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[ERROR] No.14389723 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

My Elegan/tg/entlemen. I have a quest for you all. I wish this thread to be filled with Grey Knight art. I will be leaving for one hour. When I get back, if this thread is filled with art and not bitter arguments than the quest will be a success.

Grey Knights Art Dump Thread.

You may begin, thank you brothers.

Sincerely yours,
Nifty.

>> No.14389730

bump

>> No.14389736

http://sttheo.cghub.com/

/thread

>> No.14389740

>>14389723

Is there a version of the OP without the grainy crap obscuring all the detail?

>> No.14389748

>>14389730
I really dislike when artists add Christian crosses to Imperial or GK artwork. It doesn't work that way, fucking heretics.

>> No.14389755

>>14389740
see
>>14389736

>> No.14389756

I doubt it'll last, but what the hell, why not?

>> No.14389767

>>14389748
>mfw that's not a corss

>> No.14389775

>>14389748
Are you talking about the sword on his heraldry?
>>14389740
Like this picture you mean?

>> No.14389777

>>14389767
>Spelling.
>Look at his cheek.
>And yes it is.

>> No.14389791

>>14389748
But the Imperium is basically Medieval Catholics, so it fits.

>> No.14389801

>>14389775
>'Sword.'
Yes, the thinly-veiled cross. Also, on his mask.

>> No.14389802

>> No.14389822

>>14389801
Possibly still a sword. Grey Knights have those everywhere on their gear. Could also be linked to one of their wards.

>> No.14389841

>>14389802
I think I liked our old titan better, or is that classified as a gargantuan?

>> No.14389845

>>14389822
This isn't 'make in-universe excuses' day. It was made by a human artist on earth, who clearly wanted to put a cross in the piece.

>> No.14389849

>>Cross argument
>>When I get back, if this thread is filled with art and not bitter arguments than the quest will be a success.

You have already failed

>> No.14389864

>>14389791

>Implying the Imperium is composed of faux-pacifist Jesus worshipers.

>> No.14389866

>mfw swords are also shaped like crosses
>mfw an order of magical religious space-knights has crosses, which are also swords, on their armor/heraldry
>mfw /tg/ is this fucking stupid

>> No.14389867

>>14389841
Does that gun on its left arm shoot CARS at people? It's fucking huge.

>> No.14389873

>>14389791
The Imperial cult's holy symbol is the aquila, which stands for a much different philosophy than medieval catholicism.

>> No.14389875

>>14389849
Not even 10 posts deleted in and it already happened......yeah, we fail.

Ow well, more Deamonhunter toys to make up for it.

>> No.14389885

>> No.14389890

>>14389748
So do you have an aneurysm whenever you see Black Templar art?

I mean they're basically the teutonic knights in space and they have all those teutonic crosses and shit.

>> No.14389893

>> No.14389899

>>14389866
>>>>>'Swords.'

Artists can thinly veil their silliness any way they like.

GK heraldry is a sword through a book. They have no other heraldry, and certainly not a sword alone.
The blade also customarily has an =I= as the hilt, or...
actually looks like a sword.

>> No.14389904

>> No.14389905

>>14389866

Maybe it should look like a sword then?

>> No.14389911

I'm excited to play this army.

>> No.14389914

So what happens when the guy piloting that gets shot in the head?

>> No.14389918

>>14389899
>>14389905
Come now children, can we get back to the topic at hand?

>> No.14389922

>>14389890
Imperial (iron) crosses are fine. It's just the blatant Christian crosses that are annoying.

There have been ecchlesiarchy temples with steeple-crosses instead of Aquilas quite a bit, too.

It's just irksome that the artist can't separate himself from his own culture enough to do plausible work in another universe.

>> No.14389923

>>14389914
Force fields. Gotta love em.

>> No.14389924

>>14389748
What part of "Catholic Space Nazis" was confusing?

>> No.14389931

>> No.14389933

>>14389924
>Maybe they should add in swastikas.

>> No.14389937

>>14389748
>>14389730
>Draw a silhouette of a sword on a banner
>Herpa derp, why there be Christian cross everywhere?

>> No.14389944

>> No.14389952

>>14389867
By Titan standards it is itty bitty.

>> No.14389959

>>14389937
>All swords look like that. Always.

>> No.14389961

This may be an inquisitor, but screw it, as far as I'm concerned, there is no Grey Knight codex til next week.

>> No.14389978

>>14389952
Oh, look at the itty bitty warlord

>> No.14389987

>>14389959
It looks like that ON THE FUCKING IMAGE IN QUESTION

>> No.14389997

>>14389952

>> No.14390007

>> No.14390016

>>14389987
There is a christian cross on both his mask and hanging from his pauldron in that image. I'm not really sure how you can claim either is a sword. The first is a fucking set of rectangles, the second has a hilt that would stab you in the palm.

>> No.14390018

>> No.14390020

>>14389978
Imperators may be the biggest, but War Hounds are the funnest.

>> No.14390050

>>14390016
Assuming you're still talking about >>14389730, the pouldrum and heraldry are both obviously swords, and the only on his helmet is enlongated enough to be one as well, or was there one I missed?

Either way, more art.

>> No.14390053

>>14390016
There is a cross on his helmet, but that thing on his pauldron is a sword.
There is so much Catholic themed shit in 40k, that I'll forgive authors if they let some Catholic iconography seep into things that related to Inquisitors.

>> No.14390057

>>14389922

Man, I don't know if it went way over your head or something, but the Imperium is SUPPOSED to contain heavy elements of medieval Catholicism. The Teutonic Kni- sorry, "Black Templars" aren't exactly subtle. Nor is the gothic architecture, the Ecchlesiarchy basically being a set of common stereotypes associated with the structure and functions of the Catholic Church in those days, or the Latin, Latin everywhere. It's a grimdark Catholic Nazi space empire and it's supposed to be as unsubtle and campy as it sounds. The artist isn't unable to separate himself from his own culture. Imperial motifs are BUILT on medieval European culture. Seriously, aren't you being a little touchy here?

>>14389914

The Grey Knights weep. Alternatively, Mat Ward descends from the heavens and retcons it so that Grey Knights have psychic force fields that give them 2+ rerollable Invulnerable saves as long as they continue to uphold the virtues of truth and love and fight for their friends, so that it's even more apparent that the guy is trying to turn 40k into his favourite anime.

>> No.14390072

>>14390020
No arguments on that. I'm still a bit partial to warlords though. who doesn't like a walking fortress that can level most of a hive by itself, and that's without the vortex missiles.

>> No.14390079

>>14390057
>>14390053
>>14390016

IS THERE HERESY AFOOT?!

WHO DOES NOT VENERATE THE GOD-EMPEROR?

WHO YET FALLS UNDER THE SWAY OF HEATHEN CULTS?

>> No.14390088

fun with our hirelings

>> No.14390089

He is covered in bones and red stuff.
I guess that means there is most of a Sister of Battle in this image also.

>> No.14390095

>>14390088

>> No.14390114

>> No.14390115

>>14390057
>>14390053

The point is not what it was based on, the point is that the artist fails to be true to the universe.

It's simply annoying.
I wouldn't like the Hammer and Sickle to find its way into Tau art, either.

>> No.14390129

>>14390115
Don't give the powers that be ideas

>> No.14390137

>>14389866
>yfw swords were around way before the crucifix was invented as a method of execution by the Roman Empire.

>> No.14390145

>>14390114
Why is there a fucking Christian cross on his left shoulder? This is bullshit and doesn't belong in 40k.

>Amidoinitright?

>> No.14390154

NO

SHUT UP, YOU RETARDS

WE'RE NOT ARGUING THIS. IT'S LITERALLY A FUCKING SWORD ON THE GREY KNIGHT.

>>14389730
LOOK AT THIS. IT TAPERS TO A POINT AT THE END. IT'S A FUCKING SWORD. THIS IS THE MOST UNNECESSARY ARGUMENT WE'VE HAD AND THAT IS SAYING SOMETHING

>> No.14390156

>> No.14390159

>>14390145

>> No.14390172

>>14390145
Swords look different: they have a blade, a guard, and a hilt. The blade looks blade-like, the hilt looks like you can hold it, and the guard looks like someone bothered to make it sturdy.

>> No.14390182

Actually a power armored Inquisitor, but close enough.

>> No.14390200

This Grandmaster keeps popping up.

>> No.14390204

>>14390172
Yeah, and crosses look different than that image on the shoulder of >>14389730
Crosses don't end in points.
But swords do. Almost as though it is a drawing of a sword because Grey Knights like to have sword icons on their shoulders.

>> No.14390209

>>14390154

Thinly-veiled crosses are still crosses. It's clear the artist wanted to add his own religion to 40k.

>> No.14390215

>>14390200
>>14389775
They photoshopped one of those into the other. You can't see his feet in the one in which he is with the other knights.

>> No.14390230

>>14390204
>Six of twelve crosses disagree.

>> No.14390241

>>14390230
Actually, only one ends in a point. The other ones end in a spade. Even the one that ends in a point (the cross of Santiago) is flared outwards, unlike a straight, pointed sword.

>> No.14390246

>>14390209
You guys really aren't going to drop this, are you? Give it a rest already. You aren't convincing anyone.

>> No.14390260

I never realized that /tg/ was composed of anti-religious conspiracy theorists who look for hidden Catholic symbols in obviously medieval Catholic-themed drawings.
Anyways, here is one of my favorite 40k pics.

>> No.14390261

>>14390209
>>14390209

It looks more like a book with a sword on the front... possibly a reference to the Liber Daemonicus?

If I remember correctly, the cover of that book does have a sword on it. (Obviously the real copy is in the ceramite case on his breastplate, but he could have a copy of the cover on his heraldry.)

>> No.14390263

>>14390209

>> No.14390268

>>14390241
You may need to expand the picture to see the diagonal pointy-bits.
Also. Only one pointed motif invalidates your entire claim.
That is a cross on his shoulder.
>UNLESS CROSS NUMBER TWO IS ACTUALLY A DAGGER?!

>> No.14390276

>>14390209

40k and Fantasy are both meant to be paper-thin parodies of real-world elements. Is an author who uses a German phrase or two in relation to the Fantasy Empire "adding his own nationality to the game"? No. It's fucking high fantasy Germany. The language they speak is called fucking Reikspiel. They're Germans with magic. The Imperium are fascist Catholics in space. Just because you didn't like it when mommy and daddy made you go to church as a kid doesn't mean that this is any less true.

>> No.14390278

Guys. There've been crosses in Warhammer and 40k since the beginning. Earlier stuff the iron cross looking deal was as big for the Empire as skulls were, and while that's been reduced there's no reason an artist couldn't look at an old picture of an Empire knight and think 'okay add this stuff to this space marine'.

>> No.14390294

>>14390204
>>14390246

>Gray Knights official icon is a sword with a flared blade on a open book.
>Icon on the Gray Knight armor is a black silhouette sword with a flared blade on a classic Red and White GK personnal Heraldry

mfw some retards thinks it's a cross. Even Jesus is ashamed of you.

>> No.14390299

>>14390260
By the Emperor, 2 deamonhosts?!?!?!?!

Kill it with fire!

>> No.14390309

>>14390276

As has been said, what it is based on is irrelevant.

Hammer and Sickle Tau would be equally annoying.

>> No.14390311

What a minute, this Primarch is a least partially angel themed.
Christians believe in angels.
Therefore this is Christian propaganda.
Get your religion out of my Holy Inquisitors using their faith to withstand demonic influence and root out unorthodox thought fantasy game, Christians.

>> No.14390314

>>14389933
There used to be descriptions of armor having fylfot crosses.

>> No.14390324

>>14390209
>GUYS THERE ARE ANGELS IN 40K TOO, THEY'RE JUST SNEAKING IN /SUBTLE/ RELIGIOUS METAPHORS LEFT AND RIGHT

>> No.14390326

>ITT: Christian apologists and one valid point at:
>>14390115

>> No.14390334

rolled 3, 6 = 9

>>14390299
look like Arco-Flagellants to me bro

>> No.14390337

>>14389922
The crosses the black templars use are BLATANTLY inspired by or even DIRECT COPIES of the Teutonic Cross.

>> No.14390345

>>14390324
>>14390311

Very many faiths have winged 'celestial' beings.

>> No.14390360

>>14390299
That, or thought-criminals that were tortured into giving false confessions and then executed with fire.
It could go either way.

I can only hope that /tg/ is sensible enough not to call Catholic bullshit on this guy's hat. Yeah, it is Catholic themed. Because the ecclesiarchy IS Catholic themed.

>> No.14390365

>I am an atheist and what is this

>> No.14390377

>>14390334
I see 2....maybe 3 acro's on the leftm but I think those two hanging on the posts are deamonhosts.....or living torches(wouldn't suprise me).

>> No.14390378

Okay, guys? Let's just stop for a second and remember some iconic pieces of wargear right from the codicies: things with names like "Rosarius" and "Iron Halo" and "The Book of Saint Lucius," or hell, "X of Saint Y" in fucking general. Things with names like "The Holy Orb of Antioch." Is a particular theme taking shape in anyone's mind? Is the Space Catholicism not apparent enough?

>> No.14390381

>>14390334
I think he's talking about the two guys on fire back there. And I don't think they're Daemonhosts. They loo like two guys on fire to me. Except the one on the right has horns. So he's a guy with horns who's on fire.

>> No.14390383

Longswords were never used during war. Soldiers much preferred polearms and maces.
The longsword was largely ceremonial, and designed specifically to look like a cross.

Just so you know.

>> No.14390386

>>14390334
Look at the two guys in the upper part of the pic. The ones who are one fire.
The woman with here eyes torn out is my favorite of the bunch. She doesn't even give a shit.

>> No.14390392

>>14390360
Note the lack of christian crosses in your picture. Because that is not the symbol of Imperial faith. That artist could actually draw plausible work.

>> No.14390397

>>14390383
>The longsword was largely ceremonial, and designed specifically to look like a cross.
Why are you so filled with bullshit?

>> No.14390404

Newfags don't know bout suspension of disbelief.

>>14390345
Really? I can't think of any off the top of my head, except for pegasus and Mercury's shoes.

more angels because I like posting screenshots

>> No.14390413

ITT : Retards who complains about fluff they don't know about.

Seriously.

>> No.14390414

>>14390383
Lets not do this idiotic derail again, mmmkay?

>> No.14390422

>>14390397
Because I'm not, and you're a retard?

>> No.14390425

>>14390326

Apologists. In a context where we are arguing that Christian themes are obviously present in a tyrannical fascist empire responsible for endless acts of genocide and the deaths of trillions. I do not think you know what an "apologist" is. Let me say it again so you don't miss it - we're pointing out the borrowed Christian elements in a horrifically evil empire. Do you understand what I'm getting at here yet?

>> No.14390426

>>14390404
>"suspension of disbelief"

You mean that popular excuse for authors to write shit?

>> No.14390437

>>14390425
>Evil.
Is it wrong to survive in a demon-filled world?

>> No.14390441

>>14390392
Look at the staff the guy with the hat is holding.
Also the staff with the banner on it behind him. Both are crosses.
And the Sister of Battle statue head behind them has a fleur de lis on it. God damned Catholic symbolism everywhere in that. You should write a letter to GW complaining about it.

Another Ecclesiarcy pic. I can only find one cross in it: the right-most banner. Try not to get too butthurt over its presence.

>> No.14390451

>>14390422

Then you'll have no trouble proving it, of course.

>> No.14390457

>>14390425
See, you think that the posters are 'atheist trolls'-- when in fact they're just annoyed at poor art direction.

>> No.14390459

>>14390383
>>14390383

Bullshit. Both German and Italian schools taught longsword use as a primary weapon for knights.

Sigmund Ringeck's fechtbuch, for example.

>> No.14390464

>>14390386
>>14390381
>>14390377
>mfw I saw them in the fires

>> No.14390467

>>14390426
Sure, why not?
A pilot in Double Eagle worshiped the Emperor as an Eagle who defended humanity from a great serpent. I'll just pretend that any time I see a cross it's an allusion to crucifying heretics on them. It fits the theme and has nice, clean lines opposed to the chaos symbols.

>> No.14390473

>>14390437

Not the point I was going for, but is it "surviving" when your default response to any difference in opinion is "Kill the nearest ally and his entire planet"?

>> No.14390475

>>14390404
>Really? I can't think of any off the top of my head
Interestingly enough, all of our drawings of angels are of Babalonian divine beings and not of Christian angels as described in the Bible.
Pic related: an ophanim or 'throne' angel as described in the Bible. The Bible didn't actually say there was a fetus in the middle though. Ignore that part of the drawing.

>> No.14390494

Nothing else need be said.

Goodnight /tg/

>> No.14390496

>>14390441
You mean the brazier and the fleur de lys? Those are not crosses. Crossed pieces of metal are not obvious iconic symbolism.

In your new picture, there are a BUNCH of crosses on steeples in the right.
That *is* annoying.
Where are the Aquilas? The sod?

>> No.14390497

>>14390383
Source on this claim, please.
I've read a lot on medieval swords and I've never read that they were intentionally cross shaped or ceremonial.
It is true that polearms and bows were the main battlefield weapons.

>> No.14390506

I am proud.

>> No.14390513

>>14390475
Damn, I actually knew that the biblical angels were horrifying eldritch monstrosities from space, I just assumed the "people with wings" thing was added because it was more relatable.
>themoreyouknow.jpeg

>> No.14390519

>>14390496
>In your new picture, there are a BUNCH of crosses on steeples in the right.
Huh. I didn't notice that. That is genuinely out of place.
They should be aquilas or rosettes, I'll give you that.

>> No.14390527

>>14390459
>>14390459

Also Fiore dei Liberi's Italian manuscript.

>> No.14390530

>>14390457

I think they're trolls, yeah. I don't especially care what it is they believe in. Don't lower me to your level, please.

Regarding "poor art direction," I'm dismissing that claim as moronic because the WHOLE POINT of the Imperium is that it is overwhelmingly centered on medieval Catholic motifs. "Templars," fleur de lys, hey, maybe the fact that the Ecchlisiarchal higher-ups are titled "Cardinal" means something too! Seriously. Including stylized crosses in 40k artwork is like, as I said earlier, throwing out a German phrase in the Empire army book in Fantasy. They're fucking MAGIC GERMANS, IT MAKES SENSE. SO DOES THIS.

>> No.14390534

>>14390496
Official art. You mad?
>>14390513
The Dominions in the Second Sphere are said to look like that, 'cept they wield orbs of light.

>> No.14390568

>>14390513
Yeah, I really don't get why pagan drawing conventions are used for Christian angels.
Pic related, ancient Babalonian carving.

>> No.14390571

>>14390513

You think the fucking eye-wheels are scary? The cherubim are supposed to have somewhere between two and eighty-some-odd wings and one head with four faces - those of a man, a lion, a bull and something that isn't mentioned in any text, presumably because it's fucking Cthulhu. When Gainax did Evangelion, their ideas for angels were probably closer than ours are. And that is scary.

>> No.14390587

>>14390571
Yes it is.
Man, lion, OX (not bull), and eagle.

>> No.14390594

>>14390568
Christians should have used that guy's beard as simples of divine power instead of his wings, I am far more impressed by it.

>> No.14390595

>>14390530
>Maybe the Tau should use the hammer and sickle as their symbol. Maybe every faction should devolve into a cliche caricature of all the things they are based on.
>The Emperor is now a sand-worm with an Atreides crest.
>Navigators are now floating fish-men with blue eyes.

>> No.14390606

>>14390534

Official art does not mean 'good' art.

After all, the Illuminati are official and canon.

>> No.14390607

>>14390595
>Navigators are now floating fish-men with blue eyes.
Yes, your point being?

>> No.14390610

>>14390606
So?

>> No.14390612

>>14390496

Okay, okay, let me switch gears for a tick - what the fuck is up with your obsession with crosses in particular? You're wilfully ignoring innumerable Christian motifs to create this fantastic world where putting one particular Christian motif in 40k is somehow out of context. I really would like to know what you have against crosses, especially considering they're used in 40k too. You know what a Space Marine Chaplain's rosarius comes in the shape of? You guessed it.

Chaplains wearing crosses. Who would have guessed.

>> No.14390613

>>14390607
>Implying my point wasn't that his point was shit.

>> No.14390616

>>14389775
>>14389723
>>14390200
Cannot. Stand. That. Artist.
Proportions are impossible. Poses are sluggish, armor designs completely unworkable. You can't possibly look at that guy and say 'yeah, he'd move fast enough to survive in a gunfight'. It's everything I've hated about 40k since the Ultramarines stopped being blue-yellow and started being blue-gold. LOOK BLING HURPS.
It can be done right, but it takes far more stylization.
The famous Crimson Fist marine has the BLING YEH, and the sluggish pose, and the wacky proportions, but it's all kept reasonable and his armor looks workable.

>> No.14390620

>>14390613
But... that's what Navigators ARE.

>> No.14390629

>>14390606

And whether you think it's good or not doesn't make it any less canononical that Catholicism is the overarcing theme of the Imperium, thereby rendering any argument that Catholic imagery is "out of place" simply... wrong.

>> No.14390633

>>14390571
This pic needs more wings and eyes.
But it is correct in that the Bible says that they have the body of a bull.

>> No.14390638

>>14390612
That is an 'iron cross', and is not unique to Christianity.

>> No.14390646

>>14390616
It's all part of the initiation! The finally test of a Space Marine Scout is to get trashed with whoever survived from his original squad, sneak into the first company barracks and go Termie Tipping. Who ever tips and gets back out with a minimal amount of storm bolter fire in their ass gets promoted.

>> No.14390647

Here is a seraph.
Not exactly a pretty man with wings.

>> No.14390657

>>14390629

Christian imagery is out of place, because the Imperium is not Christian.

It's that simple. The crucifix has no meaning to Imperial citizens, thus placing it atop ecclesiarchy steeples is fucking silly.

>> No.14390668

>>14390657
so uh has anyone mentioned the fact that the emperor was jesus

>> No.14390669

>>14390647
They are described as being human-like.
Its just that they are also naked and on fire.

>> No.14390683

>>14390668
Do not imply that The Emperor was a coward. Tread lightly.

>> No.14390696

>>14390669
And have six wings that they cover their faces and legs with, because otherwise you'd explode when you looked upon them.

>> No.14390701

Has anyone ever considered there are crosses atop the Ecclesiarchal Cathedrals, so they can, ya know, CRUCIFY PEOPLE? Just saying. It would make sense.

>> No.14390704

>> No.14390711

>>14390629
Certain elements of Catholicism make up the basis for the Imperium. It is certainly not a Christian Catholic empire, though, and has as much basis in Ancient Roman culture and Muad'dib's Qizarate.

>> No.14390712

>>14390519
>>14390496
Huih, Thought those were banner-holders with the banners torn down

>> No.14390715

>>14390701
Well, the Imperium isn't against crucifixion.

>> No.14390719

>>14390701
Why would they let a heretic off so softly?

>> No.14390728

>>14390719
They usually add fire.

>> No.14390732

>>14390712
>Keep telling yourself that.

>> No.14390742

>>14390719
I'm sure that there would be fire involved somewhere in that.
This is still the Ecclesiarchy, after all.

>> No.14390745

>>14390657
See, you're wrong, because the Imperium commonly crucifies people as the Romans did. The crucifix is a threat, to submit or suffer, not a symbol of martyrdom.

See particularly: Early 3rd edition, when men were men and 40k's fanaticism was more killing and less gold. Tons of art of heretic-on-a-stick.

Now apart from that, the cross you see in art is probably just as representational as the latin you see in the text. The Imperium does not speak latin. They speak a future language we couldn't begin to understand because it's 40,000 years away. Nor do they really have gothic architecture or medieval European clothing. It's allegorical.

>> No.14390751

>>14390732
Why would I?

I saw your point.

>> No.14390754

>>14390701
>mfw when I said that
>>14390467

>> No.14390755

>>14390745
Especially a compact cross like that could be excused as a representation of a crosshairs, because the Imperium worships killing stuff.

>> No.14390765

>>14390745
No, they may not speak Latin, but the buildings DO actually look that way.

>> No.14390770

>>14390745
>Nor do they really have gothic architecture or medieval European clothing.
Yes, they do. The language you are right about, but they totally do.

>> No.14390773

>> No.14390783

>>14390745
You're really going to need to prove those claims.

Especially the crucifix being used as a symbol of punishment in 40k. Because. It's not in any book or codex.

And why would they put them on the highest points of a church, where The Emperor's holy Aquila belongs?

And further, where is this (official) art of 40k Roman-style crucifixions?

>> No.14390796

>>14390638

Oh. Okay. It's a cross, but it's a type of cross that doesn't restrict your right to whine about Christian symbolism. Right.

You know, the Christians use equilateral crosses too. Anything termed a "crux" bore four equal-length arms. Hell, take a look at the Maltese cross, symbol of the Knights Hospitaler and compare it to the symbol on the Black Templar pauldrons and tabards. Seeing any common ground? They're the same damn cross. The Christian branches have used dozens of cross symbols throughout their history and 40k uses several of the more common ones ALL THE TIME. That "Iron Cross" you think is generic? Not so much. The Iron Cross used as a German military award in the WWII era was based directly on the cross used as the symbol of the Knights Templar. Christian symbol. Again.

tl;dr, every other Christian cross I can think of is used regularly in 40k. Why is your ass so pained over the use of this one?

>> No.14390817

>>14390783
Not a claim so much as extrapolation.
There are depictions of crucified heretics. A lot of them.

As to the allegory, see the designer's notes for Rogue Trader (1st Ed, not RPG).

>> No.14390821

>>14390783
You are aware that crosses were used as a torture/execution device LONG before Jesus was even born, right? Why is it so hard to believe it would retain its original use?

After all, it is simple, horrific, and low-cost. Logic dictates that a brutal society like the Imperium would make use of it.

>> No.14390826

>> No.14390829

>>14390783
Not even really so much roman-style as 'hundreds of crosses with distended, charred corpses on them, with signs reading "HERETIC" and screaming priests'.
3rd Edition rulebook is what I'm thinking of...

>> No.14390832

>>14390783
Hey buddy, ever look at how they lock someone to a penitent engine? >>14390715 have an example, it's on me.

As for why they are steeple-top, notice the MUCH BIGGER CHURCH right next to the one with the crosses?

Maybe that's the main church and the one with the crosses is the "Chapel of Penance"? or some other suitably grimdark side-building?

>> No.14390838

>>14390745
This is a sad sad example of yet another person fan-ficing 40k and passing it off as accurate. The buildings really do look like that. It isn't an 'allegorical symbol'. The symbol of the state cult is the Aquila, all the pictures are supposedly as-is.

>> No.14390857

"ORCRISTUS" is a sword, so no one jump on this for having 'cristus' in it.
But there are a few thematically appropriate crosses elsewhere.

>> No.14390863

>>14390817
>>14390821
>>14390829
>>14390832

You're all just making it up as you go, with no evidence whatsoever.

>> No.14390869

>>14390817
>As to the allegory, see the designer's notes for Rogue Trader (1st Ed
Isn't that terribly out of date?

>> No.14390878

>>14390796
>Claiming the equilateral cross is a Christian symbol.

Really?

>> No.14390881

>>14390863
This anon:
>>14390829
told you to go look in the 3rd edition rulebook. That is his source.

>> No.14390882

>>14390838
The imagery we're given is all we have, so it's the most accurate, but it fundamentally is not accurate because 40,000 years from now isn't 1,000 years ago.

Rick Priestly says so in the design notes for 1st edition. At the time, they didn't include descriptions of 'heads up displays' and so on, because they wanted the setting to feel as primitive and archaic to us as it would to its inhabitants.

"...the Age of the Imperium lies more than forty thousand years in the future - at a stage when those heads-up displays and computers are about as innovative as stone circles."

I love all the imagery. It's great and it looks great and I wouldn't change it. It is how 40k should look, but it is true that it isn't what 40k "really" looks like.

>> No.14390889

>>14390857
I certainly will jump on that piece of fan-art for being utter faggotry.

>> No.14390905

>>14390881
>Provides no image or page number. Cites one out of date book.
You're joking, right?

>> No.14390920

>>14390821
Actually the "Cross" as we know it, wasn't what Jesus was crucified on. He was put on something more akin to a capital T, as it would be impossible to raise the cross with him attached to it without killing him, and that nailing him to it while it is standing is neigh impossible as in anyone (save for pacifist Jesus) would simply resist being held against a wooden bar and nailed in place. The Roman crucifex was a simple beam sticking out of the ground with a 'cross' beam that the victim would be nailed to, and then led up to the cross and have his feet nailed in place after standing so that he wouldn't die of sudden trauma and the death would be far more agonizing. The "t" cross we see in medievil european art-work and christian artwork is derived from a crucifex used not on criminals but on mass executions. Where suffiering isn't the key point, but doing it effeciently.

>> No.14390925

>>14390882
You're literally attempting to state that "my fan-fiction is true because one author of the first edition of 40k said that his book wasn't exactly comprehensive."

>> No.14390929

>>14390889
Why? The astartes are viewed as divine beings by many Imperials. A big statue of one in a church makes sense.

>> No.14390935

>>14390905
Warhammer 40,000, 3rd edition, paperback.
See page 97 for heretic-on-a-stick, though not a cross. See 109 for shouty inquisitor in front of a field of heretics on sticks and crosses over a pile of skulls. 118 for a priest in front of tall, actually Roman-style crucifixes with people on them. 133 for a cross on a peak outside a fortified city.

That's two minutes of flipping through. Some of the art is still used today.

>> No.14390950

>>14390920
I'll hazard a Layman's guess and say that they probably went with the "t" crosses in the paintings so there was room for that "INRI" label to be put on.

>> No.14390954

>>14390882
That only means that they didn't describe HUDs because using a HUD would be trivial and second-nature to a Space Marine. And that it was irrelevant to the mechanics, and detrimental to the feel of the game to spend time detailing it.

That doesn't mean they don't use HUDs, it just means the author didn't want to describe it at the time.

AKA-- Nothing in there says "this is all a big illusionary allegory, and nothing is really what we describe!"

>> No.14390957

This is one badass lighter. Custom job though, so you can't just go out and buy one.

>> No.14390961

>>14390929

The fan-art faggotry is the fact that he isn't a Space Marine, he's a heretic cultist in power armor.

>> No.14390962

>>14390950
Or because it played into the artwork and portrayed a martyr, not a criminal. The "T" would have had him in an agonizing stance rather than his martyred wounded self.

>> No.14390970

>>14390878

"The"? Are you attempting to suggest there's only one? I said "the Christians use equilateral crosses too" and listed a few specific examples, including the one in the image. Try to keep up. The Christians didn't invent the concept of an equilateral cross, but they sure as hell invented a lot of stylized equilateral crosses to use as symbols.

>> No.14390982

>>14390935
>How about you give us an up-to-date book or maybe any pictures at all?

>> No.14390991

>> No.14390994

>>14390878
>Ignoring the whole fucking post

Really? fucking... really?

>> No.14390998

>>14390962
Ah, that makes sense!

Also, symbolism changes over time, so I've no idea why it is so hard to fathom that maybe cruxes (like, I don't know, the CRUX Terminatus) and crosses are used to symbolize *something* in Imperial society, seeing as they are fairly generic shapes? No one's bitching about how everything is covered in skulls instead of double-headed eagles, so what is wrong with a cross or two?

>> No.14391000

>>14390970
You're implying that the equilateral cross is a Christian symbol, and therefore every presence of it in 40k is a reference to Christianity.

That is not true.

Also, if you understood English well enough, you would realize the term "the" refers to a family of designs. Like "the circle" or "the triangle."

>> No.14391005

>>14390982
>implying 40k's canon has hierarchy, which directors of IP have specifically stated it not to have.
>implying I feel like scanning that many pages past midnight.
>implying I give two shits.

>> No.14391022

>>14391005
Then your point is invalid as you have no evidence. Due to laziness or nonexistence; next time, just don't post.

>> No.14391023

>>14391000
>"the" idiot who wrote that post.

>> No.14391024

>> No.14391039

/tg/: Fucking Retarded.
I'm sorry, OP, I really am.
Damn you guys, just damn.

>> No.14391041

>>14391022
Just because you don't have the 3e rulebook, doesn't mean you're right, fucko. You're not important enough for anyone to care.
Cry some more.

>> No.14391042

>>14391022
I gave you a book with specific page numbers, describing the illustrations I intended to indicate for added clarity. That's what evidence is. Feel free to keep bawling from your baby-chair to be spoon-fed, but at this point I find it funnier than offensive.

>> No.14391044

>> No.14391060

>>14391041
>>14391042
Saying "oh yeah, just go read this book, it's all in there" is not evidence.

And it certainly doesn't indicate that the crucifix is used as a 'symbol of punishment' in the Imperium.

>> No.14391069

>>14390998
Yup. I'm surprised no one is complaining that Grey Knights incoperate geometric paterns into their personal heraldry. And for the record, the Black TEMPLARS are based intirely off of the crusades of old and the jet black cross they use can mean either the crusade cross. Infact they're based so heavily off of the Knights Templar that they happen to have some templar history as fluff. Our history and symbolism is incorperated BECAUSE this is a world invented by human writers. Writers add symbolism. And the "Cross" that ignited this whole thing, is actually a sword. The picture is nice but the artist probably didn't point it enough for people to get that.

>> No.14391073

>>14391060
>Failed high school English because he never learned to indicate sources like a grownup?

>> No.14391074

>>14391000

Again, I point to the particular examples I named and the image I posted. You're claiming I'm asserting that all instances of equilateral crosses are Christian symbols. I assure you, I meant no such thing. But then, you already know that. What you're doing is nothing but a poor avoidance tactic. I still haven't heard precisely why crosses used in Christian symbolism are out of place in 40k - after all, no-one's yet addressed the fact that the Maltese cross is worn by the Black Templars, or the fact that the Iron Cross used as a reference for the rosarius isn't a generic symbol, but one adapted from the Knights Templar. Christian crosses, in 40k. Misdirect if you want to, but these points stand. There are Christian crosses used blatantly in 40k. Canononically. Fact.

>> No.14391081

>>14391069

Doesn't matter what it's based on. It matters that the artist stay true to the setting.

Hammer and Sickle Tau would be just as annoying.

>> No.14391107

>>14391081
That is the setting though. It's a sword. Poorly finished, but a sword non-the-less. That's part of the Grey Knight heraldry. And even if it is a cross, there's not much you can do about it. You either have to take it up with the artist or prefer to think of it as a mistake rather than an intentional cross to fuck with your head. I'm just as bad as all of you now, as I've been dragged into a troll.

>> No.14391124

Someone, somewhere, is pic related right now.

>> No.14391141

>>14391124

Credit where credit is due, that was one of the more impressive derails I've seen lately.

>> No.14391143

>>14391107
I think he's referring to the Black Templars being based entirely on the Knights Templar. The Crusade theme fits the 40k setting.
Of course, so does nailing heretics to 2x4s till their lungs collapse, but people seem to forget that getting crucified wasn't something you set out to do.

>> No.14391146

>>14391074
>Still implying that the equilateral crosses in 40k are Christian symbols.

Just look up the pre-templar origin of those. Really.

Also:
>Adapted from.
Your own words. They tend to mean "changed."

Further, and most importantly, such a cross in modern times is not identified with Christianity.
It is much more reminiscent of an imperial German military.

>> No.14391170

>>14391146
>It is much more reminiscent of an imperial German military.
Definitely.

>> No.14391186

>When I get back, if this thread is filled with art and not bitter arguments than the quest will be a success.

>> No.14391195

>>14391186
I dumped quite a bit off good art in it.
So it has both.

>> No.14391207

>>14391107

We've not set out to 'do something about it.'
Simply to state that it is somewhat annoying that artists do such things, rather than staying true to the setting.

The practice is garnering so much defense simply because in this case, the icon is one of a popular religion.
If there was a piece of Tau art with hammers and sickles everywhere, it would likely receive similar criticism, and a less staunch "it's a sword"ing.

>> No.14391221

>>14391186
One image later, the quest failed and the shitstorm began.

>> No.14391240

Quest failed, I am disappoint.

>> No.14391296

>>14391207
>I really dislike when artists add East Asian philosophical symbols to Eldar art. It doesn't work that way, fucking mon'keighs.

Honestly, how is a cross not "true to the setting?" We've established that crosses do not solely belong to Christianity, that they were originally used as execution devices for enemies of the state, and that the medieval Catholic institutions (the Imperium is the Medieval Times in space, after all) were brutal, blunt, and violent things.
Hell, you might as well be annoyed that anyone from Krieg is depicted with WW1 French and German uniforms, since the planet has no connection to France or Germany, and probably doesn't have photos from 40k years ago laying around, and doesn't stick to the setting (medieval fantasy in space).

>> No.14391299

>>14391296
Forgot the pic.

>> No.14391383

>>14390982
Buddy books don't go out of date until DIRECTLY contradicted, especially not the art.

>> No.14391432

>>14391296

'True to the setting' means using canonical symbolism in the art.
If the yin-yang is in the canon a symbol in the Eldar faith, sure, use it.
The Aquila is certainly not exclusive to 40k.

Non-canonical symbols employed in the art due to a perceived similarity is not 'true to the setting.'
Eldar using bow-and-arrow symbols would not be 'true', no matter how much they *are* Elves.
Tau using the mentioned Hammer and Sickle symbols would not be 'true', despite them being flagrant communists.

>> No.14391701

>>14391432
And crosses are canonical symbols in Imperial art. As shown in the various official works posted in this thread.
>Behold, my mighty Crotch Cross!

>> No.14393452

>>14391146
>>14391146

You do realize that crosses have a pre-Christian origin, too, right?

>> No.14393468

>>14389730
>>14389730


IT'S A FUCKING SWORD. THE MARK ON THE HELMET IS ON MY GREY KNIGHT TERMINATOR THAT IS SITTING RIGHT BESIDE ME. IT'S CANON. SHUT UP ABOUT STUPID SHIT.

>> No.14393690

>>14389978
why is it laughing?

>> No.14396630

nice stuff here

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