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[ERROR] No.15259458 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Do these have any place beside a list with Dante as HQ ? I absolutely love the models, and will probably end up using them anyway, but I'd like to know if they're worth a shit.
So far I can't see much good, really. Probably need a sanguinary guard to get the best of them, and still, Glaives Encarmine suck, and Death Masks must work once in a blue moon. Infernus pistols don't really cut it...

>> No.15259522


>> No.15259531

their biggest problem is that they take up an elite spot (along with all the other goodies in the BA codex) and don't have a niche roll (they're pretty good at killing MEQ's but so is everyone else in the codex)
they don't deal astoundingly well with hordes. and they don't have an invulnerable save but i still think they have their uses

they have a good range of special weapons for dealing with most any problem and their jump packs give them menuverability. a librarian could give them a cover save. or they can be used as an answer to any problem that arises. basically a unit that fills up holes and weaknesses your formation and other units might have at the moment.

use em like a bard

>> No.15259595

Stick a Chaplain or Reclusiarch with them for best results. Dante does make them more useful as Troops, otherwise you shouldn't field more than one unit per army. Use them for assassinating other Elite or HQ units. And always give at least one of them a Power Fist. The special pistols help too; an Infernus Pistol gives an extra S8 AP1 shot before a charge, and it's far better than the plasma pistol against tanks.

>> No.15259661

If you get them a Chaplain, you only have one Elite slot left.
I myself think they're better off with a Sanguinary Priest. 2+ with FNP makes them quite resilient, and they already re-roll one failed to-hit per turn. Also I5 and S5 makes them quite deadly in an assault.

Still, it's true they're not too great, mostly because Glaives suck.

>> No.15259716

they could be a less resilient more mobile death star
chap and priest and librarian casting cover saves beatstick

uses up all elites but its pretty deady

>> No.15259729

Why? They're power weapons that let you reroll one failed hit per model, per turn. Sure, you don't get +1 attack in close combat when combined with pistols, but their other weapon is normally an AP4 Storm Bolter so it doesn't matter that much.

And besides, they can always take Power Fists.

>> No.15259770

I'm not OP but can I ask for BA advice in here?

Let me preface this with the fact that I've never played a game before and don't yet have the best grasp on the rules.

I'm not looking to have an absolutely min/maxed list but I'd still like to have something that isn't too pathetic.

Anyway, this is what I currently plan to build/paint towards:

Reclusiarch w/ power fist, jump pack
Captain w/ power sword, infernus pistol, jump pack
5 Sanguinary Guard
5 Death Company w/ jump packs
10 Assault marines w/ power fist
10 Tac marines w/ melta gun, lascannon and rhino
10 Tac marines w/ melta gun, lascannon and rhino
Baal Predator

1500pt total

>> No.15259799

don't take power fists on your HQ models. extra guns on them are a waste.

sure you're BS 5 but don't waste your 5 initiative especially when you can just take thunderhammer terminators with a HQ unit to make them your big beasie punchers.

you already have a power weapon. USE IT.

>> No.15259871

Change the Tac Marines for assault marines with 2xMelta or 2xFlamers. Tac's are best left alone when playing BA. Take out Jump Packs and get discounted Rhinos.
The Reclusiarch isn't really a too good choice. A Librarian can do the same as him (one of his powers lets the unit he's attached to reroll all failed to-hit rolls), and you can give him a power that ups him to S10 which makes him surprisingly killy. However, if you're picking the Reclusiarch for the flavour (like me, I looove chaplains), then keep him. Or if you will be facing a lot of 'Nids or Eldar, which can nullify your powers, or if you're planning on making him go with the Death Company (which I guess is what you want to do)
Give the poor Death Company something. 5 w/ Jump Packs, 2xPower Swords, 1xHand Flamer isn't too expensive (220 points) and will pretty much kill anything you throw at it, while resisting a good deal themselves. Usually a PF is warranted but the Reclusiarch already covers that.
One Baal Predator isn't going to cut it, but it's a good addition. Also go the full way and put on it heavy bolters, with just the AC it's pretty underwhelming in terms of firepower.

>> No.15259925

I personally love my reclusiarch because he has an extra wound that the librarian doesn't.
DONT take a power fist on the reclusiarch. put one on your death company if you are rolling him with them.

also I recommend taking lazer-backs if you are going to go for discounted transports and use the combat squad rule(or take 2 five man packs of assault marines without packs for the double discount)

contrary to popular belief, blood angels are not an assault army. almost all xenos will out melee you and you're only marginally better than normal marines at combat IF you get red thirst.

my favorite beat stick in 1500 is a 5 man assault terminator squad(3 hammers, 2 claws), a HQ choice(usually reclusiarch), and a sanguinary priest with termie armor. roll them up into a land raider and it's pretty much the "I win" button on a game because people don't know what the fuck to do about that shit in 1500.

>> No.15260002


>if you're picking the Reclusiarch for the flavour (like me, I looove chaplains)
Yeah I do. I've painted 3 chaplains and converted 1 because I just think they're awesome.

Everything is pretty bare honestly because due to never having played a game I can't really weigh up the benefits of loading everything up with toys vs more bodies. I don't really know how many guys is enough for certain army sizes.

>> No.15260075

There is some truth to that, though not completely.
It's true that the true strength of BA come from their highly mobile vehicles supporting your assaulty units, but they're very strong at assault themselves.

Only 'Nids will out-melee BA regularly. And with the current sucky meta of vehicles everywhere, when they're forced to take max Hive Guards and Tervigons, not even then. And even then, that's what your fire support is, to kill the big guys while you assault gaunts and inflict No-Retreat wounds in their MC's.
Eldar ? Only their Dedicated Assault options, and that's because they're true specialists. And still, they might have problems.
Dark Eldar ? Incubi, of course, but then again, specialists. And if an Assault Squad gets the jump on them with FC, they will probably kill each other.
Tau ? Pft.
Necrons ? Same.
Orks ? With No Retreat wounds and your Blendertrons, you can mow up Boyz and even Nobz with ease.

Do not underestimate the ability to get FC and FNP almost armywide, people seem to forget that Space Marines aren't bad at all in close combat, and with 3 attacks, S5, I5, 3+ with FNP on the charge and Jump Packs for 18 points each, they're certainly not a joke.

Of course, the point still stands that the strength of the army is their shitload of fast fire support combined with their great assault abilities, yeah.

>> No.15260258

thats a question every wargamer has to answer every time they build an army. the simple answer to how many boys should you have and how many toys should they have in short "enough"

what that means is that they have enough power weapons/heavy weapons to neutralize a particular kind of unit (elites, swarm, MC, mech) and enough warm bodies that you can take an attack and still function.

when ever I design a unit i think about what i want them to kill. and how im going to get them to where i need them to be.

if my DC going to specifically go after MC and mech im going to need some thunder hammers(or fists) and melta in there. if they're going after swarms of infantry i can save some monies on power weapons but take flamers.

transportation is a little more complicated. how you get there is as important as what you do when you arrive. and remember, transportation can take the form of superior numbers running across the field so take that into account

>> No.15260474

the problem I have with flamers is that if you're shooting orks or imperial guard is that it's very easy to take away just enough models from the front to deny you a charge and then you're fucked out in the open.

>> No.15260569

Wait I already realized I fucked that up with the melta guns

>> No.15260604

i wouldnt take the captain. nothing naturally wrong with the captain but he's basically just a slighty better cc version of the Reclusiarch and thats not considering that the Rec gives everyone in the unit rerolls to hit. id replace him with a librarian or a second Rec if you want two HQ's

>> No.15260673

Ok, revised revised attempt

Reclusiarch w/ jump pack
Captain w/ power sword, infernus pistol, jump pack
5 Sanguinary Guard
2 Sanguinary Priests
5 Death Company w/ jump packs, power fist, 2x power swords
10 Assault marines w/ power fist
5 Assault marines w/ melta gun, no jump packs, razorback
5 Assault marines w/ melta gun, no jump packs, razorback
Baal Predator w/ heavy bolter sponsons

1460 pts, 40 left over to do something with.

I thought something like that would probably be the case but honestly it's one of the things I want to keep for thematic reasons.

>> No.15260684

no worries theme>power unless your playing necrons or tau...they need all the power they can get

>> No.15260692

Librarians are awesome HQ's for the powers Shield Sword plus the Psychic hood, way useful. I don't think I'd ever take anything else unless running a Dante list.

As far as army size for bodies it depends what kind of list you're playing

For example my 1500 Jumper/Dev list has 54 guys in it, but no vehicles...

Whereas in a vehicle heavy BA list you'll prolly do 5 man ASM squads with razorbacks instead of full 10-man squads. it all depends what you are trying to do really.

As for Sang guard I'd avoid them at lower points levels unless running Dante.

>> No.15260730

Captains are useless. They can't get artificer armor or a relic blade like vanilla captains can. There's always a better choice for BA.

Don't take a captain.

>> No.15260825

Duude Theeme

>> No.15260836

What if I bump the reclusiarch down to a regular chaplain and use the captain I plan to build as a counts as Dante?

>> No.15260841

Dante is pretty cool, take the glorious gold bastard over a captain

>> No.15260893


That'd be better. You might want to drop the sang guard squad and give dante an honor guard squad with 3-4 melta.

Precision deepstrike with 3-4 melta = very dead vehicle
Though don't expect them to live very long after that.

I'd say the biggest problem with your list is a lack of focus.... You have jumpers and you have DC and you have vehicles. That's especially hard to do at lower points levels too.

And that lone Baal predator? don't expect it to live very long, Most opponents will focus fire it down as fast as they can.
Even if you do keep it that way anyway, put 2x melta in your 10-man asm squad.

Though w/o a FNP bubble that squad isn't very scary...

>> No.15260983

I would go over to a place like yesthetruthhurts if you want a good competitive list. Or places like the Bolter&Chainsword for fluffy one.

Chaplains are hard to justify including as well as DC because there is almost always better choices. Rage can really fuck you over on DC and Chappies just aren't impressive enough.

Which sucks because Chaplains look so fucking awesome.

>> No.15261029

Hey I was just wondering what glaives actually do?

Also what would a complete army with just sanguinary guard look like?

>> No.15261074


Master crafted 2-handed power weapon.

I.e. rerolls to hit.

>> No.15261114


It looks like an auto-win

For the other guy.

Because it's just too few dudes.

Here's a dante list courtesy of yes the truth hurts

1 Commander Dante, 225 pts

3 Assault Squad, 125 pts
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Infernus Pistol x1)

7 Assault Squad, 220 pts
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Hand Flamer x1)

7 Assault Squad, 220 pts
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Hand Flamer x1)

1 Sanguinary Guard, 230 pts
2 Sanguinary Guard (Infernus Pistol)
2 Sanguinary Guard
1 Sanguinary Guard (Power Fist)

1 Sanguinary Guard, 230 pts
2 Sanguinary Guard
1 Sanguinary Guard (Power Fist)
2 Sanguinary Guard (Infernus Pistol)

3 Attack Bike Squad, 120 pts

3 Attack Bike Squad, 120 pts

3 Attack Bike Squad, 120 pts

4 Devastator Squad, 130 pts (Missile Launcher x4)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)

4 Devastator Squad, 130 pts (Missile Launcher x4)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)

4 Devastator Squad, 130 pts (Missile Launcher x4)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)

>> No.15261132

that's a 2000pt list btw

>> No.15261265

Bump with BA art.

>> No.15261357

>> No.15261424

>> No.15261594


Well, aside from the fact that you're running around with dual pistols on all your sergeants

Isn't the Yes, The Truth Hurts guy the one who believes that mandrakes are the shit?

>> No.15261625

I dunno if they do. I always have trouble with the BA codex. I want to take a fun army with Death Company and Sanguinary Guard and awesome Special Character HQs, but I always seem to do much better without any of that.

But if you do use them, keeping them near a Librarian with Shield of Sanguinius or behind a vehicle is great. Both even better. Last time I used them, I had a librarian with Shield of Sanguinius and Unleash Rage with a Priest and a 10 man assault squad in a land raider, with the Sanguinary Guard following the Raider out of LoS of almost the entire army and getting the 5+ save from the units that could shoot at them.

Also, this is one of my 2k lists that I planned on using. Any tips?

Librarian, Shield of Sanguinius, Blood Lance - 100

Sanguinary Priest 50
Sanguinary Priest 50

5 Assault Marines 100, Flamer 5, Razorback with Assault Cannon 55 - 160
5 Assault Marines 100, Flamer 5, Razorback with Assault Cannon 55 - 160
5 Assault Marines 100, Flamer 5, Razorback with Heavy Flamer 20 - 125
10 Assault Marines 190, 2 Meltas 20, Power Weapon 15, Rhino 15 - 240
10 Assault Marines 190, 2 Meltas 20, Power Weapon 15, Rhino 15 - 240
10 Assault Marines 190, 2 Meltas 20, Power Weapon 15, Rhino 15 - 240

Baal Pred 115
Baal Pred 115
Baal Pred 115

Vindicator 145
Vindicator 145


>> No.15261715


I've never seen a list of his with Mandrakes in it. So I'm gonna say it's not that guy.

>> No.15261739


Also, both those pistols count as assault weapons therefore are CCW in combat still giving the +1 attack.

The reason i assume he'd keep the bolt pistol is due to the infernus pistol being 6 inches only vs 12 of the bolt pistol, giving options.

>> No.15261817


Actually, yes he was. Here's his review on them. Apparently he thinks (or thought, he's probably changed his mind by now) that investing a Raider and a Homonculus to give Mandrakes their ranged attack was worth it.



While the reasoning for what you're saying that is incorrect, the effect you're saying it for is correct.

They are both pistol weapons, which in close combat count as CCWs. If all assault weapons were considered CCWs, then Terminators would by all rights have a Power Fist + CCW in close combat (not that that actually does anything since Power fists, Thunder Hammers and Lightning Claws only get the +1 attack for having another of the same weapon).

But still, considering that your units are running around with dual meltas, and the hand flamers are only there to give a template weapon, why not just replace the pistol, then spring for at least a power weapon? people rarely, if ever, remember to shoot their pistols because the enemy will most likely try and jew you out of a charge by removing models closest to you, and the power weapon lets you assault them high armor save guys with increased success.

>> No.15261909

Personally I would just keep the chainsword, but that's me.


I'd switch up the assault cannons on the razorbacks for heavy flamers, gives you more points to play around with.

As far as heavy support I'd go with either rifleman dreads or devs w/ missile launchers. (I just don't trust vindis)

And give your 5 man asm squads a melta and maaaybe an infernus pistol, but the 1 melta for sure.

>> No.15261965


Ah yeah, meant pistols, very sorry.

I went to the article, he says they are shit, not THE shit..... So I was right?

I dunno, I trust what he says over the advice and such I've gotten on most other forums.

But then again fluff is pretty much the last priority for his builds, competitive over all else. Which is fine if that's what you want. If you want fluffy feel free to ignore his advice.

Though all jumper armies can be good, and they are fluffy too.

>> No.15261979


My bad. RE-read the article.

what I'm getting out of it is they aren't uber awesome, but they aren't fail.

>> No.15262023


>Entire article is about him talking about the various ways that Mandrakes are good in both shooting and close combat

>Entire article is mocking people on the internet calling Mandrakes shit

>Entirety of his comments replying to people calling him retarded is the various ways to get a Haemonculi to them on turn 1

Apparently you didn't quite read through it as much as you thought you did.

>> No.15262040


Yes please ignore where I said I re-read it and apoligezed thank you.

>> No.15262053

Sorry, my browser doesn't exactly auto-refresh while typing posts.

>> No.15262064


*apologized. man I fucked up spelling that.

>> No.15262070


No harm done.

Have a pic.

>> No.15262077

I'm just going to post this picture in hopes of more awesome Warhammer pics :)

>> No.15262089


I like the Assault Sergeant up at the top about to ram that killa kan with a bolt pistol and a power sword.

>> No.15262095


Well shit, now the gauntlet's been thrown down. Any requests?

>> No.15262098

is there a difference between space marines and blood angels?

>> No.15262103

>in a Blood Angels thread.

What the fuck man, Tankred endures. Just not goldenboy ponces floating about on feathery wings of gay.

>> No.15262106

Post any warhammer pics. Preferably Necrons and tau if you can supply.

>> No.15262119

Tankered? Im not familiar with warhammer races (if thats what you're referring too since its a dreadnaught).

Im going to post more warhammer pics anyway

>> No.15262121


Sadly I have little of the xenos, but I'll post what i have

>> No.15262126

Brother Tankred is a Dreadnought. who is awakened by Techmarine Arnulf to fight on the Eve of the Kasiroth Offensive.

>> No.15262127

>> No.15262131

Tankred is probably the most famous BT dreadnought ever.

He endures. he's not a fan of blood angels. I would guess, but no one knows for sure.

We do know he hates eldar.

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>> No.15262141

I see. Cool


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>> No.15262155

different version of that

>> No.15262158

so do blood angels have they shall know no fear?

>> No.15262163

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>> No.15262172


Is there a difference between a dog and a German Shepard?

Its the same kind of thing.

>> No.15262177

>> No.15262181

more black templar propaganda

>> No.15262185

>> No.15262196

I'm conveniently out of tau/necrons. Sorry it's so little

Moving onto Black Templar as demanded!

>> No.15262199

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>> No.15262262

damn flood detection

Anybody actually getting any useful pics out of this?

>> No.15262269

sure is a lot of Templars in this here Blood Angels thread.

>> No.15262271

i think its just us 2 left

>> No.15262276


>> No.15262280

>> No.15262281

Does anyone have any pics of Sanganius defending the Gates of the Terran Palace?

>> No.15262284


>> No.15262290

last templar, taking requests or I'll start posting whatever

Also, feel free to continue BA discussion if y'all want to. I sorta hijacked the thread.

>> No.15262298

one of the only ones I have with ol' sangy

>> No.15262299

why do speece mahreens have power packs?

>> No.15262303


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>> No.15262314

BA player here. And I have to ask.

Is it possible to get a decent Biker list out of BA? I've been trying to put one together using a few ideas from the Jump pack only lists i've seen around. But i'm not sure if i've done it even remotely right.

>> No.15262319

image dumps would be so much easier w/o the damn captcha

>> No.15262323

Taking dreadnoughts


>> No.15262325


Awesome, thankya


Also, needs more Space Wolves

>> No.15262326


Heard of one style called blood rodeo, combination bikes and jumpers I believe. Can't recall off the top of my head how to do it tho'

>> No.15262327

I'm not sure. I've never seen anyone use BA bikes. Though one time, I saw a guy who had a single priest on a bike. That was interesting because he had no other bike units in the army.

I guess if you built the core of your army around Assault Marines in Rhinos they could turbo boost with the bikes and keep up in that regard.

>> No.15262329

To power the power armor.

>> No.15262330

rolled 9 = 9

I can imagine them being viable in a storm raven list

>> No.15262335

with blood talons? y/y

>> No.15262340

That was basically my idea.
libby on bike.
assault marines
couple rifle dreads
and priests everywhere.

...should i just put up the list i'm currently working on?

>> No.15262341


Yes, riflemens, furioso w/o blood talons, libby dreads

I've seen those all work in lists.

Blood talons are more for the lulz imo.

Space Wolves inc.

>> No.15262349


Basically what you do is have BA Bikers with a Jump Packing Sanguine Priest near it. the idea is very VERY tough melee-ers.

T5 and a 4+ FnP etc,etc. The Priest isn't PART of the unit, he just hangs out behind the bikers.

>> No.15262353


A link for you to a blog I respect


>> No.15262359

>> No.15262365

Where the hell do I get autocannon parts for dreads anyway?

>> No.15262367

Fuck you flood detection

>> No.15262375

wouldn't it be more worthwhile to give the priest a bike so he can more easily keep up with the bikers? plus being able to help in the shooting phase with the twin linked bolter that comes with the bike?

>> No.15262383


Expensive but simple: Forgeworld 7GBP each

Convertin style: Aegis Defense Line

>> No.15262387

Nightmare mode: all of it out of plasti-card

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>> No.15262402

If you don't Turbo-boost the bikers, the priest can keep up with the jump pack, and the shooting phase sure, but his BS is the same as a normal guy, so it'd only be another bolter. The only reason they're there is to give the FnP bubble so it's not armed for much more then that.

>> No.15262403

>> No.15262415

>> No.15262420

Yeah but the bike increases their toughness and give them the option to turbo-boost with the bikes if need be. It's only 10 points more and really doesn't detract in any way.

Unless, can an IC on a bike join a jetpack unit or foot unit? If he can I assume he can only move like the unit can if he can do more than they can. Like an IC with a jumppack joining a foot slogging unit can't move 12.

>> No.15262426

I think I'm out of SW, now what?

>> No.15262443

>> No.15262453


>> No.15262485


Again though, they're not supposed to help in combat. Their entire point is to just follow. You can put them on a bike if you want, but in the end, his point isn't to join in combat, it's to hide behind the combat to give the actual unit in combat FnP.

He can join any unit, but again, he's not supposed to join the unit. He still counts as an IC, which means that if he's in Close Combat, the opponent can target him with melee attacks and remove your FnP bubble. So the point isn't to go into Close combat with him.

>> No.15262502

How's about some Dark Angels?

>> No.15262520

Yeah I know that's the point, which is why I think a bike would be better. Increased toughness for protection and turboboosting for protection. Not to mention if another unit needs his bubble more than the bikes, he can boost over to them.

Also when I said turbo boosting with the bikes, I meant near by, so he could claim a cover save for protectoin and continue to help them out.

>> No.15262533

>> No.15262543

DA then

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>> No.15262553

grumble flood grumble wtf

>> No.15262557


Yeah, but those 10 points can buy you a Power Weapon somewhere else.

Again, you CAN put him on a bike.

But the point is to make them as cheap as possible because you're only using them for the FnP bubble so you can spend it on other killy things. Since the Jump Pack lets them keep up with the Bikers and is fairly cheap, most people just leave it at that.

Again, you CAN put him on the bike, but most people prefer using those 10 points elsewhere for stuff such as Meltaguns, Power Weapons, special pistols, etc,etc

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>> No.15262580

I'm fallin asleep, it's 3am here, glad I could dump some art for /tg/

>> No.15262598

Power Weapons are 15 points though as is most useful gear. Your argument for why they give them jump packs instead seems silly. As cheap as possible to make sure he gives out FnP and Furious Charge, yet for a tiny 10 points he becomes harder to kill and much more useful in getting his bonuses to more squads throughout the game. It's essentially saying that he should just walk instead of get a jump pack because it saves points. Why cripple his movement when you have a list of bikes that could benefit from him actually keeping up with them?

>> No.15263539


Has anyone got the full version of this? It was my fave 40K pic when I was just starting out. Thanks!

>> No.15265025

bump requesting eldar

>> No.15267136


An Eldar for you.

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