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[ERROR] No.14638211 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Should I stick to my eldar and grind shit out till we get a new codex or should I jump on the wtfisthisshit speches mahrinez I.E Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Grey Knights. And now with the rumor of fucking black templar, im even more tempted. Im flabbergasted that theres more then one motherfucking imperium codex now...

>> No.14638220

Try a new game.

>> No.14638283

too late for that...

>> No.14638298

Stick with what you enjoy playing and don't jump to another codex just because it's "OP."

>> No.14638305

Well I think marines are kind of cool, the problem is, its over saturated in my area and I dont wnt to play an armie everyone else is playing

>> No.14638343

Hello, fa/tg/uys. Look at your elves, now back to mine, now back at your elves, now back to mine. Sadly, your elves aren't like mine. But if you stopped playing kiddie games and switched to Warhammer Fantasy, they could play like these elves.

Look down, back up. Where are you? You're in your FLGS, with the army your army could be like. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it, its a box with two sprues of that race you like. Look again, and the sprues are now diamonds. Anything is possible when your game isn't 40k. I'm on a lion chariot.

>> No.14638415

>>14638343
I actually recommend this. There is no one faction in fantasy that totally overwhelms everyone else like in 40K.

>> No.14638429

Play something...else.

As in a better system altogether, where every goddamn fight isn't some minor variant of spess mehreens.

>> No.14638444

>>14638415

There are a few that are pretty underwhelming at the moment though.

>> No.14638450

>>14638343

I play skaven in fantasy so sadly thats not an option

>> No.14638475

>>14638211
If Eldar are what you want to play, play Eldar. There's no need to jump on the MEQ bandwagon just because they get more attention - all that does is make the problem worse by validating GW's over-funding of Space Marines. Eldar are still perfectly playable in casual games as it is - unless you're looking at getting into Tournaments or other competitive games, there's no real problem.

Also? There have been multiple Space Marine codexes all the way back to Second Edition. This isn't a new occurence.

>> No.14638562

Stick with Eldar, but also have another popular army if you like them as well. They can be fun to play as.

I've played Witch Hunters and Guard for some years now (Witch Hunters since 04, Guard since 02). My mom got me the blood angels codex and some units for christmas. I never felt like playing marines, but it was so sweet of my mom to take interest in what I was doing, that I vowed to play them. The more I made lists, built and painted models, and played games the more I grew to enjoy them.

>> No.14638569

>>14638475

I know there have been multiples of space marines. I dont understand why though. Its retarded

>> No.14638585

>>14638569
Because they sell. GW wants to make money, people buy lots of Space Marines, so they crank out more suppliments for Space Marines. It's far from retarded, it makes perfect sense from a buisness point of view. If you disagree with it, then support non-Space Marine armies instead.

>> No.14638654

>>14638569
I'd say that A FEW chapters (such as Black Templars and Space Wolves) deserve their own codices.
Blood Angels and Dark Angels do not. They simply aren't different enough.
That being said, I don't like how the Mahreen codex says "You bring this guy as an HQ, you can do this specific thing, and you're playing this chapter." It doesn't delve into the fluff at all. Founding chapters all deserve a couple of pages in the codex, and need to be more differentiated from each other.

>> No.14638685

>>14638654
Blood Angels are quite different. It's basically an army of assault marines, fast vehicles, feel no pain and furious charging.

>> No.14638731

>>14638685
>>14638654
Why?


IF Blood Angels are quite different.Why can't the normal codex let you run an army of assault marines, fast vehicles, feel no pain and furious charging.

Other chapters get those sorts of rules via special characters.

Its just a giant kick in the balls that every other codex.....
Literally every other codex.
Is a brand of marines.

>> No.14638744

>>14638685
But couldn't you just make Assault marines troops, Vanguard elites, land speeders elites, add and ditch the flying land raider?
Not trolling, just relatively new to 40k.

>> No.14638754

>>14638731
Because that's changing the whole codex, not just changing some aspects of it. Besides, they've had their own codex for so long that it's a kick to the balls to BA players for their army to suddenly be absorbed into another.

>> No.14638758

>>14638731
>Other chapters get those sorts of rules via special characters.

Blood Angels had their own army list back in second edition. They have their own Codex to this day purely because of that - they were lucky enough to be written up in a seperate book (Codex: Angels of Death that had the Dark Angels and Blood Angels army lists), and it'd piss off a fair chunk of fanbase - and thus lose GW sales - to stop supporting their codex.

>> No.14638780

I would have preferred if they had made maybe 2 or 3 Marine codices with all the main chapters represented, maybe have them grouped by battle tactics, then you would have more overall support for different chapters whilst still being able to give certain Special Characters and units without needing one huge codex.

but theres probably huge holes in my idea because I only just thought of it.

>> No.14638783

>>14638754
>>14638758
Fair enough. Still sucks that the release schedule is seriously

Marines
Nids
Marines
Guard
Marines
Dark Eldar
Marines
Grey (Not Marine) Knights
Marines
Necrons?
Marines
Tau?
Marines

>> No.14638786

>>14638343


Agreed. WHFB is so much better. There's no overpowering HURP. It's all relatively fair, it's interesting and you can have battles that go from skirmishes to epic battles. It's less about having the newest army and more about having tactics.

>> No.14638787

>>14638758
If they were adequately represented in a 'catch-all' marine codex, then no it wouldn't. It'd be fine. In fact, it would most likely be a step towards making 40k better overall.

Please note, I'm not talking about shitty 'Field X Character, get Y rules'. I'm talking about the marine codex being a solid variety of lists, each for a different chapter-style. Blood Angels would get their dumb derp-strike bonus, as well as troop assault marines and deathcompany, etc.

>> No.14638807

>>14638786
Better still, are entirely different game systems. Warhamordes is typically much more relaxed and each faction is supported and loved almost equally. The only oddballz that get anything close to a 'short-stick', are Mercs and Minions... And both of them are still fully playable, and received full-spread splat books with plenty of units and options.

>> No.14638819

>>14638654I'd say that A FEW chapters (such as Black Templars and Space Wolves) deserve their own codices.

THEY HAD TO START MAKING SHIT UP TO WARRANT GIVING THEM A NEW CODEX

>> No.14638832

>>14638787
The catch all marine codex would be almost as thick as the core rule book and cost just as much. The rules would be so convoluted and messy with exceptions and special characters if you tried to make each marine army with as much variety as they have now. Any less on the rules and fluff front and people would rage that it was all in one book. And with that much, newbies would be overwhelmed with choices.

>> No.14638838

>>14638807

zero customization though, everyone's a named leader, that sucks

>> No.14638841

>>14638787
They tried that with the 3.5ed Chaos Space Marine codex. While it was very characterful and interesting, it was also horribly easy to break. And I suspect a large element of the fanbase would still throw a tantrum over having their Codex subsumed into a big catch-all book, no matter how well done it was.

In an ideal world, yes, there would just be one big Space Marine codex and everyone would be happy with that. But in the real world a steady stream of differently coloured Marine books and models is a reliable way of ensuring GW has a steady, reliable income all year round. So they aren't going to change that, no matter how frustrating it may be for non Space Marine players.

>> No.14638868

>>14638832
No it wouldn't. It'd be one core list, with rules for trading out selecting your chapter tactics and adding certain units based upon that.

It'd be stupidly easy to do. It's just a retard argument that the "Marine Fanboys for a hundred Marine Codex" coalition like to preach.

It's retardedly simple to do. Far more so than it was for GW to completely Squat other, far more diverse, variant armies for other armies, and pass off the 'catch-all' codex as able to represent them.

>> No.14638878

>>14638841
I'd say it's frustrating for players that use the marine codex. There's no mention of the Iron Hands in there, while there's like, 50 pages of Ultramarine shit.
"One codex to rule them all" doesn't work when a major, founding chapter is completely ignored.

>> No.14638880

>>14638868
No, it's not "retardedly simple to do" you fucking idiot.

>> No.14638892

>>14638878
Which is a problem with the author focussing too much on a single Chapter, and not including a spread of fluff for all the first founding Chapters. I don't see what it has to do with GW releasing several other variant Codexes.

>> No.14638910

In order to fold in Blood Angels and other chapters in with the Ultramarines, they'd seriously have to bring back the chapter specific bonuses and penalties and I think 4th showed that to be a massive failure as there were only a handful people really took.

Now, I don't disagree, I really think you should have some way to make the White Scars, for example, have there own special abilities without having to write up a whole new damn codex, but it's just not realistic. Different Chapters HAVE to have their own codex now, or it's just Ultramarines, all the time. Sorry it means your race gets pushed back chief, I really am.

>> No.14638938

>>14638892
The point I'm trying to make is that GW chooses to focus unevenly on some chapters, such as the Blood Angels. I'm certain that there is a way to create a single marine codex, listing all of the founding chapters (and the Black Templars, they're important enough to warrant it), fluff for each, special rules and units for each, and be able to make everyone happy by staying true to the spirit of each chapter's separate codex.

>> No.14638948

>>14638841
It was horribly easy to break, for the exact same reason that the IG book is currently horribly easy to break.

The problem wasn't with how they did the legions. The legions and setup of 3.5 was great. The problem was the complexity of the wargear, and how spread out everything was. What BROKE it was Pete Haines. He was an Iron Warriors player, and so IW go a substantially huge buff and were pretty stupid.

The current IG book was written by Robin Cruddace, who (surprise surprise) is a huge IG fan. Hence such problems as Manticores, dirt-cheap no-brainer Vendettas, extremely low-cost chimeras, etc. etc...

The biggest problem with GW's codices has always been whether or not the person writing it loves or actively hates the army. If they hate the army, you end up with the 7th ed Fantasy Orc and Goblin book that Mat Ward wrote. If they fucking love the army, you get current IG, 3.5 Chaos, and Mat Wards gimmick-fest mehreen codices.

The only developer I've ever seen who could approach an army he loved or hated from a completely neutral standpoint, was Andy Chambers. He actively aimed for fun lists that still allowed for customization and playability. Even better was that he listened to the player base and actually tried to fix things and base FAQ calls off of what made sense.

Jervis (when he does write rules) is also very good. However Jervis has a tendency to simplify (not ruin) armies he's less fond of, and overly diversify the armies he is fond of (case in point, 3e Dark Angel and Space Wolves).

Anyways... point is: Chaos 3.5 was great. It just needed streamlining some minor tweaks, and some balance fixes. But it was arguably the best written codex of 3rd edition. This constant 'Mehreen-spam nightmare edition' could learn a thing or two from that book.

>> No.14638975

>>14638910
No they don't. I could fucking write a better Space Marine codex that incorporates all of the "needs to be seperate" codices. And I could probably do it well within the space of the current book.

It's really not difficult. Nowhere near as difficult as the marine fan-base would love to believe. For starters, there doesn't need to be a pages worth of information on every single unit in the game. A paragraph or 2 will suffice, especially since most 'unit-descriptions' are just random babble anyways.

>> No.14639024

>>14638948
The current IG codex isn't as horribly easy to break as everyone makes it seem.

You never see many Guard players winning tournaments or placing all that high. I believe the only notable one since the new dex has been the '10 'ard boyz chicago winner.

>> No.14639053

>>14639024
Leafblower.

>> No.14639057

The issues are:

5th edition codexes > 4th edition codexes. 4th edition CAN compete, but they tend to be mono-build. Case in point: Mechdar with Fire Dragons and....Mechdar with Eldrad + Harlies for the Doom + Fortune bubble. That's it.

Though I see Black Templars after Necrons, Sisters and Tau. Though with the Tau FAQ, maybe they put BT before them, dunno.

All 5th edition codexes are at the same level, ignore the grognards. And Marine Variants have been there since forever.

Finally: Thought that every Eldar player just switched to Dark Eldar.

>> No.14639078

>>14638975
So, your solution is to gut unit fluff to make more room for rules crunch, but just for Space Marine players, everyone else get to have all their fluff still since they have the flexibility they need?

Now who's getting the short end of the stick?

>> No.14639094

>>14639024
They routinely fair very well in tournaments, and are widely considered one of the top end armies competitively, right after Space Wolves. Which btw, isn't suprirsing seeing as SW is a new codex, and IG are the 2nd book of the 5e run.

The mechanized list is stupidly easy to play, and amazingly effective. The primary reason you don't see as many IG armies as you do '-insert flavor of spess mereenz-' is the same as it's always been. IG (along with Orks) are an expensive army to build, and take a lot of work to do so without it looking like shit. Compared to any given Marine army where 1850 lists can expect a model count of 40 to 50±, IG and Orks will typically average well over 100± even when fully mechanized or KOS.

>> No.14639133

>>14639078
Stop assuming things, and trying to make up what I'm trying to say.

No. My solution is to gut the excessive page worth of unit fluff, save paper space, and make one codex that easily has more than enough room to fit numerous army lists, complete with the 'OMG UNIQUE-ZORS' units that marine players fap to.

And here's the kicker... Do it for every single goddamned army. That way we not only have -insert favorite- flavor of space marines. But we'd actually see the Chaos Legions, Ork Clans, Craftworlds, Kroot-Mercs, IG Regiments, etc. once again.

And 40k might actually be awesome and fun once again.

It is stupidly easy to do. Other systems have done this with literally a splat-book half the size of the Ork codex, but complete with 10 full unique army lists due to having a better design.

>> No.14639136

>>14639053
Yeah that worked for what, 2 months after the came out? It's not a very good list, and not hard to beat.

>> No.14639161

>>14638211
OP: No. The Eldar are a dying race and need your support. If you insist on a new army, though, be the Xeno. Deldar, Orkz, Tyranids, Tau, Necrons... anything but the imperial menace.

>> No.14639168

>>14639136
It worked for two months, because everyone got used to it and figured out how to beat it. Just like Space Wolf Thunderyiff spam, and Nob Bikers.

Still... a mechanized IG army is brutal to play against, and the codex is stupidly easy to tailor. I've seen it easily wipe boards with minimal casualties, against some of the best mehreen players with their 'leetzor tourney-winning lists'.

>> No.14639169

>>14639133
40k is also all about the fluff. The base rules book is probably over 60% fluff. Other games don't do that shit, the setting and fluff isn't as important. In 40k, it's the main attraction and has been since the get go. If you just want books of nothing but crunch, I fear you may have gotten into the wrong game.

>> No.14639224

>>14638832The catch all marine codex would be almost as thick as the core rule book and cost just as much. The rules would be so convoluted and messy with exceptions and special characters if you tried to make each marine army with as much variety as they have now. Any less on the rules and fluff front and people would rage that it was all in one book.
I AM GOING TO HOLD MY BREATH AND CREATE THE OMNI-SPACE MARINE CODEX RIGHT NOW

CHAPTER TACTICS- PICK ONE
-combat squads (ULTRAMARINES)
-furious charge (BLOOD ANGELS)
-fleet (RAVENGUARD)
-stubborn (IMPERIAL FISTS)
-counterattack+acute senses (SPACE WOLVES)
-mastercrafting for squad specials (SALAMANDERS, MAYBE DARK ANGELS 'CAUSE THEY HAVE NICE GEAR)
-Feel no Pain (6+) (IRON HANDS BIONICS)
-Librarians are 0-3 (BLUD REVANS)
-outflank (WHITE SCARS)

>>HQ
Force Commander- his wargear can shift FoC
*Honorguard, free squad with commander (WOLF BROS, ANGEL BROS, SWORD BROS, ETC.)
*Champion 0-1, non slot occupying HQ choice
-On bike= bike troops (HEY WHITE SCARS AND RAVENWING)
-In terminator armor= Termi troops (DEATHWING, WOLF GUARD, etc.)
Librarian, Chaplain, Apothecary 1-3
Tech Marines 1-3, upgrade to 1 forgemaster- dreads as elites
Venerable dread- (WUFFS) buy psychic powers (ANGELS)
FUCK FIELD TOO LONG

>> No.14639238

>>14639224

>>ELITE
Veterans- equip with close combat or ranged weapons, options of BIKES and jump packs with skillfull rider (RAVENWING)
Vet Scouts- outflank, infiltrate, scout, stealth ws/bs4 (WUFF SCOOTS)
Terminators
Abberations- mutated/hyper aggressive marines, furious charge, rage, feel no pain. (NOW YOU HAVE DEATH COMPANY AND WULFEN AND CURSED FOUNDING)

>>TROOP
scouts, tactical squad, assault marines (JUMP PACKS= BLOOD ANGELS, ON FOOT= BLACK TEMPLAR)

FAST ATT
Landspeeders, Bikers, Scout bikers
Monstrous Cavalry- marines on space bear parallels (HEY THUNDER WOLVES, OR THUNDERMANDERS OR FISTS RIDING FISTS IF YOU'D LIKE)
Stormraven

HEAVY SUPPORT
DREADS
VEHICLES
DEVASTATRS- SPECIAL CHARACTER FOR SPACE WOLVES-TYPE CHAPTER TACTICS TO SPLIT FIRE IN SQUADS

I THINK THAT COVERS EVERYTHING

>> No.14639261

>>14639169
You're so hell-bent in defending you precious fluff, that you're failing to realize what it is I'm saying.

I'm not talking about 'removing precious fluff' from the codices. Keep the fluff! But what we don't need is an entire page explaining how a Battlewagon is a catch-all term for any 'big vehicle' in an ork army, and how the Draigo 'God-Mode-Sue'd a primarch daemone prince. Go read the unit descriptions. And take a serious look at just how much is needed and how much isn't. Do we REALLY need 3 paragraphs explaining how a Rhino is a 'ubiquitous and rugged transport', or an entire page dedicated to how sensor spines and colossal maw makes the Mawloc different from a Trygon?

40k can still have a shit-tonne of fluff. It just needs editing, and trimming. And congratulations, we are now fitting upwards of 3 units per page, without and problems. 2 to 3 paragraphs of fluff each, and plenty of room for the USR callouts (because each unit doesn't need 4 or 5 unique rules that are slightly different from USRs).

It's simple. And it's easy. And more importantly, it can be done.

>> No.14639288

>>14639261

You're a boring person and I hope you never design any game ever.

>> No.14639296

>>14639238
Could I still take Special Characters?
And you left out that all flamers, heavy flamers, meltaguns, and multi-meltas are twin-linked for Salamanders.
Other than that, it's perfect.

>> No.14639299

>>14639288
And you're part of the cancer that is killing 40k. And I hope you stay the hell out of the awesome game systems I switched to. Enjoy Kiddy-Hammer, Marine-K!

>> No.14639301

>>14639238
>>14639224
Terrible. You're fired.

>> No.14639308

>> No.14639316

>>14639296
Yes, and sure. Add in the Salamander special tactic.

>> No.14639325

>>14639301
You're a worse critic than that girl from Time Magazine who reviewed 'Game of Thrones'. Firing you is too nice.

>> No.14639327

>>14639296Could I still take Special Characters?

Yes, INSTEAD it's restricted to "if you have taken X as chapter tactics you may take...."

>>left out flamers

was holding breath, you'll notice towards the end I just wrote "VEHICLES" and posted.

>> No.14639361

>>14639299
>People who like fluff
>Cancer killing 40k

I think you mean munchkins who care too much about crunch and want to strip down codices so they don't have any fluff to get in their way.

>> No.14639383

>>14639238
WAIT A SECOND.
Why are dreads Heavy support?
They're elites. Without them, my 1500 point list has nothing to absorb hits for the first two turns.

>> No.14639405

>>14639325
Seriously all he did was gimp the whole codex and make everything worse. If he was in charge, GW would lose a ton of support. He's a bad codex writer and a bad business man.

>> No.14639412

>>14639325

Mind linking the article? I want to see this and maybe rage...

>> No.14639426

>>They're elites. Without them, my 1500 point list has nothing to absorb hits for the first two turns.

take a techmarine, you can now have 6 dreads if you'd like.

>>
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