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15225874 No.15225874 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So /tg/,

My friends have convinced me to take up 40k because they think that it's something I might enjoy, but my problem is I have not yet been able to come to a decision about which army I want to start with. I want something that is mostly close combat as I've some distaste for long range combat, but the problem that I run into is that my first close combat idea was Tyranid but one of my other friend already plays them so I'd like to do something different.

tl;dr
Recommend me an army that is close combat in 40k, that is not the Tyranid.

also 40k General

>> No.15225886

Spess Wulves
Bludd Angles
Gay Kniggits

>> No.15225887

Go dark eldar, its one of the most powerful close combat armies and also have the biggest guns. All you will have to get used to is wet tissue for armor.

>> No.15225896

Orks
Dark Eldar
Blood Angels
Chaos Marines

>> No.15225910

Black Templar's
Space Wolves
Night Lords (Chaos)
Grey Knights

>> No.15225938
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15225938

>>15225886
I had thought about Space Wolves, but I'm still stuck at the point where I would need to figure out what I'd need to play them.

>>15225887
Are Dark Eldar that good?

>>15225896
As I understand Orks are rather interesting to play, but what kind of things would you want for mostly close combat?

>> No.15225940

Your friends are retarded faulty kay is a piece of shit. If you are gonna start a minature game start with Warmachine or Hordes both are 100000x better then borehammer, they also cost less have better models and a better community not full of neckbeard virgin losers jerking off to Matt Wards fan fluff faggotry. Skip the kids shit and play a real mans game.

>> No.15225970

>>15225938
The only problem dark eldar have against is imperial guard and stupid play. Otherwise I think its one of the hardest to beat. Mobility and power all day long. Lack of terrain makes their job harder too.

>> No.15226005
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>>15225940
Oh god, the amount of fanfaggotry butthurt in this single post.

Might be a troll though, 2/10 because you made me smile.

>> No.15226017
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>>15225970
Autocannons everywhere.

>> No.15226019

>>15225970
Is there anything that is ACTUALLY GOOD against imperial guard?

>> No.15226034
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15226034

>>15225938
>Are Dark Eldar that good?
they're interesting, they have options, and are (for the most part) playable

a bunch o'raiders, or some venoms with webway portals can make for an effective assault list. Wyches or Wracks will be your primary troopers, in this case

>As I understand Orks are rather interesting to play, but what kind of things would you want for mostly close combat?
Bucketloads of Boyz.. Nobs.. Nob Bikers.. Burnaz.. (I'd suggest Kommandos as well, but they're more fun than effective). You can put them all on foot, or have them all in transports. Not exactly the "best" armybook out there, but it holds up for casual play.

>>15225940
u ams troll gud.

>> No.15226035
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>>15225940

buttmad PP fanboy detected, locking on.

>> No.15226121
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>>15226034
Now my understanding is that the Dark Eldar are weak as tissue paper, is this true? And about the Orks, I understand that they are both easy and fun to play, but for this kind of thing would I be looking for a kind of mechanized infantry? Or would I want something that is just overwhelming manpower. Same question with the Dark Eldar, which kind of feel would I be looking for?

>> No.15226136

rolled 25 = 25

>>15226019
Space Marine lists that are Deep Strike heavy.

Gunlines ain't shit if I have my assault squads and dreads chewing through it.

>> No.15226156

rolled 66 = 66

>>15226034
Never doubt the power of the green tide!
A buddy of mine had 60 shoota boys unload on a squad of 8 Necron warriors, then assaulted.
The Necron player laughed and took his guys off without rolling.

>> No.15226197

>>15226121
>Now my understanding is that the Dark Eldar are weak as tissue paper, is this true?
Generally speaking; yes

Dark eldar units get significantly tougher once they kill an enemy unit, as they gain (Feel No Pain).

There are exceptions; namely Incubi, Talos, Wracks/Haemonculus, Wyches in CC (they gain an invulnerable save)

>And about the Orks, I understand that they are both easy and fun to play, but for this kind of thing would I be looking for a kind of mechanized infantry? Or would I want something that is just overwhelming manpower.
That depends on how many dudes you want to buy and paint. If you want to keep it cheaper/easier to paint, going Nob Bikers and Boyz/Nobs in Trukks is a good way to do so.

You can also just say "fuck tanks" and swarm the board with fat units. Both work, but the footslogging list gives you fewer options than the mechanized one (ie; you've only got one option; stomp your troops across the board as fast as you can)

>Same question with the Dark Eldar, which kind of feel would I be looking for?
Depends on what you want to do. Transports are the name of the day for them; but whether you simply take a bunch of wyches in raiders, or have a webway portal delivered by a venom with some Talos in reserve is up to you

I suggest downloading the books you're potentially interested in off of /rs/. It will help you out quite a bit. Knock some ideas around /tg/ and your friends for a smaller (500-1000 point list) and go from there

>> No.15226215
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>>15226156
I do like Orks...it might be because the orks are undoubtedly the best.

>> No.15226250
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15226250

rolled 96 = 96

>>15226197
Doesn't Ghazkull give a special rule that lets them assault further? I forget exactly what it does, but it's good for footsloggin, closing the distant to those damn guns I'm shooting at your head.

>> No.15226262
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>>15226250
he does. I can't rememer exactly how; but his "Waagh" is better than your average warboss's

>> No.15226268

>>15226262

His WAAAGH is maximized instead of D6, I think. Can't remember/

>> No.15226298

>>15226268
>>15226262
Found the passage

>Ghazghkull's Waaagh! last the remainder of that player turn and all of the following turn. During the duration of the Waagh! Ghaz's saving throw is invulnerable
>For the duration all Ork infantry units count as rolling 6 for their Waaagh! roll. All non-fleeing Orks are fearless.

Mite b cool

>> No.15226328

>>15226268
It is. For the turn you use a Waaagh with Ghazkull, your whole army gets fearless and can automatically run 6 inches in shooting phase. Also, for that turn, Ghazkull gets a 2+ invuln save.

>> No.15226337

>>15226298
It is. Depending on the size of the table and who your opponent is, you can get into close combat on turn 2 with most of your army no problem.

>> No.15226343

World Eaters are IMHO the finest cc troops in the whole game. One-on-one I find them to be the most cost-effective assault unit.

>> No.15226383
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>>15226197
Now for Orks would I want to run anything like Killa Kans, or anything like that?

>> No.15226396
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15226396

>>15225874
Run Imperial Guard.
Bring Chekov.
Conscripts with Laspistols and Close Combat Weapons
Penal Legion Squad- Knife Fighters
DROWN THE ENEMY IN DRUNKEN KNIFE FIGHTERS AND POORLY TRAINED BROS

>> No.15226411

>>15226383
you can

I mean, they aren't the best unit; but mobile heavy weapons/bigass chainsaws are always useful

You're going to want a big-mek for the forcefield he gives units though. Kans have trouble getting cover saves otherwise

>> No.15226415
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15226415

Also you could try Black Templars, they are the British Knight fetish played to the extreme, swords and purity everywhere.
Fun to play, from what I've heard.

>> No.15226418

>>15226396

You know you don't get to *pick* your penal legions' bonuses, right? You roll, and you get what you get. They're fucking horrible.

>> No.15226420
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15226420

>>15226396
why do I get the feeling that an army such as that would be very much akin to the Russian Army at...pretty much any battle.

>> No.15226440

>>15226418
Whoops I forgot that part.

>>15226420
There were some good ones. My friend's Grandfather was a (Colonel? Colonel equivalent?) in the Red Army in WW2. He was given some sort of award for taking a bridge by finding another way around and SMASHING THE FASCIST PIGS FOR THE GLORY OF MOTHER RUSSIA.
This was years ago, but I saw the knife he carried into the battle. He never killed anyone with it (as far as I know), but the history of it was amazing.

>> No.15226478

>>15226019

Any Marine army tooled up for (rapid) assaulting and backed up by any of the various cheap anti-mech options.

Blood Angels
Space Wolves
Grey Knights
heck, even Chaos Space Marines can berserk their way through endless hordes of Guardsmen while fist fucking tanks.

All you have to do is run faster than the pie plates raining from the sky, which isn't really all that hard.

>> No.15226480
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15226480

>>15226440
Never said that the Russians were not very effective, just that they love their booze. My father knew a Russian pilot who defected to America, and so he was told a story about how one night in the dead of winter he had to land his MiG without wing deicer because the flight crew drank it because the alcohol content was very high.

>> No.15226527
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15226527

>>15226480
The- not just disregard- but seemingly active contempt for the soldiers always confused me. I understand punishing cowardice and glorifying dying for your country- every side did that- but Russian officers seemed to TRY to get their soldiers killed. If you outnumber your enemy you don't NEED to zerg rush just to prove you can.
This isn't off topic, it's a perfectly viable Imperial Guard build.

Can anyone weigh in on how good a Kroot-heavy Tau list would be? As in, all Kroot for troops with suits for elites and such?

>> No.15226541
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15226541

Personally I say to hell with your spoiled friend play dem Nids. However if you will not, move on down the line to dem dere orks and get krumpin! You gonna need allotta boyz and even more power klawz!

Also this is how orks Tyranid!

>> No.15226544
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15226544

>>15226156
Hahaha, that's crazy.

>> No.15226559
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15226559

>>15226478
Now with an army like that would I want to look into units that have deep strike?

>> No.15226577
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15226577

>>15226541
My friend is not spoiled, I just want to bring something different to the table, he's fine with me playing Tyranids, it's a personal choice not to.

>> No.15226585

>>15226559
Well I only play vanilla marines, but tactical squads, devastator squads, assault squads, terminators (vanilla and assault) and dreadnoughts can all deep strike, on their own or with Drop Pods.

>> No.15226649
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15226649

>>15226585
This sounds like something that I might have to look into.

>> No.15226650
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15226650

15226541

Ehh... didn't mean to offend none just a dam shame to lose a nid player, but what ever. Also the new Grey Knight have some nasty CC stuff. Like force halberds. If I was gonna build any other army I would give them a swing.

>> No.15226674
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15226674

>>15226649
This is the only picture I have with a drop pod in it

>> No.15226708

Were I to start a Loyalist Marine army, I would go with Blood Angels. Assault Marines as a troop choice? All jump pack army? Flying Land Raiders? Yes. God yes. You want a CC army? Blood Angels are a red storm cloud that rains chain swords and hate.

>> No.15226787

>>15226650
Speaking as a GK player, most of my play is done at range; specifically, around 24". Melee tends to happen when someone doesn't know how to deal with the GK and just decides to charge the fuck in. The fancy gear is just to discourage those charges.

As for the whole force weapon schtick, it's not nearly as useful as you'd think. I only use it against the big multi-wound units. Otherwise Hammerhand is just SO much better in pretty much every situation. Wounding MAHREENS on 3+, no armour saves allowed? Yes, please. They're pretty much armed with S5 power weapons 95% of the time, rather than S4 force weapons. I6 is tasty, though.

>> No.15226817

>>15226396

anyone save the old post bout Conscript rush vs. BT?

>> No.15226849

>>15226817

What was the upshot of that?

>> No.15226879

Ok here is a list of close combat armies:
-Space marines, including black templar, blood angels, etc. Space marines can make an entire army dedicated to close combat and being marines they are great in combat.
-Dark Eldar, Supremely fast and manouvrable. They hit and hit very hard. But they are very fragile and cannot take the hits so they require intelligience to place.
-Eldar, not ideal but they can take a lot of close combat aspect warriors.
-Orks, their entire way of life is war, they can have some of the most ridiculously combat orientated armies. All footslogging? Easy build a killa kan wall in front of your army of boys. Mechanised? Easy mount all you boys up in trucks and take some meganobs too!
-Chaos, take a shit load of beserkers in rhinos and some defilers
-Chaos demons, take an all khorne list and watch as your enemies are chopped apart.
-Greyknights, take a lot of stormravens and terminators. Grey knights are traditionally a shooting army despite what people think. So they are weaker than other close combat armies
-Nids of course.

>> No.15226893
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15226893

>Blood Angels are a red storm cloud that rains chain swords and hate

Not gonna lie, that made me laugh a lot more than it should have.

>> No.15226944
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15226944

>>15226879
I've narrowed it down to either Blood Angels or Orks, so I'm looking for kind of an idea of what I might want in either case.

>> No.15227001
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15227001

>>15226787
That surprises me, I thought that being giant Space Marines with Force Halbreds they would want to get as close as possible.

>> No.15227036

>I've narrowed it down to either Blood Angels or Orks

Problem with Orks: lots of minis. Zoggin' lotz of em. Prepare to buy a tide of plastic, paint it green and through it at your enemy which will kill them before your mass of attacks in melee will pick even the hardest enemy troops apart.

Blood Angels play differently. Fewer troops that are more difficult to kill. Also a selection hardcore named character models.

If you want to drown the other player in cheap models, pick Orks. If you want a small number of hardcore elite close combat specialists, pick Blood Angels. They both work very well as capable close combat troops.

>> No.15227045
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15227045

blood angels, no tacticals, just assault squads and a big squad of death company in a stormraven that is also carrying a death company dreadnought with blood talons.
Nothing to take out tanks you say? bring a simple landspeeder with a multi-melta for only 50 points, hell I usually bring two

>> No.15227061

Anyone mind helping me choose an army too?

Ideas are:

Long Range/Water style Blood Angels
Long Range/Water style Space Marines
Eldar (which I have no fucking clue how to do) - likely focussed on a grimdark or culture
Dark Eldar (see above)
Possibly some form of GK/SW based on Alchemy from the 14th to 16th century. (that being said my group of friends already has one GK player and that kinda deters me.)

Our group is:

1 SW
1 GK (has Daemons and Nids as well)
1 IG
1 SOB
1 DE
1 Ork
1 Necron
1 SM (Tigirius/Legion of the Damned)

>> No.15227081

>>15227036
I won't disagree, but this is relative, naturally.
Ork armies are perfectly capable of fielding "cheaper than the other guy" versions of more than one elite unit. Nobs are the most obvious example. They really aren't quite as good pound for pound as the best assault units in the game in some ways, but you can also take 2 units as your troop choices, and potentially take more units as elites choices, and all.

You can have an entire army that consists of Nobs, Nobs, more Nobs, and then maybe some Nobs, or some combination of that, and less nobs on bikes, or in Battle Wagons.

>> No.15227260

>>15227001
Hey, don't get me wrong. GKs are great in CC, but it's kind of a balancing act to make use of that. It seems like it's just a case of picking your battles, where you hit for maximum effectiveness (3+ MEQs come to mind) with the least amount of risk (hordes and power weapons). Thing is, there are so few models in each squad, and at such high cost, that getting bogged in melee with the distinct possibility of making bad rolls on the few you have and/or running into power weapons makes anything other than "cleanup duty" a somewhat hazardous idea.

From what I've gathered, the idea is not to just charge up the board looking to assault. You're looking more at whittling your opponent down so you can receive that charge (or if you like Sanctuary, making it) at a statistically advantageous level. 30 Ork Boyz, for instance, are not something you want, say, your 10-man Purifiers to touch. Whittle that down to 15-20 through S5 storm bolter fire and S7 psycannon fire and suddenly you can go "oh, well I have ~20 power weapon attacks if they charge, plus Cleansing Flame - the chances of them having enough attacks after that to really cripple this squad are really low".

>> No.15227690

>Anyone mind helping me choose an army too?

Space Marine pure gunlines don't work all that well. If you want to play long range, play Tau. They are the greatest suck in melee however.

If you care about winning, play Blood Angels.

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