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[ERROR] No.14517606 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

So the Vampire Class for 4e sucks. Took a look at what's been posted so far. Worst damage in the game.

Suggestions for how to buff it? I've see adding scaling d8s to their basic striker feature. We should probably get something worked out for /tg/ players in general too. Mostly because explaining to some dickhead DM that you like a class but it is mechanically shit and it needs some help isn't the hardest thing to do.

>> No.14517673

Clarify on how shit the damage is for a Striker, this thing does Sorcerer level damage---without Area of Effect attacks and without the possibility to use Dual Implement Spellcaster, it also lacks the ability to pierce resistances too.

It's like they crammed every fluff power they could think of into this class, but forgot to make it good.

>> No.14517720

Mind posting what's been shown so far? Quick google didn't help.

>> No.14517739

Ssssso, a lot like the original 4e assassin then sounds like.

Yeah do tell - what's their mechanic?

>> No.14517744

Is the Assassin still terrible? I haven't been keeping up.

>> No.14517752


All spoilers are in this thread. Fortunately, Blackguard looks badass.

Vampires just get straight +Cha to damage and nothing to show for it, hell, they get DISADVANTAGES with no corresponding advantage. I think that's at least worth like 1d12+Cha Striker damage in heroic.

>> No.14517766

The original Assassin is better than Vampire. Just plain better.

>> No.14517768

I heard that they were by far the most durable strikers. I guess this is how you pay for durability. Not convinced this is a problem just yet.

>> No.14517784

The most durable striker is by far still the Avenger due to obscene defenses. After that is the Blackguard, the Monk, the Slayer, and then the Barbarian.

>> No.14517790

I don't really give a shit I just want to goof off with a vampire.
No wait, let me try that again:

Let's count how many shits I give. Zero. Zero! Ahahah! I give zero shits that vampires are bad!

>> No.14517798

wut? Did we loop right back to Basic D&D?

>> No.14517801

They're not. They have 2 healing surges and a built in vulnerability, and Constitution isn't one of their primary statistics, so they won't be rolling in HP like the barbarian either. They get no special +Defenses mechanic either.

They basically get a big, fat pile of "it sucks to be undead" and none of the cool benefits that ought to come with a this stuff.

>> No.14517814

Thus far, it looks like the party is actually worse off for having you as a Vampire. You'd be worse than a mismatched Hybrid.

Not only that, you'd probably just plain die due to the inborn fragility of the class and no class feats to shore up any of the weaknesses.

>> No.14517828

I am glad the vampire sucks. Anything that keeps those sparkling Twilight faggots away from my D&D is fine by me.

>> No.14517831

Now if vampires were one of the better strikers, /tg/ would be having a shitfit about that. There is no winning, only whining.

>> No.14517858

It'd still probably be an unpopular class because you don't have many power picks and it's got a lot of built-in disadvantages. I really only expected one thing in return for all the bullshit: good damage. Not amazing, not phenomenal, but good. As it stands, a Fighter using Brash Strike already outperforms this class.

>> No.14517873

And then I obsessed for years trying to make a half decent hybrid Monk/Vampire.

>> No.14517879


>> No.14517888


>> No.14517892

Basic Striker Shit+1d12 in Heroic
Basic Striker Shit+3d12 in Paragon
Basic Striker Shit+5d12 in Epic

Maybe then someone will play the trainwreck of a class.

>> No.14517894

Well played.

>> No.14517904

A-yup. 4E's always been built from basic D&D up. It's still a shame that I can't have my elf class, though.

>> No.14517916

You know how sorcerers get all crazy magical and shit by developing their innate sorcerer abilities? They explore a facet of something they are, rather than something they're taught?

Think of it like that, only with an STD.

The STD in question being vampirism.

>> No.14517917

Maybe there will be an Elf Theme eventually.

>> No.14517918

:3 I know.

>> No.14517925

This would actually produce decent numbers

>> No.14517928

Wasn't there an STD sorcerer in The Book of Vile Darkness?

>> No.14517933

Then we can have Elf-Dwarf Vampires, right?


>> No.14517937

can I play a dhampir vampire

>> No.14517939

Revanent Elf-Dwarf Vampires

>> No.14517941

Are it's numbers that bad? I couldn't get past the "No Options" bit before I dismissed it as utter trash, so I never looked at the actual numbers.

>> No.14517950

Everyone write an email suggesting this as errata. If you'll run the numbers, it syncs up to what a Striker should be doing at the respective levels.

>> No.14517953

>D&D campaign set in Ulgrotha

>> No.14517959

Numbers are worse than the O-Assassin. How that slipped through I have no idea. Furthermore, they get nothing in compensation.

+d12s idea sounds best. It could probably still do with a buff thanks to their built in disadvantages.

>> No.14517969

Kinda, yep.

Actually the cancer mage gets sort of hilarious if you re-envision it as having a magical std instead of a magic tumor. Make it charisma focused, something of a Lothario...

Well shit, hello new campaign NPC. Welcome aboard.

>> No.14517978

No, and that is bullshit I tells ya

>> No.14517989

>Numbers are worse than the O-Assassin.
Oh fuck. I don't know that I can -believe- that. I mean... fuck.

>> No.14517998

What do you mean now? I remember an elf vampire from way back in second edition named Jander Sunstar, he eventually got sent to Ravenloft and taught Strahd Von Zarovich how to vampire.

>> No.14518002

It's in the thread I linked, but basically, the O-Assassin is more accurate and more damaging than the Vampire.

Yes. Really.

>> No.14518034

You could also make the +Cha scale better by multiplying it rather than that weaksauce method

Say +Cha/3xCha/5xCha

>> No.14518090

there were a lot of classes that started out crappy and got fixes late in the day. the idea that vampire might not be terribly strong right out of the gate isn't really a big deal. Look how far the invoker came.

even worse, there was some shit that was too strong out of the gate and needed to be nerfed- fuck you, battlerage fighter.

I'd rather see them start weak and be brought up to speed than start buff and beg for the nerf bat.
Besides, its all preview data, and we have no late-tier data, or even magic items built with the class in mind.

>> No.14518127 [DELETED] 

>Vampire class in 4e sucks

>> No.14518152

Fucking sucks. Heroes of Shadow was to be the book that would resurrect my interest in 4e. Fuck that.

>> No.14518185

I like the concept of Heroes of Shadow, but unfortunately it's impossible to do anything related to "Dark" or "Shadow" without sounding like you're 14.

>> No.14521623

Why did this have to suck so much? It's like I'm really looking at 3.5 design

>> No.14521812 [DELETED] 

>Vampiric Slam, Vampire Attack 1
>At-Will * Implement, Shadow
>Standard Action, Melee touch
>Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
>Hit: 1d10 + Dexterity modifier damage, and you push the target 1 square.
>Level 21: 2d10 + Dexterity modifier damage.
>Special: You can use this power as a melee basic attack.

This is it. The metaphorical bottom of the barrel. Damage, push 1, melee basic attack.

Also, the powers alternate between Dexterity-based and Charisma-based, because Wizards of the Coast had failed to learn its lesson from the Player's Handbook 1 warlock. In other words, you absolutely must be of a Dexterity/Charisma race.

Also, vampires apparently use holy symbols as their implements. That and/or ki foci.

Wizards is too hyped up on "VAMPIRE!" to care about the mechanics.

>> No.14521820

This thread isn't just for butthurt, it's for solutions! Give us a solution that we can all agree on.

>> No.14522047

Shitcan the Essentials paradigm for major non-babby releases. Redo all Shadow options as fleshed out classes. Add interestingly effective abilities and features.

Split the Cha and Dex Vampires into separate classes like Knights (Striker) and Lords (Controller) or something. Downplay the vampire tag and just have vampire-like features as part of the Shadow power source's flavor. Instead of reducing Vampire's healing surges to 2, give the vampire's mediocre Striker +damage but let them spend healing surges to make them better than average.

>> No.14522075

>Wah I hate essentials
Something feasible.

>> No.14522103

I'm talking a simple houserule to boost the class with damage, not some sort of legal campaign against the Essentials line and not rewriting the whole damn book.

Seriously, this thread is not for asspained whining.

>> No.14522124

It is perfectly feasible. They can even rename this book to Heroes of the Fallen Noun instead of Heroes of Shadow. Then they can work on the real Heroes of Shadow for the real players that aren't beginners or wizard edition grognards.

>> No.14522135

Yes, well, you write to Wizards and see how that works out. How about a houserule that won't take forever to write and implement, which can be generally agreed upon by the /tg/ 4e community, huh?

>> No.14522143

Play Vampire.

>> No.14522171

So, basically, you came here to bitch instead of help.

>> No.14522201

Since you're so defensive you didn't even bother looking through to see that there was a simple fix, then yes.

>> No.14522225

I thought, maybe, It'd be nice to get more than one or two ideas. Guess that was just expecting too much.

>> No.14522260

You said you wanted a simple houserule. Now you say you wanted more? Make up your mind.

>> No.14522307

You think it's not a good plan to get several ideas to weight them against each other? What? Are you autistic or something?

>> No.14522384

You can't seem to wait more than 30 minutes to collect some ideas before bitching about not getting any. I don't think you're in a position to throw around the A-word.

>> No.14522391

Reading that thread was really disappointing until I got to see the feud unfold. But I wasn't expecting such a civil resolution. Everybody apologized for getting nasty. It's...it's better there, isn't it?

>> No.14522415

Just a little bit. But you can't say "fag"

>> No.14522480

Wait, I thought this was another shitty essentials book?

>> No.14522600


From what I hear it's only partly a shitty Essentials book. I don't know which classes are what though.

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