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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.14218777 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>> No.14218791


>> No.14218793

>most awesomest faction
>not orkds

>> No.14218796

Space Marines are a class. The race is Imperium of Man. Compromise has been reached. This comic is old. Good day.

>> No.14218809

Or god forbid a female gamer conform to the setting they want to play as and play as a manly man.

I'm just as deeply insulted that space marines aren't anorexic, long haired recluses with a need for glasses. The discrimination is hurtful and I have rights.

>> No.14221442

Considering it's suspect at best if you can play a female in any faction I think the comic still has a point.
Of all factions only two would have females, Imperium, who have been all but confirmed as being sausage only, and Eldar who haven't even been seen yet and are still all but confirmed as being sausage only.

>> No.14221466


Being an expert on girl gamer psychology, they're upset that they aren't shy bishounen, either. Well, okay, the Dark Angels are, but still.

>> No.14221478

Eh. I didn't laugh, but it's not particularly odious either.

I have no strong feelings one way or another about this comic.

>> No.14221502

Who gives a fuck?

>> No.14221514

Maximum Trolling Option: Create female space marines, but give them strength penalties for a boost in fellowship.

>> No.14221518


>> No.14221529

Even better option: female marines get the SAME strength bonuses as male marines, even when not in their armor (removing armor is a female-character only option), and they're smaller and skinnier than Guardsmen characters.

>> No.14221531

Pic related?

>> No.14221543

>Eldar ... all but confirmed as being sausage only.
But the whole point of the Eldar in 40k video games is to be the girly faction.
In the fluff there are male farseers. But you wouldn't think that by playing the games.

>> No.14221563

I hate web comics about nerdy gamers. They always look hip and are smug faggots. The women gamers always look like a nerd fetish too.

I just cant get over it, sorry.

>> No.14221567

1) Add Sisters of Battle in the game
2) Female demographic that doesn't know about 40k hard on for Spess Muhriness enjoy the pretty dresses
3) ????????????????????????
4) Crisis averted


1) Spess Mehreens are male only
2) Farseers are female only. And healers.

>> No.14221576

no, you're not getting the point: He was suggesting a way to troll both male and female players.

>> No.14221589


>> No.14221633

>The women gamers always look like a nerd fetish too.
Of course, how else would a nerd conceive a girl that isn't a ham beast and is into nerdy things to draw?

>> No.14221635


SoBs really aren't analogous. They're a fetish race for dudes, not chickmarines.

>> No.14221649

I honestly would not care if Farseers were female only.
I'd play them anyway, because I like them.

>> No.14221665

Sisters have been ruled out already.
They do not 'Thematically fit'. Their exact words.

When asked if females would appear at all in the game they paused before straight out changing the topic. Bare this in mind after they had already spent most of the time saying 'No Comment' to almost everything else.

I want to be proven wrong but this was first hand what I heard.

>> No.14221669



>> No.14221678

Marines also don't get knocked out by overweight priests.

That's why people would rather have female marines

Didn't the game designers say that the Sisters wouldn't fit the theme of the game?

>> No.14221686

Except they are female space marines.

Space Marines = Battle BROTHERS

SISTERS of battle.

Get it?

>> No.14221694

>They do not 'Thematically fit'. Their exact words.
>Inquisitors confirmed

I cannot believe this bullshit.

>> No.14221696

How do Sisters not fit the theme of a 40k game?

>> No.14221697

So maybe ya'll can clear something up for me that I've never understood about the imperial guard.

I was under the impression that the guard had as many chicks as it had dudes. I mean, look at Cadia, everyone serves in the army regardless of gender because tits don't stop you from pointing a lasgun at someone.

And yet, I'm hard pressed to think of any female guardsmen.

The only other "factions" I can think of that don't care about gender are the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Inquisition, the Tau, the Necron, and the Tyranids.

You know, if they throw the nid angle as raising a "pet" nid to become a formidable destroyer of worlds, that might work... Or maybe that's sexist...

>> No.14221711

Hard-pressed to think of female Guardsmen?


Never read the comics or the novels?

Or seen the models?

>> No.14221712


I don't get this comic, what is it trying to communicate?

>> No.14221714

>has to play a character that is their gender

thats fucking dumb, its like saying you can only play humans.

>> No.14221728

What's more retarded is telling others they're not allowed to want to play their own gender.

>> No.14221733


Women in WH40k's Imperial Guard are like black people in Star Wars. They exist, they're often important where they do, but you don't see them too often.

>> No.14221734


Very few planets tithe men only.

The Imperium doesn't care.

>> No.14221745


Over half the races in 40k are either all men or implyed male.

>> No.14221749

That's why all girls play nids: they're the most genderless faction, so it won't label them either as girly cunts or as male-wannabees.

>> No.14221750

Save for the fact that Sisters are worse than Marines at everything.

>> No.14221756


There are probably grrl power House Escher regiments too.

>> No.14221757

Yeah if only the space Marines were based on percentage of people.

>> No.14221762

>be a girl
>play assassin's creed (1 and 2)
>get angry because no female avatars
>play every modern war-type fps ever
>get angry because no female avatars
>red dead
>et fucking cetera

Must be really hard being a woman, having to play as good-looking men all the time

>> No.14221763


>> No.14221766

Honestly, I kind of agree with the comic in some senses.

And personally I've NEVER seen what was so wrong with female Space Marines. I agree with the fact that they don't exist simply because it's in the fluff and that's the way it is... sure, yes, can't fault that.

But I mean I don't understand the WHY of making it like that, or why so many people are so adamant about not seeing it change. Worse crimes and bigger changes have occured in the fluff (way bigger changes). Is gender really that much of an issue for some people?

Pic not intended to cause rage (it's the cover to one of the Starcraft comics Blizzard released about the War Pigs) but perhaps it will help illustrate my point. I don't see why this is a bad thing, but I'm almost certain someone will use the argument "Well hurr durr you wouldn't be able to tell anyway".

Sure. And originally you couldn't tell Samus Aran was actually a woman. In spite of that she's pretty popular.

>> No.14221767

> All flamers all day e'ery day

>> No.14221769


Most girls I know play male characters to avoid harassment, and I play females fairly often.

Shit, Sisters are my favorite 40k faction. It's too bad GW hates them.

>> No.14221770

tau, eldar, dark eldar, and imperial guard are both co-ed in their force organization,

>> No.14221776

>Over half the races in 40k are either all men or implyed male.
Orks: not male. Sexless.
Tyranids: not male. Sexless.
Daemons and cultists: not all male.
Eldar: not all male
Necrons: not male. Sexless.
Imperial Guard: not all male

Try again.

>> No.14221781

Most regiments recruit men only if they can help it, I think. Even the Tanith 1st which has some of the more famous female guardsmen in the fluff only has them because they were drafted from a city that was utterly destroyed.

Cadia probably does have a higher percentage of women serving but you never see any models because it's cheaper for GW to just crank out the same male models over and over.

There are women in the guard, all female regiments are canon, but they're still far outnumbered by the number of men in the IG

>> No.14221783

I don't think that was the right image macro for that situation kid.

>> No.14221789

>Orks: not male. Sexless.
Let's be honest: Orks technically don't have any genders, but they do act like a bunch of soccer hooligans, the majority of which are males.

>> No.14221791

A lot of the girls I know prefer those male protagonists.

But the point stands, it's nice when the choice is there. I don't get why people get badmouthed for playing FemShep instead of ManShep for instance. Sends the wrong message.

We should welcome the opportunity to have extra options, even if we opt not to use them.

>> No.14221793




>> No.14221797

Sure, orks might be called genderless, but they can piss on things and call each other Da Boyz.

>> No.14221799

>Orks: not male. Sexless.

Might be biological wise but gender wise(in the social sense) they are defintiley male. So are most the Crons. Though that could be implied.

>> No.14221802

Not as good as Salamanders

>> No.14221806

What logical fallacies?

What handwaving? I mean, really?

What did I say to make you so angry?

It's just my fucking opinion.

>> No.14221811

Girl gamers LIKE being someone's fetish.
When WoW was in beta, the female models of Horde races were appropriately ugly, and it was the female playtesters who complained about it.

>> No.14221813

Samus Aran doesn't look like a retarded bald ape though. Like she would, if she were a Space Marine.

>> No.14221818

>I don't think that was the right image macro for that situation kid.
It is, if you don't understand that.. you're probably below average intelligence and there's not much I can do about that.

>> No.14221819

You're completely retarded aren't you? That's like saying banana being sucked on by a women with clear focus on her lips going around it and saying "Not meant to be sexual".

>> No.14221823


Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of blessed boltgun shots going through terminator armour and people punching tanks hard enough to make them explode.

>> No.14221827

Female space marines would be indistinguishable from the males.

What with the bald and the huge roid muscles. It's not exactly a "girly" faction.

>> No.14221830

Their exact words, no explanation on what that meant and questions on what it meant were ignored.

So either Vigil thinks Sisters; don't fit the theme of 40k, which is crap.
Don't fit the theme of the game (Warp storm enshrouding system abates and Imperium go back in to reclaim it once again), which is crap as Sisters would be part of the first wave of troops.
Don't fit the 'theme' of racial balance not being as big a tank as marines, not as big a support as psykers/inquisition. This starts to hold water, Sisters would be tank-lite buffing themselves with faith to do more damage or soak more damage.
But that is working on the assumption that this will follow the same 'rock-scissor-paper' combat mechanic employed by every other MMORPG in existance (Which Vigil seems to want to really make us believe they are not doing, wanting to be unique) which then brings up why no Sisters then, they WOULD be pretty fucking unique considering GW themselves don't even want them around anymore.

>> No.14221833


That's because a cron with tits would be fucking stupid.

>> No.14221839

Of course. All space marines look that way.

>> No.14221842

It was fine in Warhammer online. Its really not as big of a deal that people make it out to be.

Although a female marauder would have been awesome.

>> No.14221848

>Don't fit the 'theme' of racial balance not being as big a tank as marines, not as big a support as psykers/inquisition. This starts to hold water, Sisters would be tank-lite buffing themselves with faith to do more damage or soak more damage.


>> No.14221850

My personal guess is that Vigil doesn't want to attract negative publicity for a group of gals with guns in sexified armour.

Which is pretty ironic, given Korean mmo lolage.

>> No.14221851

>And originally you couldn't tell Samus Aran was actually a woman. In spite of that she's pretty popular.

I actually have no idea what point you're trying to make with that statement. What is this, '86 again? You find out it's a chick at the end of the first game. Sooner if you read something like Nintendo Power. The cat's been out of the bag on that one for so long, it's a moot point to even mention the bag.

>> No.14221863


I alsways figured them to be, in an MMO, the burst version of a space marine. While a marine can do a lot of damage over time, the Sister does a little less normally/have a bit less health and armour with sudden bursts of huge damage/invunrability than marines can't do.

>> No.14221865

>Implying the blood angels look as beautiful as his primarch, a being who was born in a much more complex and well done process

>> No.14221866


Let's rephrase that as masculine?

Orks: Bulging muscles and bravado: Masculine
Tyranids: Brutal but Lithe: Neutral
Daemons and Cultists: Sexy and wild: Masculine
Eldar: Sylvan, but proud: Neutral
Necrons: Powerful and Ambiguous: Masculine
Imperial Guard: Brass Balls, discipline: Masculine

>> No.14221867

>You're completely retarded aren't you? That's like saying banana being sucked on by a women with clear focus on her lips going around it and saying "Not meant to be sexual".
Not that poster but you're not very bright at all, and you're trying to force analogies to mislead others into believing your incorrect statements.

Tyranids, Necrons and Orks are sexless. If you dispute this you are uneducated or troll.

You can try to argue Orks have a "male gender", necrons and tyranids are still genderless, though you could try to say Necrons lean a little towards the masculine side in the case of Lords in the video games. For their voices.

Otherwise they are skeletons, skeletons are not male or female.

>> No.14221878

You mean you were serious?

Fine, let's get going:
>will use the argument "Well hurr durr you wouldn't be able to tell anyway".
handwaving. Would you really be able to tell?

>And originally you couldn't tell Samus Aran was actually a woman. In spite of that she's pretty popular.
Now that we all know that she's a bombshell, we all have a hard-on for her, that's how it works.

Now, something else: Space marines are not actual super-soldiers in space. They are super-knights in space, and except for that Joan of Arc stuff, knights are all male.

Sisters are nuns, nuns are female
marines are monks, monks are male.
messing up with this would mess up with the very core idea behind GW marines and make them akin tho the pic you've posted. Generic super-soldiers

>> No.14221883

There's nothing stopping them from playing a Space Marine. They just have to be male. I really don't see what the problem there is.

I mean no one would complain about not being able to play a male Sister of Battle.

>> No.14221885

Look at dem roid muscles

I mean holy shit if he flexed I fear he might accidentally kill the servitor next to him.

How does he even fit through the goddamn archway?

>> No.14221898

I think Space Marines are twice the size they used to be in the older art

>> No.14221901


>> No.14221904

>Implying women don't like sexy women as avatars

>> No.14221907

>I mean no one would complain about not being able to play a male Sister of Battle.

That's because no one cares about Sisters

>> No.14221910

It's not a fucking moot point because that was the whole point of the big reveal.

Samus was referred to gender neutrally in the fucking instruction manual because it was meant to be a surprise.

It doesn't matter that it was '86.

The armor was gender neutral.

Whoa, the protagonist's a girl!

Cool. And the gaming world didn't fall apart.

Now you can't tell me it's a bad idea just because you can't tell it's a girl on SIGHT. That shit doesn't matter, at all.

Look at Tex from Red vs. Blue.

Or any of the female Spartans in Halo.

Basically, the point is there are many popular game series' that don't hyper sexualize women in power armor and it still works reasonably well. You don't have to fit someone into a power armor corset ala SOB's for it to be hip.

>> No.14221911

How the fuck could you even do inquisitors? They better be one of those classes that you have to have already reached a certain level to make, because Inquisitors are supposed to be HIGH RANKING.

>> No.14221914

Honestly, I like this scale for marines the best.

>> No.14221917

Thinking and being able to prove it aren't the same thing.

>> No.14221931

yes, that's funny and sexy and everything, but I won't field it.

>> No.14221936


Don't march that argument out there because really, people could give a lesser shit.

Female Space Marines would > Sisters of Battle

WERE female Space Marines an option I highly doubt Sisters would have any players, other than the mouth-breathers that think power armor needs tits and want their miniatures to be "hot".

>> No.14221941

I actually think the Nightbringer would look cooler with breasts.

>> No.14221947

And now we see the futility of it all. Even if the characters are gender-neutral, the concept of war is inherently phallic. Everywhere you look there's something penetrating something else.

>> No.14221949


There is no scale there dumbfuck. He could be the size of a planet.

>> No.14221951

Just going by the art

>> No.14221954


However, Space Marines live in 40kland, were they are breed in a ritualized manner. They are all males because it's on their religion, their way of breeding new marines, the Emperor's method.

You will also find several characters in the same universe that share several traits with the Spess Mehreens and are female, like the Sisters of Silence and the Sisters of Battle.

Is this so hard to understand/deal with?

>> No.14221970

If you really want your character to be all kawaii and beautiful, etc. Play an Eldar... If you can.
Basically nothing is confirmed except space marines, chaos space marines, and vehicles.

>> No.14221973

Roy from Blade Runner?

Pic related. Sanguinius is all man.

>> No.14221975

Other orky things

-Man-like voices
-Male terms (Boy, Git, Nob)
-Iconic Ork animals: Bulls, Boars,

>> No.14221980

Okay, first, I don't know why you're saying this
>handwaving. Would you really be able to tell?
Because that wasn't the point.

Whenever someone brings this up there's often several people that go out of their way to say "Why bother, you wouldn't be able to tell anyway" when that's not a solid leg to stand on for NOT doing it. THAT was my point.
>Now that we all know that she's a bombshell, we all have a hard-on for her, that's how it works.
Maybe you feel that way, but whatever. I'm not going to argue what gets your motor running online.
>They are super-knights in space, and except for that Joan of Arc stuff, knights are all male.
A shitty argument that is fundamentally wrong.

There was at least ONE well known female knightly MILITANT (allowed to bear arms) order known to have fought off a Saracen attack in Spain. Members of the order were so revered they were granted the same rights as men when in council.

Beyond that, ever since Le Morte de Arthur you've seen female knights in the myths -as well-, as penned by those authors that made the whole romantic notion of knightly chivalry popular in the first place.

>> No.14221989

Someone has been hitting the women's study courses a little to hard.
Or, is trying to troll us.

>Why are missiles shaped like dicks? Answer me that, men.
>Because a vulva shaped one wouldn't fly.

>> No.14221993

Because Warhammer 40k is the only setting with an all male, power armored elite infantry force.

>> No.14222003

>The armor was gender neutral.

The armor was a smudge of pixels. Look at any current samus suit and tell me that's a gender neutral design with the fucking car hood in place of tits.

>Look at Tex from Red vs. Blue.

A female voice dubbed over a halo spartan.
[spoilers don't work here] Tex wasn't a woman. Just a man's memory of a woman. You fell in love with a lie.

>> No.14222006

The double-bitted axe was called a "labrys" because it resembled a labia.

Every time you smash someone's skull with your massive barbarian axe, you are killing them with a vagina.

>> No.14222015

right, let's say I was wrong upon those details.

Still, in the contemporary collective unconscious, a female knight is freaky. Not necessarily in a negative sense, but still, it is just weird. So would be a female marine.

>> No.14222021

Funny how they had cover art letting you know what the protagonist looked like.

>> No.14222024

Double bitted axes were never historically used in warfare.

>> No.14222029

And yup, this is feminine as hell.

>> No.14222033

Sure is fucking rage. Obv. you can tell how large he is by comparing his head to what we can see of his body.

>> No.14222037

>Look at any current samus suit and tell me that's a gender neutral design with the fucking car hood in place of tits
>Armor has real wide shoulders, real narrow hips
>Yep, looks feminine to me

>> No.14222039

They've been historically used in tabletop games.

Which is what we're discussing here.

Don't know if you noticed or anything.

I mean there wasn't a tip off when I said
>Every time you smash someone's skull with your massive barbarian axe
and not Attila the Hun or anything.

>> No.14222040

>You will also find several characters in the same universe that share several traits with the Spess Mehreens and are female, like the Sisters of Silence and the Sisters of Battle.

That's a bit like saying "Sorry you can't drive this super awesome Ferrari, but here's a cheap and cheerful hatchback which hasn't been serviced for about 12 years.

>> No.14222045

Sisters of Silence have been shown to tear pre-heresy dreadnaught shells apart with their bare hands.

They're so powerful they're more comparable to the Custodes than to Space Marines.

>> No.14222055

>>In the fluff there are male farseers. But you wouldn't think that by playing the games.

in the fluff there are females in the imperial guard. But you wouldn't think that by playing the games.

>> No.14222059

I'm trolling, but if the Necrons being "powerful" in a way that doesn't imvolve upper body strength is a masculine trait, maybe there's no way to avoid masculinity in a military-focused setting.

>> No.14222064


Ding ding ding.

Someone's hit the nail on the head.

>> No.14222069

>in the contemporary collective unconscious, a female knight is freak
What fucking collective unconscious is this?

I've seen at least dozen fucking movies (nevermind cartoons and comics and fantasy art and other shit) where it's generally okay if a woman is a knight, and nobody experiences personal bouts of rage or whatever unless they're ESPECIALLY into the idea that it's "fundamentally wrong".

And you're kind of losing sight of what platform you're arguing on.


Fantasy, in space.

It's like you just suddenly decided to say "Hey guys, you know what looks wrong to me? Cathedrals with legs and green humanoid apes with miniguns."

>> No.14222078

The whole point of Samus is that she's a reverse-trap, dude.

>> No.14222086

>>that think power armor needs tits and want their miniatures to be "hot".

So, GW then?

Because face it, they are the ones designing the miniatures, they are the ones deciding it's appearance. If the Sisters were given different armour without the boobs then people WOULD STILL FUCKING PLAY THEM!
The ONLY group here that ever decided females had to be fucking sexy here was GAMES WORKSHOP!

You can stop with the mouth-breather comments here because they are almost entirely Marine players.
The few times I have seen Sisters of Battle players I have never meet a single neck-bearded mouth-breather.

>>not being able to play a male Sister of Battle.
Would if they had any one playing them.
Thing is, they need an army, plastics and a codex that doesn't tell you on the first fucking page not to collect them before they can even hope of attracting any sort of following.

GW can't work out cause and effect so none of this has yet come to pass.

>> No.14222088

>>Sisters have been ruled out already.
They do not 'Thematically fit'. Their exact words.

thats sounds pretty bulshitty and bullwinkle

>> No.14222100

Except Sisters of Silence and of Battle are more awesome than Space Marines.

Don't believe me? Sisters of Silence are on par with Custodes, and the Sisters of Battle are regular humans that have crazy "holy" magic that is more pure than Muhrness psykers. They also dress in a very cool way and use a more interesting power armor.

>> No.14222102

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Space Marines being an all male fighting force.

No one can provide a good reason why there should be female Space Marines. Saying there are women physically fit enough to survive the training/surgeries is not a good enough reason.

>> No.14222106

Lots of things in 40k can be easily qualified as "weird".

This didn't stop them from doing it.

What are you using as an argument?

>> No.14222110

Black Temps roll in black, and chant litanies to the Emprah to empower themselves.

Are they cool, too?

>> No.14222118

Yes, but mostly because they are as closer as you can be as a Male sister of battle. Except Sister of Battle power armor is still cooler.

You will never be a Male sister of battle.

>> No.14222140

Reminded me of the SLoM comic

>Chaos, where the warp bleeds into reality
>Time and space are bent and broken
>Unspoken horrors and things unimaginable occur all the time
>Foul Energies twist and fold all matter into abominations
>But no Female Chosen/Marauders, cause that shit just isn't logical

I miss that comic

>> No.14222145

>No one can provide a good reason why there should be female Space Marines
I think it's because it's the same on the other side of the fence. No one can provide a good reason why there SHOULDN'T be female Space Marines, if only because some of the fiction that popularized the whole concept of "Space Marines" before 40k was even out of diapers had them and people liked it just fine.

You know, the director of Aliens had the cast read Starship Troopers as well.

That didn't stop him from having at least three female marines with names AND lines in the movie.

IE, far more iconic and well known IP's have succeeded in larger measure WITH them than 40k has WITHOUT them. It remains a relatively small and unpopular item in the grand scheme of things.

>> No.14222149

Then how come Sisters keep dying and falling to chaos?

>> No.14222162

what are you implying?

>> No.14222166

That comic was hilarious.

Someone should do one where the female chosen/champions of Chaos get retconned (that one in Gortrek and Felix, and Valkia the Bloody in the actual game) fade from existence before the eyes of their enemies because of Age of Reckoning's "visionary retconning".

>> No.14222184

are they all white too?

>> No.14222196

>sausage smugglers


>> No.14222206

The reasoning is the Emperor decided to have an all male force.

There is the reason. It's a damn good reason.

I've got no problem with female guardsmen, adventurers in fantasy games. Hell I've played as female in games before. But Space Marines are fluffed to be all male.

There is the reason. The guy who created Space Marines made it so that only men can become Space Marines. If GW went back and edited that and made the huge retcon that there were female Space Marines...well I'm sure that'd piss off more people than please people.

>> No.14222208


I've rather got a huge problem with this.

Power Armor, as the fiction describes, is a suit of armor that uses robot muscles and what not to move around.

Which means your roided up melon biceps are going to waste because a machine is moving the adamantium suit for you.

And yet we don't see women in power armor ever, really. With the exception of Samus and the X-com games. You'd think developers would be all over that...

Think of your average female in a game about war. She's the stereotypical bad ass, because nothing else would make any sense. She has to be strong to keep up with the guys, etc. But the power armor should be the equalizer in the same way that mecha suits are; anyone with the proper training can handle them, so you could display an entire range of characters, not just females.

We see some of that in games like Half Life or Dead Space, where doods who would normally be weak scientists are made powerful by their armor. The same mechanic should work for a girl too. In fact, you could replace Isaac Clarke with an Isabella Clarke and tell a more compelling story for it, since then stomping all those baby zombies would hold more symbolism and etc.

But now I've veered far too heavily into /v/ and not /tg/. My apologies.

>> No.14222219

hurr no.

Mobile Infantry are stated to come from all over the world.

Wow I just responded to a guy using a troll face picture. The fuck is wrong with me.

>> No.14222222

You know what REALLY killed me was going onto the forums and seeing teenage kids arguing about how they shouldn't exist because Warhammer Fantasy was all about grimdark and female warriors weren't grimdark and if people didn't like the grimdark they could go to a brighthappy setting where shit like that flies.

It wasn't REALISTIC and GRIM and EVIL enough oh shit who's this Valkia the Bloody?


... holy shit, there was the same amount of stupid-ass rage from mouthbreathers on Guilty Gear forums when Justice was revealed to be a woman. One guy actually said "you can't be a cool endboss and be a woman, pick one or the other".

Even better where the people saying "it's a recent retcon so I choose to ignore it". WHY is there SO MUCH BUTTHURT over fucking GENDER?

>> No.14222228

Space Marines aren't (despite their name) just Space Marines, they are bio enginerid men. There are bio enginered women that are even stronger than then, but for some reason the Empra decided to make the generic and shitty mass produced versions all male when he did the rituals.

It has to do with the Imperium stagnant state with religious dogma for why the only people who mutate into ugly-as-sin super soldiers are men.

Again, want female space marines? Check Sisters of Battle. They do everthing they do except look overall cooler and have holy magic.

The only reason they aren't popular as shit on the tabletop is because GW is retarded and refuses to update them.

Compare to Dark Eldar, who always looked derpy as shit and with a remale look boss. Sisters of Battle ALREADY look cool as shit. They just need to make a new codex, some plastic Sisters and WHAM, new SoB players everywhere.

>> No.14222236

The Primarchs used to be regular Space Marines.

Space Marines used to be hardassed humans in power armor, not supermen.

They used to have flying boogie boards.

Bigger retcons have been made.

>> No.14222250

Other than the Primarch one none of those are as big a retcon.

>> No.14222254

>> stomping all those baby zombies would hold more >>symbolism and etc.
and breaking dishes and killing zombie sandwiches too!!!!
just being sarcastic

>> No.14222270

Cool strawman, bro. I bet you love Overture, too.

>> No.14222281

Yeah, but people don't get that.

You need to understand.

People hear "Space Marine" and they think "Oh, cool, it's like Aliens and Doom only with power armor". Then time goes on and they learn everything else but the initial DRAW is the idea that they're hyper elite military jarheads in space. This is why people initially don't see the reason for the existance of the Imperial Guard as a playable faction. I mean bear with me here, I'm outlining the thought process of a number of noobs I've gotten into the hobby (and if I wasn't into it myself since the fucking early 90's, I could probably remember if I thought the same thing).

Now eventually this might turn them off to Space Marines or it might make them appreciate the unique way in which the setting works even more, but you still have a faction that gets pushed as the "face" of the game by the people making the game themselves.

They get this much screentime and people don't think "Hey, you know, these are barely human spacefaring monks that live, breathe, eat and shit war"... they think "these are military dudes with chainsaws! Wicked! Flashback to E1M1".

The bitterness really sets in once it's realized that that's not how it be, see?

>> No.14222305

I think that the fact that Space Marines used to be what would now be considered "Storm Troopers in better armor" is a pretty big retcon.

Most Space Marine fans would punch you in the face and stomp on your minis if you tried to say that "_____ could beat a Space Marine in a one on one fight" so they'd probably take offense at you claiming it's "not a big deal" that they used to be badass normals and not mini gods of war.

>> No.14222323



You need to provide reasons TO retcon things, it's a practice best avoided.

>> No.14222334

Has anyone considered that:
A) The Astartes are so far removed from Imperial society that their gender roles do not matter
B) By the time you're pumped full of steroids, stuffed full of organs, shaved bald and had your genitals removed, it shouldn't really make a difference?
This argument is stupid layered over stupid; in all probability they're going to sidestep the issue entirely and leave your marine's "gender" unstated.

>> No.14222338

What's Overture?

>> No.14222343

you know, when im reading sexist and racist stuff in 4chan i find it funny and enjoyable, maybe cause you have lots of people posting both, serious and ridiculous bullshit, defending different points of view in equal mesure (more or less) in a place that nobody should take seriously, but when you see all that shit in forums that are suppose to be "serious and mature places, full of respectful and smart people", hell i lose my faith in humanity

>> No.14222359

>Sisters have been ruled out already.
>They do not 'Thematically fit'. Their exact words.

>When asked if females would appear at all in the game they paused before straight out changing the topic.

Well, I was on the fence about this game, but if it's going to be a sausage party, forget it. Enjoy your low server populations.

>> No.14222360

Is it really a strawman when I'm quoting posts I saw almost verbatim?

Believe me I wouldn't feel this indignant if not for the fact that there really was that much Retard spilling through the internet at me. I feel there have been much worse cases of misogyny on the net at large and in places you wouldn't expect than here on /tg/.

I just feel it's sad is all.

Also I never played Overture. I'm assuming it's the shitty 3D one. I have to emphasize the only fighting games I play are 2D, because I am an old fart.

>> No.14222365

>genitals removed

>> No.14222374

S3 T3 problem sisters?

>> No.14222379


Except for the fact power armor isn't all of the strength involved with a marine's body. It merely adds to it. A significant amount, but it's still -adding- to that amount already there. The same power armor with a weaker individual in it would result in a significantly lower maximum output of strength.

There are dozens of factors in the fluff for 40k that support space marines being only men.

One, the process the incredible stressful on the human body. A woman's body is more frail. This is a proven fact. Smaller bone structure, less tolerance for damage. etc. This is not to say all women are frail or should be as frail as they can be. It's just that a woman as strong and as tough as she could possibly be would still be weaker than a man with the same training and toughening up on average.

two, the biological enhancements are typed specifically to men. The genetic material came from a man, was designed to be put into other men (hurr gay joke). It has also degraded and become even less reliable when used in the way it was intended.

Three, the environments that potential space marines grow up in are incredibly dangerous. Death worlds that make climbing mount everest a weekend holiday. Jungles that would make catachan shit themselves. Adverse native species that mix pirahna, with komodo dragons, with candiru and they're amphibian and intelligent like cats.
These environments often breed a culture of stereotypical gender roles mostly out of raw need.

Honestly, female space marines and the people who honestly advocate them are some of the most retarded mary sue whiners I've ever seen in my life.

>> No.14222382

Compare to Dark Eldar, who always looked derpy as shit and with a remale look boss. Sisters of Battle ALREADY look cool as shit. They just need to make a new codex, some plastic Sisters and WHAM, new SoB players everywhere.

In order for people to stop going on about female maries, Sisters would need everything the Marines currently have including 6 codexs, their own movie, a stack of video games, a ton of fluff showing off how different sisters can be, to be in every single starter box, more books than every other army and to never even lose a fight.

>> No.14222388

>>Sisters of Battle ALREADY look cool
after the gk remake they are the only ones with the black templars that still looking grimmdark and gothic enough, i dont know why some people say they dont fit in 40k

>> No.14222393

I'll agree that retconning takes a lot out of a setting, but my argument isn't that they SHOULD retcon it, merely that it's a terrible rule they never should have put into place in the first place.

How should I explain it?

I think things should stay the way they are to preserve some of the integrity of the setting, but at the same time I never saw a good reason for that decision to begin with, and I think they really shot themselves in the foot with it as it is you might note one of the biggest sources of nerdrage and shitstorms online ever.

When something causes THIS much controversy, division and infighting amongst fans, and general herp-de-derp threads like this that never fucking end, it was PROBABLY a poor choice.

So yeah, I wish they hadn't done it in the first place, but since they did, I can only stand by their decision (even if I feel it's a poor one).

I don't know if ANY of that makes sense but that's how I feel about it. I'd very likely disapprove of a retcon more than I do the idea that there aren't any female Space Marines in the first place.

>> No.14222413

THIS. This so much.

People have no idea how much that shit just doesn't fly outside of a board like this.

You put into words EXACTLY how I feel about it. I'm the poster you linked BTW.

>> No.14222445

nope, the only reason why space marines are male is cause gw didnt know shit about genetics and so they did that "geneesed only functions with male cause is a male thing" to justify it

so stop with the bullshittery

>> No.14222450

>People have no idea how much that shit just doesn't fly outside of a board like this.
If you haven't been outside (i.e. not here) yeah, maybe.
Actually, that's probably /tg/ in a nutshell.

>> No.14222462

Godamn PC brigate poisoning everything.

>even estregra

>> No.14222473

Except none of that works when there are Death Worlds where you end up with Amazons tougher than men.

40k doesn't adhere to realism and gender roles aren't necessarily observed. Entire offshoots of the human race sprout up over the priod of mere millenia (Ogryns, ratlings, squats), and as mutated as they are, it's somehow far less likely to see powerful women in Deathworld societies? I think it'd be MORE likely that you'd have less gender dimorphism on those worlds, as both sexes would have to be tougher than nails or DIE.

Women don't know how to kill a sabertooth jungle bat that spits acid using only a kitchen knife? Well they DIE.

That's just how it is, and you actually see something like this in real life. Amongst neolithic cultures (and some aboriginal cultures) dividing the work and hunting more or less evenly amongst men or women or depending on a meritocracy is not entirely non-existant.

And in those cases it isn't some fucked up forced feminist bullshit... it's because being raised in different conditions affects people differently. Lots of studies going on right now to determine if the reason women are so... flimsy in a majority of first world and third world countries is because it was simply bred into them to be as such, because you can see one tribe existing to THIS DAY in fucking South America were the women are as hale and hardy as the men.

And anthropologists are like "What the FUCK" over it. It's great.

>> No.14222477

>nope, the only reason why space marines are male is cause gw didnt know shit about genetics

>> No.14222480

Hey why arent there any female sisters of battle?
I think GW fucked up on that one

>> No.14222487

Actually girls play Tyranids because they lust for alien bug dick.

>> No.14222489

Wrong, they were merely copying the Empra way of doing things.

The Empra had bio enginered women too, but he made them ultra powerful and hard to replicate.

Hence you only see shitty spess muhrines

>> No.14222494

How about this:

There can be female marines.
There can be male SOB.
Female orks.
Female necrons.
50/50 gender ratio for all special characters and models.

>> No.14222500

>Male Sisters of Battle

My body is ready

>> No.14222502

>>THIS DAY in fucking South America were the women are as hale and hardy as the men.
uh? wasnt an african pigmy tribe the ones that have both male and female hunters ? the aka tribe or something?

>> No.14222507

I don't THINK the Emperor bio-engineered the Sisters of Silence... at least it isn't said explicitly. Or it certainly wasn't the same as the primarchs.

You will note that all of them (every one) is a pariah.

That's pretty rare.

So that's probably why he didn't mass produce -them-. Simply because he didn't have the science for figuring out what made them like they are.

>> No.14222509

>And in those cases it isn't some fucked up forced feminist bullshit... it's because being raised in different conditions affects people differently. Lots of studies going on right now to determine if the reason women are so... flimsy in a majority of first world and third world countries is because it was simply bred into them to be as such, because you can see one tribe existing to THIS DAY in fucking South America were the women are as hale and hardy as the men.

Please, contain the umad. It makes you intolerably incoherent.
Also, citation needed.

>> No.14222516

There's one in South America as well that does things more or less the same.

>> No.14222522


Here's the thing. If you're going to create a setting, or an empire that has exclusionary xenophobic practices. That seems misogynistic and cruel. As a whole the imperium of man even in it's golden era was 1950's style gender roles for the most part and still commonly segregates female and male soldiers even amongst common imperial guards.

The fact is that it is completely in line with the theme of the setting itself. It isn't a random exclusionary note meant to snub women. It's a legitimately supported element of the setting that fits in line with the vast majority of everything else.

If I look at a book series that has female only mages, or female only divine warriors. I'm not going to bitch and scream about how it's sexist bullshit men can't be that when the book goes into fucking explicit detail on exactly why men can't.

>> No.14222524

Gender roles in South American indians were clearly enforced bro. Sure, they were chill with females, their culture was all about laid back female to male interactions, but males were expected to hunt shit, and females to grow shit.

>> No.14222539

not the guy you are asking, but i have this from that african aka tribe


>> No.14222552

I don't know about the South American tribe he keeps blabbering about but there IS the Aka Tribe that fits the bill. It's not a 50% divide or anything, but it's a good deal different from the way people view primitive tribes as all treating women like chattel, or women all being weak stay at home types by necessity in less advanced cultures.


>> No.14222567

DLFG is not an accurate depiction of women.

>> No.14222573


>> No.14222574

>That seems misogynistic and cruel. As a whole the imperium of man even in it's golden era was 1950's style gender roles for the most part and still commonly segregates female and male soldiers even amongst common imperial guards.
Everything at this point in your post and onwards is bullshit and conjecture.

Just wanted to point that out.

The Imperium is so equal-opportunity because it's more like Russia in WW2.

>> No.14222580

Oh, the furfags are here.

>> No.14222590


I think the hilarious thing is that the emperor obviously valued all of humanity as soldiers in whatever role they took. Whether it was sisters of battle, space marines, imperial guard it didn't matter. He still had them in his armies regardless of gender. Save for the fact he couldn't make female space marines. Hell, based on some of the horus heresy books he had to welch on a deal with the fucking chaos gods to even figure out how to make the primarchs and the tech behind the marines.

>> No.14222601 [DELETED] 



You mean...!

No, you can't possibly be implying....that men who draw comics....portray them,selves as attractive...and women as attractive in their own opinion?

Oh man, what a fucking legitimate point of contention, you're such a cool guy. You must hate..um...every non-goth form of media, huh?

>> No.14222604

Because GW ignores them so everyone else does also.
However, when they need to show off how powerful a villain is, they won't kill one of the heros, that shit just won't fly.
So, instead, they choose the largely ignored faction to take the fall. The Sisters.
They are similar enough to Marines so when they get the chop it actually looks like the marines are in trouble.
The Author then thinks he did a great service to the fans of the Sisters by name-dropping them and thus keeps it up.
That, or the author fundamentally refuses to understand them as a faction, seeing them as some kind of scourge to the very Imperium and thus makes them out to be just like that (redemption corps, what the FUCK was the author thinking and why the fuck did he get that misrable excuse for toilet paper printed.)
This is further compounded by the Sisters having ABSOLUTELY NO CHAMPION on the design team. The only people who wanted to do anything with the Sisters have both left. (This however, may be a good thing, as they will probably get their first ever decent codex now and not opening with a spiel about how you shouldn't play this army)
This has become a problem as with no champion there is no one to defend them and so they are further fucked over.


(Fucking field to fucking long)

>> No.14222614


As for the turn to chaos part?
It is part of the Sisters canon that only one has ever turn to chaos.
This is waving a red flag in front of a bull or telling a child NOT to do something.
They all fucking take that as a fucking challenge.

To further complicate matters, GW does not keep in touch with the player base in any way, shape or form.
Back in 2000 at the UK (I believe) Gamesday they were asked during a QnA segment when the Sisters of Battle would finally receive their codex.
They made a remark about Sisters wouldn't as they had no players at which point they were shocked to discover that EVERYONE wanted a fucking codex for them. They did not sell because everyone was waiting on their new codex and plastics. (Coincidently, ham-handedly forcing the Inquisition into the dex and forgetting the plastics turned out to be a really bad idea. Again, GW failed to realise this because they do not CONSULT THEIR CUSTOMERS.)

>> No.14222621

>male sisters of battle

>> No.14222631

It's nice that someone other than me noticed this.

But you know I don't fault the setting for choosing to do what it did with Space Marines being monogendered. I'm just in awe here because I've never seen a single GOOD argument on why they're not there. The fact is all of the arguments are bullshit. All of them.

None of it matters. None of it makes sense! The only thing that DOES make sense is "The Emperor couldn't get it to work and everyone else thinks it's too heretical to try".

That is IT. That is the only valid reason there and trying to shoehorn your own values or ideas into it is just being a misogynistic prick, even if you're unaware of it.

40k isn't a setting built on guessing games as to why shit is the way it is. It's all in there in the fluff, if you take the time to look. Sometimes, the answer simply isn't that complicated.

>> No.14222641


That woman has a hamster on her head?

>> No.14222644

The girl that writes Hark, A Vagrant draws herself as fat.

>> No.14222654


Then explain to me why in a half dozen imperial guard novels they talk about various npcs commenting on how female guard fighting directly alongside male guard in the same regiment is unusual. That often it's single sex regiments operating amongst their own.

I'm not saying they're valued less. I'm just saying that separated units is supported by the fluff in regards to novels. No, they weren't goto. It's often remarked on as a pleasant surprise when a more progressive angle is taken but it's always portrayed as not the norm.

Also, please, explain how male only space marines aren't supported by fluff. Beyond "how do I into science?". Because scientific realism in a game about mind powers and faster than light travel is paramount right? I mean in the context of the setting, show me the flaws in the statement that the setting's fluff supports male only space marines.

>> No.14222655


You know that if somebody came up with a modified version of the Space Marine process that worked on EVERYBODY, women included, 100% of the time that the inventor would immediately be slain for heresy, and then posthumously sainted for allowing the IoM to field a force of Space Marines the size of an entire IG regiment.

>> No.14222657


The fluff states again and again that the Space Marine process only works on male children going through puberty (11-18).

That's why there are no female space marines.

>> No.14222660

Not all of them.

At least, I don't think so.

>> No.14222661

>>14222334had your genitals removed

Oh shut the fuck up. This has no evidence to support it whatsoever. Marines can fuck, they just don't lust.

>> No.14222673

Exactly. So while it could be possible... while someone out there could potentially accomplish what even the Emprah couldn't (even the Emperor was nearly slain by an Ork Warboss... he was a god, but he was fallible)... they'd be burned at the stake or worse.

And that is... acceptable. That is the setting.

>> No.14222678

Liking males doesn't make you furry. It just makes you gay.

>> No.14222690

All furries are gay.

This is why Russia hates furries but loves Gadget Hackwrench.

>> No.14222691

>You must hate..um...every non-goth form of media, huh?
Look, I'm sorry if you just learned to strawman from /b/. I know it's hard for you to adjust to 4chan's atmosphere. I know it takes a lot of effort to come up with good insults like "testicle twirler" and "colon spelunker" and "straining to reach his uncle's kidneys."
But maybe you should just take a breather and run back to TVTropes' forums--where people aren't allowed to have negative opinions and no one makes fun of you for sounding like a bitchy tween--you can try again in a few days, all right?

>> No.14222694

>Look, when we invented this silly game we didn't think girls would want to play, just the unpopular lads who got bullied in school.

>> No.14222706


Oh yes. Doing that kind of shit is very, very blamworthy and everybody in the research facility would be put to the sword. They'd still use the technology though, once they get in some high-ranking AdMech to spout some bullshit and tweak one aspect of the procedure to make it IoM-AOK.

I have trouble believing that even a bureaucratic nightmare like the IoM would refuse to use a super-soldier program with a 100% success rate, or even as low as a 50% success rate. They'd just have to step up the resource wars to keep up with the demand for Ceramite.

>> No.14222707

>The fluff states again and again that the Space Marine process only works on male children going through puberty (11-18).
The fluff also talks about space marines farting in each other's faces.

>> No.14222710


Have you read that book? Preeetty sure there's a girl trooper.

>> No.14222718

It would not surprise me if that was an actual quote.

Still, no people skills.

Nerds that get bullied in school lust after powerful warrior women. That's why Red Sonja and She-Hulk got so popular against all logic.

>> No.14222723

women don't fart, so clearly, space marines must be men.

>> No.14222733

Well, apparently all my gigs of scat porn is just faked bullshit then, is that what you're saying, faggot?

>> No.14222739

No, but in principle, transgender fetishists are basically furries.
The only difference is when confronted, they'll hide behind someone else's social struggles instead of made-up ones.

>> No.14222742

Yep, just like the snuff. Sorry!

>> No.14222744


women were almost always pilots/ship captains due to somehow being naturally better at it. and they made one dude a chick for the movie, so if you're thinking of Dizzy Flores, that was the movie being retarded.

>> No.14222748

So the thread's gotten to digressive topic trolling now, huh?

>> No.14222752


What would qualify a "good" argument to you. If the answer is "nothing" then perhaps your own personal biases are limiting your ability to accept the situation.

Hey, I'd be totally happy to see busy muscle women stomping ass in power armor. Perhaps more space marines than a few out of the thousands of them would get laid periodically.

Here's the frustrating thing for me. I've seen this happen in other games to some degree. The story of the setting leans one way that may be prejudice, stupid, and speak of the creators own personal flaws. This lean offends some people, a minority, among the fans. Some dislike it, some love it not because they agree with the sentiments presented, but it thematically fits with the other cliches present. So this vocal minority complains and complains. Even threatening to bring legal action. When they could easily PLAY SOMETHING ELSE.

>> No.14222754

Most people wouldn't give a flying ass if they can't be a Female Space Marine.

>> No.14222755

As long as those "powerful warrior women" look like barbies and aren't as good as the men.

>> No.14222756

Most likely because the emperor, whose DNA the primarchs (also male) were based off of, and thus all those genitor glands, was male.

The IG has plenty of females, but they like the tau aren't really shown as when you get to minis scale (or normal infantry in real life when fully equipped) you can't fucking tell the difference if they don't speak, which your little plastic people cannot do. Regiments are often split by gender to avoid having to use command vehicles or commissars as daycares in longer missions, but it happens, and everyone is quite professional within the limits that anyone can be. They're only human after all. But there's less female regiments since its a voluntary army to begin with, the 'tithe' being taken from the PDFs (that tithe part past the PDF is a little less voluntary perhaps).

Eldar are pretty much half and half, and most of them in the videogames are female if they're in charge.

Tau are probably half and half but since they have less defined secondary sexual characteristics no one can fucking tell what with that armor. Although given their breeding scheduling and all that, probably less of a deal is made about any offspring that result from a hop between some planets, so long as it doesn't prevent those that did it from screwing who they've also been assigned to. Does leave you wondering just how strict the 'no intercaste' parts are though, given there has to be SOME intermingling or they'll really split off into entirely different species.

>> No.14222762

>that was the movie being awesome

One thing the movie did was give Rico a much better love interest than Carmen Ibanez, because FUCK CARMEN, HATED CARMEN etc.

When Rico lost Dizzy you could kind of see why he'd be so pissed.

>> No.14222766


>/tg/ - Thread Derailment

>> No.14222770

please tell me that's a real quote. also nope, thats a portion of the nerd population who are into fem-dom. most want the meek princess type. also authors who don't get what the female population wants in a character.

>> No.14222773


>> No.14222775

Oh, I see, hence the Sisters of Chattel!

I mean Battle.

>> No.14222786

Seems like it. My turn I guess

9-11 was an inside job.
Holocaust didn't happen.
My Little Pony is getting canceled.
Kevin J. Anderson is still writing Dune books.

>> No.14222801


No, I made it up. I was looking for a stereotypical british guy, and then just google image'd Rick Priestley instead.


>my face when it's easy to fake a GW quote by throwing in stereotypical Britfagspeak like "lad".

>> No.14222822

Every girl I know prefers Wonder Woman to She-Hulk solely on the basis that Wonder Woman is prettier and isn't as assertive (like, only a handful of authors ever made her out to have some feminist agenda really... original Wonder Woman was essentially a pro-male-dominance BDSM fetish in a four color superhero comic).

She-Hulk gets to be smart, strong, have a GOOD career (successful lawyer), AND be the one in control of her romantic relationships (of which there are many)...

And she's less popular because she's 6'7'' and green.

>> No.14222828

IG gender roles could be seen as the way US and most western countries view women in combat, which is they're not allowed. So majority of the worlds will raise just male only. However there's loads of worlds that the opposite is true that females are the ones in major combat. Then you have the minority which are mixed.

There's very few mixed units because it gets down to, one side or the other overextending themselves because of the opposite gender that he/she has a crush/love affair/marriage too. Then you got the issue of female hygiene, which can make mixed units a hassle.

>> No.14222830

Ok, so to boil this thread down, people at the best of times have a really hazy grasp of GW "lore". To be fair, though, that could probably be excused because GW doesn't really grasp it either.

Nerds are terrified by change. And women. If the reflected masculinity they drew from their super-duper macho tiny hand painted figurines was compromised in any way by the barest mention that some of those toys might possibly be G-G-G-GIRLS they would literally melt into a greasy puddle of spergy rage.

So basically: Jesus nerds are fucking horrid.

>> No.14222846

>And she's less popular because she's 6'7'' and green.
I have the WEIRDEST erection right now.

>> No.14222851

>Every girl I know prefers Wonder Woman to She-Hulk solely on the basis that Wonder Woman is prettier and isn't as assertive
Um, bullshit.

Also, she-hulk is basically (a) a comedy character at this point, (b) "male character but worse". I don't even know any hulk fans.

I do know a ton of girls who read Wonder Woman when a good writer is writing her (Greg Rucka, Gail Simone, etc).

>> No.14222858

>he thinks he's not one

>> No.14222863

>she-hulk is a progressive female character


>> No.14222865

>My experiences with the group of girls I know are different so your experiences must be bullshit.

>> No.14222868


Compared to wonder woman? Yes.

Wonder woman in the cartoon series was pretty fucking awesome though.

>> No.14222874

>He thinks I'm trolling.
You people REALLY don't get outside of your board much, do you?

>> No.14222886

Maybe the girls I know just suck, I don't know, but really I don't see the problem with She-Hulk being a "joke" character. "Joke" characters are the best. Look at Deadpool. She-Hulk has similar powers of 4th wall smashing.

Also I wouldn't class her as "worse" than the Hulk. Not as strong, but she retains her (high) intelligence and is always in Hulk form (Hulk is fairly vulnerable as Bruce Branner, and at the beginning he couldn't control those changes which was a very real handicap).

She-Hulk is more... well-rounded, in other words. She isn't the unstoppable juggernaut that The Incredible Hulk is, but still... She's on par with The Thing while also being smarter than The Thing, basically.

>> No.14222901

The only thing I've heard about she-hulk in years is LOL SHE BANGED JUGGERNAUT LOL.

>> No.14222908

People outside this board don't ramble on about furries and 'fetishists' in their gaming group, they game. I call your bluff that you have a supposed life.

>> No.14222921

I guess you didn't hear about how she took The Thing's place in The Fantastic Four then.

Incidentally she's banged -everybody-.

>> No.14222924

Sorry. I know that once upon a time WW used to be a BDSM queen, but that was...shit. 1930's? 40's? That's like calling batman a hypocrite for using a gun in his first few issues. You just have to get over some things. WW has moved past that and pretty much become an icon over the years

Shulk became a minor meme on /co/ for nailing Juggernaut and getting crap about it from everyone.

>> No.14222936

>I guess you didn't hear about how she took The Thing's place in The Fantastic Four then.
No, I didn't, because nobody's cared about the FF in ages, either.

>Incidentally she's banged -everybody-.
Clearly this is meant to appeal to girls and not to guys.

>> No.14222937

The "sex with Juggernaut" thing isn't actually canon.

>> No.14222947

>Wonder Woman is prettier and isn't as assertive
Do you...has no one you've known ever watched Justice League? Ever?

>> No.14222948

Samefag here.

I'm not saying that She-Hulk can't possibly some really subtle statement about the hazards of becoming an empowered female and taking your sexuality into posession. It's just we're dealing with comic book writers here.

Occam's razor.

>> No.14222949

yeah I agree with that completely, but you got to remember that she hulk was a joke character. aside from the implications about the writers view of women it means female comic fans are gonna be in on the joke as well, she only recently got a serious treatment.

as for wonder woman iirc the author was a feminist theorist his heart was in the right place even if his dick wasn't.

red Sonja is kinda neat as Howard was kinda ahead of his time on the role of women despite his contemporaries

>> No.14222959

I blame the movie.

Anyway, girls like to feel like they're in control of relationships, no matter how wrong they might be. She-Hulk is in control, at all times. She gets to be a horndog because male characters get to be horndogs. It's also reasonably accurate. Higher testosterone = higher sex drive.

>> No.14222964

>>Then you got the issue of female hygiene, which can >>make mixed units a hassle.

menstruating all over the battlefield? what are you? 12?

>> No.14222975

Does this imply that Juggernaut has sex with guys?

>> No.14222976

>Anyway, girls like

>girls like
Yeah, I'm gonna stop you right there, bro.

You shouldn't do that.

>> No.14222983

Wonder woman is unemployed, she just super heroes all day. She's never the brains/tactics of a situation. And she's a man-hating feminist.

I'd say she's a feminist icon alright.

I kid, she is portrayed like this sometimes but she was pretty awesome in the justice league cartoon revamp. They actually gave her emotion and personality for once.

>> No.14222998

>>Higher testosterone = higher sex drive.
female chimpanzees and human nymphos say otherwise

>> No.14223002

Actually, she was originally a bid to secure a copyright.
After that, she was a serious, but minor figure.
Then she got the comic, Howad-the-Duck-like, 4th-wall-breaking treatment.

>> No.14223010

>Wonder woman is unemployed, she just super heroes all day. She's never the brains/tactics of a situation. And she's a man-hating feminist.

...none of this is remotely true.

Shit, my girlfriend shows otherwise.

>> No.14223011

Juggs went through his curious stage. It happens to everyone.

Here he is during his leather daddy period.

>> No.14223027

No, it's true. It's why women own dogs. Now, this sounds crazy but bear with me.

Essentially, even if they can't be properly in charge of their own lives, they want to feel like they're in charge of something, so what better than another living, breathing animal's life? Women use it as a coping mechanism in abusive relationships, single parenthoods, or other situations where their biological make-up's "put them on the rails" so to speak.

This is why so many women desire children and rain affection on babies, so that they can control them and mold them as they see fit. But a lot of the time once the "magic" wears off the interest and investment goes away, and men are left to raise the children in place of a disinterested and flighty mother.

I mean this isn't 100% true as with anything, but the exceptions always prove the rule as you know.

>> No.14223028

Literally nothing in that first few sentence is true.

>> No.14223038

This thread has gotten exponentially worse and worse.
...and I have it all on tape.

>> No.14223040

>Now, this sounds crazy but bear with me.

Yanno. There's a reason why what you just wrote sounds crazy...

>> No.14223047


>>Then you got the issue of female hygiene, which can make mixed units a hassle.

lots of armies are mixed in real life and soldiers dont wake up covered in female menstruation each new morning of service

>> No.14223051

He might say something that might give us paws.

>> No.14223055

Yanno. I bet his cock is either freakishly monumental, or he's packing a gerkin. When you look like that there is never any in-between.

I wonder what the hanky code would be "into enormous, unstoppable mutant cock/watersports"

>> No.14223069

>...none of this is remotely true.
Now you're full of shit.
While I'm sure there's examples of it not being true, every time I've seen her she's never doing anything except being wonder woman. Sure this takes work, but she's still technically unemployed unless she receives a paycheck for it. She always shows more hostility to men than women, much like all the other women on the island she's from. Of course she shows less than they do.

And no, she's never the brains of a battleplan. It's always batman.

Next you want to argue these statements while true then aren't fair then?

>> No.14223078

but most women i know have cats, and men have dogs

you failed sir

>> No.14223082

I thought it's about being on top, but it is worded kinda funny.
/tg/ - 1930's social theory

>> No.14223084

Explain the women with tiny dogs.

>> No.14223089

We also never see her take a shit either. Does that mean she has no anus?

She's a highly skilled diplomat. We never see her as this though, because it's a fucking comic book and nobody cares about high-level diplomatic talks. And don't even get me started on batman.

>> No.14223092

>No, it's true. It's why women
Gonna stop you again, bro.

Stop doing that. If only so you can actually get laid.

>> No.14223101

>She's a highly skilled diplomat. We never see her as this though
Except when we see her doing just that, i.e. when decent writers have her resolve some conflicts with words.

>> No.14223113

>implying that would be enough to get him laid
It's a lost cause, man.

>> No.14223114

"life" was never the implication, Anon. I was saying that you have never been anywhere else on the internet with people on it.
Spend a little time on other forums, artsites, etc. You will find that they rank up nicely on the creepy fucks scale.

>> No.14223127

I'll grant you that, but it happens so rarely it might as well just be considered an exception to the rule.

>> No.14223128

But I've gotten laid.

It was a terrible experience, but still.

Look, I'm speaking of women OBJECTIVELY. You need to understand that right down to the psychology, they're fundamentally different from men. Men, essentially, exist to be in control, and women desire that control.

>> No.14223131

It might, if he looks half-decent.

>> No.14223134

>Comparing plot points that aren't shown to taking a shit live in a children's cartoon.
Your analogy is terrible and completely flawed, but it's pretty much always going to be that way when you try to shoehorn in an incorrect opinion with an unrelated analogy.

Discuss the subject at hand not try to misdirect people.

>> No.14223139

>Look, I'm speaking of women OBJECTIVELY.
Yes, that. STOP it.

You're just getting worse, not stopping! Cut that shit out, dogg, or nobody will ever spend any time around you.

>> No.14223147

explain the men with dogs, shouting stupid words at 2am in the fucking street with their "SIT" and "DO THIS"

>> No.14223149

>she's never the brains of a battleplan
Bitch, WW an the amazons were created by Athena herself.

In case you are too busy studying "real women" to know, Athena's the GODAMN GODDESS OF WARFARE STRATEGY.

Just Nitpicking.

>> No.14223151

>"women are an alien hivemind"
Jesus christ this guy is basically the poster boy for ronery misogynist loser.

>> No.14223153

It's not my fault that the truth bothers you.

Look, we could agree to disagree but it's not going to help you come any closer to understanding. Some things are more important than sex or companionship or friends.

>> No.14223157

You are not a very good troll.

Her comics are not really a "children's cartoon".

Incidentally, I'm saging this shit and you all should too.

>> No.14223158

I am a man. I own a corgi. Your argument is invalid.

>> No.14223163

>I can't differentiate between my terrible personal opinion and actual fact
Man, how are you even still alive then

>> No.14223169

I...what? How was that a flawed analogy? I know you're just going lolitrolu, but the point is they don't add extraneous details to a story that usually boils down to "we punch the bad guy in the dick a whole lot." That's what the audience wants. Nobody cares about a superheroes day job.

And if they do, well...she's a diplomat. That's what she does. There.

>> No.14223171

And yeah, WW does strategy all the time.

Frankly, she's like (Superman + Batman)/2.

>> No.14223174

You don't count, Linkara.

>> No.14223181

>> No.14223186

>Nobody cares about a superheroes day job.
Actually, some shit writer had WW get a day job to "humanize" her.

>> No.14223193

Faggot detected.

>> No.14223194

You desire to be a woman.
I guess all psychologists must be trolls then.
There's a difference between opinion and objective fact.

>> No.14223205

>still at his 0/10 trolling
why do you even bother

>implying faggots aren't male

>> No.14223210

>I guess all psychologists must be trolls then.
Yes, but most of them are much better at it.

>> No.14223221

this is just getting silly

>> No.14223225

well since we're breaking out the shit trolls anyway
>implying they are

>> No.14223230

This thread is fucking terrible. Please let it die.

>> No.14223238

Reporting for shitting up /tg/ with your shit trolling.

>> No.14223248


The one where she works at a taco joint? Yeah, that was pretty stupid.

Superman as Clark Kent, Daily Planet reporter is one thing. He's frequently described as truly being Clark Kent, down-to-earth midwestern raised person, so that makes sense.

Wonder Woman has no need of such an identity. She IS Wonder Woman full time. I just don't get why it's so hard to find writers that can do her character justice.

>> No.14223254

Is it really a troll if I admit that it is and sage while doing it?

And, since you made that post without saging, aren't you worse?

>> No.14223265

>Stupid troll thread.
>Neat, it's turning into actual discussio-
>Oh, no, wait, there it goes.

>> No.14223267

>I...what? How was that a flawed analogy?
You're using an unrelated situation that has whatever tiny similarity to the situation being discussed, and use that as an example to somehow prove your opinion on the original situation.
It doesn't make any god damn sense.

>I know you're just going lolitrolu, but the point is they don't add extraneous details to a story that usually boils down to "we punch the bad guy in the dick a whole lot." That's what the audience wants. Nobody cares about a superheroes day job.
>And if they do, well...she's a diplomat. That's what she does. There.
They manage to show tons of heroes dayjobs just fine, you're saying they can do this for everyone BUT WonderWoman? But this is derailing the original point.

What kind of Diplomat is she? Does she get a paycheck for it? If not my original point about her being "unemployed" stands.

>> No.14223279

hey guys how about
>loli female space marines
>shota male sisters of battle


why isn't anyone complaining about the all-male Fellowship of the Ring in LOTR? I mean isn't that just horribly sexist?

>> No.14223299

>all-male Fellowship of the Ring

>> No.14223303



>> No.14223308

>I just don't get why it's so hard to find writers that can do her character justice.
It's hard to get writers that do female characters well in general, instead of just killing them off for the motivation of the male ones.

>> No.14223309

>All male

>> No.14223317

She's the primary ambassador of Themyscira to the United Nations.

Dude, you're arguing from a position of ignorance and making claims about shit you have just admitted to knowing nothing about.

>> No.14223330

On top of that, she runs shelters and no doubt gets all kinds of income for appearances, use of her image, etc. She's much more employed than most celebrities.

>> No.14223333

Arwen was not part of it and as much as I'd like to have Legolas a female elf, Legolas was a male elf.

So /tg/, why you complaining?

>> No.14223343

Read this thread. Read it real close. Nerdy males don't really 'get' women.

THAT'S the reason.

>> No.14223350

I don't think anyone really holds Tolkien up as a feminist author. Although several women in his books are actually very strong female characters, so I suppose it could be argued either way.

>> No.14223367

Because LotR is so far int he past the author is dead.

>> No.14223376

>She's the primary ambassador of Themyscira to the United Nations.
Okay, does she get paid for this? If not point stands.

>Dude, you're arguing from a position of ignorance and making claims about shit you have just admitted to knowing nothing about.
And in an adult conversation you can have a discussion without being an expert on a subject, hence me asking lots of questions you are free to answer and educate me with.

And I'll quote something I previously said
>I'm sure you can find examples of this being incorrect.
I have been from post 1 discussing Wonder Woman in popular portrayal, namely Justice League.

People that aren't wonder woman fans obviously haven't read

Wonder Woman Series X to know obscure fact X about her daily life.

>> No.14223390

so if we killed off everyone at GW, all-male space marines would finally be okay?

>> No.14223395

Sorry dude, I didn't keep a copy of her check stub. You'll just have to take my word for it.

>> No.14223402

Because it isn't expected from a book written in 1954 to be non-sexist.

Something from 1980 and later, however...

>> No.14223409

Sorry I work for the IRS, your word is not good enough.

>> No.14223411

So basically unless your complete financials are public knowledge, you're penniless and unemployed.

Got it.

>> No.14223427

>Audience knowledge = story Public Knowledge

>> No.14223435

>Being unemployed automatically makes you penniless.

>> No.14223443

You know, as an aside, the current conversation (how much does a fictional superhero ambassador make) is actually somewhat telling about RPG fans as a whole. I.E. if it isn't explicitly spelled out it doesn't exist.
I'm noticing a trend among fans that inference is something to be avoided and derided. Take somewhat ambiguous rules for example.

Is it just me? Am I the only one to see this?

>> No.14223449

Well, then. Have you ever seen Clark Kent get a single check for his work as reporter?


>> No.14223466

They "Thematically fit" as well as the chapter of SPESS MEHREENS they chose.

If it was a chapter other than the Templars I can see them saying Sisters of Battle wouldn't fit due to the close work with XENOS WITCHES on the same side.

But they chose the Templars, the only chapter that may even outclass the sisters in Puritan Zeal.

If he Boys in Black fit, so do the sisters.

>> No.14223498

The difference is Wonder Woman is from a fantasy island with no obvious use of currency or economy.

See above. Stop being such a raging neckbeard because someone accused your beloved waifu of technically being unemployed.

But regardless.
>Have you ever seen Clark Kent get a single check for his work as reporter?
Yes, all the time in his own TV series. Irrelevant because we know about his job in real life. Do you know about being a diplomat to a fantasy island-country in real life? NOPE.

>> No.14223550

"Diplomat from Non-existent Tiny Island Nation" is about as hard a job to imagine as "Reporter for a Non-existent newpaper in a Non-existent American city"

>> No.14223580

The Island was IIRC completely self sufficent with a static population of Immortals that had no way of increasing the population until contact with the outside was resumed (Insert whenever the hell contact resumed I don't really follow DC only the DCAU)

>> No.14223606

not sure i understand all the fuss about the lack of female space marines.

women are smaller and weaker as a gender template. therefore their physical potential as space marines is by default lower than males. when you look at the physical enhancements that go into making a space marine, the muscular gigantism in particular, what would the purpose be in creating smaller, weaker space marines for the sake of gender balance?

and then from the player/gamer/reader perspective, who wants to see a bunch of overly muscled, giant, sexless women mucking about? physical inferiority aside they would be just psycho-indoctrinated as their male counterparts, and they would be sterilized, so there wouldn't really be any difference, tension, conflict, or titillation brought about by the addition of female space marines.

>> No.14223607

>"Diplomat from Non-existent Tiny Island Nation" is about as hard a job to imagine as "Reporter for a Non-existent newpaper in a Non-existent American city"
BULLshit my friend.
While we can't make any assumption on the actual amount he is payed, they constantly make mention of him being paid for his work.

And even if they didn't it's a common job we experience in real life.

Wonderwoman is a diplomat, an already vague job for the common person. Then on top of this, and even more importantly, she's from a country that doesn't even seem to use money or have economy.

>> No.14223630

And the country isn't real for us to call in real life experience.*

>> No.14223708

I don't remember he ever getting a check in that show, but let's roll if it:
How much does Clark Kent earns then?
Do you know that too?

Look, this is getting past amusing, so unless you start saying something inteligent and/or funny, I'll just sit over there and browse others threads on /tg/.

>> No.14223715

>>women are smaller and weaker as a gender template.
And as mentioned earlier in the thread this is only true for humans that have intermixed enough. There are communities on earth where females are as biologically capable as the men.
This in all has had less then ten thousand years (Probably five thousand at most) of evolution.
Now, thirty eight thousand years from now, this will probably not be true.

You want to argue genetics of humans thirty eight thousand years from now? Come on then.

>> No.14223792

Gk still have the Gothic thing going, not as much but they have it.

Dark Angels kinda have it on their vehicles and bikes and such.

More stuff needs it I want my cathedral tanks!

>> No.14223810


women are designed by nature to carry children. their bodies are designed to carry and nurture them. they carry more fat on their bodies because of this. their bone structure is different because of this.

you show me any biological evidence that women in any population, any time in history were, on average, as large or larger than men in that same population and i will eat my computer desk.

nature designed gender dichotomy. it exists. it always has existed. it is expressed differently in different creatures.

even if i was wrong, which i'm not, all my other points are still valid.

no one wants to see giant hulking muscular women changed to the point of androgyny.

>> No.14223824

This thread has covered /tg/
it has covered /v/
it has covered /co/
but that which covers it, is shit.

>> No.14223838

Well no-shit they don't need anything the gods gave them a fucking paradise, possibly they included enough valuable crap to use as a stipend I guess she's just paid enough to get by living outside her home till the Justice League took over housing.

Maybe she wasn't paid?

Why are you arguing this point anyway?

>> No.14223842

poetry on 4chan
Let the verse flow from your heart!

>> No.14223849

*That goes to both sides including myself I guess.

>> No.14223874


All A are B, therefore all B are A. All aboard the logic train!

>> No.14223895

I'm not rereading the entire thread just the find the exact posts that already answered your stupid-arsed statements when you should have already read the fucking thing instead of just jumping in at the end and proving your fucking ignorance about it all.

>> No.14223944

sup guys.

just posting a smaller, weaker, version of a space marine.

gender equality! yay!

>> No.14223959

you are a fucking liberal apologist misandrist nigger.

women are weaker and smaller than men. in real life. and in fiction. the strongest man will always be far and away stronger than the strongest woman.

deal with it you fucking crybaby.

>> No.14223971

And now I guess we're all the way back to -4Str

>> No.14223976


clearly referring to:


>> No.14224027

You Know Big Words!
Now keep it up and you might make sense one of these days.

My evidence is IN THIS VERY THREAD!
Now, are you going to fold like the misogynistic manchild you are or do you want to invoke Goodwin's law next and call it a day?

>> No.14224043


but i'm sure the men are only stronger because of the patriarchy and hegemonic male dominance that teaches girls from a young age that they can't be as strong as boys so they shouldn't even try. so all those female oly lifters focus more on painting their toenails than lifting really heavy.

i'm also sure that in south america that there is some amazonian tribe where the women are super duper strong and have hueg muscles and they live in perfect harmony cuz men and women be the same how kawaii is that !!!!!!

that is how fucking retarded you people are.

>> No.14224067

there is no evidence in this thread. only vague references to some south american tribe. no citations. no links.

you fucking retard. do you eat shit and mistake it for steak? because you sure as hell don't know how to read and comprehend.

>> No.14224083

>no links
Also you could just fucking google them.

>> No.14224118


did you even read that link?

you only prove how stupid you are with each of your posts.

that link had noting to do with biological differences. it focused solely on cultural and anthropological observations about gender roles.

gender roles did not make men bigger and stronger and women smaller and weaker. gender dimorphism did.

you are a consummate idiot.

>> No.14224149

>>i'm also sure that in south america that there is some amazonian tribe where the women are super duper strong and have hueg muscles and they live in perfect harmony cuz men and women be the same how kawaii is that !!!!!!




>> No.14224151

>each of your posts
>the only post I made was pointing out links when you said there were none
>you assume that every person on 4chan is the same person
>I am a consummate idiot

>> No.14224217


saying things does not mean they are true. there are no tribes where women are as strong as men. their bodies are smaller and weaker.

prove me wrong.

you pointed out one link which did not support your argument.

you have no idea how to argue a point. i mistook your for the other fucking idiot on this thread. i'll assume you're related by blood and missing chromosomes.

>> No.14224240


also, 50,000 years is not nearly enough to reduce gender dimorphism through natural selection.

but you know nothing about either. you are a child ranting because you want to have female space marines and think that making up facts somehow supports your wankery.

>> No.14224243

I wasn't making an argument though, just pointing out that you were wrong. I am well aware that men and women are different. This does not immunize you to error.

>> No.14224267


so is it autism? or down syndrome?

>> No.14224268

And yet, in the very Olympic records you cite, while men continue to improve, the gap between male and female performance grows smaller.

>> No.14224300


in the 100 meter dash. female performance will level off.

women are smaller and weaker than men and always will be. this will never change. no matter how hard you masturbate to the fantasy that it will.

>> No.14224358

The fact that you believe something like that will never change, under any circumstances, really just proves you don't understand the science you cling to as your sole hope for feeling "superior".

It also amuses me that you think mastubatory fantasy plays -any- part in this, or that you think you're speaking to only one person. I genuinely feel sorry for you, if you think that the only reason anyone would ever have any interest in such a subject is to sate their -base- fantasies or lusts. In fact, that says more for your personality than anything, to say nothing of your need to resort to such ad hominem to lend weight to your failing argument.

>> No.14224902


By the laws of science I call upon thee! If the environment is a situation where women being stronger than men is the best solution to ensure the reproduction of the species, then they will be.

If the environment above is reversed, men will remain genetically predisposed to being stronger than women.

If it's irrelevant to successful reproduction then it'll likely stay about the same, with random drift amongst individuals, and whatever environmental pressures are upon reproduction will be modified.

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