387
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15514387

>>15513547

Sanguinius II of the Imperium of Man.

>> No.15514930

>>15513534
>>15513536

What if Guilliman tries to make the Imperium into a democracy/constitutional monarchy? The guy's adoptive father was a consul after all, and a number of Ultramarine chapters also bear the title of "Consuls" (namely the Black Consuls (which are dead), the white Consuls (which aren't dead) and the Crimson Consuls (which are also dead).

>> No.15514944

It is full of plot holes and the ideas are all messed up. Blood Angels worshiping Nurgle? You dumb cunts. It would either be Khorne or Slaanesh.

>> No.15514958

>>15514944

Why can't they be Undivided?

I think Chaos bands which stick to one god are dull as hell.

>> No.15514965

>>15514930
Nah. Shit'd be retarded.
Like you.

>> No.15514988

>>15514965

Love you too~

>>15514958

But... The Black legion and Word Bearers are both as dull as hell while the Thousand Sons and Death Guard aren't? I'd say it depends on the writing more than anything.

>> No.15515012
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15515012

>>15514988
>~

>> No.15515025

>>15514988

Thousand Sons are barely affiliated with their god.

I can't even remember who the Death Guard are.

>> No.15515032

>>15515012
Ah. I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream

>> No.15515040

>>15515025
Yeah, I'd like to see a contrasted CSM force of the 1000S that actually gets mutated by their god. As is, 1000S are just loyalist grey knights.

>> No.15515047

>>15515040
They DID. That's why they are the way they are. You could easily make a post-heresy pre-rubric horrifically mutated force of Thousand Sons.
lrn2fluff

>> No.15515051

>>15515040
Ahriman stopped the mutation.

>> No.15515059

>>15515047
No shit, sherlock. That's my point -- they were, but that's irrelevant now.

>> No.15515060

I dislike the Vandire and Thor are now marines thing.

Thor was never an imposing man. He had charisma and brains but he was never really a physical man. Also doesn't help that he never raised a hand in violence his entire life.

Just comes off as 'We wanted more marines, so we made historical people marines because non-marines can't do crap'

>> No.15515075

>>15515059
Then make your own damn force of them.
It's like complaining the Eldar don't have a big empire anymore.

>> No.15515077

>>15515060

Also takes away from his power personally. He's the man who brought the Imperium to it's knees without raising his hand in violence. In 40k that is one hell of an achievement.

He's probably one of the few unequivocally good people to exist in 40k, and you know what? He won. That's pretty damn awesome.

>> No.15515080

>>15515060
Well it personally makes me wonder, there's a massive surplus of geneseed, why not use it for at the very least important people? It strains my suspension of disbelief that even though the High Lords of Terra control a huge geneseed supply, they only dole it out to space monastics who are beyond the Imperium's direct control.

>> No.15515086

I liked the World Eaters and the way the Ultramarines are generally useless and ruined everything. Alpha Legion was a bit meh, Iron Warriors are neat. Thousand Sons were predictable, Raven Guard...weren't.

>> No.15515091

>I am planning on putting the second half of the Dornian Heresy out as a PDF in the summer of 2012.

FUCK YOU REX.

Oh well, I just wanna read up on Night Lords since the Iron Warriors article has been out for some time now.

>> No.15515096

>>15515077
He also had a lot of people executed eventually.

>> No.15515105

>>15515075
No, since 2000 pts from a small empire and 2000 pts from a large empire are still identical; 2000 pts. A better analogy would be if they completely removed one kind of aspect warrior from the game.

>> No.15515136

Dornian Heresy? I'm a fan.

Liked the way Raven Guard and World Eaters went. Also Konrad was Batman.

>> No.15515159

>>15515136

I wish they'd bothered to make a image of the Raven Guard. The whole "IDENTITY UNKNOWN SO WE SHADED THEM OUT LOL" doesn't work for me. Its almost as retarded as GW making rules for using the Flame Falcons, but never making a fucking colour scheme.

>> No.15515184

Honestly, most of the problems I have with it as just as bad in GW's actual material.

>> No.15518784

bump

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